Throwing Spaghetti at the Wall Until Joy Sticks

What happens when you've checked all the boxes for success but feel empty inside? June Supenpuck knows this terrain intimately. As a first-generation Thai American raised to believe she should become "either a doctor or a doctor," June spent years pursuing external validation through a successful career as a Hollywood stylist. On paper, she had it all – the prestigious clients, the creative career, the accolades. But something fundamental was missing.

"I checked every single box," June shares with remarkable candor. "And once I checked off all my boxes, I was like, 'Wait, aren't I supposed to be happy by now?'" This pivotal realization began a transformation that would eventually lead her to become a Joy Guide, podcast host, and champion for authentic living.

What makes June's story so powerful is her willingness to name the performative aspects of high achievement – what she calls the "dance, monkey, dance" of appearing put-together while crying in bathroom stalls between client meetings. For many high-achieving listeners who've mastered the art of making everything look effortless, June's admission that she had to "stop lying to herself" offers both challenge and profound relief.

Now working with "heart-led leaders and high-achieving humans who are successful on paper but secretly wondering 'is this it?'," June brings a unique blend of psychology background, spiritual tools, and lived experience to her coaching practice. Her definition of joy itself is revolutionary – not the constant happiness we're sold, but "being so honest in being yourself at any given moment, giving space and honor to the version of you that's showing up today."

Ready to take your own brave, messy step toward greater authenticity? June's journey from external achievement to internal alignment reminds us that sometimes the most courageous thing we can do is admit when something isn't working, even when everyone else thinks it should be. Subscribe to hear more conversations that illuminate the unfiltered reality of transforming your life one honest moment at a time.

Transcript

Speaker 2 0:15

Welcome to the SheSweet Society, a community where women from all backgrounds come together to share their stories, support one another and reveal the unfiltered reality of our lives. Share their stories, support one another and reveal the unfiltered reality of our lives. I'm your host, dahlia, and this podcast exists to give space and voice to women whose experiences might otherwise go unheard. Today I'm joined by June Sapunpak, a Joy Guide speaker and host of how to Find Joy podcast. June works with heart-led leaders and high-achieving humans who are successful on paper but secretly wondering is this it? With a background in psychology, a past life in Hollywood and a toolbox that includes human design, astrology and nervous system healing, she guides people through the real work of becoming who they are.

Speaker 2 0:55

June's story perfectly illustrates that sometimes the most profound transformations come from admitting we've been lying to ourselves. Her journey from high-achieving stylist in Hollywood to joy guide is a masterclass in having the courage to quit when something isn't aligned, even when it looks good on paper. What makes June's story so compelling is her honesty about the performative nature of achievement and the exhaustion that comes with pretending everything's fine when it's not. As a first-generation American raised with the pressure to be either a doctor or a doctor June spent years chasing a version of success that left her feeling empty, despite all the external validation. Her pivot wasn't just a career change. It was a complete reimagining of what it means to show up authentically in the world. Through her podcast YouTube channel and her cozy, substack community, the Joy Rebellion, june creates spaces where the messy middle is always welcome.

Speaker 3 1:49

How would you describe your day-to-day now?

Speaker 4 1:54

Oh, my day-to-day now, I think, is the most aligned I've ever been and it's also the most chaotic it's ever been because I'm a new mom. So I am 40 and 41. Oh gosh, I'm 41. Yeah, 41, had a baby at 40, I'm a late bloomer, but, yeah, life is so chaotic and crazy and yet I feel so grounded and the most myself I've ever felt in my life and some people are attributed to what Carl Jung's quote about like being 40, everything before 40 was an experiment or research, and I kind of feel that way. I really do. I feel like, oh my gosh, I'm starting my life. How cool is this? That's how I feel. Why is it that?

Speaker 3 2:41

way. It's so true, I don't know. I have obviously studied Carl Jung in the past, but I did not attribute any of this to that. But that is very true. Everything up until 40 is sincerely just an experience and it's all experimental. And then it feels like you're living A lot of research. It feels like you're living life for the first time. What is with that?

Speaker 4 3:02

I don't know, for the first time, what is with that, I don't know. I think it's like all this, you know, throwing spaghetti at the wall, messing up your 20s is a whole F up, you know, and at least mine was. And then 30s, you're like I'm starting to realize what being adult means, right? And then I think, by the time 40 rolls, you're like okay, I know who my friends are now. Who, like, what do I want to do with? Like my bigger calling or my work Cause I've tried all the jobs, at least again for me. I feel like I've tried all the jobs and thrown all the spaghetti and now I'm like oh, okay, this is who I am and I'm excited about it. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 3 3:44

Nice yeah. So let's talk about some of the spaghetti throwing. What were some of those noodles?

Speaker 4 3:51

Well, I mean, I think I lived my path very linearly. You know school and my parents. I'm first gen Thai, so an only child as well.

Speaker 4 4:02

So it was really heavy to wear that crown, and I would say it was not really a crown, it was a burden. And I do feel, though, that, you know, my parents did the best that they could with what they knew, but it was a lot of pressure, and it was all like education is everything. So I did the linear path of, oh, go to school. They put me in a nice school that they could not afford, and I kind of had to bust my butt off in order to get to college and then get to grad school. I just felt like the spaghetti was all laid out for me.

Speaker 4 4:44

You know, it wasn't really like fun spaghetti. It was like this is exactly the pasta. You will use the exact ingredients, and if you mess up, you will be disowned. No, I get it Right. So I do think that, you know, there was a lot of pressure, uh, for a really long time, and the spaghetti throwing finally officially happened, I think, around college, when I just couldn't get into any of the art classes that I wanted to get into, because that was like, actually my passion. I'm very creative and that's not surprising.

Speaker 3 5:19

I can tell the creative part about like that is the least shocking thing.

Speaker 4 5:24

Well, I mean, I think my parents knew too, but they were just like no, you need to be a doctor or you need to do this. It's so stereotypical, right? I hate saying it, but it is. And so the closest thing that was. My next passion was psychology. So I have a psychology background and thought I was going to do therapy and be a therapist, especially for children, because I'm like, okay, I could do art therapy for them. I could really like help heal right at the beginning, when you know that would help the most.

Speaker 3 5:55

Yeah.

Speaker 4 5:55

And then you know, I think a part of me, my soul, died. Every time we're doing any of the you know in real life time with these suffering kiddos or you know seeing any of the data, it just it really did not feel aligned for me to go the PhD route, or that route at all, in fact, and so simultaneously I was like pursuing art or create anything creative couldn't get into the art classes. All the baseball and football players at UVA took all those classes because they're easy, and so I landed randomly in a costume design class and that actually turned into my career. So talk about random spaghetti.

Speaker 1 6:41

But yeah, I just was like okay, I guess we're doing this random spaghetti.

Speaker 4 6:43

but yeah, I just was like, okay, I guess we're doing this. And it was yeah, it was all because I couldn't get into what I really wanted to get into and I was doing I mean, I love psychology, I love science backed anything. I really love the strong foundation of understanding how we became who we are and how we think and you know the biology of things. I really appreciate all of that. And then I feel like my creative side was like, yeah, but we're like what about all the other stuff? What about all the things that are not explained away by quote unquote facts?

Speaker 4 7:16

So you know, I think going to Hollywood, you know, was my pursuit in the end and I went to UCLA, got my master's there in costume design and worked in the industry for well over a decade doing kind of like feature films and, you know, commercials and then working with personal clients. So I was really like my goal was to kind of, okay, let me understand the psychology of clothing, then Let me understand like people through characters. And you know, in the end, when I was working with leaders and CEOs and founders and kind of dressing them for their brand, I was like, oh, wow, yeah, I feel like I really just want to help people from the outside in and make them feel good by what they wear, and I had know, I had the sweetest of intentions, but it was so clear that that spaghetti was wrong. I was like, oh, this doesn't feel good.

The Courage to Quit

Speaker 4 8:12

I feel like anytime, you know, the people take off the Gucci and the Fendi and whatever, like all the brand names, like once they took that off, they still felt like crap, you know, and I realized, oh, I don't like this. I think that's why I wanted to start off being a therapist, because you're working from the inside out, not the outside in, right. And so, yeah, I mean, I ended up quitting my job. You know, do not recommend blowing up your life like this.

Speaker 3 8:42

Yeah, I was like how did you do that? Did you just out of nowhere? You're like done.

Speaker 4 8:47

No, it was a long time coming. I think you know I really battled it out and did my best. I had a successful career, in my opinion. I got to do what I wanted to do. I checked all the boxes, you know. I checked every single box. And once I checked off all my boxes and I was like wait, aren't I supposed to be happy by now? This doesn't feel right. I spent a crap ton of money on education that told me I'd get this amazing job and I did, but at the end of the day, I still looked in the mirror and I felt sad, I felt empty, and that was when I kind of started having like a version of a existential crisis, spiritual awakening, whatever you want to call it. But it ultimately led to me finding like a coach for the first time.

Speaker 4 9:37

I like Googled or I yelped coach near me One day. I was so upset I just yelped it and found the first person that popped up, reached out to them and ended up in this like container of 20 women who were just learning to unfold and understanding their voices. And what did they want? And it was mostly coaches and like me and one other person who was not a coach. So I didn't know that this was even meant for coaching. I was like I just want to see if I can get an agent and work on my business. So when that happened, that was what kind of gave me the courage to be like, wow, I think I don't think this is it. I think I need a pivot, and the pivot might actually mean blowing up my life and quitting my job.

Becoming a Joy Guide

Speaker 3 10:23

So it's terrifying it, but also, but also so like what a what a beautiful risk that you know you can only go as far as you're willing to risk, and and you took a bet on yourself and went that way. Which is it? I find the whole thing a little bit funny, because had you not gone that way, we might not have ever met. And here you go this way and I have a hard time, even when I talk, like when I tell others about you, it's hard for me not to just call you joy, because joy is how I know you to be, like I met you that way. And so let's talk about that pivot process for you. You pivoted and now you exude and embody what I think is just pure light and pure joy. But I know that in the grand scheme of life one cannot exist with its polar opposite, twin. So tell me about this pivot how did you end up as Joy? I?

Speaker 4 11:24

know, right, I think that was the funny part is you mentioning that you want to call me Joy? People in the program kept calling me Joy accidentally, like the whole time, the entire time, and so this word has been percolating around me for a really long time before I became a Joy guide, right, and it was interesting because I look back on my childhood and I would definitely say that people would describe me as really joyful and it didn't really feel odd that people would accidentally call me that, but it felt kind of just like, oh, that's nice, they're seeing a nice version of me. But at that time, during my pivot, I felt like I had been lying to myself for so long that I didn't believe it. You know, they would be like, oh, my God, you're so joyful. I'm like, oh, if only you knew how depressed I am and how sad I am and how like this job is killing me and how I've put every on the line for this dream. That no longer fits and I'm trying to put, I'm trying to make it happen, you know, and it is so interesting because by the time I quit my job in 2019, officially I had kind of started meeting clients who were supposed to be just like regular styling clients.

Speaker 4 12:49

And it was so funny because I felt like the universe was like giving me strong hints, like you need to leave, because they would call me in to do their clothing. But then they'd say things like well, june, I want to get a divorce, or I'm about to get a divorce, so can you please help me find my feminine energy again. Or hey, june, I'm 65 and I'm ready to start dating and like really own my power as a person and I'm like OK, but you guys know that I do clothing right, we're doing clothing here, right. And it just kept happening with all these clients and I feel like they were seeing me, kind of like. You know, the people were accidentally calling me joy. It's like, for whatever reason, even when I was feeling my worst, there were still certain qualities about me that are, I guess, innate, that people picked up on and they were showing me this blessing of a mirror of like no, no, no, no, this is what you do. And so you just kept fighting it.

Speaker 4 13:55

I did. Man, I'm pretty stubborn, I'm pretty stubborn. And so I'm like I mean, you and I met because I was leading a workshop for high achievers, right? So it's like being a high achiever and just being raised that way, or just personality wise. Being raised that way or just personality wise, I don't. I think quitting is not an option and in a lot of ways I was like no, I refuse, I'll make this dream work, like look at how much time and energy you spent. And now I look back and I was like, oh damn, I should have quit a long time ago. It was, it was not aligned.

Speaker 3 14:33

There's so many reasons for it, like ego, pride, familial, whatever, being first generation American by way of Egypt. Similar, similar upbringing in terms of you must, you don't come home if you don't have an, a number one, two, your path is either doctor or doctor. So you're either going to be a medical doctor or a PhD in something else. They didn't care at all about extracurriculars, didn't care about if you had friends. It's all about education and grades. I get it, which is why we end up trying so hard to get that quote, unquote perfect job and then realizing that none of it is what matches what we're here for.

Speaker 4 15:15

No, no, and I am so grateful that I had that awakening and realization and I guess the courage to quit it takes a lot of courage to quit.

Speaker 4 15:28

Yes, and now I feel like my mission is to support people in taking that brave, messy step and, in a lot of ways, a catalyst that could potentially change your life.

Speaker 4 15:42

And you know, I did it by myself and sure, I had support from, like, family, friends and, at the time, my boyfriend now husband and I just feel, like you know, as a high achiever. It was really hard for me to admit that I was in the wrong direction. It was really hard and I had a lot of shame and I think that's probably why I carried all of the burden by myself and I just went into it, internalized depression, and went high, extra high, functioning, and nobody could tell. But, like now, I'm just like, oh, my gosh, we don't have to do this alone. Like if you, my gosh, we don't have to do this alone, like if you are struggling, you do not have to do this alone. And I feel like high achievers have a hard time admitting that they're struggling, which is like the first part of the whole thing that could really truly change your life for the better.

Speaker 3 16:31

And so, yeah, it goes against being an achiever. Don't struggle, yes exactly.

Speaker 4 16:41

You don't have problems. No, what is that? That's just something to overcome Exactly. And I remember reaching the highest point of my career and everything, and feeling deeply is this, it, is this it? And it hits so hard because I was just like man, I worked so hard and I'm here and it just feels so off and so wrong and I think now I'm just like, yeah, quitting my job was the exact right thing to do, because now I'm on a path where I'm just genuinely, even with all the mess, even with all the chaos, I do feel the joy that people reflect back to me, that they've seen. I actually finally feel it myself.

Speaker 3 17:24

Well, I mean, yeah, I guess when you exude it it might be hard to receive it because you're so used to pushing it out that you're not used to getting it back. Maybe, Sure.

Authenticity and Self-Trust

Speaker 4 17:34

And I think also it's like performative, though If I look back on my life, a lot of high achieving anything was to perform like dance, monkey dance, you know like and I really you think that a lot of being a high achiever you're forced to be performative.

Speaker 4 17:51

And you know, I remember having the worst days on the job and I wouldn't cry in front of the bosses or anything like that. I'd go into the bathroom or behind some racks of clothing and cry my eyes out. And people were, you know. When I finally quit my job, I remember that day it was the first day that I lost my cool and everyone was so like, are you okay? Because it was abnormal for me. But I was hitting such a spot in my core where I could. The dissonance between what I was feeling internally that this is not the right path, and like the reality of being in the job was so strong that my anger came up and I just was like I quit, I can't do this. I quietly quit before. Quiet quitting was a thing, but like I couldn't take jobs, it was so wrong and that integrity within me was like you can't keep doing this.

Speaker 3 19:02

No.

Speaker 4 19:03

And you're going to spend a lot of your savings quitting this job without a plan. But yeah, it was worth it.

Speaker 3 19:13

What does authenticity mean to you now? Going through all that sounds to me like there was a lot of masking going on, a lot of trying to be somebody else or whatever picture you had in your mind, but that was probably also placed on you to some degree. So finding your authentic self can be a bit of a challenge, and then even more so, accepting yourself and then living that. What does that look like to you?

Speaker 4 19:41

So now it's so different from before. I think like authenticity and being genuine. It's not like I was not being genuine before, but I think I convinced myself of this is who I am, and so I just showed up just naturally that way, and now I really realized that, oh, to be truly genuine, to show up as my true self, I have to stop lying to myself. That was like. My first step is admitting there's a problem right hey you're lying to yourself.

Speaker 4 20:14

And I'm like, no, but everything's so shiny, june, look at all these awards, look at all this, like this amazing job with the money. And then I was just like, oh no, I'm lying to myself. People you know are saying, wow, your job's so cool. I'm like, yeah, it is. And I'm like, no, it isn't. I hate it. What, who are you? And so I really was. I had to stop lying to myself and I think that's like what I want everyone to kind of like all the time, because I have to decondition from behaviors that I've done pretty much my whole life to show up as the realest, truest and most joyful version of me. Right, and that joy doesn't mean which I used to think was like, oh, I'm happy all the time.

Speaker 4 21:16

No, that was the performative self that was the achiever liar Like thank you, Sit your ass down.

Speaker 3 21:22

Yeah, I don't trust people that are happy all the time.

Speaker 4 21:25

No, I really I'm. The first thing I do If I come across somebody who reminds me of me is like, are you okay? Because, again, the strong person needs to hear that. And you know, for me it's now. It's like being honest in these moments.

Speaker 4 21:41

You know, there was a part of me even last night, before this podcast. I was like, oh my gosh, I haven't done a guest podcast in a while. Should I prepare? How do I show up? And I had to, like, calm that old voice down and be like, no, you don't remember June, you don't do that anymore, don't worry about that anymore. Oh, thank goodness. Okay, I can stop sweating. I can stop like, but maybe sweating for a different reason, because I'm going to show up in the most vulnerable I've ever been. If I'm having a bad day, I'm going to tell you hey, I'm having a bad day right now. I'm not going to be as awesome, and that's okay because that's real.

Speaker 4 22:18

And I have found that you know the times where I have been in the pursuit of happiness, right, and thought that joy was so far away because it meant that it would be consistent in every day. That's so much pressure to be like oh well, you have to be happy all the time. That's real joy. And now I'm realizing and I think to your question about authenticity I really do think that experiencing joy is being so honest in being yourself at any given moment, giving space and honor to the version of you that's showing up today and that takes a lot of courage because it's very vulnerable and at the same time, though the times, that my high achiever self could take a backseat and my, I guess, highest potential self, my future self, whoever I'm embodying now, takes the seat forward and is able to say yeah, I'm really struggling right now.

Speaker 4 23:13

Or I just needed to take a moment and cry because being a mom is really hard and I don't even know how to contain my hormones and feelings anymore. I don't even know who I am, you know like, like being able to say those things or say you know what I don't know. Those are the, the scary bits that I feel like high achiever June was never able to admit, like she's not allowed to say I don't know who is that you know, or I'm not okay. And now, when I do say that and I'm witnessed in it, I think that's the important part. I can say it to myself all day long.

Speaker 3 23:49

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 23:50

Right, but if I can sit in front of you and I can say it and like be witnessed, even if it's awkward for the person, but I know I'm showing up for myself in a genuine place, like I do, walk away feeling so much more joy because it's exhausting to pretend.

Speaker 3 24:10

God, yeah, it is so exhausting to pretend I really don't know, and it's exhausting watching people pretend I have a question. Then yeah, because I get asked this a lot and I'm interested to see what your response is. If you could and I'm sure you've been asked this question before but if you could go back, or if you, as you are right now, can sit with your younger version of yourself, what would you say? And then part B would you change anything?

Speaker 4 24:42

Okay. So, yes, I have been asked this, but now that I'm a mom, I think it's going to be so different. And the reason is just because I you know, we've talked and I do feel like the Grinch where my heart has grown exponentially more sizes than I ever thought I could. And if I were in front of my younger self, I don't, I, I think I would definitely say like you don't have to try so hard. You are worthy just as you are and you are loved unconditionally. You know, no matter what other people say to you, no matter if your parents say they might disown you, no matter any of those things, you're always going to have your back too, and you're worthy just as you are. I really feel like it's so cheesy because people say that, but to hear it from somebody else saying it to you, and if I could just be in front of that little girl and give her a hug, I want to. I just like, I want to get emotional right now. It's like that matters.

One Brave Messy Step

Speaker 4 25:53

I think about, like me leaving, you know, a legacy for my kiddo, and if I could say something to him right now, I think that would be it. And if I had to part this depart from this earth tomorrow. I'm like, oh, at least he got that bit of wisdom. You know, you don't have to try so hard, you are worthy just as you are. And like trust yourself. I think that's the other thing. It's like trust yourself Because it's not like I didn't know any of this, Like I think I'm just following now what I've always seen within myself but just never had the courage to trust myself, because the world always, or my parents or whoever, school always told me to trust something else. Right, and now I feel like I I'm actually trusting me and listening to me for the first time. So, yeah, and and I don't think I'd change anything, I'm not a regrets person.

Speaker 3 26:46

Yeah, if you did, then would you end up where you are now? It's like you have to go through certain things to get to get to this spot, to this 40 year old version of yourself.

Speaker 4 26:56

Exactly, exactly. I mean, what would you say to yourself?

Speaker 3 27:00

To say to myself very similar it would be you are okay, you're going to go through some stuff, it's going to make you into me, but just know that you are always loved, because something about always knowing that you're loved, love is the most powerful emotion. People always think it's hate. It's not hate, it's love, and even hate is derived from love. But love is the most powerful emotion, and just knowing that you are loved, no matter what, no matter if they're still living or not, no matter if they've yet to come into your life, no matter if they're the people that are around you, no matter if it's just yourself, is that you are loved, which is in essence. You are enough, because that is exactly it. You don't need anything else. This idea of need and want is it's constructed. If people really sat with themselves and understood that they are okay exactly as they are, I think I think a lot more people would be more vulnerable and open.

Speaker 4 28:03

Oh yeah, absolutely, and I and I have done a lot of shadow work.

Speaker 3 28:08

I have a whole journal down here.

Speaker 4 28:09

I have a suitcase of journals. I'm not even joking Like I really do. If you come over, we're going to go to the basement and take a look at my suitcase of journals. But I feel like in all the therapy and the healing work and all the things that I've done, the biggest root for me that motivated me to be a high achiever for my parents was because I was afraid of being unlovable if I didn't meet the conditions Right, and so for me it turned into okay, let's perform, let's shape shift, let's people earn the love.

Speaker 4 28:41

Yeah, earn the love and also was raised with codependent codependency. So I think a lot of the work I do now is kind of supporting people and shining a light on, like, what is the motivation behind why I want to achieve so much? And you know we all have different motivations, but there's a very common one and it is like oh, I inherently fear that I will be unlovable if I don't meet this, whatever standard it is that your child brain created.

Speaker 3 29:14

Yeah.

Speaker 3 29:14

A long long time ago, it's just so sad because they should everybody should, at one point in their life, if not their whole life, understand the concept of unconditional love and what that actually means. It's actually. The next tattoo I'm getting is literally the symbol. There's a symbol for unconditional love and what that actually means. It's actually. The next tattoo I'm getting is literally the symbol. There's a symbol for unconditional love and it just I'll show it to you next time I see it. I'll actually text it to you. It's what I'm getting on my other wrist, so I like to put them.

Speaker 3 29:42

I only have one other tattoo, but I'm going to put it on this other wrist and it just so happens I can interweave my kids' initials in there, where it's still artistic. But it means unconditional, because that is to me what I try to spread anyway. But that means also meeting you at your ugliest, meeting you at your darkest, because I need you to know, even in those spots you are still lovable, like, even through it all. So I know which is, which is funny, because we talk a lot about the, the work that you do and I do being a bit, a bit polar, but still, but still similar results in the, in the end, still mirrors, in a way, and I think that that is just so brilliant. So what? What in the interest of time? Cause I try not to you know whatever.

Speaker 3 30:31

I always end the episode, the whole episode, always ends up being advice, which is wonderful, but I like to end it with maybe a piece of advice that you could give to the listeners listening, whether it be actual advice or a motto that you live by.

Speaker 4 30:51

Okay, yeah, I think for me, the motto that I am really trying to embody is like one brave messy step at a time. I love that and I think I don't have any tattoos, but I've been thinking about it. I was like maybe I should, just so as a reminder I will put it on my wrist and I will always look at that but one brave messy step at a time, because I think that if you are willing to just do one brave thing, one scary thing, that feels more aligned with who you truly are my one brave messy was again quitting my job. That was like a grenade. So again, I'm an Aries, so it makes sense that tracks, but like I truly I mean do not necessarily recommend that but like if it makes you sweat a little and it makes you a little bit fearful of like oh, does your shadow side come out? Like, then it's probably true, it's probably aligned, it's probably worth the risk. And so that's what I want to impart on everybody is to try to think of one brave messy step that you can take today, to unlearn a bit of that conditioning to be perfect. And, you know, allow yourself the room and the grace to honor whatever comes up afterwards. I think that's the thing the aftercare is so important, because if you take that one brave, messy step and you have no aftercare, it's like, oh, I'm never going to do that again and you could just add it to the list of things you do not want to do and address and avoid, right? So we don't want that necessarily, but I do believe that joy being more honest with yourself, figuring out where you're lying to yourself.

Speaker 4 32:33

You know I use modalities like I used, obviously psychological tools to and honor the science back things. But I love to use fun stuff like astrology and human design to kind of like start a conversation, not as like this is the Bible, you know, like this is the way it's like no, it's just fun things like Enneagram or you know your personality test, to kind of figure out like, okay, if I gather this information about who I'm supposed to be or should be or meant to be, maybe I can start that conversation with myself in a fun way to be able to address okay, well, where am I lying to myself? Because sometimes, being in that success-driven, high achiever place, you have tunnel vision so you don't even know where to begin to figure out well, who is my real self. I've been making it till I make it for the longest time. So, yeah, there's a couple of ways. If you don't feel like you can be honest and brave, no-transcript, do that. We're like okay, what's the next moving goalpost?

Speaker 3 34:08

You feel guilt for feeling shame, or feel guilt for feeling happy or enjoying joy. It's like wait, no, you can't take this moment to pause. You have to keep going.

Speaker 4 34:17

Yeah, so yes, one brave, messy step at a time. If you feel the joy, soak it in, do it, allow yourself.

Speaker 3 34:25

I love that. That's perfect. That is very, very perfect. Yeah, yeah, yourself, I love that, that's perfect. That is very, very perfect. Yeah, yeah, well, that's awesome. Thanks for sharing the spaghetti story of your life. I feel like that should be the name of your book the Spaghetti.

Speaker 4 34:37

The Messy Spaghetti, the Pasta, the Pressure Pasta.

Joy as a Birthright

Speaker 3 34:41

From Farfalle to Linguini. Yes, that is so, so great. I think that is perfect. Um, yeah, I think that you know it helps to helps people that are going through literally trying to figure out what they're supposed to be doing in life right now and feeling the pressure from parents and society. I feel like that's most of it parents and and then your external society friends. Maybe they're moving farther ahead in life than you are. Quote, unquote ahead of you, yeah right.

Speaker 3 35:14

Then you are, or the pressure to be something and the assignment of wealth to say, well, you've only succeeded because you're now a multimillionaire. And how false. So many of those that are believed to be success stories really are not success in the right way, because everybody's way is different.

Speaker 4 35:38

Right, and I think it's like when you checked all the boxes and you were successful on paper, but like empty in spirit.

Speaker 3 35:47

Yeah.

Speaker 4 35:49

Right, that's when you do. I think that's the red flag that would be telling that you're probably going in the wrong direction because I think they they do it out of fear.

Speaker 3 36:01

I think, still at the root of it, people are afraid of, of the unknown and ultimately trying to set them up for, like this, this goalpost of success, where what you still going to die at the end of it all, we're all. We're literally that we're that, we're all birthed and die we will all. That's how it happens, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 36:21

And your life isn't guaranteed. You know, I think so, part of the work that I do also is like addressing destination addiction, and it's something that Robert Holden coined and when I heard it the first time I was like, oh my God, that's what I do. And it's just saying to yourself, like, oh, when I do X, I will be happy. You know, when I lose the pounds, when I get the job, when I reach this amount of money, you know, like, when I retire, like we're always waiting to give ourselves permission to feel happy and invite joy in. And I think you know I went through in 2011, three deaths in my family within a few months of each other, and I feel like mortality really is a curse and a gift. Curse, you know, for everything that you go through in your grief, but blessing and a gift because for the first time, you know whatever age I was in 2011.

Speaker 4 37:25

I really saw the temporariness of life and I think it made me go into an existential spiral. But I think those are important right To like reset yourself, to remember oh yeah, tomorrow isn't guaranteed. What am I waiting for? And like why can't I try to get closer to joy and feeling that now, Like, instead of having to earn it or to wait for some right perfect time when you're healed or you have the best. Whatever it is that you're searching for. I think that's that's the thing that is the hardest to untangle is if you have destination addiction.

Speaker 3 38:05

That's a really great point. I think a lot of people love to have excuses to not have to do things because it's hard work. It is still hard work. It is Because it's a different type of work that you're learning. That isn't necessarily so broadly taught. It's a very and it requires you to do the work. Nobody can do this work for you.

Speaker 4 38:28

I would have phoned it in already if that were the case.

Speaker 3 38:33

So it's one of those where it's easier to come up with the excuse to wait for so many things. It is, and so, yeah, hopefully people will understand that they don't have to wait. That in itself is a choice.

Speaker 4 38:49

I know. I mean, I think that's why I'm doing the work that I'm doing now. That's like evolved so many times since 2019. But, like I think now I just want to share that, and from a place, not from like here's, here's what to do, but like from a very human place of I'm. This is what I'm going through, and if I share whatever it is in my practice of one brave, messy step at a time, if whatever it is I share, whether on my sub stack or my YouTube channel, it's like I just want people to a not feel alone, but like be recognized. That no-transcript a little earlier and a lot more grace than I did. But but I think it can happen for anyone and it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. Like it. This is, this is an internal thing and it's a birthright. Joy is a birthright, in my opinion. So great Right, we can access it at any point. I think it's just more of like how do we practice accessing it?

Speaker 3 40:18

Yeah, and, and not feeling all the other feelings that we're told to feel if we're ever happy.

Speaker 4 40:25

Right and categorizing emotions as good and bad. That's something that I've really had to learn how to do, because I used to say that crying was a weakness. You know, being soft was weak, all these things that I feel like the masculine energy of the systems that we've been taught really emphasizes that. That is not strength, and what I'm recognizing, especially in postpartum, is damn. If being a woman is not strong, I don't know what is.

Speaker 3 40:56

I don't yeah, right I have no idea what is.

Speaker 4 40:59

It is in the strength it takes to be both physically strong in the labor moments and then post labor and just like also being so soft and kind and loving is such a strength and it's such a gift and crying is such a gift that I do feel that, yeah, I have such such a different experience of what it is to be strong nowadays oh yeah as of everything that I've gone through.

Speaker 3 41:29

Yeah, exactly, that's exactly right, and I'll double down on that, being a woman and then on top of it, being a mother is one of the strongest, most powerful, most vulnerable things you'll ever do.

Speaker 3 41:43

We were watching some show the other day and the guy or girl in the show said something that I've said from day one, and my kids both whipped their heads and looked at me. I'm like I've said from day one when somebody asked me to describe my kids the way that I describe it is it's my heart walking outside my body, because that is what it feels like and that's why it is so hard to be a mother. It's also the one of the most rewarding things, but also one of the toughest things I've ever done, because I don't know how to let the world in, or I didn't know how to let the world into my own heart, let alone. You don't have a choice now. They're walking and people are going to interact with them, and that's just that's life, and you have to come to terms with that over and over and over again, and it's that's what's tough, the all that life has to offer, but also that makes it beautiful. So I'll double down. I agree, yeah.

Final Thoughts and Reflections

Speaker 4 42:43

And you know, it took me a really long time to come to terms with wanting to be a mom and inviting that in and, of course, not knowing whether or not that was going to happen.

Speaker 4 42:54

But you know, I think of being maternal, and being a mom or a mother doesn't have to be exclusively having a baby. And you know, had I not gone through this experience, I think that I've been learning how to soak in that maternal strength in so many other ways that have been very profound, and I think I was very fearful of going into the act of motherhood because I was like I don't want to F up. I really just don't want to. It was hard enough for my soul. I don't need to burden another soul. But I do think that whether your life either goes down that road or not, or even if you're not even a woman, I think being able to invite that feminine energy in and to empower yourself because I truly believe joy is really allowing yourself that feminine energy and inviting that in and softening to receive it. Because if you're too hard to be like, oh screw, joy, like that's a week yeah.

Speaker 4 43:59

Oh, yeah, struggle is struggle, is strength, like, yeah, you're not going to, you're not going to receive that happiness.

Speaker 3 44:06

How many people say phrases like that, like you got to sweat it out, you got to. I hear it all the time, like when people go to the gym and I'm like why is it so violent? Like why does everything have to be so violent? Yeah, it doesn't have to be so. Hopefully the world will change as we go.

Speaker 4 44:23

Yeah, that's my hope.

Speaker 3 44:25

I'm I'm hopeful for that too. Well, we're, we're doing our part in it, and I think that I think that's beautiful all in itself. And you invite, you invite into your life and into your world Exactly, exactly that the more that you put out, that you want your intentions that are set, is the more that will come back into your life, and I think if more of us do that, it'll just raise everything. I agree. I agree. Hopefully that'll be this Well, thank you so much.

Speaker 4 44:52

I appreciate it, it's my pleasure.

Speaker 2 44:55

What I love most about June's work and story is how she reframes both struggle and joy. Her understanding that joy isn't about being happy all the time, but about being honest about who you are in any given moment. It feels revolutionary in a culture that demands constant positivity. Her mission to remind people that joy isn't some finish line you earn, it's a way of living, one honest, imperfect step at a time resonates so deeply because it acknowledges that transformation doesn't have to be a complete life overhaul. Sometimes it's just having the courage to admit when something isn't working, even when everyone else thinks it should be.

Speaker 2 45:29

I'm particularly moved by June's reflection on unconditional love and worthiness. Her message that we don't have to try so hard, that we're worthy just as we are, speaks to something so many high achievers struggle with the fear of being unlovable if we don't meet impossible standards. June's work helping people unlearn the pressure to prove and reconnect with what feels true is exactly what our world needs right now. For those of you carrying the weight of perfectionism or feeling trapped in a life that looks successful but feels wrong, june's journey reminds us that it's never too late to stop lying to ourselves and start honoring what's actually true. True, if today's conversation inspired you to consider your own brave, messy step. Share it with someone who needs to hear it, and be sure to check out June's how to Find Joy podcast and her Substack community, the Joy Rebellion, for more of her wisdom about leading with soul instead of survival. Until next time, this is your host, dahlia, reminding you that your life is your message to the world. Why not make it extraordinary?