First Act Break
Insights on finding success in the film industry — by young filmmakers, for young filmmakers. Hosted by USC film directors Jiayang Liu and Richard Li.
First Act Break
How’s Life after USC Film School | Justin Roh
Welcome to episode 10 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry, and help you build a career doing what you love.
Today, we bring on Justin Roh a USC film director who recently graduated and is now pursuing his dreams of directing full time. We talk about the what it takes to stay in the industry, his experience at USC, and philosophies about art and life.
Becoming an artist, I think endurance is key. And if you don't have the patience, the mentality and endurance in you, then it'd be a very, very difficult journey. There was a lot of rage that I was like, I didn't get in. I'll show you what I can do. I also think being an artist is a very selfish journey because it's about finding yourself and then sharing that to others. And I was directing something and then I took a break and I felt my heart pouncing. Very dangerous for everybody But we had to get this last shot. But the location turned out something that I didn't expect. A lot of just ugly thoughts because they're spending so much time alone and they equate that as falling behind. And I think that's so wrong. I think spending time alone and being comfortable with it is the greatest strength that you can have in living today's society because so many people are not comfortable with that.
Speaker 01:Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the First Act Rate Podcast, where we break down the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry. Today we have a dear friend, Justin Rowe, today
Speaker 00:with us. Thanks for having me, guys. Welcome. And you are a USC film director who graduated last year and now are in the real world.
Speaker 01:Yeah, very exactly. Yeah. Well, walk us through applying to film school. I mean, that is already, what, five years? six years ago five years ago now
Speaker 00:jesus what was that like for you now that you put it that way sounds like eternity ago film has been something that i've always wanted to do since i was fifth grade um and this was back in korea so you know like most korean i think most schools in asia are not really equipped for students to continue you know dreaming film but I was very lucky that my family moved to the states so I was able to continue that dream and throughout high school I really didn't get involved in a lot of filmmaking because my high school was more stem oriented but um I still really wanted to do film so although my curriculum was not filming at all I think I still dreamt and worked on kind of early on-screen plays that were very bad. But for some reason, I didn't really research that much into film schools. So all I knew were kind of USC, NYU. So those are my top two schools. And I have a very funny story with writing for USC. I knew early on that they required a film, like a five-minute film. So I had my friend who lives next door to kind of film something with. And I had that film prepared early on in summer. And I was very confident that I'm ready and I can just apply to film schools after my Common Up is done. And writing the Common Up basic essay took me like three months. And it's like 600 word essay. It took me three months. I put a lot of effort into it. And now it's like three days before the USCA film school deadline. And I get into the portal and it lets me to a separate portal called SlideRoom, which I had no idea about. And I'm expecting as I'm clicking, I'm expecting there to be a film submission portal. But as I click, I'm encountered by a question, a thousand word essay question about your artist statement. And I'm thinking like this is like, you know, like not, you know, it doesn't pertain to me because I just thought it was a film thing. But I scroll through and there's a section that requires a screenplay. I scroll through, there's a section that requires a project that you succeed and a project that you failed. So now I have to write four additional essays that, you know, in total, like it's worth 3,000 words in the matter of three days. that I have. That's crazy. So now I'm sitting in front of my laptop, truly contemplating whether I should, you know, give up on my dream because I discovered this three days before submission deadline. But then I'm also thinking, you know, like this is a kind of life-defining moment, you know, like I'm in front of a time where if I decide to do this, I can continue my dream. If I quit, then, you know, I might be pivoted to political science or agriculture, which were the two options. And I also wasn't brave enough to tell my parents that I skipped on the admission requirements so I could apply to the film school. So the next three days, I went crazy and I wrote down all the essays and they were all very, very poorly written. But I think because I was rushed by time, I had a more clear focus. It was more like a do or die moment. So when you're procrastinating until the very end, you sometimes get very good results. I think I was very lucky to do that. But on the second day of the admission, deadline so like two days before I had a concert to go to and it was a it was a pianist concert that I really wanted to go to and it was super expensive and I couldn't couldn't get a refund so although I had so many essays to write you know I had to attend the concert so I went there And I got super inspired by the pianist and the performance. So I wrote my screenplay about the pianist, about a Japanese pianist who's blind and she's applying to competitions. I wrote about that. So I submitted that application to USC, but immediately I knew I wasn't going to get in because I also mistakenly put the wrong GPA on the Common App Portal. What did you put? So I had 4.3 GPA out of 4, but I mistakenly put 4.3 out of 5, which completely changes the scope. I also omitted some SAT scores. Because it was the first application. Because film school application is, like, December 1st. Right. So, yeah, I literally, like, skipped on the most important elements. So, I knew I wasn't going to get in. Because USC is, like, very tough. And film school application is, like, competition is, like, 1% of set dance rate. So, I knew I wasn't going to get in. But then, January, I get an email saying, oh, you've been selected for an interview. So, I was like, oh, maybe. Yeah. Maybe I have a chance now. And the interview, so because now I have this chance, I decided this interview will save my life or it will destroy my life forever. So I decided to go on as long as I can. But my house has really poor Wi-Fi. So with the interview, it was a Skype call, but I couldn't see the professor. for the entire duration of the interview, I only saw myself. So I was literally talking to myself and just hearing his voice. But I still went on and did it for an hour and 30 minutes. And usually it's like 15 to 30 minutes. Just to get a sense of who you are. But I just, you know, like, started talking about films I love and we talked about Korean barbecue and just more random stuff until the professor received a call from his wife saying, you know, he has to go somewhere. But miraculously during the interview, the professor mentioned so many great things about like the screenplay that I wrote. He was like, Oh, it was such a good screenplay. I really loved it. And of course I had to say, you know, I've prepared it for so long and this has been a very personal story. And he also liked my application film, which also was shot very, gorilla style. But he said, I think this is kind of important for a lot of, you know, like film students in high school, that it's really rare to see a student film where you really capture the eye of of your protagonist like where you really see through your protagonist it's mostly you know like action or you lose the moment where you get to sink in with the protagonist because you're cutting away or you're using loud music or something and the professor really liked that there was an honest moment with the protagonist although the film itself wasn't you know the best quality it was nice for him to see something truthful i think um so i think overall from my film school application what i took away was it doesn't have to be so elaborate or it doesn't have to be so fancy you don't have to really because when you're working on film applications or just any college applications you know you you meet with these challenges of like you feel like you're not such an important person or a special person to really embellish yourself or emphasize certain things. If you especially had a pretty normal and kind of like uneventful life, if you're just, you know, a hardworking student or something like that, you didn't really have much drama to write on your college app. You have this fear that you don't stand out amongst others. But to be honest, like as an artist, and as a student trying to become an artist, I feel like just being honest and working on your honest story as much as you can and telling it in the most honest fashion is often more acknowledged than you can imagine. I love that. That's beautifully put, yeah.
Speaker 01:That's such a funny story, too. I know, right? Sometimes, really, like, that time pressure puts something on you that, you know, you just have to get it done. And some of the times, it's the best stuff you've ever
Speaker 00:done. I mean, I had such a great story to talk about, you know, in, like, the freshman gatherings when everybody was talking about how long they've spent preparing for SCA application. And I just went, you know, like, three days. Yeah, what did you talk about in that essay, though? The one that you cranked out in like three days. I kind of talked about non-film stuffs. How I decided to pursue filmmaking. Because my first dream was to become the president of South Korea. because I was really interested in like social matters I watched more news when I was like age seven because I think as all Asian dads do they always have to you know tune into the night news at a certain hour of the time so even in my house you know I'll be watching cartoons and when it hits the clock like eight at night then you know the TV has to be the news so I think I was very aware of what was going on socially so I wanted to do something that could do social change. So politics and politician was something that was very interested early on. But I think by the age of 10, I realized the politicians were kind of the most corrupt people, the most unreliable people in the world. So I didn't want to become like them. And I didn't have the confidence that I wouldn't go as corrupt as them. So the second option I thought that has as much social influence was film because I really like watching films and I thought filmmakers were able to tell something that could move people. So yeah, from then on, I just went straight into filmmaking and I just talked all about that on the application. The memories of watching the nightly news with my dad and how that inspired me to you know, writing screenplays and wanted to become a filmmaker.
Speaker 01:Yeah. That's great. I'm curious though. I, I never really knew what your sort of experience was like as a freshman and sophomore. So the first half of your college time here, now that you've made it, you know, the three-day essay got you in. What was it like the first two years of, you know, adjusting to this new
Speaker 00:environment where everyone was filmmakers? I think for our cohort, it was pretty tough because the first year it was COVID. So we were all remote. So I don't think we had the best experience, but certainly we had a very unique experience because I don't think, I hope, the nearest future there won't be any cohort that spends their freshman year online so we were in the situation where we were still stuck with our you know cameras like our respective old cameras to shoot projects for the freshman curriculum so I think it was I wouldn't say it was very positive because I think everybody had the collective feeling of loneliness, feeling of kind of being lost very early on in freshman year, which is not, I think, the most idealistic or also a common experience because people go out and have fun and enjoy to the fullest in their freshman year. But for our core, we were stuck in our houses and rooms. So it felt like an extension from high school. But also it was it was a time where I could really focus on myself and I think I was able to kind of form more of my Mindset as a filmmaker because during that time I really wanted to go crazy into filmmaking I had a goal and I and I really remembered this because I was talking to someone over the phone and I and I told that person I want to go crazy into filmmaking like I want to wake up and think about inspirations. And I think that kind of clicked on me. And since then, like I'll be, you know, taking a shower, you know, I'll be driving, I'll be constantly thinking about new ideas or new stories. I think that time of, you know, being isolated and being contained was a good time for me to develop that mindset. And I think oftentimes being an artist is being alone, being very isolated, kind of in your own room and forming these foundational mindsets and thoughts. And then you go out and share with people. But just by staying with people, I don't think, especially for me, I can really focus on myself. So I think in a way that COVID year, a freshman year, was a great year for me too. of discover who i was and wanted to be um in the sophomore year i had so much fun um we were all back in campus and and i met i met my college friends who i'm still very good friends with um and it was one thing i really wish i would have done was kind of be more bold in trying things out. I think I was still pretty stuck in the high school mindset of, you know, just being safe. I wish I went out more and tried out more stuffs because you realize after the time has passed that that time will never come back. But then when you're in that moment, you take it for granted because, you know, It's just how it is. And you kind of forget how great that time is. But sophomore year really was a time where I didn't have any stress from the real life or had any obligations or responsibilities. There was so much that I could have tried. And I still did try a lot, but I feel like there's always that feeling of kind of a bit of a remorse that you wish you could have done more. Yeah. So I feel like, yeah, sophomore year was a really packed year, but I really wish I did more in terms of just filmmaking or just finding new people. So yeah, those were the first two years of my college years. So on your third year, you had 310, right? Yeah. What color were you? Yellow. You had Gibbler? Gibbler and Petra. Oh, how was that? I think to do great art, you need a lot of discipline. And 310 Yellow is all about kind of discipline, almost kind of overtly too much. And I think it does break a lot of people and it does give a lot of horrendous experience to a lot of people. I wasn't excluded from that horrendous experience. Although I would say I had really great trio mates. I didn't hate the discipline because setting that discipline and being very harsh on what you can do or not kind of gave me more inspiration on what to do. I think artists, when they're boxed in they sometimes come out with something that they didn't expect to create or have so yeah i would say my 310 was a fairly positive good experience
Speaker 01:and how did that like urgency help you in the future like you know because 310 we make what three movies in one semester and you're editing before you have to produce again right you're doing everything together and moving on, you know, now that you have more projects, you know, how did that inform the creative, um, or, or the, you know, producing process for
Speaker 00:you? I think it helps you build endurance and endurance is really key, um, to filmmaking, I think. And just any becoming an artist, I think endurance is key because you never know when you're going to break through. Um, And you have to endure all the time to break through. And if you don't have the patience, the mentality and endurance in you, then it'd be a very, very difficult journey. And 310, since it's a very fast paced curriculum and high stress environment, if you don't endure, then you know that you're not going to be able to pass the class because you can easily have a mental breakdown, you can easily, you know, fail your trio mates by kind of failing yourself by skipping a lot of the obligations that you have. I think it teaches you responsibility through making you endure. So I think 310 experience gave me the mentality to push through a lot of the struggles that I faced later on. And it taught me the harsh reality of filmmaking and kind of the harsh reality nature of it but i don't think that's a negative experience i think that's actually an invaluable experience to have as an artist and as a filmmaker because that's the life that you're expecting to live for the rest of your life if you're continuing filmmaking and if you don't have that in you then it's really hard to continue doing it that's great and after 310 you were on 480 right yeah 480 how was that 480 was i was first 80 on 480 I think I had a really good 480 experience too. I think I was very lucky with all my core curriculums because I had really great people that I worked with. There's a difference between a great artist and a great person. And it's rarely both. But when you're working, it's better to have great people than great artists. But that's not to say that my 480... The crew were not great artists. Eli is someone that I look forward to and respect a lot. He has a really nice kind of perspective. Yeah, he's the one who won the screenwriting contest, if you saw. I didn't, but is that the one? Oh, the horror film one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 01:He made Obligatory.
Speaker 00:Yeah, Eli was the director. That was in the basement, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The same basement I shot White Lieutenant, I think. Was it? Whoa, really? I didn't know that. I think it was Jin on that project. Yeah. He texted me. He was like, yo, this is where they shot Obligatory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, that's crazy. Well, there you go. That's crazy because I found a location. No way. So it's a full circle moment. You found a location and now Darren has his 310. It's a golden location, although it's very musty inside. No, because the 310, another 310 P1 also shot there. Really? And then another 310 shot there. And then this semester, another 310 shot there. It's a lovely location. It's the only location that has that kind of style. Did you find it on Geekster? Yeah. Wow. I was just scrolling through like doom scrolling Geekster and I found it. Wow. And now it's become like the prestige yes i guess that's awesome it's great um but yeah obligatory was a great experience because um eli is such a competent filmmaker who knows what he's doing and i worked as a first ad and as a first ad if the director knows what he's doing and he's able to pace himself then you know there isn't a better director to work for um and producers were lovely producer was sofia and yuan um Sophia is such a great friend. My three-tenths tree worked on the same 480. So Graham was sound and Sophia was producer. And so... It was just like a 310 get together again. We had so much fun on set and all my best friends from film school, Elgin and Daniel, were also part of the crew. I was there for one day. It was sometimes terrible because we joked around so much and we didn't get anything done. As first AD, you need your crew to listen to you, but my friends didn't have any respect for me. Sometimes it was tough, but I think I had a really good 4AD experience. That At that time, you already started
Speaker 01:on Hermit Crab, which you kind of started in summer, the summer before 480, which was summer of 23?
Speaker 00:Is that right? Summer of 23, yeah.
Speaker 01:That's right. And I remember I was driving one day and I saw you on your bicycle and I just texted you. I was like, wait, was that you at the US Village? And then there you were. And then I think that's what kind of sparked the first conversation about, you know, starting your own project. Yeah, walk us through what that was like and having that initial idea. So now, I mean, for those who don't know, I mean, the film is made and it's finished and it's already in the festival circuit. Right. So just give us a rundown
Speaker 00:of how that was like I always thought I had to make something before I graduate like a thesis level type of film and 480 was coming up on the horizon and I applied as a director but unfortunately I didn't get in I wasn't shortlisted and I think I got very salty over that and I was already in the works of writing as one does always. And with that great saltiness in the deep heart of mine, I think it sparked something in me. It was more like rage. It was a lot of rage that I was like, I didn't get in. I'll show you what I can do. Fine, I'll do it myself. Yeah, literally. And I think sometimes that feeling is necessary for you to really get out of the bed and start something. Because I think starting a short film is like starting a small company. You need a lot of people. You need a lot of money. You need a lot of time. And there's a lot of stress That's hammering you down. And if you don't have a very strong motivation to keep yourself up and continue working, grinding, it's really hard to make it through at any stage. So I think that was kind of the initial motivation. And I really wanted to break my comfort zone and get myself out there. So I started with... friends and and i didn't know you so well back then richard but i knew you wanted to produce something and i didn't want to have the most experienced producer because um i don't think i've ever like disclosed any of these but i was really thinking hard about my producing team. And I wanted to have a good balance of experienced producers, passionate producers, creative producers, and people producers. And it's really hard to have that combination because they all have very different roles and specialties. Because I think as students, none of us are perfect filmmakers. None of us are perfectly equipped with all the skills that are necessary to become... a good person in that given position. So for me, it was really important to have a producing team that were, you know, diversely skilled and also have a good chemistry. So I think I was very selective in who I was reaching out to and I had a good reason for reaching out to and I think I reached out to you and Elgin first because Elgin was someone that I could consult in terms of story probably like most comfortably and you were someone who was so passionate about filmmaking that I knew that having you on board would keep me passionate and continue going through and eventually so um and then daniel and leah joined and daniel is someone who's you know very disciplined and who's very hard at working and leah is someone who's really good with people and and jiang joined too and jiang is someone you know who knows a lot of filmmaking techniques oh yeah i mean he has a whole youtube channel who has a lot of experience so jiang was more of the experienced guy you know who had a lot of experience um So I think, and eventually I think our producing team worked really well because I don't think we had any conflicts. No, it was very collaborative.
Speaker 01:I mean, there were definitely like, Daniel was definitely the more, you know, upfront about certain things he felt. And we all had our own opinions, but I thought it was a really great collaborative environment where we felt free to express certain things. Most of the time it's positive, but if we had a really serious note about a story beat or something in logistics, we were free to just bring that to the table and no one would feel like they were offended or anything. Everyone's working
Speaker 00:in the same direction and that's such a huge... And I think that's really important in terms of the producing and the directing team because you have to be collaborative and you have to be helping each other out. And it's really difficult when... everybody has their own ego and everybody has a say that they really want to keep it in the film. Then it becomes very, very disoriented. And I feel like all of us were really good listeners and really good motivators that I feel like we worked really well with each other. No, I remember that one. I think he reached out to me over the summer and I just woke up one morning, got a text. He's like, yo, you want to associate produce something? And I like just screenshot it. I'm like, yo, wait, hold up. This is going to be something cool. Like, you know, end to end. And this is the beginning of the journey. Right. And I was just like, that was the first time I really associate produced something. And it was just such a great experience, like working with such a talented group of producers. And it was like an actual producing team. Right. And I think I learned so much from everybody on this project.
Speaker 01:Me too. It was like the second project I produced after producing Jiayang's film. I think I just fell in love with the idea of having someone really talented have a script that I connect to and I see a clear vision to. And then being the person who goes, you know what, I think I might have the ability and the resources and the skills necessary to pull it together and just bring that thing from zero to one, from nothing to something. Right. And I really felt like a deep connection to producing when I finished Missing at Sea. And then when you reached out, it felt like a perfect, like, it was like a God-given thing that was like, yeah, absolutely. Like, let me do this thing. Like, it's like a gift. It really felt like a gift. And short films, they're called short films, but the journey is not short. So how, I mean, gosh, we started Summer of 23, right? And now it's already early 25. Yeah. And... It's a lot of time. Yeah. Walk us through, I mean, the whole, you know, prep process to production and then now post. What were some of, like, the challenges and what are some of the ways that you, I guess, overcame those challenges with the team or with yourself?
Speaker 00:It was a time when I didn't know a lot of people. So, for me, the biggest... problem that I too or like biggest homework that I had was finding a group of people where we all believe in the project and and have fun working on it I think that was my biggest homework to make everyone feel connected to the project and have the best time or not necessarily the best time, but just have a really memorable experience, something that you can gain out of. Because I think all projects are inherently selfish and for your own good, because it's your story and you're coming up with it. And it's what defines you as an artist. And I also think being an artist is a very selfish journey because it's about finding yourself and then sharing that to others. But when a group of people start to believe in your selfish project and kind of associate themselves as one, then I feel like there isn't a more powerful and more... amazing project than that so that was that was kind of my aspiration going to pre-production so i think i tried really hard to find the right people the people that i can continue working after this project and now that everything has passed i think i can fortunately say that i found the people that i can rely on and work with um and i think i just have to say that's a very rare experience to have to have people that you can trust and and be very comfortable with and people who who root for you like from the bottom bottom of their heart and the people that you also root for from the bottom bottom of your heart i think i think that's a very difficult relationship to have um and with hermit crab especially I don't think it's a film that lasts. It's the people that last. So it was something that was... That was the latter was something was... That was something I was really looking into. It wasn't the film that... Of course, I wanted the film to do great, but it wasn't the film that was the priority. It was to find a group of people that... can be with for the rest of my career um so that was the emphasis of the pre-production process and it was long it was like yeah six seven months right creatively just like drilling yeah creatively and creatively the the script was really difficult to lock in because I think as all anxious filmmakers are, they get very influenced by a lot of different people around you. And it's really hard to trust your vision because, you know, who are you to really have so much trust in your vision? You know, you're not Christopher Nolan or Denis Villeneuve. You're not an accomplished filmmaker. So when people around you on your same level are giving you advice and you're naturally listening to them and getting affected because you don't have that credibility in you. So I think for me, it took... a long time for me to get a script that I liked and also other people liked. And I'm not sure if that's the best result to gain out of. Sometimes you just have to, you know, go with the vision, trust it, and then lock it and kind of say, you know, thank you for your opinion, but I value mine. Sometimes you have to do that. But other times, because, you know, film is just, the nature of it is collaborative. You also have to listen to others. So, It was also a process for me to learn the balance of that, to learn what to listen and also what to not listen to. So I think it was a good process, but that took about six or seven months. And I think now if I were to start another project, I wouldn't be investing that much time into pre-production or I wouldn't be investing that much time into just fine-tuning the script. I think I would be investing more time into... getting the gist of the story and translating that into the visual medium. I think I'll be focusing more on that. But yeah, because it was, you know, first project, there was a lot to think about and also meeting a lot of different people. That takes a lot of time. Finding the right cast. That takes a lot of time. Finding new locations. Like if you're a first time filmmaker, all of these take a long time because you don't know where you're heading. And And to gain the trust on what you're doing, I think it takes a lot of time to do it. And especially if this is the first time making your film, I think you should take that much time. Whether that takes a year or two, nobody's pressuring you to make the film. You're the one who's pressuring yourself to make the film. So as long as you can stay connected and focused, I think as much time as possible is great for first-time filmmaking. But just be aware that the people around you might not feeling the same. So you just have to be... That's why it's important to find those people. Yeah, more open to that. And production was fun. It was very stressful, but fun. I think the moment that I realized I should stay as a filmmaker was when I was working on my 310 and I was on set and I was directing something and then I took a break and I felt my heart pouncing. And I felt alive, like truly alive. Like, oh, wow, this is what I love and this is what I should stay with. And I feel like if you're directing on set, you feel that. When you're seeing the stuff that were in your head happen in front of you, you feel the heart pouncing and you feel your blood's rushing down your vein and you feel alive. Yeah. And I think that's a magical feeling that makes you endure the struggles that comes with filmmaking. It's kind of like a drug to be on that set. And of course, there are so many decisions and a lot of like unexpected things that were happening on set. I think that gave me a lot of inspiration and toughened me to become more mentally stable and and and clear with my vision. Because when you're encountering obstacles that if you don't find a solution right away, then your entire film can break down, then it really clears your mind. I think it kind of goes back to my college application when I was cornered with that three days. It clears up your mind and kind of shows you the only answer that you can follow. And that moment happened on the last day of set We were filming our ending. And, you know, there's no film without an ending. But the location that I got, it was like a very, very ghetto-y bus station. And there were a lot of homeless people around and very dangerous for everybody. But we had to get this last shot. But the location turned out something that I didn't expect like the lighting was terrible security was really bad there were police you know driving around and we didn't have a permit so it was very risky and everybody was just feeling you know not it about this location the DP and I were just like yeah this is this is not right for the final scene of the film and but then, you know, I was going through a very quick breakdown because like mental breakdown, because if I don't have an ending and my first AD is being like, Justin, you have 30 minutes. Um, and everybody's freezing outside. Like, what do I do? Like I spent this much money. I've spent this much time. I've worked with this many people. And at the end of the day, like final day of production, I failed to shoot the last scene. I don't have the film. Like, what do I do? Um, but this bus station so it has first floor and then second floor so second floor is the bus station the first floor is kind of the staircase and the staircase was the place i was having in mind because it was like very dark and dirty and it was kind of the vibe that i was looking for but since it didn't work out i went to the second floor and it miraculously had this very good lighting that you don't need additional lighting it would just look good And just like the vibe of the place, when the DP and I went up, we just both immediately looked at each other and we were like, yep, this is it. Let's bring the camera and shoot it. So we did, I think we got like two shots from that location. And initially we had so many different shots for that location, but because homeless people like, you know, cracking meth and like right next to us, like we knew we couldn't spend that much time. So we did this one one-er, but... it miraculously worked out really well. And the DP and I felt like, wow, this was movie magic. This was something that we'd never expected to happen, but it turned out so well that I think that moment was kind of the most exciting and the most raw moment I had from that production experience. It was such a moment of luck, but I think that's what it takes when you're doing films. Like, You prep so much, you expect so much, but then you still encounter all these unexpected variables. And sometimes you need the grace of luck to push through. But when it happens, there is no better feeling than that. That seems to be
Speaker 01:a recurring theme among filmmakers. It's just accepting accidents and happy accidents. Not all of them are happy, but once something really works out, it feels like... Everything just comes together
Speaker 00:in a really special way. I think an important skill trait too is, so when that happens, you have to be open-minded. You have to know so much about your film that when that accident happens, you know how to integrate that into the film. And I think that's kind of the reason for a lot of prep. Because once you've done that much work, then... you already have the film in your head. So it's not the location or it's not the certain weather that's necessary for your film. It's just whatever's there, then you know how to make it into a film. And I think that's a very important skill trait because especially as indie filmmakers, you're not in the most desirable conditions. You're not working on sets. You're not able to control a lot of things and you kind of have to make your surroundings somehow into your film. And if you don't have that open mindset, if you don't have that amount of prep, if you don't have the amount of knowledge that you have about your own film, then the chances are you're not gonna be utilizing all of the surroundings that are gifted to you to the best of your ability. And I think that mindset and that clear vision is very important for you to embrace that luck and make it for your own good. Yeah, you know that train station, that subway station location? As sketchy as it was, I went back there a few weeks later to shoot another film. Really? Because I was like, yeah, this place is sick. Yeah, it's a really nice location. I'll show you the film later, City of Meat. You don't need much lighting. There are cars going in and out. It was kind of metaphoric too. That's how you find metaphors. This is so interesting. You're finding locations that Jaehyung used. This is the second one for me. I'm sprinkling locations now. I think I find a lot of interest in people that are at their most vulnerable state and whether they get out of their vulnerable state or deepen in it I feel like there is something about people that you learn so much when you're really putting your lens into that situation and I think it teaches me a lot about people and how we navigate lives yeah i do wonder because the hermit crab movie is very similar to that yeah right um and i remember when i asked you like why you were making the film you were saying it was a lot of your fears of like leaving college into the real world and your fears of like you know having to deal with those things so i do wonder like is it what you imagine you know finishing film school and then going into like the job market and everything like is that what you thought it would be or what are some things you realized post-grad definitely humbles you a lot i think i think a lot of people go through like identity crisis a lot of mental crisis um because it's it's not what you expect right out of the blue and i think especially college is such a safe and welcoming environment where you're with your peers and you feel like you're something You feel like you're something because you're surrounded by people who also feel like you're something and they're dreaming and, you know, they're all talking about things they want to do. And there are also a lot of things that you're doing, but once post-grad hits and you kind of derail from the ideal path that a lot of people recognize as ideal path, which I think is inherent with filmmaking, then you realize the harshness of life and kind of, how it shapes you as an individual. And for some reason, I always think my films, the works that I do, are kind of predictions of who I am going to be. My 310 film was a prediction of who I was going to be after my breakup. And Hermit Crab, I think, is also a film about breakup, but I think in large scope, it's about a man whose life is crumbling down and he's going through it and he just wants kind of a breath of relief. And I think that's what I'm going through or most people go through after post-grad. They feel like the life that they lived is very separate from the post-grad life and the reality of getting rejected from stuff that you thought you were going to get into or not living just a happy, joyful life. Dealing with real struggles really shapes you into someone that becomes more of a realist and humbles you. I think humbling is the best word to use because it really humbles you to look at the world in a larger scope. You know, you're not now in such an narrow-minded where you define success with, you know, few words, but post-grad teaches you that, you know, Success isn't what most people define as they are. There are a lot of ways to define success and there are a lot of ways to make a living and continue what you want to do. So, yeah.
Speaker 01:Yeah, no, definitely. Do you feel like
Speaker 00:what are some things you learned that helped you get over a lot of the mental turmoil of post-grad life? I think it's just all about setting the mindset, the right mindset. I think mindset is so important because to do something that you want to do, that you're so passionate about, whether that's filmmaking or starting a business or doing something that requires a lot of strength from you, you have to be sort of delusional. very, very confident and very, very hopeful about things. And if you're not doing that, then the reality will strike you because the reality will constantly grab you and say you're not going to do it. Find a way to live more comfortably. Just follow whatever everybody's doing. But then to do something that you want to do, you have to say no immediately. I want to do this because I know I can do it. And I think that's the most difficult part with post-grad because you're constantly in a situation where it's really hard to tell yourself that what you're doing is right. What you're doing will eventually have results. It's really hard to say that because you're surrounded by people who are getting the results that you want to get or who are living comfortable lives. And And you kind of get into the path where you want to chase that path. But then you just have to, you know, pull yourself back and say that, you know, I have a dream and I really want to chase this. So I think it's all about getting that mindset of, you know, sort of being the illusional, but, but, but trusting in what you're doing and, and thinking life as something that's, you know, not short, but very long. Um, 10 years, 20 years, it may take 30 years. But eventually, if you get to do what you want to do, then I think that's worth it. Because you only get to live once. And if you were to die without accomplishing what you really want to do in life, then I feel like if I were to regret on my deathbed, that would be so much. at the end of my life and i don't want to go through that and i think you just have to constantly remind that to yourself and stay very positive i think i think i think falling into the negativity which is so easy to do um especially as artists when you're very self-critical and you're faced with a lot of criticisms it's so easy to fall into negativity you have to get out of there like you have to force yourself out of there and just tell yourself you're a genius know your genius filmmaker your screenplay is so good but it's just people are stupid and they're not recognizing it um so you have to constantly tell yourself these things or or else you you you'll find yourself quickly in the gut gutter um self-loathing and going through some ugly path i think it's just so easy to go fall into that self like when you don't believe in yourself anymore yeah you know self-doubt you write a script and you're like am i even meant to be a filmmaker right you know and then it's like so like mentally taxing because you know one day or actually you know like one morning you're you're like feeling like oh i can do this like i'm such a great filmmaker you know i watched my film last night and so good and then by evening you know you're writing a screenplay and you're like this is bad like what am i doing and then you know And then you got to dinner and you're eating with your parents and then you kind of notice their gaze and you're like, oh, I just wear a bad screenplay. I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like I'm letting them down. I feel like I'm letting myself down and unemployment is real. And am I going to be living this life for the rest of my life? And that's a very long time. And all these fears really easily come to you. Yeah. But then again, the next morning you wake up and you're like, I feel like I got this. So it's like really easy to get to this path of, you know, mentally very split state that is very taxing. So it's just, it's just nice to stop thinking, stop worrying and get your mind straight and just, just really trust. And yeah. And also think that a lot of filmmakers that you love have walked on the similar mental struggling path and just continue doing it. What are some like
Speaker 01:practical steps you take to, you know, keep going at it? I mean, keep writing, even though, you know, the page might be not so great that you're self-critical and how do you, what are some ways that you keep yourself busy
Speaker 00:creatively? I think you got to keep a job that, you know, It's not so related to filmmaking or any creative stuff, but just something that you can repeatedly do. It might not have to be a job. It might be a workout or it might be whatever activity it is. Something that keeps your mental state healthy. Something that you just exhaust yourself, not thinking about films or anything else. You know, self-hatred regarding just keeping yourself busy in something, I think, has been very helpful for me in keeping my mental state peaceful. And when you're encountering issues with writing or creative stuff, for me, my preferred way is to keep pushing it until I get an answer. And it's a very painful process, to be honest. It takes a lot of mental struggle, time, and I have to go through so many different thought processes. But then I think that's also the fun of the job, getting really deep into what you're creating and pushing yourself until you find something that you kind of like. And I think that's a very necessary step. Nobody's that talented to be like, they write something and it's already so great. Most of the times what you write, even until the end when you lock the script, there's something that you hate about. But you just have to constantly push yourself until you get to the point where you cannot write anything more about what you're writing. And I think I get satisfaction from that. So that's the only way I keep myself motivated. If I don't push myself right now, then what am I doing? I've worked so hard to become a filmmaker, but now I'm not doing it because I'm lazy. That kind of feels very contrasting for me. And it's betraying on myself. So I think you just have to constantly push yourself until you get something that you're satisfied with. Although that's very difficult. And make yourself think, if I'm not doing this, then I'm not doing anything. Yeah. And I feel like you have so much like knowledgeable on like the mental health aspect of it. And you have a lot of like philosophies on how you approach creativity, right? Yeah. And I'm just curious, like what, you know, where did you learn all this from? Um, first thing I was very interested in philosophy. Like I'm still very interested. Um, and I think it really helps as a writer, um, And when you're looking at things, you kind of look at it with reason and with a new perspective. But also, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of just spending time alone and thinking about different things, thinking about yourself really helps. Nowadays, it's been kind of shower or driving. That's been helping me with that alone time. But getting comfortable with being alone, getting comfortable with... spending a lot of time thinking about the stuff that you have to think about by yourself. I think that's a challenge for a lot of people, like being in that state, but as an artist and also for a good mental state, I think it's important because it's hard to keep your mental state healthy by sharing so much about it with others. When you're sharing with others, you're sharing what you've learned. You're not improving your mental state because the chances are you're kind of exhausting your psychological, physical energy with them, especially just in my perspective. So I feel like it's imperative to get to know how to become comfortable with yourself. And I think college is a place that doesn't teach you. how to get to that state because there's just so many people and there's so many attractions but it's true a lot of people spend a lot of times in their dorms because not all of us you know are you know like super big on parties or super big on get-togethers some people are introverted and a lot of people have to spend time studying or doing what they have to do and colleges don't really prepare you mentally how to get comfortable with that so i think a lot of people fall into depression or lot of just ugly thoughts because they're spending so much time alone and they equate that as falling behind yeah and i think that's so wrong i think you know spending time alone and being comfortable with it is the greatest strength that you can have in living today's society because so many people absolutely are not comfortable with that and once you're comfortable with that then you're comfortable with spending more time with other people and being an individual yourself um So yeah, I think I've spent a lot of time, especially in the latter years of my college, when personal relationships were getting more scarce and I was getting more into my filmmaking process. I think I spent a lot of time just mentally toughening myself and finding activities and times that I can really enjoy just being alone. getting my stuff together you know the other day I was driving back home from my internship and it's a long car drive it's very crowded traffic you know in LA sucks and I was just really for the first time I turned off my car or like the radio on it because every time I would be listening to podcasts and stuff and for the first time I was driving in silence just thinking about like new movie ideas and just like things I want to tell stories about and I was able to come up with so many ideas on that car drive back and it just shows that when you're actively thinking about things like that right you know your brain comes up with all these creative ideas and i think right now there's just so much distractions out there yeah you know there's instagram social media youtube everything is just constantly blasting at you and when you are just passively taking these things in you just are never able to really come up with these creative ideas so i love what you just you know said about that i mean there's some filmmakers that i always you watch their interviews for advice and screenwriting. And I think it was Paul Thomas Anderson who said, you have to get yourself up to your laptop or a paper to write, or it won't come to you. If a genius like Paul Thomas Anderson says that, then I feel like that just explains everything. I feel like it's really hard for you to come up with an idea or story when you're not actively searching for it. Which was the point that I made with when I wanted to become crazy with movies. It was that kind of a mental state where I just wanted to actively find stuff to talk about even when I'm not in that zone. I feel like a lot of people say that that zone doesn't come to me or it's hard to find that that state but to be honest you really have to struggle to find that state or it won't come to you you have to find the time to do it but I feel like a lot of us kind of skip on the discovering part the finding the time part and just expect stuff to happen but filmmaking and art and just in life like nothing just comes to you and if something just comes to you then chances are it's not the best opportunity and i feel like a lot of the great opportunities are created by yourself or created through hard work with like-minded people so um yeah i feel like just finding time as you said whether in your car or shower or your bedroom just finding the time and space to really get down to ideas is very important i actually just started some doing
Speaker 01:something um so like every morning i wake up and i set like a timer for 10 minutes and i just like write down whatever i don't care if it's poetry if it's just literally what's on my mind um or like oh i'm excited to see this movie like it could be anything and just for those 10 minutes i feel like i'm able to dump out so much just like a distraction or just like mental um energy that I would spend during my day thinking about. And I just spend that 10 minutes and try to splash them all on there. Some of the time there's some great, you know, story ideas, like Diane said, where it just pops up in your head. And a lot of times when you go by your day, like you have that idea, but it just disappears because you got busy with something else. And so I found that to be really helpful. Like you just, like a lot of times for me too, like I, it's hard for me to really start writing because I'm also such a perfectionist, but that gives like that safety net of like, okay, for these 10 minutes, it could either just be, you know, writing down my doubts or it could just be screenwriting 10 minutes of dumping out ideas that I have about this story idea or, um, that one, or it could be, you know, a childhood memory. And so I think that's something that I found useful is just have that pocket of time where you're just, um, free to do whatever you know whether it's writing right creating
Speaker 00:and i think that's what's so great about post-grad because you have so much time you have so much time to actually do what you want to do wow yeah and and if you're negatively seeing that then you could be like oh i have so much time like i should be working i should be doing something that makes you money or elevates my something but if you see it in a positive view then that time, that amount of time that you're given at this moment is such a valuable amount of time that you can spend into doing something that you want to do. And yeah, absolutely. Like you need, you need so much time to get down to what you want to do and you have to actively create that time. Right. And it's like, if you don't cast the fishing line, you won't catch the fish. Yeah. And as the late David Lynch said, if you, if you have a great idea in mind and you don't write it down and you forget you know you want to commit suicide yeah yeah he said that on multiple occasions yeah this is like one of his famous quotes i think i really feel that you know yeah it's so hard to have a great idea because it just takes so much time and and it's not just about having a great idea after you have a great idea how do you develop into something That also takes a lot of time. I feel like oftentimes we think about a great idea and we get so excited over the fact that we have a great idea that we kind of lose it. But it really matters how you deal with that great idea and then develop into the finished project. And that takes a lot of time. In fact, if you're a filmmaker and you're in post-grad right now and you're so scared of all the time that you have and you feel like you're so lost and I feel like just... get back to the page and write. And there's the possibility, there's the way out. And even if it doesn't work out, then write another page and there's another way out. I feel like as artists, that's such a great thing about what we do. We create our ways out. We create our own success. We create our career. And I think that's what's so great about it. And you can always just go back to the page and write and start a new direction. And earlier you talked about dreams, right? And you are chasing this dream. What is your dream? Because I'm assuming you want to be a director, but also I want you to expand on that. What kind of a director or what kind of other things are you chasing? I think this is kind of funny because my ultimate goal that I always said a long time ago was something so far from film. It was having a bed and breakfast. after retirement. Because I really like cooking. And I just thought it would be so nice to have your kids and your partner and have a bed and breakfast and have new guests come in. They'll all be working in different professions and doing different things, knowing different things about life. And you cook a good meal every night and talk. And I felt like it would be a nice way to just spend a good chunk of my last... few years in life doing that that's amazing but in terms of filmmaking i think it's about creating something that that lasts i've always been mesmerized by the idea of something that lasts and i think that's also like as artists what we always chase for like your work lasting longer than who you are um and your work representing yourself like if you think about it like we're directors, but if you're an actor or if you're a musician, I talked about this with my partner recently, especially if you're a musician, you're singing and you have your songs on Spotify or Apple Music, and people from across the globe listen to you. You're in South Korea, Seoul, in your car, and you're listening to kendrick lamar kendrick lamar is there yeah like he's speaking even if he's you know like several years later like even if he passes away he's still there if you if you start listening to his music i think that's such a mesmerizing kind of concept and i think that's so great about art that it lives outlives you and it still represents you and you're alive there yeah and i think for me as an artist, as a filmmaker, it's my kind of desired path to make something that lasts and means a lot for people, which was kind of the reason I wanted to become a filmmaker, to influence people and give kind of more of a social change. And I think I've always been interested in talking about people who are lost and people who are, you know, like kind of overshadowed by others. And I think creating films about them and having them last will help people as they did as the films of those subject matters helped me to kind of feel like they're not so alone and they're being heard so I think yeah that's not so I'm not so greedy about awards or greedy about like financial gains but But I'll be happy if, you know, somebody watched my movie and went like, oh, yeah, that's like my top three. I feel like that'd be such an honor to have. Yeah. I'm
Speaker 01:taking Daniel Noah's class right now, which you took. And one of the reasons I took it was because you and Daniel recommended it. But one of the things, one of the stories he told, which I'm sure you heard the story as well, was... when his film Mandy which he produced premiered I think at Sundance or whatever and he didn't know how people were going to react and he was on stage he just did a quick Q&A and he was about to step down this really sort of shy girl came up to him I'm sure he's told the same exact story but like she wasn't sure like how to go about it and he was like no no no it's okay like what are you trying to you know say and she just went I thought I was the only one who felt that way this is my favorite movie And I think she just left or something. And then that had a profound impact on Daniel who produced the movie because he realized that all this time and effort into creating a film and art that nobody knows was ever going to have any kind of real impact on people and that all of a sudden this person comes up to you and goes, that's the best thing I've seen because I felt... there's that piece of me that's in there. And that's just such a incredible feeling. I think we're all chasing after that to have that impact that's larger than you and your physical self.
Speaker 00:And I think that's a very important thing to think about and chase, but also you got to think about, so if that's where you want to go, If those are the films that you want to make and have that much meaning to the audience, then you also got to think of yourself as a filmmaker because that's a lot of responsibility to bear, to be able to tell the stories, to be able to make those films. You can't just spend such little time mastering your craft and make a film and expect it to be something special. I feel like to make something that lasts, it takes that much time. And it requires that much of a thought process. And all in all, that comes down to sincerity. And I feel like that's oftentimes what's not so taught by film schools or oftentimes not something that we think about. Sincerity is, I think, a very important thing to have in with you as you're approaching your film, writing your film. Yeah. And I mean, there's so many reasons why personal films are doing so well these days because personal films are just inherently sincere to you. But there is a limit to telling just pure personal stories. But then how do you make each subject, each film personal to you? And it's giving that sincerity. But to be able to give that sincerity, I think it just takes a lot of time to... to study the craft, to really get yourself into writing something that feels truthful to you. And it's so easy to say like, oh, this sounds truthful or like this is truthful, but it takes time for you to really feel that this work is truthful and honest to you. And I think that only comes with some struggles, like personal struggles. You have to go through some. You sometimes have to hit the mental gutter to be able to know oh, this is a sincere story. Because, yeah, I feel like it's not something that you just get out of immediately. Just because you decide to do film doesn't mean that you're on the level where you can be the most sincere and the most thoughtful with your works. Oftentimes, it's so easy to just do things because they look just cool, do things because others are doing things which is kind of the reason I'm not so proud of all the works that I've done so far, because I feel like they were mostly just adaptations of works that I really liked, mixed with my own feelings and thoughts and directions, but I don't think they were super sincere in terms of the craft and how I came up with it. So I think that's kind of what I'm working on now, finding that sincerity and finding that depth that... that is very important in terms of what we do. And I think that also sets you apart as a filmmaker. I think all the filmmakers that we love have their own sincerity and depth to it that really tells us that it's their film and it's their voice. No, absolutely. And what are some stuff you're working on? What are you writing right now? I'm currently working on a short film. It's called I Live Inside the Cabinet. It's kind of a... surrealistic dark comedy type of film that speaks on kind of the housing issues that we have in LA. I feel like house is something that molds you into a specific person. And especially living in a metropolis, whether that's LA, New York, Hong Kong, Seoul, Japan, Tokyo, the housing conditions are quite dire for people who are not wealthy. And especially in LA, the rent is like $3,000, like $2,000, $3,000. And that's almost impossible for just average worker, average person to be paying off every month. But then we're forced into that situation. And if we don't, then we're forced into very, very... difficult living conditions. And there is a reason we're seeing so many homeless population, so many people who live in their cars in LA. And I think just as a society, that's so wrong. And I think it's ridiculous, but because it's so ridiculous, there's kind of humor to it and comedy to it. And that's what I love about dark comedy and mixing surrealistic genre with it. So currently the project I'm working on is, is about, um, a society in LA and future society where, um, The housing prices have risen so much that people live in cabinets with like $5 a month for rent. But one day, our protagonist breaks his neck from fitting inside the cabinet for so long and discovers that he cannot fit inside his cabinet no longer. So now he has to kind of figure out a way to find a way find a way of living
Speaker 01:um
Speaker 00:i love that that's such a fun idea yeah and when you say you broke his neck as in like like he has a herniated neck disc that's why he can't fit yeah wow and herniated neck this usually comes when you're um having maintaining a really bad posture for a long time and i imagined oh what would people who are living in cabinets go through Yeah. And the biggest problem would be bad posture. Cause you know, you can't be, you can't be sleeping on a nice mattress. So her neck, this was something that I came up with, but then it's just, the story just naturally came. Then, you know, if he has to neck collar, he cannot fit inside the cabinet then what does he do and kind of all that yeah i can see a lot of comedy in that
Speaker 01:like dark that's comedy in it because you got the thing and it like restricts your movement and like there's a lot of opportunity
Speaker 00:the funny thing is i thought it was a ridiculous idea to have a film where people live inside cabinets but then i've been researching and And in Hong Kong and in Tokyo and in Seoul, it's a reality. Like coffin homes is a reality and literally they live inside cabinets. And that's like a common living condition. And I hope LA doesn't hit that phase, but we are statistically having a huge population growth and the rent price has increased more than ever like la is one of the most expensive cities to live in and already so many people are sharing rooms like especially if you're you know sharing rooms with like three to four people you're already living in a cabinet-like situation where you can't do much in terms of your living condition um So I feel like this type of story, although as absurd as the concept is, I feel like would resonate with a lot of us. And especially for me, trying to figure out a living condition post-grad with not the most profitable job, finding that living condition has been very desperate, very dire. So it oddly is a very personal film. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 01:Dude, that's so
Speaker 00:fun. I see a recurring
Speaker 01:theme here, for sure, with your films. But, you know, I hope your trend of ending up like your protagonist doesn't continue.
Speaker 00:I think it's kind of inevitable. I like... What
Speaker 01:if this is a way to separate yourself from that? You know, it's like an expression that paints a possible future, but then by doing so, it clears the air a little bit and you can see things a little bit clearer. I think that...
Speaker 00:I think it's interesting how my film catches up to my life because in that sense, it becomes a very, very personal film. And I feel like it's impossible for me to not live through what my characters are going through or feeling when I'm writing. And although they are very absurd and the circumstances they're in are not a good circumstance, Like all the emotions that they're feeling are stuff that I felt or will feel. And in that case, that's how those films become very personal to me, although I've never gone through a divorce or lived in a cabinet. And I guess this is something that I want to talk about how to make personal films is, you know, the story itself doesn't have to be like autobiographical to become a personal film. And I think inherently all projects that you write and direct are personal to you because, you know, how could they not be personal when you're putting your sweat and blood into them? It's always personal in the sense that the characters, what they're feeling are the feelings that you felt. Some of the situations are the situations that you've gone through. And what you try to tell with the film is what you believe in life. Like those are what make the film personal like it doesn't have to be step-by-step autobiographical film to be personal so I know a lot of filmmakers are really struggling to find a great idea or a story because they're afraid that this is not personal and if it's not personal then you know it's going to be hard to convince others or hard to convince you know the festivals or distribution companies to take interest in your project but I feel like there's no need to be so concerned about that because whatever you do is inherently personal and you find ways to make it so personal to you so
Speaker 01:absolutely yeah
Speaker 00:I think Spielberg said something
Speaker 01:similar where, you know, he didn't make The Fablemans until like two years ago, but... He said that there are hints of his own emotionality in pretty much every movie he's made, like in E.T., you know,
Speaker 00:the whole family dynamic. Jurassic Park was personal to him because he was such a dinosaur nerd when he was a kid. Schindler's List because, you know, of his ethnicity. Like all of his films, like Jaws because he was afraid of sharks. Like everything is personal to you. And like Bong Joon-ho, he's never made an autobiographical film, but all of his films, you can tell that it's his film and it's personal to him because you see his thoughts and perspective in it. Right. And views and all of that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's something that develops over time too.
Speaker 01:You can't really go like wake up tomorrow
Speaker 00:and go, Oh, I know exactly who I am. And that's, that's the sincerity that needs time to develop and really get. Right. And it's hard to get. I
Speaker 01:think Janice said something in the episode before, but. He was like, every movie you make, it's like a dire entry in your life. It's an embarrassing, dire entry. It could be. Yeah, it could be very embarrassing where you're like, ah, that's not so great. But then I think, you know, five years on, 10 years after, you look back and you're like, oh, that's the kind of story I'm interested in. That's the style I was into. And that's who I was at that point. And I think that's kind
Speaker 00:of a beautiful thing to experience. And a filmmaker that I really love who does that is Charlie Kaufman. You know, you watch his films and It's all brutally, brutally personal to him. Even the film Synecdoche, New York, there's a line, you know, I only want brutal truth. And I think that's what's so powerful about him because Eternal Sunshine, you know, Being John Malkovich, Adaptation, and Synecdoche, New York, those are all very, very surrealistic, absurd, weird, and out-of-the-world films. But you can tell that it's the most personal story to the filmmaker because you hear that from the dialogue, you hear from how the characters behave, and you see that from where the film goes. And it's so powerful how they all interact with each other. And yeah, I feel like that's what makes a really good storyteller, permeating your personal identity and stories into areas that are unnatural to you, uncomfortable to you, somehow making it an embarrassing diary entry.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 00:And I think we talk a lot about like philosophies and like why we're making art, right? You do speak like, you know, we only live one life, right? And our life is limited. So I do want to, this is, this could be dark. Viewer, listener discretion is advised. But what do you think happens after death? That was, I feel like a lot of like kids, like, you know, have that, Question and make them sleepless at night. I was one of those kids We thought about it for a long long time until like I was 20 Like it would literally wake me up at night saying like I'll get so scared but after I had some kind of a convincing of myself and More of a research into the subject matter. Yeah, I've been able to sleep peacefully Okay and i truly believe there is nothing like the state of nothing which is hard to embrace but it's easy to imagine if you try to imagine what happened before you're born right i was going to say exactly that yeah and if you imagine that then you know you go i don't know like i literally have no idea but if you think about the world and big bang happened like 4.6 billion years ago The world that we know as it is has existed for 4.6 billion years and you know nothing of it because you were not existent during that time. But now here you are and I think we're all bound to go back to that state of nothingness. But I think I take it as more of like we had the utmost privilege to somehow turn on a television that's been on for 4.6 billion years and get to watch the greatest shows that it can offer for the duration of you know your lifetime and if you think about then there's nothing that you cannot do and there's nothing that you cannot you know dream because to imagine Having that television on after 4.6 billion years and only watching the most boring documentary show ever, what a waste. That's such a waste. You want to watch the greatest shows, the best movies that you can watch, but just to watch the most boring TV shows, I feel like that's such a waste. If you also have the thought that there's nothing after you're dead, I feel like that really motivates you to do something that means something to you. and really enjoy the life because i think it's really hard to whilst you're living your busy day to stop for a moment and appreciate the state of living yeah that you're alive that you can whatever hardship you're feeling you can feel it because you're alive and know when you're dead it just doesn't exist um And like right now, too, like I really appreciate the moment that I'm able to safely talk about my thoughts with people that I like in a safe environment. Like this is such a privilege. And having that thought, I think, just extends to a lot of small privileges that you feel as you're living. You know, just whether you're unemployed, whether you failed something big, just the fact that you can go home and sleep on your bed. is such a big privilege because there's so many people outside that are freezing or in war zones that are concerned about dying and you're not in those shoes so i feel like kind of having that convincing that there's nothing after death has made me appreciate a lot of the littlest things in life and see life in a broader perspective yeah there's this quote i really like that goes um
Speaker 01:somewhere out there there's someone who would consider all their dreams to come true if they were to live your life yeah like they it if they were to live just one day of your life that would that would that is their lifelong dream and i think that puts everything into perspective i mean we're we want to do film and we're at usc and when's the usc that's
Speaker 00:like like try to recall yourself like before usc you'd be thinking of people who got into USC and who were studying at USC you don't really think about what they're doing after but you're just only thinking that they got into USC and you just expect them to be having the best days of their lives but was that the case? I feel like some days but not all of the case and And that's kind of the case for most, like just becoming a successful filmmaker. And that would be all think, but become a successful filmmaker. My life is just going to be green and blue and so good, but they all have their own struggles and there's never a satisfaction until you just say, yes, I'm satisfied. Yeah. Just one day at a time. Yeah. You know, it's something that made me, like, because I always be thinking about that as well. I also made a movie about what happens after death. I'm going to show you after this podcast. Okay. It's like a short film. But I realized that I think the reason why I'm so scared of... Some day there's a potential of not having every memory. I have not knowing the people I love It's so scary is because I haven't really lived the life yet You know, I think we're all like 20 ish right and we haven't really done that much with our lives And I would just think that maybe one day when we're like 70 80, you know We have lived a full life that we are satisfied and we are okay with letting go and that's the reason why I think people who are more older and more mature aren't as you know thinking about stuff like this as we are now and I think that made me feel a lot more comfortable because I realized you know I will be satisfied you know I will be happy one day with you know potentially losing everything you know I feel like you shouldn't be complacent but also you should should embrace just the state of what it is sometimes like I feel like if you're very driven as one should be in their young age it's so hard to tell yourself that whatever you've built so far is worth as what it is and you're always looking at people that have more than you or are in better places than you and you feel so shit about it But keeping yourself in that position only makes things worse. And also the late David Lynch said, being depressed is the worst thing for creativity. And I truly believe in that. You should be an artist, but you shouldn't be an artist who committed suicide. And I feel like there is a difference, big difference. That people confuse. People think you have to be at a certain state or you should be doing these substances or you should be doing something that the cool artist did for you to get in their position. But no, we all have different ways to get into that state. And there's so many ways to get into that state healthy. And most... most virtuosos, most, you know, great filmmakers are in that healthy state. That's why they've been able to do it for so long. And the greatest example is if you look at jazz musicians, you know, Miles Davis and Chet Baker and Dizzy Gillespie, like Miles Davis and Miles Davis is the most popular one because he had the longest career. And that's because, you know, he's tried to stay away from drug as much as possible. But then you have, you know, Bill Evans, Chet Baker, and all these other artists who were great at their time but lived until they were like 50 because they had all these drug problems. And that's not a good thing for yourself. If you cannot live as an artist the life that you want to live for the longest time, then that's not a good thing. And having these thoughts of pressure and pressure Only looking at accomplishments are against having that long, stable career, stable life. So I feel like it's really important to have a grounded mindset and keep things healthy. And also, if there are people around you that keep forcing you to do unhealthy stuff and putting yourself into places that you don't want to be, It's the absolute right thing to cut them off. And don't be afraid that if you cut them off, then you lose all your connections. That's never the truth. That's never the fact. There's so many people in the world. People will always come to you. And the more healthier, the more better person you become, the equivalent people will come to you. So I think that's something that we all are always afraid of, like not having enough people around our lives, but there will always be enough people around our lives. And at a certain point, it just becomes who you want in your life and who you don't want. And it's also important to have the skill set to decide and have a clear vision. Yeah. People to surround yourself with. Yeah. It's very important.
Speaker 01:Yeah. One question I would ask you is what are, you know, three things that you're, grateful
Speaker 00:for and what are three things that you're trying to achieve? I think I'm first very grateful that I'm at a state where I can write and do film. I think that's a lot of privilege, that I don't have to be so concerned about, you know, just living. The pressure, the weight of living doesn't suppress me to giving up on writing and doing filmmaking. I think that's an immense privilege that I have that I'm very grateful for. Second thing is the people that I have. I think it's often easy to neglect the importance and the value and the people that are around you because they kind of feel so natural to be around you. But once they leave and you see the void, that's when you realize, oh, Yeah, that person meant a lot in my life. So I'm really grateful for the people that I have around me. And I hate using the term connection with people because I feel like that's a very business and shallow term with people. They're friends or they're acquaintances or yada yada, but not connections. So yeah, I'm really grateful for the people around me. third um i think i'm grateful that i was able to make a film right after graduation or like before graduation actually and completed after graduation i think if i didn't have hermit crab um i feel like i would have struggled much more mentally and i feel like i would have been very lost but whether it does great in the festival run or not i think it was a great insurance and something that tells me that I'm a filmmaker and that I have something under my belt. I think I'm very grateful to have that in my filmography as kicking my career off because it's really rare to have that kind of privilege to be able to make a film that you want to make. It takes a lot of time and effort and a lot of people. I think I'm very grateful that I had all those resources to be able to do something that I wanted to do before graduation. Three things that I'm looking forward to. First thing is making a film this year, make another film this year. I think that's what I'm the most excited about, just naturally. Second thing is had something in my memory. Second thing is seeing where everything kind of goes. Like currently I've, with the film that's in the festival run, like I've had everything prepared and now it's going out. And seeing the real implications, I think would guide me how I should navigate my filmmaking career. So I'm really excited to see that. And third of all is kind of enjoying more of my twenties. Not really looking forward to like meeting a lot of new people. I think I would rather enjoy cherishing my friends and the time I spend with my friends right now. And having more time with family, because I think the more you grow up, You know, you get married or you find you get very busy with career. It's very difficult to spend time with family. And I have a dog and he's getting old. So I wish to spend as much time as I can within the given time. A lot of people say that you have to give at least 10 years until you find a light in this industry. And I think it's true. There's so many people that find early success, but compared that number to the amount of people that are in the industry and the people that are working, it's 1%. But because of how the media shows them and how often we are exposed to them, it often feels like they are the norm and they are the standard and they are what it takes to start this journey. But I just want to say it really isn't. You have to see more of the people that are putting so much hard work, so much, you know, enduring so much kind of mental struggle, pain, and all those, you know, realistic turmoils to pursue what they want to pursue. And I think there's a lot of courage in that. I think there's a lot of things that we can learn from. And I think those are the people that you should be looking to. for and that you should be learning from then you know those early successes because the chances are like you're not going to be that early success it doesn't mean that you're not a failure it doesn't mean that you're a failure you know so really stick to this work really stick to what you're doing whether it's you know getting somewhere or not just stick to it for as long as you can until you know you feel so done with it then, you know, you don't have any regrets. But if you give up because you just feel like you're not good enough right now, then of course you're not good enough because you haven't took the time to become good enough. So yeah, just to all the filmmakers that are, you know, in my shoes that are starting, I feel like just stay healthy in Dior and, you know, continue mastering your craft until you get somewhere. And you will, I feel like. After... how many years I think everybody gets at least one knock at the door and you either make it or not but at least you got the knock and you can leave clean that's so beautiful it's a marathon not a sprint yeah it's a marathon not a sprint yeah thank you so much for coming on the podcast thank you thank you guys it was fun this was great so much wisdom I'm sure it's so helpful to our audiences I've never talked this much No, this is part of the reason why we do it. We also get to just talk about these things
Speaker 01:in a more professional manner.
Speaker 00:I think it's really great that you're having podcasts with people that are working really hard to do what they want to do because those people are very often overlooked. But those people are the people that we should all be listening to. Because who cannot talk about, you know, who can't talk about their struggles before their breakthrough? Like, I can talk to high school students about, you know, how you don't have to go to film school. Like, how, you know, you don't have to, like, work so hard in high school because, you know, do whatever you want to do. But the reality is, like, it kind of isn't like that, you know? Like, there's things that you earn from going to film school and there are things that you earn from working hard. So after you've made it, the wisdom that you share is very different from the people that are on their way to making it. So I feel like it's really important to have those both perspectives. But when you're just searching on YouTube or Instagram, it's really difficult to just listen to people that are on the same shoes as you, those comforting stories. So I think, yeah, it's very valuable of what you guys do. I think it's really valuable work. thank you so much thank you yeah this is a void we're trying to fill
Speaker 01:because we feel it ourselves too like right you don't really see you know people who are just up and coming and working
Speaker 00:hard at it yeah and i'm sure there are so many people that are oh yeah absolutely dying to to listen to these words to listen to their peers although like because we're surrounded in this very good environment of LA and USC, like we're fortunate enough to be able to talking about these subjects with peers and hear more of their thoughts. But imagine you're in a city or in town or in places where like meeting these people is not a regular, you know, you have to go to festivals, you have to go to certain areas to be able to engage in these conversations or YouTube or online. That's it. And, and, and really share what you're feeling. It's really tough. So I think, yeah, I think it's great that this exists and this is continuing work. Yeah. I hope more audiences get to get engaged. Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 01:Thank you. That's a wrap on this episode of the First Upgrade Podcast. This was great and more to come. Peace. More to come.