Career Pivots: Aline Silva's Journey from Academia to Industry

In this episode of Academics and Their Money, hosts Neeka Miremadi and Inga Timmerman interview Aline Silva, who shares her transition from academia to industry. Originally from Brazil, Aline entered academia after struggling to find a stable career during the 2008 financial crisis. She reflects on how her financial mindset evolved, noting the peace she found through smart decisions like contributing to a 401k. Aline also discusses leaving her PhD program in marketing, where she felt disconnected from her research interests, and how it ultimately aligned with her personal and family goals. She contrasts the realities of academia with her expectations and highlights the similarities between academia and industry, especially in navigating people and organizational dynamics. This episode offers insights into career transitions and aligning professional choices with personal values.

If you’ve got questions, suggestions for future topics, or just want to say ‘hello,’ you can reach us at  https://attainablewealthfp.com/schedule-a-call/.

Any product or financial recommendations provided by Academics and Their Money, Inga, or Neeka are made solely in the author’s opinion and do not constitute professional financial or legal advice. All content is for educational purposes only.

Transcript

Neeka Miremadi (00:01)
Hello and welcome to Academics and Their Money. I'm your host, Neeka Miremadi. I'm also joined by Inga Timmerman, who's my co-host and our guest today, Aline Silva. Aline, thank you so much for coming on.

Aline Silva (00:13)
Hi, thank you. I'm glad to be here. Super excited.

Neeka Miremadi (00:16)
I know, we're really excited you're our first person. So let's just dive right into the interview. We wanna know a little more about who you are and your journey through academia and the academic community.

Aline Silva (00:28)
Sure. Well, first and foremost, I guess I should start by saying I'm an immigrant. I'm originally from Brazil and I grew up in a family of teachers, not professors, but teachers. My dad was a physics and math teacher. My mom was a Portuguese teacher and sometimes it would take me to class with them. So I've always watched them be in front of a class. And then I came to the US at the tender age of 17. First to just perfect my English, but then

Inga Timmerman (00:47)
you

Aline Silva (00:54)
My life ended up taking root here and I went to school at a local university here, FIU. And I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do in my life. If I wanted to be a teacher like my parents, at some point I considered being a psychologist, civil engineering. I was a little bit lost.

And a lot of what happened in my life, I'll be honest with you, it was happenstance, coupled with preparation, because I'm always a hard worker, very nimble. So I ended up falling into this industry because I spoke Portuguese, and it was aviation, and the industry was very volatile. And the way that I came across academia was by accident. I was working for this industry. I had graduated already as a professional, and I got laid off.

So I got laid off during the housing market crisis. was the first time that I had been let go of a company. And at that point, as you all remember, there were no jobs available. was futile. Yes, yes. was like 2010. I think it was beginning to recover, but aviation had just been hit really hard and everybody lost their jobs. My entire department disappeared overnight. So it was futile to try to apply.

Inga Timmerman (01:50)
Back in 2008, 2009, yeah.

Neeka Miremadi (02:03)
Wow.

Aline Silva (02:07)
And my boyfriend at the time lived where I live now here in Boca. He said, why don't you come live with me and rent your place so you can financially be sound while you get yourself back in the job market. And I did that. And then there was a university five minutes from his house. I started looking for jobs, couldn't find a job. There was a university. I checked out their degree programs and I said, hey, I can get paid.

to be a PhD student and it comes with health insurance, why not? into my surprise, they took me in and that's how I came across academia. But to be fair, I had been in front of adult learners. While I was working in aviation, I was a substitute Portuguese teacher at a community college and I really liked that.

It was a side gig that brought me a lot of pleasure. So said, why not try to become a professor?

Inga Timmerman (02:57)
And for

full disclosure, Alini and I met while we were both PhD students in business. I was doing finance and she was doing marketing. So that's how we know each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Many years ago. So that's awesome. That's a really good introduction.

Neeka Miremadi (03:06)
my gosh.

Aline Silva (03:06)
Two broke students.

So broke immigrant students.

Neeka Miremadi (03:11)
love

it.

Yeah, I love that. perfectly segues into my next question. You said that, you know, you're like, I could get paid to get a PhD and there's health insurance. So my question to you is when you think about money and finances, what comes to mind?

Aline Silva (03:30)
I have to think about this one. There's so much that comes to mind when you think about money, right?

Neeka Miremadi (03:35)
You could give me words. You could just word vomit.

Aline Silva (03:37)
But

I think the first thing that comes to mind is stress and peace of mind. Two opposing feelings, but that's how I experienced money throughout my life. Either I was stressed out because there wasn't enough of it, or I felt peace of mind, you know? It's okay. Things are taken care of and I can breathe.

I think money has the power to evoke those emotions in you. You can get really stressed out about it. And then if you do your play your cards right, if you hire good financial advisors, you can follow the recipe to the cake. Maybe you have peace of mind at one point in your life.

Neeka Miremadi (04:10)
Yeah

I love it. Two things can be true at once. I really like that. And it also speaks to how money is a tool and it's neutral, but it's still very emotional. So depending on how we use the tool could be a positive or negative experience. And you've seen both sides of the coin then.

Aline Silva (04:31)
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Neeka Miremadi (04:33)
Wow.

So how did this mindset, so I'm sure that at first there was a lot of scarcity and you had like the anxiety around it. So how did your financial mindset evolve throughout your academic or not so academic career?

Aline Silva (04:49)
I think it's inevitable that it evolves, right? If somebody says that their financial mindset doesn't evolve, there's something wrong with them. I think for most of us, when we start out, as you mentioned, there's scarcity and you can't really think about your future self all that much. You're trying to make ends meet when you're starting out as a student, as a recent graduate, unless you come from...

different backgrounds, of course, there's always exceptions. So the mindset evolves. And I think that as you get older, you start looking at your future self more and more as a closer friend than a stranger. I was reading this article in psychology that they talk about the fact that when you're young, you can't really imagine your future self as something concrete. It's almost like if you were

Inga Timmerman (05:42)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Aline Silva (05:45)
It's hard to commit to making sacrifices today for that future person because that person is a stranger. You don't even know who that is. And then as you get older, we develop this ability to see our future selves more concretely. You have a better idea of who you are and what you want to do. And then it becomes easier to make sacrifices now for that future self because you're seeing a friend, you're seeing somebody real up there in the future. So I think

Inga Timmerman (05:51)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (06:10)
It evolves in a way where making sacrifices for the future person becomes a lot easier. You don't think twice about, it's not just money. It could be eating healthier, taking care of your body, saving more money because you know that day is coming sooner than, rather than later. So I think, I do think as you get older, when we're young, we think we know everything. Yes. I can die tomorrow, YOLO.

Inga Timmerman (06:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Neeka Miremadi (06:27)
rather than later.

Aline Silva (06:34)
And then as you get older, you're like, okay, that's, it's time to do a little bit more than the match that the company does.

Inga Timmerman (06:37)
It is time to maximize my 401k. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Neeka Miremadi (06:45)
So throughout this journey that you've described, was there one financial decision that you are very proud of and maybe one that you regret as well?

Aline Silva (06:55)
Yeah, I think I'm really proud of the fact that since I got my first job making minimum age at, I don't know, was it 17, 18, even before graduating, I always took advantage of an employer match of 401k. I'm very proud of that. In a way, I saw that distant person somehow and I said to myself, okay, if they're giving me 3%, then I can do 3%. And I think the worst financial decision that I've made was thinking that that was enough.

Inga Timmerman (07:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Aline Silva (07:26)
And now putting more. You're approaching your 30s and you're looking at your balance and then your lifestyle and you're like, okay, mean, 4%, 6 % is not always enough, depending on where your career takes you. Of course, if you make loads of money, then maybe that 4 % will be enough. But for most of us that have incremental raises in our income,

Inga Timmerman (07:26)
Mmm. yeah.

Neeka Miremadi (07:27)
I love it.

Inga Timmerman (07:40)
Yep.

Aline Silva (07:51)
You got to look at, you got to talk to a financial planner, I think, and calculate what you need for the future. Because certainly for me, that 3%, 4%, 6 % that I did in my early 20s, it was not going to cut it.

Inga Timmerman (08:04)
And for most people it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. That was a great example, like your future you thinking about your future you and your in the mid to late twenties. Yep. All right. So I'm going to switch gears a little bit and go back to the PhD years because what we didn't say so far is that

Aline Silva (08:06)
I don't know, you're the expert, you tell me. I don't know.

You

Neeka Miremadi (08:18)
Yeah.

Inga Timmerman (08:25)
After two or three years, you decide that the PhD is not the path you want to follow. And unlike other students who just push through it just to graduate, you decided, I'm going to do something else. So walk us through the financial decision of deciding that the PhD is not the right path for you.

Aline Silva (08:42)
Yeah, you know, it's kind of interesting because in hindsight, I see it now that it was the right decision for me. But while it made the decision, I'll be transparent. I wasn't sure. There was a lot of shame in quitting. think society puts a stigma that if you've struck something, you have to finish, especially in American culture. If you you realign yourself and your goals, you're quitting.

Inga Timmerman (08:55)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (09:10)
And it was very difficult at the time. I made the decision with a bit of a leap of faith. I wasn't sure that it was the right decision. In hindsight, I think I do. I think it was the right decision. And it was the same way that I came in, because I had been laid off, I left. One of the big reasons why I decided to leave is because the job market started to turn and I was approached by a recruiter to go back to the very volatile industry that I

Inga Timmerman (09:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (09:40)
that I had left to make very good money in a local company. So my life would be comfortable. The commute was very good. It was next door to where I lived as well. And I said, you know what? Why am I working this hard to do something that I wasn't even sure that I wanted? Now, mind you, I was excited about becoming a professor. I wasn't excited about research. And that's something that I wish I knew.

Inga Timmerman (09:42)
Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (10:07)
about getting into academia is that the reason for you to get into academia, it's not because you want to teach only. It's because you are passionate about researching and becoming specialized in something very niche. I'm the kind of person that I like to know a little bit about everything and spending a month even on one topic bores me to death. Imagine two years writing a dissertation.

Inga Timmerman (10:09)
you

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (10:35)
I thought about, I completed most of my classes. I think I was maybe six credits away from completing my coursework. And I had to start brainstorming my dissertation with my advisor and the thought of sitting down for two years to write a dissertation just scared the hell out of me. So I started Googling percentage of PhD students that don't finish their dissertation and the statistics.

are sounding,

Inga Timmerman (10:55)
yeah.

Aline Silva (10:55)
it's really scary if you start looking at it. It's like 40 to 50 percent. And I convinced myself that it was one of those. Okay, so if I'm having these thoughts. And of course, I was seeing therapists on campus to try to sort it out. And she diagnosed me for the first time I heard about the single imposter syndrome. And I never heard of it until that time. And she said.

Inga Timmerman (10:59)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (11:20)
When I would talk to her about saying, I wish I'm not cut out for this. I'm not cut out for this. And she said, well, you passed all your classes, didn't you? Yes. Did any of your professors pull you aside and tell you that you're not cut out for this? Well, one did actually. He said that I have a hard time with higher levels of abstraction and maybe I'm better suited for industry. I did have one professor that said that to me, which is true. I do have a hard time with higher levels of abstraction.

Inga Timmerman (11:34)
Hahaha!

Aline Silva (11:47)
That professor in my year, the whole job offer, know, that little carrot dangling in front of me. And the way that I went into it and I people like Inga and others that they really did do research. They liked sitting in front of a computer and writing papers and they produced papers like there's no tomorrow. And that was just not my forte. So that's why I had options and I decided.

Inga Timmerman (11:52)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (12:14)
to take one of those options.

Neeka Miremadi (12:16)
Thank you for being so honest. I feel like that's gonna help a lot of young academics out there.

Inga Timmerman (12:20)
Yes, and especially like you probably still had two more years to go when you decided this is not for me. So think about the opportunity of income you just took on, like way more money in these two years you're going to work instead of finishing the PhD just to say I finished it. And that's a very important decision, especially as we get older.

Aline Silva (12:39)
And you have to think about your future. You have to see that future self in two years, right? I thought about what is going to happen when I graduate. I really liked where I lived. Moving away was not an option. I had a daughter. I was a mom. My roots were here, locally here. I wouldn't even leave 40 minutes south since that was not good option for me. So you have to consider where do you want to live? What do you see your future?

Inga Timmerman (12:42)
Mm-hmm.

Neeka Miremadi (12:43)
Yup.

Aline Silva (13:02)
location, location, location. So I thought, okay, if I graduate, what are the chances, know, academic incest, right? Like, what are the chances this university is going to hire me? No. For me, even driving south 45 minutes was not an attractive option. I had a partner, you know, that ended up marrying and I'm still married to this day. So that all of these combined in hindsight is easy to see that was the right choice because I couldn't have imagined picking up and leaving. My partner had a business here.

Inga Timmerman (13:08)
Yeah. Yeah, no, not happening. You're going to Kansas or somewhere else. Yeah.

Yes.

Aline Silva (13:31)
thriving business, I had a daughter here in middle school at the time, moving for me was not an option. So I said to myself, you know what, it's time to realign and let go of the shame and carve out a different future for myself. And that's what I did.

Inga Timmerman (13:45)
And now you've been out for over a decade. What do you wish you knew about academia before you signed up for a PhD? You already mentioned the research in general and also about money and academia in particular to make a better decision to even pursue that PhD.

Aline Silva (13:47)
Mm.

thought that professors had this amazing life, that they worked very few hours, and that they were all rich, and they made a lot of money. At that point, have to consider the age that you're talking about, your late 20s. The thought of six figures was, wow, six figures, and you think that's a lot of money. And obviously now I'm...

Inga Timmerman (14:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Aline Silva (14:25)
in my late 40s, mid 40s, and you can make six figures in corporate America. It's very reasonable. If you do your job and if you have your credentials corporate America, I think the potential for income is actually quite higher. Now, the lifestyle might be different. It might be more stressful.

Inga Timmerman (14:30)
And the industry is like, yeah.

Aline Silva (14:48)
I think you do have a lot of flexibility when you're a professor, in my opinion, from knowing a few professors still today at Captain Tosh. And there's a sense of refreshment every semester. You have that sense of renewal with a new group of students, with a new class, and you might switch classes from one class to another that you're teaching. So I think there's a lot of opportunity to stay within the same institution so you feel comfortable and you have that comfort.

Inga Timmerman (14:58)
Yep.

Yeah.

Aline Silva (15:13)
But you also have the excitement every every new semester in corporate America. You don't have that. I mean, you could. Every story is a story, unique story, at least in my in my story. If I want excitement. I have to switch industries, which I've done three times. Or switch jobs or take that promotion that comes with additional stress and academia. The excitement doesn't necessarily means more stress is pure excitement because you're getting a new batch of

Inga Timmerman (15:14)
you

Aline Silva (15:41)
lives that you can influence every semester.

Inga Timmerman (15:43)
Now, you've been in both academia and industry, so you can really compare. How do you compare the pay, the lifestyle a little bit you already mentioned, the flexibility, and the two of them, like when you put them side by side, what do you think?

Aline Silva (15:59)
think there's similarities in both. There are pros and cons in both. And a lot of it I've already mentioned. And it's not fair for me to give my full opinion of academia because I was in it for short two years. But I do think that there's eagles involved in both, that you have to learn how to navigate. People with big eagles, maybe a little more so in academia.

Then because I've also worked, this is the funny part. I've also worked a corporate job inside a university. I've also two corporate jobs inside two different institutions. Okay. So I had a job where I recruited international students inside my local institution here. So our office was inside the organization. I had to deal with the various deans, various, very political. And then I had another job as a business development person for.

Inga Timmerman (16:33)
yeah, I forgot about that, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Aline Silva (16:53)
Another institution where I'm supposed to forge partnerships with technology companies in the area to try to increase enrollment for engineering degrees. And boy, boy, very, very honest here, the eagles getting the way of getting business done. You have to be very political and learn to navigate, but then again, you find that in corporate America too, depending on the organization that you align yourself with. So it's funny to see the similarities.

Inga Timmerman (16:59)
Mm-hmm.

You

Aline Silva (17:20)
It's human beings in different networks and in different ecosystems, but at the end of the day, we're all human beings. So I think there are more similarities than differences, in my opinion. Completely different things, but when you look at the macro level, it's very similar. You're going to deal with people with different evils and you're going to have to learn how to navigate that and to get your job done.

Inga Timmerman (17:31)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.

And let me follow up on that and ask the next question kind of related to this. So what lessons have you learned or lessons others could learn from this transitioning process? Transitioning from either academia to industry, even maybe the other way around, what lessons could we look at to be able to make the decision or the transition easier?

Aline Silva (18:04)
I think introspection, right? You have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and then ask yourself, what do I want? Am I waking up every morning dreading the start of my day? Which happened to me when I was doing my PhD, every time I had to write a long paper. I didn't like writing papers. The language, the way that academics talk to each other, it's with this...

Inga Timmerman (18:22)
I'm get my friend's name first.

Aline Silva (18:28)
convoluted English and to me was very, very, my anxiety was through the roof. So I think introspection, you have to understand what are my strengths? What are my weaknesses? And the lesson here is, and instead of trying to overcome your weaknesses, how about building up on your strengths? We have this mindset of grit, grit, work hard, work hard. Inga knows how to play tennis. Maybe I should try to play tennis.

Inga Timmerman (18:44)
Huh?

Aline Silva (18:52)
Maybe I don't know how to play tennis. Maybe I'm a good swimmer and I thrive in the ocean swimming. We have to stop comparing ourselves and trying to overcome every single weakness that we have to become this better person. Life doesn't have to be that hard and maybe just build upon our strengths, whether it is in academia or in corporate America. Find something that you are good at and do a lot of that and then success will come.

Inga Timmerman (19:08)
Mm-hmm.

Neeka Miremadi (19:16)
So

what I'm hearing is that self-awareness is very, important.

Aline Silva (19:21)
Absolutely, absolutely. You've got to ask yourself the hard questions.

Neeka Miremadi (19:26)
So with all this, this talk about being self aware and being introspective and, identifying what's important to you, what is success to you then? So when you were thinking about all this stuff, what was your idea of success?

Aline Silva (19:42)
Success? The idea of success, I think, varies just like your mindset about money at different stages in your life. Today, you're asking me what success is for me. Today, success is having time. Having time to do the things that I like that are outside of work without worrying about not having enough money.

Neeka Miremadi (19:52)
Yes.

Hmm.

Aline Silva (20:06)
to cover my bills, to save for my future self, and to put food on the table. I think time is invaluable. So what I mean by that is that now I'm not looking to make the most amount of money. I'm looking to work the least amount of hours for the most amount of money so that I can enjoy the things that I enjoy because I'm 46. And you realize that time is really the most important.

Inga Timmerman (20:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (20:34)
thing that you have without time, nothing else matters. You've got to have time to enjoy your little day-to-day mini pleasures. So to me, the success now is not money. It's having time, free time, leisure time, rest time.

Inga Timmerman (20:49)
Mm-hmm.

Neeka Miremadi (20:50)
Okay. And so does this work into your mindset of just always kind of being curious and growing? Is this, you consider this like part of the growth and part of the curiosity of like, what can my life look like if I prioritize time as a moniker of success?

Aline Silva (21:08)
It's so funny that you asked this question because it's a beautiful thing when you have time, that's when you dream and that's when good ideas come up and then you turn and you can sometimes even monetize on those ideas. But if you don't have the time to dream, I'm not talking about having time to sit here, you know, and just like lay looking at my ceiling when you have time that you're not doing the busy work, then you can really get creative.

Inga Timmerman (21:21)
Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (21:35)
and be curious and explore other opportunities and have different streams of income. For example, there's nothing wrong with that. We're having different streams of income doing things that you're putting your talents to work and trying to monetize on your talents. So you need time to strategize and to dream big.

Neeka Miremadi (21:54)
love how you said that because

I actually read a book a couple years ago, it called Bored and Brilliant, and the author spoke about how you need time to just, actually be creative. The most creative ideas come from boredom, so you need to, if you want to be creative, then you have to set aside time to literally just sit and stare at the grass or stare at the ceiling.

Inga Timmerman (22:00)
Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (22:14)
Exactly. And

you know, we in this country, think one out of three of us experienced depression and anxiety. And there are recent studies that have been done that say that the antidote for anxiety, if you're not occupying your mind with anxiety, they've done MRI, know, brain images of our brains, MRI studies that shows that creativity.

Inga Timmerman (22:31)
you

Aline Silva (22:36)
When you put your mind to work on creative things, then you stop being anxious. You can't experience both at the same time, actually. You can't be creative and anxious at the same time. It's kind of a, this is a study that I read. Don't, it's not my opinion. It's not my opinion. It was a study that I read that one great antidote for anxiety is creativity. There are many antidotes. There's research that says that kindness, I did a Ted talk on this, that kindness,

Inga Timmerman (22:49)
Don't quote me on it. Yeah.

Neeka Miremadi (22:50)
You're like, it's not my study.

Aline Silva (23:03)
And altruism is a great antidote for anxiety. There's many exercises, of course. Some people say that exercise, I try to do that a lot. But when I came across the creativity, it surprised me because I would never put those two together.

Inga Timmerman (23:18)
Well, let's turn it now to more money related topics.

Neeka Miremadi (23:21)
Yes, we've covered life. Let's go back to money because this is academics and their money. Money is unfortunately...

Aline Silva (23:22)
All right.

Inga Timmerman (23:23)
Yeah.

Aline Silva (23:27)
Money is life.

Inga Timmerman (23:28)
Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Aline Silva (23:30)
They've been lying to us. Money does make you happy.

Neeka Miremadi (23:33)
It certainly helps,

Aline Silva (23:34)
buys you time.

Inga Timmerman (23:36)
Yep.

Neeka Miremadi (23:36)
as we've learned from the way you've articulated it. I loved it. So have you ever negotiated your salary or any benefits? And if you have, how was that experience? Was it uncomfortable? Did you get pushback?

Aline Silva (23:50)
I had the worst boss that I had in my life. was the worst man on this planet. I'm not going to say names, obviously. The worst boss. I quit. But the only job that I quit on the spot and I walked out always told me that everything in life is negotiable. So if I could take one thing away from that man is that, yes, everything in life is negotiable. And I'm not the greatest at it. After I had that job, I did get better. But what I've learned personally that has worked for me is it

Inga Timmerman (23:56)
you

Aline Silva (24:17)
Anytime that I really want something that I'm negotiating, I don't tend to do as well. If I'm okay, not getting it, I talk myself out of even wanting that thing and say, I just got to negotiate for the hell of it, but I don't really want it, whether it is a job, I could do better. I'm just going to show up in a suit and see what happens, but I could do better. That's not really.

Inga Timmerman (24:23)
Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (24:39)
When I don't have an emotional attachment to the thing, the very thing that I'm negotiating, or if I do, I have to talk myself out of it, that's when I do better. I think that the mindset of I'm willing to lose it, it is okay if I don't get it, it is okay if I lose this, it helps you negotiate better because that has been my experience.

Inga Timmerman (24:53)
Mm-hmm.

Do you tend to negotiate when you get a new job?

Aline Silva (25:04)
Yes. Yes. You, nobody should ever take the job offer that they give you. I think everybody should always try to negotiate. If not the salary, then the days off. If not the days off, then the amount of days that you're in the office. If not that, then maybe your bonus percentage of your salary, try to negotiate something. They want you as much as you want them. If you've gotten to a point where you were

Inga Timmerman (25:18)
Yeah.

Aline Silva (25:30)
where you have an interview and they've made an offer, they want you.

Inga Timmerman (25:34)
I am all about it. I agree with you 100%. I'm surprised how many people just don't take the offer on the spot, especially in academia. Here's the thing, no, they all expected to come back and ask for more. Yeah.

Neeka Miremadi (25:34)
That's nice way of looking at it.

Yeah, I think

Aline Silva (25:45)
Yeah.

Neeka Miremadi (25:46)
for younger, you know, professionals or professors trying to get into it, maybe their first job post grad, it's hard to kind of say, hey, this is my value. I know I'm worth this much because you don't have, X amount of years under your belt. So, I mean, do you have any specific advice for new PhDs maybe like how to, believe that you have that value that you're negotiating for?

Aline Silva (26:09)
I I don't know how it is because I haven't applied for an academic job ever because when I did teach undergraduate classes, it's because I was a student. So there was no negotiation there. was getting my stipend and that was it. But I would say there's always a... It's okay to ask. If you're uncomfortable asking for a particular figure, it's okay to ask. What is the range for this position? Right? Like, it's okay to ask.

What is the range? I know everybody has a range. What is the range for this position? Because I think that I bring X, Y and Z to the table. And if you have to answer, I should be at the high range. Now, you have to know your worth. You have to know your worth.

Inga Timmerman (26:47)
Thank you.

Yeah.

Do you think academics, from what you know, are compensated fairly?

Aline Silva (27:01)
From what I know, I don't know. See, that's the problem. I don't know. I don't walk around asking my PhD professors how much they make. How much they make, I don't know. So I've been, unfortunately, I'm not equipped to answer this one for you guys because I haven't been in the biz for over a decade. So I really don't know. I would assume so because the turnover is low. You don't see...

Inga Timmerman (27:07)
You don't? Because we do all the time.

Well, I-

Aline Silva (27:24)
professors quitting every day. So I would assume that they, it's a balance, right? It's a balance sometimes I've considered, I've taken pay cuts. I've gone to jobs where I'm making 20 to 30 % less money because I knew I was going to have less stress and I knew the job was going to be a little more enjoyable. So it depends. It's a balance between what you get out of it and what you put in. it depends on.

Inga Timmerman (27:45)
And it also very much depends on the field of study. Like it's very unfair to

ask you as a business PhD compared to somebody who is doing theory, for example, if it's comparable. So field of study really matters. Because if you don't, yeah.

Aline Silva (27:54)
Yes, yes.

And here's

a question for you, Inga. are an academic. If you feel like you are not fairly compensated, can you adjust your hours on your own? you have more? know, then you would get, maybe I'm going into uncharted waters here and talking things that are not to be spoken, but I would think then adjust the input. If you think...

Inga Timmerman (28:20)
Yes, and it depends very much on

who you are, boss and where you are, but like, always, we always tell our clients like, this is a paycheck. This is it. Collect your paycheck and do the minimum amount of work.

Aline Silva (28:29)
I, thank you.

I'm trying to say this in a very professional way. If you think that the output is not fair, then adjust the input and find something else to do on the side. If you don't have.

Inga Timmerman (28:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

Perfect answer for me, Nika, to follow up on that.

Neeka Miremadi (28:45)
was gonna say I have us

that's the perfect segue into the next question, which is, what are your thoughts on academics monetizing their expertise outside of their institution? Yeah.

Aline Silva (28:56)
I'm all for it. Why not?

Inga Timmerman (28:58)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Aline Silva (28:58)
They don't own you. They own your hours and your commitment to your deliverables inside your classroom and your research that you're supposed to put out. Anything you do outside of that time, it's yours to do it as you please.

Neeka Miremadi (29:04)
Right.

as long as you're checking the boxes of your obligations and your responsibilities, then why not?

Aline Silva (29:16)
Exactly.

Why not? All for it. I actually think it's healthy because the students look up to academics. You're going to make a better impact and you're going to influence lives more so if you are successful outside of the university as well. I've had professors that never set foot in a corporation in business because my background is I had an MBA and my undergrad was...

Also business. So in business, I'm talking to somebody that, you know, not to offend professors, but those who can do teach, right? Like we still think like that sometimes. So when you have a professor that is killing in both worlds, then I think that you have a lot more influential power and you can be a greater source of inspiration for the younger generation.

Inga Timmerman (30:02)
Mm-hmm.

Neeka Miremadi (30:03)
I agree. Inga was the best professor

and I think it's because she's awesome one, but also she had practical experience and so everything she said was...

Inga Timmerman (30:11)
Yeah, I if you teach

business, that is such a big deal. Like it's very different than, I don't even know, I'm making this up, but theoretical physics. Like maybe you don't need to do something else, but if you're doing business, it's very hard, financial planning, it's very hard to teach you how to be a financial planner. You've never worked a day in your life.

Neeka Miremadi (30:20)
you

Aline Silva (30:26)
think it applies to everything because I would love to have a physics professor that build a rocket. In Ninga, not only killed it in business, but she has multiple personalities. She has multiple lives. The more versatile you are in the classroom, the more your students are going to relate and look up to you. I think that's powerful.

Inga Timmerman (30:31)
Yeah.

Yeah, multiple lives.

Neeka Miremadi (30:53)
Okay, what advice would you give to early career academics about managing their money? Because you were in that space, so I think that you have some really valuable insight.

Inga Timmerman (31:01)
Yeah.

Aline Silva (31:01)
Yeah.

think I unequivocally would say this, make savings and expense. And my financial advisor told me that. Make savings and expense and have a budget. I think that the least amount of money that you have, the more you need to have a budget. And it's tough, but you got to do it. So, and make savings and expense.

Inga Timmerman (31:20)
Yeah.

Aline Silva (31:26)
Find a way to allocate that consistently to your future self.

Inga Timmerman (31:30)
And if, yeah.

Neeka Miremadi (31:30)
and it could be small, right?

Aline Silva (31:32)
Yeah,

it's all perspective, it's all percentage, but I think it's important to have a budget.

Neeka Miremadi (31:32)
It doesn't have to be a-

Inga Timmerman (31:36)
Yeah. And for the people who are listening who

don't know what this means, it's pretty much take a part of your money coming in and just send it to savings before you do anything else. So you treat this as an expense.

Neeka Miremadi (31:48)
Yep, so you don't see that money coming in. You just see it going out and you're like, I don't have that in my checking to spend. That's not real right now.

Inga Timmerman (31:55)
Now let's go to some imaginary questions. If you had all the money in the world, would you still be doing what you're doing right now?

Aline Silva (32:04)
I do a lot of things, Zynga, but if the question is, would you still be doing what you do right now from nine to five?

Inga Timmerman (32:04)
Hmm.

Like paycheck!

Yeah. Yeah. No. No.

Aline Silva (32:14)
No, I'll have to be honest. No, no, I love

my job. You know, this is going to become public. Full disclaimer, I love my job. I feel very valued at the organization that I work for. And I think my work is high impact. I am a sales operations manager and I help drive sales campaigns for partnerships that it's the revenue engine for our company. So I think I have an awesome job and I'm blessed to have a lot of flexibility and be very

Inga Timmerman (32:22)
Yeah.

Aline Silva (32:43)
very fairly treated and compensated and I love it. But if I had unlimited income, I think I would focus more on philanthropy. I wouldn't give all the money away, but I would give all my time away to helping others. I think we could use more people that are devoted to making this society, to make it start small, start small, start with your small little community. And then

Inga Timmerman (32:57)
Mm-hmm.

Aline Silva (33:10)
have that ripple effect. And of course, if I had unlimited financial freedom, I think that's what I would do in my life.

Inga Timmerman (33:17)
Mm-hmm.

That's us. All right. One more question just for fun.

Aline Silva (33:22)
Yes, I'm scared. Hopefully I won't get fired after this last

Neeka Miremadi (33:22)
one more so no it's it's silly

Inga Timmerman (33:24)
Yeah, yeah,

Neeka Miremadi (33:27)
the last fun question is, what's the best and the worst thing that you spent money on in this past month? And this is just his last 30 days.

Inga Timmerman (33:34)
last month in the last 30 days.

Aline Silva (33:37)
This is easy. We just bought a house not too long ago and I am obsessed with plants. That's the best thing. It brings me so much joy to wake up and look at my plants. It's the best thing that I spent my money on, but it's also the worst because they die.

Neeka Miremadi (33:51)
no.

Inga Timmerman (33:52)
Like a real

plans?

Aline Silva (33:53)
I have a garden, I've been to gardening, so I'm spending all this money trying to buy beautiful plants and then three days go by and they're like, dead. But I keep trying, I'm not giving up yet. Maybe I should start buying seeds and let them grow just like money. Buy the seed and have the patience and wait for them to grow exponentially and eventually they'll have a beautiful garden. They're much cheaper. way cheaper.

Neeka Miremadi (34:09)
You

Inga Timmerman (34:09)
Yeah.

It would be way cheaper probably too and it'll take much longer to dye it,

yes.

Aline Silva (34:21)
but

a thousand percent cheaper. The seeds, you can buy seeds for pennies versus hundreds for plants. So I think that I need an intervention because I spent, if my financial advisor knew how much money I've been spending on plants, she would slap my hands.

Inga Timmerman (34:26)
Yes.

She cannot relate to this problem because

she wants nothing to do with any plants Yeah, yes Yeah, is correct. Yes, and in full disclosure Aline is our client for many years and I just got a puppy and I spent $3,000 on training this puppy

Aline Silva (34:40)
At least it's not pets, okay? Pets could be more expensive. Some people go out and get puppies.

Neeka Miremadi (34:47)
Some people.

Aline Silva (34:57)
There you go. There you go.

Neeka Miremadi (34:58)
That's all for today's episode of academics and their money. If you've got questions, suggestions for future topics, or just want to say hello, you can reach me at nika, N-E-E-K-A at attainablewealthfp.com. Inga's is the same, but just with Inga at attainablewealthfp.com. Or you can check out our website, attainablewealthfp.com. Don't forget to hit follow so you don't miss out on future episodes. We'll continue to talk about all things money and academia.

Thank you, Aline, for your time. We really appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed the process. Great. Well, have a great day, and until next time, everyone, keep making smart choices.

Aline Silva (35:30)
You're welcome. This was fun.

Inga Timmerman (35:34)
Yeah.