From Survival To Choice: How Relationships Evolved And What Works Now

What if the problem isn’t dating itself, but how we choose? We sit down as father and son to trace the arc from survival-era marriages to the swipe economy, and we get honest about why “more options” often leads to less fulfillment. Our starting point is legacy: older generations built families around protection, purpose, and reputation. That clarity made commitment simpler, not easier. Today, with social media amplifying aesthetics and status, many of us overvalue the look of love and undervalue character, conflict skills, and the ability to weather seasons together.

We contrast old school roles with modern expectations and show why neither blueprint works without a shared mission. Some partners want a traditional split; others want hybrid or fully fluid roles. The key is explicit agreement. We talk about the illusion of infinite choice, how easy exits weaken perseverance, and why rapid partner cycling often leaves you empty. If time is your most precious asset, then standards are your security policy. We break down how to set them, protect them, and stop mistaking chemistry for compatibility.

Midway, we dig into dating in your 30s as a clarity phase: crystallize your worldview on money, love, leadership, and family. Don’t contort to fit someone who will later resent the shape you took. Compromise can build connection, but misalignment turns that bond into a ticking clock. We share examples of couples with staying power—public figures and family elders—to show what endurance looks like in the real world. We also give respect to life partnerships that thrive without paperwork, proving that loyalty and growth are a practice, not a certificate.

If you’re tired of chasing types that don’t love you back, this conversation offers a reset: choose for character, align on mission, and build for seasons, not trends. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a standards check, and leave a review with your top non‑negotiable—we’ll feature our favorites next time.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Welcome back to another episode of Pops and Sun Conversations. And as always, it is your favorite show, Fox Rob Malloy. And it is Sun Check Three Times. And we here finishing up uh the Love Month, the Black History Month, all of those things. Jay, how you feeling? Because last episode you was tired, man. Uh, you had some breakfast this time, and what's going on?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah, I'm energized. I'm good this time. I didn't got my energy back. We good.

Setting The Stage: Love Month

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Okay. All right, I'm feeling pretty good. My darn self. So we're gonna jump right in because we have a lot to cover um in a short month. You like that? So we're gonna we're gonna get right into it. Um, again, this is uh February, uh, the last Friday of February. And uh I think we should focus a little bit, you know, because we've been getting the inboxes and the DMs and folks been commenting on our social media platforms, and they want us to talk a little bit more about relationships and love and things like and things like that, because obviously I'm I'm 50, right? Not F50, but I'm 50, I'm my own 50. And um, you know, uh I've been married before, obviously, and uh uh where I'm at is is a different stage in life. And then you have you know you, you know, we have son here that is uh you know uh just cracking 30s and you know has uh you know some experience and some really interesting perspectives. So man, we just gonna jump right into this thing, Jay. So uh where do you want to start?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Where do I wanna start? Hmm. It is love months. Let's start with um so we're doing relationships. Pops, let's talk about how relationships have changed. How they change, like, you know, we got the dynamic here, old school versus new school. So let's talk about that. Like, how was it back in the day?

Old School Relationships And Survival

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Yeah, so you know, it depends on how how far back we want to go, you know, because uh anytime uh I talk about old school or more traditional relationships, man, I have to go beyond my generation and uh maybe even you know further back to the the baby boomers or or the silent generation because that's a that's a whole nother situation. But you know, I feel like people got married and got into relationships, man, for survival back then. It's like uh, you know, we're stronger together, you know, we're gonna we're gonna raise this family, we're going to uh you know create legacies so the generation can continue to get better, make improvements in the lifestyle, and uh and and truly put something together that has a strong foundation and will outlast us as we uh we move on in life. And so, you know, I think that's why you know there were so many old school uh marriages where they had 10 kids and 15 kids, like some folks had like 20, 20, 25 kids back then. I mean, you know that they wasn't strapping up. That's a lot, right? And it was okay because they understood, you know, it they un they understood, but also Jay, I think that it was also a level of connection, like that's how they comfort each other, like man. You you gotta think about it, man. It wasn't no uh uh taking road trips and and and flying to different countries and things like back in the day, man. You you was on your you was on your land, hopefully, and you had to protect it, man. Like how uh uh uh great grand-granddaddy Frank and great grandma uh uh lily may you can't take a week off. You can't you can't go out of town for a week. What would you come back to? Right. I mean, it is literally survival, right? And uh it it wasn't no pit bulls that you can tie up back then, man. I don't even know if they really had access to uh to those type of canines, man. When you think about that, Jay. Right, probably not wasn't no rock wallers in in front of the plantations for you, man.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Nah, nah. Yeah, so that's definitely a completely different vibe than what we got going on today, yo.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Completely wow, yeah. Just having the rights, you know, just just having those rights, having those liberties back then. Uh it was definitely survival, but at the same time, man, you you locked in on your partner, right? So it it wasn't no, okay, uh uh he ain't 6'1, chiseled at 215 and and and made six figures. Like it wasn't no decision making like that back then. Do you even really think that the women understand the uh the the process back then of how uh your mate was chosen?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

I don't think so. I I know that they don't understand that um you know the options weren't as as vast as they think they are today. I know that's for sure.

Social Media, Options, And Emptiness

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Right. It's amazing and and to the point of the uh the the quality of uh the women back then. Look, these women right here, man, they they did not run from uh taking care of the house. You know, they they wasn't quote unquote career driven back then. Again, it was survival. So, you know, these women they understood, hey, we hey, we we gonna get these kids, right? Because we're gonna build our legacy, and and I'm going to teach the children certain things in the household. So when you start talking about um grooming, properly grooming, in my opinion, of making sure that uh the young ladies understand you the you're gonna you're gonna need to take care of the household, um, you're gonna need to handle these things, you're gonna need to be supportive of your hardworking man, and and you know, you guys are gonna have to be on one accord the whole way through because you're gonna be tested. You're gonna be tested, and it's gonna be on a high level. So uh, man, you know, old school is is something different, Jay. But I want you I want you to talk a little bit more about you know what people consider new school and and the the contrast of expectations and even gender roles, Jay.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Oh man, it's so uh you know, it's so convoluted right now at this point. I think that uh if you're in my generation or you're a little bit younger, you kind of fall into a few different categories. Like it's a lot of people that want to bring old traditions back. They want to, they want to um assume that position. Like, you know, I'm the male, I you know, this is my role, you are the woman, this is your role. But then you have some resistance because you have um, you know, other people that say, no, you know, I'll play this, like I can be the breadwinner, I could do this, I don't need your money, I just need your type of thing. So you see a lot of that. You see a lot of women saying, I don't really need a man for anything other than just um, you know, partnership. I got my own money, I can provide for myself, this, that, and the third. So they don't see the value in a man as far as provision, but just as like a as a counterpart, so much as just like been, you know, it's like a partnership, like they say. Yeah. So that's been prevalent a lot. And I say you fall into a few different categories, and then you get you also got a third category where it's like, you know, people are just not, they they're so overstimulated by all these different ideologies and not really knowing, you know, what's right or what's wrong. Like people just staying single, like people just not dating, not trying to, you know. I saw a study the other day that the generation beneath me is having their dating far less, they're having sex far less, they're not as social, and it's because of this almost like this illusion of choice. So when you talk about the old school, you talk about um, you know, how you said like the you know, the type of man you can expect, or or that you would date, you know, uh, that you would see.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Today, with social media and things like that, you know, people think that they have all of these different types of options when in reality, uh-oh, they don't really have as many options as they think. So they spend a lot less time, like like you said, back then you lock in on your like this is uh, this me, this you, we're gonna have some kids, we're gonna get married, we're gonna do our thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

In today's age of dating, you don't have to, you don't have to lock in to anything because your next partner could be just a swipe away, yeah. Your next partner could be just a DM away or a light away, you know what I mean? So there's this there's this fleeting um uh uh illusion that um you know you could always have somebody. Yeah, but you trick, I mean the the trick to that is that yeah, you could have somebody, but what is that really, what is that really worth? You know what I'm saying? As time goes on, now you've been through 10 different partners in a year and you feel empty. You feel empty because you couldn't, you know. I know I'm kind of going off right now, but this is really what's going on right now. Like, yeah, in the dating world, this is what's happening. People feel like, you know, they could kick somebody to the curb, they don't want to work anything out because they could just find the next person tomorrow. You know what I mean? That's a big impact on social media and why relationships, a lot of relationships fail. Because, you know, truth be told, that old school mindset, the old school way of thinking, yeah, what you need to succeed in in today's age. Now, now, of course, you got trade-offs here and there. Yeah, I think the most important takeaway from relationships back in the day is that you really settled with your one person and you then try to um sabotage your relationship to to get to the next person. Like that old, that old uh saying the grass is not always greener, is so so true. And people really need to look at that saying and think about it when they in these relationships, thinking about oh, I'm just getting on Tinder, I can have another you by tomorrow. Like, and nah, man, it doesn't work like that.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

You that's powerful. Look, man, don't drop your mic because we still gotta finish the episodes.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Pick the mic back. Hey, look, I got I got some. I'm still going. I got some for him. I like this topic. I like this topic.

Standards, Alignment, And Mismatch

Gender Roles Then And Now

SPEAKER_00 14:13

This is this is a topic that is so powerful, and uh, I'm glad we got a little a little bit more time to to talk about it. Now we'll we'll get into you know stuff like gender roles, I think, and uh we could talk about you know like traditional marriage versus life partnership because that's gonna spark a whole nother uh aspect, but just kind of piggybacking off what you said, you know, being you know, I'm I'm a a Gen X, and so I'm kind of in between. I watched what you know my parents did, and I watched what you know those uh my aunts and uncles. We're talking about people that have been together, whether married or not, but have been together um for over 50 and 60 years, and so when you have that kind of stay power, even through the ups and downs, because let's be clear, nobody has a perfect relationship, but nobody has a perfect past, right? So so nobody you're not gonna be able to find that. Um, folks taking stuff to the grave, okay? Let's just be let's just be 100, right? But the bigger picture is if we do not stay together, if we do not figure it out, what will our generations look like? What what is the the impact of our generations going to actually look like? And that's something that we have to be very cognizant about, and it's it's really that real. It's really that real. So how are we going to to navigate that is gonna be important? Also, you know, are you are you really preparing yourself? And that's something that I just want to talk briefly about as as we uh as we move on. Things were very different, Jay, when it came to folks getting together. And I you know, I've talked about this before, and I also think that it's very necessary. Back in the day, they looked at the stock you came from. Yeah, meaning anybody just couldn't get together, right? So, so the the stock, uh you know, uh what your family is about is going to make a difference on how folks are paired up. Now, now today, you know, uh a bad boy can get with you know uh a woman of of certain credentials, like it's nothing, and and and there's a lot of mismatch going on, but back then people really oversaw what things would look like, so now you get to use you know the knowledge, the history, the experience, and they would pick someone who they felt like long term was a better fit. So there the values of the family, the the things that were uh you know important in terms of what really matters, and so a lot of times, man, that wasn't necessarily okay, you know, she's a size five, she's a size six, uh, he's six three, two fifteen, uh, he was athletic, she was a cheerleader, that type of thing. It was more so on how they were they were raised and and the the family values and morals and and even that the work ethic. These type of things took place when it came to you know folks linking up, Jay. So that's kind of the old school thing I just wanted to add into that that uh I think makes a difference now because we're seeing such a mismatch in folks, and and you know, I'm I'm gonna always you know put the women out there and hold them accountable, but a lot of women are experimenting now, if that makes sense, Jay. They're experimenting. So what's happening sometimes is they go through the the teens and they go through you know adolescence and they go through being a young woman and they have this type, right? They want a guy that looks good, they want a guy that you know maybe every woman wants, and they want to say, hey, I snatched them up, and and they have all of the all of this checklist, but what they're not uh listing or looking at is his moral compass, is his character, his integrity, his uh uh conflict resolution skills. And so what's happening then is they don't went through a couple of them. And so now they're like, well, I my type hasn't been working out for me. And now they kind of change the the credentialing of the new mate. And so now they're like, well, you know what? He don't he don't have to be 6'3 and and athletic and stuff, you know. As long as he loves me properly, he takes care of me, he see, he sees me, and uh, you know, he's a solid provider and protector. But by then, man, they didn't have four kids in in four marriages. Jay, that's my mathematics, man. As a 50-year-old, is is what I've seen. Is that everyone? Of course not. But at the same time, now you got to think about people that are connecting and why they don't want the marriage versus maybe more of a of a uh life partnership.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Oh, I see what you're saying. See what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

So so you're in essence, you're getting with people um a little later on in life that have had the children already, that have had the the uh white picket fence and the house, and you know, a cat and a dog, and and all that stuff, and so but they're one and the same demand as if you can offer a clean slate. Now, I I know I don't I went off, but but I but let me let me let me cook, right? Let me finish cooking, right? And so what you have to understand now is the dynamic is different, the the uh gender role requests are different, you know. Men aren't requiring a child now or or child provisions or or being you know an awesome mother because they've been there and done that, Jay. So when she says I can cook, clean, never smell like onion rings, and you know, I'ma take care of this and that, that's not what he's looking for now, right? He's not necessarily looking for the domesticated uh uh a woman. Maybe you now he wants to travel, but now he wants to you know build businesses and build legacy, and he might not want to be at the house. Meanwhile, she wants a big house, she wants cats and dogs, and she, you know, uh different things going on, and so um it's it's uh it's a lot of mismatch and desires. And so, Jay, man, you know, as we as we get through this thing, man, I want you to even talk about how you think that gender roles have uh have changed, especially in you know, in in your generation, because as you said, you know, people's interactions are different because they don't necessarily want the same, and they want bits and pieces of the old tradition, but then they they they want to a hybrid of the new tradition.

Dating With Clarity In Your 30s

Compromise Vs. Compatibility

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Right. Yeah, so that's that's what I'm saying, man. It's it's it's it's so confusing. It's it's it's confusing a lot of people. I personally think that, you know, at the end of the day, you every relationship, you're when you're dating, you just gotta make sure that what you want, yeah, you find in that person. And don't don't compromise. You know, I've I've I've understood as as I'm growing into my 30s, right? And I actually wrote about this recently, I feel like this year is the year that um or the or this this era, I should say, is the era that you crystallize and solidify your stance and your positions on your worldview, right? So that goes across the board with relationships, how you feel about politics, romance, finances, all these things. I think this by by 30, 35, you need to know how you feel about how you want to be treated in your relationship, how you want your money to look, what you think about the policies of them, all these different things. So it so the only way that I feel like you really can get that done is through the experience of dating. Like, so you're gonna have to go through some good, you're gonna have to go through some bad, but it's all to figure out like what do I really want in my wife, my partner, uh, who I'm gonna be sharing all this time with because a relationship at the end of the day is you spending your time with another person, you know what I'm saying? And we know that time is more valuable than anything. You know what I mean? So these the the like the gender roles, marriage, I'm not gonna expose, you know, uh 100% how I feel about that. But I do think that for me, I think that um the man needs to have the man needs to hold a certain position in a relationship regardless. Yeah, I think that the woman, you know, we got a lot of women that feel like, you know, they're alpha. We got a lot of women that feel like, you know, that that they want to be in a soft life. Like it's it's all across the board. So you could pick and choose what you like they they are out there. Yeah, you got women that don't they don't want to take care of, they don't want to do nothing, they just want you to be the man and do your thing as a man. You got some women that want, hey, I I need to say so on some of this stuff that's going on. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? It's out there on both ends. So you just kind of have to to navigate that, yeah. You know, as a man, and and that's what we do as men anyway. Like we we wake up every day and we make our own choices. We choose you know who we want to communicate with, who we don't want to communicate with, and don't find no type of way about it, you know what I mean. I'm saying so you gotta carry that same energy into your into your relationship and how you deal with women and not get caught up or you know whipped into you know what I'm saying acting out of out of your own character because I think that's what a lot of men kind of get we we mess up at, you know what I'm saying? You know, you you kind of get whipped a little bit and now you doing stuff that you don't normally do, and it's like, oh man, like how did I get here? Yeah, I wasn't firm, I wasn't, you know, I didn't stand on business like I should have. Right now you got now, you don't open up a can of worms and she's feeling some type of way about this, and you don't want to break her heart and you don't want to do yeah, like it gets messy, you know what I'm saying? So you gotta be concrete in your view and your position from day one.

Representation: Couples With Staying Power

SPEAKER_00 27:56

That's so powerful, Jay. Uh, and I think that's important. If there's any takeaway, you know, from us having a conversation, because again, we both went on a tandem, but at the end of the day, you know, you have your standards. And when you compromise yourself by connecting yourself or entertaining someone that doesn't meet your standard, then you're you're opening up yourself to so many issues in the future, even if it feels good temporarily, even if you're leading with okay, well, I feel a connection and chemistry. The standards aren't gonna change, so you can't change anybody that already stands firm on how they feel. Now, again, you guys can compromise for connection. I kind of like that. You like that? You can compromise for connection, but that is gonna be temporary, and then you at some point, you know, you you're locked in for six months and seven months, you had a year. Hopefully, you had a kid or two by then, or hopefully you didn't move in and stuff like that to where now you have an obligation to stick around, right? And then you start holding uh, you know, yourself accountable of uh well, you know, um I'm I'm obligated to this person, I want to do right by them, but you know that that's not gonna last long term, and so it can go from you know six months to where you have that light bulb moment to you look down, and now you're talking about you don't waste the last six, seven years with this person. Oh like that is the reality, and so then after you have way uh quote unquote wasted six, seven years, guess what story you're giving to the new person. Oh man. Guess what what what uh leverage or requirements now come with uh you know your statement, your opening statement for the new person. Ain't nobody gonna want to deal with you. You're gonna be considered damaged, you're gonna be considered bitter, and and you're gonna be considered uh or in or or not considered to somebody who you know potentially has a lot of more traits and characteristics that will be a good fit. But now they're looking at you like, well, wait a minute, you just dealt with BS for the last five, six years, right? And so you want me to be your savior now? Uh oh, hey, don't cut my mic off. Uh now you want the next person to be your savior. That's tough, you know. And so now you're talking about why I'm dating for marriage. Well, you're only dating for marriage now because you didn't get married in your last relationship. You you should date to learn more about yourself, date for compatibility, alignment, and purpose, and and it's going to evolve into what it needs to evolve. But if you out here pushing you dating to marriage, then that means every man that dates you is like, well, she gonna she's gonna want to get married soon. Yeah. Soon. Not even look, not even going through, you know, do we have the bandwidth to do that? She just automatically, the best candidate that's gonna accept my requirements. Right. That's not healthy. And it's dysfunctional on top of that. So look, Jay, uh, let's do this. Let's just kind of go over because I think representation is really important, and and we have to acknowledge what's going on. And and I think that there's a handful of couples out there that um, you know, are doing it and making it happen. So, you know, let's let's kind of name off a few that you know, whether they're celebrities or whether they're you know people that we know directly or maybe indirectly, you know, in the family tree and whatnot, that have uh found a way to make it last forever. Shout out to uh K Sweat on that one. So uh, you know, um can you can you name a few?

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Uh yeah, you know, you got Snoop Dogg, Snoop Dogg and his wife still. True Trump, yeah, yeah. Shantae, I think is her name. You got Ice Cube, okay. His wife.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

West Coast, you you go on West Coast with it.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

You got Alicia, Alicia Key is a Swiss.

Marriage Vs. Life Partnership

SPEAKER_00 32:23

They oh my hey, listen, man. That's the rabbit hole. That's a rabbit hole because uh of how they got together, but but we're not gonna deal with each other. They making it happen, they still together. That's all that matters. Okay, uh, I'll throw in a few. Um, you know, uh, method man and and his wife, you know, they got the new movie out and stuff like that, but at the end of the day, you know, he's kind of been blazing in in the uh the actor's realm. So you know, shout out to to uh to Cal. Um, and then you know, I have to go old school, you know, uh Angela Bassett and uh and Courtney, Courtney uh Vance or Vance, depending on what country you're from. You know, um the their relationship, the longevity of their relationship has been respected. And uh Samuel L. Jackson, of course, and and and his wife. Um is she is she Asian? Is she non-black? I don't yeah, I'm gonna say that we have to look at that. We're gonna have to ask to uh get some due diligence on that. Not that it makes a difference, but uh, I still would like to acknowledge that because I think that's cool too. Um and then of course, you know, the uh the infamous Mr. Denzel Washington and um and his wife, I believe her name is Paulette. Um, you know, they've been doing their thing for uh a good moment. And so, you know, I gotta throw, I gotta throw uh Mr. Robert L. Malloy and uh Dolores Malloy in there, man. Um celebrating over 60 years together. Um found a way to to uh stick it out, still be married. Uh, you know, four kids strong, and I can't even count how many grandkids, a whole bunch, and great-grands. So uh, you know, big shout out to uh mom and dad on that, man. And um, you know, and then we'll just end it with that because I think it's so important to uh to share the representation, especially when it's people that you actually know. I mean, there's some aunts, uncles, and and folks like that. I'll even throw in, you know, um, your aunts and uncles, you know. Um my uh sisters, uh both of them have married. Um Shonda married over 20 plus years. Um and uh, you know, Sherry uh definitely some years in. And uh and that's good, man. That's representation that shows uh the value of partnership. So I think what we'll do though is we'll kind of we'll we'll kind of dig into this another episode, Jay, because you know, one thing I want to talk about also is those that uh believe in and have exercised the traditional marriage versus those that believe more so in a life partnership. And because both of those um are important and there's representation, and then even on the life partnership, there's folks that that haven't necessarily been traditionally married but been together like over 30 30 years. I mean, what comes to mind is is uh Oprah Winfrey and Steadman, like they still rocking. They still rocking, man, without the marriage certificate, and and it seems like they locked in because I ain't seen neither one of them pop out with somebody else. So so the respect level was there, and if it works for them, it works for them. So uh, you know, that being said, look, uh we have explored the month of February, Black History Month, uh, Black History period, um, and then the love month. And so, you know, continue to uh represent, continue to be a student of life, and just keep learning. And we thank you guys for your support. That being said, look, we'll see you next episode. Hobson Sun Conversations, your favorite silver fox, Rob Malloy.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Check three times, we out.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

See you next month, next episode.