The Rosie and Roula Show

When One Partner Wants a Baby… And the Other Doesn’t | Ep. 242

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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0:00 | 17:12

What happens when a couple wants completely different things about having children?

In this episode of The Rosie & Roula Show, Rosie and Roula discuss the complicated reality of relationships when one partner wants a baby and the other does not.

Roula shares a real-life story about a woman in her mid-40s who becomes pregnant while her partner feels he cannot become a father again. The conversation explores the emotional impact on both partners and raises an important question:

How often do couples truly discuss whether they want children before it's too late?

The episode also revisits themes discussed in earlier episodes, including:

• the societal expectation that women should become mothers

• the pressure women feel as they approach the end of their fertility window

• the cultural tradition of men passing on their name to their children

• why women often take a man’s surname after marriage

Rosie and Roula ask whether men may feel hidden pressure to become fathers, even when they are unsure.

The conversation highlights why honesty about children, marriage and life goals should happen early in relationships — even on the first date.

Because once a child enters the picture, the stakes become much higher.  Topics in this episode

relationships and children

wanting kids vs not wanting kids

biological clock and motherhood

men and fatherhood pressure

dating conversations about children

marriage expectations and surnames

communication in relationships 


Episodes mentioned:

  • 194: Marriage, Surnames, and Power – Conversations About Autonomy in Marriage
  • 24: The Big Question – Do You Want to Have Kids?

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Roula (00:00)
The record is on and yeah, we don't have a banter. We don't.

Rosie (00:06)
Have you got stage

fright?

Roula (00:09)
I don't. I don't have stage fright. But of course I do sweat. I've been on stage. So that's why I have had experience. It's not like I'm inventing it. You know, the adrenaline, sweat. ⁓ You don't see it on me, but from inside I'm like very, yeah. Yeah.

Rosie (00:18)
Have you?

Yeah, I get very sweaty when I'm nervous. Yeah, and the heart's racing.

Yeah.

Roula (00:38)
And then I'm afraid you can hear it in my voice, especially when I started.

Rosie (00:40)
Yeah. Well, I felt, I felt like

when we hit record, you had stagefright. That's what it felt like. Cause you're like, well, we record and I have no banter. Okay. Here we go. Get on with it. Yep.

Roula (00:49)
Okay, not on our podcast. Here we go. Here we go. All right. I do have

Let's go into the seriousness.

Rosie (01:09)
Three

minutes of rambling. Yeah, let's go.

Roula (01:13)
We have made a of episodes about talking about women who want children or don't want children. And I have experienced something that a person she's in her mid 40s and pregnant of her first child. But the person, the partner who's not officially a partner doesn't want to be a father because you already have children.

and he has also a child with disability. So he's not in a place where he wants to have a baby.

And this brought me to the thought of when are we considering what men want because they're not good at expressing their emotions like we do.

At the same time, what if they truly don't want to be a father? And yes, we can go into they could have used a condom, they could have prevented it and all the responsibility and the accountability that they have.

Okay, but these things happen.

Okay. And before they happen, I want to talk about the before, not the after. Before they happen.

Rosie (02:36)
Okay,

yeah.

Roula (02:40)
I really wonder how candid are men in their conversations about wanting to have a child or not?

Rosie (02:49)
I feel like there's two main facets that have come to mind, how men might talk to their male friends about this topic and how they talk to their partners about it. And I wonder, is it the same in those circles or not? I'd like to think if they're in a relationship that they are communicating with their partner about what they want.

I don't know, like you've had children, you've had four kids. How have you navigated these conversations? Why did I say four? Fuck, don't have four. You've got three. Sorry.

Roula (03:20)
No, no, I have three. I have three kids, not four. Four.

you

Rosie (03:32)
mystery child. Tilly, what are you doing, doll? Okay. So I would like to think that men have open conversations about it with their partners. I think a healthy relationship that would happen. But I also wonder if men feel a lot of pressure because it's often seen as women, you know, we're very maternal and it's considered natural.

for women to want children at a certain stage in life and do men feel the pressure to just give their partner what they want, even if perhaps they don't really want kids or they're not sure.

Roula (04:14)
What you're saying makes sense to me. Of course we don't. I didn't ask a male person their opinion, but I know from my conversations. Of course we are. ⁓ You mentioned that we should have these conversations. What I know from experience is that in a beginning of relationship, we are so happy to be together that it could be some topics are avoided.

Rosie (04:21)
Here we are talking on behalf of men, of course we are, yep.

It's a big topic, isn't it?

Roula (04:44)
because we

don't want to break up for this reason. We don't want to bring up a topic too early. And regretfully, we go into a relationship without having talked about the topic. And then it's time one of the partners want to have a child. I do think just like women, we have this pressure that we have to be mothers at a certain age or the expectation that every woman should become a mom.

Rosie (04:51)
Mmm.

Yes.

Yeah,

that's a big thing.

Roula (05:14)
We

forget that it could be that also men have this pressure to have their offsprings to give their name to someone because we also had a topic about how men give name to their children and women and not the women. They could also have this pressure to deliver to the society and to the expectation. And I can only imagine that there are men out there

Rosie (05:24)
Ugh.

Mmm. Mmm.

Roula (05:45)
who this pressure is so heavy on them that they take the decision to please rather because they really want it.

Rosie (05:52)
Yes.

And isn't that heartbreaking for such a critical thing as having children? This is a human being we are talking about and they will directly be impacted by...

who parents them and if one parent didn't really want them but they said yes because they wanted to placate their partner that's going to impact the child that's heartbreaking to me.

Roula (06:23)
Yes, and what I noticed from this conversation with that person is that the partner who doesn't want a child is in very much pain and struggling because he doesn't want to let her down, he doesn't want to let their child down, and at the same time he's very depressed that he cannot do it. And that made me very sad.

Rosie (06:51)
So.

Your friend chose to, like, I don't know how much we can talk about this, so we'll just cut this out if we can't. But was this pregnancy planned or was it more of a it's happened and he didn't want it and she's chosen to keep it or?

Roula (07:08)
I love your question because when are we gonna get into the nitty-gritty thinking of a woman without considering the man? And do know me? ⁓ Well I cannot say I support

Rosie (07:16)
Mmm.

You're as much an advocate

for men as you are for women, I feel. Yeah.

Roula (07:24)
Exactly. I'm advocate for both of them, thanks to

my son who made me feel this way. I'm going to pour my tea. Excuse me for interrupting. What women tend to do, ⁓ I'm not generalizing. Some women. No, no, I'm not. really not. When we get to a certain age,

Rosie (07:44)
You are, but okay, yeah, yeah.

Roula (07:52)
We use it as the main reason and the main excuse to get pregnant. Because I'm getting old, this is my chance now to have a baby, and if I don't, I'm going to lose this chance. And then they decide to get pregnant without really considering the relationship they're in.

Rosie (08:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mmm.

Roula (08:17)
And yes, they can raise a baby alone. I'm not arguing this. They can say, I'm going to raise it alone. Don't worry about it. But are we totally neglecting the emotions of this partner who also put on earth a child from his own flesh and blood?

Because we want to have a baby before the time is too late as a woman.

Rosie (08:45)
feel so under qualified to talk on this. really do. I'm just sitting here going, my God, because it's so easy to just judge and fling these statements around like, ⁓ you know, be responsible. We can't just go in making decisions like that, but it's more complicated than that. And there is this biological clock and there is that pressure. That just is. I think if, if

I were to deny that I would be lying. There is. now, you know, I'm 34 now and I've come to, yes, people can get pregnant after 34, but I've kind of come to a place in life. I'm like, well, I'm not going to have kids. And I'm okay with that. Like, whereas in my early twenties, honestly, Roula I was like, I want kids. And this was a conversation I had with my partner at the time.

She was like, yes. And I'm like, not right now, but like, this is something I want. And then several years in, she said, I lied. actually don't want that. And to me, I was quite cross because she, she hadn't changed her mind. She lied. It's okay to change your mind. Of course it is. But, and it, anyway, I don't know why I'm going down that path.

Roula (10:03)
But this tie-in,

no, it's a great example. It ties into the partner.

Rosie (10:08)
Cause she probably felt the pressure. want this

relationship. My partner wants kids. I don't really, but I'm going to say yes. Cause I don't want it to end yet. That's probably something. Yeah. Yeah. I think other couples have probably been through that. Gotcha. Yeah. And so.

Roula (10:18)
Yeah.

This what I was trying to say in the beginning.

See, you're qualified. I took the example talking, I really want to talk about the partner as a male, but thanks for reminding me that a partner can be same sex and still in the same situation.

Rosie (10:28)
Well, there we go. Thank you.

Well, true. know, it's slightly different in that. Well, I was going to say it can't happen accidentally. There's there's fringe cases where it could. But generally speaking, in the same sex relationship, it needs to be planned. Like, it's not like, the condom failed or I forgot to take the pill or whatever. It's planned. So that's something else again. But do you think?

And this doesn't have to be specific to your friend, but I'm just thinking there's this relationship. I don't know the ins and outs. She's pregnant. The partner has a child with disabilities and ⁓

words, her partner. he is in a difficult space. He doesn't think he wants children. Like he's got enough going on at the moment. But how do you navigate that? She is keeping this baby, I'm assuming. So it's happening. What happens to the relationship? Could this partner just not be a parent and they stay in the relationship? I haven't seen that, but like, could that be a possibility?

Roula (11:51)
This is like the best question of today, probably even better than my question, Rosie. What happens to the relationship now? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's a process. It's going to be a long process. And people say, ⁓ when you see the baby, you will forget it and you will love it. people say that. And yes, it happens in a minute. But afterwards, reality hit.

Rosie (11:58)
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

That's hard.

They do say that, they do, yeah. Yeah.

Roula (12:20)
responsibility, the tiredness, the waking up at night, the raising a child, being present. It's a person. ⁓ The bottom line to wrap it up, because I don't want to go into so much that is outside of the topic. The bottom line, Rosy, is that partners, when someone says, I don't want to have a child,

At that moment, they need to start thinking, is this a relationship I want to be in or not? And not after the fact.

Rosie (12:58)
Right. How early do you think these conversations should happen? What do you reckon?

Roula (13:05)
If a woman, and I'm talking from a woman point of view, if a woman knows she's rich in age where she needs to hurry and get pregnant because she so much want to become a mother, that could should be the question from her first date.

Rosie (13:08)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm-mm.

Yeah, you need to be upfront about that,

Roula (13:23)
or even

before on emails if it's online dating because there's no even point to meet with this person if that crucial point for you is off the table.

Rosie (13:37)
⁓

Right, yeah.

Roula (13:41)
And this doesn't happen. I mean, yes, we can say all the the the wiseness that do this before and after, cetera. But until we say the words out loud, if you want a child, don't go over dating someone who doesn't want one. People will not think of it. No. How many think?

Rosie (13:43)
No.

You can't live on the false hope that they will change their mind. can't like.

Roula (14:09)
they will change their mind. They love you so much. They will change your mind once you live together. ⁓ Once they see their friends have children. We have to believe it. That if they told me they don't want to have children, not believe it, we have to respect it.

Rosie (14:18)
or in a couple of years, you know, yeah, yeah.

Respect

it. That's right. Respect it and have these conversations. think marriage is another conversation that perhaps needs to happen. Not everybody wants to get married. Not everybody's interested in that. But for other people, it is incredibly important to them. Marriage means a lot. And if they are in a committed ⁓ relationship, they see marriage as a thing. I think that's a conversation that needs to happen, too. Yet the

Roula (14:51)
Yeah.

Rosie (14:53)
The common response seems to be, you know, first date, talking about kids and marriage, you know. But if it's a deal breaker for you, why would you not bring that up?

Roula (15:01)
Exactly, for both parties. The one who thinks, ⁓ she's already talking about children and I don't know her yet. Well, also for men, you need to know for yourself. Do you want to date someone who wants a child or not?

Rosie (15:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, well.

Yeah. And it could be, look, I don't know. And then together you make a decision.

Roula (15:21)
Clarity. Clarity is the key.

Rosie (15:23)
Communication,

yes, yes, as always.

Roula (15:29)
⁓ I'm gonna wrap up this episode and I hope that if you are in this position, a lady who really wants to have a child, please don't wait until he changes his mind. Just go and find a person who really wants to become a dad so you do it. Rosie, of course, I mean, you can go and have a donor.

Rosie (15:43)
fuck.

Roula (15:55)
and have a child through surrogacy or no not surrogacy but donor IVF yes this is also a possibility consider it ⁓ okay that's it for me today

Rosie (15:58)
Mm. IVF, yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Roula (16:13)
You