These Super Bowl Doritos Commercial Directors are Changing the Future of Hollywood | Zach and Ryan

Welcome to episode 6 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry. Today, we bring on Zach Shenouda and Ryan Robinson, the director duo who recently had their commercial become top 2 in the world for the Super Bowl Doritos Commercial competition. We chat about their 1000iq marketing strategy, filmmaking journey, and advice for aspiring movie directors.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:41 The Doritos Commercial Competition
• 7:44 Putting a Team Together
• 10:03 Mike Tyson’s Son
• 11:11 Coming up with the project
• 14:07 The Social Media Algorithm
• 17:54 Marketing and Outreach
• 23:42 Future Opportunities from the Commercial
• 24:41 Director Duos
• 28:39 Creative Partnership
• 40:29 Starting Out in Filmmaking
• 49:00 Getting into USC
• 54:31 Orange County Film Festival
• 1:00:09 Coloring and Sound Designing
• 1:14:03 Taking Notes from Producers
• 1:17:32 Arrival of the Trojans & Sports Video
• 1:20:06 Comedy
• 1:24:44 Advice
• 1:30:35 Fav Crash out spot
• 1:32:40 Island question
• 1:33:52 What to have Audiences Take from Their Films?

Transcript

Speaker 05: 0:00

After seeing Mike Tyson repost, if you go to his comments, his comments... Hate our commercial. Did not like the commercial. Don't like our commercial. Yeah, and the views at the end of the day, I don't think actually make any difference in this contest. Views don't mean anything. It came down to not even likes. Probably, what if you're also hungry while your barber has cheesy fingers? The only reasonable outcome is to go

Speaker 03: 0:26

and suck the finger. And now we had a whole army of people in Dorito costumes, and we run around, and honestly, I've never had more confidence wearing a Dorito costume just around campus yelling at people interrupting people

Speaker 05: 0:37

i guess people aren't used to people our age like making things that are actually

Speaker 03: 0:45

good that if i would have won or i would have been like the number one ad out of all the commercials i aired

Speaker 04: 0:54

welcome to the podcast thank you thank you we're excited yeah how would you guys describe yourselves

Speaker 03: 1:01

just in general yeah probably just like hot handsome tall dark i'm

Speaker 02: 1:07

not

Speaker 05: 1:08

talking uh you know just two friends that uh kind of found our way into making movies and um we don't hate each other yet

Speaker 03: 1:17

so we don't hate each other that's a positive we've been working since sophomore year of high school so we would describe ourselves as like weird creative probably shouldn't be touching a camera but somehow we got our hands on one so now we're making our movies and I think that's been super exciting yeah

Speaker 05: 1:33

what's

Speaker 03: 1:33

that quote

Speaker 05: 1:34

from Jughead from Riverdale he's like I'm just I just don't fit in no I'm just

Speaker 04: 1:41

kidding dude you guys recently directed a commercial that was a finalist at the Doritos Super Bowl competition yes it was and you know so many people voted that it was top two in the world and that's just so amazing to hear right and i would love to hear like how did you guys hear about this commercial what like how did you come up with the concept and how did you execute it

Speaker 03: 2:03

yes so since high school ryan i've always wanted to apply for the competition the dorito super bowl competition has been going on since like 2006 it ran through 2016 and he stopped it and they brought it back this year and in high school when it was still around right like we have to apply for this because it was so upper alley and even though we want to make films and movies that we also want to make a super bowl commercial in our future And then you talk about like the email.

Speaker 05: 2:28

Yeah. Then you, since it was like, they took it away in 2016. We're like, oh, okay, well we were planning on doing it in 2017, but that, you know, can't do it. And then out of nowhere, USC sends an email and it's like, by the way, this competition's back. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like we have to get on this. So then I, I have an email chain with Zach and it's just USC email, me forwarding it to him. And I said, oh, Let's go. And he's like, let's go. And that was it. And that's like, we started it. It was just like four words. And we're like, we on the same exact page. And the funniest part was they sent this email on October 15th. 28th or like October 29th some like crazy thing and the final the end of the contest was like November 11th or something no I think 17 17 18 something like it was like we had three weeks to do it pretty much so we just had to get the ball rolling as soon as possible as quick and we were working on like another

Speaker 03: 3:25

project before yeah we were trying to make a short film we totally dropped it we were like yeah we're doing this because we always wanted to do it and also like commercials accessible it's 30 seconds it wasn't going to cost us too much it didn't cost that much. Um, so we, we met up, we came up with the idea on the spot, which is pretty cool. That doesn't always happen. And then we made it, got a team together, shot it over a weekend. We had like a week and a half of like pre-production, just like getting the barbershop together, um, cast crew, et cetera. And then we shot it in like one day. It's like an eight hour day, which is pretty

Speaker 05: 3:58

cool. Yeah.

Speaker 03: 3:58

It

Speaker 05: 3:58

was a tiny day. We were in at, 7 a.m. and we were out by 3

Speaker 03: 4:04

mm-hmm and then we edited in like three days and then I do color he does sound design so that just took care of everything and then we were done and then we submitted it and and the rest is

Speaker 05: 4:15

history. It's, it's, yeah, it was a really fun, fun time.

Speaker 01: 4:19

I'm curious though, like so much of film is prep, but you guys did not have that much time to prep. How did that affect the creative process of like bringing crew on, like coming up with the idea? I mean, how much did you storyboard at all? Oh

Speaker 05: 4:30

yeah, totally for prep. This is the first time we've ever, um, uh, pre did a previs, like we shot the whole thing, um, on our iPhone, just at our house. Um, did that, uh, Twice, because we shot it once, edited it together, watched it, goes, oh man, originally the main character in it, he like reaches with his hand and the barber smacks his hand. He was like, don't touch my Doritos. Like that was like a line in it. And we watched it and showed it to people and they're like, that doesn't work. Like it doesn't make sense. So then we're like, oh my God, it's so simple. He just needs to shove his head back. That's it. And it's like by simplifying that beat, taking away the dialogue, taking away that, it just simplifies it to like that. And the barber continues telling his story. It's more of a character moment. So by doing the storyboard, it completely... Our commercial, I'd say, has three jokes. A beginning, middle, and end. It's first joke, second joke, third joke, fourth joke, maybe ending. It saved our middle by giving us a better

Speaker 03: 5:33

joke. Yeah, because the blocking was just more natural. It didn't seem too comical. It seemed really realistic. And I think, to your question... that less time honestly made us dial in a little bit more. Cause we were never getting done a pre-visualization. We had done a lot of photos. We did like a photo edit too. I forgot about that when we like just grabbed photos on the internet and made an edit too. And I think because we knew we didn't have enough time and that we only had like a couple hours of shooting and a bunch of other things, like we have to get it right, right? Everything has to be perfect. And then in the editing room, it should be super, super simple. Even though we didn't make tweaks in the edit, like, I think because we had less time, we put in way more effort into the prep than we usually do. And that allowed us to like, I mean, shooting was so easy. Oh my, set was

Speaker 05: 6:17

like the best experience. And it was because of the prep. And so much like props to our producers, Joanna Song, Via McBride, Miguel Tyson, because we did all that prep. We get on set, we have eight hours with, I think we had to get like 18 to 20 shots. I think it was like 18, 20 shots in that amount of time. At no point did I ever feel stressed. We had a full hour lunch in the day, maybe a 45-minute lunch. We didn't skimp out. We don't do that. Good lunch is very important. But the producers being so good, getting everything exactly how it needed to be even with that time constraint and with the prep, we still had time to experiment on stuff during the shoot. It's not like we went in with this plan and there was still things that we changed that ended up being, my favorite shot in the whole thing is this completely impromptu thing. It was supposed to be just the camera slides over and we see the third barber over kind of give a reaction. Then it turned into, wait a minute, let's widen this shot. We have the time. Now it's three people doing a reaction and I'm like oh my god what if this like one guy's outside of the shop and looks in the window which was like Teddy our AD was like wait put like this random guy in the window. That would be so funny because we had the time to do it and we had already prepped what we thought we were doing. So it just gave us so much freedom to still have fun on set and try new things.

Speaker 01: 7:39

Yeah, I think that definitely translates into the final product. So yeah, it's so funny, hilarious.

Speaker 04: 7:44

And like you guys had such a great team. Like how did you guys put together this team of producers and everyone

Speaker 03: 7:49

else? So, you know, the story is a black story, right? So we knew immediately like we need like a black producer on the project just so that we were kind of going the right direction and and keeping things on track and whatnot, just to make it the most authentic, culturally representative project that we could. So we got our friend Tracy at first, and she was amazing, but she was super busy because she was working on 480, the senior thesis. So then she's like, I can be an associate producer. And she did so much work for us. So very thankful for Tracy. She's amazing. And then we got our friend Miguel, my girlfriend, Via, and then our really good friend, Joanna. And they just worked so well together. And like, that was like the crew of like people just making the things work. They called like 30, 40 barber shops. And then our friend Zaid, who we've known since high school, he shot it. He did us a huge, huge favor and he made it beautiful. So he put together his team. And then everyone else was USC students in terms of like hair, makeup, costume, Production design was huge. I think that was another thing that we really doubt and we had never really like focused on like having a color palette and whatnot I think it really shows within The final product. It's like okay Doritos is red So we want everything else to be blue to kind of contrast it and like everything that we did It's like alright blue jackets and blue Decorations and stuff like in the Doritos bag is surrounded and it just made it look way more professional.

Speaker 05: 9:15

Yeah. Yeah the So yeah, crew, it's just, everyone was our friend. Like we just knew everyone. I think the only people that ended up being like new in terms of crew, I think the only one was the, who did production sound, which is Eddie. And like, he's super cool. And he was a recommendation from another sound guy. Cause I worked in sound as well. He was awesome. I want it. Like, he's so cool. He made a joke on. So do you remember that? Yeah. And you know, I love the fact that like, He was comfortable enough. He was comfortable enough to, like, after a take, he was like, oh, I was supposed to be rolling on that. And everyone goes silent for a second. He's like, ah, no, I'm just playing. And they're like, you're freaking out. No one knew who he was at first. They're like, he's the boy. As soon as they did it, I'm like, oh, yes. I'm like, this is the guy I want to be working with right now.

Speaker 04: 10:02

Yeah, and you guys said that, because I was on Instagram, like, when you guys were doing the marketing for it, and I saw Mike Tyson posted on his story. Like, that's so sick that, you know, you had, who was the... his relation that was on your set?

Speaker 03: 10:17

So our producer friend, Miguel, who we've known since sophomore year, his dad is Mike. And it's crazy because he is one of the most genuine beautiful people that we know he's just so kind also super talented he's one of the most talented photographers that we know he does like crazy natural geo stuff and now he's like been wanting to step into the film sphere this is the first thing he's ever produced yeah this is the first thing he's ever produced in terms of film I mean he's been on other sets but like in terms of student production he wanted to be on something and I was like come join us. Like I believe in you. He was just so on it. Like he just really helped us and he worked so well with Joanna and via. And I think, um, him also, you know, someone being black just helped us make sure that the barbershop, because the barbershop is such like a, I don't know, just like a cultural like sacred place. Sacred place. They're like, we want to make sure we get it right. So he helped out with that, which is awesome. That's sick.

Speaker 04: 11:11

Yeah. I mean, after you guys posted and it was like the days leading up to the final result, I saw a lot of like news outlets like on Instagram posting about the commercial. And, you know, reading some of the comments, it was like people were surprised with the concept, you know? Yeah. Like what, how did you guys come up with that? Like the concept itself? Yeah, of like him, you know, eating his

Speaker 03: 11:33

food. Okay, yeah. so originally Ryan had pitched because we called and he comes over and we're like trying to come up with ideas I had a

Speaker 05: 11:42

script I wrote a script instantly and I was like here's my pitch and I was just excited. I just got all my ideas out. I wrote a Forrest Gump parody of when he's running across America to get the last Dorito chip, that sort of thing. By the end of it, there's a swarm of people following this guy running after the last Dorito chip. I'm like, oh, that would work if we had $8 million. If we had a ton of money, I could totally do that. Zach was like, well, we can't do that. I'm like, yeah, I just had to get that idea

Speaker 03: 12:13

out. Maybe we'll save it for another day. I was like, well, let's think of something like that. relatable I was like because I wrote a couple things down like everyone goes to the doctors blah blah blah and I was like well everyone gets a haircut so I was like it would be fun to do a barber shop my first idea was like the worst thing is if your barber had cheesy fingers I said that would be the worst thing possible and Ryan's like that's not the worst thing

Speaker 05: 12:33

possible no I'm like there's only one possible outcome what if you're also hungry while your barber has cheesy fingers the only reasonable outcome is to go and suck the finger you have to do it you gotta do it and so once we had that it was just a matter of like putting it in a comedic timing and order and then it got to the point where he sucks the finger and then he goes like man what he freaks out we're like boom commercial done and then we're thinking and we're like oh man but You're going to call it commercials all have a button at the end. Every good commercial has the thing, and then it's like, what's the final punchline, though? It's like, that's not enough. What is the button? What is the thing to do it? And I was like, oh, my God. He gets kicked out. Because at the end of the day, a commercial needs to be a success story, right? Because you've got to get the product. At this point, people are just weirded out. But where's the success? It's like, oh, my gosh. He gets kicked out, and he gets the bag of Doritos. But at what cost? And his hair is buzzed off. Half of it's gone. Yeah. that was like the final button that was like the thing that took the longest was that final joke honestly the rest of it we wrote probably in the matter of five minutes just like once we came up with it it was like this this this done and then an hour or so 30 minutes something like oh this is that's that's what makes the commercial a super bowl commercial in my opinion yeah that's what it really was brings it around yeah

Speaker 04: 13:56

no i mean let's be honest if The other guy didn't have like such a following on Instagram. Like this was definitely like the battery. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it was

Speaker 05: 14:06

so

Speaker 04: 14:07

funny.

Speaker 05: 14:07

You did come down to votes and like, you know, we had so many things going for us, you know, like you said, Mike Tyson reposted and that's a huge amount of votes you would think. But at the end of the day, like I really looked into the numbers of this cause I was so curious cause I was like, I don't do social media, but this is a good time for me to kind of learn and think about it in a different perspective. And I realized, After seeing Mike Tyson repost, if you go to his comments, his comments. hate our commercial. Do not like the commercial. Don't like our commercial. And I realized, oh my gosh, like his fan base is not the type of people who are going to support this commercial. And also, they're not the type of people to go out of their way to, because in order to vote, you have to click a link, type in an email, or scroll down, find us, type in an email, hit vote. That's like so many steps, right? You need what I would consider a dedicated fan base.

Speaker 03: 15:04

And that's like The

Speaker 05: 15:05

other people, so like Zach King and

Speaker 03: 15:07

Halle Berry

Speaker 05: 15:07

and a lot of

Speaker 03: 15:08

the other people in the corner. Hayley Bailey, not Halle Berry. Hayley Bailey. Hayley Bailey, yeah.

Speaker 05: 15:11

And they had, you know, which is like big influencers and big names. And little ones, too. That was the most, yeah. It's these like little ones that, when I say little, we're talking like hundreds of thousands, even tens of thousands. But the thing is, those people are reposting every day. Mike posted twice, I think, and did like a couple story reposts. Right. And, you know. that's super helpful and we had the school post for us too school post I think two times but what you needed was daily reminders from people with dedicated fan bases with thousands of people who are willing to go out of their way tens of thousands even hundreds of thousands that will go out of their way and

Speaker 03: 15:47

you know we don't we don't have that but we did I think we're proud of like the social media campaign that we achieved because when we realized that we were going to be in the top three we looked at because we didn't know officially it was going to be Nate and Dylan for the UFO ones but we knew that they were going to like definitely be in it. And they also had like, I think Dylan has like 5,000 followers, which is like at that time was a combined amount of followers that we had. And then the other guy had like 20,000 followers on Instagram, but like 7 million followers on TikTok. We're like, okay, we need to learn the social media game. So we looked at each other like, we have to become TikTokers. We have to become Instagram. So we were like, here's our game plan. And we honestly made a ton of content to practice that you'll never see ever. And now, and we got it going and we were just surprised, like things got, I mean, The minimum amount of views, I think, looking back at our Instagram videos, is like 15,000 views, which is crazy. That never happened before. But things were getting 100,000 and stuff. And I'm now excited that I don't have to do that anymore. I don't want to be a guy who's looking only at views and whatnot because that's not why we do it. Yeah,

Speaker 05: 16:46

and the views, at the end of the day, I don't think actually make any difference in this contest. Views don't mean anything. It came down to... not even likes probably shares did it because if you're willing to share you have to hit two three buttons that already means you're willing to do more and if you're sharing like mentally doing the math I would say the conversion rate from like a view to a actual vote Talking maybe 1%. I really think it was that small. I think it is really that small of a percentage. It's

Speaker 03: 17:21

been so small. And I think also, like,

Speaker 02: 17:23

I

Speaker 03: 17:24

don't know if you saw, but afterwards, right when the voting closed, that's when our video took off. Like, it got, like, it got reposted on Complex, a bunch of meme pages, like, meme pages that I follow. Kix reposted it. Twitter got 6 million views. TikTok had, like, three. It was just, like... Crazy how much traction it got. We're like, ugh. yeah now like you could have done a little earlier but you know super thankful for it because it's led us to a lot of good things so yeah

Speaker 01: 17:54

yeah yeah talk a little bit about the actual marketing stuff of it because i remember seeing people wearing dorito shirts or even like bigger what are those called like costumes yeah they're like gigantic you know you see them at parties or even just walking down the street talk about like do you guys come up with that idea or was it like members of the team

Speaker 03: 18:10

yeah it was members of the team because we knew i mean kind of going back to what we talked about like we knew we didn't have the social media thing we're learning so we're like okay the one thing that we do have on our competition was our ground game in terms of we have a school we have a college so we're like we're going to utilize that so we came up with like having a booth a voting booth and then the main thing our friend Teddy he just bought an Amazon like Dorito costume he bought like one or two and the first day he ran around and he's like this is working really well so then after the first day we got so many votes so then I ordered seven more and now we had a whole army of people in Dorito costumes and we run around and honestly I never had more confidence wearing a Dorito costume just around campus yelling at people interrupting people but like you just felt fearless and I think it also I don't know about you but it just proved to me like how bad we wanted it and how bad we just want our career just like We're willing to dress up in these costumes. It was like a nine to five job. Like we would start at like 10 in the morning. It was like

Speaker 05: 19:06

nine to 10. It's true. Cause you go out to one night. I remember later on, I think it was the, the Wednesday, the second Wednesday, nine Oh Wednesday, the big, the, you

Speaker 02: 19:15

know, the bar night.

Speaker 05: 19:17

I think we were, it was like started at 9am. We ended at like 2am. Yeah. It was crazy.

Speaker 03: 19:21

And I think, you know, it was just pure adrenaline. Like it was the most fun we had. And when, you know, when we lost, I think we were sad that we lost. It was more of like a, depression of like those are the two craziest weeks of our life and like it was like so high adrenaline you know like coming off that we're good now but it was just so much it was so fun and you know i'll always remember that i think our friends will always remember very thankful for their support because you know my roommates all dressed up as doritos his roommates dressed up as doritos random people wanted to dress up as doritos it's just like we made a dorito movement So it was pretty awesome.

Speaker 04: 19:56

And I remember your girlfriend's in one of my classes. Oh, yeah? And she showed us the class because it was like a marketing class about how to make it in the industry. She showed in that class. And then you also, I think, were talking about it in our cinematography class. And I felt like everyone in the school was talking about it, you know?

Speaker 05: 20:14

I... Truly believe that of the I'm gonna go on the number of undergrads because graduate, you know, not as much at the school But however many undergrads I think there's like let's say 15,000 at this school 17,000. I truly believe 60 to 70 percent of undergrads knew about

Speaker 03: 20:31

these I hadn't heard about it at least because by the by the end of the second week everyone at least every other person because before the first week we're yelling at people like I don't know what this is what is this what is this and like stop talking to me you're weird by the end of the second week people are like Dorito guys I voted I know about this and it was like every other person which is pretty crazy and like a ton of people we had never met before like I just sent this to my whole family group chat I was like I have no relation with you but this is so awesome like thank you so it was so trippy so I think you know it was cool to see how many people supported us and not just like oh just because you're USC students were supporting you, they liked the ad. I think that was really validating too. The

Speaker 05: 21:12

funniest thing that kept happening is people would come up and we had QR codes on these posters because it would take them to the thing and we're like, go find Barbershop, vote for it. Or then if they seemed weird about it, just watch them all. Just watch them all and pick the best one. Every single time, people picked ours. And this is what would happen every time. They'd be like, ours is Barbershop, and they'd watch. They'd be with a group of friends, and they're being all nonchalant about it. And then the commercial plays, and they're laughing. And then one of their friends is off to the side, all shy, not doing anything. And they turn to the friend, like, oh my god, come over, come over. They're like, it's actually good. It's actually good. And hearing, it's actually good, It made me think, I guess people aren't used to people our age making things that are actually good. It even came up when we went on KTLA 5. We went on the news and we were at the desk and they were asking us. A question that was asked was, is this the normal approach? like, standard for college kids? Is this, like, what the level that people are making at USC? And it was, like, an interesting question because I do believe that it is from a, like, creative potential and I just don't think it's necessarily always reflected because of the limitations that, you know, you have within school from all these different things, you know? But, like, you know, It was weird kind of hearing that from students. Oh, it's actually good. They're shocked. I'm like, oh, I hope this standard rises for student filmmaking to be big and feel professional because it can. I mean, getting into budget. For the longest time, we couldn't talk about budget, but it's done now. So the thing costs $2,500 to make. Oh,

Speaker 04: 22:52

wow. That's so

Speaker 05: 22:54

nice.

Speaker 03: 22:55

Obviously, we had a lot of favors to pull, but we made it work. Our producers, they made it work. But I mean, it was self-funded. Brian and I said... Originally, we tried to do 1,000 or 1,200. That wasn't going to work. We had to bump it up a little bit. That's just from us, from out of pocket, from us working as hard as we can through color stuff and sound stuff. Anyone who

Speaker 05: 23:18

knows about making movies or commercials, this is an expensive commercial. If any company was delivered this or... paid to get this made, I truly believe, I mean, this thing's upwards of $100,000, $200,000. It's an expensive commercial to make just from a production

Speaker 03: 23:36

standpoint. And if you add stars and stuff, it could be a couple millions. It depends. Totally.

Speaker 04: 23:41

That's so sick. And seeing the buzz that this generated was great. And what was the opportunities this led you guys to afterwards?

Speaker 03: 23:51

Yeah, we've been super blessed. I feel like we've gotten two types of opportunities. One through the ad space and then one through the narrative space. Honestly, as of now, a little bit more on the narrative space, which has been kind of cool. From the ad space, we got reached out by Manscaped, so hopefully we're gonna be working with them. We don't know what yet. So hopefully something with them, which would be really cool, because we love their brand, and it's so up our alley in terms of comedy and whatnot. They're so funny, and the

Speaker 05: 24:16

people we met there, they're such down-to-earth, cool people. We'd just love to work with them. That would be so fun.

Speaker 03: 24:22

And then another production company that's done a couple cool things, they've reached out and they want to work with us. Main thing from the narrative standpoint, we have a couple agencies looking at us. The main one is UTA, so potentially... We'll see what happens with that. That's amazing. It's been pretty cool. So we're trying to get representation as a duo, as a writer-director duo. It's hard to get represented as a duo. And I think it's tricky. But we also believe since we've been working together for so long, that hopefully kind of shows that it's not like we just did this one course. We have a whole body of work together. So we're trying to get representation because I think that will allow us to be taken more seriously by bigger studios and whatnot because we're ready to get to the next level.

Unknown: 25:01

Yeah.

Speaker 04: 25:01

absolutely you know i'm actually interning for a director duo right now oh sick um do you know matt and tyler of radio silence so they made the new scream movies oh ready or not abigail oh yeah so they're like this duo of directors who just like one is more focused on actors and one's focused on cameras and they're just making all these things together and it's like it's sick i love that and i think you know they're i heard they were at a dga court trying to fight for the credits of director duos and i think in the future there's gonna be a lot more director duos and

Speaker 05: 25:34

yeah I think they're looked at like in a weird lens you know I think especially with like the Daniels who is at least For us, it's our biggest influence. I love the Daniels. Ever since 2015, they made this short called Interesting Ball, which everyone should watch because it genuinely changed the way I thought about movies and comedy and dark comedy and films. It's really weird, but you can see how that turned into everything ever all at once. And how they, I think, have hopefully opened up the door a little bit. Now with whoever did Talk to Me, I forget their name, the brothers. The Rocker Rockators. Yeah. Yeah. Them. They're. Them. And now you said Matt and Ty. Like all these things are opening up and becoming more common. And I hope people don't. The one thing I am worried about is that people are going to start intentionally trying to force themselves into a duo. Yeah. If that happens. Like from my. I think it is so much harder to be in a duo. Yes. I mean as we've still. You know we've made our own. Plenty of our own projects. Me. Him. You know with our thesis film. The junior thesis and all this stuff.

Unknown: 26:41

Yeah.

Speaker 05: 26:41

They're just, it's so much easier to make a film by yourself. Like it really is. Because no one's telling you you're wrong. We just tell each other we're wrong all the

Speaker 03: 26:50

time. All the time. That's all we do. But you know what's interesting is like everyone, like some of the best filmmakers all have some type of creative partner. Everyone has a creative partner. Whether that's like a writing partner, a producing partner. we're just a directing duo, right? But everyone has it because you need that other person to bounce off because one person's just not enough. And even like the best people that you can think of all have one person at least. Yes.

Unknown: 27:14

Yeah.

Speaker 05: 27:14

Yeah, there's so many examples of it. I mean, who's the brothers who did Good Time? Safdie Brothers. They have a writer, I think a writer-editor partner. I forget his name, but there's a third one of that. You look at Luca right now. He has his writing partner. The one who wrote Challengers now has written, wrote Queer and also wrote now this other one coming out with Andrew Garfield, Neo Debris. I forget the names of all these movies, but everyone has that partner and we just happened to find it in a direct Acting. partnership because we're both stubborn no but like you know it could that's just how it how it kind of unfolded since high school

Speaker 03: 27:52

and it just worked I mean I think you know on set it works and in the editing room it really works I think that's where honestly we pride ourselves in like we're proud that we run a good set but like in post productions where we shine because I think we understand it the best

Speaker 05: 28:04

and for like narrative our you know we've had Charlie who is my roommate who I've talked about Charles Weinstein he is like our editor because you know it didn't think didn't pan out when it came to this commercial because of time he wasn't able to help us out but like for every future thing like he is our guy because he's such that third person just being able to come in and be like well have you thought about this oh my gosh that just opened up and he's a genius as well genius director writer like he's brilliant and everyone needs to remember that name because he's gonna be so famous like he's killer yeah

Speaker 01: 28:39

I'm curious like how do you guys bounce ideas off of each other and when there's like creative conflicts like I said you guys are stubborn maybe you have one idea and then you have an idea that's complete opposite how do you guys find maybe a middle ground or maybe sometimes even reconcile and be like hey you know what you have the right idea here let me take a step back like how do you guys balance that in general

Speaker 03: 28:59

I think it's been learning about like you know I mean it's hard I mean it's hard we're humans right it's just like you know, we both have an ego, right? We're both super egotistical, but we're learning as like best idea wins because at the end of the day, like a film, it doesn't matter how good it looks, what type of actors you have. At the end of the day, if it's not a good story, everyone's going to check out. Like every single person will check out. So I think focusing on like making that a priority, like we just like, I think what's kind of like happened and we talked about is like somehow I'll usually bring in like a basic concept, like a bigger concept. I'm like, what do you think, Ryan? And Ryan's like, this is awesome. This is how like, then he gets more niche. And then he throws it back to me and then I'll like fine tune it. And I think we just kind of keep ping pong and going back and forth until we get into like a solid thing. But I would say usually I come up with like a broader concept and then Ryan really like narrows it down. Can you correct me if I'm

Speaker 05: 29:48

wrong? No, yeah, 100%. That's typically been the way it works And now going into features, it's the same exact way. And also, what's really funny is we've gotten to one fight. Ever. Like an actual fight.

Speaker 03: 30:04

We argue all the time. Yeah, like

Speaker 05: 30:06

an actual fight and it lasted probably 30 to 45 minutes and it was freshman year when we were making a film of ours at the end of the semester. It was called Please Hold which was also made with our friend Teddy Nissen who's, you know, he's super talented. Awesome writer, director, everything. He does everything. And so we got in like one fight and since then I'm just like Like. You know, we just don't do that. I mean, whenever we have, you know, we have disagreements, I say, we always say no. We never say yes to, like, the first idea. And we're so blunt. If we have a bad idea, I go,

Speaker 03: 30:45

love it, bad idea, put it in the trash. We also know when we are both on the same page and excited, we found something. Like, it's, like, very clear, like, that is the best idea because we're both like, ah. Just feel it. Just feel it. Because, like, when you don't feel it, and you throw an idea, and Ryan's like, eh. And if Ryan throws an idea, and I'm like, eh. We know that there is something inherently wrong, and we don't know what it is yet. I think more we just get frustrated, not at each other, but it's like, we can't figure it out. That's what it is. We can't figure it out. But then once we figure it out, we're excited. I think we really got to test out our chops with writing a feature, because we realized all these opportunities are coming. We got to start making stuff. So I had a film idea, and it wrote the first act. draft I was like boom I was like Ryan here Ryan's like this is great has great legs however you need to do like he gave one big idea and I was like

Speaker 05: 31:41

I read it and I was like this is great but the second act just falls apart at the midpoint it like dies the whole movie just died so I was like okay revamp the whole thing go back to page 40 erase everything

Speaker 03: 31:53

after usually you'd be like you know I feel like it was not personal no not personal I'd be like no I put so much I deleted all 70 pages that I wrote and I restarted. I just listened. I was like, he has a good point. I like his idea. It's not personal. We just want to make the best thing possible. Rewrote it. And then I gave him again. And then because originally he was going to rewrite it, but he was on 480. And then he kind of rewrote the third thing. So it's like, you know, again, we just know that we're trying to make the best thing and there's no personal. We just want to make something cool.

Speaker 04: 32:25

Yeah. like how do you spread the work like amongst each other you know on whether on set or pre-production uh

Speaker 05: 32:31

sets we i don't really know how we are on set i've tried to ask people because when you're on set i'm not self-aware at all like i'm just so in what i'm doing whenever i see videos of myself on set i cringe like there was a video that was in one of the campaign videos we did where i'm like looking at monitor i'm like doing this with my hair and zach is like seeing the phone and he's like yeah yeah and i'm like like we do a take and like the take was perfect it's the one we use in the film I go and Zach is like cheering you know and it's just how we are differently I don't know like I think Zach is usually the like say on set right if we're directing he is typically he sets the scene like he's the one who lets people know what this like broad kind of thing like we said big broad guy and then as a take goes on I think I'm the one more focused on making like tweaks. I like details. I like tweaks. I like moments. The whole broad thing He can take care of that. I really think so. And I think by focusing on those things, it's a lot easier to not miss anything. We know we're getting the things we

Speaker 03: 33:46

want out of it. Because it's good to have both, right? The broad, you need it to actually understand the story. But if you don't have the specifics, then it's a boring movie. But if it's just the specifics about the broad, then you have no idea what's going on. It's interesting, but it's like, what is going on? So I think it balances out. And then I would say pre-production... It's just random. And then post-production, what it's usually been, now that it's nice that we have an editor, because before we used to edit our own stuff and it would be like, kind of, I would do the general first edit. I'd be the broad edit. Then Ryan would do the more niche edit. We would go back and forth. Now that we have an editor, it's been really interesting. I think a great exercise in learning how to edit without touching the computer and I think it's so important for every director to do that the best directors are the best editors so I think like you need to know how to edit but you need to also learn how to communicate because like you know it's so tempting when Charlie is like editing we have an idea and I just want to like get on the keyboard and like well if you do this and like every once in a while we do it because we're not trained yet but we're getting better I don't

Speaker 05: 34:42

know if maybe you experienced this with like doing junior thesis because it's your first time editing something for someone and depending I was very fortunate I had the best 310 my trio was killer right and you know they were very kind in how they communicated but I you know you look around and you witness things where someone's like just like a frame a frame back no frame back a frame and it's like I could never do that like say that that's just like not there's no point because a frame is not what you're looking for, it's a feeling, you know, that you're trying to do and you're not going to get any feeling out of being surgical and

Speaker 03: 35:15

robotic. And you can, you know, you can do that at like the very, very end. But if you do that in the beginning, like it's like, it's over, it's over, it's over. The movie's over. You have to be able to trust, you know, your people that you're working with.

Speaker 01: 35:26

Yeah, going off of that, like how do you build that trust with each other and also your other collaborators? Like you go with the specifics and you're more in the general aspect. How do you let go of worrying about the specifics or how do you go about letting go of the general bigger vision and just really focus on the details? I

Speaker 03: 35:42

think it's time and it's also just like we know each other that we will give 120% everything that we ask of each other. And I think like knowing that, like I know like when I give a script to Ryan I don't need to like, obviously I'll look at it eventually, but if you want to give it to someone, I don't need to look at it again. Cause I know he's going to do everything in his power to make it as good as possible. And I think that's what the people that you work with too. It's like how passionate are the people that you're working with? That is the trust that you're going to have. Because like, as long as you know that they're doing everything you can and you like their style and whatnot, that's all you can ask for. Cause like, we know that we can't shoot and we can't do everything. I think we just know like the people that we surround ourselves with are the best at it. And like they, they're passionate about it. So we're just going to let them do their thing. We're not going to try to step on their

Speaker 05: 36:26

toes. And as you know, I'm sure you guys as well probably started being the every man when it came, you know, you did everything on all your projects, right? That's my assumption. That's how I think a lot of people start with film and that's how we were. And you know, regardless of his methods, there's a lot of, like, a lot of people have talked about, like, David Fincher, for example, right? Like, I love his movies. I disagree with the fact that he does all these, like, crazy amounts of takes and all that stuff. But, like, you know, the one thing I really appreciate about, I've seen, like, documentaries behind the scenes of, like, The Social Network, which is such a great behind-the-scenes doc. But, like, there are always characters, the people in the movie, they're talking about heads of the department. They're like, you know, David Fincher could take my job right now. You know? And I'm like, that's an interesting thought. They're, like, exaggerating, but... Everyone we work with, like, they... I know for a fact that they do their job better than we can. And that's because we love their work. Our DP, Zaid, I could never do what he's doing. Who am I to step on him? Sometimes I joke with him because we have good rapport. I'm like, oh, Zaid's looking a little commercially in this. We need to joke around, but Zaid gets it because we have a good relationship. And just like our editor, Chuck, I know he has incredible taste. So it's like when he's doing something and he makes a decision, I might not like it at first, but I'm like, you know, he's thinking about this like other part and it's just, you know, working with people that you know, you love their work as well and you hope they love your work. So it's like this mutual, like symbiotic, like thing because you never want to be like worried about like, if at any point you're thinking you can do someone else's job better than them.

Speaker 02: 38:11

Yeah. you know

Speaker 05: 38:14

you're you're you're set up for like a real not even done but it's it's hard because then you lose the trust when you lose it's like any relationship you know without trust there's nothing it's the foundation of everything so if you lose that trust on set everything is going to fall apart and it's really hard to move

Speaker 03: 38:32

forward and i would say like trust is so important with your confidence i think 80 of directing i would say is just being confident yeah right because like You're the captain of the ship. The moment that someone sees that you're breaking, then the whole ship's going down, right? So it's like having a good poker face, but also one, when things are going wrong, shoving it in and be like, okay, I'm just gonna, everything's fine, right? But

Speaker 05: 38:56

also like- Any decision is like, even if it's the wrong, the wrong decision can be better than no

Speaker 03: 39:01

decision. And then it's being just confident in like your decisions is going to make you a better director but also just being confident in your crew right and having that trust is going to allow you to be a better director because then you're not you know oh well I don't know it's just like boom I want this this that I think that's why because the amount of prep that we did on the Doritos commercial like we were so confident on set and we like knew exactly what we wanted we had fun because like we had a vision everyone knew on set like what they were doing and I think that allowed us just to like come in with like a I don't know we just came in with a rapport and like ready to go

Speaker 04: 39:34

yeah dude I love what you said earlier about like finding people that are better than what you do and you pointed out Ethan Chu on that slate earlier yes that was the first like actual film where I had a dedicated DP because I would always direct and DP and I he was the producer on that film actually yeah yeah yeah and he told me that same thing he's like you gotta find people that are better than what you do in those departments and then I reached out to Ethan Chu because he was um there's the all-american high school film festival and his film beat my film yeah one year so i dm'd him like years i hate you and i was like oh no i was like trying to ask like how do you do what you do and then years later i'm like reaching out again i'm like hey i i'm at usc now like do you want to work on something together and then you know he is such a good dp and does such a good job better than what i could do so i love what you said with that and speaking of like you know starting out and beginning your film careers like how do did you guys start out

Speaker 03: 40:35

you know I started with yeah Lego stop motion was my first thing so I started making like Lego stop motion on my this little camera and I would just take a bunch of photos and I play it back really really quickly and I'm like things are moving I thought it was the coolest thing and my parents were hoping it was just gonna be a hobby but I just kept finding myself doing like honey he's touching the Legos again yeah he's doing the Legos again and then like I was I had my iPod 4 and I downloaded action movie effects and I was making things explode and my they were like this is awesome and I made like Nerf War battles and then I think it was like 2010 and I saw on YouTube it was Lego Black Ops I don't know if you guys have seen this thing and it starts off this guy just running with these people. Pew, pew, pew, pew. And he's like killing all these little Lego guys. And the Lego guys are shooting each other and killing each other. And I was like, as a kid, I was like, I have to make this. I was like, this is the coolest thing in the world. So I was like, I tried to recreate it, but I didn't know what stop motion was because I was an idiot and I was 10 years old. So I put the Lego thing. I was like, wow, my hand, I was moving it. I'm like, my hands, how did they not put their hands in a string? And my mom actually is like, I think it's called Lego. stop motion. Shout out mom. So I started doing that. It's her fault. It's her fault. But I think something I always talk about is I grew up with YouTube. YouTube was my teacher and YouTube I think was something I gravitated towards. I honestly didn't watch that many movies growing up. I'm so bad at watching movies. I have no director knowledge or actor knowledge. It's not there. But YouTube because when I saw a YouTube video I was like I can make that because with like a movie you're watching like I can make that when I was a kid but when I saw YouTube it was like I can make that there was a ton of tutorials on like how to make it like indie filmmakers and indie mogul and like all the other like YouTube channels Film Riot that type of thing exactly so and Honestly, the first video that I watched was Zach King. Not his magic trick videos, he made these skits and I loved them and he taught how to make a steady cam with wood and pipe and I built it. I went to Home Depot, I spray painted it black. But YouTube taught me how to be accessible, learn the technical things, learn somewhat of a style and I think Ryan could speak and eventually we would merge. Yeah, and so

Speaker 05: 43:01

for me, I... I always, like, loved movies. I watched a ton of movies as a kid growing up. I always loved them. But I never, like, pieced it together that that was something I was going to do. And then I... My friends, Gabe and Jalen Choi, who, like, are the coolest people ever, they had a YouTube channel called Fresh Dudes Productions. And they made YouTube videos that were, like, very much in, like, the Ryan Higa realm. Like, yeah, you know. And I was always watching Ryan Higa. I'm like, oh, my God. These are, like, the funniest things ever. And so... they would do those short little videos. And then I was like, oh my God, I want to make one with you. And so then I would help them on like a couple of them. And then I just ended up making like edit videos, like scooter edit, like stuff. My brother was actually doing that before me. He did edits and I was like, that's cool. Maybe I'll try that. And then that grew into, in high school, we had the chance to audition. Like you had to audition for our film program, which was like only 15 kids at the time. And it was through this program called film ed which is public school too yeah public school and like all this stuff and so we ended up making it into that class together um and he he was he this is sophomore year he was kind of like this odd one out everyone in that class knew each other in some way i think i came from a different middle school yeah he came from a different middle school and like uh just what we like he wasn't we just didn't know i had no friends i know i know yeah he had no friends and so he comes in and you know at first week he's like make a film and bring it in or whatever and i'm like oh yeah like i want to make a movie and brought it in and out and then i thought it was okay and then zach showed his film and everyone was like Like, this thing's good. And I remember being like, okay, okay. And then I think Zach watched mine, and he was like, oh, yeah, like, this thing's good. And then we hated each other. You have two options from that point. You either make him your ally, or you become, like, enemies. You know, you become enemies. So then the next project came along, and I was like, so, Zach, like, I don't know, you had, like, a pretty decent film. You know, like, make a movie or something. Yeah, like, we're flirting. We're just like, you want to, like, make a movie? And we did it. And this next movie we made, we bring to class, and it's badass for our time. We're like, this is really good and funny. And people are like, oh, there's something here between these two. And from then on, we just made everything together. And it was just like every single project. I mean, I've kind of gone back and tried to organize everything we've ever made. I mean, we're talking like 40, 50 short films, just like the one minute, two minute, like over four hours of like shorts and stuff that... And that's a practice. And that's just practice. You know, no one's ever going to see those. One day maybe. Hey, maybe one day. And... you know it kind of just grew and film ed was like the coolest thing being educated like over the summer doing this like program which taught you how to make movies and you submitted to the orange county film festival and you competed in all this stuff and it all kind of just grew from there until we were like got to the point where like okay well we gotta apply to colleges and we've been making all these films together we you know we're like well the odds of us you know going to the same school are none like it's not gonna happen schools they pick people not from the same area like you know they try to spread it out a little bit because the whole world submits tens of thousands of things like we're not gonna get in the same school and we both got into USC oh my what what are the odds that's so like that's crazy low like how did that even happen and also both getting into film production which especially that gets split up so often here like you go to maps you go to cams they just put you somewhere and we both got it so then once we got here We just were like, we got to establish ourselves. And our freshman year, we put in work. We made like five short films, I guess? Like five short films. Because it was this class where we had full freedom. We had assignments, but you could make whatever you want, kind of with whoever you want. And we just did that. And every time we made something together, we were aware that we kind of needed to... prove ourselves in some way you know because part of film school is competition and I think that's so healthy you know there's a way it gets toxic but like I'm so glad we had a class that was competitive because everyone started making their like best work

Speaker 03: 47:25

possible you know you're in a I think like in high school You know, you stick out if you like try really hard, right? I think USC, what's cool is like everyone, every single person is gonna try to make the best thing possible. Cause we are all the kids that were like, I'm going to make the coolest project for my little project that technically doesn't matter in high school, but you're going to do as much as possible to make it as good. Now everyone's on that same level. Everyone's like, I'm going balls to the wall. I'm going to do everything I can to make this the perfect thing possible. It's intimidating when you see other people throwing it out, but it pushed us. We're going to stand out. I think what was interesting, I forgot who it was. It won't name, but someone had said with our films, Zach and Ryan made YouTube videos. I remember Ryan It was like a tiny sting, but at the same time it was like a oh like well you know what we need to start making our things a little more cinematic in terms of like a story and whatnot and that I think that elevated our stuff quite a bit like we really started thinking of like story not just because we make things entertaining and I think that like we're so lucky that we love making things entertaining because that's what most movies are most movies are sorry I just totally just bumped that most movies are like weird and you just don't realize it because you're thrown into that world but like that's kind of natural for us so we just start getting the story aspect down

Speaker 05: 48:48

yeah that was kind of the growth into college and kind of led to you know just keep on making things but yeah the start was definitely like for both of us before high school met in high school and then here

Speaker 04: 48:59

that's sick what did you think made both of you get into usc film production

Speaker 05: 49:05

well actually that's interesting because we kind of did this thing we like made two films, kind of together. We helped each other out on both of our USC applications, and we knew which ones we were going to submit. I was like, I had this idea for this. I had this preconceived thing in my head. I'm like, USC expects this certain thing. There's a meta to this. It's like, okay, there's a meta. I can play the game, that sort of thing. I've learned that there actually is not. There is not a meta. I have no idea how... I truly think it is, like, flip a coin, they like it, and then do an interview, and then the interview is, like, you know, the thing, probably, that they kind of go, yay, you know, gladiator type shit. And so we, like, picked these two films. I did this, like... not a comedy. I did a film about a kid trying to make the perfect paper airplane and in his imagination it comes to life and it's like partially his face is animated and it's like a mixed media thing which is like it turns into a toy story where the paper airplane gets neglected as the kid grows up and then the air conditioning blows him out the window one day and there's another little kid on the street who finds this new toy and it kind of starts that cycle again. And so it was very much a Toy Story 3, like, you know, hand off of the toys. That's all it was. And it got him in. And it got him in. And then Zach helped on that. And then for Zach's, his thing, you can talk

Speaker 03: 50:38

about. Yeah, because I think I told myself, like, you know what? I want to make the thing that I want to make in film school. Like, the weirdest thing possible. And if they don't like it, like, then, like, you know, I'll go somewhere else. Because originally I actually made it for the Chapman things. I had another idea for USC, but I liked how it came out so much. I'm like... If USC wants me, they're going to take this. And that was the Santa video. It was like a 16 year old kid who still believes in Santa Claus, but he wants to kill him because he hasn't gotten any presents that he wanted or anything. He's never gotten any presents. So he devises his whole plan. And by the end of the film, he like poisons like the cookies and whatnot. And he's waiting on the couch for it to happen. And he wakes up and he sees his dad eating the cookies because Santa's not real. And he kills his dad. And it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was dark and I was like, this is awesome. And that got me in and Ryan helped out with that too. And I remember that was the worst writing block I'd ever had. It was scary because I couldn't think of any movie ideas Which is scary because now I feel like I'm flowing. But then I was... We haven't

Speaker 05: 51:48

had writer's block in a long

Speaker 03: 51:50

time. But it was really bad because I was like, I need to come up with a thing or I'm not going to get into school. It was like the pressure, right? So every day I would go downstairs into my living room and I would just talk to my mom and dad. I'm like, do you guys have any ideas? And they're like, no. And I did it for probably three months. And finally my mom was like, you should do something about telling your kid that Santa's not real. And then... I was like, boom. And things started moving. And I called Ryan. I was like, Ryan, what do you think? And Ryan gave an idea. The guy who was like the Doctor Strange. Yeah, like, this is it. This is it. And then I posted it on YouTube. It was like, college application film, like USC. And it blew up. It was just cool.

Speaker 05: 52:26

Yeah, it's now, I think, whatever. Not that I'm jealous or anything. But, like, his is now, like, I think mine didn't get any views, whatever, when I posted it. But his, I think, is now the... the second highest USC like application film accepted on YouTube now or something like that after Liam Loughran who had like two legendary ones which was like some like pizza delivery and like shotgun was about the baby getting kidnapped and whatever which is just iconic I wonder where he is man I wonder that

Speaker 03: 52:55

too here's everyone's like inspiration

Speaker 05: 52:58

no because I remember I checked his YouTube channel at some point I think I saw his like 310 which was about like The robber woman? The robber. The person goes in, steals a dress, and then he likes the way it looks on him. Something like that. I don't know. I don't remember exactly, but it was sweet. It was cute. I have no idea where he's now. Hopefully, he's doing good. Hopefully, he's doing good. Shout out. Shout out Liam. Shout out Liam. For putting up a high standard. Really a high standard. High bar. I'm glad that high bar existed. I think it elevated a lot of people who submitted to colleges. Oh, absolutely. It's crazy how that works. All these people are like... There's this little matrix that we're all connected to, this little hive mind, through other people's work on YouTube. And it's like its own subculture of, oh, I'm a filmmaker. It's like, I'm a person who applied to film schools, and I know this one movie. I know so many people that... I mean, you've been, even people who have come to school, been like... I've seen your application. You did the Santa one. You did the Santa one. That was me. That was him. Yeah. I shot it. Thank you. Thank you. Ryan did shoot it. Ryan did shoot it. It was like, that's literally, we just made two of them and it was like a really good, good time. Good vibe.

Speaker 04: 54:07

Now that's sick. And you guys were at OC together. You guys grew up in OC?

Speaker 05: 54:12

Yeah. We, our parents' houses are like seven minutes away from each other. Five minutes if you're fast enough. Yeah. Super close. So, and our parents are friends. Can I think they just played bingo the other night. Bingo the other

Speaker 04: 54:27

night. The American dream, dude. Oh, yeah. Living the dream. Yeah. Wait, so you, speaking of OC, like, you directed that OC nomination.

Speaker 05: 54:35

Oh, yeah. It was supposed to be both of us. He didn't want to do it. It's cool. Yeah, yeah. They asked me, because I, and he has two, but since graduating, I, for a while, I always taught post-sound over camp. And then there was a year and, like, a partial year where I taught... as a main instructor. And I got asked again this year. I still don't think I can because of work that might come up, but I love film ed. And so when they asked me to do the nomination video, I was like, well, like... I got to do this once, you know, because there's kind of this there's this big award at OCFF, the Orange County Film Festival that you get, which is called Filmmaker of the Year, which like the order of this is the craziest order of events. But it went the year before me was Zaid, who is like one of our best friends, shoots all of our films like Zaid. And then the next year, like I won. And then the year after me, Alex Guo won. And then the year after me, Daisy won. And so and then after that this girl named Hunaina won and it's like all in Hunaina is at Chapman now legend cannot wait to see what she's making like great writer director also probably the best sound editor, like, mixer I've ever met. She's so awesome. And it's just like this thing that happens, and every year after you win, it kind of became a thing like, hey, you're going to probably direct it. And so I'm like, the torch is handed to me. And I'm like, well, Zay didn't do it the past year, so I'm still going to bring him on because he's a DP. So I'm like, you want to shoot this thing? And he's like, let's do it. So we made it. That was... to this day, one of the craziest experiences of my life. And I'm so... I think it taught me so much about directing on a bigger scale. It, like... I feel like that is a way to easily know, like, to crush you. If, like... It'll tell you if you want to be a director or not, something like that. I mean, our crew had 55 to 60 people. It was, like, a huge production. Like... So many moving parts. It's 30 something minutes long. Tons of, I mean, like 20, 30 extras. I mean, it's huge. It was such a massive shoot. And our shooting days, I mean, we had like 30 shots to do a day. Crazy. With that big of a crew, it's crazy. And so... It's a very easy way, I think, to get discouraged if, you know, something like that takes you down. And that did nothing except bring me so much confidence that I want to keep doing this. I loved making it. It was like, it made me realize I don't want to do another NOM video because, you know, they're just so big, but they're so cool. Very specific too. And it's so specific, but it's so rewarding when you go and you show this nomination video to these kids. Because the thing is, you have to keep in mind, you're doing this for these students. and I was in their positions once and I know what it's like to see your name pop up on this video and you don't know when it's gonna come because it's woven into this story and then it goes oh my gosh it's time for nominations for best independent short or something and you look and then your name comes up and you go crazy and when I just remembered that feeling and I was like I need to bring this feeling to these kids because like I know what it's like. And when, when that thing played in the theater and you just hear these groups of people erupting with joy, you're just like, yes, like it's so worth it. And it was so fun to make. And it's, it was, you know, Zach wasn't necessarily there on set and stuff, but like he was there in the background, like ideas and like he edited it. He was, uh, you know, he was there the whole process. So like, you know, it's just a nature of, I was willing to like pull my hair out and have a crazy work life balance where actually There was no balance. It was work and no life, actually. So that was a really, really crazy experience. It was fun, though.

Speaker 04: 58:38

No, I saw that video and I couldn't believe it. I was like, it's a one-er going up a hill with all these historical pieces. Oh,

Speaker 05: 58:43

yeah. I mean, it has like... three, four different genres. It's a Western at certain points. It's a Steven Spielberg movie at some points. It's a 1920s, like, great Gatsby era at some points. It's a time travel movie. It's all this stuff that somehow, like, comes together. I'm really, like, I'm really proud of it. Also, it was a great experience working with child actors because they were, I think at the time, 11 and 13 or something like that. Really helpful to learn that. There were so many, I feel like there's every project you do you know you take something out of it and it's like you know we have all our shorts that we've done and that one specifically back in I guess I was my sophomore year it taught me how to work with a big crew taught me like mass communication to different departments And then taught me how to work with child actors, taught me how to work with a steady cam, taught me how to work with extras, like all these things that taught me how to work with a production designer, all costumes, all this stuff. And every project should have a thing that you're like, this is what I'm taking away from it. Like barbershop, when we did that, I think it was the accumulation of, it was previs and then also the- Color. And then also the color as in like- Color palette. Color palette, production design, just, you know. Yeah. So yeah, that was a good time.

Speaker 04: 1:00:07

That was so sick. And talk about how did you guys get into your different fields of post-production? Because you do color grading, you do sound. How did you guys find that passion for those? They

Speaker 03: 1:00:19

need to make money. Yeah, they need to make money, right? I think... It was easy to start editing at first in high school and whatnot. That was an easy way to get gigs. And then going to the money thing, actually, I had seen on a budget sheet of who's getting paid for what. And at the time, I didn't realize color was a separate thing. And I saw the editing feed. And then I saw this crazy color feed. And I was like... who, what, I can do that. And I was like, that's stupid. Why are you getting paid more than me? And I like the color, because I would color in Premiere. And I was like, that's my favorite part anyways. So I was like, I'm going to try to figure this thing out, because DaVinci's free, most accessible program for a lot of people to learn, right? So I download it, and the first thing I really colored was the Domination video. That was the first thing I did. And I did it, and I thought it came out pretty good, especially for my first time. And I just did it on my laptop, and I reposted my story And my good friend Avery Niles, who's a crazy color grade artist, and he came to USC, he just graduated. He swipes up, he's like, did you just do that on your computer? And I was like, yeah. He's like, oh man, you're good. And we need to get you a wheel. And that was like a wheel system. He's like, we're going to get you set up. And he helped me out. He let me borrow this wheel thing for a while. He taught me everything that I would know. And like, I just started loving color because one thing that's cool about post-production is that you get to be on a lot of more projects in a span of time. And it's not that like, I don't know, like time consuming in terms of just like being on set is a lot, but like, I think seeing that many projects informs your directing and your style and whatnot. And I think that's been like the most helpful thing, but like, again, also it pays my bills and it's fun. And I've been able to, partnered with a ton of DPs here and it's really cool.

Speaker 05: 1:02:07

Yeah.

Speaker 03: 1:02:07

And

Speaker 05: 1:02:08

for me, sound started in high school actually because of Zach. So like I said, one of the, I started out as a sound designer. He was the first sound designer. And it's cause he did, um, he made this film in like sophomore year and I watched it and I'm like, this thing sounds epic. Like it sounded like, like it had all these cool sound effects and whooshes and booms. And sound design at that point was just like putting a lot of sound. Yeah. And then our, our teacher for our film program, Alex Graham, legend is the intro to sound professor at Chapman and so he sees and he's like sound design he's like by the way I don't know if you guys know this I teach sound at Chapman and he's like I'm also like I do sound and like that's what I've done my whole life and I make music and all the stuff it's like that's cool I'm like can you teach me and so then he like taught me and mentored me through that and every from then on it's every film I did it's like I spent you know I could edit a film for an hour and be cool I'd picture lock it but sound two days like minimum just like grinding I'm like this is gonna sound perfect and it made all the difference. I think, like, Everything we have done has felt so much more professional, not for any other reason except for the fact that it sounds good. 100%. The sound is the biggest difference. It's such a big difference. I mean, it's everything. You can say that all the time and be like, oh, well, there's some arguments where it's like movies are 50-50. It's not. Sound is more. It really is. And you can argue that all day, but I really think it's like 60-40, maybe even 70-30 on the... I mean, there's so many... Pony Smasher on YouTube is like the guy who made Shazam, the director. Lights Out? Yeah, yeah. And so he did a video about it where he showed Shazam at like 240p with perfect audio and then 4K with bit-crushed bad audio. Right. And... You don't want to watch, you'd rather watch the bad quality video one because just mentally that's what happens. And after I saw that, I'm like, okay, I'm going to lock in on the sound stuff. Did that all through high school. And then my senior year, this is where things really start getting trippy when you think about it. I think I was still 17, but I lied. I said I was 18 because I got... my word got around about my sound through like the Orange, we got on the Orange County register for our films and someone like knew I did sound and was like, hey, do you want to do some sound design for Zach King? And I was like, yeah, sure. So then I ended up doing 18, 20 videos for Zach King, just doing sound design. Yeah, for King Studios. I was like 17, told him I was 18, something like that. And so did that, did all their like Dude Perfect collabs, did their Daniel Mack collabs did all these like big collab videos sky brown all these little you could go back there's so many of these videos i did for them i can't even like remember them all um There was a Bitcoin one, Doge to the Moon. I did sound for so many of his videos and did that. That was my first ever job. I was 17, was film. I've only ever worked in film. And so then from there, that got me a job kind of in sports production. And I started doing sports. I was like an A2 sometimes and like an editor. Then went to college and kept doing sound. I've been a mixer, so I'm a QST at the film school, a qualified sound technician. I run ADR. I'm a student mixer. And I've kept doing that and then do freelance sound, do music videos.

Speaker 03: 1:05:33

And I think what's nice is because, I mean, going back to color, once we discovered that color grading was a thing, because we didn't realize it was a thing, we look back at our old projects, we're like, oh. There's like a, wow, that's a huge difference. And I think what's nice is that because we each... mean in the post-production process like things go by really quickly in terms of like you have to wait usually for like your sound designer your color we are the people that do it and it's also really cost effective too like we don't have to like we are the package like we will do it because we can do it at a high enough level where it's like saving thousands thousands of dollars and also just time like we'll just do it and i think it's just uh i don't know it just makes us be able to get more things done more effective and I don't know. Better stuff.

Speaker 05: 1:06:19

We know that there are obviously people who are far better at these things than us. We do it because we do it at a level that, for us, it's good. I think it's great, actually. I think our work in that regard is great. There are people who can perfect it. We're not perfectionists. We have never been perfectionists. It's not something that I strive to be. It's like, if it... If people wouldn't notice, and it does the job, and it's up to our standard, which is a high standard, then there's such thing as good enough, move on.

Speaker 03: 1:06:56

Because people are not going to notice. And I think with our side jobs, though, that is not what we ultimately want to do. I remember I was sitting down at Ryan's house, and I was like, Ryan, I just don't want to keep coloring. I was like, we want to direct. And Ryan's like, no, we got it. And then I

Speaker 05: 1:07:12

turn around from my hunchback of 18 hours of Pro Tools, and I'm like, I agree

Speaker 03: 1:07:16

man yeah and I think and what's cool with the Doritos thing it really opened it up where like we were definitely going to keep probably doing these little gigs but hopefully like less and less to the point where we're just fully directing and I think it's nice because now we have this knowledge and whatnot when we start making features and whatnot that we get to work with a team and like we have that knowledge now to communicate what we want

Speaker 04: 1:07:35

totally no that's I think every director should have some technical skills like to pay the bills

Speaker 05: 1:07:40

side job you know it's like so I worked at Trader Joe's yeah like any I think also when you're going through a film school it's easy to get caught up in learning creative skills, I really have a hard time with thinking that you can learn directing through a curriculum. I don't think that's possible. I really don't. And same with writing. You can learn the rules of writing and follow them until you're good enough to break them and make the changes. But I realized as soon as I got here, I'm like, you know, All of the films we have made at USC are not USC-affiliated projects. We direct outside of school so we can own our films. We still own our IP, but we own our actual physical film. And it's not affiliated. And I think it's just really... Freedom, a lot of freedom. Yeah, there's just a ton of freedom in that, and it's super helpful.

Speaker 04: 1:08:41

No, definitely. And you guys say it's a good side gig to pay the bills. Can you guys reveal some numbers relating to that?

Speaker 05: 1:08:48

Yeah, I mean, it super varies, but the hard part is that there's some months where where it's like, I just did four music videos, or three music videos plus a short film. Short films pay the least because they're all independent. No budget. No budget, and they're just being like this. Commercials, love it. I love when a producer comes to me and is like, yo, I have a commercial. Done. I have a couple of producers who I'm their second, probably first or second choice, probably second. There's always someone... you know, better when it comes to sound. And so like, um, they come to me and they're like, yo, like we have this project and it's gotten to the point where they're like, there's no more negotiation. It's just like, Hey, here's a project. It's like a 32nd to a minute short. It's like 750 bucks. Like go and do it. And you know, that's, that's, You know, when you put it into perspective, I know plenty of people who do production sound or like DPS and like their day rates are in the thousands, you know, and so that 750 is kind of up to me how I spend that time, you know, and allocate it. which is something I do like about posts. So say they're like, here's 750 bucks. Delivery is in like three days, right? And expecting notes. So you want to give them like a day to give notes. So you do it in like two days and you do some more notes. I mean, 750, you can make your own hourly pay out of that. So say I have three days to do it. I take $750. Let's say each day I just break it into like, oh, 250 and I want to work five hours each day. I just gave myself a $50, like a $50 hourly pay and that's something you can do for yourself unless there's a time when it's like you get two producers who just reach out to you he's like I have one who's like oh $750 for this project $600 for this and you're like they're due on the same day and they're two days from now so you're like shit now I need to do $1,300 worth of work in two days but also doing notes it's like I'm about to work one 16 hour day or something on this but the hourly pay is can be like almost 100 now you know what i mean and so when you put it in the numbers like that but guess what those could be your only two projects that month or that's what makes it hard so it's really the numbers sound big and that's the big thing it's like the numbers sound big because they are like at least i think sometimes on certain projects and the numbers get way bigger for when you're way more talented um but

Speaker 03: 1:11:26

Um, the project can take longer. I think, I mean, this is like very similar, same thing with the color, like rates and whatnot, how you negotiate it down. But it can be the opposite where it's like, Oh my God, you're getting paid seven 50 for color. That's crazy. But then the amount of notes that you get and some of the amount of passes and hours, like it almost ends up being like below minimum wage. Right. And then like it's cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. And that's just kind of the name of the game, right? And I think it's like sometimes you can make like $75 an hour. It's like, that's crazy. You're $100 an hour because that's the nature of the project. Or other times you're making like $10 an hour. It just really depends. For every project

Speaker 05: 1:12:02

where you have a producer or director that goes, I love it. Great. No notes. I'll take it and run. And it's like, well, you just paid me a crazy amount. I only worked three hours on that. That's crazy money. For every one of those, you have one where it's like, let's set up eight meetings in person and four passes in those and that's why also it's important what I've been doing is you know you establish that boundary up front whether it's in the form of a contract or just a verbal agreement like hey this is my rate you know that's why I like working with the same producers over and over again that trust you and your work and then you just know that they're not gonna like lowball you when you have that communication it's literally a producer sends you a text and Got a job. Need it tomorrow. Here's, you know, 500 bucks. And it's just, there's no more communication. They know your style. They just know you need to get in there, get the job done, send it back to them. I mean, one of the awesome examples, I think for this project, and I still take like some fun projects just because I do still love sound even, you know, like I did some sound for a Gracie Abrams music video. And that was really exciting because I'm like, Gracie Abrams, cool artist. And the friend of mine shot, his name's Nima Sadehi really cool DP. He was like, Ryan. we need sound on this thing and we're delivering at 5 and I'm like that day I had woken up late and I was like oh yeah what time is that I'm like it's like 2.30 I'm like delivery's at 5 and he's like yeah bro just like whatever you can and it's like a 30 second sequence with crowds and people walking in a car like all this stuff and then that's when you're just like well this is like kind of a time to flex my skill and hopefully if I get more work down the line and really proud of that work go watch the I Love you i'm sorry grace abrams music good plug good plug yeah some of my work and some of my best work

Speaker 01: 1:14:02

uh yeah that was a fun one how do you guys go about like taking notes from these producers and does that inform your creative process at all like does that inform like new ideas like oh wait a second this is actually something i never thought about this note and i maybe adding that could elevate the work the color or the sound i mean i think it's just

Speaker 03: 1:14:18

like at the end of the day like you know we are creative but at the same time like these aren't our projects right so it's like we're just going to kind of listen know what they want so it's like you know it's like if they want something to sound a certain way or be colored a certain way like we'll give our suggestions and like we'll give our creative input because that's like why they hired us and like for yourself okay but no but it's like you know at the end of the day like this is their project this is their work this is the director right we're gonna give our influence and our and what we can do but it's like and we'll try to like influence the best thing possible but at the end of the day like We're not the directors. Unless

Speaker 05: 1:14:53

those notes are dumb as shit, okay? There are some notes that you get that are like, you just look, oh, there was some great, there was a note I got once, and it was about, oh, oh, it was like, oh, this is what, it was like, someone was smoking a cigarette, I think, and what I, one of the hardest sounds to do is like, you know when you inhale a cigarette, there's like, there's a, the fizzle, okay.

Unknown: 1:15:18

Yeah.

Speaker 05: 1:15:19

Go to someone in real life who's smoking a cigarette. You will not hear that sound. It is a completely manufactured and fake sound. Unless it's like a super close-up. But I'm talking people who are on a medium or a wide and they want this crisp sound. And I just hate cigarettes. I really struggle with the sound of cigarettes. And this director goes, can you make the sound of the cigarette more sensual? And I'm like, what do you mean? I'm already in pain. Little things like that are silly. But of course, then you get really good notes where you're like, oh, I didn't even think of that. Or, oh, wow, that's a really good vision. And sometimes it's as simple as, can you turn that down? And it's like, yeah, I can do that. It's honestly, when people's notes get too creative, they become, not too creative, but like... yeah they're like they think they're being specific but it ends up being like the most vague thing you could ever do you know it's like it's like directing it's like be more happy yeah it's like it's like conveying and I imagine someone like has the idea of like oh this is like I'm thinking about love

Speaker 03: 1:16:26

I want the sound to be more beautiful yeah like they're thinking about love

Speaker 05: 1:16:28

and beauty and they're like you know do it more like this painting and they show like an abstract photo you know like they show you like an ink block test and you're like what do you mean that's your note it's just like a Rorschach test like that's crazy

Speaker 03: 1:16:43

so those are always and also when people are asking for the moon and it's like especially with the color it's like make my like Sony footage look like beautifully lit airy raw like it's like I can't do that or

Speaker 05: 1:16:57

they didn't do they like skimped out on production

Speaker 03: 1:17:00

sound

Speaker 05: 1:17:01

and it

Speaker 03: 1:17:01

sounds raw we're trying our best we'll do everything in our power to make it look and sound as good as possible but like There's limitations and I think like, you know, I think people think that color and sound will fix... I think that is a big thing. It's like when people come in to sound and color so that that can fix their film. Yeah. That thing should have been fixed in the script. The script, it should already be good. We're just the cherry on top. It should already be good. So that's another thing.

Speaker 05: 1:17:26

Yeah, fix it in the script. Fix it in the script. That's the place, man. It's just on paper.

Speaker 04: 1:17:32

Right. There's this one project with USC Athletics that... What was it? Arrival of the Trojans? Oh, yeah, yeah. New color, though. I didn't do the color, yeah. I remember my parents... sent me this like article in Chinese and it was like about Flint's journey and how he made the thing and at the end it was talking about his friend Zach did the color grading it was all in Chinese I was like yo I know these people like that's crazy that would be cool to see yeah and have you guys done like collaborations with USC Athletics on

Speaker 03: 1:17:58

other stuff no that was the I mean that was the first time I mean we've done technically they

Speaker 05: 1:18:03

reposted Barbershop they did repost

Speaker 03: 1:18:05

that yeah not a sport thing but like um we worked with flint before like we did a coachella video before because i met him freshman year and i remember like i had seen i had stalked his instagram i thought he did some cool stuff so i came i was like hey man i'm zach he's like what i'm flint he's the best guy in the world now he's like the coolest dude so like when you look at him like he does not look like a guy who would be doing like the type of work that he does like he just looks like a surfer but instead he's like creating the craziest like content in the world but yeah the color on the thing was fun because i think what's cool it's like For him, most things I'm coloring are live action, but this is totally animated, right? All I'm working with in the visual effects, color, sphere, so that's really... fun challenge and interesting and like we get to really play with colors and it's super super super cool so i was blessed that he threw me on the project and very proud of how it came out it looked good on the jumbotron so

Speaker 04: 1:19:00

and you guys i remember you guys showed the barber shop to pete carroll right yes so cool that was so so random yeah so cool like would you guys want to do more things relating to sports in the future you think actually no and

Speaker 05: 1:19:13

my reasoning is i worked in sports well we both so i worked yeah right out of high school i was actually a spring admit here, so I was at community college for a semester, and I worked Friday through Sunday doing sports broadcasting for Bally Sports, and then that ended up becoming Spectrum, Fox Sports, that whole realm of things. I've just worked so much in sports. I could see us doing like a creative thing in sports world, but like, definitely not leaning. I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm very weary of it because like I've already done so much and then I had him join me and like he did work with sports as well. And I kind of feel like I've been there.

Speaker 03: 1:19:56

Uh, it's cool. Yeah. I think what, you know, hopefully we'll be doing more directing things, but if we stay in the sound and color sphere, give us the sports stuff to pay our bills. So we'll take that. Yeah. Oh

Speaker 04: 1:20:06

yeah. And what are some of the future stuff you're hoping to make? Like, is there any specific genre or anything? Comedy.

Speaker 03: 1:20:12

I mean, I think like, you know, dark comedy, dark comedy, raunchy comedy, fun comedy, like all comedy. Cause I think there's such a void right now in the theaters. Uh, you know, the Jed Apatow, Adam McKay, Ben Stiller era of like those types of films are like not in theaters. And we want to bring that back. Cause I think people need to laugh. And I think that's what we want to do so hopefully that is like the type of feature films that we're going to be making we've been writing some and get our you know get in front of some studio execs and hopefully start pitching and we'll see what happens but yeah that is the that is the next step making comedy films and you know we like to explore other genres but we know what our niche is right now and like if that's our you know way to get in our ticket we're going to take it

Speaker 04: 1:20:53

yeah That's super awesome. I'm so excited to see the stuff you guys do next. Thanks.

Speaker 05: 1:21:00

We're stoked as well. Even doing more commercial work. At the end of the day, when you're making a feature, the average length of time you spend making a feature is roughly three to four years or something like that. That's the average lifespan of making something. In three to four years, if you're hired as a director on something, you can maybe sustain yourself with whatever contract you get paid. or maybe if it's fully independent, you're making nothing. We want to be able to sustain ourselves and commercial work would do that while we also love commercials. Growing up, watching the best commercials ever are so much inspiration for what I do today. Continue doing more commercials. I think soon we're maybe going to do another short. It really depends. But we're writing features. Hopefully going to pitch some features to some people that want to fund it. And we'll

Speaker 03: 1:21:57

see once we head out of college. I think a main thing that we've talked about is that there's been this weird shift in the industry where it's like, you can't make your feature until you're like 35, 40 years old. And I don't know. Why is that established? Because the best director, Steven Spielberg and Martin Scorsese, everyone, you look at when they made their first feature, very young, super young, like younger than all of us. And I think it's like, why did that go away? It's like, I know the resources and whatnot might have not, are more limited now and it's harder to get your thing off the ground, but you need to practice. And we know that our first feature is not going to be perfect, but we also know it will be entertaining. And I think you just need to make it and then get to the next one, right? It's practice, repetition. So I think there is no reason why, just because that we're young, we can't make things that are just as entertaining, just as marketable and just as like fun. So we believe that we have the ability to make a feature and why not?

Speaker 04: 1:22:52

That's sick. No, I love that motto. And I hope that it becomes the new norm where people our age are able to do these bigger things that people expect people that are 30 to do.

Speaker 03: 1:23:03

And we proved that with the Doritos

Speaker 05: 1:23:04

thing. People didn't expect someone our age would be doing something at that level. We would have been the youngest to win. Yeah, we would have been the youngest to ever win that contest. And it's like, we're doing things that would be like, oh, you're too young to do that. If it's available, attack. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. Like you said, it's not going to be perfect. I have no intention of my first feature being... Oscar worthy. Even close. It should be something that's like... Show your voice. Yeah, it just gives the idea of who you are. And we've made 40, 50 short films. The equivalent of that for movies is before you make anything that you would actually show to someone, it would be like you just have maybe one, two movies. Just get it out of the way with.

Speaker 03: 1:23:49

And then Adweek posted, right when the Doritos thing had launched on the Super Bowl, an article came out pretty much saying that if our ad would have won for the Doritos competition and aired, and Adweek's one of the highest regarded ad, what's it called? It's like the Hollywood reporter of ads, that if our ad would have won, our ad would have been like the number one ad out of all the commercials that aired, which is pretty crazy. Like it's pretty credible source and also just like a big honor. And I, you know, it would have been fun to see that actually play out, but it's pretty cool that they predicted that. And I think that also, I mean, that means that we were competing against like the biggest ad agencies in the world and the biggest like stars. And like, it's just us with like our friends and a couple of like a couple of dreams and like a little bit of cash and we made something cool. So I think it just gave us a validation, like, Age doesn't matter. We can

Speaker 01: 1:24:43

make it. Going off of that, what would be some advice you would give maybe your high school self, high school senior yourself, or some of our listeners who are considering film school or pursuing a career in film? Would you say just to go ahead and do it? What are some best ways to

Speaker 05: 1:24:59

learn? Dude, I wish I... I mean, all I... would ever say is like I mean you know because I teach I teach over summers or have in the past for like film ed and stuff and everything I always like the thing I would always say to people is just like just keep making stuff like if you just keep making stuff it doesn't like just write it's daunting to look at like a blank page and just write something but at the end of the day if you just write it make it it's just great practice put a camera in your hand and just go and like shoot it right I mean it's so important I I shot everything we did in high school like having the camera in my hand and that just teaches you so much like feeling and like oh editing you have to like actually keep making stuff and everyone says that but not even at a level that's like oh you know like just write no like start to finish not just like making it as in like oh come up with an idea an idea does not mean anything. Anyone can be like, I'm going to make a film about someone who like is a ninja and like, you know, that's it. You know, I mean, you could, anyone can come up with like that. some premise but to say like to make it a story where it's like a ninja with like a really sad backstory and then like a plot twist you know and just like going beginning to end and you're like okay well I need to get a costume and I need to get an actor and I need to go shoot and then okay edit and then do sound and then and then and then show people and then get notes and then hear back and then be like okay well on to the next like not I'm gonna go back and reshoot some stuff just on to the next because I and also I think there is a good like find a natural progression don't force yourself to like I feel like, especially now, I am ready for features in a way that a year ago, I wasn't. And I know that. I know I couldn't have sit down a year ago and written a feature like we have now. It is a very natural, mental, physical progression that happens. And so in high school, I remember we made a two-minute short film together, and then another two-minute, another two-minute, and a three-minute short. And then our teacher was like, oh, maybe you should make a five-minute short. We're like, no. We're like, no. Because we're like, we need to make a 12-minute, 10-minute short film with a big story and an arc. And our teacher's like, please don't. Like, please don't. And we were like, we will. And he was like, it's not going to, like, just keep building. You're going to build naturally to, like, your ideas will get better and bigger naturally that it will inform the length. Don't, like, put the size or, like... like grandiose of your idea don't put that first it's like your story will just build to that and then we made in our like junior year of high school we did not listen to a 12 minute short film the worst thing we've ever made it's undoubtedly the worst thing we've ever made it's really bad and I look and no one will ever see it I look back on it I don't think it's as bad as he hates it I think it's like tolerable the opening scene is good but it's good because it is word for word a copy of the opening seen in another film it's recontextualized so it's like the only good part is something completely stolen and that that is the only good part and so it's just we so forced it and i remember two months of our life in high school which two months in high school is an eternity like it is forever and we spent two months on this thing so proud of it we've been hyping it up to our teacher to our class and we're gonna screen it today and everyone's like oh my Because we've made good stuff till then. So I was like, okay, Ryan and Zach are going to do something. We show this movie. Two laughs throughout the whole thing. The ending happens. No pity claps. And the teacher goes, yeah. I told you so. And he was like, on to the next, pretty much. He was like, you know, like you guys tried with this, but you should have just stuck. And he was really blunt about it. He's like, it's not great. You should just, it was not even good. You should just move on and make a new project, like scrap it. I think film is

Speaker 03: 1:29:11

not for the like, you know, weary at heart. Like it's hard. It's really hard. You're going to, I mean, we've faced so much rejection. and failure and you just have to keep going and you have to just say, I'm going to make my thing. I'm just going to make it. And I think because Ryan and I were like, all right, no matter what, like we want to get to our end goal. Like, you know, we lost Doritos and we just wrote a feature. Like we just kind of keep going. And I think maybe my advice to people out there is that like, I think there's been this like, you know, before in the past, like you don't need film school. Film school is like, you don't need, I believe that you do need film school in the terms of like, it forces you to make things and it forces you to meet a lot of people who also want to make things. Yes, the curriculum might not be like, you can learn the same thing on YouTube, like totally agree with all of that. But I think like being in that you know, the atmosphere of competitiveness and people pushing each other, like you can't replicate that and just like going, I'm going to go like shoot it. Like you have, and there's also great teachers here too and mentors and stuff. So I think like film school is, needed like i would suggest like if you want to pursue film and you have the opportunity and the means to go go because you're going to meet a lot of like future collaborators like our cohort we will work with those people for the rest of our lives and without film school we'd have never met those people and i think like that is so that's what that's what we came for college for and we got it so

Speaker 04: 1:30:32

Yeah, that's awesome, guys. And we have a thing where we do on the podcast where we have the previous guests leave the current guests a question. And this is your question.

Speaker 05: 1:30:44

What a daisy ass

Speaker 04: 1:30:47

question. Where do you go to find solitude? like where do you when you feel like you need a crash out oh crash

Speaker 03: 1:30:55

interesting um i love i feel like the beach resets me i i think honest just the sound of the waves is just like my like way of like i have adhd so my brain just is always just moving and for some reason that is like my space where i like Everything is just calm for a second because the moment I leave, then I'm going, I love the way my brain works, but it's just like, I think the water and the ocean and everything, it's just so calm. That is my space. And you need those bricks, right? Cause like you, you're going to overheat. Um, but yeah, that's my space. Where do you go? Yeah. I mean, I don't, I,

Speaker 05: 1:31:33

location doesn't matter really. I mean, I think, what do you do? I guess kind of if I crash out, I'll like go play my drums or something. That's something I'll do. I'll go bang on some drums, music, that sort of thing. But, I feel like what it really is, is I pace. If I need to think in any way, I just pace. I'll be in my room, I'll pace. Whenever we're coming up with ideas, I pace. And yeah, if I need to crash out, I just kind of complain to my friends. And I just whine. And I think it's good. I think it's really healthy to just be like... really like whiny about certain things to like a select group of people who are willing to just like listen for a moment like he's heard me just like bitch and moan about so many things you know and so I think that's valid and that's all it is it can be anywhere but what do you so how about

Speaker 03: 1:32:21

when like let's say after like a long shoot yeah right like we know we're both tired like we're cooked and maybe even after like spend days i think what do you do like what is your day to relax i

Speaker 05: 1:32:32

internalize it and swallow it deep down and never let it come out it's a terrible answer

Speaker 01: 1:32:40

i asked daisy this too so i'll throw this at you guys too um what would be one piece of art it could be a film it could be a painting it could be a music that you would bring to a deserted island if you're stuck there

Speaker 05: 1:32:53

oh i know what you would bring no you don't you're gonna think i'm gonna say a movie but i'm gonna say that movie

Speaker 03: 1:32:58

um i'd bring a guitar

Speaker 05: 1:33:03

okay yeah i hate that answer it's cool

Speaker 03: 1:33:05

you're gonna bring hot rod but then you don't have anywhere to play it and then you're screwed you're like you bring your movie but you forgot the tv and everything you're like damn yeah Oh, man. Yeah, I mean, I have some abstract painting. I'd bring the Mona Lisa. I'd

Speaker 05: 1:33:19

bring the Wernicke in. No. I don't know. Probably, yeah, probably Hot Rod. It's just like... I knew it. It's just like... It's kind of just like the best movie of all time. Have you guys ever seen it? I

Speaker 03: 1:33:31

haven't. I don't think so. Oh, my gosh. Please enlighten yourselves. Am I missing out? Yeah. Yeah. That's our style of filming. It's... Yeah, gotcha. That movie... That movie is peak. So I'm bringing a guitar and he's bringing hot rod. That's what we'll bring. Yeah.

Speaker 01: 1:33:45

Watching it while playing.

Speaker 03: 1:33:46

Oh

Speaker 04: 1:33:46

yeah. You know what? I actually did have one extra question.

Speaker 03: 1:33:50

Please. No, no more, no more questions.

Speaker 04: 1:33:53

When you show your films and you make your films in the future, what is the things you want your audience to leave the theater? You know, thinking about or what do you want them to take away from

Speaker 03: 1:34:01

you i mean that's our favorite part i mean the only reason we make movies is because we like the people's reaction we like i mean i think there's this weird thing in film school it's like make movies for yourself and like art is for you but like i believe and we both believe that film is a service like we're doing something for other people and i think that allows our films to be better because we want to make it enjoyable for everyone but we'd love to make people laugh and i think like also like we like to move people in different ways as well but i think laughter is like the best feeling in the world yeah i mean we just want people to walk away like entertained

Speaker 05: 1:34:31

and that's it I mean like make their day better yeah if you walk away with like an experience where you either go like oh like that was a good time or that made me feel funny or like they genuinely like that is it it's like it's not we don't have a it's not deep like honestly I we're not deep like that and I don't think there's a need I think that's good because there are I would say most people making movies do have a, like, deeper sense of, like, I want someone to walk away feeling, like, changed, altered, and that sort of thing. I'm like, I don't need someone to be altered by the end of my movie. I really don't. I hope someone can walk away and remember a couple funny lines and, like... Quote it to your friends. Quote it a little bit or maybe, you know, even just walk away going, like, that was an interesting plot line. Like, that was fun and, like, just a good... entertaining time but i will argue that i think

Speaker 03: 1:35:29

comedy films are important because i think like you know the world is so dark so you need but like it's true like people need to laugh people need to be able to relax and like let go and like have a good time and we hope that we can provide that provide a good time yeah

Speaker 04: 1:35:43

no that's so important and i love that like we need more of that in the world and i feel like film is like an escape right it's like oh yeah you want to be lost in a world where you're filled with joy yeah you know and lost in the absurdity of everything right so i love that's what you guys do

Speaker 05: 1:35:59

exactly and like you know there is a place for every type of film to exist and i think both of us, some of our favorite movies are the complete opposite of what we want to make. Like on my top list of movies is like hot. Like if I go through like the letterbox, it's like hot rod. Uh, my life is a zucchini, which is like this animated stop motion thing about like a orphan. Okay. Sound of metal. And then in the mood for love. And it's like all of those things that create me, even though, I don't want to make those movies that someone much more emotionally in tune with themselves are going to make those films. OK, someone a lot more, you know, better at that. That's not going to be me. And I love the people who make those movies. And that's just not what we're. as of now maybe down the line I would love to make you know we could branch out and do other films I think you know we've been told so many times like find your niche find your thing that you do and then you can always break it later so many comedy directors do that Adam McKay kind of found himself doing that Todd Phillips Ben Stiller even did that Severance that's just every Jordan Peele like all these comedy they'll you get to the, yeah, Mike, oh my God. Great. Yeah. You know, you always come around to this other, you always will discover something in you that, you know,

Speaker 04: 1:37:30

will

Speaker 05: 1:37:30

change down the line. And I'm sure that'll happen. Um, Coen brothers even kind of did that when they split off and Macbeth now, and like, you

Speaker 03: 1:37:37

know, all these, yeah. And so for now we'll just make people laugh. Yeah. We just want to entertain.

Speaker 01: 1:37:41

That's awesome.

Speaker 03: 1:37:42

Great.