Legacy In Focus: Black History, Community, And Love

The calendar says February, but we’re after something that lasts longer than a month. We open with a candid look at what it really takes for Black-owned businesses to endure: not just pride and patronage, but grants, lines of credit, and practical support that turns survival into scale. From Atlanta’s rich landscape of legacy to memories of North Florida’s sparse storefronts, we map the hard choices families face—do you keep the shop with your grandfather’s name or accept the buyout that finally clears the books?

Education sits at the heart of legacy. We talk about failing African American Studies not from disinterest, but from years of being under-taught—and how that shock becomes a call to self-education. Beyond the usual February roll call, we reach for deeper roots: Marcus Garvey, Nile histories, and the local archives hiding in high school hallways. Atlanta’s Booker T. Washington High School gets its flowers for a century of impact, alongside trailblazers like Patrice M. Perkins-Hooker, the first African American to lead the State Bar of Georgia, and a grandmother who broke ground as a pioneering welder. These aren’t footnotes; they’re a roadmap.

We also wrestle with the double-edged sword of corporate acknowledgment. A shout-out is better than silence, but we ask for receipts—year-round investment, supplier diversity with teeth, and funded platforms for creators and communities. Legacy becomes a relay when first-generation entrepreneurs and graduates share playbooks, open doors, and protect spaces from displacement. For us, love of culture meets the logistics of staying: bookkeeping, legal shields, co-ops, and patient capital.

If you’re building something for your family or your block, this conversation brings energy and practical clarity. Come for the stories, stay for the strategy, and leave with a list of next steps that don’t end on March 1. If this resonated, subscribe, share with someone building their own first, and leave a review to help more listeners find the show.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Welcome to another episode of Pops and Sun Conversations. It is your favorite silver fox, Rob Malloy.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

And it is Sun here, Javen, aka Check Three Times.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Ta-dao. Welcome to uh the Black History Month, the month of Love and all that other good stuff. So how you feeling, Jay?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I feel good. I feel good. How you feeling, Pops?

Setting The Stage For February

SPEAKER_00 1:47

I feel good. You know, I'm excited about you know this month, mainly because, you know, I like to talk about the love space. Um, but also I like to talk about you know, Black History Month. You know, there's just so much going on uh here in the city, but mainly, you know, I like to learn about you know new discoveries that I feel like I should have known about when I was younger. But I promise you, every year, every year, especially around this season, I learned so much about black history. You know, some of it is uh, you know, some trauma. Let's just be honest with you. And um, then other other stuff is like, man, I can't believe that you know this was invented, you know, by our ancestors or you know, yeah, uh just the creativity of uh you know us as a culture. Because we've been doing some things for a long time, Jay.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, that's a fact. We've we've been doing stuff for a long time. Whether or not we got credit for it, you know, that's that's the idea. But yeah, we definitely have made some huge major contributions to this country.

Atlanta’s Contrast And Ownership

SPEAKER_00 3:02

You know, Jay, uh living here in Atlanta, so I've been here in Atlanta since, you know, as juvenile say the 1999 and 2000, right? So that's kind of when I got here, um, fresh out the Air Force. And I one thing that caught my eye about Atlanta was so many beautiful people of color, you know, uh brown, black, you know, beige, uh, cream, you know, so just so many beautiful people. And you know, growing up in in Florida, in North Florida, and I have to be very specific, growing up in North Florida is very, very different. Um, the culture is different, uh, just the the people, uh, you know, just the ownership, to be honest with you, is what is so different. So being here in Atlanta for so long, you know, you you think about uh when you go through the cities, right? Any place that you live, any place that you visit, you go through the cities, and it seems like the cities that have the predominantly black businesses are run down. Does that make sense, Jay? It's run down, and you're like, man, okay, I'm looking at all of these um branded, cultured establishments. And you know, uh it some would consider it mom and pop's, you know, stores uh or um you know facilities because it it would give you it would give you that culture, man. It'd be like uh, you know, uh Ray Turner's laundromat, you know, just to come up with a name, right? Yeah. Or, you know, it it would be like uh, you know, uh uh Auntie, uh Auntie D's chicken and waffles, or you know, uh Mrs. Mrs. Mayberry's uh wash and fold, you know, so you would know that these aren't necessarily the larger commercialized uh you know type brands and and uh companies, but it gave you a sense of pride to know that our folks was owners, yeah what I mean. Um and they weren't you know sellouts or they wasn't you know bought out or whatever the case is, but it leads me to believe that the support wasn't there, Jay. And and I want to uh I want to address that real quick as we jump into this. Uh when I say support, I'm not talking about you know uh uh the the black dollar circulating as so much. What I'm talking about is actual grants, um, actual funding for these businesses, because you got to think about it. If if you're gonna call your establishment, you know, by your your family name or your or your heirs, then I think a high percentage is you using your own money, you use the the the generation, generational funds to keep that, you know, historical legacy um up and running. So so how do you how do you feel about that, Jack? I I want you to really talk about even you know growing up, you know, what were some of the things that you saw that wasn't representing of what you felt like it should, and what was some of the represent representation that you did see growing up?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, so yes it's definitely a stark contrast uh being here in Atlanta, but you know, where I grew up in uh Pensacola, there wasn't there wasn't a lot, a lot of of representation. Like I was listening as you were talking about, you know, the Mayberry's washing fold and things like that. And I'm I'm flipping back in my mind, really trying to remember, you know, me growing up, if I really saw those, those type of, you know, storefronts or or businesses. And to be honest, I didn't see a lot of, you know, but you know, I I was growing up during the 90s. I don't know if if by that time, you know, it was kind of phasing out and they were getting bought out and stuff like that. But I didn't really see a lot of uh black-owned stores or businesses uh where I was growing up. I mean, so when I the most I say is like barbershops were really big. Of course, you know, black folks got the barbershop. So there was, you know, Mr. Daryl's barbershop, which is where I was going get my hair cut. But I mean, other than that, you know, that that that was really, yeah, that was that was as much as I saw um growing up. So yeah, when you talk about how there's no support, um, you know, that I think that's super important because I mean, businesses, you know, they they need money, they need the funding in order to, you know, keep the shop open and continue growing.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Right.

Support, Funding, And Hard Choices

SPEAKER_01 8:15

And so why why would somebody that that has put all this this money into their business, they got their name on it, it's family, it's legacy, of course they want to be able to keep it open, of course they want to be able to keep it running. But if somebody is is waving that check in front of them saying, you know, sell your business here, you know, what what what options do they have? You know, at the end of the day, you you still have to be able to support yourself. And if your business ain't, you know, you're not getting the support, and you know what I mean? Like it's it's just a tough decision to make. And I can see a lot of, you know, I can just envision it, you know, in my head, a lot of people really struggling with that, with that ultimatum of, you know, I don't want to give up this family business. It's our legacy. My granddad built this or my dad built this, but what am I gonna do? We struggling. You know what I mean? Yeah, so it's true.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Man, hey, listen, man, you you just dropped some serious uh conversation on that. So I'm glad that you mentioned that because you have to have, you know, you you have to look at where things are, where things could be, and uh almost you can't really look at where things were because it's it's a new day, right? And so there's different pressures now. Uh there's you have to look at the resources that were given you, the the knowledge that was given you, and was it really opportunity to scale your business versus survive the business? Right? So now you have to make some serious decisions, like, yeah, if I do get a uh a check, or they are offering me a check for you know one million dollars to you know sell my barbershop, to to sell my dry cleaners, even to sell my restaurant. I've been in the hole for decades. And so it has caused you know some heartache and stress, you know, for my family, myself. I gotta look at that and uh look at the bigger picture. And so now, you know, you start bargaining, you start uh bargaining with yourself and be like, so did granddaddy Cleophys really want me to struggle like this, or is this an opportunity to change the trajectory of legacy? Yeah, and so man, just that conversation is so tough. And I and I and I'm glad that, you know, um, you know, speaking with you know the Malloy family, just thinking about us, you know, uh we never had any family businesses that you know we inherited. You know, um fortunately for us, you know, the work ethic was was inherited. Uh the support, you know, morally, um, but you know, when it comes down to it, man, you know, um a lot of first generational stuff, you know, first generational business owners, first generational entrepreneurs, and even to some extent, first generational, you know, uh graduates or or those that you know picked up a specific skill, um, you know, or trade. And we have to look at that type of thing and not really uh just put it in a box to where, okay, you're not an attorney, you're not a medical doctor, you're not you know, in law enforcement, that type of thing. Man, these things, just like this we're talking about, uh, the only family that that um has uh a podcast and has you know branded the family dynamic. We we're the first. Yeah. Right, and that's on all sides, even on you know, both my parents' side, you know, your grandparents' side, even trickling down to my cousins and stuff like that. Nobody has done this stuff. And so when we start looking at you know, uh social media, the admiration, the encouragement, and things like that, you know, it's really, really great, but we don't want to be the only ones to be doing this. You know, we we don't we don't mind being the pioneers, but we do not want to be solo when it comes to uh you know branding the family, uh building that legacy, you know, just creating other opportunities, you know, for the the Kairos and Kingsleys and uh Parkers, you know. So that that's that's the that's the ultimate goal is to build something that will literally change the uh uh the outcome when it comes to legacy for uh for our generations.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah, that's a word right there. I mean that's that's that's that's really what it's all about. That's really what it's all about, building that legacy for the next generation.

First-Gen Paths And Family Legacy

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah. Yeah, so look, let's uh let's kind of uh pivot a little bit uh because I want to get into what February looks like. Like we're a couple of days in. Yep. And um, you know, so when you think about February, Jay, what what is the first couple of things or what's the first couple of phrases that comes to mind when when you see this month coming?

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah. So the first thing that comes to mind for me definitely is Happy Black History Month. Okay. Probably the first uh post that I saw when I when I got on uh you know on social media, a bunch of um, you know, happy black history months. I didn't get no text messages that said that, but I saw a lot of posts of people putting that up.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Uh yeah, February definitely, and then of course, you know, you you gotta think about Valentine's Day too. But we ain't gonna talk about Valentine's Day right now. But you know, that's in that too. But February is it's kind of one of those, you know, it's one of those busy months. Yeah, it's always a lot going on.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot going on, you know. Um, but but it it's it's been commercialized. I'm gonna just be straight up because you know, that's what the podcast is about, pops and son conversations. So this is this is my conversation with my son right now. Black History Month has been uh commercialized, um, has been streamlined to where you know other outlets that don't typically support our culture get involved. Like you start seeing all these different uh channels, all these different platforms, you know, talking about you know black history and acknowledging so much, and it's like they stop on March 1st and they literally start February the 1st. Start and stop. It's a hard start, and it's a hard stop.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

I agree, I agree with you, but I do I I I just have one question. Okay, because I wondered this. So I guess it's kind of like a pick your poison type of thing, because it's like, do we do we want them to say silent and not say anything or acknowledge, like, do we just want everybody to be quiet about Black History Month, or is it okay for these businesses? And I know it's commercialized, like I get that. But, you know, it's kind of like it's a double-edged sword because, you know, dude we we can we can get upset when nobody says anything about Black History Month or says anything about, you know, uh the ancestors or the leaders or the inventions and all these different things. Yeah, but then on the other side, it's like, oh, y'all just y'all just capitalizing off of it too. So it's it's kind of a hard, it's like, how do you tell when it's genuine? Or how do we decipher what is and what's not real from these, you know, these companies or whatever. Because who knows, some of them might mean well. Like some of these CEOs may want to actually put it forward and be like, hey, it's February. So I don't know, it's just it's just something I always thought about.

Black History Month And Commercialization

SPEAKER_00 16:53

That's a good point. I like that. That's a good point. You know, um, I think that you know, acknowledgement is cool. Um, but I also think that we have to really understand what it means to fully support our own communities and taking away all of the uh you know the holidays and things like that, ultimately our message is to continue to build our community. So I I wouldn't trip. Like, you know, if if there's a company out there that doesn't typically support um you know, black or African-American or people of color podcast, and you want to do that, then by all means, uh www hops and sung conversations.com, right? Info at if you if you will. So no, I I I do think that you know that that is uh cool to acknowledge. Um, I just really think that it's it's so important that we really implement what we're doing when it comes to the month of February in Black history, um, to just continue to learn, continue to you know, share it, even if it is for that month. Because uh because again, it trickles down to our kids, right? And so we want our kids to be informed more than anything. It doesn't matter what month it is, but we want our children, uh, we want our generations to come to be informed. So yeah, I I'm kind of feeling and digging what you're saying. Um, with that, it could be a double-edged sword. Um, but at the same time, we we still have to be diligent, consistent, um, and intentional, you know, with our method um and our uh acknowledgement and everything that we're doing for our endless.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

And don't get me wrong though, like one month is not enough. Like, black, you know, black history should be celebrated year-round. Like, there's no way that we should be compartmentalized until you know what I'm saying, just February. But yeah, you know, it's like if we got February, like let's go, you know, like let's go full throttle with it. Right, you know, yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Why not? I believe in that. I believe in that. So look, before we go, I do want to do something a little fun. Um, and but I do also want to mention this. This is what I want to make sure that we did, that we did. So growing up in North Florida, yeah, right, growing up in North Florida, the the high school that I went to was um not cool. It was not cool, man. Look, I'm not gonna put the school out there like that, but those of you that know me and uh know about the west side of Jacksonville, you know that there is a uh specific school that was named after one of the founders of the KKK.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Named after one of, I don't know what they call themselves, Grand Wid. I don't know what they call them, right? But but it was definitely one of the founders. And you know, uh my siblings went to that school, graduated from that school. I went to the school, I wound up graduating from that school. Now I went to I tried to get I tried to get out of the school. Uh I went to a magnet school that was uh you know about 30 minutes outside of of the city, and I got accepted, I was up in there, and and it's crazy, Jay, because this was the first school ever that I've ever attended to that had a um a course or class which was African American Studies.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Oh, that's fire, right?

Education Gaps And Self-Learning

SPEAKER_00 20:35

African American studies. So I'm I'm like, yo, this is where I need to be at. This is my calling. I ain't going nowhere. But man, I was so I don't even know how to say I was so institutionalized by the by the white school that I was going to, man, that I literally failed African American studies, man. Wow, that's how far I was removed. Because, you know, some stuff, like some stuff you just know. Like we start hearing about, you know, the the first president and and certain presidents and and uh the uh um you know emancipation proclamation, you know, all the stuff that was fed to you. But then when you start really digging into the culture and in people like Marcus Garvey that made a huge statement on the world on behalf of of uh people of color, you know, especially men. Uh and uh it was just it was overwhelming, you know, because there's certain things that you've just been fed as a as uh in elementary school and preschool that you just know, so it's not that hard. You can learn some additional things, but when I tell you they were digging in deep to the African American studies all the way back to to to the Egyptians, man, I was lost. I'm like, what Egyptian, what are you talking? What what is that eye doing up there at the top of the corner? Like I thought that was the dollar bill. I I felt man, um, I really I really felt some type of way. Not only did I fail the class, but um, you know, it it just the the whole experiment, I didn't feel supported, you know. So I wind up going back to the old school, I wind up going back to you know my comfort zone and wind up graduating from that school, man. But uh just to just to know that there is a a true system out there that understands the power uh of uh of African American of people of color uh when it comes to building this United States, um, and the part that we played uh was pretty amazing. And uh that's something I kind of gotta follow up. Did did did your school did your school do African American studies, Jay?

SPEAKER_01 23:07

No, no, I'm I'm almost 100% sure we did not have that. Um but I was gonna say, I mean, that's also just a testament to how skewed just like you know, education, you know, here is that you went there and you weren't, you didn't feel equipped or like you knew any of that because I mean it's not it's just not prevalent. It's just not, you know, the the black history is just not being taught um on the level that it should be. Like you probably would never hear, even during Black Black History Month, I don't remember hearing uh Marcus Garvey's name mentioned. You know, you always get the same people MLK, Harriet Tubman. Yeah, you know, you might get Malcolm X, you know, if they're trying to be edgy, but it's like You're not, you're not, they're not gonna really go into the roots or you know, for back fur further back and try to, you know, teach that that history. Um yeah, it's something we gotta do. Like you said, we gotta go back and and and kind of learn that stuff ourselves.

Atlanta Figures And Community Schools

SPEAKER_00 24:10

We do. So look, um, I want to talk about you know, maybe uh two or three um historic um black or people of color um that I that I think that that people should know um you know on our podcast. But before we do that, I also want to say this real quick, because uh man, this is just it's it's such a uh eye-opener. So when I moved here uh over 20 years ago, learning so much here, obviously you have you know Josephie Lowry, um Ralph David, Abernathy, you know, these are names that I've never heard of, let alone known what impact they've made. And like you mentioned, of course, the Martin Luther King Jr., um, you know, Jesse Jackson, if you will, and uh, but but those that that are uh uh huge this has been a huge staple here in Atlanta because Atlanta has a lot of rich history um in in uh you know people of color. Uh and and so I want to mention one school before we uh talk about you know a few uh names that you may have have not heard uh that is definitely black history. So this school that I've uh I've worked with before, or one of the schools I've worked with before, um the Booker T Washington High School, the Booker T, and I say that emphatically because the alum is is very particular and intentional of how you represent when you talk about the school. So the Booker T Washington High School has literally been in existence for over a hundred years in the community, and they're smack dab in what's now the hood. So the thing about it is obviously it wasn't always the hood, Jay. Right? It was a more upscale, uh prestigious neighborhood. Now, again, when we start talking about the support, right? When we start talking about the support, then you know that's when I think that you know you have to take uh take a closer look. But that school uh is one of the most amazing schools. I've never seen anything like it. Uh the the high school that is, um, and and that's like something that I wish I was a part of because the alum is is uh uh so aware of history and foundation and and and camaraderie, though, and and community. Like those are the things that uh are huge staples when it comes to them. And so I just want to give them a big shout out. Um, the Booker Ch Washington Um high school, pretty amazing. Um and just met so many, so many cool people and just being a part of that community uh and serving uh the children there and serving uh the community there. So with all that being said, look, we have a few minutes and we want to drop a few um important names that you guys uh that we want you guys to to know. And so this is what we consider um very, very VIPs um in black history. And so, Jay, I'll start it out uh because again, this is legacy. Um my mother's mother, uh, Mrs. Uh Lashy uh Mangum. Um she was uh from uh the Wake County, North Carolina. Um she moved there from Providence, Rhode Island. That's where I was born. That's where uh my siblings was born, and uh mom was born, and uh she you know migrated with uh with my granddad down there to uh North Carolina. Um so she was the very first, very first uh woman that worked uh in welding. And when I say welding, I'm talking about you know, you you you dropped a metal mask down and sparks flying. Yeah. Right? So uh she uh you know was the very first uh welder. Uh man, and you know, she was honored in so many places that uh it was it was pretty amazing. And so, you know, big shout out to uh my grandmother, uh my true grandmother uh from Providence, Rhode Island. Uh man, uh Grandma Lashie, I miss you. Uh you you're not forgotten. Uh the legacy runs through us all. But yeah, man, so she was acknowledged um as the first woman uh welder. And um, man, you know, that's just uh it's been pretty powerful. And it really inspires me all the time when I start thinking about doing different things and not being afraid to um be great and be the best version of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

I that's that's um, you know, it's always it's always cool when you when you find out like black history is just so it's just so amazing. Like we we have so many, you know, first and people that have you know have done so many great things. Um I'm looking at, let me see, so yeah, let's get it more important.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah, yeah, let's get it more important.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Yeah, Patrice M. Perkins Hooker was the first African American female and African American in general to serve as president of the state bar of Georgia.

unknown 30:06

Wow.

Honoring VIPs And Firsts

SPEAKER_00 30:11

That's pretty incredible, man. Um, and like I said, here in Georgia's, specifically in Atlanta, there is so much rich history um that that we can discuss. Um, I think next episode we will talk about the uh the Russell Center, uh, which is historical. So I just want to make sure I give you know accurate information um on you know these legends, man. But so much to be proud of, Jay. You know, even as we continue to to kind of navigate through this life and and be the first generations and a lot of our families and and different communities, man, there's just so much pride that we have to look at. Obviously, there's a lot of negativity going on, there's a lot of uh unnecessary roughness, if you will, but we have so much to be um proud of and and so much to to truly love about us as a community, us and our culture. And I think that when we talk about you know the black history, that should just reinforce and encourage us to keep striving.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Oh yeah. You know, I love us, I love our people. You know, it's it's no, you know, you always see black people like, I love, I love being black. Like, you know, we just have so much, so much pride, man, just in the culture, and and just you know, even with everything that we've been through and all of the the propaganda that's thrown in our face, like we we always find a way to be appreciative of our of our position and where we going. Like we always we always pull through too.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

The the most resilient um group of people or culture um in the world, and no disrespect to the to the Jewish community.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Oh don't don't get us canceled.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Don't get used to but what I will tell you is when when you start talking about some type of uh um restoration or some type of um reparation, you know, you you have to start you have to start looking at you know our community and and what we've actually received as far as opportunities and things like that. But I do in closing, I do feel like we are using more of our resources. I do feel like we're doing more collaborations, and I do feel like we have a more sense of pride and understanding of how important it is to keep moving forward because we can always talk about what we've been lacking, but if we're doing that, then we can't focus on what we need to continue to do to build and continue to create that that legacy that we so deserve. So, with all that being said, look, we'll we'll have to get to the love part, man, next episode. So obviously, we're gonna have to keep going, man. I don't know if we're gonna do a part two, three, four. Who knows, man? But uh definitely Black History Month um is incredible and we're deep in it. Um, Jay, as we close out, I think you have an event coming up here um this weekend.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Oh, yeah. Yeah, this weekend I'll be performing um at the Elite Gardener Fair here in Atlanta. It's gonna be a beautiful, beautiful night, man. I I'm I'm so excited and yeah, really grateful for this opportunity. You know, y'all been listening. Yeah, I'm sure y'all been listening uh long enough to know that poetry has been my passion for quite some time, and I've been really um, you know, just blessed to have so many chances to share my gift with the audience. So yeah, I'm really happy and excited about that. It's gonna be a magical night.

Pride, Resilience, And Forward Motion

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Yeah, we'll look forward to that. Um, of course, uh you guys can um you can find the information on social media. Of course, you can see the pops the sun conversations, all our platforms, uh, and you can check it out there if you want to get some information and slide through. Uh, I will be in Macon. I will be in Macon, uh, which is another historical um city that you know we'll get a chance to talk about a little bit later. But yeah, so I'll be at you know, Serenities Entertainment Complex, uh doing a little singles networking speed dating. So uh all you grown folks out here, come on out. You'll see that on all the platforms as well. And uh we just look forward to a powerful weekend, you know, and it's it's one of those uh historical moments where we have two different events that we're able to do at the same time. So Jay is going to be representing at the Elite Garden event, and I'll be at the uh Ready for Love event in Macon, Georgia. So, man, that's that's powerful within itself, Jay.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Hey, black history.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Hey, look, y'all, we appreciate y'all. Make sure that you check out all the episodes. If you if you miss some, go back and listen to them, right? But we'll see you guys next episode. And as always, it is your favorite silver fox Rob Malloy. Hey, Pops is hunt conversation. We'll see you guys next time. Peace. Peace.