First Act Break
Insights on finding success in the film industry — by young filmmakers, for young filmmakers. Hosted by USC film directors Jiayang Liu and Richard Li.
First Act Break
Producing Features and Vertical Short Dramas | Adam Bloodgood
Welcome to episode 12 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry, and help you build a career doing what you love.
Today, we bring on Adam Bloodgood a USC film producer who transitioned into filmmaking after 12 years of professional ballet and have worked on multiple features and vertical short dramas. We talk about how to build a career in the industry, his experience at film school, and philosophies about producing and filmmaking.
I was a professional ballet dancer for 12 years before coming to school. People think that PA is a bottom of the barrel job, but it's actually a huge opportunity. No matter how lucky you get, someone has to help you out along the way. When people find out that I work on verticals, they usually laugh because it is kind of silly to be working on a professional set that's made to be viewed on your phone. 90 to 150 page scripts shot in 10 days. If we're willing to adapt, I think we all have a place because the the industry in a way is growing it's not actually contracting there was work like crazy and i was on network tv shows like every other week i've been on multi-million dollar sets and i've seen how they're run there was 120 some odd professional dancers dressed as creepy clowns like full prosthetic bald wig guys girls big small
Speaker 04:Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the First Act Break Podcast, where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry. Today, we are joined by our good friend, Adam Bloodgood. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Adam, how would you describe yourself? What do you, what is it you do?
Speaker 01:Well, I am an aspiring professional filmmaker and former ballet dancer of 12 years, and I would consider myself ultimately an audience member at the end of the day. I like to make films that the audience will enjoy, whether that be exciting them or moving them, if it's something that's more emotional or sad. So I try to make films that I would want to watch, and in turn, hopefully other people would enjoy as well. That's great.
Speaker 04:And you stand out from the cohort as the mature guy, right? You have way more life experience than everyone else around me. You feel like, you know, like you just know what you're talking about and you have life figured out. And how does that affect how you work with people in the cohort and stuff?
Speaker 01:Well, first off, you know, I paid him to say those nice things, but thank you. Yeah, so I'm an untraditional college student. I was a professional ballet dancer for 12 years before coming to school. And so obviously there is a little bit of an age gap there, but I really try to not let that be a hindrance in any way. When I first got here and we were taking classes about homesickness and whatnot, it was a little bit humorous, but I understand, you know, I'm in a different chapter of life than a lot of other people. As far as the actual work is concerned, I really don't find that it makes a huge difference once the cameras are rolling because the filmmaking process is a great equalizer in it. And once we are on set we kind of transcend whatever situation we're coming from whether that be you know where we live how old we are what not and we all come together for that one specific task and so for me it's been mostly a non-issue especially when we're on set
Speaker 04:and you've been on the grind at USC like I see you producing so many different projects constantly I remember it was like maybe towards the end of freshman or sophomore year when you started getting more into the master program like master thesis films doing AP work and then moving on and being producer for so many projects how do you feel like your experience have helped you in getting these roles and jobs and stuff
Speaker 01:I think that No matter how lucky you get, someone has to help you out along the way. Before coming to school, I was an associate producer on a feature-length ballet film that was done during COVID because up in Oregon where I was working, you couldn't have a gathering of more than five people. So instead of laying us all off in the company, we made a film so we could still pay the artists and be employed during that time. When I got to school, I actually wasn't on campus much at all our first semester. I had built a nutcracker from scratch up in Sherman Oaks. I had done all the choreography, the lighting design, the projection design, and all of that. And when I came back, I had sent my resume to one of the 546, just a master's film program, master's film program short. And the producer on there read my resume and he enjoyed my work and he gave me opportunities. And from there and then on, it was just a matter of meeting people and being a available and and when you say yes to something like really showing up not just being like oh it'd be great to be a producer and then you know having your phone unavailable 24 7 so the long and short of it is i i was very fortunate that my friend soren anderson saw something in me when i first got here and that's led to a lot of great relationships including mine with with the two of you and the films we've done together and yeah i'm just trying to keep the hustle going and be thankful for the friends i've made along the way as as cliche as that sounds It is a
Speaker 03:great benefit. I'm curious though, just as a former ballet dancer, how does that inform your filmmaking process? I'm sure there's a lot of commonalities between that profession and filmmaking. Walk us through how that has informed your process, whether it be on set, whether it be writing, post-production.
Speaker 01:On set, the discipline from ballet really comes into play. It's very important to be professional and respect the hierarchy and know when to talk and when not to. Ambali is very regimented, almost militaristic, and so that sort of structure has been really beneficial working on set. When it comes to writing and directing, ballet has informed that massively because a lot of classical ballets that you guys have heard of like Swan Lake or The Nutcracker those are story ballets like there's an actual arc and specific characters going throughout the three acts and because ballet is mostly a non-verbal art form all of those actions have to be shown just with body language and I think that that has been a great inspiration of my writing of going through a scene even if it's just a character in a room by themselves that's feeling excited or lonely like how can you externalize that internal want and need and coming from ballet that's the only way we could work so I really think that's informed the writing and as far as other connections go ballet and choreography in general and film are both artistic mediums that rely on time in their presentation and so i think that that relationship also has really helped me in the film world
Speaker 03:and you blended the two together in your junior thesis um walk us through that what that process was like collaborating with your dp your producer and how did you bring that project to life did you have anyone that you knew who were ballet dancers involved or were you sort of the the main input of that ballet world and then bringing your collaborators in film to bring that story to life.
Speaker 01:You know, the whole process was really serendipitous and meant to be because I personally had been writing a lot of, I would call them like lifetime dramas. Like think of Curious Case of Benjamin Button or Forrest Gump. Like I was always really into like a story of someone from a young age until they pass away. That's always been something I've loved. And other than that, I'm also hugely into sci-fi. James Cameron is a massive inspiration of mine. Not so much the James Cameron that we know now but the James Cameron of the 80s and 90s that was more in like the Terminator universe stuff nothing against Avatar I still go to those movies it's just those are the ones that I saw that really inspired me but to get back to act two we were in our writing class that is the prerequisite for 310 and they were really pushing me that the professor was really pushing me to use a ballet story because you know write what you know and And I had been doing lights for a ballet company locally, and I met this incredible actor, David, who had been acting in a bunch of USC films. I had seen him in a couple 508s and a couple other 310s, and I thought, okay, well, I'm going to keep writing and developing this ballet script, and if David is available and interested, I will go ahead and do that film. And long story short, introduced myself just over Instagram, nothing fancy. I sent him the script and I was like, hey, I'm sending this out to some guys. Really, I was just sending it to him to see if there were any feels. And he was really into it and very supportive. And that was incredible. When it comes to the actual production, I did lots and lots of research as far as where we could actually film a dance scene safely and effectively because it opens up with a performance and we had an audience of zero, but I needed to make it seem like there was an audience of 3,000 people and shout out to Tammy, my incredible DP. It was the first project that she had really DP'd from start to finish and she put in endless hours with me, going to all these different locations and bringing the camera, testing things out and whatnot. And we also ended up working with Harlow, who's a friend of the show, and he had actually DP'd a ballet feature recently. So I was very lucky. I couldn't have done it without my team or without David. So, you know, I would have never foreseen doing a ballet film, but all those things kind of came together and it feels meant to be.
Speaker 03:That's so great. It's rare when a film process goes that smooth and it's such a, like you said, serendipitous moment.
Speaker 04:And I love how the title is similar to our title. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about the producing side of things. You are a very good producer, in my opinion. Thank you. There are a lot of things that make up a great producer. And one of them is being able to network, being able to know everybody, being able to find crew find locations and being able to communicate and I feel like you know so many people you know so many professors especially and I want to hear what's your process or advice on like making your own network of connections
Speaker 01:I try to find value in every person that I meet and not in a selfish way but I try to find what are they good at that intersects with what they love and I always I am thinking about how I can connect people, even if I'm not going to work with them. Because I think at a school like USC, it's really easy to be kind of overwhelmed by imposter syndrome and feeling like, oh, I'm not worthy enough to introduce these people or tell them that I'm even a producer. I feel that as much as anyone else does. But I really have always been the kind of person that that loves to connect friends like I'm not actually a hugely social person but when I do have like one friend group from say when I was growing up from ballet and I had a friend group that I play like metal music with I would actually love the chances to connect those worlds because I find happiness in bringing people together and so I think that ultimately that is just who I am as a person and it has translated well into producing because producing is seeing people and having the humility to go oh I think that this person is a fantastic DP or an incredible sound mixer or whatever it is production designer and you put together these films in your head of like wouldn't it be so cool if all of them were together and we had this like super film which essentially any film that gets finished in my opinion is a super film but if it can be with great people that have good personalities it's even more it's even more fulfilling if that answers your question absolutely do
Speaker 04:you
Speaker 01:have any
Speaker 04:a
Speaker 01:spreadsheet
Speaker 04:of everyone you know
Speaker 01:you know I don't really I do have notes on people that I've really had a great time with because I don't want to forget because life is busy and I've had a couple people I've worked with over the summer when we're not in school where it's been amazing and then I come back to school and it's like we fall not out of touch but we don't see each other 6-7 days a week on the set because they're off still working and we're here doing 310 yay or whatever it is And then I've only made notes if someone has done something that I think hurts another person and this is very very rare but if i see someone truly treat someone with a lack of humanity i'll take note of that and usually i don't need to write that down i'll just remember but though those those bad apples if you will are are really the exception they're not the rule most people have most people have good qualities you just have to put them in the right space
Speaker 03:right i think another great quality you have as a producer is patience and just being calm on set As a lot of our viewers know and we all know on set you know a lot of problems can arise and that can be a source of panic so how do you manage to be aware of where things can go potentially wrong and yet still remain calm because when the leaders of a set start to panic, then the rest of the group, including crew or cast, can feel a little bit unease or feel like the production isn't going where it needs to be. So how do you stay still? How do you stay calm? How do you push forward knowing that something is not exactly what you planned out to be?
Speaker 01:Pre-production. People always ask me pre-production. production or post it's like always pre for me if you have solid work done in pre-production then you don't have that much to worry about on set and pre-production is also who you hire because if you go onto a set and you've planned everything but then you've got some wild card you know dp or something that's like oh we can shoot on the train tracks for just a minute like and then then i i would probably go crazy but i go into shoots at least you know even when when we work together on teenhood it's like everyone that was on that set i either knew and i knew how they worked under pressure or they knew one of you and i trust you guys because we'd worked together before and so to me just having minimal surprises on the day usually comes down to having really done your homework really knowing the location really knowing the limits of the budget of the day and and the reality of what we're trying to shoot so the way i stay calm on set is by getting all the hard work done beforehand and then on set it's just making sure that we make our day and that everyone is fed and safe as simple as that sounds it can be a lot sometimes
Speaker 04:how do you have a vibe to you where people know to not mess with you but also they're not scared of you you know i
Speaker 01:don't know you're gonna have to tell me that one is an outsider i've always had that vibe even when i was like 14 years old i would walk down the street in downtown seattle and people would not mess with me but then my other buddy who i'd always catch on the bus like everyone was always like trying to like get money from him and do all this stuff so i don't know i don't know what it is maybe it's just uh it's just an energy i put out i don't i don't try to be intimidating but I don't know, maybe it's the voice or something.
Speaker 03:No, but it's a good fit for a producer. I mean, I think it's such like a blend of like, I think this is Guillermo del Toro who said it, like a director and producer who you have to be like as soft as water and be able to really communicate with people. But at the same time, when, you know, things come up or when problems arise, you also have to be like hard as a rock to just push through and really move forward. And how do you, I guess, strike that balance on set? Because a lot of times, you know, a very vibrant moment of like, oh, we got this shot, like exactly, like this is exactly what we wanted. A lot of times I think on set that can be quickly followed by a problem and that can quickly upset the vibe. So how do you become like a vibe setter almost where when, everyone is having a good time, you can manage to still keep the production going without people sort of simply having a good time and not making the film happen and at the same time when you know things aren't going well how do you lighten up the mood so that people can know to keep going and make the film happen
Speaker 01:the discipline we talked about earlier coming from ballet is how you keep things going I think the real skill that I've learned to develop is how to mess around but still get things done on time for some reason on a film set I'm sure you guys you guys are already laughing because you know how this is it's like people have this oh it's a great vibe and nothing gets done or everyone's angry and we're on time. And to me, that's what was great about ballet, especially being a guy in ballet. There's a lot fewer of us and it's usually much more international. And one of my first jobs I had, I was the only guy who was born in the States, but the company was in San Diego. We had guys from all over the world. And so you kind of learn to, you got to have a good time. Otherwise we're all just going to be, you know, isolated and lonely. So ballet was always like, ha ha ha. But then when the time hit and nine o'clock or whatever time rolled around, we would get right into action. And then when it was over, it was a good time and relaxing, almost, you know, once again, almost like the military, a little bit of a top gun vibe, if you will. So I think that that's what helps me strike that balance. And when things go bad on set, I haven't had anything horrific happen, but usually it's just, it's basic needs, making sure that people feel heard, you know, very politely making sure that people are getting enough food and enough water and you know Steven Albrezzi one time said he came into class and he goes what's what does a producer do and people gave all these like deep philosophical answers and he was like okay a producer is an adult babysitter and so sometimes it is that it's just taking care of people's basic needs and I kind of want to answer something that you were asking earlier of like how do I stay approachable but intimidating and i think it comes down to this is everyone who is being good to each other i really will defend and i won't let someone I won't let someone be treated poorly in front of me. I really don't stand for that. And so I think the intimidation comes from the fact that you can't mess with my people, if you will. And I know that sounds tribal, but in this sense, it's like everyone who's on the set. So if someone starts being mean to another person on the set, I'll be the first person, even if I'm not in a position to do so, I'd be the first person to be like, hey, what's going on? Is this really necessary?
Unknown:Right.
Speaker 01:That's
Speaker 04:great. Adam, so like, outside of just producing, you work a lot of jobs right now, career wise, and you have kind of like a career, but also school at the same time, right? Can you talk about like all the jobs you're doing right now? Because I think you said you had like one or two or three jobs, maybe at the same time. Can you talk a little bit about those?
Speaker 01:Yeah, so I've had a job as tech support at the cinema school. which is the least sexy sounding one of all of them, but it has been great because everyone's stuff breaks down. And so I've actually gotten to know a lot of the people that you always see me waving to in the hallway and whatnot are people who are either TAs or professors that I've helped get out of a bind before. And so I really, I took that job just because I needed it when I first got here, but now I keep some time there because it's a great way to kind of like get to meet a lot of people under under a great light because you're helping them get past their problems. I also work as a sound essay for a music spotting class, which I don't know if you guys have talked much about music spotting before on this podcast, but it's an incredibly interesting process and I'm really enjoying that class. In the real world, the music mixer who actually mixes it into the final film is given the dailies and the first set of cuts from the editor and they put temporary music and they go back and forth with the director and the actual composer until you find the final cue that ends up in the film. And that whole process has been really interesting. We had recently, I know I'm getting on a sidetrack a little bit, but we had the mixer for Born Identity come on yesterday. And you think that, oh, temporary music, like throw some action music on there. But his Pro Tools session had like 12 to 15 different tracks of things going through and it was very cool and plus a great thing about that class you get to see like behind the scenes uncut like pro tool sessions from movies before they're done we were looking at a complete unknown the other day and they still had green screen in the background and stuff so
Speaker 04:wow that's sick
Speaker 01:and did you say you
Speaker 04:You were working in ballet as well right now?
Speaker 01:Yeah, so I work for a studio up in Sherman Oaks where my wife grew up actually. I've been working with them off and on for almost a decade at this point. I built their Nutcracker from scratch, but I choreographed for their older students and I also coached their students. But in that light, I was recently asked to choreograph for an animated film and so I used a couple of my friends and colleagues from that studio to be my dancers for that process and that has been a blast because i've been seeing my choreography go from you know a thought to it physically on the dancers which is already exciting enough that's where most choreographers get get their sense of fulfillment but then i will go film it and then i'll see it in like an animatic and there's something really powerful about seeing your physical art be turned into animation
Speaker 04:that's that's really cool can you talk more about what feature film that is or like what you said animated film
Speaker 01:animated film it's an animated short it's actually a collection of younger undergrads here at USC and this a wonderful young woman, Nicole. She had seen Act 2 at 310, and she reached out to me, and we really hit it off, and she's become a great collaborator, and I hope to work with her more in the future. But yeah, it's been incredible, because I don't know how much you guys have seen behind the scenes of old Disney movies, but rotoscoping actually comes from the way they used to animate. They would film somebody doing... you know, some sort of sword fight for let's say Peter Pan. And then the animators would go through and actually go frame by frame and sketch out like the live action photo and then turn it into the animation. And that's what they're doing for this film. That's sick.
Speaker 04:That's
Speaker 01:so sick.
Speaker 04:You have so much stuff going on. Like how do you balance everything in a day? You know, like how do you not sacrifice one thing for another thing? Or is that something you do have to do to, you know, you have like what, three jobs, you have a wife, you have your film career, all these classes, right? Like how do you plan your day? How do you organize your calendar?
Speaker 01:Well, I really prioritize sleep and that's really difficult for me because I am a little bit of a workaholic and I would love to just stay up till like four or five in the morning every night but if I eat well go to the gym drink enough water and sleep as inconvenient air quotes as that is it really helps keep me balanced and I've been just trying to learn throughout college where where my focus really needs to be because there are some classes where I could stay up till 3 a.m doing x assignment but I realized that I could still get the same grade if I just prioritized what what was what Completely necessary. I still really believe in getting good grades. Even if you don't like want to go to grad school I still really believe in working hard, but I just try to compartmentalize my day as much as possible. I'd rather spend 20 minutes on my homework for a class and be hyper focused Then spend like an hour doing Kind of a little bit of this a little bit of that. I
Speaker 03:feel like a lot of times in film or even in a lot of other areas. Multitasking is something that is hard to avoid. I'm definitely someone who wants and does better work when I focus on one thing at a time, but as you know, producing, when you're focusing on getting more crafty or getting the lunch, something on set could happen, or when you're on set, sometimes you have to do A lot of other things at the same time. So in your life or either on set or off set, how do you manage to complete different things when they come up at the same time without you expecting them to come at the same time?
Speaker 01:Yeah, I've tried to get better about asking for help because I always make this joke that producing is just seeing the film get done. it's not like putting on a cute outfit and being condescending, which I don't know if sometimes that's really tempting to do, to be like, oh, well, I'm a producer. It's so funny because if you say you're a producer to someone on the street, they don't know what that is. It means nothing. It's only prestigious in our little tiny world. So that has helped me a lot because just trusting that people will do things correctly and trying to have a big enough team, that's honestly how I think how i've managed to prioritize and stay focused because sometimes if something comes up whatever you were working on hopefully was set up enough that it can kind of see itself through if you're going to derail for for a moment
Speaker 03:if that answers your question oh yeah absolutely that's
Speaker 01:wonderful response
Speaker 04:that's really cool i mean how do you see yourself like progress through this producing career like how do you see yourself um onto the next project
Speaker 01:well i fell into producing I really am a writer before anything else. I really fell in love with writing in high school. I ended up becoming an English honors graduate at the end of high school. And telling stories, as cliche as that phrase is, and it almost hurts me to say it because that's what we always say, but telling stories and creating stories has always been what I'm about. And I got into producing... primarily because I was good at organizing things. And people were like, oh, he says he's gonna make a spreadsheet and he makes a spreadsheet. I know it sounds simple, but sometimes people are a little complicated. And my goal as a producer is to be someone That has more of a creative input because I always love when I see, you know, executive produced by, say, James Cameron or Quentin Tarantino, you know that it's more creative and you know that it's going to be good. And in a way, it helps prop up that person. So my dream as a producer is to still... primarily be a writer and director, but the, the projects that I do produce, I want it to be people that, you know, I really believe in and want to prop up. Just don't get too big of a head about that.
Speaker 04:I do want to talk about your organizational things. Like you are an organized person and how, what are some systems you made to organize your life to make it easier to like, you know, keep track of everything, you know, for example?
Unknown:Um,
Speaker 01:I just try to keep things as simple as possible. I'm a real minimalist and I'm actually a huge fan of Johnny Ive, who was the head developer of design at Apple from the early 90s until 2015 or so. Don't quote me on that a year exactly. And just trying to figure out like what's the least amount of busy work that I can do. Because I don't know if I've told you guys this before, but I was homeschooled until high school. And that was for a multitude of reasons, but primarily because my Dad's band was touring in the 80s and my older brother was born in 1980 and they wanted to bring him on the road and they couldn't have him in public school if they were going to be on the road. So he was homeschooled. And long story short, I technically did not need to be homeschooled. But one of the main reasons that my mom made that choice for us was because homeschooling was about cutting the fat. It was like, okay, what do you actually need to learn to get to the next phase of development? I don't need to have you sit here and do 500 multiplication tables because that's what it takes to get an average of 30 kids to understand it I need you to do it for as long or as short as you need to do said task and so I think that that philosophy that my mom instilled in me is ultimately is how I've gotten to this place so I just try to break things down and keep it as simple as possible and like I saw Google Calendar is my best friend because it's easy to get overwhelmed but when you look at your day and you're like okay well all i have is three classes today you know maybe a shift at work and then and then a couple of things that i need to get done it's like it's not actually that bad when you break it down like hour to hour because we all have the same length of day it's just some people let it be overwhelming and other people just see it through one thing at a time
Speaker 03:yeah and like you said you know we all we have our days um everyone has the same 24 hours But then the 24 hours, one day turns into a week, and then a week turns into a month, and then a year, and then a decade could flash by. And so my next question is, where do you see yourself in, say, five to 10 years after you graduate from USC, pursuing a film career? What would be like a dream come true moment for you within the next 10 years?
Speaker 01:A dream come true would be to have... artistic fulfillment or at least feel like i had artistic freedom because i don't know if if artistic fulfillment true artistic fulfillment not to get too deep if that's like truly something that anyone ever achieves but the freedom to do something that brings me joy and to not be like worried about where my next meal is coming from. So it doesn't necessarily mean having like a 20 bedroom mansion, but I don't want to be, you know, working minimum wage in five to 10 years after having a degree at USC, you know, knock on wood. But that being said, I would really love to write a lot more and I would love to get into directing, but something that is a big goal of mine in the grand scheme, is I want to walk into doors when they're open and really try to learn when an opportunity is presenting itself. Because I feel like something that I did when I was younger, and I see a lot of people doing it now, is when you're younger, you're more idealistic. And when you're more idealistic, you're like, I'm going to be, and then you can insert someone crazy, like I'm gonna be Barack Obama. And it's like, you're not going to be Barack Obama because you're you. And it doesn't mean you're not going to also be the president or do something incredible. You just have to find your path because Barack Obama would have gone insane if he was like, I'm going to be John F. Kennedy, like he was never going to be. So that is my goal is to find artistic freedom, but also be flexible on that path and go where the opportunities are. Are you optimistic about the future? I know that it's not looked highly upon to be optimistic about anything right now, but I am optimistic. Because if you look at the history of film that we have in our classes a lot, people thought Hollywood was going to die so many times. And clearly, we've never had more ways to watch stuff. We're on our phones and laptops and TVs and blah, blah, blah. And IMAX is like... imax stock has gone up recently i never thought imax that i used to watch science documentaries on would be like a mainstream thing so i think that the film world is going to be around it just depends on how willing we are to adapt and that's speaking of just what i was just saying about being open-minded like when i first met the two of you in 2021 I think it was 22 when we met, you would have been like, where are you going to be in five years? And I'd be like, LA, like no questions asked. But now with all of the issues of the strikes and things moving away, it's like, I'm only going to leave the film industry if I decide like, oh, I have to live in Los Angeles or Seattle or San Francisco. But my plan is to go where the work is because this has been the fulfilling work for me. So I think that we're going through a rough time and maybe it will never go back to the quote unquote glory days, but it will land somewhere. Even the music industry, which everyone thought was going to be completely dead and gone, has found great success in the concert world. Like artists are going on all sorts of tours and people are going to concerts again, where after 9-11, when I was a kid, people thought that concerts were dead. So I think it's just, if we're willing to adapt, I think we all have a place because the industry in a way is growing. It's not actually contracting except for in the most prestigious areas.
Speaker 03:On the note of like being adaptive and just observing change and also sort of going along with it and adapting yourself to it. I know you've worked on some vertical short productions. I know those are on the rise. To the listeners who don't know, I mean, this is kind of a huge deal. I mean, they're on NPR News. They're on legitimate news publications. And the CEO of these companies have talked about how our viewing habits have sort of guided us Their founding principle is that, you know, maybe you can really do tell a pretty interesting and engaging story in one or two minutes, but in a vertical format. And that will be in an episode of a traditional TV show. So just talk to us a little bit about your experience on those sets. I mean, is it any different than, you know, traditional short film where the aspect ratio is horizontal? Are there any specific challenges that come with that? And where do you see that format growing? in the future.
Speaker 01:When people find out that I work on verticals, they usually laugh because it is kind of silly to be working on a professional set that's made to be viewed on your phone. But I have learned a great deal working on those sets. As far as the creative challenge, as far as the monetary challenge, they usually are about 90 to 150 page scripts shot in 10 days. Wow. Wow. I've only seen an actor who couldn't get their lines like once or twice of the hundred so days that I've spent on the vertical sets. So I would look at it as the new soap opera where I don't know if people will ever be taking it to the golden globes, but it is definitely a viable place to work. And to just, just to describe the format more like they are not shot on iPhone. They're shot on real like cinema cameras, like cinema cameras placed on their side and they have all the monitors like 9 by 16 and everything and it's become its own little side industry it's almost like music videos on steroids like everyone who shows up to those knows what to expect and they know how it goes and it's very you know it's very fast paced I know we like to say that about everything but it's legitimately fast paced where you look and you're like you're looking at the call sheets like we're doing scene 99 110 5 15 23 27 you're like okay cool that's
Speaker 03:It's good to hear in such a different environment.
Speaker 04:To our viewers who are more interested in getting into this, how does someone get into vertical shorts? If they wanted to direct a vertical short like the ones you're working on, or how do they get on these sets?
Speaker 01:Be nice to people is the short answer. My story is Vincent Walker, who's now a professor who teaches new media directing. He was a senior when I was a freshman. We had met actually in anthropology class, and we had really hit it off about three quarters of the way through the fall we discovered that we were both in the film school we had just become friends just organically which is great because if you can do that then you're set but he called me in January February of 23 and was like hey man I can't miss school today can you please fill in for me on on this set I was working on as a PA. I was like, okay, cool. And so I showed up sight unseen. I wasn't even on the call sheet. Like one person knew I was supposed to be there and I got on and I worked as hard as I could and I hit it off with that. line producer. Long story short, that summer comes along, she hired me as her key PA. So I like hired the other PAs and looked over them. And then the summer after that, I ended up taking her old job as she moved up to creative producer. And so I would say get on to set find out who's working that you know, ask if you can get on the set as a PA and then just do a great job as a PA because people think that PA is a bottom of the barrel job, but it's actually a huge opportunity because if you are a PA and you can really organize the day and you can make everyone feel respected and comfortable and you can, you know, you can even pick up the trash with dignity it's amazing how much you are showing that you'd be a great line producer and that is it's a huge jump but it is the next step so
Speaker 03:yeah just kind of like no job is too small attitude I remember listening to another podcast where the producer of Anora and Red Rocket Alex Coco he actually mentioned yeah he had to like negotiate the rates for like this truck that they were gonna use and while at the same time, there was something I think going on on set. So he was on a call to negotiate that while he was, I think just, it could have just been taking out trash and he was like the main producer. So yeah, I think just, yeah, like you said, you know, even if you're a PA, there's a set can run without a PA doing their job properly. And so I think that's just so important. And talk us a little bit, talk a little bit about, how you've sort of explored different roles on set. We've talked a lot about producing, but you actually shot something at my house. That's true. As a DP. And I know you also held some producing responsibilities on that as well. So how do you, I guess, use different parts of your brain when you're a DP versus when you're a producer or... when you're a PA versus when you're literally the director? Are there any commonalities between these roles? How do you switch between them?
Speaker 01:Well, I think it helps that I'm a big tech nerd. And it's not something that comes up. I'm not ashamed of it, but it doesn't come up at school very often. So I've always been fascinated in how camera works, how sound recording works, just the technology side of it. Because I think that there's a cliche that people fall into where they use tech as a way to kind of hide from storytelling. And I'm sure you guys have seen it. It's like the way you say that you're like, like a cool guy you're like yeah yeah you know we shot that like 8k log with like a sky panel and it's like okay you can either approach it like that or you can approach it in a way that that elevates the story It's, you know, like I look at back growing up, it's like my dad would always be like, there are certain movies like you have to see in the theater. He would say he's like, we're like, we're going to go see, you know, Mission Impossible, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter. Like those are like theater movies. And he would be like, you know, you need the big screen. You need the surround sound. You need the like rumbling floor from, you know, the LFE subwoofer. Sorry, I've started talking in our own our own lingo. So. That has always been something I've been into, but I haven't always been drawn to doing the technical things on set full time. So to me, I just observe as even as a PA or a producer, like your observational skills do not change depending on what, you know, you are on the call sheet that day. You watch how people work and when the collaboration really clicks and when it doesn't. And when I go on and I'm doing something like DPing that I haven't done for someone else as often. I mean, like all of us, I've made a million of my own films where you're like your own DP. But when you're working for someone like on that film where I was Tammy's DP, um, I just go, I pull from a library of what I've seen work on other sets and then try to bring to it what I can with my own technical experience.
Speaker 03:And adding on to that, ballet is a performance art. Have you ever tried acting in front of the camera? If yes, what has that experience been like? And if not, would you be willing to try at some point in the future?
Speaker 01:Yeah, I actually have some acting background. I had a YouTube show for a little while, about a decade ago. Gosh, it was a good time. And I lived out here in LA between ballet gigs for a while. And I was doing like little one-liner and background jobs. And that was during the streaming boom. And that was amazing because there was work like crazy. And I was on network TV shows like every other week. And it was nothing big. It was usually like either a single liner or like walking across the background, but it has played a tremendous part in my understanding of how a film set should work because I've been on multimillion dollar sets and I've seen how they're run and I've seen how they can be amazing and where it can also feel like a student film where everyone's getting paid a lot of money. And so the short answer is yes. And I actually want to get back into acting because now that I've been learning more about directing, I would say classically, in depth at school, I feel like I really want to put myself in that position to really understand what they're going through and potentially be in a couple things at some point. It's not my main priority, but it's one of those doors that I don't want to close for no reason.
Speaker 04:And you said you've been on a lot of sets before, like on different projects, it's different roles, right? Yeah. A set is 12 hours a day. It's really long. You get like one meal out of that. And how do you stay sane? You know, how do you stay like, how do you stay fun? throughout those 12 hours knowing that maybe you have to go back to set again another 12 hours for another 12 hours right because this is a very hard job i mean even being on a 480 set for 12 hours takes a lot of life out of you i feel like so how do you navigate that and keep yourself feeling you know happy and healthy i
Speaker 01:really try to keep it light when i'm it's appropriate for it to be light. Like when we're on schedule and say you're off to the side and the sound guy doesn't need to mic someone up, like that's the time where I go over and I try to find out like where they're from, like what they're into. I'm very fortunate that I haven't traveled internationally a ton, but I have traveled a decent amount and I can find a way to relate to someone and kind of like have a little banter with them. Like that, that's what keeps me sane. You know, like for instance, on 480 I really love the sound crew on my deal. So I've been like, I've been going around like calling them lazy all the time. And like, clearly it's very facetious. Like they know that I mean that like 0%. I'm like actually saying, I appreciate you being here. You guys are like my friends. But so finding those ways to connect with people, I think is really important because I think film sets are really stressful and they are really draining. And so people tend to put up walls, which are really just because their social battery is completely run out. but it can come across as kind of arrogant or like you're too good for someone so when i am tired i do try to reach out as much as i want to kind of go in my own little bubble i think also like if there is a day off i like really try to treat my body well i'm not like a huge drinker or anything but i would never i would never like stay up late or like have a bunch of drinks that night or whatever if i have if i have a day off like i really try to hydrate and sleep and and socialize with people in my family outs outside of that like spend the day with my wife call my mom up in seattle like remember that i'm a human being because you guys know sometimes in the heat of production you just kind of feel like a machine and we're not supposed to feel that way so you have to figure out how to kind of counteract that right
Speaker 03:And how do you find the balance between like, because film, like you said, like we all just kind of talked about for like the past hour, like it can be kind of draining. Like it takes 12 hours just to shoot and that's just the production. There's pre-production and that usually also requires a lot of long-term dedication and focus. What are some ways you stay a human being? Like you said, you know, not just let this thing sort of guide everything that you do because when that happens, it can feel... very overwhelming you can you know feel like your other relationships in life aren't being taken care of or you may be just not be taking care of yourself how do you manage both the intensity of filmmaking and your other areas of your life
Speaker 01:honestly it's learning how to say no to things because I've noticed this arc with a lot of people. And now that I am a TA, a lot of the underclassmen will ask to meet with me for office hours. And so often they're like, I'm so burnt out. What do I do? And the answer is almost always like you said yes to too many things. Like you can't, especially while you're in school here, you can't do every single weekend on set. you you can do like a project and then take some time off and maybe some people are superhuman but for me like i need that time off so i think it's just saying no to things and i know it might not sound like i do that because i because you guys are like constant collaborators of mine but there are people i know less who who i have nothing against who might be like hey i've got this project and it's like say it's between 480 and the next jiang film like i'm not gonna do it because i know that by the time i get to yours hypothetical your film i'm gonna be dead and exhausted and If you're dead and exhausted, that's also when you're potentially risking your reputation. Because a lot of times people ruin their image in someone else's eyes when they're just tired. And there are a lot of times that if you're humble enough, you can kind of repair that. But you're not going to snap if you are well-rested and you feel happy and loved and balanced. You're going to snap at someone when you're exhausted on day 15 and all that sort of thing.
Unknown:Right.
Speaker 03:that kind of happened to me the first day of production of teenhood i fell literally sick like two days ago and i there was nothing i could do i mean i was coughing non-stop and then i realized yeah i think i could have taken better care of myself because i was also just um wrapping something else up and yeah that took a lot of mental energy it took a lot of physical energy and i think at the end of it my body just shut down and just upon reflection i think i would have said more no's than I said yes's and I think that's such great advice to anyone who wants to pursue filmmaking seriously and for long term and I think that's something you learn kind of just by doing it eventually you realize like you can't commit to every thing and I definitely was like a set hopper freshman and sophomore year. A lot of us were. Yeah, I just wanted to learn everything. And the only way to do that is by going on set. But it can be very draining the more you do it. So yeah, at some point you do have to just say no to things and just dedicate your time to the things that are on the very top of your list.
Speaker 04:No, I agree. It's like right now, especially I heard from our TA from last semester in 310, Amanda, who told me that after 310 semester is the semester where most people get burned out because they think they can do everything, which I thought I could do everything. So I started piling up so much different stuff. things from different places. And I, a lot of times I have to feel like I have to sacrifice, you know, not going a hundred percent on this thing to be able to go like 80% on this other thing. And it is really tough balancing everything, you know? Um, so saying no to things is probably one of the best things you can do. I, I totally agree. And on the topic of that, like, um, how do you pick projects? You know, how, what makes you want to do a project versus another project? That's like, let's say producer.
Speaker 01:Yeah. This is a hard one because to get to this place that you're talking about, it is a privilege that comes kind of after shopping yourself around and going on a lot of sets. Yes. And you have to think of it, you know, people have said this before, you have to think of it like as a marriage because when someone's like, oh, I want to produce this cool project, you have to go like, can I have this person calling me at like 11.30 p.m. on a Sunday night? Can I be on set with this person like, and then deal with them in post and how do I think this person handles conflict. And so honestly, like story is king. which is why I'm very privileged to have been in producing positions where I can give notes if I think something is off. But really, it's like, it's who you want to spend your time with. I was on a film last year called Into Dust right before Teenhood, directed by Luna Barotel. And every time I worked with her and my co-producer, Jeffrey, it was just like a breath of fresh air. It was like getting away from school, getting away from work. And that made that movie worth producing. And I chose to work with her because we had been together on Xiao's set. She was a producer on his film that previous summer. And there was just something about our friendship that it had potential. And so I think ultimately the way I choose who I work with is or what. productions I work on at this stage in my career, sorry, at this stage in my career is who the people are because you're going to be spending a lot of time together for better, for worse.
Speaker 04:Yeah. Well, I mean, outside of teenhood, what are some of the, what are some of your favorite sets you've worked on and what are some of the coolest sets you've worked on?
Speaker 01:Uh, favorite sets I've worked on. I loved into dust last year. And then I also really loved A Better Place, which was Xiao's film. It sounds horrible. Well, we met on that one. That's right. I
Speaker 03:was a grip for a day or two, I think.
Speaker 01:It was crazy. We were out in the high desert. It was like 120 degrees, shooting at the height of a UV every day, like 1 p.m. out in the sun. It was like, on that note, it seems like it would be terrible, but it was an excellent crew. Xiao's a wonderful... dear friend excellent talented director producer uh but the but the vibe was there i really really enjoyed that crew i mean i probably lost like five pounds of water but other than that it was a good time and then i really enjoyed as far as another thing here i really enjoyed the visit The Visit was a lot of fun. That was a graduate capstone film that had like a creature, like a creature that was in supposed to be the form of like the recently deceased mother. And it was a beautiful cast. Soren Anderson, who I mentioned earlier, was the producer who hired me. And every person that I see now that I worked on that film with, it's like, It's like, oh, hey, remember when? And I had a really good time with that one. And I've actually worked with both of the lead actresses on my own projects outside of The Visit since then. So it's become, you know, that was really a core film. But as far as just sets in general, I think the craziest set that I've ever been on was American Horror Story, The Cult, because I know they have like different names for different seasons. I don't think we were actually in... the series itself, it was just an advertising campaign. There was 120 some odd professional dancers dressed as creepy clowns, like full prosthetic, bald wig, guys, girls, big, small, prosthetic, all painted white. It was like the Who's in The Grinch. Hours in the chair every day. They were in a warehouse down in Manhattan Beach that was huge. And it was the size of a Costco. And they had at least four scenes being shot simultaneously at all times. I've never seen money burned like that in my entire life. The producing table was like... 15 people long it was absolutely over the top and I even knew then I think that was the first time I'd been on a set where I was like this streaming boom is not sustainable like this level of like insanity will not last forever but it was cool like I was on TV a bunch like as a weird clown person and I was also on the Sunset Strip on the poster like with my hands over the actress's head and stuff it was a really good time but it was over the top
Speaker 04:I would love to see something that footage afterwards.
Speaker 01:Yeah, I'll
Speaker 04:definitely show it to you.
Speaker 01:I didn't know. When did you do that? 2017, I think. Oh, wow. Oh, that
Speaker 04:was way before USC days. Oh, yeah. Oh, damn. Okay, that's cool. Speaking of USC, though, what's your, like, you know, you're, we're almost seniors now. Yeah. What is your impression of the film school? Do you think it was worth studying here? What are some things you think could be improved about it? What are some things
Speaker 01:you really love about it? I have had a great experience, and I'm not just trying to be a poster child. It's because I lived a life... Mm-hmm. If you were the one person who's number one on the wait list who didn't get in, they would do anything to be in our classes. I think that if you're willing to talk to the professors, the amount of information that is so freely just thrown at us is incredible, but you have to ask for it. And so I think that that is something that maybe sometimes people get a little bit frustrated by is it's not just all, hand it out but but it's there and i think that after usc the amount of people of high quality individuals in their specific fields that we're gonna know is is crazy like i i was in oregon for a brief stint before coming here and there was like three of us that did film in the entire city And I used to always be like, oh, I'm the second best director and such and such. People would be like, oh, wow. I'd be like, well, there's only two of us. Way to stay humble, though. But I think that the network is incredible and it's maybe sometimes hard to see it when you're here. But, you know, like I think you guys have probably heard this story, but like there's there's several filmmakers that inspired me to. to come to this school. And I've had the privilege of meeting almost all of them just by being here. And if I was to tell my 12-year-old self that that was a possibility, I would have been like, there's no way. So I think it's a huge honor to be here, but you have to bring something to the table. Getting here is not like just getting to school, now my life's set. It's like, okay, now I've gotta prove that I went to USC film school. Cause so that that's kind of the stage I'm at right now. Like, okay, like now's where the work starts. It took a lot of work to get here, but now I need to leave and be able to show, like have something to show for it.
Speaker 03:Yeah. I really do agree with that. I think just putting all you have into this great community in this great school. I mean, there's so many things where we have to really just be proactive about it and you can't wait to, for things to happen. I think that's, really good attitude to have for just anyone who wants to pursue filmmaking because nothing will happen if you really don't have the drive to just go hey i want to make this happen i want to go from zero to one i want to go from nothing to something but at the same time i think something you mentioned that's really impactful i think for for me when i realized it was just being grateful for for um for this community i mean it's arguably the best place to be if you want to pursue filmmaking it's got all these great resources and Yeah, I mean, the grass is greener where you water it. I think that's something I read somewhere, and I think that's such a... You know, it puts a spin on the old, you know, the grass is... How did it go? The grass is greener on the other side of the fence or whatever. But yeah, I mean, I totally agree.
Speaker 01:Yeah, and you know, the thing about that is... It's not just us, because I feel like a lot of times here, people go, oh, we're so Hollywood. Like, what if I went to NYU, or what if I went to AFI after this? And to me, I think instead of spending time putting your energy there, spend time into becoming the filmmaker you want to become, because... I've hung out with a lot of people from AFI and sometimes they're like, oh, I wish we weren't so like auteur indie focused. And then I've met people from NYU that are like, oh, I wish I used, I knew how to use Avid instead of only Premiere Pro that I could have learned, you know, off YouTube or whatever. And so, you know, everyone feels like, oh, well, if I did this, I could have maybe had this more, but you can't do what if. It's like, this is like, it's so, such a first world problem. It is not, an issue to be like oh man i'm at usc film school what if i was somewhere else it's like dude you're at
Speaker 03:yeah
Speaker 01:right usc film school that's freaking amazing
Speaker 03:yeah
Speaker 04:right and speaking of like you said after film school is when you prove yourself that like you went to usc film school right how do you see yourself like right after college like once you finish graduation where do you see yourself moving to next you know what's the next big thing
Speaker 03:what's your first outbreak
Speaker 01:first act break so right after college i will probably keep producing and i really want to keep writing i'd like to have i've got a couple of features in the works that i would like to have done and i don't have any sort of delusion of like oh i'm going to sell it in six months or blah blah blah but i just want to my goal after graduation is to not lose momentum Because I can sit here and be really confident and kind of essentially lie to you guys about like, oh, I'm going to go direct this, go direct that. It's like, I'm going to prepare as much as possible and then see where things land, but then continue this work. And that is one thing that is nice about coming from... my previous careers, the work never stopped there either. And so I don't have this delusion that when graduation comes, I'll be set. When graduation comes, I'll be a graduate of USC, which is wonderful and a total privilege. But if I don't bring anything, it's not going to yield anything. So to answer your question, probably producing a few projects for a few friends and maybe some verticals or whoever will have me at that point. And then directing as much as possible. I'm really still in love with music. I'd love to do some music videos, concert films, some more short films and whatnot as well.
Speaker 04:What would you do to like help pay the bills though? Oh, produce for sure. Yeah. How does that work? How do you make money right out of college? I
Speaker 01:think it depends on what you're producing because if you're going to produce like somebody's feature that's has basically just enough money for production that's a huge risk and more of a resume um bullet point but for the verticals that i've worked on they give you a producing fee for per project and so that's how i was able to survive over the summer and so i would say work in an environment maybe like you know junior line produce that's not a real a real term, but like line produce smaller projects. So you are getting that, that fee because that is the hard thing about directing. I don't think there's a lot of people that want to be directors. I don't think it's, it's a talent issue at all. I think sometimes people pretend like it is, but directing is hard because it's very time consuming, but getting paid to direct is a very difficult place to be in. So that's why I talk about that momentum. It's like continuing to do the things that are a sacrifice on the weekend So eventually that could at least be part of your income to direct films or commercials or whatever.
Speaker 04:What is the directing or producing fee that you see on vertical shorts?
Speaker 01:I mean, it's not much. Honestly, if you break it down per day, it's not a ton more than being a PA or a DP, but you work for longer. So you're getting paid all the way from... pre-production all the way through can i know the number though i because i work for that because i work for that company i don't think i'm allowed to say it's a company kind of thing it's not freelance um it's well for that company yeah i have a contract with them when i work through them oh yeah
Speaker 03:yeah it's more like project based right
Speaker 01:like it's probably higher but some people do work food At the verticals, this is worth saying, some people do work on a salary at the verticals, especially in post. I know a lot of people in sound and in editing where they go to the studio. I'm not sure where it is, Culver City or something, and they're there full time.
Speaker 04:Gotcha.
Speaker 01:Is it
Speaker 04:like you get paid by season or paid by day or out?
Speaker 01:You get paid by project.
Speaker 04:And so usually a project is like five weeks. Oh, so would you right now only be able to do it during the summer
Speaker 01:then? Yeah. Gotcha. It's, it's very intense. I really enjoy the people that I've worked with, but, um, one time I was hired on a vertical and they were like, Hey, we'd love to have you line produce. We need a full locations breakdown with options by tomorrow morning. It's like 8 PM. And we had like an 8 AM meeting and I had never seen the script before. Like they had just sent it to me. So a lot of like things, I just wouldn't have time to do that. I mean, unless I was going to get like a, see on every single class that I took you know
Speaker 04:exactly and do you feel like it's creatively fulfilling working on that
Speaker 01:I think it's exhilarating I think it depends on your position if you're gonna do it for a long time maybe it could get exhausting just because of the work but I know at least a lot of actors and directors that they seem to be it getting something out of it I don't think that it's gonna feel like you're directing Oppenheimer at any point but I it still is a creative job and i i know um a guy i worked for a couple years ago that he has a great time doing those because he he thinks in over-the-top ways and he's like a miniature michael bay and he had such a great he had such a great time on those sets and he would be like guys we're making art after like it was like a werewolf punching a vampire or whatever but like so i think it depends on where your head head is at right
Speaker 04:cool you are balancing so many things like again it always comes back to this like how do you have time for you know your wife and how do you guys do a long distance relationship with you in school and stuff
Speaker 01:well we try to see each other as often as possible and The fact that I'm in school and the fact that she is in a ballet company oddly compliment one another because the way a schedule works for a ballet company is very similar to a theater company. You rehearse for four or five weeks, give or take, and then you go into the theater and you have your tech week and then your performance weekend. And then usually because ballet is so physical, there'll be a couple of weeks off or at least a few days off after each show. And so when those happen, she'll come down here and spend time with me. And whenever we have a Monday off, whenever we've got a week off, I am out of town all the time. So quite often people are like, hey, you know, the great time to film this thesis would be spring break. And I'm like, not with me. I mean, you can, but bye. So that's how we spend a lot of time together over the holidays. And I really unplug from the film world over the holidays. And just, you know, I stay connected to people like you two, who are my friends, you know, to say like, you know, happy new year or whatever but I really kind of let the work kind of rest during those times so we and also once again not to make it like a schedule thing but we just make sure it's a priority that we talk multiple times a day we talk every morning every night unless I'm on set till like midnight or something and even then you know we'll figure out another time to chat during lunch or at least leave each other little voice memos like I personally think that for any sort of relationship there's something about going beyond like texts that I think is really important because, you know, we weren't meant to like write each other notes and never see one another. Like we were meant to look at each other in the eyes and, and hear the voice. So that's
Speaker 04:a balancing act for sure. I feel like it definitely took you guys like a bit of time to figure out how to do that. Right. Because I would assume like being a part for, you know, work or studies is difficult. No,
Speaker 01:no, it is. And I really love when this hasn't happened that many times but whenever I've got a lot of homework and I get to go home it's like man I wish I could just somehow be home every weekend like I hate going to the airport and LAX and all that obviously it's terrible but once I'm there and we also have a little dog I just love just you know having my laptop out my little dog like laying on my leg while I'm doing you know what USC work and sometimes those are my happiest moments because I'm the most fulfilled and it's definitely a big adjustment because when we first moved in together everyone was was warning us because you know when you're when you're in a new relationship people are like oh you know be careful about this be careful about that and when we moved in they were like oh we're gonna see like the real izzy or the real adam now and then it's like a week went by and it was fine and all of a sudden it was like a year and i was like i'm still waiting for the red flags and so we really have we're very compatible life-wise and so we do very well when we're together so not being together has been quite an adjustment because we just we just mesh you know it's just like it is ultimately it's like romance there's more layers but it is ultimately just like a friendship it's like it either vibes or or it doesn't
Speaker 04:I agree. And the other day, I had that realization that, you know, being in the film industry, especially trying to be a director and producer is such an unstable career. We're having that traditional like nine to five job and you get to go home to the family and go out on the weekends is not really an option. Because sometimes if you're, you know, directing a feature film, you're on set for, you know, a few months, you're producing, you're on set for a few months. And, you know, either you get to have a, you know bring your family to set with you they would have to leave everything behind because most things are shooting out of the country now in canada europe and stuff so it's like we have to make that sacrifice to be able to like have a job in this career which i know part of me feels i don't know how to feel about it to be honest it's um i don't know i kind of want to hear your take on that
Speaker 01:you know it is difficult but it's not impossible and the thing that comes with being very busy and being out of the country is you also have these times where you can be home and my dad was a pastor and musician and his schedule was so weird like he would be gone at night sometimes to go record an album that he was working on or he'd be off in Europe doing some show but it didn't hurt our family life because he had that different job. He spent so much more time with me during the day and going to my shows and things like that because he had a very odd life. And I was very proud of what he did. And plus, kids are super adaptable. I thought that, you know, dads that worked at night and had long hair and like went to Europe and got to travel the world and do all this. I thought that was normal because, you know, you only know what you know when you're a little kid. And so he loved me. And that's what mattered. Him being gone weird hours. It was just like, oh, cool. Like your dad comes home angry, waiting for a drink at five every night. My dad leaves happy at night to go do something he loves, you know. Right.
Speaker 04:I think, yeah, that's really well said. I mean, I think anything is adaptable when you really try to do it, you know, when you want to put in the effort. I guess only time will tell, you know, what would happen next and how our life and career will mesh with our you know personalized
Speaker 01:yeah
Speaker 04:and um i guess i'm pretty optimistic about hearing what you know your father went through and uh what you went through you know
Speaker 03:that's great what was one principle quote or mindset that got you through one of the toughest periods of your life
Speaker 01:this too shall pass as simple as that is because sometimes on set when we're tired or just in life when we're going through a lot it just feels like time slows down and you're never going to get through something but you know like right now it's a nice relaxed friday night with with the three of us hanging out it's like i could have never even imagined this moment during like the most stressful times of my life so just knowing that everything is temporary i think is really a relief
Speaker 03:that's wonderful well Thank you so much, Adam, for joining us on the show. This was great. Thank you for having me,
Speaker 04:gentlemen.