First Act Break
Insights on finding success in the film industry — by young filmmakers, for young filmmakers. Hosted by USC film directors Jiayang Liu and Richard Li.
First Act Break
How to Find Your Filmmaking Path: Insights from Two USC Film Directors
Welcome to episode 1 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry. Today we talk about how we got into filmmaking, USC film school, and stories from film sets.
they were like you gotta watch it with us and i was like there's no way i'm watching a romance film with you guys right now and he was like crying i was like i felt a tear and i was watching the theater on a school field trip and i was like hiding in the back i was like no no one can see me cry and i was like what they stole my idea and there
SPEAKER_01:was a jump scare in the end and it made everyone scream which
SPEAKER_00:that's
SPEAKER_01:i still have the recording of that learned so much i mean i think the biggest teacher in filmmaking is
SPEAKER_00:and i think that's why you can't take forever on a on a film because
SPEAKER_01:yeah i guess that was for for me just because I think it was clear that I wasn't 100% fit for the role and for the scaled project.
SPEAKER_00:So I mean I always assumed like film sets could be really nice and welcoming and then I stepped on this one film set.
SPEAKER_01:We always have
SPEAKER_00:that one. Oh my god that one film set low-key like I always think back and besides that film set I've never went on a film set that I felt like I didn't belong there you know.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Hey guys welcome to the first episode of the first act break podcast the show where we dive into the art business and hustle of breaking into the film industry today me and Richard will be talking about how we got into film our experiences at USC film school as well as multiple film sets and our first collaborations together hopefully you guys will learn a lot about filmmaking from this podcast enjoy dude oh my god it's the first episode yeah How do you feel? Really
SPEAKER_01:exciting. I'm really excited. I've never done a podcast before, so this is brand new to me and to Jiam. Same. Welcome to the First Act Break Podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, welcome. And I made him wake up at 6 in the morning so we could start the podcast on a sunrise, but the sun never peaked in through the windows, unfortunately. Yeah. Usually it peeks through my window and it's really pretty, but it's okay because we're starting things on the right foot.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. I'm trying to wake up earlier every day. Great. You're jet lagged. And I'm jet lagged, so he's using me to my advantage. Remember
SPEAKER_00:when we said we were going to record an episode at like 6 in the morning? Right now it's 7... 41 So I'm glad we pushed it back an hour or I'd be really tired saying
SPEAKER_01:yeah,
SPEAKER_00:I'm generally a morning person So like, you know, I I feel I feel good Waking up early. That's good. Yeah, dude I mean, I think it keeps your life really in order in a way, you know it's like when you have that routine and you're like I have this set rhythm where you don't even need the alarm clock to wake
SPEAKER_01:up Yeah, exactly. And it's nice to wake up with the song, you know, you feel like you're you're actually going with the rhythm of of nature so that's
SPEAKER_00:true i mean our ancestors did wake up when the sun rose and went to sleep when it got dark so
SPEAKER_01:cell phone alarms or whatever it's just
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:sun's up we're up
SPEAKER_00:so exactly cool i mean so you're in china over the summer yeah you're from china
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:i'm from china so tell me about how you grew up
SPEAKER_01:yeah so i grew up in beijing went to uh public school, same, same one since elementary. And then I was only in middle school for one year before I came here to study abroad. When I first got here, it was a huge cultural shock. I didn't really speak good English. I was barely fluent, but you know, I mean, one, you know, tries to survive in any situation. So you try to adapt, you try to learn. Were you in one of those ESL classes? I was, yeah. Me too, me too, yeah. It's almost, it's been 10 years now. 2015 was when I first came to the US, so.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, I mean, I feel like we have very similar path when it comes to that you know i also went to elementary school in china where i at least just first grade came to the u.s when i was seven and uh that was back in 2011 i think and then started like adapting like you said yeah took the esl class and i just realized how easy the american education system is i mean might not be a good thing or a bad thing i don't know
SPEAKER_01:yeah comparatively i mean there's there's less tests uh it's not as like It's right or wrong, it's this or that.
SPEAKER_00:It's a lot more playing, a lot more creativity. Explorative, yeah. Which I don't know what system is better, but I just feel like I don't regret how I grew up because I felt like I shaped the storyteller I am today. Yeah, I agree. I
SPEAKER_01:have the same, very similar experience of traversing two different cultures and trying to see where you fit and all of that. because of you know politics and whatnot you know it's sometimes it can be tricky but hey I mean it's it's such as you know life and now we live in such a globalized you know world and where everything is we've got the internet and everything so
SPEAKER_00:yeah I mean speaking of that yeah TikTok just got banned last night for me for me at least um people in the region and everyone's going to Red Note yeah it's so interesting to
SPEAKER_01:see that shift because Red Note is a Chinese app and very Chinese yeah and Americans are flying there to see if that can become their next base for you know people who are just using it casually but also people who have businesses or or their primary source of income are from their tiktok accounts and that yeah definitely have a huge effect on on those people and so we're also trying to trying to see how it unfolds but
SPEAKER_00:um i thought it was just so interesting because like right now it's so Chinese cultured right and then it's just the fact that people are protesting this ban by going to this you know Chinese app with Chinese people and it's like for the first time you know like most Americans don't really travel to China or even think about it so like doing that is like the closest thing in a way where it's like they get to see what the real China is for beyond what the media tells them and I think you know really experiencing a culture is Wonderful. You know? Yeah. How do you think, like, going to America, like, kind of shifted or, like, nudged you on the path of filmmaking?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I think it was eighth grade. That's when I sort of first started thinking about filmmaking. I mean, for me, it was always, you know, action and sci-fi movies. I'm sure it was the same for you. For most people, I mean, you go to movies and I think your first impression is like, oh, I'm going to see some cool visuals and effects and, you know. What was your first movie, though? I mean, in my memory, probably Shrek. And then after Shrek, it was middle school, eighth grade. My parents asked me, like, oh, we're trying to see, like, it's Valentine's Day. We're trying to see a romance film. Do you have any recommendations? It's 2016, and La La Land just came out. And I was like, you know what? Just go watch this. Let me know what you think. At that point, I wasn't really that big into film. And they watched it, they loved it. I went back to China Overbreak and they were like, you gotta watch it with us. And I was like, there's no way I'm watching a romance film with you guys right now. And I was not into romance at all. I was very much an action and sci-fi person. So I went into it and it blew me away. It really blew me away to the point where I realized I had a camera of my own and just started shooting stuff.
SPEAKER_00:So La La Land was that movie for you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then it was Arrival, which came out in the same year. And those two movies back to back, plus Interstellar back in 2014. That was when I first realized like, oh, this is not, they don't just simply exist. Like somebody made this, somebody made this happen. And I looked up, like, oh, what's the director? Who made Interstellar? And all that stuff came out. And so I would say it's Interstellar and then La La Land and then Arrival for me. Dude, that's
SPEAKER_00:awesome. Yeah, what about you? I think, dude, the first movie to ever make me cry was Kung Fu Panda 2. It's surprising, but it's like that scene where the young Po was in the village and his family gets like taken away or something like that. And there's a little baby like Po and he was like crying. I was like. I felt a tear and I was watching the theater on a school field trip and I was like hiding in the back. I was like, no, no one can see me cry. I don't cry. But, um, it really hurt. Like I felt that a lot, you know, I really emphasize with this character and I really never have. Um, and it was like such a young age. I was like four years old, four or five. I don't remember. And then I remember after the movie, like almost every time after a movie, I would ask my mom, I'm like, how did they do that? How was that character able to fly in the sky? You know, how are they able to do all these, crazy things every movie and my mom would try to explain to me and I was like I don't think that's how they did it you know and I was just really loving that and I think uh fast forward I think it's also it was 2016 as well when the secret life of pets came out and Before that, like a few months before that, I had these pets of my own, right? I had these geckos, turtles, and I was always just imagining stories in my head of their life on their own. And then I was telling people all these stories I had, and they're like, you know there's a movie called Secret Life of Pets coming out? And I was like, what? They stole my idea. And then I saw the movie, and I was like, I gotta... I gotta make movies myself before they take more of my ideas and make it into movies, right? And I discovered iMovie and just fell in love ever since, you know. So tell me about how, you know, Chinese background influenced how you approach filmmaking.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, that's definitely a huge part of who I am and what I try to, or at least... instinctually try to explore. I mean, identity is one of the biggest theme or biggest idea that we explore in, in film. Um, you know, it's all about how we change, how we not change, um, how we don't change and how, how the people around us and the environment around us shape who we are. So I think there's something integral to being, um, being Chinese studying in the U S and being in this culture, um, that, that, allows me to open up more ideas and more experiences. I think one key part is trying to see the world through different perspectives. And that's also what, what film does is it puts you into the perspective of someone else. So I'm sure it's the same for you as well.
SPEAKER_00:I think, uh, there's always a part of culture, uh, wherever you go, right? Wherever you live, it stays with you forever. Um, you know, I, I lived in China over the first seven years and then I lived in the East Coast for five years and then Wyoming for I think seven years after that and then now LA and I felt like now it's like that everywhere I lived all the culture I experienced throughout you know, impacts all of my film in different ways, you know, very subtle ways, but you can see how the ideologies of different people have played a role in, like, the melting pot inside me, I guess, in a way. So I think it's always nice when you get to travel around and explore. I think that's one of the biggest things when it comes to filmmaking is just, like, being able to see more perspectives. Because, I mean, the best stories are the ones in real life, to be honest. The most... uh interesting the most crazy the most um raw stories are the ones in real life um and that's why my favorite movie is uh ford versus ferrari in a way because it was a true story yeah and it really made me feel something at the end where i'm like wow that is the power of film you know you can tell someone's life and really make an audience feel it even decades after, you know, and I think it's so universal in a way where it's like, no matter where that person comes from, there's a part of humanity in that person. And I think no matter what, you can experience that through film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, film was great for escapism. I mean, it's great for entertainment, but then at the same time, you know, there's, like you said, you know, there's films out there where it hits you at the center of your heart that you never expected and it makes you feel things you didn't think you'd be able to feel or witness characters go through things and realize that you know you're you're kind of like them even you know the villains and whatnot you know you kind of the best stories offer us like an insight into somebody's life who's entirely different than ours, and somehow we're able to see things from their perspective. And I think, ultimately, good movies make us more human, and they make us understand ourselves better. The film critic Roger Ebert said that film is like an empathy machine. It's this medium that helps generate empathy for people. other people's experiences and you know we're all we all have our own individual and exciting lives and experiences that shape who we are and film is this portal that thrusts us into somebody else's life that we also are able to relate to and I think that's great power it but we can go on and on about you know film and whatnot because what we do and whatnot but um
SPEAKER_00:yeah i mean what were some of your you said you really like the action sci-fi genre did you try to make some of those films when you starting out or was that just like a fever dream for later
SPEAKER_01:yeah i think i definitely have my my i definitely tried to do sci-fi a little bit i feel like that's just easier than the action because really action felt like you know you're You have all these crazy sound effects and visuals and fights, and it just felt more tricky than just trying to come up with a cool concept. I don't know, time travel. I've done those back in middle school. But then after that, my first short film was actually horror. Oh, wow. Because, I don't know, something about the language of it really spoke to me because... You can elicit such incredible emotions and reactions from your audience. And I actually played it at my middle school's film festival. And there was a jump scare in the end and it made everyone scream, which I still have the recording of that on my phone. It was about a minute long. It goes from or like two minutes long. It goes from the beginning of the film. where the theater goes quiet and towards the end when the drum skater goes out and everyone just screams and then they clap at the end. That made me feel something I've never felt before. The idea that you can make an audience feel something together in the theater, in a communal space. Yeah, it's been, and that sort of thrusted me onto this journey, so.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, I mean, I remember this one time. I made also, like, a stupid horror film when I was in, like, high school. And I just, there was this really stupid jump scare that I was like, everyone can anticipate, right? But I showed it to this one kid on the school bus on a field trip. And he watched it, and he jumped so hard, bro. Like, I still remember that. Like, I was ready. I was like, okay, he's gonna just see it. I was like, whatever. And he jumped almost out of the seat. He almost fell off the bus. So I'm just like, wow. No matter what, two different people, they see a different film, right? Sometimes to one person, they would just be like, okay, whatever. But to the other person, it's like, wow, that's the greatest thing ever. And that kind of speaks to the subjectivity of film, which is like, you can never try to make something where You just think everyone will like because everyone has different life experiences that shape the way they see film. And everyone sees a different film when they watch it. And that's why I think some of the best films are films that a lot of people don't like, but also a lot of people do like. Or even a strong majority of people that really like it. I don't know I think it's just like yeah it definitely people have different experiences and I remember this also this one time I also played another film in my film class at USC and this kid he jumped and it was really funny like the whole class were laughing but like no one else jumped and it's like some people they they're able to tap into that like story you know in a different way than other people it's like wow like what makes someone jump versus someone else you know is that it's that personal history with whatever, what horror, you know, that affects people. And I think just like making films that are true to you can just always, you get to some people, you know, and I think the journey is to figure out a way to tap deeper into the people you want to touch and also try to broaden it the best you can by, you know, loving, Leveling up your storytelling by learning more about the world and yeah stories um So what tell me about how you got into USC though? I mean, yeah, that's how we met we met at the screening of What's that movie? It's a really good. It's not It's symposium. No, wait, it was a symposium. No, it was a premiere.
SPEAKER_01:No, it was so it was Dead for a dollar dead for a dollar the Western with christophe wallace and willem dafoe yes dude i was at a dga uh theater or dga it was yeah which was really cool
SPEAKER_00:it was at the the director's guild and they played it to a small audience um and we we met each other there yeah and we're like oh you're from usc oh cool i'm from usc too you know it's like
SPEAKER_01:we became small town i mean la is huge but you know if we if you work in film or try to work in film you know it's it's you meet people all the time and you become friends and work together so
SPEAKER_00:dude that's how we first met i mean everyone here at the film school you know will probably encounter each other at some point in their careers assuming they're in film still yeah um and that's why on the first day orientation they're like you know look to your left look to your right these are the people you're going to be working with exactly it's
SPEAKER_01:true i mean you look at some of the up-and-coming filmmakers and then they're their frequent collaborators you know they often say oh i met this person my second year at college and film school and we enjoyed working together and we just kept on working and that story comes up again and again and so I think that's the one of the you know one of the biggest takeaways one can have after film school
SPEAKER_00:you know that screening though was so interesting because that was my freshman year I've never really experienced LA or the film industry so seeing a red carpet premiere with you know press and celebrities i've never really seen any celebrities before that so it's like me neither i was standing like two feet away from the guy and glorious bastards yeah and an
SPEAKER_01:oscar
SPEAKER_00:an oscar
SPEAKER_01:winner and i'm not sure i think william
SPEAKER_00:defoe is you know
SPEAKER_01:not
SPEAKER_00:sure but the scientists you know yeah william defoe like he was in spider-man like that's crazy i was just standing right next to him i remember i was like i don't know i was just like really obsessed with that stuff and i was like whoa i want a selfie with this guy and then his assistant was like hey he's talking to other people right now so okay i had to chill out you know but it was really crazy seeing these people yeah the movies um Interesting for sure. But yeah, I mean, that's how we connected. And I do want to hear about what made you want to apply USC. How did you apply? You know, how'd you get in?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, honestly, long story short, I in high school film is still just an idea. that I had in my head is more like, you know, I never really imagined it as a real career. It's still just, you know, like a passion side hobby almost. And then I applied to USC along with a bunch of other colleges, not expecting or intending to study film at all. Although the sort of the seed, was already there, you know, I was thinking, like, well, part of the reason why I applied to USC out of, like, every other possible, you know, college and, you know, high-ranking colleges out there is because they have a film program and they have a really nice, you know, arguably the best film program in the world. I applied and I got into Dornsife, which is the liberal arts college. It was the best college I got into and it just made sense all around for me to attend. And so I came here, again, not intending to major in film whatsoever, but I think the moment I stepped into this world, I took 190, which is the intro to film class. I remember freshman year, I couldn't believe I was taking a full-on course online. on cinema at school because that has never happened. In high school, I've never taken a class on filmmaking. It was always going on YouTube, going on wherever books to try to learn filmmaking or film in general. There's a bunch of video essays on YouTube and whatnot. And it was crazy to me that for a whole class, all we talked about was singing in the rain, editing and cinematography and, you know, 180 degree rule and all the things that I was only dreaming about learning. And that was a crazy experience to me. And then ever since then, you know, I sort of tried to learn more about it. And I just threw myself into this world. And then I applied to the film school immediately after, you know, one semester in, got in. And then that's when I started crewing on different film sets and learning the ins and outs of production and so freshman year for me it was solidifying the idea that I will now try to commit next three years at college to filmmaking and to do my best to learn as much as I can like a sponge you know and just really take it all in. I mean, there's so many great people and projects and resources here. I mean, this town, we're literally next to Hollywood, so there's great resources here and there. But
SPEAKER_00:yeah, what about your freshman? Yeah, I love how you call it the town. It's like, do you listen to the town?
SPEAKER_01:I do know the podcast. I don't listen to it as often, but I really should. Is
SPEAKER_00:that because you have Apple... and not spotify maybe i don't know
SPEAKER_01:okay yeah
SPEAKER_00:i don't know if that's a thing because i couldn't get listen to the town on youtube music so i was like you know what just to listen to the town i will get a spotify subscription and now i listen to it and i love it but that's another topic for another day um yeah so i think this just goes to show like how even though you wasn't set on a certain path, you were able to adapt and figure out your true calling in a way. And I do wonder, though, when you applied to USC, was it because you saw the school rankings and you're like, they're the best film school? I mean,
SPEAKER_01:honestly, I mean, I applied to Stanford. I also applied to, you know, I think that was probably the one, Columbia as well. again, not intending to major in film at all. I was pretty sure I was going to be like a mechanical engineer or computer science major. Because your parents? Yeah, my parents worked in that field. It's, you know, it feels like that's always the path that I was sort of paving myself on. And it felt like, again, you know, it makes sense for a lot of people. It makes sense for, it made sense for me too. I mean, it's, Is it difficult? Yeah. You know, it can be challenging, you know, especially if you really want to excel in any STEM course. It's a lot of hard work and studying and, you know, and all that. So that was always the path. And I basically told my parents, you know, I was going to apply to film school. If I don't get in, I'll just do computer science and still keep film on the side. But then I got in and just felt like, you know, if there's one chance, if there's one opportunity to start really dedicating myself to something that I have been passionate about for a very long time, then now's the chance. I mean, you don't really get to do this after a while. I mean, you can always jump back into the industry and whatnot. But, you know, if you're at USC and your passion is film, then, you know. You got to do it. You got to do it.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:that's awesome and did how hard was it to convince your parents i'm like you want to do film like it definitely
SPEAKER_01:took a while i mean
SPEAKER_00:like how that conversation
SPEAKER_01:they were really they were so before that it was they thought you know filmmaking is cool it's fun but maybe it's not a career but then i think the moment i got into uc film school they were really really really excited for me wow okay um and they were like That's incredible. We see the passion and we see that you're doing great work and you're really putting in, you're being really proactive about it. And so I think that was sort of the tipping point for
SPEAKER_00:them. Yeah, I mean, dude, I feel like that's such a common thing with artists is like, most people don't feel like that's a career path that's viable and maybe they're right. And to be honest, if you come from a regular family, It's like, why would you want your kid to really just do film when there's way better paying jobs, way more secure jobs, stable life? You obviously want them to do something that would make their life better in your eyes. However, as artists ourselves, though, if you really believe that's what you're meant for, is making art, then you really just got to pursue it because life is short. You don't get to do... um things you love and if you if you don't get to do the things you love your whole life then it's like you're really wasting so many years you know it's like yeah it's so precious um like if your life spans 80 you know you live to 80 if possible it's like you gotta spend most of your life doing
SPEAKER_01:yeah at least try to put in your hours you know like put in the hours and the time to try to make something out of it and and You know, a lot of people aren't even majoring in film, and they end up doing it just from USC because of just how great of a culture there is here. I mean, again, going back to high school, I was one of the only people in my school that was interested in filmmaking. Flash forward to two years into USC, and all of a sudden, like, my... 80%, 90% of my friend group was filmmakers and actors and cinematographers, which is
SPEAKER_00:incredible. I mean, dude, that's probably one of the things that makes USC the best is the people here. You know, it's like, it's not even the facility. I mean, the facility is amazing. The staff is amazing. Faculty is amazing. But I think it's the fact that they're able to sift through the applications and bring the best people from every corner of the world into one classroom. I think that's what makes USC the best film school is that they're able to do that. You know, you're constantly surrounded by the people that, you know, are just so good and excellent at what they do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, film school is... That's what film school is really all about. I mean, I think it's pretty much common knowledge now that, you know, if you want to learn the basics of filmmaking and all the, you know, very fundamental craft elements of it, you can find it in books, on YouTube, you know, it's easily, easily accessible. And so, one of the biggest advantages of film school is you get to do it with others who are equally as passionate, if not more passionate and knowledgeable and talented and hardworking as you are. And so that becomes sort of like this engine that propels yourself forward and also those around you. And I think that's one of the great privileges of being here is to have all these people around you. I mean, where we're recording right now, I mean, most people here are, in the film school in one capacity or another, or involved in film in one way or another. And so, yeah, that's definitely one of the biggest advantages of USC is, yeah, bringing people together from different backgrounds. Yeah, that's definitely, I totally agree with that. I
SPEAKER_00:mean, I'm going to assume most of our listeners are going to be filmmakers, you know, people who want to do film. Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, people who are, you know, thinking about, you know, cinema is awesome. I love it. You know, where do we start?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. This is this podcast is for the people who are who love film, but who hasn't made like a big successful career yet. It's for people who are trying to figure out the path, right? And the first act I would just say is like, that is the passion itself, the hobby, the love for film. But how do you break out of the first act into the second act, which is a lifelong career of doing love, right? And I think some advice for people who want to do film and parents aren't that supportive is, guess always just first of all you got to make sure you have your life figured out like um as in have a stable um living situation stable um income and then then you can really um just do it on your own you know uh really try to pursue it on the side and if you are forced to study something else um and you but you love film don't ever lose that, you know, don't lose that passion. Just keep doing it on the side. And I think anyone could. There's filmmakers in all walks of life, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, some success stories. We'll dig more into this in later episodes, but one of the biggest advantages of being in this decade, this century, or this decade is the internet. You know, love it or hate it, you know, it's a great place for people to... pay attention to to your work um you have all these stories and of people who who started out as youtubers or as movie critics as just creators who were just creating for the sake of creating because they loved it and then it they built really a strong audience around it and then you know hollywood or elsewhere you know really saw opportunities there and projects have been greenlit at major studios because of how successful some of the art is on YouTube or Vimeo or I would argue even TikTok and all these short form content platforms. And I think that's one of the biggest advantages of trying to be a filmmaker today is back then you were limited by Gear. Gear, yeah. One of the other reasons you go to film school is because you don't have a camera. You go to film school because then you have access to a camera and then you can make stuff that teach you how to operate a camera. Now it's all different. Now you pull out any cell phone and you can make a film. Look at Tangerine, which is a film by the great Sean Baker. It was shot on the iPhone 5S, which came out like 10 years ago or something.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:just look at how great that film is, and you don't really need a very fancy camera to be able to do great work.
SPEAKER_00:I do love what you said about how easy it is to get into film nowadays. You know, anyone can be a filmmaker, really. Everyone is essentially a storyteller, right? So anyone can just make films they want to do, post on YouTube, post on whatever platform. It's so easy to get in, but then how... do you really make it right that's the question because the easier it is the more competition there is right that's right more content more uh you know what things that draw eyeballs right so what can what can you do to draw people to your own stuff is i guess we're trying to figure out on this podcast
SPEAKER_01:you can aspire to be a christopher nolan or the neville but that's the long haul you know it's it's a marathon and not a sprint and what we're trying to do is see the first point of break into the industry before someone has made any big splash we try to catch them before they become you know the next potential great director you know and uh director producer yeah producer you know executive executive you know agents uh dp editor you know all the crafts and all the you know industry uh positions that make that make this industry what it is and there's a lot of great other film podcasts like The Town so I was wondering what you what you've learned from all those podcasts and how that can apply to I
SPEAKER_00:think, I mean, it's good to stay informed of what's happening to see how the cultural media landscape has been shifting, right? So every time I listen to those, it's just like trying to see what's people, what are people watching, you know, what are people liking and how this goes into like broadening the audience for your own films, right? It's finding the projects and the businesses that are driving the industry. I do want to talk about some of our collaboration, actually. Yeah, for sure. our first film together was missing at sea right that's right that was uh two years ago now yeah two years ago uh i directed you produced for me it went to screen at the ellie schwartz international film festival and then it played at sidewalk film festival and it's gonna be playing at usc uh in a few weeks so it's a that's one of the bigger projects i've had it's definitely like a same a milestone for me it was the first one where i was in the dp and um and the director you know yeah and the director exactly exactly and we had like a full crew of people right and it was like the legit filmmaking way in a way like the is more legit than i've ever had it you know
SPEAKER_01:yeah no me too i mean i've never produced anything on that at that scale before
SPEAKER_00:so that was i mean tell me about your experience on that How did it feel? How is it looking back? Yeah, I mean,
SPEAKER_01:sophomore year where I was like, yeah, I want to do better and more ambitious things, you know. I was already looking for a project to produce because I've been on set a bunch. I've seen, you know, how things operate on set, you know, different positions, what each position is responsible for. And it was very eye-opening to me. And I just knew that, you know, if I were to do this the night before, sure to try to pull something together from the ground up and, um, see if I can, you know, and I love, you know, building something from, from zero to one, from nothing to something. And so looking for a project to produce. And I just remember, I think it was in one of our classes that you brought this idea to me. Um, I'm not sure if I, it was, uh, four, six, six. Yeah. The film symposium class where, um, they bring in, you know, key crew, including directors, most of the time directors, actors, production designers, you know, costume designers. And I think it was one of those classes where you brought the project to me and I immediately responded to it. I knew... I already kind of knew a little bit about your background just because of your YouTube content and all that. And so I was like, yeah, this is a guy who... just love filmmaking so much. And again, you know, I was still trying to adapt to an environment where everyone is in the film. And, you know, it's great to see that someone is willing to reach out to me to try to collaborate. And so I immediately said yes. We had a rough draft at that point. And we're still working on the story and trying to see where it leads. And, you know, we're exchanging ideas and notes back and forth. And it was around, I think, December and January. That's when... the process sort of kick-started. And I'll, by the way, I've never produced anything before at that point. I was new to it. You were new to it. Most of us were new to it. All we really had were, again, people who were interested in collaborating, who were interested in filmmaking. And we're just trying to pull it all together. And so that was a great experience of seeing, okay, here we got a script. We have a set budget. we're going to do it. We, and we're going to try to, you know, use up all the resources we have at our disposal. And so, yeah, I think it was, it was a great experience of trying to, you know, bring DPs on, bring gaffers on. And you reached out to the people to, to see if they're interested in, we made it happen. So it's a slate. Yeah, that's the slate. I mean, he still showed up missing at sea.
SPEAKER_00:This was the, the slate we used for the movie. Yeah. Yeah, and I have not erased the names because I just thought, I love it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, what a great moment to, I mean, remember. I mean, I, to this day, I'm so proud of pulling this together. And then, you know, going back to the idea of the marathon, I mean, literally just last summer, right, is when I got into LA Shorts, which is a year, over a year after production. Mm-hmm. if I have that correct. We shot early 2022 and then...
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It was 2023 summer. 2023? No, no. 2024 summer is when we got in, right? That's right. So that's almost a year after. 2022 was when I got into USC, so it would be 2023. Early 2023. Yes,
SPEAKER_01:exactly. Shot the movie. A year later, over a year later, LA Shorts and... Talk a little bit about directing your own project for the first time with all the crew and everything you learned.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, I mean, learned so much. I mean, I think the biggest teacher in filmmaking is actually doing it yourself. Really putting something together from the ground up. This was a story I wanted to tell for a while and I just wanted to... you know, use the new knowledge I learned at USC, the new people I've met to make something. Cause I, I always made stuff, you know, throughout high school. I loved just making films, doing it my way, doing the indie way, you know, not spending like, cause people would be spending 40K on a project, right? On a short. And I'm like, I just want to spend like a little bit of money and just make something the best I could. So I wrote the script based on the locations I knew I had access to, you know, and I, I got you because when I met you, I just knew you're like a, you're like a business kind of, yeah, you seem so chill and like professional that I was just like, wow, I mean, I definitely want to bring you on. And, you know, it worked really well. And I think with both of our experiences and knowledge at the time, we were able to put something together that I really loved. And it's actually coming to YouTube. That's right. I don't know when this episode is going to go out, but it's going to be out on, in early February. Two years after making it, it's finally going to be seen by people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's, you know, that's how we're, again, it's, you know, it's all, all of it is a marathon and not a, um, and
SPEAKER_00:it's crazy because while looking back and I'm like there's so many mistakes I made at the time that I'm like this isn't really a true reflection of my art now but it's a reflection of my art at the time and it's not even that I think movies are like a diary entry in a way where every time you make a movie it is a diary entry of your life your perspective on the world at the time absolutely and I think that's why you can't take forever on a film because then your perspective change you know that is very true right so it's like that is jayoung when i was uh you know 18 18 yeah uh it was right before my birthday and yeah because i remember i was like if i can make this happen and nothing goes wrong that's the best birthday present ever and uh it was a great birthday present i learned so much but mostly on the collaboration aspect of how to work with different departments, how to shot list, how to plan out the days, how to make sure you get everything you want, and how to really tell the story that is in your head with the budget and figuring out how it could work. We literally saved so much money by going to the dining hall. Do you remember that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I remember that. I mean, we're trying to cut costs wherever we can, and that's sort of indie spirit. You have to sort of try to figure out... creative solutions to problems. As creative as you are approaching the project itself, you know, you're trying to see what you can do to make it all happen within the set limit.
SPEAKER_00:You've been on set quite a bit, right? So what are some of the craziest stories you've experienced? Oh, set is
SPEAKER_01:such a, you know, you have to accept that it's sort of its own world once you step foot into it. It's got its own pace, it's got its own inner workings, you know, its own communication system and that's such a huge part of it is try to create an environment where different departments can listen to each other and hear each other out and that goes from directing to directors to actor and then you know dp to director dp to actor dp to lighting sound to camera and all these different intricate relationships have to work really well together. And so I'll say if anything, you know, the moment a film set can sort of launch yourself into chaos and it's hard to come back from that chaotic point. And so I've been on sets where, I think anxiety and stress and uncertainty really took hold of everyone, not just the director. And I think when a director panics, when a director shows, you know, that he or she is unsure of something or really stressed out and shows it explicitly, then that's when that's kind of a tipping point because everyone looks to the director for guidance. And if he or she wavers a little bit, that becomes a point where everyone starts to feel a little bit more stress. And then it sort of adds up to the point where people kind of pissed at each other you know they're not working together they have different ideas about things but they can't seem to figure out a way out and so that's when things can get a little bit go a little bit awry but then the opposite is true you know if you build an environment where everyone kind of supports each other and they really love being there and even though you know some people might have different ideas about a piece of lighting or a piece of direction or just by having that environment where everyone is enjoying themselves and put their best foot forward in contributing their piece of the puzzle, then that's going to be a great film set. And I think one of the great things about working with you, along with some other directors, is you're able to create an environment where, yes, the hours are long, yes, it's a hot day out, yes, it's tough, we've got to get this shot after another after another, um, you're able to create this environment where everyone is still enjoying themselves and everyone is still, you know, uh, working together to make something meaningful happen. And I think that's part of the, uh, that's part of what it takes to be, to be a director. I think, you know, um,
SPEAKER_00:appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Imagine, you know, being on a set of like Oppenheimer or something, you know, I don't think Christopher Nolan has the, you know, time, you know, or, um, energy to panic, even though it's such a huge project. And so I think one of the great traits you have is to be able to stay calm and stay focused and at the same time, you know, encourage each other and all the different crew members to have a singular goal in mind
SPEAKER_00:I mean dude I feel like you're more calm than me to be honest I think you ground a lot of the crew as well like really and that's why I try to bring you on to every project because you have that professionality and that chillness that every film set kind of needs to like ground because it is very fast paced people do get like a little irritated and I think you know for me I think it's really important to create a film set where it's a nice environment where no one feels bad you know where no one feels like they're um being treated poorly just because they're you know a lower in the hierarchy of a film set yeah um i think i above the line below the line
SPEAKER_01:all that
SPEAKER_00:exactly and i i do think that a lot of it comes from planning and a lot of it comes from your mindset you know once you figure out the day and you really organize it and everyone has good communication and you have a mindset of wanting to create this warm environment usually that's i mean the first step and i mean you do talk about people panicking and stuff Has anyone ever gotten mad at you on a film set? I
SPEAKER_01:do remember there was this one time I was a second AC. Oh, it's always second AC, bro. It was tough for me because I guess everyone on that set was very, very, you know, they were at their A game in the sense that they've been doing this for a while. I mean, they needed a second AC. And so, yeah, I guess that was stressful for me just because I think it was clear that I wasn't 100% fit for their role and for the scaled project. And so day one, I was already really panicking. I was like, I don't really know what I'm really doing here. And people didn't really get mad at me. I think I just felt there was this vibe of already kind of seeing, oh, I'm not really, you know, I don't really kind of belong here, quote unquote. It wasn't really a bad environment per se, but I definitely felt like a level of loneliness and a level of like sort of being left out of this world of where everyone was at the top of their game. And I think that's Something I noticed, and I think that's something I try to do or try to avoid later on in productions. I actually directed a short film where someone was also a second AC and I was a director. So this script kind of flipped. And it was also clear that it was one of their first times doing it, even though we had a DP that was very experienced and the first AC that was very experienced. And I could sort of sense that, you know, there's some friction going on where, you know, We're trying to have like a lens swap or a slate. And it just wasn't, I guess, running as smoothly as one would expect or hope. And it wasn't really anyone's fault because, you know, we already brought this person on. And so I tried to take a moment, you know, when we're having our lunch break to just sort of pat him on the back and say like, hey, we're so glad you're here and I know what you're learning. And, you know, we're not really, we're just making a student film. You know, it's not the end of the world. Just do your best and let me know if you have any questions. And I think that's, something i try to foster on sets is you know if you bring the person on then they're on and they're trying to do their best and i think everyone should try to start out with encouragement rather than judgment oh absolutely that's part that's part of i'm trying to do that better myself as well and then you know it's it's a lifelong pursuit so i try to keep that in mind as well but then obviously you're you're trying to hire the best people and trying to have bring the best people on board but right when you don't you know you're still going to make the film and so i think it's always better to lead with compassion and kindness rather than you know oh this person is not good enough this person is not really doing great at their job and we are and I just don't think that's the best you know work environment
SPEAKER_00:dude I remember the first few times I AC'd it was like the most welcoming set and I had such a good time it was one of the sets was one of our first times working together Dive Into The Blue that's right that was one of my favorite sets everyone was so nice everyone was just like so encouraging and they were just so fun to be around that's
SPEAKER_01:the other that's the other side of it is you got the sort of not so great part and then you got the team that really encourages you even though we're first timers
SPEAKER_00:so I mean I always assumed like film sets could be really nice and welcoming and then I stepped on this one film set
SPEAKER_01:we always have
SPEAKER_00:that one oh my god that one film set low key like I always think back besides that film set I've never went on a film set that I felt like I didn't belong there you know that set like I was second AC and And the DP in that set was not the nicest person, very impatient with the way I was working. And he was like, why are you moving the tripod so slow? Or like, you know, say the slate faster. You know, it's like one of my first times, second time seeing it. And it was like, I felt really like I didn't belong there. And I also felt like most of the people, besides one of the producers was quite nice to me, actually. She checked up on me and she was like, you know what, he's just, you know, stressed right now it's not really his fault but no besides her like pretty much everyone was just in their own world i try to you know talk to people but it was really awkward and no that was one of the sets i like i i never wanted to really work with them again because i was like wow like people could be this like mean i guess yeah and i mean it was just like why go out of your way to make someone else's day bad? It's like,
SPEAKER_01:come on. I think a lot of it is sort of projecting your own anxieties and fears and then use that as sort of an outlet, which I can sympathize with it. I mean, I've felt somewhat the same way sometimes where I feel like everything's going wrong and it starts to really get to me and sometimes it can really push the wrong buttons. all comes down boils down to some kind of problem solving and so once you accept that as like the nature of what we do i think it's easier to sort of go okay there will be one thing after another that we have to work through but that's literally part of what we do you know the dp has to figure out if this is the best place for lighting or that you know there's always about making choices and then it's i think you've had experience with this too but you know it's all really about how you're able to solve problems in the face of them and stay calm and just accept that that's part of the process that it's it's inescapable if you want to do filmmaking then that's part of Part of your life is to bridge that gap between expectation and reality and try
SPEAKER_00:to push forward. You're always solving some kind of problem on a film set, you know. So everything's going wrong and it's just about figuring out a way to create solutions to get around
SPEAKER_01:them. The key is to not treat them as problems but as opportunities. Really, it really is. Because, you know, you have a piece of direction for an actor. You know, it's not really like a critical problem. You know, if you keep thinking things are... I mean, there are problems for sure. But if you have the mindset of like, oh, it's a roadblock. And then every time I beat it, I get, you know, angry and more frustrated. Then, you know, you're going to get more angry. You're going to get angrier and more frustrated. But if you treat it as sort of almost not even a stepping stone, but it's a stone where after you conquer it, you stand higher than where you are before. Then that that's an opportunity. You know, there are a lot of happy accidents happen on set where piece of equipment breaks. didn't work or and then someone had to figure something else within like five minutes that became pure magic you know that became a highlight of the film and so I think you know you always have to treat it with a little bit of patience and sort of you know challenge as opportunity
SPEAKER_00:yeah dude I mean I think this is what makes doing something you love different than doing something that you're forced to do is like you get a solved problem that you want to solve you know imagine like you want to be a filmmaker but you're stuck doing CS like would you rather solve a problem where it's like oh the computer there's a bug or some shit you know or versus the tide's rising how do we get the shot before everything's in water you know it's like there's different problems and Picking the problems that you want to solve always makes you ahead of the people that are forced to solve problems that they don't want to solve. And I do want to talk about a little bit, what's next? What's the next future for you? What do you want
SPEAKER_01:to do? Yeah, well, I mean, we're all about first outbreaks here. So it's interesting. I mean, four years flew by. I mean, I still have a semester left. But looking back, I've had such a blast at USC and met some incredible people. And I think... if i learned anything at usc i mean obviously i learned you know going on set and whatnot but i think it's understanding that filmmaking is i've said this a million times already but it's a marathon not a sprint i think my freshman and sophomore year self you know it's easy to get caught up in the tide of film school and where everyone is creating everyone is um almost there's this energy of trying to like one up each other, you know, like I'm doing this and then I'm doing it better in this way. And I got into this festival.
SPEAKER_00:No matter what, you always get to the place you want to get to. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so I think that's the energy of it is that I try to take this principle with me in the future is, yeah, like you said, you know, it's, it's about taking baby steps, but staying consistent and keep going at it and whatever endeavor you want to pursue, you know, it's, it's about, it's, consistency and grit you know sure some people find some kind of success early on others you know find it later but the key is to throw yourself into into into the water and try to you know try to swim i guess that's the best way to learn to this one is to just throws out into the water. And I think, I mean, this industry is changing every day. And so I'm just trying to find something that gets me that first act break and then helps me, you know, go to the next level. And maybe I've had producing experience. I've had experiences at production companies, reading material and then seeing the potentiality of a project, which is similar for, you know, when we're students and you read a short script and build projects. a whole production around it and see how things can change. Yeah, I think my future definitely lays in still in film and I try to, again, put my best foot forward and we're in the best place for it, so.
SPEAKER_00:Really, we really are. And I love what you talked about is not comparing yourself, you know? Yeah, that's a big part of film school is comparing yourself. It's like comparison is absolutely the thief of joy, you know? And the only person that you should be comparing yourself to is the you from yesterday, really. You know, just improving yourself constantly instead of looking at other people. Yeah. Because I mean, I feel like everyone in film school or even like in film goes through is like you see someone get into Sundance and you're just like oh I'm so bad at filmmaking what am I doing you know it's like come on don't worry about what other people are doing you know worry about what you yourself are doing and it's like you really will get to the spot you want to get to one day just as long as you keep working on it and it might not be what you want to get to today but it's going to be where you want to get to in the future and I think it's just to keep in mind that everyone's in different pace different paths and you just keep grinding you know yeah i mean you're one year above me so you'll be thrown into society a little bit earlier yeah a little um so i'll be watching from afar you know wishing you the best and um i mean next semester i mean this semester i guess your last semester that's that must be crazy because i remember junior year you kept talking about oh my god i'm gonna be like out of school soon and now you're really about out of be out of school it almost feels like you had less anxiety now than you did last year to be honest
SPEAKER_01:yeah in a way i mean i think that's yeah i mean anxiety is it's interesting because you're you're trying to when you're trying to look so far ahead that kind of becomes a source of anxiety but then when you're right there and you just have to do it then that almost becomes less anxious for me i mean I don't know. I think I'm always more anxious when I'm prepping for a film. And then the day before, I just sort of let go because I've already done the prep work. And I almost feel less anxious the day before or when I'm on set. it's already we're here and we just have to do it you know whereas when you're looking ahead you know it's easy to you know think out all the different possibilities
SPEAKER_00:dude that's no that's absolutely true too and i think um you know there are so many paths right to making what you want to make um so it's just about really honing in the craft yeah and speaking on the anxiety part is um just being present i think it helps me a lot you know whenever i think too much on the future it's like i start stop losing focus on what's in front of me right now right exactly um you know if i'm with someone i'm just like wow or like i'm on vacation i'm like oh i have to like go back to school soon and i'm just like anxious about that but then i'm like wait but i'm in this beautiful place you know why am i not enjoying it yeah I think that definitely could apply to a lot of things. Oh
SPEAKER_01:yeah. The grass is greener where you water it. I think that's really cool. I heard that that really helped me is, you know, you're always going to think, Oh, that maybe that was the, maybe that's better. Maybe this person's doing it better. Maybe I should have done this or that. And at the end of the day, you know, it's, um, uh, you just have to make a decision and just, just go with it, you know? Um, what is that thing is Kierkegaard who said it that um you know you have to one always lives life forwards but life can only be understood backwards so you just as of today nobody has figured out time travel you know so yeah we're all just most of us are just winging it I think um I mean we do have plans we do have you know strategies and long-term goals but at the end of the day, if you boil that down to like daily tasks, nobody really knows what their day is really going to look like or next one. Everyone's just trying to do their best to do what they love and to, you know, try to keep going. So I think that's the spirit that I think most filmmakers should have or the young filmmakers like us should have is to understand that, you know, it's not about doing everything you can right now and just like try to like squeeze everything into one year and see what happens it's great I think that's a great attitude but also understand that it's consistency and it's grit and it's doing things because you love to do it rather than you're expecting some immediate result after one day or two days or a month it's about keep doing it and you don't stop doing it
SPEAKER_00:life is a journey so many steps ahead of us so much to look forward to though I'm very optimistic about everything. I'm really excited about what we can make in the future and all of the new podcasts that we got planned. We have literally a guest list of some of the coolest people in the industry and people in the film school that we will bring on very soon. And we'll be hopefully keeping a consistent upload of weekly podcasts. And I think, yeah, no, I'm really excited. But
SPEAKER_01:yeah, I mean, this has been great. I, again i've never done a podcast before this is i don't think you have really either we've listened to a lot of podcasts so you've already have a pretty strong uh youtube fan base i think you got our fans are the best dude exactly you got three k uh subscribers and all your videos get at least it's so many views I mean it's already I mean you gotta you know start
SPEAKER_00:somewhere but you know it's yeah I mean honestly I don't even really consider them like fans they're just like part like they're filmmaking collaborators right the
SPEAKER_01:community yeah the community really that's what it's all about yeah Yeah, it's to build some kind of community, whether it's here, whether it's through YouTube, whether it's through whatever means possible. Filmmaking is a collaborative effort. Like Jianing said, we have a lot more planned ahead. And I'm sure our guests will have different and also more inspiring and interesting takes and ideas to bring forward. And we have DPs, we have also other aspiring directors, producers. So they're going to have a little bit more of a different perspective on things that we do. What we're trying to do is to... an honest perspective on people our age who are just starting out and we don't know any better but we're trying to know to know better and trying to push forward
SPEAKER_00:totally
SPEAKER_01:yeah stay consistent
SPEAKER_00:awesome see you guys in the next episode see you guys that's a wrap peace
SPEAKER_01:out