The Rosie and Roula Show

248: Losing Your Virginity Is Outdated

• Roula Abou Haidar and Rosie Burrows

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0:00 | 16:20

What does “losing your virginity” actually mean… and why do we still say it like that?

In this episode, Rosie and Roula unpack the language, pressure, and cultural weight behind the concept of virginity. From growing up in completely different environments, they experienced opposite sides of the same issue: one where not having sex was judged, and one where having sex was judged.

They dive into how the word “virgin” is used across cultures and languages, and how it often implies that something is taken, lost, or done to someone — especially women.

Roula shares personal experiences of how virginity was discussed growing up, including the expectations placed on women, the double standards between men and women, and the emotional impact of those conversations.

Rosie questions the language itself: what are we actually “losing”? And why is so much value tied to something that isn’t even a physical object?

They also explore how this ties into bigger themes like ownership of women’s bodies, societal expectations, and how outdated beliefs still show up today in subtle ways.

This episode is honest, uncomfortable at times, and challenges a concept most people have never really questioned.

Topics covered

  • Why the phrase “losing your virginity” is problematic
  • Cultural differences and double standards
  • The pressure placed on young women vs young men
  • Language, ownership, and agency
  • Virginity as a social construct
  • Shame, judgment, and identity
  • Why it might be time to drop the word entirely

What does the word “virginity” mean to you — and do you think it still has a place in today’s world?

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Roula (00:00)
Do you see something that you can talk a lot in it?

Rosie (00:03)
I don't know about talk a lot.

Roula (00:06)
How about the episode Virgin?

Rosie (00:10)
I don't know what that is, but okay. Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to have a lot to say. It depends on what question, what the question is. I might let's talk about it.

Roula (00:10)
The girls have to be virgin.

Yeah?

⁓

I thought only when I was young, but this is something still happen, that girls have to be virgin and then they use expression like, ⁓ I don't know what is it in English, but in Dutch is ontmacht, which means you made her not virgin. In French is devierger, which means she's not virgin anymore.

In Arabic it's mafduha which means she's not virgin anymore. I don't know if there's a word in English for it.

Rosie (01:02)
In

English, it's, took my virginity. So it's something someone takes away from you. And like, what? It is annoying, but it's interesting. Me growing up, it wasn't cool to be a virgin. Like if you hadn't lost your virginity, I don't even know what language to use. I hate that lost your virginity. Like what? Losing something? I'm not losing anything. Like, huh? And it's this.

Roula (01:06)
Okay. Yes.

It feels so wrong using it. Yeah.

Rosie (01:31)
There's not some physical thing you hand over. you can take this from me. Here you go. I'm never getting that back now.

Roula (01:39)
Yeah, here you go. This is a piece of my body that I'm giving it to you. You own it now. It's a gift because your penis must have my vagina and I will never ever get it back. That's it. This is the end. You owe it. You own it. It's yours.

Rosie (01:42)
Yeah.

⁓ yes yes fuck yeah

BOOM!

The language around

it is ridiculous.

Roula (02:06)
And I lose it. Because where is it? I can't find it anymore. I can't be virgin tomorrow. I cannot be virgin next week. I lost it. It's forever gone.

Rosie (02:08)
Who is it?

It's such ridiculous language. And then I think at one end of the spectrum, there's people who have lost their virginity in circumstances that weren't consensual. So not only were they in a situation where it was out of their control, but then everyday language is, it's also out of your control. But we should be teaching.

I was going to say our young girls, this apply. Okay. Okay. It does. But would you say it is more focused on women?

Roula (02:50)
Supply to both.

Rosie (02:58)
culturally, societally, right or wrong.

Roula (03:01)
Well,

the majority of the societies and cultures, they care about a virgin girl.

Rosie (03:08)
Girl, yeah.

Roula (03:10)
And on the contrary, it's laughed at a virgin boy.

And then they take the virgin boy to an older lady so she can take away, make him not virgin anymore. Talking about this, it feels so sick. I feel nauseous to talk about this, but it's real.

Rosie (03:21)
it's so toxic. Yeah.

Yeah, it feels so wrong.

so growing up for you, was it frowned upon for young women to have, to not be a virgin anymore?

Roula (03:44)
It was so frowned upon that if a boy and a girl had sex...

Rosie (03:51)
Mm-hmm.

Roula (03:52)
they have to get married if the people if the parents knew know about it they have to get married or he would like kidnap her and then she would pack her things and leave the house and go with him and then the entire neighborhood family think ⁓ then they had sex we have to marry them and why they do this if the parents don't agree on the bride or the groom don't agree on the boy or the girl

Rosie (03:54)
Hmm. Hmm.

Mmm. Wow.

⁓

Yeah.

Roula (04:19)
they find that this is the only way to get married. But this is in the 80s and 70s. I don't think this happens anymore. No, I don't know. No, I don't think so. don't think so. ⁓ It's very frowned upon because every mother-in-law wants a virgin girl for her son.

Rosie (04:27)
No? Okay.

I just don't get it.

Roula (04:44)
And when I was a teenager, they would also talk, she's not Virgin. she's not Virgin. And it's like, but what does it mean, the word Virgin? Where does it come from? Why do we use it? Because of Virgin Mary?

Rosie (04:56)
Mmm!

Virgin's

meant to be more pure or something.

Roula (05:03)
How Mary can be a virgin if she had Jesus? We know better now. We know. We are in 2026 and we know if you're a virgin, there's no way on earth to have a baby unless they inseminate you with sperm, maybe. I don't know. I don't know if this is fact. So we know today no one can get pregnant without an intercourse or an in

Rosie (05:07)
She wasn't a fucking virgin. I'm not sorry.

Yeah, okay, IVF and other things, yes, true. This is true.

Roula (05:32)
Infusion, not infusion, scientific means.

Rosie (05:34)
by scientific means. So technically you could be

a virgin. Technically you could.

Roula (05:41)
Well, probably I have to research this. But yes. No.

Rosie (05:46)
Why do you think if you've

never had penetrative sex that you are avert? Like, where was I going with that?

Roula (05:56)
No no, I know where you're going. Let's say you've never had penetrative sex and you want to have a child. You still can go to a clinic and go through the procedure.

Rosie (06:01)
Yes.

Right. But

have you lost your virginity because a tool has gone inside you?

Roula (06:10)
She's not worth her virginity for a tool.

Rosie (06:12)
Or does it

has to be a penis, doesn't it?

Roula (06:16)
ooh does it have to be a penis? well how many have a penis and don't get pregnant and they still end up to have a tool so it doesn't mean anything

Rosie (06:28)
I

don't under like it's such strange language yet so much importance is put on it like as a teenager growing up it felt like there was all this pressure and there was some some people in high school you know they were losing their virginity at 14, 15 some some of the girls were having abortions at that age and it was just something I couldn't relate to but it felt like there was this pressure.

You know, if you haven't had sex, you're not cool. Have you lost your virginity? When did you lose your

Roula (07:02)
Mm.

So there was like some kind of virginity shaming.

Rosie (07:07)
Yes, yes, definitely. So that's quite different to how you grew

Roula (07:12)
Yeah.

Well, I grew up also with virginity shaming. You must be a virgin. You grew up with the other. Yeah. And this this topic came also to mind because of a recent I was reading a book, I think. a research, I can't remember. I was reading something on this topic and it brought up my memories of how much.

Rosie (07:17)
or true, it's shaming in a different way.

Roula (07:39)
I was upset when I was younger, whenever this word came up. But also I was upset because the boys talked about a girl who lost her virginity, like she is, she's nothing. She has no future and like she doesn't have any, they don't have respect for her.

Rosie (07:41)
Mmm.

Yeah, okay.

Roula (08:03)
And it's been for me really always very hard to understand why the fuck is it your business?

Rosie (08:13)
Hmm. And why is somebody's self worth or worth their perceived worth got anything to do with their sexuality or their sexual activity or any of that? What's that got to do with anything?

Roula (08:25)
What does it have to do with anything?

But this also brings us to a world where women's body is owned by... ⁓ I know what it was. I was watching in the ⁓ European... not European Union, hold on, I saved it somewhere.

her name is Abir Abir and she advocates for women rights and every time I save something on my Facebook I don't know where to go and find it. How awesome is this?

Rosie (09:00)
save all these things and I always forget. you found, okay, there you go.

Roula (09:02)
I found it. I found

it's in the European Parliament. Her name is Abir Al Sahlani, where I can pronounce it on Arabic because her name is I don't know if she's from Iran or and she's a Europe Parliament, Europe Parliamentor member, and she advocates for women, women rights. This is why, because she was saying in her

Rosie (09:10)
You can, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Roula (09:28)
time to speak that whenever there is a law because now there's a law that women is allowed to do abortion in the European Parliament and then this law comes and then the men colleagues they don't vote whenever there's a law about women they either don't vote or bring another topic.

Rosie (09:38)
Mm-hmm.

Roula (09:52)
And she was bringing this subject about how every time women want to have a law to support them, the men are not on board, even though they say they support them. But when it comes to really voting, they don't support them. And she mentioned something about virginity, which brought me to my memories of how much I used to be angry and upset when this topic comes up.

Rosie (10:06)
you

Roula (10:20)
in the circles of conversation between my mom and her friends, or my brother and his friends, my friends, or even having a boyfriend who wants to have sex with me and making it clear that if I'm not a virgin, there is no future between us.

Rosie (10:38)
so strange. That's so good. Yeah, exactly.

Roula (10:38)
Who told you I want the future with you anyway?

You know?

Rosie (10:46)
Yeah, the language around it is just so archaic and ridiculous. It takes away agency from people. I think it is very woman focused, but it applies to all genders, I think, because as it becomes more accepted and talked about, you know, different genders and different relationships, then, you know, a lot of them have sex too. And so they talk about

losing their virginity. I want better language around that. What can we say instead of losing your virginity? Or do we just don't need it full stop? Just, yeah, goodbye.

Roula (11:22)
we don't use it we don't need it we don't need she's not losing anything

she's enjoying sex as much as you are enjoying sex whomever you are she's not losing anything it's she owns it it's her property she does with it whatever she wants

Rosie (11:37)
Yes, she owns it. Yes, she owns it. She owns her body.

Yes, that's right.

Roula (11:44)
She's not losing it to you. She's not losing it to anyone. She's not even losing it to riding a fucking horse or cycling like some people think or doing the split. She's not losing it. Just this should be disappearing from the dictionary. What annoys me is that Vierge des Vierges, Marte, Honte, Marte. Like it has the opposite to it.

Rosie (11:57)
my god.

It's ridiculous.

Okay.

Roula (12:13)
So it's not only the word, there's an opposite word for it. Like open the door, close the door. You know?

Rosie (12:17)
what's the opposite? Yeah what's the opposite

to virgin?

Roula (12:22)
⁓ Yeah, that's the thing. I cannot find the word in English. I can find other languages, but not in English.

Rosie (12:25)
A lot of people,

People might say, you're a slut.

Roula (12:31)
Yeah, but this

Rosie (12:32)
I don't think there

is an opposite.

Roula (12:34)
mean, if you want to use the word version, someone can be a virgin and still be a slut. It has nothing to do with the state of her vagina for real or her vulva or whatever.

Rosie (12:40)
⁓

Yeah. Google

tells me the opposite of virgin is non-virgin, non-virgin. I've never heard anybody say that.

Roula (12:51)
Yeah,

yeah. The Dutch and the French language have found really the right words, which I will repeat it again. Vierge is virgin. Dévierger is non-virgin. Marte is virgin. Untmartre is dévierger. And the words also insinuate that someone did it to her.

Rosie (12:59)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yes. Is it not two people that engage in... ⁓ yeah. Ugh.

Roula (13:19)
that someone did it to her. Fascinating.

Yeah. Rambling on this episode, but if you're a Gen Xer, you understand me.

Rosie (13:32)
It's an important one.

Maybe. Let us know your thoughts. Do you think we're just being, what do people

when people are too politically correct or what do people call... woke! Are you listening and you think we're too woke? I don't know where that word came from, but...

Roula (13:50)
Again, this word woke just like virgin. Why can't we have our own opinion without being catering guys?

Rosie (13:54)
What's wrong with woke? I'm awake. Surely

that's good thing. I'm woke. Why should I be ashamed of that? Fuck yeah. Seriously. I don't think so. It's just like I woke up. I woke. I have no idea. Where did?

Roula (13:59)
woke woke is it an abbreviation for something woke or it just means you're

Because

our society is shifting into right extremism. That's That's why woke is now like a bad word, but I never heard of it until recently from the US of A, of course.

Rosie (14:23)
Yeah, I

don't know where it came from.

Roula (14:25)
I started hearing about it after the Capitol storming.

Rosie (14:30)
Apparently it was in a 1938

song by Led Billy. And then it gained popularity in the 2010s. Yeah, it was in the Black Lives Matter movement that I started hearing the word woke.

Roula (14:43)
⁓ yeah, yeah. Well, if you think we are too woke, be respectful in your reply. OK, because we are woke, but we're not expecting disrespect.

Rosie (14:54)
Get back, you'll answer up.

Right. Respectful responses, opening dialogue. You might disagree, but help us understand why. I would like to understand why. Or if you agree with us, but maybe not some of the things we're saying, I'd love to hear your thoughts because language matters. So does ownership.

Roula (15:16)
Yes. you for listening and keep enjoying your life no matter what others say. Bye!

Rosie (15:21)
Yes,

bye!