First Act Break
Insights on finding success in the film industry — by young filmmakers, for young filmmakers. Hosted by USC film directors Jiayang Liu and Richard Li.
First Act Break
How to Run a Successful Film Production Company while in College | Harlow Schuman
Welcome to episode 9 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry.
Today, we bring on Harlow Schuman a USC film director who runs his own successful film production company Farlight Productions while still attending college. We talk about the what it takes to run such a company, his experience at USC, and philosophies about art and life.
The entertainment industry is a difficult thing to break into, and you need to be able to go a long time without being broken by burnout. And I have said I am going to make this happen, and I haven't given myself any ways out. I actually haven't done any internships, and it's not because I haven't been doing anything. I've been doing a lot of different sets, but I've been taking the time and doing that because for me, That is what is working. I saw you DP'd a feature film, right? Yeah, yeah. That was an experience. We shot it for, I think it was like $4,000 or $5,000. Oh, wow. 14 days. We get to USC, and the very first day they sit us down, and they say, look to your left, look to your right. These are the people you're going to be working with for the rest of your life. And that is so true. The way SCA takes applications, and they don't want you to know this, but everyone sort of knows it once you get here. Welcome back to another episode of the first Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry. Today we have Harlu, who is a USC film director and the president of Farlight Productions. Yes. And you are one of the only people in our cohort who's very entrepreneurial-minded. Thank you. And you've started your own production company, and that will be a huge topic we'll be talking about today. Sweet, and so have you. I'm going to ask those questions right back at you. Yeah, thank you guys so much for having me on today. I'm super excited to be here. So how did you get into like filmmaking, you know? Yeah, I think for me it was a bunch of variables and I've always been super visual. I've been taking photos since I was super young using my mom's camera because she's a photographer for a hobby and so camera just lying around and picked it up. One day I got an iPod and I just started like taking videos of my cats pretty much and yeah. started making little shorts of that. And then in middle school, I just would take my camera to school, take videos, and then I realized I could turn into a narrative. And I made little things of our robotics team at school. And then I made a thing following one of my friends around for a day, just what he went through. He was an athlete. He was really smart. So it was just super middle school following him around. And then going into high school, I decided to just make small things independent things, just me pretty much, and quickly found some friends who had similar interests, and we just made a ton of shorts, and I, because I'm from LA, and there's so much industry here, I felt super lucky in that I was actually able to get on a set. I took a film class at a summer school and um the professor of that had me on as a PA and um getting to see that going into sophomore year of high school was incredible like being on like a sound stage and seeing a red weapon and like um big lights and we were using like a 10k and I was sitting over there on the 10k dimmer just like doing this for like some lightning effects and um that was really amazing and uh the actual really incredible thing about that set for me is um the focus puller had to leave. And they were like, hey, PA, come pull focus. And I hit the marks. And they had me on for a second day. And that was my first set experience. I'd say that was the day I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. Dude, that's awesome. And I saw you DP'd a feature film, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's still in post-production. Super excited for that to come out. And hopefully December. But I mean... That was an experience. We shot it for, I think it was like four or $5,000. 14 days, 16 hours a day. Just putting everything into it.
Speaker 00:Did you guys have a break in between? We had one day. Just one day in between the 16 days. How did you
Speaker 01:guys manage to do it with only like 5,000? Yeah, I mean, we... One of our friends worked or had an internship at Aperture. So we got access to like eight case of MCs and two 600s. And we had some gels. We had two light stands and no lighting mods or anything. So we were the flags. We just like stand in front, like shake the light a little bit. A lot of standing very still. I just had my camera and we bought and returned a lens kit. And Um, it was, uh, it, it was really amazing. The, uh, director and actress are dating and they came together with this really beautiful ballet story and went to production and it was a grueling process because of the long hours, but we're also passionate about it. And like, it was actually his second feature and, um, he's a USC grad as well, but, um, it was, uh, my first feature working on my first feature and it was amazing. it was incredible it was uh it gave me perspective on what it takes to make a short versus what it takes to make a feature and i feel like when you're really putting your all into it it's not as far apart as we think
Speaker 00:is this uh caleb by any chance yeah from uh 4085 yeah yeah that's cool i've uh that was my first set was with him as well that was really cool yeah My friend Fabio was also on that set. Yeah, I know Fabio. He's sweet. He's super sweet. But congrats. I mean, that's huge. Going from shooting shorts to feature, that must be a huge jump.
Speaker 01:Yeah, I mean, since then it's been all shorts. Those are the passion projects we have, you know? I feel like one of the things about being in film school is so much is thrown at us to... figure out like what sticks pretty much like throwing a spaghetti on the wall and shorts allow you to recycle through ideas so much faster work with so many more people so i think like in the student realm like making shorts makes the most sense did you you said you shot for 14 days right yeah how many pages per day were you guys shooting oh it varies a lot um there were some longer conversations and there were some uh shorter scenes like for example you A stunt is one line, you know, like she gets in a car crash. And that's one line on the script, but that's a whole day of productions. And we shot all the car scenes in a very interesting way. And of course, shooting on that low budget was pretty guerrilla. But it turned out really well. We had a clear vision and we executed it. That was the big thing. Like the thing that took the most mental strain wasn't even the shoot days. It was after the shoot, after like having being on set for 12, 14 hours, going and planning like the next five days. because like we all know like while we're making films there's the script you have that's one story then the story you're shooting and the story that comes out in the edit and what's happening with this one is there was actually a bunch of rewriting and some reshoots and then it's still being finished up I think they have a final lock on it but very much like the number of pages depends I feel like pages aren't always the biggest thing factor. I'd say on average we were probably doing like six pages a day but there were some days where like it was just like oh we're just shooting in this kitchen and we're getting all of the conversations in this kitchen in the same setup the actors very gratefully were able to they were great so they switched from scenes like we're shooting a scene at the beginning then costume change they get into a different mental space and we go we shoot a scene towards the end of the film and like it's like just minimizing that so that's what i mean like it was jumping around like conversation very packed into the middle of production at the beginning of production was scenes that were like much longer and towards the end of the production we were just picking up all the pieces we needed to get so like stuff that had more extras or whatever because we were shooting it over summer because we're students and our main community is college right now so many people are out of town so it was also just like figuring out how to crew and how to get everyone on board to like make it happen so it was contained it was small and that's what made it possible that's great dude that's like super ambitious for like you know our level of filmmaking you know and i do wonder like when do you think is right for someone to like direct or shoot their first feature film like when is it yeah to take that leap i mean if you have a script you're happy with and you have the means to do it like do it because i what i was saying before about like being able to recycle through shorts quicker is um like you're in that mental space for that project for a certain amount of time and like For me, and I can guess for you guys, we're creatives, our mind wanders. And if you're so passionate about something that you're able to put the amount of energy it takes to get any film made, especially at feature length, do it. If you feel it's ready and you're passionate about it and you want to see it, I don't think anyone should tell you you're not ready. If you have the means to do it, do it. Yeah. In terms of if you're pitching stuff out and everything, yeah, shorts make great proof of concepts for features, and sometimes that's a way to do it. For example, your 310 film, which of course we're going to talk about. I hope you know that. That would be a great proof of concept because I don't know what your plans are with it, but that is such a kernel of a great story. And if you're able to execute that, in a short length and make someone care about a character in five minutes, you can definitely make someone care about someone in an hour and a half, two hours. So I'd say it really depends. For me, I'm writing right now and I'm halfway through my first feature and I'm starting my second feature because I want to write something that is more contained that I could shoot soon because I want to challenge myself and just get... into the space to direct a feature. And I've seen it from the director of photography side, but I want to direct one. So whenever I get a script that I'm happy with, I'm going to shoot it. I feel ready to be able to do it in a contained way. That's great. Yeah.
Speaker 00:I'm curious if you had the chance to DP the first feature or direct the first feature either, or which one would you pick and why? I'm glad I DP'd at
Speaker 01:first. I definitely came into film school thinking I was more of a DP than a director. And I think that's because that's mainly what I was exposed to. I love the technical aspect and it's really easy to get that from YouTube. Watching like behind the scenes videos and documentaries like I love all those featurettes and actually I got the experience to Shoot and I'm making one for a film. That's not out yet. Um That that was a really incredible experience to be on a like a bigger budget feature with some really big leads and talented Producers and a USC grad director. It was his first feature. He was writer director of it. Um, and Yeah, it was a really cool set. Um, I but going back to the question starting with a dp credit was nice because i got to see the inner workings of it and definitely at that time i was nowhere near a place where i could direct a feature but i i shot it i am still like obviously working and studying to be a better director and grow into that and um like DPing in its simplest form is like, how can you capture the action that's going on? So like, worst comes to worst, you just have some wide shots and some closeups and you just shoot it really conservatively, really classically. When you figure out how to do that in most scenes, you can add style to it. And that's what we really focused on with this feature was just sort of like, developing a consistent style. It changed over the course of the shoot, but it did feel contained. So like definitely for me, And I wouldn't say this should be the same, and it probably is the same for some people, but I don't think there's any right route, if that makes sense. For me, DPing first was definitely the right route. I love that shirt, by the way. Thank you, dude. Who designed the logo? The logo, I actually hired someone to design it. I knew I wanted to do some sort of film-related thing, and the name Far Light comes from the Farsight Key Light technique, which is my favorite way to light. any subject i feel like there's always a way to make it far side and even if it's um a little more complex. Like if they're pushed up against the wall or something, you get creative with how to do it. But I think it's the prettiest. So that's where the name comes from. And I was like, okay, the logo has to do something with light, something with film. And he just came up with this. That's sick. It's so simple and it's beautiful.
Speaker 00:Talk a little bit about the production company. Like what made you start
Speaker 01:something like this and where you see it going? Yeah, I mean... I've done a lot of work independent. That's the main thing I've done. That's what we all do at this time. Most of us aren't signed on to any agency or working for a company that's producing content year-round. Originally, I wanted to create a company as a loan out for myself. to pretty much say, instead of hiring me, you're hiring this company, which is me. We're just gonna have a called Harlow Schumann Productions or something like that. And then freshman year, I met Christoph Miriam, who's my business partner in this. And I was like, okay, I want to do more than just that. I wanna have a space where we can make films, where we're choosing what's happening and we have that creative control. And... Yeah, so that's how I got like the idea for it, created it. I brought Christoph on really early and like still standing and we decided we wanna keep a really tight team. So when we do projects, we have a, we've done a few commercial things, just some different gigs here and there for stuff like treat people in UCLA. We did stuff for a dentist, like bunch of different commercial stuff. However, our focus is narrative and to be able to do these different things keeping a small crew it's just us and having hiring independent contractors on a project by project basis allows us to have maximum flexibility work with a lot of the other people and not have to bring them into a complicated system it's just like working on set and I think being able to work with your friends the greatest pleasure and I think that's part of the reason we all do this so that's awesome and like for this you know how do you go about finding these clients that you work with Yeah, I mean, I truly think when you're putting energy into something, that energy sort of surrounds you, and you get it in return. And for narrative stuff, a lot of that really is writing. And at the time, I didn't have anything, but I was like, I am in a place where we've now created this company, we've laid the groundwork for it, and I want to make something. So I started a... screenwriting competition there was 30 days pretty much to submit it was anything up to 25 pages um no restrictions on content we would be the deciders of whether we like the content or not um and we we hired i think it was like five or six different people to read the submissions i think we got around 30 scripts it's like five time zones six colleges um like we got a good amount of interest which was amazing to see and um the range of scripts was really wide like we had we had a choice and um we went through the process nailed it down to three took the names off them because those three happened to be USC scripts sent them out to 12 different readers and uh just have them vote on which they like best and um we happened to agree with their choice and we produced and uh made Love is Fucked which is directed by Sidney Lazar who is a very wonderful person um and um she's genuinely the best she's so talented yeah so that's the only narrative piece that we've made solely with the company and now it's in festivals we completed it probably about six months ago and um Now we've been so engrossed in school that we're juniors. I'm sure we're going to get into talking about more about like the school aspect and balance and all that. But yeah, it's a lot to balance. So like I want to have consistency with the company and going back to what you're saying about bringing clients, having that consistency and having that constant flow of energy. Everyone needs content nowadays. Everyone needs stuff made, whether it's a celebrity who is releasing a book, who needs you to go out on six-hour shoots and deliver eight Instagram deliverables and a few stills. Everyone needs that promotion. us we have those skills at hand and in between bigger projects like it's so easy to just like go out and do that so like doing them as a few favors here and there oh that was really good someone thanks you for it you you do the project for free but afterwards They're like, wow, that was really helpful. Thank you so much. Here's like 100 bucks. Here's 300 bucks. And then being like, do you have time for more of this? And just saying yes. And I think that's the biggest thing. It's like saying yes and challenging yourself to keep that up. And I want to grow this bit into something where I have more people doing this too. And we're starting that process right now. And being able to just keep that consistency. And when you're consistently available for something and you create that space for it, that one person tells one more person, tells two more people, tells three more people, and then eventually it catches on. Wow, dude, that's great. And I'm curious though, how are you and Kristoff's like, you know, responsibilities different, right? Because you guys are both, you know, co-founders of this company. How do you guys delegate work to each other and stuff? Yeah, I think it works out really well because the things we want to do have so much overlap, but we don't want to do the same thing. He's a producer. I'm a director. We both love DPing. So there's that flexibility where we share a love for cameras and the technical aspect and everything else but it's not ruled by the technical aspect. I love story. I love characters. I love love. I love relationship stories, family stories, all that. That's what I like telling. Kristoff loves telling so many stories, and I don't want to speak for him about the specific stories he wants to tell, but the place he comes from it is a... more managerial, like administrative perspective where he's bringing his creativity and saying, okay, how do we make this happen on this budget? How do we get these things together? We're shooting in this location that's hard to get. How are we gonna do it? What deals are we gonna cut? What are we going to sacrifice and change that keeps the story purpose? And then he'll check in with me and I'll say, yeah, that story concept still stands. Like a big example, one of my mentors was one of the producers for The Walking Dead. He's a professor here at USC and he told me that for the first episode of the walking dead the script called for a tank rolling down residential streets with a soldier sticking out the top of it with a megaphone saying the world's ending you know stay indoors and they didn't have the budget for that like bringing a tank onto residential streets like rolling like what if the street cracks like under the weight of the tank like there's so many concerns and like it was just so expensive one day on set they just flipped the camera up to a lapd helicopter and did a voiceover of the same message and like it It's the same story concept. It gets the same thing across. And like... When you're getting the story across, so much can change. Right now, I'm producing a film that was originally based on a sandwich shop. And it covers one of the workers there who is on his first closing shift, who encounters a lot of wacky things. However, we couldn't find a sandwich shop. We're doing this super low budget. This is for Trojan Filmmakers Club. And what we ended up getting is a pizza place. So a little script rewrites, now it's a pizza place. Like those things that you learn to creatively adapt. And... going back to where our responsibilities differ. We love the same thing. I also love producing, but it's definitely not my calling. And the fact that it's his and we split that so evenly, so naturally is the reason why that this company is possible. Right. I'm curious though. With your company, where do you see it being in 15, 20 years? Is there any other similar companies that you hope to get to their level, like maybe, for example, Neon, A24, something like that? Is there any companies that you would compare yours to? Yeah, that's a really good question. Thank you. I think so much of it is I've actually been learning to not focus on that too much because... I feel like every time I hear a story of a company who succeeded, it's different every single time. My goal at this present moment, which I know is gonna change, is to have some sort of deal with a studio who has the ability to finance a film. And then we basically have a negative pickup deal where we could get access to those funds to create a story that we're pitched or we write or whatever it is that we can then crew and have full creative control over and final cut and everything and then have the payroll and budget managed by some larger studio or larger production company that has those finances because I... really want to be... I'm a creative. I don't want to deal with paperwork or the administrative side of things. I don't want to... I don't want this to become a thing like A24 where they have this absolute success and they constantly create the most amazing films that are mind-blowing every single time. Look at The Brutalist right now. It's every single one of their films. They're incredible. But that scope of production... is so managerial and I just want to focus on the creative. So the ability to be able to pick up films when we want, how we want, and I'm still doing stuff on my own without Farlight. I go and DP things that it's just me DPing. I want to have my own creativity outside of the company, but have the company be the place where I can create the stories that I think need to be told at that time. That's awesome.
Speaker 00:Would you ever want to venture into the more studio filmmaking? There's obviously like a divide between, you know, the Sean Baker types, you know, fund raise, you know, five, $6 million versus, you know, something like the new Jurassic park movie, which is, I don't even know how much that thing costs, but yeah. Do you want to, you know, maybe one day venture into that world or do you maybe want to stay within the realm of like, creativity you know final cut and all that
Speaker 01:yeah I mean I would love to venture into that of course like I mean I think so many of us would love the chance at that and I'm definitely not going to say no if that comes up but I mean I just like I want to make the stories that call to me and especially I cannot see myself directing anything that I'm not personally passionate about so I don't want to be solely in a studio system where we're like pumping out films on a timeline to meet like like quotas like q1 through q4 like i i don't want to be dealing with that however as a creative would i like to be brought on to projects of that scale absolutely that would be a dream
Speaker 00:great Is there any specific studios you want to
Speaker 01:collaborate with? Because you said you want to do a pickup deal with the studio. Is there any dream ones? Searchlight, for sure. I love Searchlight. Fox Searchlight, yeah. Everything they do, I'm a big Wes Anderson fan. I love his two new recent movies, Astrid City and The French Dispatch. I think they're both masterpieces. 500 Days of Summer, everything Searchlight creates, I love. I love. I have Letterboxd. I barely use it. I really should use it more. But no, I mean, if I was the Letterboxd, like most of the Searchlight movies, I'd... I'd say they personally connect with me or resonate with me in some way. No, I was actually going to ask you a question. I'm going to flip it around. Okay. What do you want to do with your company? Because, like, Luminary is, like, I told you this off camera, but it's such a beautiful name. It's so articulate. And I feel like it already has so much, like, going for it. You have films on there right now. Like, you're doing something with cultivating this idea community of films made by people we know, made by yourself. I want to hear your thoughts. Is that what you want to continue doing or do you want to branch out? What do you want to do with your company? Thank you for asking. This company, I hope it's a brand where it you know, our goal with Luminary is first to spotlight like new emerging talent, you know, to bring great artists who are, you know, aspiring directors and making, developing their projects with them and producing them. And then two is to shed light on like societal issues. I think stories have the power to change the world really. And I want to have it as a medium where we do show the things that are happening to this world instead of ignoring them to really bring them to the forefront of the conversation. And three, I think is to give light. to people's lives, you know, to have that fun entertainment thing for them to, you know, if you are having a bad day, you watch a Luminary movie and you're just like happy, you know, excited, inspired. And I think that's our goals for this company. And whether future directions, I hope it's just to make it more producing oriented where we develop scripts we get, you know, we have people hopefully to pitch to us in the future and, you know, bring these stories to life because they're just an infinite amount of stories that needs to be told and I hope just to use this brand to tell them. And also my own directorial stuff would also go part of this company as well. Yeah, you're an incredible director. And I just want to take a second and applaud you for that. Everything I've seen from you is so beautifully executed. And I really believe you encapsulate what your intention with the piece is. And I think that's so important. Thank you so much. Talking about that secondary... entertainment value, you know? Like, what do we walk away with it? Right. And I completely agree with you that stories have the power to change people. And what I want to do is, like, just be able to change one person. Like, I don't care really about, like, some larger audience. Like, I just want one person. Yeah. And I heard someone's definition of success recently, which is, like, in a creative sector, for them is they want their films to be seen by mass audiences. And that, to them, when they get there, that is... how they will know they succeeded and i completely respect that and i would love for that to happen with me but i think really my definition of success is one when i can create a film that someone can come up to me after and say that changed my life or that changed my perspective on something or that made me reconnect with my family something like that
Speaker 00:No, absolutely. Speaking of change, walk us through how your experience is like at USC. I mean, that must be a huge transition for most of us who go to film school, going from high school, just making films on the side to, you know, basically fully committing your time and energy with people who you can collaborate with. What was that like for you?
Speaker 01:Yeah, I mean, we get to USC and the very first day they sit us down and they say, look to your left, look to your right. These are the people you're going to be working with for the rest of your life. And that is so true usc has done an incredible job bringing the people into the same room to now where we're talking together yeah and collaborating with each other on this podcast and on narratives in the future i'm so excited to work with you on and work with you on and like it's something that uh has really shaped the experience. Like, we are told that day one, and they have intention telling us that. Something that I think has definitely changed coming into USC is, like I said before, I thought I'd be more of a DP, but I'm definitely shifting more towards directing now. And just, like, that shift is a very large one. This semester, I decided, you know what? I'm going to take a step back from directing any, like, short... films that i'm like writing and whatnot and i'm taking two directing classes and i'm really trying i'm taking directing comedy live which comedy live is amazing if you're at usc i highly highly recommend it the entire trojan vision program the 409 class specifically the morning brew which i did for a long time i was i directed them and that professor jared hoffman is absolutely incredible um and just Trojan Vision in general and everything in the Zemeckis building is like such a treasure that we have it and I've just been trying to explore that so Comedy Live is one thing it's like an SNL type show there's a live audience and we direct skits and pre-record skits so it's a big production process but it's a lot of directing and we get 20 minutes to rehearse a skit like we read the script it gets cast in 20 minutes it's ready to show so it's learning how to be incredibly concise and hit comedic beats that are already written for you. And if it's not working, and if it reads on the page, but doesn't work in action, how are you gonna change it? How are we gonna collaborate with the actors and the writer who's sitting there to achieve your vision of what you have read? The other one is directing practical, which we're taking for our major. And again, just like, it's really incredible to see the words to describe feelings like figuring that out I think is the most important thing is being able to talk to someone and rather than say like make this more sad make this more happy being concise and saying and connecting with them whether you're telling a story about your own life to get them to open up and to gain that trust but when you have that trust you can really dig into something and like learning to talk to your actors in a way that that gets them to have a tangible shift in their performance that's character motivated, whether it's even attacking the line differently. Like if they're reading something that's a little too aggressive, you want us to be more backhanded, you know, and being able to like clearly state that is something that has shifted for me. Something that I, I know a lot of technical stuff about cameras, lights, whatever, but like, And numbers are easy to articulate. I feel like feelings are much harder to articulate. And one of the things USC does so well is it teaches us how to articulate that.
Speaker 00:Yeah. What was that thing that shifted
Speaker 01:your goal of becoming a DP to a director now? I guess it was just the feeling of it. I just found myself wanting to do it. And it's challenging. I feel like directing, you're acting too. Because not only are you... directing outwardly, but whatever feelings you might have, you are also running the ship on set. And leadership is something that is very natural for some people, not as natural for others, but I think the constant for anyone who is a great leader, whether they become the great leader or they just are a great leader, is they're able to keep high energy and keep motivation. The biggest thing I've heard is know everyone's name. And that's advice I've been trying to take to heart is just learning everyone's name. I've heard of directors who will call up a sheet of everyone with a headshot and memorize everyone's name to their face. And then on the first day of production, like the director on a big thing, going up to a PA and being like, oh my God, Michael, oh my God, like whoever, and just being able to like say like their name, say like their position and knowing that person just makes people feel cared for and seen. And we're all doing this because we have stories to tell. No matter what our position is, the only reason to take a job in this industry is if you love it. Because if you are here for the money, there's more money in so many other places. And you have to have the love for it. And when you are able to cultivate someone else's love on set and get everyone to work towards a collective vision, I think that's key. And wanting to do that something that shifted me towards yeah directing i mean dude you seem you seem like a natural born leader you know thank you i feel like you're so charismatic where you people just like are very attached to you and like just understand their very your presence you know thank you that's a really big compliment coming from you of course man and i do want to hear about um some of your set experiences because you do talk about You've been on a lot of sets. What are some of the coolest sets you've been on? Yeah. So this feature that I was just, I was EPK, which is the electronic press kit. When you see not as much the stills, but the videos that come out of a production, all the behind the scenes videos, that was my job to capture. And the unique thing about that is I was working with the producers and the director very closely because the producers are the ones talking to the studio who are on set saying, this is what we want to captured you know we're doing a stunt this day make sure you're here this day make sure you're talking to the stunt coordinator like it was the marvel stunt team make sure you're talking to them you know or i'd be like okay go talk to the production designer like like do this do this and when you enjoy working with someone, you become their friend. And I feel like I have all these friends I've met that have been so accepting of a student, just not only like interviewing them and like taking random videos of them doing stuff, but they've fielded my questions and they've given me so much knowledge about what it was, but they've also shown me that it's okay to like ask and talk to them or text them. And so many of them like are so excited when they hear from me. And like, that community on the set was so special it was filled with just firecrackers and a lot of usc grads uh so fight on but um it was uh just a really incredible experience i think that was one of the coolest things like the size of the production was bigger than anything else i've been on um especially for that period of time i was there for the whole production pretty much right um And even though I wasn't on set all days, I was there from the start to the finish. Yeah, so that was incredible. And I don't know the budget. I think it was around 5 million. They had like 10 tons of grip. They blocked out an entire house and completely artificially lit it. So we had daytime the entire time. And one of the cool stylistic things is at one point, the house is like haunted. And... it becomes monochromatic, but it's red and black. So the only light coming in from all the windows and everything is completely 100% red. And it's this gorgeous, gorgeous vision. And I was just sitting there with my camera, and I was like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm capturing this. They had the Alexa fully rigged out, hanging 20 feet in the air off the side of a Chapman dolly doing this overhead dolly move. And I was like, oh my God, that's so cool. Or seeing the DIT person at work and just like asking them all the time. Cause I was constantly filling their tent. Cause it was a two monitor. Like he had like seven keyboards, like the DMX rig over here, live grade over here, live grades really cool because it was receiving the cameras feeds at full quality, recording them, sending them out to a hard drives, like complete data intake there. But also they had all of the information from the camera the runtime the frame rate the f-stop everything and just seeing that and how efficient that is and it automatically gets paired with the audio sent off to a temp editor to fill scenes because if you're running behind on the day being able to cut together the scene and know if you're coming back to it know if you need any pickups the next day when you arrive to set was amazing because this was pretty much shot in one location uh we didn't have to take anything down. between days, so camera would just stay up, it would just stay on the dolly. Batteries, of course, go to charging, the lights stay up, the tents stay up and everything, and it's LA and we knew it wasn't gonna rain. And that was just really incredible to just see how that works at that level, and then to bring that knowledge back to my productions. And my first purchase after that was a time code kit from Deity, because I was like, okay, I just need my cameras to sync up. that makes everything easier,
Speaker 00:right? I'm curious though. I mean, it must be, like you said, it's at such a bigger scale than most of the stuff that we do at our level. But if you were to draw like a Venn diagram of that production versus, you know, a student production, what would you say is a common thread between the two that contributes to the success of the film ultimately?
Speaker 01:Yeah, I mean, I really think like to tell a story, like you could tell it without anything if you have the emotionality to tell it. And... community i think is the biggest thing uh making friends like just having being on a set where the experience feels like welcoming and feels motivating and that you want to go there every day and when the call time's six in the morning it's an hour drive that's a big ask yeah and having a group of people who are so passionate about you about your work personally passionate about the project, when you can bring all that together, you can make anything work on any scale. And I've seen that at USC, which is the same thing I saw on that production. Like we work ourself so much, whether we're staying up editing until six in the morning or we're, after editing until six in the morning going to sleep for two hours and waking up getting ready and going to set at nine in the morning and then working for another 12 hours like we've all put so much time and energy into everything that is this work that we love um the love is what makes production sound i'd say that's the biggest thing because like any equipment needs to be story motivated, you know? Like, you could shoot on the nicest, newest cameras, but if what the story calls for is, like, a home videotape, that's not going to feel authentic. So if you're shooting a movie about a home videotape in one house with two people, like, you couldn't make the same production that you would for $10 million, for $500 for props and, like, a DV tape. Like... As long as you have the storytelling. That's the biggest thing. And that's what they nail into us here in film school. And that's the similar experience I've heard too. All my friends at film school, whether it's Chapman or LMU or NYU, they all say what the most fun they've had on set is when they're happy with what's being created and they're enjoying the people that are around. And I really think reflecting myself... I've been on some larger productions that I'm getting paid for that I've had nowhere near as fun as like, for example, shooting that feature where I was so engrossed in the production that I didn't mind getting like two, three hours of sleep to make it happen. Definitely. Talk about how you got into USC. What was the application process for you? What did you make for your film, and what did you write on your essays and stuff? Yeah, so as I talked about earlier, I knew I wanted to go to film school, and I'm very grateful that my mom was so supportive of that. She was incredibly supportive of me going to film school. And... she's also very creative and uh she knows i'm very creative and i cannot see a world in which i was gonna be at a nine to five sitting in the same place i want to be on different sets and different experiences and shooting over the world and shooting in la and like everything all combined but um i think getting into school like i i didn't i actually applied to like seven schools really which was way under what my college counselor in high school was telling me to do but i toured some schools and i was that have great film programs that i've heard so much amazing things about and i was just like i just can't see myself being happy there and i didn't apply because i knew i wouldn't say yes because i wouldn't be happy there whether i'm i'm a big surfer so like i need to be close to the ocean i need to be able to like go on hikes like have like that environment. I am also very glad I'm close to family here. So I knew like I would probably go to college in LA or near LA, San Diego, Santa Barbara, something like that. And yeah, one of the things I did that I think helped me the most actually is I said no to standardized testing because I knew that it wasn't going to be, like it was going to be test optional. because this was going through COVID and we were the second year of it being test optional. And before they even confirmed it wasn't going to be, I was like, okay, there's no way it's going to be like test mandated, standardized test needed. So I was in for the ACT at the time. And I was like, I'm just sort of like done with this. I'm putting... Like nine to twelve hours per week studying for this because I wanted to get a really good score And I was like, okay instead of that I could just be making films So I just would shoot films with my friends I would write little things and we'd shoot on a weekend or in a day or two and like cut it together and just like I I think senior year of high school. I did 14 films and that was a long period of time and um Senior year is senior year. There's less assignments, I feel like. So it opened up the space to do that. But even before that, because that was after applying to USC, I worked on eight or nine people's application films for film schools. And whether that was being the DP on it or just crewing one of my sound ops for one of my friends. And mostly it was DPing, though. And that goes back to, like, I really thought I was going to be solely a DP. And I learned so much in that. And I was probably on track for getting about the average score for an ACT, but that's not going to help. What would help me, because I was so set on film school, is doing that. So what I'd say is, like, for prospective kids, and I told this one guy who is applying to film school for this project, next year um he's like a junior right now in high school is i was like focus on the things that are going to make you most creatively fulfilled because if you're doing this creative passion, it's different than just like choosing a school with a number one program. You need to choose a school that lines up for you. The thing that lines up so well for me with USC is the focus on storytelling and passion. And I feel like I've seen that consistently in the student body. I've seen that in you and I'm so excited to get to know you more because I guess the reason that you two have collaborated so much is because you share that passion. You share that enthusiasm. So much of it is just finding that community. And then the other half of it is setting yourself up. I had great grades in high school. I was pretty academic. But aside from that, extracurriculars. For me, I had the opportunity to be on set. But even if you're not able to be on set, if you're... studying and you get certifications for Premiere or certifications for Adobe. Adobe does a few different certifications for Adobe Atmos. It really depends on if you want to be technical or more camera-wise. You could be taking classes, a big one. Almost everyone I've talked to in SCA said that they took some sort of USC summer class. Did you? Yeah. I did a little bit. Did you? I did not. No. Then I took one. So even so, like, that's two out of three of us in the room. You know what I mean? Like, I love that. I took I forget what the exact class is called. I think it was CNTV 407. or CNTV 415. Oh no, it's a summer class about directing commercials. And I loved that class so much. I spent so much time on it. I ended up actually making a ad for Wags and Walks, which is a dog rescue and shelter in Los Angeles. And they've actually expanded now and they're in New York. And I think they're also in Nashville or somewhere, but they're expanding, they're doing really well. My family loves Wags and Walks. We have a Wags dog, big, big animal family. We love cats and dogs and every animal. But I grew up around them and being able to create something that would like maybe get a dog adopted, you know, like that filled my bucket so much. And that was something that I gained so much out of. And the teacher for the USC class saw it and he loved my thing and he wrote me the recommendation. So my recommendation for USC was from a USC professor. And I think that's something that's so incredibly important because the way SCA takes applications and they don't want you to know this, but everyone sort of knows it once you get here, is that USC gets your common up and SCA gets your supplemental and they don't see each other. USC will say yes or no. SCA will say yes or no. But SCA's yes or no is based on your portfolio and the essays that you're giving to SCA. So you want to create an application that tells you as a person something that I got told that was super powerful by a professor here who teaches an incredible class. The number is CTPR 458, Organizing Your Creativity. The professor is Daniel Noah. He's incredible. He said that The thing that you are most ashamed of, that if you think people found out about you, you would be completely and utterly rejected. If you make things, if you make narratives about that, you're going to strike someone else's heart because someone else feels the same as you do. And figuring out what that thing is for each of us and figuring out how to tell it and how to be okay with being vulnerable like that is something that is invaluable to not only us as creatives, but us as people. And if you're able to do that, and so many people think, oh my God, what am I going to do for my application video? If you do something that you're deeply passionate about, that it doesn't matter what other people think. If other people think it's weird, it doesn't matter. Make a film about it. And I almost guarantee if you do that and you can make someone else feel something out of it, that person is going to say yes to you being here.
Speaker 00:Wow, that's great. And I think I know what my next film is going to be about. I'm not going to say it, though. You just have to wait and see. Fair enough. Wow, that's really profound. Actually, I love that. Just making something that puts yourself out there without the filter, without trying to mask who you really are and being true to your audience. I think that
Speaker 01:is
Speaker 00:so powerful.
Speaker 01:And it's okay to fail at that too. Whether it's realizing that, oh my God, I wasn't actually as passionate about this as I thought and dropping a project or dropping whatever, that's a difficult thing. Because we all are told not to burn bridges. And like, I really think it's the best advice to not burn bridges, but like having honest conversations with those people, even if you think you're gonna be rejected by that person, just explaining your ultimatum to them of like, I realized that I really don't wanna do this. Like even just in that most difficult situation of, feeling scared of burning a bridge and feeling rejected in that manner, learning to have those conversations is so valuable and it'll really put you on your best path. If people know you and your reputation that supersedes you is that you're honest, that is, I think, one of the biggest compliments.
Speaker 00:I'm curious, did you have an experience like that where you wanted to say yes but eventually said no to a project or- A ton, yeah. What was that experience like and- Um, yeah,
Speaker 01:I've been asked now I something else I did in high school is I submitted my films to festivals. And I would just there's a few festivals. A lot of them are around Los Angeles, but there's a lot in LA and New York. And I think there's some in Chicago, whatever. But pretty much you just pay for an official selection. And then if you win an award, that's great. But when you apply on Film Freeway, you get an official selection pretty much for applying. And it's a lot of these monthly film festivals. And that's a great way to rack up laurels. And when people started to see it, I started to win gold cinematography awards or stuff like that. These smaller festivals. And being able to attach that to films I've DP'd. And... that has opened me up to people being like, oh, well you DP this and whatever. But I feel like if I really don't see behind the vision, I will not be able to bring that thing to the forefront that I was talking about with the feature a few minutes ago of shooting a scene that's supposed to be shot classically and putting a creative twist on it that is motivated by the story. And if I'm not passionate about the story and about those ideas, I don't want to put myself in a place where I'm going to create something that I'm not incredibly happy with, especially because at the level that we're doing things now as juniors and as people who have been on a large amount of sets we know what it takes to get a scene made now we know what it takes to get a show made and I'm not going to put myself through that and put in all that effort when I can be doing that for something I'm more passionate about and we're always told to say yes and I really think that's like the best policy is saying yes to someone but if you're being asked to do a creative role for something that you don't have creative interest in I think you can put more respect to them and more respect to yourself by learning how to say no to a project without offending someone. And that's a difficult thing, and that's really hard to do. It's also just knowing that person and like weighing the cost because sometimes like, and this sort of contradicts what I was saying, but I think that it makes sense together that there could be a project that you just don't care about whatsoever. However, you just want to work with a person so badly and you want to see how they are on set. You want to see them in like directing shoes or you want to see them in a like producing shoe and you're coming onto this project in a creative role. If you manage that expectation beforehand and you're clear about like, I don't quite get this part. So in the creative development of this, I want you to take the lead on this part because I don't see this part. And being able to have conversations like that opens you to creating a better product because your focus then becomes what you want it to be. And you're not having to sit down and do something that you're supposed to be passionate about and feeling like you're obligated to do it. And I feel like that's one of the worst things. And I have some really amazing friends who were... filmmakers and thought that they were going to do film. And the reason that they're no longer filmmakers is because they got burnt out by not being able to say no. And that is something that like, it's a difficult thing. But the other side of it is like, now they're happy because they found what they wanted to be doing because they were able to be burnt out of this. And the entertainment industry is a difficult thing to break into. And you need to be able to go a long time without being broken by burnout.
Speaker 00:Yeah, and we're also very busy people. Our
Speaker 01:schedules are constantly filled with classes and our films and stuff. Which is why I admire you being able to do this every Friday so much. That consistency is so important, and you guys are having this podcast, which, what, you've been doing this two weeks? Something
Speaker 00:like that? Yeah, two, three and a half weeks.
Speaker 01:Everyone's seen it. I had class this morning, and everyone was like, oh my god, this podcast. It's been popping up on every Instagrams and you guys are doing something right and like that consistency that passion thank you guys thank you thank you so much but I was just thinking you know what you said was really valid because you know you have to the best time management thing that keeps you organized is to say no to the things that you know you're not excited about yeah if someone were to build wanting to do the same as you building their own production company because you said the goal with your production company is so that once you're done with film school, you get to just work for yourself, right? And not having to worry about nine to five jobs. And I feel like most people who love film also don't want to be in an office the whole day for the rest of their lives, right? So what would you give them, like a step-by-step framework on building their own brand, business, or production company? Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that's going to work about my company is that we're focusing on narrative films. make it happen and to make it realistic, that's why we're doing those other media things that have nothing to do with narrative. Because I personally, I would love to direct commercial eventually as just like, not my main thing, of course, but I love commercial and I love that medium and it's such a quick, satisfying turnaround. But doing all these like more corporate things and whatever, like that's not what fills my creative soul. However, that's something that I think really creates something that will make my company work. What I'd say for anyone that's looking to start their company is an LLC is the best way to go because whatever capital that LLC has is all you can be sued for. And if you are working as a part of that company or anyone on your crew who has signed an independent contractor form, those are the people we bring on, the independent contractors, they're on for only that thing and they're protected by the company. So it gives you so much protection because you can't be sued for everything you're worth. You can't be sued for anything at all. The company itself is sued. And if the company has $5,000, then $5,000 is the max they could be sued for, you know? I'd say LLC is the way to go in terms of setup. For me, what really works is having a flatline structure. I'm not trying to be a CEO. My title is president, and that's because I am the creative director head of the company i'm deciding the direction that we're going in however i'm not doing that alone christoph has as much power and that is me because i don't want to do something without him and he doesn't want to do something without me and we happen to have a very similar vision which is why it works which is why if you're going to start a company either do it with yourself and bring in cons i can't i don't think you can be creative in a box by yourself you need I think for me, such a big part of my creativity is collaboration. And I really think that's how it is with everyone. That's how this industry is. If you're going to be a filmmaker, you are collaborating because you cannot shoot a film. That's just you unless you're Bo Burnham and he's incredible. But yeah, so decide how many people you actually want in your company. Create a system for bringing people on in a safe way that protects them. And then just have consistency because you can... have the want to start a company and when you truly have a reason to do it for me it's that protection and being able to have a uh something that's not directly attached to what my creativity is um so i could be working on other things for example the short film that we just did that was our company is a really incredible story but it's not a story that i have any place in telling because it's about a woman who has a miscarriage and that is not something that's in my wheelhouse to cover. And Sydney, who wrote and directed it, she absolutely killed it. She was able to embody that emotion and oh my God, it's a heart-wrenching performance that is on the screen. However, I was in a place to DP it. So I DP'd it and produced it. And... we actually kept a really tight creative vision because she has such a complete vision and for her it's the little pieces that build up the world it's not this world that has other little pieces in it which i think i see a lot in in films and um because of that unique drive certain shots sold other shots like 10 minutes down the line in the film and uh for that reason i also edited it because um she had that vision and i think putting it off to another editor who would have their own vision we shot it in such a particular way and it worked and that's so rare so we kept it tight we kept it close um and because of the way the company's designed we had the ability to do that because we don't have an editor on staff who would be the editor for that project we had the ability to bring an editor on or for us to edit ourselves um so like for me flexibility is a big one because I think creativity is like a waterfall and any type of water flows and sometimes it dries up sometimes it's just gushing but the path will always change a little and the water is never going to fall exactly the same way a drop is never going to hit the same leaf twice so having the ability to shift is I think incredibly important don't tie yourself down especially this young I don't know what's going to happen in three years I'd like to say I'd like to say we're making features but I can't say it for certain you know so I want the options
Speaker 00:Guillermo del Toro said if you're a painter or if you are a musician or whatever sometimes you know you can discover in their desk you know this unhidden or just hidden you know drawer of unpublished drawings or you know pieces of music but in terms of filmmaking that really isn't going to happen you're not just gonna you know find you know Guillermo del Toro's grave or you know Christopher Nolan's grave and all of a sudden they have like three features they never released and Because you just have to go out there and do it. And I think that's exactly kind of the spirit that you have with Farlight and everything. So I think that's the spirit we should all have as filmmakers. And it's the spirit I've seen in both of
Speaker 01:you too. You were just saying that you've been producing stuff. Even though you're not a production major, you realize you want to produce, whether that's your end goal or not. That's what you're enjoying and you're doing it. And you're doing the exact same thing, whether it's producing or directing. What are you doing for 480 again? Right? now like the crew position i'm second ading it so sweet yeah so one of the things that usc is our um capstone prep class is called 450 where we crew on one of the capstone projects and for that you are
Speaker 00:the second ad
Speaker 01:so i'm just kind of assisting the first ad on all the tasks just making the set run smoothly you know bringing the actors on and off set and like kind of just relaying information and just making everyone feel comfortable i guess yeah how has it been working under someone else's um set and creative influence while making everyone feel comfortable because I feel like such a thing that becomes so natural and you're an incredible director and you've directed quite a few things by now is you're the one that's fostering that environment Is that something you still find yourself doing as a second AD? Dude, I mean, I think everyone has the power to bring positivity and joy no matter what position you are. You could be a PA, you know, and you can still bring that joy to everyone. And I was just really fortunate enough where my team and the people above me, you know, the first AD and the directors, they're very, very passionate and also very positive people. And one of their main goals for the set was to have this environment where everyone felt very welcomed, very warm. And no, I have to a good time working with them and i'm gonna be on their set tomorrow so amazing weekend one of the 480 so that's gonna be fun that's right i'm super excited for weekend one and what position are you doing i'm gaffing so i'm pretty much choosing where the lights go to fit the dp's vision and it's nice we tackle light in a very similar way where we add it and then cut it to make it more precise and we're shooting a rom-com which has some lower contrast ratios it's pretty open it's very welcoming and warm so and which film was that it's called uh just friends oh sick that's gonna are you guys filming um on the stages tomorrow no tomorrow tomorrow we're shooting in a living room day for night cool oh wow nice nice what what are your guys uh like passions besides film do you do athletics like like skiing is that like like um like what's up
Speaker 00:i know uh for me i play ping pong sometimes with friends that's just like one way to just you know um just relax and forget about anything really um i do run i've been trying to run a lot lately i was a runner uh what do you run uh i don't like a run running as in like literally just like pure exercise but in high school i did rowing which is like crew and that's a lot of just long hours on the boat or even on like one of those machines that's called like an erg if you they have one of those or some of those at the village um gymnasium so i i've been doing that as well uh it's good aerobics but it also trains your leg and and your back as well so that's something i do just to you know stay fit and healthy and so that can be pretty intense sometimes you know long hours and um exhausting and so one way to keep up is to just stay fit which i know jiayang also does in a different way i did i grew up playing so many different sports
Speaker 01:but i think right now i really like flag football um just been playing with a lot of my friends and uh we do the intramural leagues so we have games like on sundays and stuff and it's it's a ton of fun yeah what about and you're a surfer right yeah as much as i can um i mean growing up by the beach it sort of sticks with you But yeah, it's been sort of crazy with the fires and now the rain and everything. And yeah, ocean's pretty out of commission around this area right now just for bacteria. But as soon as it's better, I cannot wait to get back. That's so cool. The thing I find really unique about surfing is it forces you to be okay with... things not going as planned in like a really crazy way because like the ocean is so unpredictable and even sometimes when there's like a great swell coming and you have like incredible expectations for like these big waves that are like perfect shapes and you're just so excited it can not be that way at all or sometimes you just feel out of your depth and like it'll be too big or you're put in like an uncomfortable environment it's learning to sort of just like relax like know that like you have the confidence in yourself to get out of it but also Like you can't tell the wave what to do and you can't tell the wave where it's gonna break. You need to learn to adapt and listen to the ocean. And I know that sounds sort of like a strange, but like it's really true. And that's why you hear so many surfers talking about it. But it's something that I think has really helped me as a filmmaker as well. Learning that to just move on your feet and go quick. And I think that's something you learn in a lot of sports is like you're reacting to what's around you And when you're sensitive to that, and you're sensitive not only to the things happening around you, but what people are feeling around you, that creates a massive opportunity for you to help in some way. whether that's creating a better product whether that's just checking in on someone or calling someone out for something that they could be doing better because frankly that's all we need to hear sometimes you know like we sometimes like aren't doing something bad out of malintent and I find a lot of the time that's what's happening is that it's not out of malintent it's just like not knowing better or not knowing what to do better and if someone calls you out on something in a collaborative and supportive way that is something that allows you to change and being able again to have those conversations and be honest about that like that's what it always comes back to and I know that shifted from sports but no I mean last night's conversation when we were eating dinner you said that you were like into spirituality and everything what are some like philosophies that you really hold close to you when it comes to creativity and like just life in general yeah I just started reading The Creative Act by Rick Rubin and I highly recommend it somebody's a fan of the book no I love that book yeah on one of the first pages it talks about how creative flows come at certain times which is why it's not uncommon for you to have an idea and if you don't pick that idea up it'll find its way through another maker and it's not because they're stealing your idea but it's because it's the idea's time to come and when you're creatively tapped into that and your antenna are on alert you're able to pick up those things and tell that story when it's ready to come to fruition. So that's why, again, going back to the thing I was talking about with surfing is being able to be responsive to a situation. And then what we're learning in school is how to be articulate about it. And when you combine those two things and you're able to get inspired, that's where inspiration comes from for me is that merge between what is interesting to me and what I feel and then what I want to do about it. And being able to sort of get from one place to another is where the goal is, I really think. Yeah, just in terms of like spirituality, I think like really everything happens for a reason. And like, I think that is what people mean by manifestation a lot of the time and whether or not you believe in being able to manifest something by focusing on it. What I think is a reality that we can all agree on is when you put more time and energy into something, there's more likelihood of that happening. And I've taken what I think is sort of a unique approach to this. And I have said, I am going to make this happen. And I haven't given myself any ways out. I actually haven't done any internships. And it's not because I haven't been doing anything. I've been doing a lot of different sets but I've been taking the time and doing that because for me that is what is working like I want to be having those experiences for me I would get so much out of having a script development internship where I'm able to see what other people are writing and be able to collaborate with the people who are saying yes or no to those scripts however the thing that's more aligned with what I want to do is being on set So I just had to listen to myself and go against advice to not take internships. And now it's working. Now I'm getting the chances to be on paid sets, like even like one day comedy skits being paid the equivalent of, I think it's about $40 an hour to just like be there and shoot it. That's great. And yeah, so like that's working very well. And that's because I listened to myself. and so much of what i grew up hearing from my mom is you need to learn who you are and being able to know what you want be in touch with yourself and not thinking what do i want oh i don't know but being able to go deeper than that and feel this is the direction i want to go in and then coming at it from a creative way and from a realistic way and saying, this is how I'm going to achieve it. And I think that's what we're all in film school for. I think that's one of the many ways to get into the industry. I don't think you need to be in film school to be a director or be a producer. Yeah, totally. It's whatever works for you. I actually know someone who was... What was their undergrad? Their undergrad was like... mechanical engineering or something like that. And now I just can't see them doing a math problem. They're solely focused on just creating weird analog black and white photographs of people in uncomfortable positions. And that's all they do. But it's like that shift for them, the way they put it, is I was so focused on being able to create a space in my life where I could do that art that I felt I was losing it. So I cut all the stuff I didn't want to be doing out, and I just started doing this more. And now he has a massive following. And he, I think, was putting it in a gallery or something, which is great for him. But it's because he followed his intuition. Yeah. And earlier you said you have a goal of hopefully one day having your company doing these deals with these studios, right, where they can finance the films and you guys have creative control. I know in the future everything's uncertain, anything could happen, but what do you kind of picture as the step-by-step to getting to that goal with your company, and how do you envision that to come to life? I think it starts with finding a script.
Unknown:Okay.
Speaker 01:when I find a script that I think will be a film that I'm passionate about to put that amount of time into to direct. whether it's something I write, which it probably will be, or maybe it's something that someone else gives me that I want to write. And I know I was talking to you about this screenwriter who I was connected with who writes these really incredible shorts that need to be features because it just doesn't tell enough in the short. Like it's one of those things where the proper form for that is a feature film. Like I was, I just needed more because not because it was poorly written, but because it was so deep. And, and like, I just wanted to know more of the characters. I felt like like I was left wanting more. However, it's probably gonna be something I write and I think the step by step, if you're sort of saying it that way is, okay, step one is getting the script to a place where I think it's comfortable to be read. And because we're in this incredible community, I'm just gonna send it out and I'm just gonna have as many people read it as possible and get as much feedback on it and get it to the point where, people have read it, but they've read it where it's already a point where I feel like it's ready. So anything else that's added and changed, that's amazing. However, I also see so much value in sending it out to those people so they get a sense of the vision. So then switching tactics and going to studios or production companies that would have the funding to be able to do that. putting that in and then going back to those people who read the script previously, who saw the creative vision for it, who liked it and saying, okay, this has a chance to be made. Like, what do you wanna have to do with this? And then bringing that sort of community together who has that vision, showing that to the company and like making that happen. And then ideally Farlight will be the one producing it and we get the money to do it. If it's just me directing a feature for myself that's produced by another company, that could be the path too. And I think it just depends on what happens. But the same thing I was saying about the more that's made, the more chances you get is once any of us make that first feature, we're on the up and up. And the only thing that's going to happen to us and everyone we know is we're going to bring them up because we want to work with those people. We want to work with the people we like. And we're going to film school with those people right now. So that will be something that is very... influential you know when you get your first feature deal and you want someone to shoot it no i'm here
Speaker 00:for sure absolutely no we gotta definitely collaborate on more things
Speaker 01:100 and you have
Speaker 00:the uh what's it the feature
Speaker 01:script competition hopefully in the future yeah yeah so um in the past what i was mentioning with doing that short competition uh the next thing i want to do is either for pilots or features and um i originally wanted that short competition to be an annual thing and i was like you know i'm sort of done making shorts So I don't want to put all that time and energy again because I put the equivalent of what I put into that feature into this past short film. And the budget was higher than what we had for that feature even though it's a short. And what I was realizing is if we can make a short with a bigger budget than we could with the feature, why can't we just flip it? We have the resources and we have the abilities to be able to make these really micro-budget productions and once that story is the Like there, once it's on paper, it's able to be shot, I think. Dude, that's awesome. And hey, if you guys are watching and you have a feature film script you want to submit, follow Harlow to get any updates on that competition. Yes, please do. That's going to be sick. I was given a piece of advice which I've really followed to what I believe is the T and I think could really benefit anyone which is ask questions or be out of asking questions out of whether it's feeling like awkward, like, oh, I don't know something or being vulnerable and admitting you don't know something or feeling like you're slowing things down. Or sometimes in class, I feel like people are frustrated with people who ask a lot of questions because they wanna keep it moving. But if you're interested in something and you wanna know about it, ask it whether it's in class or peers or your parents or like people who you look up to whether it's even just like sending a cold dm like on over instagram you know like there's always a chance that that person responds and i've gotten jobs that way and i know a lot of people have gotten jobs that way i know someone who has now directed a ton of music videos that are pretty high profile and the whole reason is because they just sent out instagram dms that's it so yeah we have that we have that now like just ask ask
Speaker 00:that's it being proactive about it yeah
Speaker 01:or if you're going into college and you're looking for how to get into it on every college site they have the regional uh like application manager Email them. Ask for a five-minute meeting because you have a question that couldn't be answered by what's on the internet. Pique their interest with who you are as a person. Wow. Yeah. Fake interview. That's
Speaker 00:great. Dude, thank you so much for coming on this
Speaker 01:podcast.
Speaker 00:Of course. Thank you so much for having me. This was a really wonderful conversation. Thank you for creating the place to say. So much wisdom, you know, like to give to this audience. And I'm sure. Oh, yeah, truly.
Speaker 01:Thank
Speaker 00:you, guys. Thank you,
Speaker 01:Harlow. Thank you. Thank you so much.