First Act Break
Insights on finding success in the film industry — by young filmmakers, for young filmmakers. Hosted by USC film directors Jiayang Liu and Richard Li.
First Act Break
Makayla Lysiak on how to build a Successful YouTube Channel and Film Career
Welcome to episode 13 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry, and help you build a career doing what you love.
Today, we bring on Makayla Lysiak an entrepreneur and TV writer/producer who has a large platform on social media to mentor aspiring actors and filmmakers. We talk about how to build a career in the TV industry, her approach to creating a successful Youtube channel, and her philosophies about content creation.
YouTube is just... the best place to like really showcase who you are as an artist. I just think the state of the industry right now is super scary for a lot of people who are even in it right now. Like the cost cutting and it's only going to get worse. It's, you know, it's going to be really hard to find jobs in the next few years. Right now, it's just this competition between big screen and small screen. And if you're creating for small screen, you're making the money right now. A lot of people want to go in for the brand deals or like the monetization. But like if you put the people first, all that will come.
SPEAKER_00:I have zero followers. Brand new. What are like top three advice that you give me to create my first piece of content
SPEAKER_03:open an incognito browser on youtube type in a keyword that one of your avatars would look up or something related to your niche and see all the things that populate underneath it that's what you're gonna put in your titles be aware like while you're scrolling what's happening to the infrastructure of the app constantly thinking about content youtube how to monetize it how to film it how to edit it
SPEAKER_02:Mikayla, thank you so much for coming on our podcast. Yes, of course. You are an actor, director, content creator, everything, entrepreneur from USC
SPEAKER_03:Film School. Oh, okay. I didn't know I was an entrepreneur, but I guess so. I don't necessarily call myself that, but I'm glad to know that people maybe think that about me.
SPEAKER_02:I really admire your work ethic. I think even before film school began, we were kind of like talking on Instagram and you were like the person who's always on top of it, working on different things. How do you, like what made you someone who is always so driven and ambitious and always working?
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. Maybe it's for my parents. I grew up, both my parents own their own businesses. So maybe it was just like a matter of seeing them do that while I'm growing up. They were always hustling. So maybe it was that, but I don't know. I've always just felt like I want to do things. I always have had a really big work ethic, but I mean like coming from you, that's crazy. Cause like I said, before we started filming, you are always doing so much stuff. I feel like compared to like all of the other production students, like you're juggling eight films at a time. All the things you do outside of school and then in school, it's really a lot. And then this podcast, it's really impressive to see. So yeah, I'm excited to talk about school, work, balance, and all of that, because I feel like you'll be able to relate to
SPEAKER_02:me on that. It is really a lot. And sometimes I watch your videos on your day in the life or week in the life, and I'm like, wow. We have really similar lives, but also different in their own ways. But I think, yeah, we are juggling so many different things. But you have made such a big impact on the aspiring acting community with one of the biggest channels on acting.
SPEAKER_03:Was
SPEAKER_02:that always the goal or was that just something you started for fun?
SPEAKER_03:I think it... So my channel, it started when I was really young and it wasn't about acting at all. I made like comedy skits like back in middle school. So like I would go around my middle school with my iPhone and I would be like, okay, like guys, I want to film this little skit, like come in over here and then just say this. And like we'd film and I'd like tell them things to say on the spot. And that's like stuff I would do with my little brother. Like when I was really, really young, like filming on my iPad, I feel like that's every like film kid story. Like, oh, I was like on iMovie, like filming things but like that's kind of how it starts um and so I was doing that and then my acting career kind of started gaining traction just outside of like the fun videos that I would post online and I remember I would get like some comments about it being like hey like can you talk about this like talk about how you got into it and then my mom was like yeah like this could be really good for you like to position yourself as a mentor um because just like I've always wanted to do social media like I grew up watching like beauty gurus and People who did DIYs back in the 2010 era. But my mom was like... She was just such a big influence on how I pursue social media in terms of how I want to be perceived. Because I feel like a lot of women on social media... I don't know. It's easy to sell yourself for looks or only be like, oh, makeup, beauty. And that's a great industry, a really lucrative industry to be in. But my mom always taught me, never rely on your beauty. Always rely on your brain because that's everlasting. I mean, beauty fades. You never know what could happen. Get in an accident, your face could be changed forever. But if you... really lead with your knowledge, that's how you're gonna have a longer career in anything you do and whether that's creative or through mentorship, so that's kind of the direction I took with my channel after like getting a few comments about like acting and stuff and so I just started sharing things and making fun videos and it took off and yeah, I guess a lot of people now know me for acting and now they know me as sort of this person who's pursuing other aspects of the film industry with writing and producing and directing and all that stuff that hopefully I'll get to do in the future so yeah it's it's very interesting but definitely publicizing all aspects of this journey in Hollywood for sure
SPEAKER_00:that's awesome and how did you go about applying to colleges because you're in the film program and not the dramatic arts program what was your process like working through the college application process and what made you decide on your current major
SPEAKER_03:yeah so i feel like all high school i never even thought about college and i didn't have parents who were i didn't have parents who were sort of like pushing for me to go to college only because they didn't like i'm a first generation student um so i always knew that like i could have a career without getting higher education, also because like I was actively working in the film industry, like working on different shows. So I knew like I could go without college, but I think it's because of my time on set. like just reading scripts also like for auditions and stuff I was just so like captivated by writers and like I would read drafts and I'd be like oh my gosh this is really good like I want to talk to the writers on set I want to ask them questions so that's what I would do whenever I worked or had the opportunity to work um and then also like when I'd get audition scripts I'd be like oh like this one's poorly written and like I started developing my own taste just from years and years of reading material like thousands and thousands of audition scripts like over the past like 10 years of my life. And so I just started writing like on my own when I was 13. And I was like, man, like, I really want to show my ideas to people, but I feel like I don't necessarily have like, like, I want to put my best foot forward. And, you know, if I have industry connections from working on shows, I don't want to give them a bad reputation. script and then they're like okay like I'm not going to read any of her work so I was like maybe it's worth it to go to film school just so I could really develop my craft in that way I had already like done that with acting after just like auditioning working with directors on set so I sort of got like that like hands-on experience and because writing is like I don't know. Writing is different. Especially if you're 13 wanting to be a writer, nobody's going to put you in a room to learn. It might be easier to go to school and USC makes it really cool. They have workshop style classes with professors and all this stuff. So it sort of is modeled after traditional writer's rooms. So I was like, okay, I think USC might be the answer. But when I was applying to schools, I... really saw myself as like a production girl mostly because of my youtube experience i was always like the one man production doing all the things and so i was like okay like if i'm applying to film school like i need to apply for production so i applied to basically every school um with first choice production and i only applied to one school for screenwriting and that was usc and that was my second choice and thank god i did that because like I don't think I could do production at all. In fact, after years of working on set and then also being on some student sets, being on set is so boring. Also, the crew productions we had to do for 290, I did the little slate thing and I was also doing the lights. That was so boring. You're just sitting around set. It's fun when you're the talent because you just go to your trailer, you chill, but it is very much hurry up and wait. a lot of like setting things up. So like, I don't know, I'm really happy that writing found me and I feel like the stars aligned with like me getting into USC for writing and also it being like one of the top film schools. So it just affirmed for me like, yeah, all the work that I've been doing solo with writing and all of that, like it led me to being accepted into a super prestigious university. So I have to be somewhat good and I accepted and yeah, yeah that's my like application kind of story
SPEAKER_02:that's awesome you know a common trend i noticed with a lot of our guests is they started getting into filmmaking because they wanted to be a youtuber really yes it was really funny some of the most talented movie directors i know we've had on the show they were like i started you know in fourth grade wanting to be a youtuber and now i'm at you know usc film school so like what do you think is that path that dune YouTube and social media unlocks for creatives like movie directors? I
SPEAKER_03:mean, I think maybe it's just the fact that you can do anything. I feel like there's no pressure on anything. Film school feels really different because You have like a lot of eyes on you, like your material is going to get judged. I feel like when you're just doing it for YouTube, like you're in your room, you're by yourself and you're like, I have this fun idea. And also like the DIY aspect of like, OK, like how am I going to do it myself? And like, what am I going to use? You call up your friends like it is really an entrepreneurial process. And I think that leads into like the traditional film process. school thing because it is a lot about just like going after people and like figuring it out on your own so yeah I mean it's just like a really cool outlet for creativity but also like if you go far enough like building an audience to watch your things is also super appealing also like building up a portfolio that you can send to people I mean youtube is just the best place to like really showcase who you are as an artist um there's no barrier to entry you know some people can find that the traditional film industry like the barriers feel super high especially right now with the state of the industry so i think a lot more people are turning to youtube to like share their creative voice and we're only going to see more creatives from youtube and social media going into the traditional film industry
SPEAKER_02:yeah no totally and you know it's really cool to see that pipeline because you know like you said the film industry is not super accessible to everybody and now with social media it is and it's just so cool and it is inspiring a lot of people to be more creative as even a middle schooler
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_02:and get into film and i'm actually curious um because i know a lot of people like there's two approaches to youtube um from what i see one is they crank out a lot of videos really fast and other people they spend like months on one video to make it perfect and from your experience growing a channel and audience like what do you think is the right approach
SPEAKER_03:i think it really depends on the type of content you create because if you are a trend-based beauty-based fashion or like even lifestyle people want you know that appointment viewing weekly like check-in with you so if you're vlogging like you're gonna have to do that on a more consistent basis rather than uploading monthly like unless it's a super long form vlog maybe like recapping your whole entire month um but i think again it just really depends on the channel because i think youtube is leaning more towards the storytelling aspect especially because of the connected tv so i think the ones who choose to do like the monthly that's like really specifically outlined videos they're super highly curated and tailored for like a specific story that someone can follow for 30 minutes plus an hour um and you'll really like feel the quality of that content and it's it's also something more evergreen than a trend um it's usually like exploring something like a deep dive um yeah so i would say that's that's more of the difference um yeah
SPEAKER_02:and i i guess i asked kind of from my perspective as someone who's trying to do more YouTube videos, my channel is basically helping young filmmakers get into film and behind the scenes on my process and also some educational stuff. So for those videos, what's your thoughts on it? I
SPEAKER_03:think... consistency is always the best answer and i think like if you are wanting to be a mentor and a teacher like showing up consistently is a good thing like i would say for that for like educational type videos a weekly schedule would be important for you but also like if it is high quality content, what's great about educational content is it's evergreen. So when you go to like a YouTube search bar and you type in how to, like that's something that everybody's gonna be looking for for years to come. My videos that are how to based still get views to this day. I get comments on them like daily and they're from like three years ago. Evergreen content that's tutorial based will, last you a long time so it's okay to like take your time with that but I think like if you want to grow yourself as a brand you have to be super consistent um try for a few times a month for me it's even really hard to be consistent like I've implemented editors and things like that but even just like finding time to film with like finals and midterms and just weekly assignments and writing pilots and blah blah blah like it's a lot um but I would say definitely showing up to be like a mentor figure for people is super important but the content will last and last um because it's educational based
SPEAKER_02:that's true because sometimes i even for this podcast i feel like i could put like 20 extra hours per video or something to make it extra fancy extra cutty add a ton more b-roll yeah but i also don't don't know if it's worth putting in that much more time to make, you know.
SPEAKER_03:That's the hard balance that like I still struggle with and a lot of creators struggle with. It's like, but... I've heard from creators that like the version of the video you see in your head is not what anyone else is seeing. They just see what you put out. So it's like, it doesn't have to be like this perfect thing. Like, in fact, some of the things that you might feel are super necessary, someone might not even just notice. But I think if you have like, you know, standards for quality, then like stick to that. Like if you want to be known for that and you want that to be part of your brand, like make that a priority but it really just depends like sometimes I feel like people just want to see me show up and like it doesn't matter if it's super edited and sometimes like I've been like okay I just need to put a video out and I'm like this one's just going to be like super chill blah blah blah like not overly edited and that's what my viewers respond best to so you never really know I think it's just like feeling out what your audience wants um And yeah, but that is definitely a harder balance for sure.
SPEAKER_00:And going off of that, like how did you figure out how much content to put out on a weekly or monthly basis? Was that just something that you sort of ironed out over time or did you have like a plan starting out and then it just kind of evolved? down the line?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, I try to post weekly. It's definitely fallen off as of recently, just because I just went through midterms and all of that stuff. And I've been doing a lot of brand deals. So it's hard to juggle like paid work and then like also organic work and blah, blah, blah. But I'll say it's just really like gauging your audience's demand. Like you'll just hear your audience reach out to you. Like, oh, when's the next video coming out? We miss you. And then you'll start to gauge, okay, I need to be posting more. Even when I do post weekly, my audience will be like, yes, love the weekly videos. You just have to listen to your audience because at the end of the day, you're creating things for other people. You're serving other people. So it's good to keep that in mind because I feel like a lot of people who go into social media think of it as like, what can the internet do for me but it's really like ask not what the internet can do for you but what you can do for the internet how can you serve people bring them value and that's how you build a brand
SPEAKER_02:it's
SPEAKER_03:literally just thinking about how you can give value to other people that's how money will come that's how sponsors will come that's how you'll gain trust with people it is most most of the time like 99 of the time not about you a lot of people want to go in for the brand deals or like the monetization but like if you put the people first all that will come
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome. And going off of that, how do you make yourself stand out as a creator? Because YouTube has a fairly low barrier to entry. How do you stand out as a creator in this space?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think definitely everybody says authenticity, but that's very true. Just like being you, being yourself, like having fun. And just like, I feel like sometimes that's hard for people in terms of like, okay, you're talking to a camera and some people might not have experience with like looking into the dark barrel of a lens. And like people are like, just act like you're on FaceTime, but it's a little bit weird to just talk to no one. So I think practice makes perfect and like just getting used to like talking out loud. So that's one thing. I also think another way to stand out is by branding yourself with like a signature font or like your thumbnail style, just something so people can identify like oh, this is a video from Zhiyang, you know, or Richard. So I think that's super important. Like I have a consistent font throughout all my videos and also like the framing of my shots and like my thumbnails are pretty consistent. I don't really change up like the fonts or like positioning too much because it, I don't know, I just like seeing a channel page that looks like very consistent and aesthetic. So that's just a personal thing. But I think another way to stand out is probably just like, diversifying like the type of content you're posting on the platform. So for YouTube specifically, they're really pushing shorts right now. So you can post shorts like on Tuesday and then like maybe a longer form video on a Friday and like separating that out so you're reaching more people on the platform. And what's also cool about shorts is you can have a short that maybe pertains to like the video you made in a long form sense as like sort of an advertisement for that video. You can also link like Like, on the short, the long-form video, and they can just tap it right there, like, on the screen, and it'll take you to that video. So I really like doing that, but I would say, like, definitely the way to grow right now is short-form. I think, like... That's the way to break through all the noise and then using the short form to push towards like your longer form videos, having people fall in love with your personality, because I think the true relationships get built in long form and people like it.
SPEAKER_02:I'm curious because when you say build authenticity and like. showing yourself out there it to me it's like a lot of like vlogs and stuff but when I like for example like the educational stuff like how do I as a creator like show people my authentic self like through just teaching them how to do something
SPEAKER_03:that's a good question I think it's like just finding aspects of like who you are like it could be in the structure of your video or like how you describe um things do you know who Mike Isretel is so he's like a fitness influencer is like weird to say because he's older and he has like a bunch of degrees and he's a doctor um but he makes videos and it's just like educational content about fitness bodybuilding nutrition but he is insanely popular because he's super funny so like he'll make these like really crazy like jokes and stories and embellishments of like what he's talking about like he'll he'll put his educational terms in other words um another way to like be authentic to you is like if you really like editing or effects like add that into like your content um i remember when i was doing more educational stuff like i would have graphics and i would like i'm thinking about the one video where i did like how to break down a Um, like I would just do overlays and I would like... When I would give an example of action lines or how to do something cool, then I would set a scene and I would be like, interior, blah, blah, blah. And I'd have me with the background and the scene was coming up visually. I've also done a video where I reacted to the first script I ever wrote and I did a green screen and I was reading it, but I was also acting it out as each of the characters. And I was this character over here and this character over here, but it was a green screen and I put the background in to set the scene and the script was down here and I was reading it so you could see me act it out while seeing the words on the bottom it's just getting creative like that and it's like oh like okay like that's Michaela's signature like she has fun like while she's teaching things and I could be like see that action line was really wordy I could have cut that down or like oh like that was really stupid blah blah but like seeing me act it out adds visual interest because YouTube is a visual platform like if you're teaching about I don't know like camera tricks and stuff like you can have fun with that or you can have you know a skit with different characters like oh like is it smart to do this like with a camera tricking and then you as like the like teacher would be like actually no like you're talking to different versions of yourself there's always fun ways to spice it up to keep people watching throughout the entire video it's all about just getting really creative
SPEAKER_02:that's no that's a good point yeah being like fun with it i think would add a lot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Whatever's like natural for you. Like if, cause Mike Izzertal, like he has pretty much no effects. It's mostly people find him entertaining because of what he says. Um, sometimes it's just like really crazy. He's self deprecating and people like that. Like it's just one shot and he's just saying stuff and it's very entertaining just because of who he is. He's really expressive. Um, and that could be your signature. You know what I mean? So it all depends on like what feels natural to you.
SPEAKER_02:Gotcha. And right now you have a Like, 500k? Yes. Do you remember when you had, like, only 5,000 subscribers?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't know. That was so long ago. Like, it was probably when I was doing skits. Because, like, my skits popped off. Like, yeah. Because I optimized them for, like, search. So, like... the skits would always be based on something that like was super searchable for like my like audience that I wanted to reach so it was mostly like middle schoolers so like I looked up like how to be popular in middle school and then I would just do like a whole skit based off like that title so people would find it but it would be like a joke about searching that up like it would just it would be like stereotypes and things like that or it's like the types of kids you see at school like this is when like superwoman was super popular for doing like types of people blah blah blah like the 2010 kind of trend um but putting my own spin on it and like using people at school and like blah blah so like my early videos got a lot of views and like they probably got me to like 100k
SPEAKER_02:oh that's
SPEAKER_00:that's really
SPEAKER_03:cool yeah just just by optimizing like titles
SPEAKER_00:i know most of your content is um about your life and your acting but would you ever consider creating um short films that you put on youtube that are there for people to watch in a traditional sense and do you think that's a viable path for for filmmakers to shit their work on on the platform
SPEAKER_03:yeah i mean that is the goal ish in the future i it's really up in the air i think like post-grad i want to see how things work traditionally taking a traditional path of like trying to get my work done that way and if it doesn't work like YouTube will definitely be the answer to like creating things on my own because now that I mean social media has become like my source of like financial independence it's been really great to like put aside money so that if I ever want to finance my own projects like I have the funds to do that just through like the sponsors I work with um and also like thinking about how I can save those relationships to then if I do want to produce something like okay like we're gonna have a behind this behind the scenes series along with the actual project document all of that and like have a sponsor for each thing so this is like definitely a business plan that I've talked about with a few people that it's just sort of a thing like when it's right it's right it will happen but like if I have a behind the scenes thing and like it's like okay we're doing wardrobe like this is sponsored by Walmart and like they're providing all the wardrobe or if I'm like okay like cameras like I'm gonna be filming this whole short film on like this Canon camera and we're gonna be like using stand-ins right now to like figure out shots and stuff and like they're sponsoring that behind the scenes episode of this series to then filming the one episode and then releasing it so my audience is like a part of this journey with me thus creating more investment in the actual project when it comes out and i also do like i have connections to adobe i have connections to canon these are people i've worked with in the past on sponsorships and so it's like kind of coming at it from like hey like my audience they're a bunch of student filmmakers they're younger filmmakers and if like they learn to create things with your products that i also use and like love already like They already have student discounts available like for Adobe and for Canon probably. So it's like that's a way that I can kind of negotiate those deals and then eventually create things like with my audience. Like I would love to bring them into like the casting process and have them audition and really like creating a project that is sort of like. the internet's child and like bringing TikTok in blah blah blah and really creating like an actual movement of like we don't need the traditional industry like we can all do this together and this will be like our project of the internet so that's like a really big goal of mine later on and maybe that's bringing in writers that I meet online and like putting out a call like for writers we put together a room we develop a project together but again like that all you'd have to consider like legal things I do have an attorney that could probably help me with all of that stuff but you know with like IP and blah, blah, blah. But like that is something that I would definitely be open to. And that's something like I think will probably happen sometime in my 20s just because I feel like that is so specific to me like as an entrepreneur. And like I feel like it'd be a great way to break through not only for like my brand, my voice, but also like reach other creatives who don't get a voice. And that's always been like kind of like the ethos of my channel is like helping people learn more about a gate kept industry and like, we can all do this together and then maybe make a name for all of ourselves and bring everyone up. Cause I just think the state of the industry right now is super scary for a lot of people who are even in it right now, like the cost cutting and it's only gonna get worse. It's gonna be really hard to find jobs in the next few years. And so it's just a matter of like, doing it on your own and finding people who are creative and just like banding together because we are the next generation um so definitely in the future i hope to do that and um yeah we'll see if traditional works out but i think either way i would definitely like when i have a project that i think is right for the internet i'd do it that way
SPEAKER_02:okay that's awesome when you say traditional like path like what kind of like you know what are the steps that you're picturing yourself getting into
SPEAKER_03:yeah i mean like internship writer's assistant like working in a room type of thing and then like you know getting a general meeting to like pitch my own scripts and then blah blah blah you know we'll see like i don't even know what that entails yet like i just know the internet and i know how to do that really well um but i do have people in my network who can like help me figure out some of the traditional stuff but just traditional in terms of like i'm creative in those like traditional spaces. Is
SPEAKER_02:that the goal, to be a Hollywood writer? Or are you thinking more directing or producing?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think definitely... Out of college, I would love to be staffed in a room. Just working with other TV writers would be amazing. That'd be so cool. And then once I get enough experience in that, working my way up, figuring out the dynamics of being on a show that's running and how all of that energy works, then moving my way up to producing, being a writer-producer, and then eventually a showrunner on my own project. So it really just depends, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So you like TV more than movies right now? Yeah. Cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Every like feature class that I've had to write in, I'm just like, when will this be over? Like, I just want to go back to TV because the collaborative energy of like working in a TV writer's room is amazing. I'm in a pilot rewrite class right now. And just like the notes you get and then also like the room brain that you have on like ideas and people like throwing things in. It's just, it's amazing. so good and really you can't create anything amazing alone like just when you're with other people it enhances it so so much and like i mean all the things we love like are like a source of collaboration um so it Yeah, it's just TV is where it's at for me.
SPEAKER_00:Are there any overlaps between like the stuff you learn in class about like structuring or writing and your YouTube videos? Because I feel like a YouTube video would also require a lot of, you know, build up, suspense, you know, what's coming next. Are there any overlaps that you found to be helpful either in making a new video and then translating it in the work of writing for TV or vice versa?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think kind of. I think they're super different just because of how people... like come to the content, like there's different expectations. I think when someone turns on a show versus turns on a YouTube video, there's like a different like expectation of like attentiveness that is required to digest that. And also like the serialized nature of like a TV show versus so like how you would set up that episode if you're writing like a more serialized show versus episodic. like, setting that up is very different. I will say the similarities are, like, in the teaser, like, grabbing somebody in the first few seconds or whatever. Everybody, like, online says, like, the first three seconds of your short are, like, the most important, which is true. And same with, like, a TV show, like, especially if you go from it with, like, an episodic type of lens. I just, I love a good teaser. I think it's so much fun, so important. So, like, Definitely, I always make sure to have a teaser in my YouTube videos and I always have a good TV teaser when I'm writing my pilots. So yeah, stuff like that. And then just making sure there's a story there, period. I feel like even when I do have my vlogs, I'll try to put a story twist on it. And if you've seen my videos, I'm sure you've seen how sometimes I make things dramatic or... blah blah blah so uh yeah definitely i don't know it's just like part of how i think about it
SPEAKER_02:that's great would you because i saw you had a video it was like a year or two ago about how you quit acting is that still a thing like you're are you still not acting or
SPEAKER_03:yeah so when I posted that video I like took a break and then I started up again this year and then recently I haven't I haven't talked about this online actually but I recently dropped my manager and my agents for acting so now I'm fully not acting anymore I just personally like when I've had people that I work with like ask about my five-year plan it's always like oh like I want to create things with like the internet with my audience I want to like like I told you about that business plan I want to work with sponsors like the money I'm making on social media now is like compared to like I mean the nine ten years I did acting like I made all of that in a year
SPEAKER_01:like
SPEAKER_03:more so it's just like Really, I mean, right now it's just this competition between big screen and small screen. And if you're creating for small screen, you're making the money right now. And the bigger screen people are losing money. And that's just what it is. And it's always kind of going to be that tug of war in a way until I think the industry can figure itself out in terms of who's running it. Because I feel like it's crazy how the same people... Back in the day, like... It was like people in their 30s coming in to run these studios. And those same people who came in then are still there. And there hasn't sort of been this churn to keep up with it. I don't know if you guys listen to The Town or anything. But definitely do that to just keep up with everything that's going on. But it's just like we need... newness and also like I've been doing it for so much of my life and I feel like this is exciting right now and like figuring out who I am outside of that is interesting but it was definitely hard like it was a big identity thing like something like growing up going to parties like oh like you're that girl who does like the shows oh I watched you on TV blah blah and like having that be your identity for like past 10 years of your life and then having to like cut the cord on like people who represented you or even just having the option to go back but every time i would turn on the camera to do a self-tape or like even get an audition email for like some really great projects i was just not excited i was just like dreading it and it had been like that for a few years and i think like i was finally at the point where it was just like a culmination of too much like social media work too much school work and then also like acting like auditions I was like I just need to cut the cord plus I hadn't been working for a while just because I was prioritizing other things I was like yeah I don't need this on my plate and I think like if I really say that I want to be an entrepreneur a writer and someone creative behind the scenes like I need to focus on that um because I already separate my energy in way too many places so yeah
SPEAKER_02:How do you, like, where do you think you learn the most to be a, first of all, a content creator? And where do you see yourself learning the most to be, like, a writer?
SPEAKER_03:Just through doing it. Like, that's the best way to learn. Like, just do it and get feedback. Do it and get feedback. And get notes, be receptive, be critical sometimes. You know, not every note's a good note. That's why you get notes from a lot of people. And then do it again. and keep going i've been doing youtube almost as long as i've been doing acting basically my whole life that's all i know and now everybody like now i see everybody hopping on that bandwagon i'm like damn like this was my whole childhood and i'm so glad i started early um because it's like like i've been putting in the work basically my whole life and like i don't know anything else other than like constantly thinking about content youtube my life how to monetize it how to film it how to edit it that's all that goes on my brain like every day that's like I don't know how to operate without it. Like even when I was doing acting, I was like, okay, how do I monetize this career through filming it, through editing it? It's just, that's been my life. And now I feel like a lot more people are doing that. So I don't know. It's just like all I've known. You just got to do it. Like that's really it. Yeah. No waiting.
SPEAKER_00:And going back to the getting notes part, how do you identify the... Good notes from the maybe not so great notes. And there are a lot of noise on the internet, as you probably know. And how do you go about, you know, finding the critical responses and then really incorporating it into the more in an organic way rather than, you know, sacrificing maybe your authenticity?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I feel like I get more notes. Like if I get notes online, it's more so like post-mortem. and then I feel like when I said notes I feel like more notes like in terms of writing and then like traditional filmmaking and it really I feel like it just depends on like how someone gives a note and notes like There's a really great episode from John August and Craig Mazin, Script Notes. I don't know if you guys listen. I've been a listener since high school. But they have an episode called Notes on Notes. And I would highly recommend reading that just like as a creative, like being in this industry, like figuring out the best way to phrase giving notes to other people. But usually like I'm most receptive to notes that really take in like the totality of like my story and sort of like the... like I like a mechanical kind of note like okay like I'm giving you this note because if you're trying to do this achieve this theme um achieve this arc with the character I think this this and this will really like flow well with that and it'll help you achieve that whereas like a note it really just depends like I think if you're seeking notes as like a creative like Outline like, okay, I need help with this, this, and this. Like be specific because sometimes people can get off track and also ask them to give macro notes and then also micro notes. So overall large story structural problems, have those addressed over here. And instead of like... someone just giving you notes, like nitpicky kind of notes where it's like, oh, I think you should change this line or like blah, blah, blah. Like let's address like the larger problems. And then once we have sort of the whole structure figured out, let's go in at a scene level. It's really all about working macro to micro. Like that's just how my brain works. And I think like that's the best way to kind of like approach creative things and address those problems. But it's all about like figuring out like what's a good note and what's not. I mean, sometimes like... a good note is the one that really hurts like you're like yeah like you know it's like no that's not a good note but you feel some sort of way about it yeah it's probably a really good note because it's hitting you like in a certain spot you know what i mean um and that's maybe something to like take a look at i feel like just like creative instinct sometimes sometimes is enough to like figure out what's a helpful note and what's not because when someone gives a good note like you feel it and you're like oh my god that would make it so much better like i had a great note session in my last rewrite class and the professor was like if you did this and this and then he said this and i was like oh my gosh or when he pitched something else. And then I just started laughing for like a minute straight. I was like, that has to go in. Like just that like suggestion, like it just, you feel it in your body and you're like, yeah, I should, I should do that. Or if you think about it, even when you're writing or, you know, editing or whatever. then maybe it's, like, something to listen to. You just feel it in your body because you're creative. You have that intuition, you
SPEAKER_02:know? Right. I mean, I think so much of writing is basing on your feelings. Like, does that make you excited, right? Does that inspire you to keep going in that direction? And also, back to some of the YouTube side. Like, when it comes to, like, monetizing YouTube, like, how much would you say is from just the ad revenue, like, percentage-wise for you? And how much is it, like, the other stuff, like, brand deals and stuff?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay. So, like... In terms of like my whole social media, like the money I make on there, like the pie, like how much is like monetization versus brand deals. I feel like in the beginning it was definitely AdSense was most of the pie and now it's like a very small sliver of sponsorships. Yeah, I feel like if you know, you know, in terms of like... back in the day with national commercials i mean people still make commercials now but like when i was younger auditioning like everybody was like you need to get a national commercial because those pay so much money and this was before like all of the you know social media advertising and stuff but i mean five figure deals like really great money just to be in like a 30 second spot um so i remember like around town like people were like oh yeah like they booked a national so you know like we got that good check coming in and basically like Nowadays, flip the script, I feel like all advertising is pretty much on digital social media. And, like, nobody really pays for traditional commercials anymore when you have to pay a production company who has to set up trailers for talent, do casting, bring a crew in, blah, blah, blah. Whereas now, you can get a bunch of influencers, pay out a smaller portion of what you would pay to produce a national commercial. And you get a lot more reach. And I feel like social media advertising is really dominating right now just because it's so proven. Nobody's watching those things. I don't know what they're called, but it's where people try on the stuff and they're like, this is the outfit you can wear. Call this number. You know those TV shows that would have that?
SPEAKER_00:Like there's a channel and it's
SPEAKER_03:just like for product.
SPEAKER_00:You know what I mean? And then they switch to the next one and they're like, this is a new thing. And then if you click off that button, then they get like,
SPEAKER_03:yeah, it's,
SPEAKER_00:I
SPEAKER_03:don't know what it's called, but maybe someone, I
SPEAKER_00:think I've come across it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's like old school, but like, I feel like all advertising is pretty much on social media, but also like nobody consumes traditional cable anymore. Right. which was advertising-based. Now we're in streaming. Most streaming is subscription-based. Now they're changing it because television is cyclical. Also, it's like you hit the plateau on subscribers. Advertising is always where it's at to have long-term revenue, which is why YouTube works so well, blah, blah, blah. And now Netflix is trying to be like YouTube and it all goes in a cycle, right? But all that said, advertising... with brands is really great money um and it's basically every job is national commercial money
SPEAKER_02:okay so but like doing the brand deals are a lot better than just focusing on ads now
SPEAKER_03:i think adsense is like always great because it's stable and it's also like passive income Usually in terms of like an ad, that's just a flat rate. And like over time, like you just have that money and it's just, you take the money and then that's the end of the ad. But if you have an evergreen video, if you have a tutorial based video or something that people really like and they go back to, you're gonna be making money off of that for years. I still make money off my old videos today.
SPEAKER_00:Gotcha. Wow, that's awesome. And earlier you talked about like, how do you like stay ahead of, the curve because things are always cyclical and it's changing. A lot of times it is unpredictable. So how do you make sure that you're creating content that is relevant and is at the cutting edge of the current overall media landscape? And do you ever think about ways to experiment with things that maybe nobody else has tried before? And what was that process like for you?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I feel like in terms of staying relevant it's super important to lean towards being personality based because no matter what you're creating whether it's trend based like if you're trying to stay cutting edge like on top of like what's coming out and trying to like stay like popular and sort of like okay like this is what's going on in the news like doing that or if you're doing like tutorial based and you want to do that for a long time and kind of like staying fresh with ideas really just leaning on your personality will keep your viewers invested for a long time so whether that's like talking about what's going on in your life um i mean lifestyle is such like an evergreen avenue but i think it's like again putting yourself at the forefront of whatever you make because like people go to the internet for information to learn like especially in your case um and like the case of this podcast like people want knowledge um but also like positioning positioning yourself as like the person who can give you that knowledge and like building that relationship is how no matter where the internet goes or what happens like your viewers will stay invested with you and they're gonna want to see like what you do because like I feel like I have gradually transitioned out of the acting sphere. And like, I want my audience to know like that's in the past. So I don't know, maybe I'll do like one final update about like, because I haven't announced that I dropped my agents and managers and stuff. Maybe I will do that. We'll see. Probably just to close that chapter. I feel like it's always important to move forward because I've seen some creators who still make the same content that they did seven years ago. And sometimes I'm like, oh, like, That's a little bit like, I would feel kind of embarrassed to be stuck in that. And I remember Cody Ko, who's controversial now, but Cody Ko and Noelle, they had this series called That's Cringe. I don't know if you guys are familiar. but it was a super popular like reaction series and they only did like a limited number of videos and they were like this was its time this was its era and like we're not going to do any more of them because like we don't want to stay stuck in that trope or in the past and i think that's super important for creators to recognize like when you're not inspired with a certain topic anymore like you can always pivot but pivoting is only like it'll only work if you position yourself at the forefront of your brand not like this thing this other thing is my brand or whatever like let's say you review Hermes bag and it's like this is the new Hermes bag and these are all the specs about the new Hermes bag and nobody cares like really who's giving the information and that's why short form is so hard to stand out because you can scroll through short form for an hour two hours and if somebody asks you like oh like who did you watch you won't remember the creator, but you will remember the content. You have to have people remember the creator before your content. So if you make workout videos, like everybody knows how to do squat, whatever. You can learn that anywhere. But I want to see Jiang do a squat. You know what I mean? Or I want to see Richard curl a barbell. Why? Because he's going to tell me a funny story while he's doing it. Why? Because he's going to have these really cool shots while he's doing it. And like, I want to get it from him. Or like when news comes out and it's like the White Lotus season finale, like, oh my gosh, everybody's going to post about it. Wait, I want to see what you have to say. That... is how you stay relevant for a long time and you can make whatever you want and people will watch.
SPEAKER_00:And something you just touched on right now, it reminded me of a quote of saying like, creativity is about recombination. It's about taking one thing and then another and then putting it together in a special and unexpected way. Was there ever an instance where you sort of went with that approach? Do you ever create with that approach? And do you think that's like something that creators should keep in mind when, and making out, making content with like, you know, um, you know, use a white Lotus and then someone else saying it with a story or, you know, working out, but then someone else, um, coming up with interesting story with it. So what do you, how do you go about recombination and is that a helpful process for you in terms of creating content?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, I never thought of it that way. I think this is how I like naturally think about stuff just because, um, especially when I want to do content that is more trend-based, and I do have, like, I've been planning out the next quarter and, like, figuring out, okay, like, this is what I want to lean into, blah, blah, blah, like, tailoring all of my classes here so I have more time to, like, focus on other projects, but definitely, like, I have been thinking about incorporating more lifestyle, which means, like, more, like, kind of general content where I do have to be at the forefront, so, I mean, like, yeah, just, I mean, I don't really have an answer, but usually, like, in the planning process, that's when it comes together. So it's like thinking like, okay, like this is searchable or this is what's worked in the past. Like, how can I switch it up? Because you always wanna like, when you're a new, when you're a new creator, you want to lean into SEO and like search based things. So in order to get discovered, people are like searching every day. You want to like fall under what's being searched for.
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_03:when they click on your video, make sure you're at the front of that with something creative, like you're saying about like recombination. And I feel like that all happens in the outlining phase of your content. I feel like a big mistake people make is like just like making without any plan. And that's like, fun when you're just like kind of getting into it but when you really want to become a business when you really want to figure out like okay like i know this is gonna get views because like i planned out the first three seconds this is the shot this is all of that like it's a super intentional thing that i think like especially traditional Hollywood doesn't give social media creators a lot of credit for especially creators at the higher levels it is all planned out every shot what people say when people do it I mean like that it is highly curated in order to keep people's attentions um and so like planning out how you can make something special it it really happens at the outlining phase and then going to shoot it
SPEAKER_00:And just as like a thought experiment, say if I start a YouTube or Instagram channel or Instagram account, I have zero followers, brand new, what are like top three advice that you would give me to create my first piece of content on the platform?
SPEAKER_03:First, audience. Who do you want to speak to? Who do you want to reach? Because you can make something for everyone and you're reaching no one, you know, people say that, whatever. But it's true. So think about who you want to reach. Figure out your audience. Sometimes people like to think of avatars and like they write out like, okay, like my ideal viewer and they'll like do like three of them. Like this viewer goes to this school and they like these books and they're interested in these topics. I'm talking to them whenever I make a video. I'm talking to Alicia. or whatever. And you make those people and you're like, okay, I'm trying to reach them. So what would they search on YouTube? What would they watch? Number two is looking at search. So you can open an incognito browser. I tell everybody who wants to like do YouTube this, like all my friends, I'll like be like, okay, this is what you're gonna do. Open an incognito browser on YouTube, type in a keyword that one of your avatars would look up or something related to your niche and see all the things that populate underneath it. That's what you're gonna put in your titles. And then third, I would think about Storytelling and thumbnail. So kind of four. But those are both really important because once somebody clicks on your video, you want them to stay. Watch time is super important. But making sure it looks good enough to click on is important. And then the story after that and making it unique and making it you is super important. But that's probably the order I would go in.
SPEAKER_02:For me, because I feel like I know kind of what the audience is, but I don't really know how to like scale that.
SPEAKER_03:As
SPEAKER_02:in like... I make the video the same people watch as it. I'm
SPEAKER_03:like,
SPEAKER_02:I don't
SPEAKER_03:know. Well, what are like your titles and stuff? Because there's a way to be niche, but also expand it to a larger audience, which is something I want to experiment more with. So in terms of like trend-based stuff, like remember when it was super popular, like Instagram chooses my routine? thing
SPEAKER_02:okay
SPEAKER_03:where it was like instagram decides like my morning and it's like the whole feature on instagram where it's like you can choose one or the other right so like that was a really big trend a few years ago you could flip that and like make it part of your niche so it's always good to have a balance of like um if you're more educational based but you want to like expand having like your core like tutorial based things, but then also having something that's like wider reach, whether that's using like popular celebrities, things in the news, blah, blah, blah. So like for me, whenever like when the strikes were happening, that's like a news thing. So more people are searching for that. So like that's going to reach a wider audience than like how to write a script. But over time, like that video has done really well because it's evergreen. So like think about the pillars of your brand. So here's education. Here's fun challenges. Here's news-based things. And then, but it's all under the umbrella of film, right? So you don't have to be just one thing because that's how you get really bored and you loathe it. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Think about how you can make it fun. So back to like the poll thing. Way back in the day, I didn't do it because it's like, I was really busy and I wish I did it. But with the like poll, I was like, oh, like, my instagram followers choose like my movie scene so it's like they pick the characters and they pick where it takes place and whatever combination they come up with i have to write it and then we see what it's like so like that's a fun way to like take your niche and make it something like more popular or like that title could reach more people mike isertel the one that i said about bodybuilding and stuff he gives like the bare bones like tutorial based things he does collabs with other fitness people that could be another way to expand and scale
SPEAKER_01:but
SPEAKER_03:also um he does workout critiques so he reacts to like kevin hart's workout routine or the liver king and people know those titles so they'll say exercise scientist reacts to the liver king blah blah blah and they're like oh my gosh, his critiques are really interesting. He's funny. Let me see his other videos. He sounds credible. Let me go to his core advice videos and I'll watch those. But then I want the fun stuff. And you get all the aspects of your personality and people get to see that because we're not just one thing. You don't have to make one type of video. Just make it consistent with your niche. You don't want to do cooking and then go do sports. You know what I mean? It doesn't make sense. You'd open a new channel for that. But it's really just about sitting down, writing, okay, this is my channel. This is the main umbrella what falls under that and how can I make it fun
SPEAKER_02:that is such a cool way of looking at it I never really thought of making it more fun I always thought how can I teach more I guess but I think that's a great way to expand Noah thank you so much for that
SPEAKER_03:like I did like monologue critiques so like getting my audience involved in like okay send me your videos and I'm like okay these are the three that got selected and then everybody's like oh my gosh like I got put in and like audience engagement and stuff like that so yeah
SPEAKER_02:That's cool. Critique some short films or something. Yeah, maybe. I'm thinking
SPEAKER_03:about maybe doing like a script notes kind of three-page challenge in the future. But I'd have to figure out how to make it visually interesting because nobody wants to just see me read. So it's all about thinking about things like that.
SPEAKER_02:Also, look right there. So you see that it's called a brick. in the corner of the whiteboard and it's essentially this thing where I touch my phone and like it locks all my social media and I literally can't access it unless I tap that thing again and the thing is I feel like I'm on Instagram too much or on YouTube too much and I'm wasting a lot of time on social media but as someone who makes social media content you kind of have to be on the lookout for new things happening so how do you find a balance of not being addicted to your phone
SPEAKER_03:yeah I actually don't go on my phone that much um I will say it's probably good for me to be on it a little bit more only because like that's my business. But I feel like because I'm so intentional about like my niche, like I'm not kind of like looking for just like anything that's coming up like with trends or blah, blah, blah. Like I feel like, again, it's always that hard balance of like being trend-based versus like evergreen content and tutorial-based and stuff like that. But I just try to stay off my phone for mental health reasons and like... yeah i don't know i think it's just like finding other things like you're busy like you have other things you know what i mean like you can be like working on your scripts i also feel like school just keeps me off my phone you know what i mean and whenever i do go on my phone like it's always just like for a long time on instagram specifically it's not good but also like instagram um it actually like I rage quit out of the app, like multiple times a day. Like I've hidden it on my phone. Cause it actually makes me mad in terms of like the infrastructure of the app. Like when you open it, at least on my feed usually the first thing served as a video not from someone i'm following and then like you kind of keep like scrolling and
SPEAKER_01:it
SPEAKER_03:it'll be like a combination of video photo photo video and as you keep going deeper you'll notice your feed change to just video it's like be aware like while you're scrolling what's happening to the infrastructure of the app also like when you go to post on like instagram um you press like the little like like you'll swipe over and then do like the plus sign or whatever to post usually it'll open up directly on a reel uh so you know it'll be like post story reel whatever usually it's already default positioned on real so that's how you kind of know what they want you to be
SPEAKER_01:making right
SPEAKER_03:um so look at the apps see what they're serving you first when you first open the home pages it's really like good signaling um but i feel like instagram just gives me like oh i just don't like it because it makes me feel dumb it's like oh you think you're pulling that on me like no i'm not like going into this like scroll thing with a bunch of people i don't follow so then i quit out of the app because i'm like now i'm upset so it's like yeah i i'm not a big instagram person for that reason and i'll just like be doing like my school work or like figuring out other things to do i will say like i definitely spend a lot of my time with podcasts um and then youtube youtube is fun because you get to select the creators and like that's the big difference between short form and then long form um specifically on youtube even though tick tock is pushing long form videos if you didn't know you want to be making longer content across the board even instagram um just make sure people are the watch retention is good so structuring it out and being intentional but the difference is like i was telling you earlier When people are scrolling TikTok for however many hours, they're not going to remember the creator. But on YouTube, the infrastructure is set up so that you have to actually click on someone or search someone's name. They're put at the forefront. They also have like their own channel page. They can decorate it. They can, you know what I mean? So it's set up for building like a stronger relationship on a creator basis.
SPEAKER_02:That's true. How do you like pick what platform do you usually post on? Like, do you try just testing things out or do you scatter them around? How do you, what's your approach to that? Uh,
SPEAKER_03:post everywhere because you want to reach the most amount of people, but drive people to your main source of income. So for me, that's YouTube, um, their monetization. I have been noticing though that TikTok's monetization is pretty good. So I will probably be leaning more into that, but usually I just like to post everywhere and then at the end of the video or either like in the caption, push people to go to my YouTube channel because at the end of the day, that's where you create like the stronger bonds with your audience. So like post everywhere, market yourself everywhere, you know, throw the net out and get the big net, put it in the ocean, catch all the fish and, you know, then size down to your main platform.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Wow. so much like goes into this like
SPEAKER_03:yeah it's yeah and a lot of people i feel like don't think influencers are like super smart i feel like a lot of people take them for granted and literally the show i'm writing is a social media satire and i make fun of influencers it's a thing um but yeah i will say like it really just depends on the type of creator but a lot of them are super intentional especially at the highest level like you see like mr beast talk about his process like It's very, very intentional. So, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Cool. I mean, you do so much things. Like, you consistently get straight A's, which I am just so envious of. That's, like, so awesome. And you're doing your schoolwork, your health. How do you balance everything?
SPEAKER_03:Balance? I mean, I'm still trying to figure that out. Some days lean more on other things than others. Things get sacrificed. But I always kind of... live by the motto of like what you don't sacrifice for you're willing to sacrifice and at first i didn't really get that quote but then somebody put it like okay like if you if you don't sacrifice for the gym you're willing to sacrifice your body if you don't sacrifice for youtube you're willing to sacrifice your audience the income you make all that if you don't sacrifice for school you're willing to sacrifice good grades so things like that i think it's obviously like making a priority list like The way I think is best for me is knowing my long-term plan and what's serving that. And so if like, I mean, believe it or not, like I've been like school, like I can chill on school. I mean, I still get good grades, which is crazy. But like, I'm more so like, okay, I'm taking down the amount of classes I need because like YouTube is financially serving me. And I think it long-term will like keep serving me. Nobody really looks at degrees like, even though this is a great school. I mean, people will know the name and blah, blah, blah, the network. It's still valuable. My mentor told me for different places he's worked at, he used to work at Netflix, but they put aside resumes from the top four film schools from the rest of the pile. So there is some benefit to it. But it is an entrepreneurial industry, and also if you're just good, you're good. if you have a degree if you don't if it's a good script like somebody's gonna you know what I mean that's just how it is so it's like for me like school has kind of been pushed back like sometimes I'll skip classes just to work on brand deals or things like that but it's just like knowing your limits but also knowing like what's a priority for your long term goals and yeah just cutting out things you don't need also working out has been a really great way for me to just like de-stress stay balanced mentally like just good food and then working out like really really really helpful
SPEAKER_02:no I mean I see a lot of your week in the life videos that you're like making really healthy food and like consistently I don't know going to the gym and stuff and like what's your routine to keeping like healthy you know
SPEAKER_03:uh my routine I don't know just like showing up like even when I don't want to because I just feel like working out and just carving out that little bit of time like workouts for a lot of people suck when you get fit then they don't suck but like at first they really do suck um but what's great about them like is if you're like weight lifting or running and you're like trying to meet a goal or you're trying to push a weight up like that's all you're gonna be able to focus on and if you don't focus on that the weight's gonna fall on you so it's like you have to mentally check out of everything else going on in your life. And you're just completely present with your body. And as a creative, we are always in our heads thinking about what's going on with this. And wait, wait, wait, there's this thing I'm editing. Maybe I should rearrange it here. And we're walking and we're just thinking about things that aren't even in front of us. You know what I mean? And when you're in the gym, you just focus on that. And it's sort of meditative. So for me, just working out, playing music... has been a great distressor because you don't think about any of it and it just like all goes away. So for me, it's a great way to get out of my head and into my body. Meditating every night has really been helping. There's this app called Headspace and they have a student discount and that's really been helping, like just doing like breathing before bed. Melatonin helps, cause you know, caffeine is just what we need for school, like to survive. And yeah, then like with food and stuff, like for me, I do eat out a lot, but it's because I'm like, okay, well I'm working, like I'm going to make the money back. And also it's just like the opportunity costs of it all. I just, I eat out a lot. So that's kind of like helping for me in terms of juggling all my work. I don't have to cook all the time. I do try to cook because I like knowing what's going into my food. But when I do, when I do eat out, like I'll, make healthy choices like I'll go to kava or whatever um so yeah but definitely in terms of like when I have like brand deals and events I'm like I'm just gonna eat out because like I'm working on something that's gonna bring me more money anyway and like this is in service of like something larger so that's just something that i'm in a privileged position to do because eating out all the time is like not sustainable but for me and my lifestyle it's super important so
SPEAKER_02:i mean you are as someone so young and you are making a lot of like revenue streams coming in like how did you learn to organize that and like you know be on top of all that
SPEAKER_03:yeah that's definitely a process um i do have a s corp so i have a business um that all my parents production stuff falls under so like all of my sponsorship revenue goes through my business all my services are through my business um and I do have employees so like editors and my assistant um I also have legal so it's just something like With, I mean, my managers have been great at like helping me in terms of like, okay, like maybe we should get an attorney. I have connections, blah, blah, blah. But like finding editors has been like a journey in itself just because I have really high standards of like content and things like that. And I still edit my videos like all the time too. It's just not something I can like let go of, but definitely it has been a help just for like being more consistent. So in terms of like managing all of that, like I'll do payouts for people. I have QuickBooks. But it's definitely a journey that I'm on. And this year, I really want to lock in on understanding more about finances and also diversifying my money. I have a lot saved up that, one, I want to save for potential projects that I want to finance if it comes to that. But obviously, I try to find investors and things like that because who wants to use their own money? Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I just want to learn more about, like, investing and, like, long-term things. So, it's just a journey. Like, I was trying to take accounting just to, like, learn more about it and I still do want to take accounting because I think it's super important for anyone to take. because we live in a capitalist society must be like we live in a capitalist society like it's not a bad thing it's just a fact like that's how it works and you just need to know about finances because the language of everything we do like yes we're in a creative industry but it's also contingent on business it's the entertainment business and they go together usually business is a little bit ahead of the creative part so understanding both how finances work accounting uh all of that i think is something i'm super interested in like i i potentially might continue my education just to learn about business um and all that it's just like so boring but like if like if it was entertainment business then maybe i'd be more excited to do it but i think knowing the fundamentals of like managing money and like investing and blah blah is super important to me so yeah we'll see that's a journey that i want to carve out more time for
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. No, the other day I was looking at one of my friend's stories. She was like, I just edited a video for Michaela and Rebecca.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Rebecca, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's so cool, you know, building a team. Like, how do you go about, like, hiring people to work on your business and stuff?
SPEAKER_03:Just emailing. And it's also, like, usually people I know. So, like, we've been following each other for a while. We met at commencement, and we had just been following each other. So just seeing, like, you know, things. And then I... dm'd her i was like hey like i know you're at the film school do you know any editors blah blah she's like oh i edit blah blah here's my portfolio and it just kind of starts that way um and then you see their work and it's like okay like i have a video here's a project let's see if we can do it and like a lot of communication through like frameo you know that yes frame.io or however people say it yeah um and yeah just like doing it that way and you know before all that starts obviously like negotiating like okay what's your rates and like here's my budget what can we work out and then revisions that's an extra cost blah blah invoice me 14 days blah blah but you know it's just kind of like that yeah that's sick
SPEAKER_02:No, I mean, I think it's so important to delegate people, like, when you can, you know, to save on, like, what you said, the opportunity cost and stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's cool. Back on, like, film and stuff, like, what kind of movies are you more passionate about? Like, what style of movies?
SPEAKER_03:Movies?
SPEAKER_02:Or, oh, I'm sorry, TV shows? No, it's okay. I
SPEAKER_03:do love a good movie. I mean, I read, like, The Blacklist all the time. I guess that's not really, like... produced movies, but I love reading, like, features. They're just fun. Like, it feels just like a little, I mean, I don't know, I guess an episode. They're pretty much the same length now. Like, TV is long. Oh, yeah. But the style I gravitate towards in terms of TV, I love social satires. I think those are, like, my favorite. So, like, A White Lotus. I love Succession. Something that I like but I could never write is Severance. Like, very... very well done um i also just love like the rhythm and music of like traditional um like procedural but like procedural with a twist so like suits i'm really into right now just like the rhythm of the scenes and how like it sounds is so good and like the dialogue i love dialogue based um shows and stuff that's why i'm like i don't think i could ever write like a severance because i just need dialogue i also like things that lean more funny um i always thought i was like a drama writer but as i write more i feel like i'm leaning into comedy but in the like hour-long format So I mean, I love Entourage. That's half hour, but I love it. And then 30 Rock is one of like my all time favorite shows. So I don't know, like a wide array of things.
SPEAKER_02:That's sick. You're like one of the first TV person
SPEAKER_01:on the podcast. We
SPEAKER_02:had an editor actually who wants to edit for TV shows. So I guess, you know, it is a lot of people like still into that. I've been watching The Black Mirror recently. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:okay.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm really impressed by the creativity all these shows have.
SPEAKER_03:That's pretty much features. right you know they're like
SPEAKER_00:structured feature but on a shorter length yeah is there like an anthology yeah series without like um yes yeah
SPEAKER_03:yeah exactly
SPEAKER_02:yeah that's true
SPEAKER_00:but i guess if you're say staffed on the show like 30 rock as a um either writer's assistant or even just a staff writer in the writer's room how would you then balance um that part of your work and your creator part of your work on youtube and in just
SPEAKER_03:figure it out because it's like that's just what I've done my whole life like even when I was working on sets I mean being staffed is probably more demanding because like you have to like clock in and blah blah so I don't know I mean that's a question for when it comes for sure but like maybe using weekends or whatever I want to expand to like doing like more live events not like in like When I say live events, like not like an auditorium or like a concert hall, but like I want to start a movie club and bring my audience in to like watch things and like maybe like have hoodies and merch and stuff like that. So I think just finding any way to connect with my audience, even if I am working like full time somewhere. But I mean, really, we'd have seen it. I'd also have to see like how much I'd get paid because it's like. which one's gonna benefit me more like it's just a really hard balance um but also i feel like tv shows now like 30 rock is like very traditional like 22 episode tv shows now are a lot shorter uh they run a lot shorter and just like the room process of it all is just shorter so i feel like i'd be able to work around it and stuff like that
SPEAKER_02:and talking about the state of the industry I've seen a few of your videos on that but what do you because it is technically like contracting right and it's harder and harder to get jobs for the people who are still like you know wanting to do the industry like what advice do you have for people who can you know stand out from the crowd to get those you know the few jobs out there
SPEAKER_03:I mean just kind of going out and doing it and then when you have like a job interview like showing what you've created. I just feel like it's so much easier for people to see your talent rather than just telling people about it. You can tell people, yeah, I know how to do this and this, but if you show them, I feel like that's a stronger buy-in to, like, someone. So I don't have that much experience with, like, traditional jobs, to be honest. Like, I've always worked for myself. But I feel like when I do go after internships or stuff like that, like, I'm going to be leading with, like, I create things and this is what I've built. And, like, just showing people that, like, you're already doing good work. Like, good work is going to only beget, like, better things for you. And, like, just prioritizing quality and just, like, just... producing good stuff like my sister is um she's going through that right now she called me the other day and she's like i saw this ad you did and it was like really good and blah blah and she's like i'm like doing this music festival and i'm trying to make it good and like not sacrifice quality and like some people are low-balling me but i'm like it doesn't matter like Quality is the most important thing. Like, it'll pay off. Like, good work pays off. Whether you're getting paid for it, whether you're not. Because, like, if you can show that and people respond to it, like, you're going to get opportunities. So, I would say, like, for someone who's applying to jobs, like... always focus on what you can control and i think like that's why i gravitated towards youtube in a lot of ways because with acting you can't control anything like you're you audition and then you wait for a yes like you wait for permission to work on something whereas youtube you can go ahead and do it with writing you can go ahead and do it and if it's good then you'll get the opportunity but just focusing on making whatever you create good like that's all that matters um so Yes, like apply for jobs, blah, blah. But that's something you ultimately can't control. So also have a part of your life where you can control things. And if you're a filmmaker or creative, a great place to do that is social media. So maybe that's something to consider.
SPEAKER_00:Going off of like a changing media landscape, one of the bigger impacts right now or topics is AI. What do you think AI's impact will be in industry? And how should we as creatives, or I guess an intersection between business and creative, how should we leverage it and stay ahead of the curve?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I don't really know much about AI. I've done a few videos on it. I know all the strikes and stuff with it, but I feel like I don't know enough about the technology to make an assessment as to... how i think it will impact the future of the entertainment industry i know that some unions have put protections against it so like sag after my union we have protections against ai and then the wga has some restrictions on it in terms of how you can use it to write projects um but like in terms of its capabilities just because i don't personally use ai that much um if i AI does appear in my life it's like through Google because it like is built into the system unfortunately so I'm like thinking about changing my browser um things like that so it's just not something I even really use on a daily basis to understand how it's used in the creative sense with like all that stuff I know um There was a Script Notes episode where somebody talked about how it was, like, used for, like, audio fixing and stuff, which is great. I think the tool use is good, but as long as our unions keep putting restrictions on its use of, like, people and, like, replacing jobs, I think it could be a great benefit for, like, tools and, like, just making the process faster and easier in terms of, like... production and stuff like that and maybe even the writing process um so yeah but i don't really i don't really know how to answer that one
SPEAKER_02:no i saw like on instagram there's someone who took a picture of a billboard from ai company and it was like don't hire humans use ai this thing and they blurted it out and i was like that's crazy i don't know i mean i do know a lot of creators you know are using it to leverage like creating youtube videos and even making, like, AI videos, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, I've seen,
SPEAKER_03:like, a few of those. It's, like, the voice, and then they just do, like, stock images.
SPEAKER_02:Right, and some even put their own, like, face in it, and then it's, like, AI of themselves making these videos. That's
SPEAKER_03:interesting.
SPEAKER_02:It's crazy. It's nuts.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't know. Not my thing. Not your thing. Not something I would consume either, but, I mean, it really depends on the quality, but.
SPEAKER_02:That's true. I
SPEAKER_03:don't know.
SPEAKER_02:also what what are all the you did a podcast recommendation on one of your like week in the life videos
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_02:i was like yo i gotta like look all these up because i never heard of the town and you low-key
SPEAKER_01:put me on that okay which is
SPEAKER_02:my favorite podcast
SPEAKER_01:ever yeah yeah
SPEAKER_02:um but since that video do you have any new podcast finds
SPEAKER_03:new podcast no i'm a creature of habit okay it's like yeah i mean if i could i'd eat the same breakfast every day go to the gym at the same time like structure is great and so i always like even if i have like i mean you know dulce you already know that i go there all the time yeah like i always order the same thing like i i'm just like a creature of habit so i have the town script notes and then yeah just pretty much those two uh the final draft has a good podcast um called right on but that's more like for writers If you guys are interested, I know you, you got, do you write? I
SPEAKER_00:do. Yeah. I mean, you're in cam. So you definitely write. Yeah. I'm actually in a four Oh nine, just like intro to screenwriting. And we're like doing the 10 pager right now. Oh, it's 30 pager. Oh, it's just like a 30 page, like full screen. Oh, that's cool.
SPEAKER_01:But, yeah,
SPEAKER_00:if you're looking for a podcast, there's this one called Hollywood Gold. Oh, okay. And it's about more, like, on the producerial side of things, like how the substance or Nora came to be from, like, inception to finish distribution i like that i didn't even
SPEAKER_02:know about that
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_00:i'll listen to that that'll be interesting because it kind of combines like every element like it goes into distribution goes into writing goes into like how the script came to be and how it landed on like certain people's hands it's a really interesting i like that yeah
SPEAKER_03:okay cool hollywood gold no
SPEAKER_02:ever since i started this podcast i've been just like diving so much into the podcast world and it's been really fun because it is so different than just traditional like you know youtube videos it's like super long form it's like
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_02:it's like you really dive and know get to know a person
SPEAKER_03:yeah but definitely it is also the youtube world right now podcasts that's like the thing that's most played on youtube right now are podcasts so oh really yeah definitely put podcasts on youtube it's i mean the podcasts are doing better on youtube than spotify
SPEAKER_02:oh really? definitely our Spotify channel don't get that much that's interesting you
SPEAKER_03:definitely should do that
SPEAKER_02:and that's kind of why we had the three cameras set up because I was like I wanted to do a video format of the thing even though
SPEAKER_03:and that's why Spotify has video now because YouTube is doing so well in it so they implemented video into Spotify's infrastructure now
SPEAKER_00:Netflix wants in too on the whole podcast space
SPEAKER_03:yeah definitely just look at how these things are designed it's and you'll just see what they want
SPEAKER_02:that's so interesting even what you said about the reels and the youtube like like shorts and stuff like you do have to pay attention to what they want
SPEAKER_03:yeah i've just seen it change over i've been online for a long time
SPEAKER_02:so yeah you
SPEAKER_03:just notice things
SPEAKER_02:no it's also weird how sometimes like people say the algorithm you know prioritize the best videos but sometimes we be uploading these like reels or shorts and the most random ones like pops off and i'm like yeah you never
SPEAKER_03:know that's why you just keep just making stuff just make it and don't even look back like oh i wish that did better just do do the next one like no for sure just keep going
SPEAKER_02:do you have a system to organize like your youtube videos or like your ideas like do you have a spreadsheet like how does that work
SPEAKER_03:i want to get better at spreadsheets i actually don't know how to do spreadsheets at all and i want to become that person so bad um i just use notion and i just write out things in a list like it's nothing fancy just ideas and stuff yeah
SPEAKER_02:interesting you know I've been actually thinking no one knows this actually but I want to start making like a series on YouTube about like organizational stuff because I'm like obsessed with organizing organizing everything You look at my living room, you can't really tell, but I'm like... On my spreadsheets, I have every single zoo I've ever went to in my life.
SPEAKER_03:What?
SPEAKER_02:Every sport I play when I start playing. I don't know. That's
SPEAKER_03:cool, though.
SPEAKER_02:I'm like... That's why you are
SPEAKER_03:doing so much, bro, because you're organized.
SPEAKER_02:It helps with... And sometimes... I don't think I have OCD. There's no way. Sometimes it gets messy, but... I
SPEAKER_03:think I might have it. I don't know if I do, but probably to an extent.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I'm like, wait... It could be interesting to share how I organize things in my life. Yeah, for sure. Just a thought. Yeah. And because on the podcast, a lot of times I'm like, do you have a spreadsheet of everyone you interact with? Oh my God, I should
SPEAKER_03:totally do that. Have their email and everything. dude that's why you're always on top of stuff bro no like that's why you're like bro i got all these guests on my podcast i'm seeing everybody in my network coming on here like okay like yeah that's actually yeah that's
SPEAKER_02:it's it's something i do and if i don't i'm like aching you know it's like when i see a desktop that's like messy i'm like oh
SPEAKER_01:no don't look at mine don't look at mine
SPEAKER_00:no yeah honestly i feel like there could be a cool way to combine like film and organization
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:i don't know make it cinematic or or it's about or how to organize your video or whatever if you're creating content yeah into you know like how do you create but organize it well
SPEAKER_02:we have this friend um who just started a youtube channel recently and he blew up like third video in because of how good the storytelling like tom is oh yeah his editing style is like insane i'm like but he spends like a month or more on one video and
SPEAKER_03:like
SPEAKER_02:tens of hours i'm like i don't know if i could do that that's kind of crazy
SPEAKER_03:yeah i mean it it all just depends on like what you're trying to do with your channel like what your goals are and
SPEAKER_02:stuff no totally something we do on this podcast is we have the previous guest ask the current guest a question and the previous guest of our podcast asked you if there's a person in your life that if you were to write them into a character in your tv show who would it be
SPEAKER_03:probably my mom
SPEAKER_02:because okay
SPEAKER_03:i don't know about all like oh no okay well yes all i love my mom
SPEAKER_02:okay
SPEAKER_03:okay um but we have a very mixed relationship just because and i think my thesis is going to be on this just about my experience as a child actor in hollywood nothing bad which right child acting is mostly associated with bad things here but um in terms of like how child actors have to go through this process with their parents and the bonds that are created through heartbreak, rejection, victories, just like all of it. at a young age and like my mom and I have shared many moments in the car driving to auditions she's helped me prep them like I have memories of like us singing in the car like going to like audition for like some musical like just like moments like that but also like we butt heads so many times like there's so many good things and also like I was like 13 and super annoying and you know like sassy 13 year old and yeah we were also like very similar so I think she is going to be like the main character and something I'm writing for my thesis. So definitely she's going to be my inspiration.
SPEAKER_02:That's awesome. And do you feel like you model a lot of your business ethics or not ethics, like drive and ambition after her?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I see a lot of myself in her.
SPEAKER_02:That's awesome. And I feel like it is true. Like a lot of most of our parents and families are the thing that made who we are today. And I think, you know, I'm grateful for that, at least for me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_02:That's awesome. And what is next for you?
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. I got to check my to-do list. Tomorrow I'm going to tour apartments. So just filming that. Next week events. And then I just got an email from Adobe. So I have to edit an ad I filmed for them yesterday. So I'm just like daily basis. But what's next? Lunch. That's what's next. Awesome. That's
SPEAKER_02:awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks so much. It's been great.