First Act Break
Insights on finding success in the film industry — by young filmmakers, for young filmmakers. Hosted by USC film directors Jiayang Liu and Richard Li.
First Act Break
How we got into USC Film School and Our 4 Year Experience
Welcome to episode 2 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry. Today, we share how we got into USC film school and our experience studying here the last 4 years. We go over our portfolio, essays, and all the fun stories studying at USC film school has to offer.
Welcome to the First Act Brave Podcast, episode two. I'm Richard Li. I'm Jiayang. Today, we're going to be talking about the whole, what is USC Film School? How do you get in? What makes it such a good place? And some advice for people who are looking at film schools.
SPEAKER_02:That's right. Let's dive
SPEAKER_01:right in. I'll tell you a funny story.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, first off, funny story.
SPEAKER_01:I was in my cinematography class a few days ago, and we were taking attendance. Semester just started, so the professor doesn't really know any of people's names. And she gets to my name, starts getting confused on how to pronounce it, you know, as all professors do. And I correct her, I was like, it's pronounced Jiayang. And she was like, oh, and looks up at me, and she was like, are you the kid who made that How to Get Into USC video? And I was like, what? like how did you know and I like the whole class like there's people in that class like that are my friends who watched that video so it was like everyone started laughing and it was like it was really funny that the a professor who's like you know such a veteran in the industry just like stumbled upon that video and it's also crazy because she works at admissions for the USC film school so I talked to her oh that kind of makes sense yeah right I talked to her during the break and I'm like what did you think of the video and she was like well I didn't get to watch the whole thing but she's seen videos similar to that where they give like a step-by-step application process where they're like you know for this you gotta submit this for this and she was like you know students that listen to that guy I don't admit because I want to see and she shared a secret of how to actually get into film school that we'll get to in a bit but she told me that she didn't want those kind of videos and I was like well you know what my video isn't like that even though I don't remember what I really said in that video it was like three years ago and So she was like, you know, I'm going to go watch it afterwards and see how it is. So I hope she watches it and likes it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm sure she will. I mean, I think a lot of people got in through your video, right? I don't know. I think you've had students come up to you. I have had people come up. Hey, I watched your video and
SPEAKER_01:that's kind of how I got in. I love when they do that because then it kind of breaks that barrier between viewer and creator. It's like we are all one community. And it's like, just come up, say hi. Love to meet everybody, really. If you want to grab coffee, just let me know. So tell me a little bit about your application process because you're in high school, just finished standardized tests. How is that whole process like for you? Did you get a tutor? How did that work?
SPEAKER_02:We kind of touched on it last episode, but I'll expand it more here. So for me, again, I... kind of applied to college without considering film school as my major or anything and so then i didn't really apply as a film major at all i knew going in that it was going to be somewhat of a hobby so i just applied to college as a humanities major i was into storytelling already and into the whole idea of the monomyth uh which is a idea popularized by joseph campbell and it's Used by George Lucas, you know, as a storytelling tool, you know, the story circle, hero's journey and all that. So that was kind of the main part of my application was that as a driving force of my curiosity and my academic interest for the most part. And so it wasn't really film. It was humanities. It was whatever major the school offered. I think for some schools I applied as English major. Others, you know, at USC, I applied as narrative studies, which some of our friends are a part of. It kind of blends film and novels or literature and theater and all that together. So Common App, essays, you know, high school grades, all the standard stuff you need. So I didn't really have a portfolio. So that was my case. And I got into USC. Out of all the colleges I applied to, it was... objectively, you know, if you look at all the college ranking websites, it was the highest ranking one. And it just made sense to me that if I was into film and it was also at the same time, the best college that I got into, then that has made all the best sense to me and my parents. So I basically committed around March of 21 or I think it was April, May of 21 ish around that time, early in the year, got in and flew all the way from Beijing to here I was still the pandemic came here and within the first about month or so during my freshman year it was already an eye-opening experience for me because I was taking a class full-on just on filmmaking and I was like there's no way I can't give this thing a try right and so I did I told my parents you know I'm just gonna apply because why not you know it's doesn't cause a lot I think the application fee was like 20 bucks or something and I Applied Roman essays, and I thought I should apply as a cinema studies major because it felt like the right choice for me. I didn't have a lot of work behind me or that I've done before. And so it was all about essays and what I think about cinema and what I think about this art form and the history of it and the future of it. So I wrote a bunch of essays on it, got in, and I was really excited and so were my parents. And that's kind of how I got my start. And since then, I basically started being involved in productions, you know, hopping on set. My first position was like a second AC and all that. And so for me, the application process wasn't as complicated as the production major, which I'm sure is. is a bit more complicated involves a little bit more planning and you know portfolio building so if you want to expand a little bit more on that on your end when you were a high school senior
SPEAKER_01:yeah i mean i started up uh getting ready for the application a while before the application process started it actually started during covid a year before i applied when i spent every day studying for the act because i knew That was one of the hardest things for me is that standardized test score. And I know it became test optional at the time, but I did get a high enough score at the time. I took that ACT like officially like three times, unofficially like 16 times. First time I got a 19 out of 15. 36 which is really sad but the last time it got somewhere and then my final one was a 32 36 and i was literally one question away from a 33 doesn't matter though i got in um but the thing is like i spent so long preparing for that that's crazy and now looking back it's like wow i literally just spent like a year studying for a test Doesn't matter though, because at the end of the day, I got to the goal I wanted to, which is to get to USC. And then the process, it was definitely a lot. so much materials needed a lot of prep time needed ahead of time so i feel like if you are applying to film school you definitely should apply and get your materials in way more in advance before the application like opens for example like they ask for the the media samples or really make your film early write your film early on and then just get good at the craft of filmmaking right i mean i don't want to be like concrete like this is exactly what you have to do to get into usc But there's certain things that you have to meet the threshold to be really considered. And we'll talk more on that later. I think the main difference between production students and non-production students at the film school is just like we had a... coming into USC we had to do more than just the writing and essays and grades it was like a lot of things to demonstrate who we are as a storyteller I think that's so important to embrace your originality your authenticity oh absolutely right it's like really um showing that you are who you are so for me I grew up in Wyoming but I was from Beijing um and I really tapped into that identity with my essays with the film I made about this guy on a ranch who's like a rancher who wants to leave the town but doesn't want to leave his grandfather behind um and really just tap into who you are and it doesn't have to really at all be high production value um my one of my best friends at USC Alex he made a film about a dude who just like leaves his hometown and misses uh his hometown when he goes to the city. And the whole thing is black and white photographs, just like put together with a voiceover. So simple, so easy. You can film it, you know, no budget needed. And he got in, but I also know people who spend like 10 grand. I'm not going to say who, but I know people who spend 10 grand on their application movie and also got in. So it really doesn't matter. I think what matters is to show a unique person, a unique storyteller, someone who's confident in their identity. I think it's so huge. And for you, what did you talk about in your application essay? I'm so curious.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, from what I remember... I only spent about a week or so, two weeks maybe, working on it. That's a long time. The semester already kind of started, and I think it was due around September, mid to late September. And we start in late August, so that was about a month. But then I only realized that I really wanted to apply around... very early to mid-september so i had about a week or two to prep
SPEAKER_01:wow and this was after you got into us yeah this was
SPEAKER_02:already freshman year 2021 august 2021 and i started writing you know the problem was like you know i think it was just what do you think about film and what why you know this major and whatnot i think what i wrote was this idea of like moments and time I drew some quotes from the great Andrei Tarkovsky, from Peter Docter, from Richard Linklater. Something I find common in their work is their exploration of existence in time. And Tarkovsky has his own theory about sculpting in time and how that's unique to the art of film. So I kind of relied on that, slightly pretentious with the Tarkovsky stuff, but I thought it was really what I felt. Whenever you're watching a movie, it's this transcendental experience where you're thrown into a different way of looking at time and space and how there are only moments that we live for there's only the now it's one moment after another after another that somehow creates a unique story and what's interesting about film is it it's able to you know jump ahead in hundreds of years with just one cut you know in 2001 but then You can also make something like Richard Linklater where it's a very contained story that happens in one day or a chronicle of someone's life over 12 years. So it was just this idea of how moments add up in life and how that differs from film and how films would explore that. I can't remember the exact details. I thought it was pretty well written. If I look back on it, it might change, but I do remember it was pretty personal in terms of just how I really felt about art form. And it's interesting because I think if I look back on it now, it's interesting to see how I felt about it at that time versus how I feel about it now. And if there's any differences, but I think, I think most of it still, still held true. So that was the main part. And then I think there was a personal statement or was that the personal statement? I think that was just a personal statement. And there were, I think, two other essays about why you want to pursue this major and what it'll help you in your career and your time at USC so that was the main part and oh there was a slider room uh slide room application as well I believe it was not as extensive but it was sort of a short portfolio list i think it wasn't at all serious but it was like a list of oh it wasn't even creative work it was just your written work and you know i submitted my macbeth essay from high school because i thought our high school was very focused on english and we have a pretty rigorous program there and i just pulled like the best essay i had from high school and with the highest grade submitted it you know i thought it was a good literary analysis and everything and since film studies is kind of hmm English but with film I submitted it and I got in I think around October ish so or November October ish whatever but yeah it was really exciting when I found out the news it was kind of a dream come true moment for me I still remember how happy I was because yeah it went from like something that I only thought about when I was very little to like a reality which is quite exciting if you can imagine it's you know it's from zero to one. So that was a, I was very fond of that memory. Nice. Yeah. Talk about a little bit about how, when you found out, you know, the schools that you got into, including USC and how that
SPEAKER_01:felt like for you. Okay, so, you know, I actually applied to USC summer program a year before I applied to the actual film school. And I remember when I first got my acceptance to the summer program, I jumped out of my seat. I like ran down my hallway, just yelling. Fast forward a week into that program, I dropped it because I was like, wait, Loki, it's not that helpful. But that's another topic. Uh-huh. but my reaction, I recorded my reaction for every application, every acceptance. Um, yeah, no, it was so surreal. And the fact that I got to be with my mom when I saw the letter coming from USC was made it more special. I think. Yeah. I
SPEAKER_02:jumped out and I remember my mom saying that was like one of the happiest moments I've seen you. Cause I also jumped out. I was like, there's no way
SPEAKER_01:I was so happy. Like, did you jump up? Like, For the USC film school? It was actually just USC. And I think upon
SPEAKER_02:reflection, when my mom and I talk about it, she was like, yeah, I feel like you already had your heart set on the film school and the film program.
SPEAKER_01:No, I remember it was funny because I had a similar idea to you, but that was when I wanted maybe to study CS and I wanted to go to Stanford for CS. But I'm like, I'm good at film, so maybe I'll get into Stanford through film and transfer to CS. But then I just ended up like, Like that's a stupid idea. I'm just going to pursue film, which is actually the thing I want to do. But yeah, no, I was so excited that day. That day was stressful because the acceptance notice didn't come out until really late in the day. It was like supposed to come out on that day and it was like, 4 p.m and i was still not out and i was like this is the day when i come out maybe like i didn't get it but then one of my friends texted texted me he's like yo did you get the notification because he also applied to usc and he was like one of the only people in my high school that applied there he eventually went to nyu but he told me he didn't get in and i was like oh shoot i didn't even get an email notifying me i went to the portal it's there so they updated my status without even emailing me so i was so scared i click on it and i I see those fight on little symbols like floating.
SPEAKER_02:I was like,
SPEAKER_01:yes. And I was just like, that changed my, that definitely changed my life. Like coming to USC, one of the most pivotal moments. I remember I was so happy for the whole week. Um, this is every moment of my day. I just felt so happy because I've been in that small town in Wyoming for seven years and I knew I had to get out of there and pursue my dream with, you know, the best people I could surround myself with. And that's when I knew that I could finally do that. Because I didn't go to a private institution growing up, but I knew I wanted to be with the best. And when I found out, I was so happy. But I was really cautious because I was like, you know that idea where it's like when something really good happens in your life, you're like... Yeah, you're a little bit scared. Something bad might happen. Something
SPEAKER_02:bad is going to happen next.
SPEAKER_01:I was driving so carefully. I was like, no, I'm not getting in a car accident. I'm not going to get shot. I'm not going to get kidnapped. This is... Yeah, but thankfully nothing happened. I'm at USC and this is my dream. And it's amazing. I do want to hear about your... your mindset when it came to USC because I know you applied to so many Ivy Leagues. Would you have chosen, like if you got into Harvard, theoretically speaking, but you also got into USC film school, which one would you have picked?
SPEAKER_02:That's a great question because I have a story about it. So I did also apply to Stanford and just kind of for the fun of it. I mean, I had no expectations going in. Applied. And actually, surprisingly, I got an interview from an alum. And that was kind of the process. It was like, you know, if they consider the application strong enough, then we'll have someone who have graduated interview you and go through that process. I thought it went well. A couple weeks later, I think, I actually got waitlisted off of Stanford, which to this day, I'm slightly proud of, actually really proud of because, you know, It wasn't a straight-up rejection from Stanford, right? And Stanford is a huge name. And at that point, I've already gotten into USC. I've already received an acceptance letter. I hadn't committed yet. And so one day during lunch, my dad just asked me, like, okay, I'm going to ask you a question, and you have to answer it in three, five seconds. I think it was five seconds. And I was like, okay, go ahead. I'm kind of ready, I guess. And he goes... If Stanford accepts you right now, and you have to choose between Stanford and USC, which one would you choose? And I actually, I kid you not, I just straight up said USC. Wow. I had no hesitation. That's
SPEAKER_01:amazing. And it wasn't even in the film school at that
SPEAKER_02:point? No, it wasn't even at the film school at that point. And then I think my dad just kind of understood that I had a strong sort of inclination to the film, the idea of even... being close to that world. And he was actually really happy about it because it showed that I was determined and I had a strong opinion about something, which he really values. And so, yeah, I mean, I didn't really wait for the Stanford results, which honestly, I don't even really know how I made that decision really that quickly, but it just felt instinctual that I've had the choose between, you know, pursuing what i truly love at the best place to do it versus this idea of you know going to ivy league and doing something that i'm not really passionate about right it felt like you know you only live once and so then that's what i chose but um so so back to your question yeah you know harvard you know basically is stanford or synonymous yeah i would i would say i mean i i That kind of gives you the answer. You know, I was pretty determined on just
SPEAKER_01:committing to USC. So there was no other school that you debated? Not
SPEAKER_02:really. I mean, I got into some colleges in the UK in the film program. But then, you know, it's LA, USC versus UK, which no disrespect to the United Kingdom. I mean, UK, some British films are amazing. But, you know, if you wanted to pursue, I mean, I think it's common knowledge. I'm on YouTube. At least people from our age group. You know, if you're in high school, if you're early in college, I think USC is the golden standard for pursuing film. I think that's true across the globe, I would say. I mean, you look at some of the graduates, it's pretty obvious that this is the place to be. So, yeah, that was pretty much committed at that point.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean... i was debating as well i remember um growing up in middle school my grandpa would always joke about where not even joke about like just be like manifesting like he's like you're gonna go to harvard one day harvard harvard yeah and i just thought it was like you know what just like just random nonsense but then i got to the application process and I was like really thinking about maybe I should apply to Harvard because you know, they have a film analysis program and it's Harvard, right? It's like, what if I get into both? I can do a little poll on my Instagram story to flex. But I ended up not doing it because there's other schools I thought were better. I feel like I probably would have gotten more out of like Chapman film school than Harvard business or Harvard film studies, just because it's like film studies. Like who wants to do film studies? And so I never applied there, but I did, I really debated between Chapman and USC actually, the film schools. Cause I got like a, like a half scholarship to Chapman, which, you know, was a lot, a huge deal. And I did so much research on the difference between the two film schools and, And I think the thing that made me decide on USC was the fact that it is USC. The brand, really, it wasn't just one art school. It's more like a whole institution. And the film school is just towards the center of it, whereas Chapman is mainly focused on the film program there. And I wanted that college experience where it's like college football game day. These are all the... alums from you know USC and also I wanted to be like a director producer so I felt like Chapman's more towards the technical side of things so I ended up picking USC and it was the best decision ever really it took me a few days to really decide because you know it is a good scholarship but ultimately I was like USC is the place I wanted to be you know and I do want to hear your opinion. If you got into Harvard or Stanford, which one would you pick, theoretically speaking?
SPEAKER_02:Like between Harvard and Stanford? Yeah. Oh, man, that's a difficult question. I mean, I went to high school in the East Coast, so I think... So Harvard. Yeah, if I were back in high school, I think the safe choice... would be harvard in the sense that it's close and i'm used to it but i think i also would love a change of pace and the change of scenery and everything by going to stanford
SPEAKER_01:so okay if you graduated high school you know offer offer two options usc film school or harvard business school Which one would you pick? I
SPEAKER_02:mean, USC. I mean, at least, okay. Okay. Back in the, if I was a high school senior applying to college. Yeah. Yeah. Which, I mean, the story I just told you, I think that pretty much.
SPEAKER_01:What about, what about USC film school or assistant to Christopher Nolan?
SPEAKER_02:Theoretically.
SPEAKER_01:Theoretically.
SPEAKER_02:You always have. Probably, probably assistant to Christopher Nolan. You would not go to college. No.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. If I had that position. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, you're not guaranteed to be his assistant forever. How long? For one film? No, no, no, not for one film, just until you get fired.
SPEAKER_02:So it could
SPEAKER_01:be
SPEAKER_02:one
SPEAKER_01:day? It could be one day. Or it could be a few years.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, if you frame it as one film, guaranteed, I'm hired. And unless something terribly goes wrong, like I get sick or I'm just entirely untrustworthy and they realize I'm not a good hire and fire me, And if it's a guarantee for one film, I'm pretty sure I'm going to take that because I don't think if I have that on my resume, you know, I don't think that you don't really, I mean, you could still, I mean, you could still go back to school, but it's just having that on your resume is such a good, it's huge. Yeah. I mean, I think, well, what would you think if now I think I would probably take a gap year and then just to do that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You're right. Yeah. And then you go back. And if it's great, then you don't have to quit. Are there any schools that rejected you? Oh, a lot, yeah. What are some of the lower tier schools that rejected you that you're like, what the heck? I
SPEAKER_02:didn't apply to... Actually, I didn't apply to UNU. Because I knew I didn't. Did you apply to NYU? I did. You did? I got waitlisted at NYU. The reason I didn't want that was because NYU didn't really have a campus. Right, yeah. It felt like I was just straight up thrown into a huge city, which has its advantages, right? You kind of just learn about how to survive and navigate a huge city, metropolis. I didn't really kind of want that. I felt like if I was to go to college, I'd still want some kind of... environment which felt like i was in a college campus yeah i feel like nyu obviously it has its buildings but you know it's all blended into the larger new york city vibe and so uh didn't apply to nyu apply to usc uh applied to tufts applied to boston college boston university You got in? BU? Got into BU. I got rejected from BU. Really?
SPEAKER_03:I don't know
SPEAKER_02:why. I got rejected from Tufts. I actually found out back to back from USC. So I first discovered, it was the same day that Tufts and USC came out. And straight up rejection from Tufts. Which came first? Tufts. Oh, that must have been hard. So my heart sunk. I was like, yeah, there's no way. Because USC, with every ranking, ranked above Tufts and USC. you know, if you look at the acceptance rate, it was lower. And I checked and it was a straight acceptance, which really shocked me. So that was really great. And where else? King's College, London, which I got in. And I didn't get into UCL, University of... University College, London, which is actually the college that Christopher Nolan went to for English literature. Didn't get in. Where else did I apply to? That was about... I applied to Columbia, early... Or early... early what was it called early action early decision ed early decision
SPEAKER_01:oh wow so yeah so i was if i got it that was
SPEAKER_02:it yeah
SPEAKER_01:i know that's bold that's bold it was a different it would have been a
SPEAKER_02:different world yeah columbia okay and i got i think i got waylisted I see. And then I was kind of sad about it because I thought I had it. Didn't get in, which honestly probably turned out for the best.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. I mean, everything really turns out for the best, I
SPEAKER_02:think. And I think that was about it. Boston College, Boston University, Tufts. Dude, I got rejected from UCLA, bro. Oh, me too. Me too. All the UC brand, I got rejected. Besides, I think UC Santa Barbara.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:I got rejected from UCSD, from UCLA, from... UCI? Berkeley. I didn't apply to UCI.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. I don't think. I got into UCI. Yeah. That's cool. Let's go. And Eaters.
SPEAKER_02:Some of our friends, cinema friends, DPs actually go to UCI. There's a lot of Orange County people
SPEAKER_01:who
SPEAKER_02:are into them. Oh, yeah. OC guys. Yeah. OC people from... yeah do we do film
SPEAKER_01:yeah it's crazy because i don't know like the whole process is so like intricate and complex and it's like so subjective too um but there's also you know ways you can figure out how to like kind of put yourself above other people when it comes to your application strength how was the interview process did you get interviewed by usc
SPEAKER_02:no actually okay i don't think i did that i think only a couple colleges did that stanford did that did you what other schools did you enter northwestern i think which rejected me. Northwestern, I think, interviewed me.
SPEAKER_00:I
SPEAKER_02:can't exactly remember, but a couple, not a lot. I think what I remember was Stanford being the only one that stood out to me because the interviewer was pretty memorable. But yeah, actually, I was wondering if you applied to colleges... without the film program because i know you applied to chapman and usc and you know nyu for film so yeah were there any other programs you applied to and how did that affect your your decision
SPEAKER_01:no that's a good question so i was making my list of film schools yeah and i was like if i don't get into the top like 10 best film schools like one of them i'm just not gonna do film and i'm gonna either do law or do business and i actually got rejected for lmu for film but i got into their business school oh which i don't know why I think I don't know I actually don't know why at all but besides them it was mostly just like most are film production and there's a few film analysis classes or degrees but it was mostly just film I was like I have to do it you know and also for the interview process for me I interviewed three times and I actually really liked the interview process just cause at the time I was like
SPEAKER_02:this is for
SPEAKER_01:USC or LMU I did three interviews, one's for USC, one's for FSU. Gotcha. One's for Chemin.
SPEAKER_02:FSU as in full scale, full sale?
SPEAKER_01:No, it's Florida State. Oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha, okay. And yeah, no, I mean, I was like a speech and debate kid at the time. Yeah. So I was like, yo, I love talking and people never really asked me about film. Yeah. So when someone actually asked me about my filmmaking journey, I was like, yo, Let's go, you know? So I had a really good time on all the interviews. For the USC interview, I actually looked up the lady who was part of the interview, who was my interviewer. And I found out that she was an editor. So I kind of turned my conversation to touch that a little bit. and yeah i think my advice for like interviewers like just like to be yourself and just show that you're a passionate film person but also show that you do more than just like making movies you know they want to get like a full person who's like diverse and stuff and Yeah, I remember FSU, they were like, you have to come to FSU campus to do the interview, but it was during COVID.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I was like, well, no, because it's COVID. And they're like, well, that's our policy.
SPEAKER_02:That's actually kind of, is that really a great decision on their part? I mean, would someone just travel from their home to just for an interview and then come back during COVID?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And I was like, if you don't let me interview, I'm just not going to like, keep going with this application process. I'm sure a lot
SPEAKER_02:of other people felt that
SPEAKER_01:way. Yeah, it was. But then they compromised and let me do it on Zoom one. But it's funny because during my Zoom one, everyone else in the Zoom lobby were all international people. And they told me like, either you're international or you can't, like, you have to come here. And I'm like, oh, I still, like, didn't feel comfortable doing that. But then I became really good friends with a lot of people in my Zoom lobby who are the coolest people. None of them go to USC. One of them go to FSU. One of them go to NYU. One of them... you know they're all over the place and um that was like my first touch of like other film people and i was just so happy with it yeah uh discovering this community through film school is just like one of the best things ever it really is you know especially if you're from a place where you're not surrounded by creatives all day like i'm imagining if you're from oc like you're with film people all the time but if you're not it's like such such a magical moment to be honest it is it
SPEAKER_02:is yeah Oh my gosh. I think we touched on it last episode. But yeah, going from... My high school was pretty... It was pretty STEM-focused. It had a good English program. It had a good theater program. It had good emphasis on the arts. Photography, you know, painting. Pottery, too. Okay. And then I think there was just the one singular class offered on filmmaking. And... it was taught by the photography teacher who, who is awesome. Who's great. Um, I love having his class, but it was just the, the program itself was not developed whatsoever. It was a very fundamental beginner sort of, you know, a very intro to film kind of program, which is great, but I just hadn't, we, we just didn't have that atmosphere. I mean, everyone was doing painting. Everyone was doing theater. Um, you know, joining bands. I was in jazz band. Wow. What'd you do in jazz band? I just keys, piano. You play piano? Yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_03:How did
SPEAKER_02:I not know this? Really? I've never, I think it's because, yeah, I think it's because, you know, it's hard because you have to find a piano or a keyboard. You have one in your apartment, right? I do. Yeah. I don't play as much anymore. I really should, but that's so cool. Yeah. So that was, there was a lot of arts, but there wasn't filmmaking. I think I was along with like maybe two other people. people at my high school was either into videography or was sort of into cinema as in you know watching movies and you know and breaking them apart like you do Macbeth or The Bluest Eye in English class so yeah that transition from that to all of a sudden over the course of a year you know 90% 80% of my friend group were filmmakers and actors and, you know, DPs. It was mind-blowing. It was a great transition. I'm sure you felt the same way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, dude. I was, like... I felt like I changed personalities when I stepped into USC campus. I was so much more, like, extroverted. I was, like, trying to meet everybody, you know? And before, I really didn't have a huge, like, motivation to meet everybody. You know, it's like... I didn't really care that much, but then at USC, I was like, wow, this is such a cool place with the nicest people. I feel like the quality of people here are really just top tier. Not just the way they think, it's the way they carry themselves. I mean, of course, there's going to find people that don't really fit your vibe, but more often than not, it's very nice and very genuine, talented people that you find here. in every field. It's so diverse. So, I mean, how was your first year at USC? Because that was towards the end of COVID, so I'm sure you had to wear masks everywhere. What was your impression of the school like?
SPEAKER_02:A lot of masks, obviously, for COVID. Took a lot of GEs just to figure out what I really wanted to do. Because at that point, I wasn't, again, really fully, 100% committed to film. I took, you know, philosophy classes, introduction to cinema, a couple others. CS actually, introduction to Python. Oh, wow. Which my dad kind of talked me into taking. It was an elective, but it was fun. Slightly challenging, but it was fun. So, yeah, it was kind of a whirlwind. If I remember, I mean, COVID was a huge part of it. And I... Was not on a singular film set. My first semester of freshman year. One of the reasons being. I didn't want to step right into all of it. In the beginning. I think maybe I was on one. I was on one film set. And it wasn't even like truly a film set. It was just a couple friends with a camera. Trying to make stuff. That kind of deal. Not full on. Got a grip truck. All the lighting equipment. An RE or something. It wasn't anything like that. And so... For me, it was all about let's figure out this place first. And, you know, I got into the film program halfway through first semester anyway. So I'm meeting people. I met a bunch of friends, both inside and outside of USC. A bunch of actors, freelance, assistant cameras, more actors, more DPs, actors, both within and outside of USC. So a lot of it was about just soaking it all in. and adapting to a new environment. Yeah, so the first semester, it was all about adapting. It was about soaking it all in, meeting as many people as I can, trying to figure out what this campus is about and what this city is about. Second semester was when I first started to go, okay, let's try to hop on a movie set. And the first one I hopped on, it was amazing. It was such an eye-opening experience. Who was the first one you hopped on? It was called... The Story of This Life by... Oh. We've probably heard of it. Alex Jiang was the... Oh, right, right, right. She was also on Dive Into The Blue, which we touched on last episode. Yes. She was the director along with two other producers with whom I still have contact today. And it was great. I had no idea. For the most part, I had no idea what was going on. There were walkies all over the place. There was these stands with three legs and an arm And some knobs. What is that? What's it called? I have no idea what it was called. Okay. You know? And I was like, what the hell is that? What is this? I've never seen this thing before. And then I think people were just like, oh, it's a C-stand, which we have set up
SPEAKER_01:right here. Now it's all over our studio. It's all over
SPEAKER_02:the place. We've got two of them in this one room.
SPEAKER_01:Here, let me take a video for our viewers. Here is the video.
SPEAKER_02:We've got one here. We've got one here. We've got one here for later.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I guess you really want if you're watching on YouTube you can see what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah Anyways, yeah, I didn't know what a c-stand really was. So I learned all of that. I learned you know, what what is the first ad? What is how do you script supervise? I mean, I think I script supervised for a little bit because somebody else was sick so I have to take photos of the monitor and like write down notes and like continuity and Back then it was just, you know, I knew what kind of nudity it was. I knew what script supervising was just from YouTube videos and, you know, learning filmmaking yourself. But then doing it for real really changed the equation for me. And so from then on, I started just getting on as many sets as I possibly can in different positions. I did second AC, I did sound, I did a lot of boom hopping actually, because I was told that it's, you know, it's physically demanding. Yeah. But you really do get to observe a lot about how a set operates.
SPEAKER_01:And you're tall. You have the long arms. True. That's true. You know, a lot of
SPEAKER_02:people kind of just knew me as the boom operator, and they just kept asking, like, oh, would you be down to boom up? In freshman year, I was like, oh, yeah. Overnight, I mean, I did a whole overnight shoot just as boom up from, like, two to six, just to experience how it felt freshman year. Do you like that? It was fun. It was a really fun shoot. And seeing how it all came together... and how I contributed to a part of that was amazing. I mean, got to start from somewhere. So yeah, that was kind of my second semester was focused on trying to go on set more and seeing what that's all about and learning the ins and outs of production. So there was definitely a strong learning curve. I mean, to this day, obviously I still haven't learned everything. But I think over the years, I've definitely have a firmer grasp about how to set things up, how to produce a movie, you know, how to pull things together. And you don't have to know everything. You just have to maybe know a little bit, slightly about everything, but not to the point where you're an expert because that'll take years. And the point of producing then is to pull a lot together. So that was my freshman year. It was adapting and learning. being like a sponge that just, you know, soaked in information. Absolutely. Yeah. What about you? I'm sure it was about the same, but a little bit different because you jumped right into the production major.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, the whole idea of being on someone else's set was so foreign to me before coming to college because in Wyoming, no one was filming anything, right? Yeah. I didn't have any friends who was filming anything. Just you
SPEAKER_02:and your camera
SPEAKER_01:and your friends. And it wasn't like a professional set at all. However, I got to USC and I joined this like, you know, there's so many group chats out there. So I was in this one group chat where they're like, yo, does anyone have like, can someone do camera operating? And I was like, oh my god. I'm going to be the next Christopher Nolan tomorrow. I feel you. I sent over my director's reel, and they were just really shocked by how good it was, I guess. That's what they said. Oh, they were like, does anyone know how to use a Blackmagic pocket cinema camera? And that's the one I used. There you go. Yes. So when I got that gig immediately, I was so, so excited. I was in my G7 class, and I was like, oh, my God, dude. I got camera operators. It was the craziest thing. Oh, I bet. I have a friend named Colin who's a freshman right now. And I see a lot of me in him, whereas every time anything somewhat cool happens, he's so excited. And that was me freshman year. Yeah. He's so enthusiastic about every little film-related thing. Christopher Nolan does a post, and he reposts it, something like that. And it's just that energy. I really, really love that energy, and that was what I had freshman year. I hear Second AC, and I'm like, oh, my God, I need a Second AC. Every upperclassman, I just viewed them as like, like a heavenly figure. Yeah. They're kind of like gods who
SPEAKER_02:are looking down upon us and
SPEAKER_01:we're trying to catch up. Yeah. So sick. I was trying to get every single gig possible. I got two, two AC gigs, like for the same weekend. I'm like, but which one do I pick? I need to do the second AC thing. And it was like, and I was so intimidated to first AC. I was so intimidated to script supervision. Cause I was like, what is that? Like, I'm, I'm gonna screw it up. I was like, I couldn't do it. And I remember the first time I even slated, I was just like nervous to say the number. I said the number, like, my head so many time like seen one take one mark or something I've said it so many times before I actually did it and yeah fast forward now I'm like just old
SPEAKER_02:better attack same I feel that way too I mean gosh I mean it's so strange sort of looking back onto freshman year and even sophomore year just that kind of energy where you're really just soaking everything in like you said you know you're so excited about another set because you get to and another part of being on set is meeting people and once you meet someone they kind of can recommend you to some other set this happened to me on diving to the blue actually or it was something else that was right after that i think um and that's how i got to know justin um who i just produce a film for, and that's how we got connected. So it's really this space where, and then that's something I also really quickly learned, I'm sure you did as well, is how small this world can be because you you know every time after set I think there's this session of where people just ask each other's Instagram and try to get connected and then after a while you kind of see oh so you know this person you know that person and then they're like oh I've yeah I've worked with him or her on this set before and that's how we knew each other and it's happened so frequently that to this day I think that's one of the most wonderful things about at least on our level you know when we're trying to pull a film together we kind of have the same
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_02:there's a lot of people but same groups where there's somebody always knows somebody else and there's some kind of connection being made and I think that's one of the most wonderful things about student productions on our level where or even you know commercial level people know each other and I think that's such a strong vibe and it's so important to have that community
SPEAKER_01:And it's crazy because I don't think I remember the last time I tried to follow someone on Instagram who's in film who I didn't have mutuals with. Like I met a few new people on my internship this week and I have mutuals with all of them. And I was like, wow, like that's crazy. Like no matter who, unless they have like 10 followers, then it's like a little harder, but it's such a small world. And yeah, no, it's crazy. And I think my freshman year, I mean, outside of film, I was also like, Pushing myself to do everything. Except... Absolutely. Partying, actually, it's funny. Because I... Yeah. Basically went to, like, one or two parties my whole freshman year. I barely went to any parties in college. Really? Which is kind of just my personality. Yeah. I don't really...
SPEAKER_02:That's definitely not for everyone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right? Yeah. But I remember I was just, like, so driven. I think all those years. Oh, yeah. I could tell. I wanted to do everything, you know? Right. And, I don't know, at some point, you know... I feel like I still am, but I'm shifting my focus offset to more developmental stuff, writing stuff, and directing myself. Same, same. And I could see that shift in my DMs too, where people don't really ask me to grip anymore.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. People don't ask me to boom up anymore after a bit, just because I don't do it. And then there's a couple times during my junior year. Yeah. people still reach out to me and be like, Hey, I heard you boomed off on the set. Would you be down to do this? I'm like, probably not, man. I mean, unless it's a paid gig, I don't think I want to spend, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or that. And I don't want to, you know, spend a whole day just holding up. It's important. No disrespect, but you know,
SPEAKER_01:you know our passion at some point has changed yeah and that's happens to everybody and it doesn't happen to everyone and it's funny because like yeah i know most of my friends now they don't really like to be on set like at all really too much anymore yeah like all my people in my cohort and i get it you know
SPEAKER_02:i think at some point it's not about being on set i think at some point it's about getting to the core of your story and your characters and I mean, I think, I mean, if you're not, you know, a writer or director, if you're more focused on DP, then maybe that's a different story. But at some point I think it's about honing your craft offset, you know, living life, experiencing things, writing them down, finding inspiration from everywhere. Um, and then, and then going back on set to learn the technical and craft aspects of it, because obviously that's important, but yeah, At some point, you know, yeah, you are really just trying to develop your own projects or, you know, be more, say, above the line, you know, producing, DPing, directing, writing, you know. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:it's funny sometimes when I go on a set and I'm like first AC or something people are shocked They're like why are you first AC? I'm like, why can't I first AC? Yeah, you know, it's like and they were shocked It was my first time first AC too because I was scared of first AC for so long But then I learned how to use the nucleus. Yeah, I love using that nucleus. Yeah, it's pretty satisfying Yeah, yeah, it's a video game.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, it is a video
SPEAKER_01:game What do you what are some memorable professors or classes you've taken over this? in the last few years at USC? Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:I really enjoyed Hitchcock class.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, wow, okay. Film
SPEAKER_02:studies. It dives into the auteur's sort of filmography and how influential it was. I think Hitchcock was someone who I always, for some reason, never really got into. I think part of the reason is because of how, I guess you could say, how... old it is compared to some of the other movies that might inspire us. I don't know, I think movies I was into, I think the earlier ones were probably in the 70s and 80s, probably that's as far back as I allow myself to watch stuff. But I think I kind of just forced myself to learn about Hitchcock and how he influenced filmmakers today. Because you hear his name everywhere. Bon Jovi pays a homage to him in Parasite. And that's just one of like hundreds, if not thousands of examples. And that really got me into learning how much today's filmmakers and your favorite movie directors rely on a lot of the storytelling techniques and form and style and everything from him. Look at Anatomy of a Fall. You look at a lot of Jane Campion's movies, Christopher Nolan's movies, even Mission Impossible. You know, the thriller story and all that. Suspense building. A lot of it is from Hitchcock. A lot of it is from North by Northwest. A lot of it is from Vertigo. You look at the substance. There's literally a score in that movie that is straight up from Vertigo. And it's a moment that remnants. I won't spoil it here, but you see it everywhere. It's everywhere. And that's how I think eye-opening some of the film studies classes are. You realize how much history and how much... influence some of the old masters really do have on today's filmmakers and i think it allowed me to sort of accept and open myself up to more different forms of of of cinema in terms of time in terms of region country form you know documentary experimental from wherever and that's something that Martin Scorsese also champions you know he sort of forces himself to watch stuff that he might not instinctually want to watch just to be inspired and see what other filmmakers are doing. So that was one. And then I think the other class that I really enjoyed was 290. Oh, yes, the production class. Yeah, production class. You took it last year. For me, it was, oh my gosh, I mean, I kind of thought of it at that time and still think of it as the most sort of free form of filmmaking at USC in the sense that there's not a lot at stake in you have a little camera and you just film a movie with your friends and whoever you can pull together you just do it there's no there's not a lot of you know it's not as big as a 310 which is the junior thesis class it's not as big as 480 obviously which is a senior thesis class and it really allowed me to have this sort of freedom to explore and do things i haven't done before so for the three films which we were supposed to make throughout the semester First one, it was something I've never made before. It was sort of this montage-y Edgar Wright kind of movie where I was trying to imitate his visual style. Second one was heavily inspired by this Chinese movie called In the Heat of the Sun. Again, kind of imitation, but infusing some kind of personal perspective to it. It was probably the most personal film I made in that class, maybe ever. And then the third one I made was sort of an imitation on Richard Linklater. It was this sort of contained story. So a lot of it is about trying different things out and seeing what I can do with my camera that I've never done before. So that was definitely one of my favorites because it doesn't have the burden of like, we invested so much time and money into this one thing and everything has to come together for it to all work. And instead it was all about, you know, it kind of goes back to the run and gun idea when you're first starting out is you have someone working the camera and it's you and it's the sound recordist maybe. Yeah. And you just go ahead and make it, but on a slightly more professional level because you have friends who can help you out. You have the theater school students who are actors or aspiring actors. That doesn't really come along that easily when you're in high school or Wyoming. So I would say those two were the most influential classes that I took here. What about you?
SPEAKER_01:yeah i mean i took so many production classes it was really slow at the beginning to be honest like we first first semester freshman year we didn't really do any production it was mostly just analysis and general education stuff yeah it's so boring to be honest i wish we jumped in there more but the first production class i took was 285 with uh our professor who's ben hansford he's the coolest guy he's super big into ai and that class kind of showed me why usc was such a cool place because they had access to some of the most advanced like ai technology yeah beta tests that they let us use and but the whole class we shot on iphone some people you know sneakily use their cameras i'm not gonna say who but um whatever and Yeah, it was such a great class. And then I took 290 the semester after, which is the one you were talking about. I really took what you said to heart, which was just experiment, play around. Absolutely. Do what you normally don't do. Exactly. But I also wanted to put a lot of effort into them, too, because I didn't want to just like. Half as it, yeah. Yeah. Full commitment. If I want to make a movie, I might as well just like really try to make something as best I could. First film I made was about a guy daydreaming, or not dreaming, a guy having a nightmare about his roommate, which was a direct recreation of my dream that I had. Wow. I woke up from that dream. Very Lynchian of you. No, it was crazy because I woke up from that dream and I was like, I know I have to make exactly that dream into a movie. Yeah. That's what I did. Obviously, the characters are all different in the real dream and then the next movie I made a the tongue movie it's all my yeah yeah that was a movie because my bike got stolen and I was like that's a personal
SPEAKER_02:angle into the story
SPEAKER_01:right and then the third one who is football players versus musicians as a musical and newer it's getting finished I got the score two-thirds of it done and show you afterwards but yeah take the field and then I took another class after that called 294 which I made a movie about a city of clay things yeah very
SPEAKER_02:again very
SPEAKER_01:experimental experimental but also put a lot of work into it yeah called City of Meat it's on my YouTube channel and then 310 after that which I made the Melodies of War which is the World War 2 movie so as you can see like all these movies I do try to go experimental with it just doing as much as I could but also trying to keep it like more as professional as I could with these films like try to really put a lot of work into it you really don't have to but i just thought you know i could die any day and that's a good mindset yeah if that's the last movie i want to make that's going to be something i'm proud of yeah live life with a little bit more urgency yeah exactly yeah i actually heard that uh idea from one of my classmates who i'm gonna bring on next week octavian yeah and he can speak more on his philosophy yeah on filmmaking but yeah i know it was like definitely something i care a lot about just like making something as best you could every time yeah and i want to hear what are there some fun outside of film moments that you see that you experienced oh wow you you'd be going to the club sometimes i do i did
SPEAKER_02:party a lot freshman year right because i think it was an opportunity for me to open up and i was told to get out of my two things from mentors teachers you know peers whatever one is get out of your comfort zone challenge yourself do things that make you a little bit uncomfortable and then number two is to find your people so the way i did the first one was to just get go to parties i followed my freshman year roommate who went to parties a lot and I kind of just went along wherever he went. It was great. It was awesome. It was a great way to open myself up because I did not go to a lot of parties in high school. I mean, even the dances or whatever events we had, I tried to avoid them. I was very introverted. I was very, very... I kept to myself pretty much 24-7. I was locked in on academics. Had no... real energy or attention paid to, you know, my social life. So I'll say outside of film, that was definitely a big part of it my freshman year. I joined the ping pong club for two months.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my God, not the ping pong club.
SPEAKER_02:Before I quit. The ping pong posse. The ping pong posse, yeah. That's what they call them. And then I quit after, I think, two months because I wasn't really good. People were way too good
SPEAKER_01:in that club. I thought I was good. I also tried to join. Funny story. they were i don't know i showed up with my friend jerry
SPEAKER_02:yeah
SPEAKER_01:and we were just like playing and they were like you got to pay i'm like oh
SPEAKER_02:yeah that was a part of it too
SPEAKER_01:yeah and i was like well let me see if i even wanted to do this club thing you know at least let me play once yeah where's the free trial at yeah not 30 days maybe one hour you know and we were just playing the the club president or some guy just came up and just took my paddle i was like Dude, what? That's crazy. That didn't happen to me. And I was like, well, why would I join a club where, first of all, they treat you like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And second, I don't even know if I want to really do ping pong like that. I want to see how the club works. So I never came back. My main reason was I just wasn't good. I just quit.
SPEAKER_02:We should play sometimes just together. It would be fun, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, we can play tennis or
SPEAKER_02:pickleball. Tennis, yeah. Tennis was something I picked up in college, too. I was playing with you and some other friends.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I would love to. Justin plays tennis. Yeah, Justin does. Kai is really good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I've heard he's pretty good.
SPEAKER_01:And he also does videography. He's videography for the Bengals now. Yeah, which is huge, right? NFL, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Good for him. He's into that, and that's a great career path.
SPEAKER_01:He's a genuinely nice person. Super cool guy.
SPEAKER_02:I think freshman year was about casting a wide net of everyone, trying to just soak it all in. And then sophomore year was about sort of focusing on, because then you've already learned what this school is about and what this town is about. And so then it becomes a question of how do you best spend your time and, you know, maximize your, the things you've learned. And I think that I kind of just cut out a lot of quote-unquote like extracurricular stuff that I did. I was pretty much fully dedicated to filmmaking. Right, no, me too, yeah. I didn't really join. I mean, I went to the beach a lot. I tried surfing. Oh. Once. Wow. Didn't stand up. Wasn't able to stand up. But it was fun. It felt like I was flying. That's so
SPEAKER_01:funny.
SPEAKER_02:That was freshman year too. So I did try a lot of things freshman year. But you got skiing. That was your dream. Skiing was fun. Yeah, skiing. Skiing and then going to, you know, field trips and hikes. I picked up hiking a little bit. Helping to do more. So yeah, those are some of the things I do outside of film. But film can take a long, a lot of time out of you. It does, yeah. a lot of sometimes you just have to sacrifice
SPEAKER_01:you know i highly recommend high college students to really find stuff outside of their major to do yeah yeah absolutely especially like for health too it's like you want to find some activities that get you moving a little bit it's a for me i really i like playing flag football yeah that's right um or you just go in the gym i think it's so important yeah going to the gym developing a passion and like really Doing outside of film that you fit and like healthy. Yeah, it's important.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I've been running I've been just running every morning trying to
SPEAKER_01:Wow good good Do you run on the street or on the treadmill
SPEAKER_02:on the street treadmill both?
SPEAKER_01:Very daring person you're brave for running on the street. I know
SPEAKER_02:it's the it's not very flat and Also, it's just not the best place I guess to run. Yeah, but uh rowing I did rowing in high school and oh wow and so sometimes i go to the uh the gym to on the erg do
SPEAKER_01:you try to apply to the usc rowing team like
SPEAKER_02:i looked at it uh and i just realized that that's first of all too much of a commitment yeah and two everyone was like bigger and taller and stronger and bigger than me and i just didn't feel like if i wanted to do filmmaking why did i you know why do i and that's even just a club level right like it wasn't really competitive it was just come drawing, have fun, but it's not really. It's 6 a.m. every other day. Go to the boat, row. I did kind of something like that in high school. It was every afternoon, but was not a fan of it in many ways. It was a really great way to sort of build sportsmanship, to build teamwork, to build resilience and grit and make your body more fit and mentally stronger as well. So that part helped. I guess... A lot of it really was quite challenging and quite difficult. And I just didn't want to do that in college again. But I do still go to the rowing machine and the gym sometimes because it's actually a great way to train and to get fit. And, you know, it's short. You can just do it for 20 minutes or like 10 minute intervals for 30, 40 minutes. Yeah. It can be pretty exhausting.
SPEAKER_01:Dude, I know that athletes at USC aren't allowed to do... They're not allowed to be a film major here.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't actually know that.
SPEAKER_01:I know... That
SPEAKER_02:totally makes sense. 100% makes sense. There's no way you can do 310 and compete in, like, you know, lacrosse or football.
SPEAKER_01:Whatever. No way. Yeah. Because there was a girl who was in my cohort freshman year. Yeah, I think it was freshman year. And she was a... Her name is Yusra, who was on the Olympic team for swimming. Yeah. And they made a Netflix documentary about her. Super nice person. We talked a few times and she was in the film program and she told us she had a pick between a swimming career or a film career. Right. And she chose film. Really respect that. Yeah. And yeah, I know the commitment to film is quite heavy at USC and so rigorous. Yeah. But if you love it, you know, it's really not too hard. It's not as hard as people say. Yeah. What are like, okay, here, let's play a game. It's not really a game. What are three advice you would give students who are applying to film school? What are three advice you would give students who are at film school? What are three advice people you're giving people who can't get, go to film school?
SPEAKER_02:That's great. Yeah. So that's what, Nine pieces of advice.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Here, we can alternate. Alternate, yeah. You'll give one first, I'll give the other one. So let's
SPEAKER_02:start from applying. Applying, yeah. Yeah, number one, don't focus on equipment and focus on your unique self.
SPEAKER_01:Cool. For me, I think it's to... do things in high school way ahead of time to show that you're like a passionate filmmaker, whether it's starting a filmmaking club, whether it's attending film festivals, whether it's, you know, making, building your portfolio, just like preparing ahead of time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Second one for me is do everything in the sense that, you know, you want to do film, but show that you also are curious and passionate about other things, whether it's, you know, debate, whether it's some kind of sport, some kind of extracurricular, you know, community service, research, whatever, you know, something outside of it. I think that, I'm not sure how much emphasis USC puts on it, but I think that's, you know, to show that you're a holistic person and that, you know, you're not, oh my gosh, you know, film is everything to me. I'm dedicating my life to it. Yeah. It's a good mindset to have, but I think, you know, as a high school student, you should have more on your plate. Yeah. Be a more colorful applicant.
UNKNOWN:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:I think advice I would have I really like what you said, by the way. That's exactly what the admissions person told me. It's like, just to be more of a fuller person that's not just a film person. For me, I would also say, like, don't, make sure you're not copying other people, really. Be your own story. There's so many videos out there on, like, what I wrote on my essay, you know, there's so much stuff online. It's like, you know, ask ChadGBT, but it's like, at the end of the day, it's like, that's not what gets you in. You know, the only thing that gets you in is yourself.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:truest most authentic story yeah all right last advice for our high school applicants
SPEAKER_02:get some sleep
SPEAKER_01:don't stress too much
SPEAKER_02:yeah i mean it can be stressful i mean especially because it's such a big point in your life let's say take it easy i mean like you said things work themselves out just do your best um try not to because i think i definitely pushed myself a little too hard when i was a senior in high school you know with applying just to colleges and then covid And everything. It was just a lot. And so I would say, take a step back and really make sure to take care of yourself first.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. My advice would be, if you've made it to the interview part, really do some mock interviews. Practice what you're going to say. Very practical, yeah. There's going to be the standard questions like, why do you like USC? What questions do you have for me? Why are you doing film? So really practice those with someone, with an audience member. Yeah. Cause that's one of the biggest, like last things for the application is the interview. So really take it seriously and prepare for it and just like relax and be yourself for that. All right. So advice for someone who's at USC. Then let's say they are freshmen. Yep. These are questions would be for freshmen.
SPEAKER_02:Um, freshmen
SPEAKER_01:who I was so lost freshman year. I literally asked my friend, I was like, who's an upperclassman. He's a grad student. I was like, does it get easier? because I was so lost in everything. So I'm sure there's so much you can talk about.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think I'll totally pass this advice I mentioned before, but it's to get out of your comfort zone. I mean, this is true for not just film kids. I think college is this great hub of people from different backgrounds and experiences and different interests and passions. And really try to do... stuff that you would normally do you know try things be like a sponge be like water both sponge and water you know you should be you know like bruce lee said be like water you know be flexible try to be a little bit of everyone then also be a sponge that soaks it all up that would be my advice
SPEAKER_01:My first piece of advice would be being independent, being comfortable by yourself. A lot of times, you know, in high school, you're just going with your friends to the gym, going with your friends to eat. But in college, you got to be comfortable going to the gym by yourself. going to the dining hall by yourself buying groceries by yourself um that's huge that's the next step to adulthood i think is that comfortability and not dependent on anyone because you can't depend on anyone really fully so i think it's huge to be comfortable by yourself yeah and you don't like obviously i recommend finding your group of people your friends and build your network but also be comfortable by yourself
SPEAKER_02:i absolutely agree that's something my mom always tells me is in chinese and i can't really say it in english but for in english it's it's something like well say it in chinese heroes can withstand loneliness and the chinese is yeah and i my dad has said that that kind of changed his life and his perspective on things because it kind of implies patience but it also implies that if you have something that you really want to achieve and you really want to do and you have to it part of it it really is about dedicating yourself And sometimes it can be lonely. You know, not everyone will be on board. Not everyone will be there with you, but you have to walk that path anyways. So I think that's, I guess that's my second advice. You know, like you said, going off of you, I think a lot of it is about patience too. It can be grueling or it can be, you know, it can feel a little bit lonely when you say, oh, why am I doing this all by myself when, you know, I see everyone else hanging out. But that's kind of an illusion because everyone has to, right beyond by themselves a lot of time and especially when you're out of college a lot of the community doesn't come with you
SPEAKER_01:so i think a huge thing this is not the second piece of advice but just going off what you have to say like fomo is real but oh my gosh you have to get over that yeah get over fomo like you see people partying like don't have that urge to feel bad. Because at the end of the day, we're on different paths. You see someone doing this, that's fun. Or they invite you to this and you feel obligated to go, but you're not. And that was something I was proud of my freshman year self was everyone's leaving the dorm to go partying. Part of me was like, am I missing out on college? But also I'm just like, I know what I want to do and I'm locked in. And I'm really happy my freshman year roommate, Nansen, he... he was also like one of those non-partiers. Yeah. So we would both stay home and we'd both like just work on ourselves. That's awesome. That's really great. It was nice. You
SPEAKER_02:can always just follow the crowd.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Following the crowd is, you know, you get the idea. It's like you don't want to be the average, you know. Yeah. You want to do your own thing. And, My second piece of advice is staying organized, whether it is your dorm room, keeping everything clean, being more minimalist because you are in college, right? And also whether it's to organize your calendar, your time, organizing your homework or assignments whenever that's due, your projects, huge. It's going to make you way more time efficient.
SPEAKER_02:This is my second or third? Third. This might be your third as well. I'm not sure, but...
SPEAKER_01:I can always change it.
SPEAKER_02:This is something that we talk about a lot and a lot of people feel is don't really compare yourself to others. I think this is a lifelong kind of understanding. I mean, it's really easy to just be in the... mindset of like, oh, I'm not doing enough. Why is that person better than me? Imposter syndrome too. Like, you know, you look at someone who's younger than you or your age and you go, how? Why am I not there yet? You know, what am I doing wrong? And that can be really, that can be poison. And, you know, there's good to the comparison. There's some good to comparison in the sense that you can extract what someone else is doing right and then employ it to your own life and your own pursuit and your own diverse that's the healthy part the unhealthy part is going i'm not there yet then thus you know i'm not as good i'm inferior and that's not the wrong that's not the right mindset to yeah go about especially in film school that's really easy to to do is to see oh this person has you know gotten his film there i haven't and i'm such a loser and i haven't achieved anything that can be really easy to that's a trap and i think both of us have had to deal with that and come overcome it so i think that's my third piece of advice is if you're a freshman and you're in film and you're soaking it all in and there's people on different levels i would say try to keep your feet to the ground and just focus on yourself
SPEAKER_01:yeah i do uh love what you said because freshman year i very distinctly remember many of my friends saying that they had an imposter syndrome because i mean well they just got into the best film school
SPEAKER_02:yeah going from wherever they are yeah to all of a sudden a hub
SPEAKER_01:yeah the best people
SPEAKER_02:arguably the best young filmmakers in the world
SPEAKER_01:yeah and i just like to speak on imposter syndrome it's just like you know a lot of times you chase success But imposter syndrome comes from success. It comes from, you finally are successful now and now you feel bad about it. Whereas this is where I think you gotta chase the process instead of the end goal. Because the end goal can always bring a lot more things you don't want. And I think my third piece of advice is to really think um about the future instead of just letting you yourself flow through the day you know really think about what your next step is what your goals are what you want to do and just don't just go with the flow and just you know carve your own path right yeah for sure i think it's just uh be intentional with the time you spend because really college goes by so fast
SPEAKER_02:absolutely
SPEAKER_01:people say that to me all the time my freshman year and uh the crazy thing is I believe them and there's nothing I can do about it and you
SPEAKER_02:still should believe it because I'm here in my last semester and I can't believe that this is the last what four months I have four months not even four like three and twenty something days
SPEAKER_01:yeah really take advantage of your time in college like it goes by so fast and also bonus advice because I think people need to hear this really take care of yourself get that eight hours of sleep
SPEAKER_02:yes Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. I mean, essential, I would say. I mean, this is an essential skill to build while you're still in this safety net.
SPEAKER_01:You're building the foundation for the rest of your life. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Eat well, sleep well, take care of your mental health. Exercise. Exercise. Hang out with your friends. Don't just, you know, stay in your dorm room and, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Another bonus, don't forget your friends from back home. Don't forget your friends. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, huge. Stay in contact with them. There are three advice for people who, let's say, weren't able to get into film school or don't have the ability to go to film
SPEAKER_02:school. Right, or, yeah, but still want to do film. Yes. My one is probably just don't be embarrassed to cold reach out to people. Actually, I think I pretty much learned this from you. actually i think the idea that i think a lot of it is false the sense that oh people don't want to get back to you you know they're on their high position and you're you know i think it's really important to reach out to people on wherever instagram linkedin youtube and just tell them you know how much you enjoy what they do and that you want to connect and learn from them and maybe build something together i think that my number one advice is that if you know nobody if you have no connection and you want to pursue a career in filmmaking wherever you are there's got to be somebody in your area that does videography that does some kind of video work
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_02:reach out to them see what they know get on top of their projects be involved and then just yeah i would say do that
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah i think uh getting a internship or job in the film related world that's basically like film school but also like i mean definitely different people but you'll learn a lot that you won't learn in film school which is how the business works how the real world works so i think it's very important to build that experience early on at a job. Quentin Tarantino worked at a video store. You can really do anything. On the side, you can be writing, you can be planning your next project, but definitely don't be afraid to jump to the next step, which is adult life at a job.
SPEAKER_02:I think yeah i mean going off of that i think this is something similar i think just build your network oh yeah it's basically the same advice i gave but the idea is that you know
SPEAKER_01:and what are some ways you would build a network outside of film school
SPEAKER_02:i mean again cold reach out to people i think there are there are online kind of communities totally on youtube instagram wherever that celebrates film and you know writers rooms wherever yeah i'm sure there are group chats film festivals film festivals that's a big one attend those and and then in terms of networking i think this is something barry jenkins said actually i watched in the clip earlier um a couple weeks ago where he said that don't just network but also build people around you that can grow with you and this is something that I've been told a lot throughout film school is to sure you want you know you want to know people on the higher ups but ultimately the people who are going to stay with you are the people who are on your level and then bring those people and then grow together I think that's yeah even if you're not in film school grab someone who knows a little bit more about camera than you do maybe you have someone who knows someone who does audio and can record sound for you start a production company That way we know those people. Shoot a commercial for your local coffee shop, whatever, get your, you know, that's how you get started. And then cold email to people and see what advice they can give. I would say that's the big one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think it's just like building your brand. I think branding yourself, like marketing yourself as someone who maybe DPs, you know, you have your reel, you make some spec work for people, you shoot weddings, you shoot photography, or if you're a director, you know, writing your own thing. And just really putting yourself out there because if you don't have the school to bring other people to you, you got to put yourself out there. So I think that's my second advice.
SPEAKER_02:My third one, this applies to kind of everyone, but watch movies. Yeah. know if you're not in film school and you know you probably have a phone that can shoot video great go create you know like we said but i think one of the biggest sources to learn filmmaking is just this cinema there's so much out there so much out there and i don't mean just obviously there's a lot of content on you know youtube whatever and those are great and some of them actually turn into to movies but i would you know again go back to hitchcock go to watch some hitchcock watch some old hollywood and then work your way to the 70s and then 80s work through the classics and then go to the niche films that you don't even hear about in like you know places you know identify your voice in the way that in the sense that you watch movies and you find what you like what you don't like what's somewhere in between and And then eventually you'll be able to go, hey, you know, that's, I keep watching this director's movie or I keep watching this writer's movies. And that's exactly the things that I like to create. And then on top of that, how can I contribute my own voice and make it something fresh? I think that's my biggest advice because there's so much out there and it's hard to narrow down exactly the kind of, like Christopher Nolan movie is so different from a Richard Linklater movie. In terms of scale, in terms of theme, in terms of budget. It's so different. And then by watching movies, you get to figure out over time what kind of movies you like to make.
SPEAKER_01:From my third piece of advice, I do want some people to know, if you belong to the group of people who we're addressing these advice to, know that sometimes maybe not going to film school is the best thing to happen to you. don't feel like just because you can't get in or you don't have the ability to go to film school, there's nothing wrong. 100%. There's nothing wrong with that. A lot of the greatest filmmakers do not go to film school. I do have a lot of friends at the film school who don't think it's that good of a place. Same here. I
SPEAKER_02:know people who aren't in film school and who actually very much dislike the idea of film school
SPEAKER_01:yes so there's people of all perspectives we'll bring them on in future episodes but here is my secret list of getting better at film without film school and i'm just gonna throw everything i know right now yeah so first of all i love what you said about the movies absolutely watch everything yeah all the new releases all the old movies all the classic every oscar winner every sundance winner all the short films on youtube scour the internet for every possible thing you know download a letterbox if you don't have a letterbox oh yeah you know hop on you just gotta organize what you watch and yeah letterbox more intentional with watching movies to um write write write like keep writing uh just write as much as you can try to write a script a month or you know write a feature film write a pilot just really try to write and get better at writing with reps and also be making content constantly if you want to direct like really find actors out there and just like direct them you know don't have to be in film school to direct people you put out an ad on Breakdown find people shoot a little scene that's how you get good at directing and then read a lot of scripts you know understand how the best of the people like they write their screenplays IMDB IMSDB something like that I don't know just really try to write a lot just keep making stuff read a lot of books on filmmaking on storytelling on creativity watch a lot of YouTube videos like mine just keep learning everything live life try to live all experience everything travel is huge yeah You're broadening your perspective. Be talking to people. Have that curiosity out there. Really want to talk to a lot of people and just get their stories. Shoot people's everything. Just be filming. Practice your cinematography. Practice production design. Just make stuff yourself. Make a feature film. Nothing's stopping you. And you have all the time because you don't have to worry about doing general education work or CS classes. That's right. So... Yeah, I hope all these advice were able to help all our listeners. This is towards the end of your film school career. Would you say film school is worth it?
SPEAKER_02:I would say so, absolutely. And I think this is something that the people who are ahead of me, you know, people who have already graduated and when I was a freshman, they were, you know, whatever. The biggest takeaway is the people because one of the hardest things when you're not in film school is to find a close-knit community around you that can help you and grow together and collaborate. That's the biggest part because all the, you know, technical and craft elements, you can find those on YouTube and books and watching movies and slowly you just get a sense of that. But then if you're all by yourself, if you don't, if you have like maybe two to three friends, that's great. But in the long run, you know, you'd want people who are equally as passionate, if not more, and who are skilled at things you might not be great at. So I think it was worth it because of the people that I've met, yourself included. And yeah, gosh, it's the people. Yeah, it's the collaborators. It's the people who have different perspectives. And then I guess another point is obviously the resources in the sense that we do have a lot of great guests. I got to meet Damien Chazelle. I got to meet Chloe Zhao, Sean Baker. These people are kind of my heroes. And it's only by being here that I think I got to meet them. Which is such a privilege. I mean, gosh. If somebody told my 16, 15-year-old self that one day I got to shake Demi Chazelle's hand, got to meet Sean Baker and Chloe Zhao and who else? A lot of other people. I think it would... I wouldn't believe it. So I think, yeah, the people and the resources. I agree, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. It's the collection of the top... talented people of our age range in one place. So much creativity, so much passion between everyone, so much different perspectives when it comes to filmmaking. Some people like to make westerns, some people like to go crazy with the edits. And different
SPEAKER_02:crafts too. Some people really just want a DP, others just want to write. They just focus on the writing and the story part of it. Others really just want to direct. Others just like lighting, others just like editing. It's all very... Diverse.
SPEAKER_01:And yeah, so much talent. And even people who don't advertise with their talent, you can see through the way they think about art. Yeah. It's so unique. I just love working with all these people. Yeah. All right. Well, I mean, I hope this episode has been helpful to everyone. You know, whether it is you are trying to apply to USC film school or some other film school, or you're trying to get the most out of the film school, this is the place for you. And we are going to figure out What's next? You know, after film school, right? Yeah. This is what this film school is part of the first act. And it is the break is what's after school. Yeah. What's the career? What's industry like? Yeah. So stay tuned for more episodes on that.
SPEAKER_02:Stay tuned. All right.
SPEAKER_01:Peace out.
SPEAKER_02:Peace out.