EPD's: Helpful or Misleading

In this episode of 'Around the Chute' the hosts delve into the intricacies of Expected Progeny Differences (EPDs) and their influence on livestock selection. They discuss the unpredictability and sometimes misleading nature of EPDs, the importance of phenotypic traits, and share personal anecdotes about calving, heifer management, and foot traits. The role of marketing, both traditional and digital, in livestock sales is debated along with innovative ideas for interactive catalogs. The conversation also touches on generational differences in cattle breeding and the impact of genomic data on cattle selection. Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize the value of relationships, networks, and honest communication in the cattle industry.

Transcript

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:00

Hit the button. We're recording guys. Here we go.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:03

Oh boy. Welcome into around the shoot. We're talking about the words Vince uses on a daily basis these days. Vince. Vince, are there any words you've got cooked up for the episode today that you're just gonna throw out? There I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:17

Well, all I can say is it's gonna be a word salad.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:22

is it gonna be excellent?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:24

for me though. It'll be excellent.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:26

It'll be excellent.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 0:27

So how about you guys limiting me to words that cost under a dollar. That's what Vince was just saying. I couldn't use no

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:33

Well, you, you gotta dumb it down for me, buddy.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 0:37

All right. Let me

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:38

You gotta remember I was, I was not a scholar.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 0:41

yeah. Okay.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:42

You know, we, I think at, at this point, all of our listeners have read your sail book and the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:48

No,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:49

The news is out. Ladies and gentlemen, Vince Santini is educated.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:54

no.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 0:55

Oh yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:57

I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:57

yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 0:57

the, the, oh me,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:00

Can, can we move on?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:02

the, uh, the facade is over. We know who you really are.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:07

The

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:08

Oh heck,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:08

Letter's incredible. The Tony letter's incredible,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:11

Amy helped me with it. Amy helped me with it. Amy's the, the shining star, not me. I say what I, I say what I say in my words and she makes me sound smart. She fixes it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24

she

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24

fixes it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:25

and then she puts excellence.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:27

She fixes it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:28

she

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:28

Yes.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:29

upon. It was well written, it wasn't overdone, it was just, it was touching and it was heartfelt, and it was cool. I thought it was really special.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:38

Well, I appreciate it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:40

I was happy.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:40

So you're.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:41

to read it. I was done reading. I, I didn't read the cover letter.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:45

It's too much, too long.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:47

words. It was too much words.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:49

Two L two LDR.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:50

TLDR. Yeah. Too long. Didn't read.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:53

You know what? You know what in your sale book is not TLDR

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:57

What?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:58

Tell us about the cover.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 2:00

The cover's a throwback from, uh, 1996. Uh, we wanted to do something different and I was going through a bunch of old sale catalogs and that was one of our favorites. Um, years ago, Jody Johnson used to have a publication called The Angus Hub, and um, she, I don't know if she did it herself or she had an artist come up with that. I've actually got a picture of it hanging in my, uh, office, a framed picture of it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 2:29

the, did you guys have to do anything to the color scheme or was it already that, that exact

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 2:35

The only thing they did, the girls at Angus were able to scan that and then lift the wordage, somehow delete all the old words from the 96 and put all the new stuff on it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 2:51

That is pretty neat though.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 2:53

was pretty cool. Yeah, they did a great job.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 2:56

Did you have to send them? I'm

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 2:59

I might keep it forever. I might keep it forever.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 3:01

did you have to send them like a original sale book or they just, you sent'em a picture of that and they

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:06

I sent'em a picture of it. Yeah. How cool is that?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 3:10

Way cool. Incredibly

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:11

Oh, well now wait a minute. They could have found it in the archives. Yeah, they could have maybe found it. I don't know. I don't know if Angus Media did that then,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:22

I don't know that they have'em archived that far back.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:25

the hub, like the, the hub might have done it

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 3:28

Mm

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:29

in 96.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:30

probably have a copy of it in the dungeon at, at in St. Joe, but they, they, they don't

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:35

I would, I wouldn't doubt if Tom Burke had a copy of it somewhere

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 3:40

sure.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:40

bet he does.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 3:41

when you said there's a picture in your house, is that like a commissioned piece of

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:46

in my office.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 3:47

and Okay, in your office, your

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:48

Yeah,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 3:49

Hey, called him and that's like oil painting or watercolor or

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:53

no.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 3:54

no.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:55

I don't know that it's an oil painting. It's just a picture.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 3:59

I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:00

Not, not everything has to be fancy, Joe. It does have a fancy frame around it. I'll send you a picture of it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 4:05

Send me a picture.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:06

that tree? Is it a weeping willow?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 4:08

That's what it looks like.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:09

Do y'all have any of those in Tennessee?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:11

I put one in the front yard of the sail barn. I actually had two and the wind blew one of'em over there. Used to be one on the creek down here. And a flood. A flood. Got it. Years ago. So

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:24

uh, my grandparents had one of those in their backyard, I'm pretty sure growing up and I remember that tree, I always had these little squiggly little things that would fall out of it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:31

did they have to, uh, is that what the, they had to go get their own switch when they were in trouble, they'd go get it off of that tree.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:39

I never got in trouble when I was younger. I was a good kid. I was

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:45

Yeah, right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:46

I was, I was pretty tame, you know?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:48

I'm gonna believe that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:49

Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 4:50

is that the tree that the Shady Brook logo came from and like that's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:54

Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 4:55

that Shady Brook, like a brook that goes through there, or you

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 4:58

Yeah. So we got a, a creek that goes all the way through the middle of the farm. And I want to think it was Jim Hinton, you remember JO Hinton?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 5:06

No, I don't.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:07

Uh, he would've ran around years ago. He was a Tennessee guy. He would've ran around years ago with like Joe, bill Ming and all them. And, uh, I think they were all just sitting around one night talking and he came up with it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 5:19

Wow,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:20

So

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:21

that neat?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:22

that's the story I was told.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:23

now 40 some odd years later, the, the shady brick name is on your pocket t.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:30

Yeah. How about that? Come on,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:32

Yeah. Hey, should we bring up the merch deal? Should we talk about how, uh, because by the time we drop this episode, it's prob we're probably gonna have merch that's available to buy. not gonna guarantee anything,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:45

you buy a pocket?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:47

Absolutely. Absolutely. So we're gonna have a shirt that's called the Vince, and it's a little bit more money to get that pocket on there.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:53

The,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:54

The Vinny, the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:55

the,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 5:55

I'm sure that can be arranged too. Vinny. The Vinny. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, we're gonna have some merch available pretty quick. I don't know, I don't know if you guys are as excited as I am, but I think it's gonna be awesome. Um, they're really cost effective and, and the best thing about it is you order it and it, and it should be shipped to your door within a week. And

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:17

we,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:18

go ahead

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:19

can we get a, can we get her Wild, A printed wild rag for Joe with the logo on it?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:24

Actually, I think we can only get Conchos Conchos. Con shows, we'll put those on there too. They might be a little out some people's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:33

we'll get a grill, diamond Grill on our, on our,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:36

Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:36

on our people.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:38

Yeah. I've got enough teeth to put at on. Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 6:42

I wanna address something there. I mean, the hard part was we had so many people reach out to us. Jackson sent me a couple renditions or ad copies. Thank you Jackson too. What, what are you doing? Am I too

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 6:54

Get closer. Yeah. You're too far away. Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 6:56

but Jackson sent me a couple, um, just kind of some proofs and Corbin was in a better spot. He has somebody he has a relationship with. We had so many people reach out to us and then it was like, oh, now I feel terrible choosing who we're gonna choose. So thank you to the person that Corbin has a relationship with that's gonna help us with this project. We really need a lot of handholding and they're doing that. And thank you to everyone else who offered their services. Um, the proximity there just worked for everybody and, and it's a project. Corbin can kind of take the lead on. So thank you Corbin for that too, by the way.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 7:30

Yeah, it was Brian. Brian and, uh, and Steelwater, and his wife. They're the ones that are gonna handle that force. And yeah, it was ultimately one of those deals where it was like, we're doing this. Just lock it in. it, it was one of those things that was kind of hanging over my head. It was something I knew I needed to do and something that I knew that, that we had talked about, Brian stayed on me enough where I was like, you know what? Let's just get this, let's, let's get something knocked out. And he's actually coming, to my place from Stillwater next week with a proof and everything. So, uh, I appreciate the legwork he's done to get that all rolling.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:08

I was fixing to just print a logo and laminate it and glue it on my shirt. I was, that's where I was at. I was that close. Thank you, Brian.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:19

you probably could have, it would've worked.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:21

Well, this would look a lot better. I was gonna actually glue it on one of Joe's hats.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:27

Yeah. Lucy

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 8:28

I got new hats coming.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:30

Lucy has one of those cricket things, and she could have made them, but she's not set up to do it very

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:36

This is,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:36

we could do like one order a week

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:39

you can do, you can do a shirt for Myah and that's about it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:42

and don't wash it because

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:44

And don't, yeah, don't watch

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 8:46

Corbin, why? Why does your background not look the same as it usually looks?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:51

I'm traveling.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 8:54

Where you at?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:54

who can you not hear?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 8:56

Joe. He's so far away.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 8:58

on top. The microphone literally on top of it. I don't know what's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 9:01

Okay.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 9:01

on, but go ahead.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 9:03

Yeah. I brought, uh, threw David Cray,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 9:06

Thank you.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 9:07

on the trailer. I just wanna thank him for Oh, you were telling Vince. Thank you. My bad. I wanted to, I wanted to. Come up here and look around a little bit. And so I threw his bull on the trailer and, and came up to David's place and, and went through his cows and threw his bulls. And um, then went to triple C and I'm just basically taking my time, getting home. I told Milah that, or I told Milah that I was going a bull and she said, well, where are you going? I said, well, I'm going to more than one state. And she said, well, what states are you going to? well, I'm going to Kansas, I'm going to Nebraska, I'm going to Iowa, I'm going to South Dakota. I'll be through all those states. And she said, wait, you're going to Kansas? That's where Dorothy's from. I'm like, yeah, that's where Dorothy's from. Okay, well go find her and bring her home. So tomorrow on my way home, I'm gonna go stop at the, uh, of Oz museum. So I actually have to go outta the way, like an hour, but to just to see that smile on her face. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be worth it. And it's, it's gonna be priceless. She's,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:11

Send pictures. Send us pictures.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:14

She, uh, she's gotten into this deal where she just loves like older movies. Like she loves Willy Wonka with Gene Wilder and, uh, Matilda that movie from the nineties, which is one that I watched when I was younger. Um, and then Wizard of Oz obviously is a classic. So, um, she's really upset that Judy Garland's dead really upset about it. She's like, well, what's she doing now? Well, Myla actually, she died of drug abuse at age of 40,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:43

Oh my God.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:45

yeah. Yeah, yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:47

What the,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:48

yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:49

I think maybe you shouldn't be alone with Myla sometimes.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:53

she's gonna be a,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:54

Wrong information.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:56

She's gonna have a lot of knowledge. She's gonna be a smart

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 10:58

I, I can see them watching it in school. And do you know she died of drug abuse?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:03

Yeah. The. She's, she's talked about Elvis for a couple years.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:08

Oh my god.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:09

He's our favorite musical artist. Why does my kid enjoy vintage people and

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 11:14

Did you, did you tell her? What'd you tell her about Elvis? Did you tell her that he was just stuck with the astronauts that had been up there for eight months?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:22

That is not on me. That one's not on me. That one's on Lucy. They were at a restaurant and they had Elvis paintings on the wall. And so Milo was like, Hey, I know who that is, that's Elvis. And my, and Lucy, for whatever reason, was like, yeah, Milo, don't be like Elvis. He did drugs. So,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:39

they found him dead laying over his commode.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:42

Yeah, he was, he died taking a dump if you wanna know the truth.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:45

Oh my God.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:47

So, Vince, I gotta ask you, what does Joe's video look like right now?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:51

It looks like greenish.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:55

It's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:55

looks like he's an alien.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 11:57

you want me to

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:57

Honestly,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 11:58

on like last time?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 11:59

no.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:00

His. So on my end, it's like three minutes back,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 12:06

Really?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:06

I swear.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:07

What do you mean?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:08

right now, but he is not laughing in real life.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 12:11

That's a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:11

no, it's, it's fine. It's your phone, it's your, see, if you had a Lenovo, you wouldn't have these problems,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:17

No. Yeah. Need to upgrade. It is. Time to upgrade. So

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 12:21

huh?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:22

what has been going on in Tennessee lately?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 12:24

Holy moly.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:26

We had some of them, their Nader, you know what a Nader is?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:30

I know what a tow Nader

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 12:32

It's a tornado. We had a lot of tornadoes around, um, actually Mickey Allen at Sweet Gum, it went between one of his farms and his neighbor's farm and tore up some stuff. I don't, I don't think it tore up anything at Mickey's. Um, but like, that's less than 10 miles from here. I think there was a couple of'em in Florence, um, which is about 20 miles from here. There was a lot, a lot of bad weather. I know. Um, Alabama got hit hard. I know. Uh, Randall had some damage and man, it was just, it was, they were calling it like a catastrophic storm that was coming. Luckily all we had was some flooding and nothing major and we can fix it all. I mean, we'll clean the fences up, hang, uh, hang some water gaps back up and, um. We'll be good to

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:29

So

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:30

fix the roads.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:31

do you take those water gaps? Do you, do you do anything to them in preparation for a bunch of rain?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:37

Nah, all it is is a, it's a hot wire strung across and it's got dangly chains on it

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:44

Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:44

and most everything will go right through'em.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:47

Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:48

but if the water gets high enough and a log or something comes down, it will actually hit the wire that they're hung from and snap it. So it's just a piece of high tinsel wire. We just pop it right back together. It's not a big deal.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 13:59

Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 14:00

Yeah. Easy, easy.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 14:02

Easy

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 14:02

Corbin, do you have, do you have water gaps you take down or no. Corbin?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 14:08

Me?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 14:09

Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 14:09

talking to Vince.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 14:10

No Corbin. Do you have water gaps?'cause you asked him.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 14:13

we do have water gaps and it's one of those deals where they're in some really, really high timber places and so, um, yeah. We don't really have to take'em down. It's, they need to be repaired every once in a while, but, uh, it's not one of those deals that I go check every time it rains.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 14:33

I'd say we, we have a couple on a couple different places that are set up. When the river gets really high, it'll blow'em out on purpose. We have it where the wire will break and it blows out, and then the whole thing like works like a hinge, and then we just gotta collect the wire, bring it back up and stretch it. But if we made it tight to both sides, it'd pull out the corners. It'd cause cra crazy issues. But those water gaps are set up to blow out like that?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 14:58

What are they like? Are they solid?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 15:01

No,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 15:02

Like there's a lot of guys around here that are trying to make a swinging one, and we've made swinging ones before, but they're just so heavy and they're too big. Bulky.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 15:09

I've seen all kinds of them, like these ones just operate almost like a, just a wire gate, like, you know, just a, a wire gate that you take off the hinges and, and or take off the hinges. Take off where it latches and then peel it back.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 15:22

Mm-hmm.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 15:23

seen somewhere people take like inch and a half gauge cable and run it across a creek, and then it has tin on the backside of some cattle

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 15:30

Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 15:32

And those will just kind of swing with the logs, and the logs will go under it. And usually those are pretty cool. But ours, the biggest ones we'd have at the end of the season, when you got cattle out of there, you just open up the water gaps. You just peel back the, peel back the fence. And then I have another one, like I said, that it's set up to break on purpose.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 15:51

Is it electric or barbed wire?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 15:53

it's barbed wire. It's barbed wire.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 15:55

got you.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 15:55

But I know that you're a, you're like a Gallagher rep or something, aren't you? Aren't you

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:01

Yeah,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 16:02

or you can, you use a lot of products?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:04

I am. Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 16:06

the store up here, I don't know if it's Gallagher or Stay Fix or one of those other companies, but they've got little sensors that are set up for areas that flood like that, where it won't short out your whole fence or something.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:17

Really?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 16:18

So

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:18

That's cool.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 16:18

them on? Yeah, and I don't know anything about'em'cause I don't use them, but they're set up for water gaps so that it doesn't short out your whole fence.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:26

Do you

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:27

used to have a few of those.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:28

Vince, any of your

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:29

No,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:30

or anything of that? No.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:31

generally no.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:33

Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:34

the way we make our gaps there, it is just a chain

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:37

Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 16:38

dangling. So, um, if the creek changes and it, um, so like one year, I, I got to notice in between one field in particular, the creek had shifted so they were too short on one side and they were too long on the other side. Well, the ones that were too long, we could just take'em up a link or two. The ones that were too short, we had to make a longer one, you know, put a new chain on it. But it's really not a big deal and it really works great, honestly.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 17:07

So

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 17:07

mean, like, I would even think that grass would get in those chain links, but they don't, like, they're just stay clean. If a log or a limb or something comes floating through there, they're just kind of spread outta the way and come right back. They're really nice. I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 17:21

it sounds like it. So when you said that you had some, like Randall had some issues or something, is that just like a shed had had a piece of tin fly off, or we're talking like leveled

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 17:30

No, like erosion, uh, water gaps, erosion ditches. Like some, I think he sent some pictures of maybe some ditches that I, I don't think would be worthy of a water gap. You would just have the fence and, you know, it normally wouldn't have that much water going through it, but they were flooded so bad and debris got on it and kinda laid some of his fences over and washed some of his roads out like it did here and stuff like that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 17:56

issue. We do have that issue here. Um, or

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 17:59

Your roads,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 18:01

I mean, it's crazy, our county if we'll get four inches of rain in an hour, but when that happens, not,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 18:10

no, you can't do anything.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 18:12

for that. And so it, water will go over the road and it will be impassable until that water quits running. Um, but that's pretty, that's pretty standard for us at this point is, is in the springtime and in the, in the certain times of year we're lobb to get really big rain at one time.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 18:29

Right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 18:30

Man, I just seeing all those tornadoes and everything, my heart goes out to those people because it's something that we, it's the fear we live with, um, know, in the certain times of the year. It's something we have to worry about every day, you know? Yeah. It doesn't even have to be on the radar for where I'm at. It could just, don't even have to know what's coming. Sometimes, sometimes the storm storm will just pop up and you'll be blown away. And so, definitely heart goes out to the people that are having to deal with the damage in the aftermath. And I'm glad I didn't hear a very of any, injuries or fatalities. Did you

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:04

I don't think I did either.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 19:06

I didn't, but I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:07

I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 19:07

pictures of, I think Mississippi, where it just looked leveled. And I don't know enough anymore about all this internet picture stuff, if it's fake or if it's AI generated or whatever, but it looked absolutely decimated. If we have any listeners down in that area that had a problem, let us know so we could direct some help accordingly. But, um, I haven't heard anything. Do you guys know

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:30

So

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:31

I do

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:32

go ahead.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:32

in, our friends in Para gold, uh,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:35

Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:36

which there's, there's quite a few of them. Arkansas Boys, they did have some damage. I think it missed, I tried to reach out to each one of them that I, that I thought of. Um, I don't know that I got got to all of'em, but I think they were all good. It just, it mainly hit ta, hit the city, hit the town

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 19:52

Oh, okay.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:53

and did some

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 19:54

A few years ago, a big one went through there.'cause I remember watching a video. A guy had videoed it, went through the town.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:00

Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:01

Toor said that they had'em all night long and were still having him the next morning all around him. So he's down south Mississippi.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 20:11

Then the livestock would generally be okay if they can kind of get away, right?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:16

Yeah, you just. Gotta hope they're gonna be there.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:18

unfortunately, that's not your priority at that time. You've gotta get your family safe. I know Vince went to his mom's and had his, had Amy's mom come over there and it's basically, it is all hands on deck. Let's keep our family safe. Safe. Um, and then, and then as soon as that storm passes, we will go, we'll go handle what we gotta

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:37

Yeah,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:37

that.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:38

we came, we came as soon as they said it was, the tornado threats were over. We came straight back and I was able to ride through in the daylight a little bit to see, so in in the movie Twister, there was a cow. You remember that?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 20:51

and a, and a fuel tanker or Cat

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:53

Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 20:54

I saw that with the,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 20:55

see the new twister?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 20:57

yeah, I didn't know what to think of it though.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:00

Uh, we didn't make it through it. Uh, actually, actually, I take that back. Lucy did. I got, I didn't, and I turned it off. I didn't, didn't jive with me because I literally like man. That happens here all the time. I ain't watching this.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:14

Was that real? What was that?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 21:15

the original twister was just a little more plausible. It was still bad stuff, but it was plausible. This other one was just a little, I don't know.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:23

on the new one at the very beginning, you've literally watched people get sucked into the tornado and you're like, I don't wanna watch that.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 21:30

Yeah, yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:31

What were you gonna say a second ago, Joe?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 21:34

I don't know. I'm sidetracked now and I think about that clip with Aunt May. That's my favorite part of Twister. the guy, they all coerce all their buddies to go over there for food. Like food, food.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:46

his, uh, the, what's the Philip Seymour Hoffman.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:49

Yes. He was an awesome actor.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:51

an awesome actor and along came Polly

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:54

Yes,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:55

funny.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 21:56

he sharded. Yeah, RainDance Make it rain. Did he ever even make one? He never made one.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 22:05

I remember what I was gonna say, Vince, so you, I got a snap from you that was way behind.'cause I was outta town and I wasn't paying attention to this stuff. You moved all your semen tanks or something. Where'd you take'em? You take'em to a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 22:16

I just, I put'em in the room where they belong.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 22:19

They,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 22:19

Oh,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 22:19

yeah, he

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 22:20

I,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 22:20

in from outside.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 22:22

we have a, we have a bench. No, we have a bench behind the, some bleachers and, and it's perfect height. So if you're ever shuffling seaming around or you're doing an inventory and it's long enough, we can just line'em all up there. So the laziness kicks in and we get to messing with one. So I bring one out and I set it on there, and then I. The next time I'm looking for this semen or whatever, oh, it's in that tank. Bring it out here. So I fished around, so they just stayed lined up on there and last night there's like an inner room of the building and I thought, yeah, I might ought to put them back in the room where they belong, just in case. You never know.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 23:04

uh, Joe, do you have more or less semen tanks than Vince has? Because I think I saw like eight in that video. How many you got, Vince?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 23:12

Uh, I got seven and a empty one. I mean, just one that I keep for a dumper to refill or fill a shipper and I have a shipper and then there's two more in other Blakes.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 23:25

How

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 23:26

So

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 23:26

have, Joe?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 23:27

I have

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 23:28

he pays somebody is what he does. He pays somebody to store it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 23:31

somebody. I need to because it's way too expensive. If, if we go and take'em to the welding shop, it's like, it's between five and 700 bucks to fill my tanks. And so I've got three of the great, great big ones. I've got two that are my favorites, which are like a little bit taller. I think they're 20, 25, something like that. They're a little wider mouth so you can see in them. Um, and I put tape on those. So I put like just mass tape on'em all the way around the mouth. And then I write on'em, and then I breed out of those ones because I don't like the little teeny tiny ones. Um, I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:05

What's the tape for? Wait a minute. What's the tape for?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 24:08

on it where a bull is,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:11

You don't have a sheet of paper.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 24:12

no, no.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:13

You don't have a sheet of paper,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 24:15

That's all color coded and everything. No, no, I don't, I don't, I, my semen inventory is a disaster. I just know

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:21

same.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 24:22

where it all kind of is and what we all kind of got and,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:26

right?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 24:27

but on as I'm breeding, no.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:29

something right now?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 24:31

Well,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:31

What

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 24:31

on what you're gonna petition.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:33

can we just put the bull's freaking name on top of

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:36

They're working on it. Most people do.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 24:39

Yeah. No, I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:39

wasn't on, his fellow was on his.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:42

I bought some, uh, SAV prosperity semen, uh, like two or three years ago, which I still have it. It doesn't even have anything on the top. It's just a blank cane. It

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:53

It don't have a number.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:54

doesn't have anything.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 24:55

That's because somebody shafted you and they bought, you bought it like 18th hand

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:01

Probably.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:01

been thawed.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 25:02

It rattled around in the bottom of somebody's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:04

Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 25:05

lottery tickets and cinnamon

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:07

Going, going back, you said it was 700 bucks to fill yours. You know what our friend Waylon told me in uh, Hawaii, how much it cost to fill one tank,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 25:19

I can't remember, but it was a lot.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:21

like over$900 to fill one tank.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 25:24

A small one too. I bred outta that tank. It's small. And, and he

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:29

That is insane.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 25:31

So he gathers up all his semen at like World West or

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:34

Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 25:34

or

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:35

I

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 25:35

it is that he's gathering it at that time and

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 25:37

think it was Hawkeye. I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 25:38

and whatever he doesn't use, they just throw away because they can't, they gotta try to. Now I think that there's, I can't remember. There was a young lady there who was super handy. She did a good job, Hailey. She was breeding and I think she bred some horses, worked for a horse repro facility and they were gonna start working with her on trying to store some or something like that. Um, but yeah, it's super expensive. It's super, super expensive. So I've got a lot of tanks though, Corbin, I do, I do have a lot of tanks and I do a poor job of inventory, that's for sure. And then I have a bunch of semens stored at other facilities that, that's way, way cheaper. And I, I've thought about just getting rid of all my tanks and having all my semen at one place and just one little breeding, one little breeding tank is all I thought about having honestly.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 26:25

the problem is, is you use a bull and then you've got four straws left from the year before,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 26:31

Mm-hmm.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 26:32

and you don't end up using the bull again. Sometimes you do. Sometimes you go back and use that bull and you don't wanna throw it away. then that semen ends up getting just tossed in, tossed into a canister, and it just sits there. So.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 26:43

then 10 years later you're like, oh my God, this is like gold. I still got four straws of this bull. He was awesome. I thought he sucked at the time

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 26:53

And do you guys

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 26:54

or,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 26:55

or he still sucks or he still sucks.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 26:58

or I should just dump this out, or, I think what I want to do, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take it out and I'm gonna wait till somebody's over at my house. I'm gonna take it out and go burn'em with it. Use it as a practical joke.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:11

Put it in a, to stir their coffee

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 27:13

stir that

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:13

stir.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 27:14

Cool. Just a cool down. A quick little cool down. Do you guys bend the tops

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:18

cube.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 27:19

on the part canes? Do you bend the tops or no?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:22

I bend it up. Yeah, but then I get pissed off'cause I can't read what it is and I bend it back down.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 27:27

That's exactly what I do. That's exactly what I do. So I'll look in there and I'll go, Ooh, there's 30 units of thunder. Then you go back and you're like, no, actually there's a 10 and two ones. So there's 12 units of freaking thunder.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:39

Yeah. Oh yeah. And then, and then what? I'd make myself so mad when I break, when I've got, let's say I've got 30 units on a bull and I'll go to breeding and I'll break every single one of them canes. And so I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:51

No, I don't do that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:52

ones.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:53

I don't do that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:54

to just being stupid.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 27:56

I make notes on our semen inventory list and sometimes I have like some, I, I might need 10 more or something, so I, I have to put'em in a different place in that tank and I'll make a note. We gotta use this first'cause there's only four units of it, and then we can go to the 10 pack because I don't want two, I don't want one with four and one with two in it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:18

right. Yep. Yep.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:19

I try to put'em all together, but I, I, I, I get sidetracked.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 28:23

You have the most organized semen inventory of anyone I've ever heard of in this

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:27

I've got a notebook.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 28:29

I know, but nobody I know has stuff like that. Everyone's semen inventory is a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:33

I know somebody that does. I sent you in the text.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 28:37

Well, I don't know. I can't watch that. At the same time, it's probably not

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:40

Oh my God.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:43

people?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 28:43

That's amazing. That's perfect.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:45

people that pay, there are people that pay good money to have their semen tanks inventoried,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:52

That's nuts.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:54

I could never pay somebody to go through that. I, I don't know, maybe I should.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 28:59

I have a problem.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 29:00

weaknesses here. One of our weaknesses is semen inventory, for sure. I, I would

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:05

I have a huge problem paying somebody to do something that I can do because I have to pay enough people to do stuff that I can't do.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 29:15

yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:16

Yeah. Absolutely. Or that you don't have time to do, or there's a, there's certain things that I've realized that it's, it's better for me to pay someone to do it because they're gonna do it quicker and they're gonna do it

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:27

Yeah. Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:29

Like, um, like clipping sail cattle, for instance, is a good one. Um, that I could probably tackle if I wanted to, but at the same time, they're gonna come do it in three or four hours, it'd be done. And it's just well worth, well worth it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:44

And they're used to it. They have the tools.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:46

and they do a good job. And I would

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:48

Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:48

halfway decent job,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:50

I'd stand back and be like, dang, I did that. And it'd be halfway done. It wouldn't even be all the way done.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:56

Yeah. Uh, yeah. You forgot the head.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 29:58

Yeah. Oh, we're.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 30:00

So, uh, so what's the main topic today?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 30:03

I, you're at the mothership.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 30:07

I'm at the mothership,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 30:09

told everyone where you're recording from. You're sitting on blood cards I think.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 30:13

I, I'm in St. Joseph, Missouri, um, right now as we speak, as we record. So it's only fitting that we talk about DNA and EPDs.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 30:26

Oh, my favorite topic.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 30:30

Yeah, it, it's, it's a very loaded topic, I would say. Wouldn't you think?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 30:35

I don't think there's much more polarizing thing to talk about in this breed. I mean, I think, and we could probably dive into why it's polarizing, um, it's probably the same reason why there's frustrations and there's people that beat the drum of it and everything. And you know, try to ask myself whenever we get frustrated with the accuracy and validity of these things though, is like, am I frustrated because the EPDs don't accurately describe these cattle. Or am I frustrated because of the marketing value associated with these differences as described? And oftentimes I go back to the second, to be honest with you, is it's like I'm just frustrated that they've been used as marketing tools and abused in that fashion, when really there's not that much actual difference. I mean, even you think about in the marketplace, the difference between a 80 on yearling and a hundred on yearling would be huge. it's 20 pounds. And then there's also accuracy associated with that. So maybe it's 10 pounds on a year old calf. I mean that's, that's minor, minor, minor in, in the context of your entire management and your operation. But in the marketplace it's a lot of money. So I don't know, I just wanted to tee it up in that fashion. I hope that didn't derail you too far, Corbin. But I think that most of my frustrations lie in the marketing exploitation of EPDs over the actual what they are.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:02

yeah, you, you say that and that's absolutely true. When, when you talk about one being an 80 and then one being a hundred, that that's only 20 pounds. that came to fruition, I. In, in any way, shape, or form. But it doesn't,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 32:17

Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:18

um, there are, I would say that the spread of 20 is not, should, be tighter. You know what I'm saying?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:29

The, the,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:30

be tighter because if we go from 80 to a hundred, you don't know any, it has, if one's a 60 and one's a one 60, yeah, I can bet that that one, that's a one 60 on yearling is gonna, is gonna be superior for growth. But

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:47

not necessarily,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:48

You're right. You're right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:50

because the other thing you gotta take into account is if it isn't, if it's older genetics,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:57

You're getting hammered.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 32:58

you're getting hammered and those, I have proven those to outgrow. The new genetics, but the EPDs on the new genetics are half, again, better than the older genetics and the older genetics outweigh them and with actual data.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 33:16

Yeah, absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 33:17

And so you can't, you can't even do that apples to apples, right?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 33:22

and then, and then you can't, with real raw data, you cannot, it's, it's, it's, once it's set in stone, you're not moving that thing, you're not moving those numbers enough to do any good.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 33:34

No, you're not

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 33:35

Like, like let's say you, let's say I've got an old donor cow that's an 85 for a year lin weight, and she's at the top of the top every year for her calves. Wean the heaviest, they're heaviest at a year for 10 years in a row. Her numbers are not changing. You cannot, even if you're comparing'em against, um, great big growth numbers, you're not moving those numbers. Once they're, they are where they are.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 34:00

Well.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 34:00

that's, that's one of the frustrating thing they'll go down.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 34:04

That's what I was fixing to say is the way this whole thing is set up, it's all false. They will take a new bull that you are, they want you to think is really good because the algorithm said he was really good and in two years he will be down and the new bull will be up taking his place. And they haven't even gotten much actual data in,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 34:34

Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 34:34

they've set him up for failure out of the gate. Because my take on it is if, if the, let's just, let's just use easy numbers. If the mother on yearling is a 100 and the sire is a one 10, the calf should be a 1 0 5. But if genomic says he is a rock star, they make him a 1 57.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 34:59

Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 34:59

70. Why, why don't we say, okay, well, genomic says he is a rock star. Let's make him a 1 25 and let him earn the rest of it with actual data.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 35:09

Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 35:10

But they don't do that. They set him up here at 175 and everybody runs and uses him, and before the calves are on the ground, he's down to a one 50. And before they're, they're the first wet daughter is there and has a baby. She, he's down, he's down to a hundred and they do it every year. It's, it's asinine is what it is, and people buy into it every year over and over and over.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 35:38

Well, and I'll tell you another thing, uh, we've gotta use our eyes on some of this stuff because one of the things I've noticed, let's just use this as an example because it, it's, it's actually something that, that can be affected. If we've got a bull that's a plus nine on his DNA and you call him a heifer bull, and then three months later that bull's. Without having anybody, having used him, without anybody touching him, he's already at a plus four. So getting into some, we can get into some trouble where, where we're marketing some stuff as heifer bulls, or we're marketing stuff as high growth and then doesn't, it doesn't work out that way. And so it comes back on the breeder. And that kind, that's something that kind of makes me nervous from time to time.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 36:26

All three of us used the bull. That was a heifer bull when we used him. And then by the time the before the calves hit the ground, they bumped him to a 3.9 birth weight

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 36:36

Which bull was that?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 36:37

clarion.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 36:39

Cion. Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 36:40

He was like a one nine. And we, I bred heifers to him and now he's like a three nine. But guess what? I didn't pull any of them.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 36:49

well,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 36:50

A one.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 36:50

well, and that, and that's actually, uh. That's, that's actually good. A good way to put, you know, because something's a three nine doesn't mean, doesn't mean they can't have them. So, I mean, there is some, a silver

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 37:04

Did you ever see that chart? Did you guys ever see that chart of the CESE deal?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 37:11

Oh yeah. Yep.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 37:12

Yep.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 37:12

had sent it to me. Robert sent it to me.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 37:14

and you sent it to me.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 37:15

nuts that people go, berserko worried about this stuff, and they don't even, they don't even have to. I mean, the, the study was how many of'em are actually pulled and it's, it's so minimal. It's crazy.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 37:35

Yeah, it is.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 37:38

Well, so about the young sire thing, one thing that I noticed, um, and we'll get to functional longevity at the end, but I was, I just did a sort and I've always said, with enough data, all cattle will gravitate back towards average. You pull progeny proofs on some of these bows that have thousands and thousands and thousands of records, and you'll find that it's a big deal if a bull is consistently Ratioing 102 at weaning or 102 on yearling over a long, long period of time. But I'm trying to find it here It is, if you do, if you log in,'cause you can't just do it from outside, you have to log in to online. And then you go to functional longevity and you do a sort by the progeny observed. So it's the highly, highly accurate sis for functional longevity. And you get to the top 35 bulls, top 35 bulls for functional longevity progeny submissions. How many of those 35 are above breed average for the trait?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 38:37

No clue

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 38:38

25.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 38:39

25

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 38:40

above.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 38:41

Yeah,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 38:42

Out of 40. Out of 40. Random selection of the highly, highly accurate sars, six above breed average,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 38:51

Interesting.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 38:52

out of 40 the sort in reverse. And of the bottom 41 Cires for accuracy in the entire breed. How many of the bottom 41 for accuracy above breed average for the trait 25.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 39:10

I was backwards.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 39:12

So to me that just says a couple things and, and, and I've been trying to unpack it and I was like, okay, well maybe our producers consistently pulling out the wrong bulls. Is it in one vein? Because this Angus breed is so territorial and so tribal. If you're using Gardener, you have to use Gardener. If you use SAV, you have to use SAV. If you're using Coleman, you have to use Coleman or what, whatever you guys wanna say. It's very tribal right now. So I did that sort and I looked at the individual bulls and there was no correlation. There was no correlation other than they, maybe they were towards the top of registrations at one point. So I still think it would be interesting to run that kind of, I don't know if it's a regression analysis or what they do a correlation analysis. I don't know how it's said, but I would like to see what a bull's yearling yearling weight EPD is. that follows functional longevity because I think those are actually parallel traits. The outliers for yearling weight are usually the ones that get used within the Angus population and lead registrations and have the highest amount of progeny, and then consequently, a lot of those cattle end up being also lower for functional longevity in

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 40:16

Do you,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 40:16

my hypothesis.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 40:17

do you not think that at some point we're be, we're so much better off by just trying to keep that middle ground instead of, it seems like every time I use a bull that is, um, like in the higher. Extreme. I, I shouldn't say extreme, but it in the higher, say, top 10% of, um, the EPDs. They never, they never lead up to that. But if, if we, if we continue and say, okay, our, our goal is to just do 25% across the board, it's more consistent. Does that make sense? I don't know that I'm getting outta my mouth the way I want it to, but

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 41:07

Oh, absolutely you are. I think you make a lot of sense. It's like we're chasing outliers so much because it's easier to sell extremes. I mean, who's gonna be the first one that puts an ad in the Angus Journal that says Our cattle are just average and do average things? But I always say,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 41:22

yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 41:22

I've told you guys this on the podcast a lot, Tim and I, that's, that's our deal. Compared to what? Compared to what? Well, if you have a commercial customer saying that my cows are too big and my cows are too this, or my cows are too that, then why do we continue? You'd probably actually have to select for below breed average for growth. Well, who's really doing that? Not very many people. I know that

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 41:43

No,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 41:44

not bold enough to do it, because in the marketplace, those cattle aren't rewarded.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 41:48

it has to be a specific sire that I know is gonna do a specific thing, and I don't care what does EPD say then? And I want, I, I think that SIRE is gonna like a full, like XT or 68, 0 7 or whatever, you know, their EPDs are not good. But if you know, and you want to get that specific thing that that bull does well and use it and hope that it works, because you, let's be honest, you don't always get the things that work well like you want to every time. So I'm okay with that. Like, I, I don't, I just, the numbers are just out of the way. For me in that point, I'm using a specific sire for a specific, as a specific tool to do a specific thing, and I don't care what the EPD say because I can take that female and then turn around and breed her to something to correct it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 42:48

Well, Angus just came out.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 42:49

do? You do. You wanna know what you can do? Vince?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 42:52

What can I do?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 42:53

Introducing the algorithm. Vitamin pack. Tired of your bulls. EPDs being, well, a little underwhelming. Is he just not cutting it in the genetic race? Well, fret no more because the algorithm vitamin pack is here to supercharge his performance in just 72 hours. Yes, three days. as your bulls EPDs rise by 10%. That's right, 10%, five, 10%. We're talking stronger, more fertile offspring and those genetically superior traits that'll have the entire herd whispering. Wow, look at that stud. No more hoping for good enough genetics. Just your bull a little vitamin boost. And bam, he's a genetic powerhouse. It's like a DNA makeover, but with way less drama. So don't settle for average. Give your bull the algorithm, oral vitamin pack because when it comes to your cattle, mediocre is so last season. Disclaimer, results may vary based on individual genetics, environmental factors, and overall health. The 10% increase in EPDs is an average, not guaranteed for all bulls. Always consult with your veterinary before starting any new supplement regimen.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 44:07

So if I feed double of that, will it get me 20%

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 44:12

Uh, I don't know. It may, that may cause some. That may cause some issues for you down the road? Um, I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 44:19

like fertility? Fertility's not important.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 44:21

well, I mean, I would hate to, uh, to use the, the tools that we have available to use the, the vitamin pack. Um, I would hate for it to negatively impact your herd.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 44:32

Oh, no, no, I wouldn't want that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 44:34

'cause that's, uh,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 44:35

Oh, it doesn't impact your herd, Corbin. No, it doesn't impact your herd. It just changes the EPD,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 44:41

That's right. It doesn't change the herd.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 44:44

Uh, I mean, if I could do what I'm gonna do and, and you promised me that I was just going to get a 10% increase, I mean, why the hell not? But, um, I think when it comes right down to it, uh, do, do you think that, that we just need to temper our expectations when it comes to EPDs and their accuracies?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 45:05

I think that people shouldn't believe in them so wholeheartedly because I don't think the accuracy is there. I think they want you to think the accuracy is there, but I don't think the accuracy is there.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 45:23

it's, it's one of those deals where it's like, if, if I have to complete, continue to hammer on and then the response is always, well, it's just an expectation, well then, then we need to change our expectations, um, going forward because we're, we're, we're teeing up a ball that we can't hit

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 45:47

Okay, so here, here's the way I see it. E everybody is, everybody is all about this new foot EPD, and trust me, I, I so wish it was accurate and right, because it would be a helpful tool. But the question is, you know, everybody's reading, oh, well that thing's only, that thing's in the top. 65% of the EPDs don't dare walk over there and look at its freaking feet.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:15

Right,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:16

just go off the paper. But here's the thing, how many people turn that data in?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:23

right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:24

So they're guessing. They're guessing at a lot of it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:29

Mm-hmm.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:29

you don't have one of the sis that is used by the people that is actually turning the data in, then they're guessing it's your stuff. If you're not turning the data in on that dam, they're guessing at your stuff.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:48

Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:48

wrong, Joe? Correct me.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 46:50

I think they're probably looking for a mix of jeans that they think are associated with something.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 46:55

Correct.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 46:56

I also think, I don't know what it's been about this year, guys, because this, these footy PDs have been out for, gosh, they've been out for six, seven years now, maybe eight years. I might be wrong, but I'm, I'm pretty sure they came out way before covid. I'd have to, I should have done a history lesson before this, and I've had an epidemic of this spring guys calling me, going The feet on these Angus cattle are wretched right now. What's going on? What's going on? What's going on? When I see more extreme observations of foot improvement across the board. And then you look at the, you look at the distribution of phenotypes released by the ANS Association, the bell-shaped curve center is still at a five, five and a half. I think it's like right in the center. They say the outliers are to one side and outliers are to the other. So I just think that sometimes the EPDs, if not rooted in the context of reality, us a false sense of hope. They give us a false sense of, false sense of reality. I mean, why not just go look at the cattle? Why not look and say, these cattle haven't caused me any trouble and they've been nice cattle. I wanted to come back to. The Vince question about 25%, 30%. I really wish there were enough folks or more folks out there that were content with using SIS that fell in those percentiles, because I think, I don't select for dollar beef. It's not my jam, but I think that there's so much opportunity for genuine beef cattle improvement in the top 30%, and you really, really limit yourself when you're chasing the 1% of the cires that you can use and what those cattle will do to your herd. You know, I get on my soapbox all the time, but Angus just came out with a report that I can ran across the other day talking about the percent prime, and really amazing what we've done to the carcass endpoints and terminal characteristics of cattle in the commercial marketplace. I see these bulls showing up with a two and a half, 2.8 on marbling EPD, what cattle are we trying to change? That's what I wanna know. What are you breeding them to that needs this drastic change? Or are we just trying to kill'em earlier? Kill'em earlier. We need to harvest cattle earlier. Well, what's too early? Three days old Corbin. Two days old, one day old, 180. I don't know. I, I don't know. But what I'm saying is, is I think that we, I, I would like to find who the producers are that are just kind of steadfast. You can watch their traits. Um, I sent this to another chat group. I have a great part about maternal, uh, plus and hoard reporting is you guys can get these, these graphs that show your genetic trend compared to others. And a lot of our genetic trend stays pretty stable at Bruin. It's kind of right middle of the road. Little bit of improvement, shaving off a little bit of mature weight, adding a little bit of performance, improving the footy PD just a little bit. But we don't, and if you follow what the breed has done though, breed average. You can see, people can say whatever they want. It's been straight up, straight up. Selection on dollar maternal, straight up selection on dollar beef. And I think that the frustration from purebred producers standpoint is those indexes were created. I don't know if, is it indexes or indices? I think it's indexes, but technically it should be indices. Vince, you're

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:15

Let's talk about indexes.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:17

we should probably ask Vince that

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:19

How about you just say indexes?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 50:21

Okay. Indexes I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:23

Would, would it be index? I,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 50:26

with two I and a till day over the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:29

come on. Come on.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 50:31

Vince doesn't know what a till day is. I don't think

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:33

I don't,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 50:34

north.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:35

I care, nor do I care,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:35

Vince probably, Vince invented the

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 50:37

Invented the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 50:38

do I care.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 50:39

No, but I just, I just think about like. What cattle are we trying to change and what can we do consistently? And then what value we provide in our customers. And I would love to find somebody who's just like, this is a type that works here. This is a sustainable production model, and these are the cows that have lasted here the longest. And then commercial guys can use the indexes for their use to simplify selection, but individual traits, that's kinda where purebred guys should be focused, I think. And the traits that kind of fit them for improvement. I mean, you guys have a thought on that.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 51:15

Well, I mean, should we not just, okay. Does she breed? Yes. Does she cause you problems? No. Do you have to nurse down a Tet because it's too big? No. Are her feet perfect? They're not perfect, but I don't have to trim'em. They're not problems. No. Does, can she raise a big calf? Yes. What's wrong with those fundamental things? Instead of what that piece of paper says? Because how many times does the piece of paper match and how many times does it not match? And I mean this, this whole deal, somebody had a pretty good analogy about, um, like the genomics deal. It's only like, what is it? 60, 70% accurate? It's not a hundred percent accurate. Is it 50% accurate?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 52:09

not even that.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 52:10

The, the ana?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 52:11

when you do, when you do a year limb bull, if you have the phenotypes of birth weight and you pull blood, you're only getting like a 38, maybe a 42,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 52:19

So,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 52:20

Corbin, maybe

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 52:21

Yeah. Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 52:22

the, the whole point of the analogy was, let's just say it is 70%, which I think it's far from 70%, I think it's more 70% inaccurate. Would you jump out of a plane using a parachute and your odds were the 70% that it's gonna open and 30% that it's not?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 52:42

That's a good point.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 52:43

I, I'm not, so why would you base all of your breeding decisions and all of your cow herd off of that?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 52:51

You know what I'd prefer, Vince,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 52:53

What

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 52:53

the maker of the parachute said, you know what, I'm a father of three and you're gonna watch me jump outta that plane and I'm gonna use that parachute

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 53:01

I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 53:02

And that's how I appreciate breeding programs. I appreciate breeding programs that accurately describe their cattle. And

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 53:09

Yep,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 53:09

heard Tale of a Commercial Sale that happened not long ago, and a friend of mine said I had a customer arguing with me about birth weight. He said he turned in the blood birth weight, came back kinda low on a sire that didn't really fit and he did not declare, declare that bull of heifer bull. And the customer said, I've read all the articles I know about genomics. This is a heifer bull. He goes, well, Pfizer isn't going to write you a check back if you gotta pull calves, I'm gonna be the one that has to write the check

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 53:35

that's exactly right.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 53:37

And I, that's a part that's become a little frustrating for me. And I've actually used footnotes. You guys could have seen that last year where I wasn't trying to snipe at anybody or, but I spelled it out in the footnotes. Genomic says, this animal is this, but if you want to try it, that's at your risk. I and the reason I genomic is because I wanted to DNA parent verify because we turned out enough cleanup sire. And I was like, okay, want to know for sure that we have the parentage, right? Because I'd rather have Bull X breed heifers than bull y, for example. And if there was a mix up, there could be a really big problem for our customers.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 54:16

But do we have, go ahead, Corbin.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 54:18

I think at the end of the day too, no matter what stance we have on the, on the accuracy of the EPDs, once you pull blood and the, and the DNA and at the end of, at the end of the day, we're all, all want it to be better. So I, I don't think it's one of those things we should abandon. I don't think we need to stop doing it. I think we need to tempert our expectations as with anything. Um, you know, use it as a tool, but don't, I mean, if I'm being honest with you, whenever I go select a user, whenever I put my sale book together, uh, whenever I make the sale order, the EPDs are the last piece of the puzzle. If one off the page EPD wise and he sucks, he's not gonna lead off my sale. I'm sorry. That's just the way it is. That's the way it should be. But, um, I think the expectations need, need to be tempered. I, I think we need to utilize the tool because at some point it could become more accurate than it is. And, and the only way for it to do that is for, for us to keep churning away at the damn data.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 55:26

So do we need to be just keep using extreme low birth weights to be safe for our customers? I mean, because

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 55:35

that up because I actually think, um, I wish we could just describe the cattle accurately and just have actual production, um, be kind of the focal point. Again,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 55:46

yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 55:47

horse is out the barn and down the alley. We ain't going back to that. We've got 23 traits and we've got eight indexes, as you say, Vince, um.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 55:57

In to

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 55:57

Uh, but I do think that even the people who are the most, don't wanna say pro EPD or anti a PD, but the people who lean on them the most in their breeding programs would even say that we probably swung this pendulum too far to that side. You know, I, I do think Angus has even come out and said, we need more phenotypes, we need more actual data. I would like to see some hard actual benefits to producing actual data because really I see multi-generations of just pulling blood and getting the EPDs and it seems like in the marketplace they're rewarded. And, and so I guess if I had a solution, I've said this for a long time, it would be financially incentivizing data submission, quality

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 56:45

You mean they do that? They do that. They, they charge you for it. Every time you turn it in,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 56:52

Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 56:53

that's your reward. I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 56:55

your reward is you get to pay.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 56:57

I did see in the president's notes of the last meeting, they're looking for a new, what are they calling it? A designation. So there'll be a, you know, girl Scout badge basically on your pedigrees if you've submitted data, which I don't, I just wish we'd just get some money back. I don't, I don't know why we have to keep spending so much money for so many things. I just wanna be able to sell bulls and do a good job guaranteeing them for people and have those cattle have reliable and realistic tools. And I want our commercial cattlemen to stop being in Innovat or like inundated with tools that they could wield kind of dangerously. I mean, that producer who was arguing with another producer about Cies, when that producer knows the mix of jeans, that's dangerous at that point, in my opinion, because they think they're getting one thing and they're gonna get something else. And just, um, I wish it was a little simpler. I wanna shift gears though, if you guys are okay with that. Um. Are there some EPDs for you guys that are, that you do look at when you source a new sire? Are there some that you go, this is a red flag one, this one isn't, or you straight up type period? That's it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 58:05

I mean, I look at the, I look at the, uh, birth wing and yearling, scrotal as my primary stuff. The, um, like marbling and, and rib eye would be secondary. They would not be important for me. The, the only reason I look at any of the stuff is just to try not to. Wake up one day, wake and be so in the hole.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 58:36

Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 58:37

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 58:38

know, to trying to keep it balanced and kind of keep it coming as we're going, you know? Um, I don't, I don't use any of the dollar figure stuff.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 58:47

For

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 58:47

I then,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 58:49

For me, there's thresholds to everything. I, I think, um, I'm not gonna use a bull that's, that's a 30 on weaning and a 55 on, on yearling. I mean, I,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 58:58

right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 58:58

that that's, setting you too far behind. Um, in a lot of ways on the birth weight stuff, I'm not scared of birth. I, I, I think the way, the way the DNA's working right now, it's so skewed to where we can get to a negative 12 CED so easily. And I think we've gotta, gotta quit being scared of that, um, because it's, don't know, it's, it's, it's, maybe it's uncomfortable, but I think we're gonna have to realize that these cows can lay down and have a calf. And so I, I've, I've noticed a little bit of a shift where people are not as afraid of birth weight at this point. Um, maybe it's just my observation, maybe it's not real. um, from my observation, I feel like people are starting to, I. Operate in that way. Where, where it's just like they have certain thresholds of growth and, and, and they look at the numbers, but they use'em as a tool. And maybe I've just kind of groomed my customers that way, but I feel like they're using the EPDs as a tool and there's a lot of those guys that don't have a dang clue what any of'em mean anyways. And there's,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:00:00

Right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:00:01

25 of'em on the page. Um, so you get to write your sale book and you get to put the ones in there that you feel are accurate, uh, or that are useful tools. And so I try to highlight the ones that, that I think a person should look at. Um, but if somebody comes and asks me about an animal, that's the last thing I'm gonna bring up is that animal's EPDs. Because the chances are I probably know more about that animal than the EPDs. No.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:00:24

What weight of a calf do you think a heifer should be able to have? I. Do you think it's 50 pounds? You think it's 70 pounds? I mean.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:00:35

for me, if a, I'll start, if a heifer can't have seven and a half percent of her body weight, I don't want her, I don't push'em to that. if they can't have that, I, I don't, I don't need to have that around. I mean, when it comes time for their second calf after they've weaned the first, and I'm not asking them to have a 1200 pound heifer, that's a 94. That's. It's a 95 pound calf, right? might be a little bit off, maybe I'm saying it. Seven on a heifer, 7% on a heifer. So 94 pound calf. That's a big calf. I don't ask her to do that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:01:10

you want.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:01:11

Nope. Not what I want, not what I'm shooting for, but if I have to go jerk one out, I mean, I'm gonna look that as a red flag and I'm gonna move her out of our population because when it comes time for her second calf, it's time to rock and roll boys. I mean, she's gotta have a big stout calf and she's gotta wean it off and she's gotta do it without any help from anybody. so, I mean, I, I think a lot of those cattle can do it too. I just think there's a lot of folks that are so fearful about what could be, what could be What if we, well what if you had to pull a calf out of a hundred heifers? You were Calvin. if you had to pull two calves out of a hundred? You were Calvin. Would it be worth it to not have these little 50 pound or chicken bone ones running around. If they get sick, they die. I mean, it's ca

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:01:53

if

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:01:54

heifers.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:01:55

What if you have 150 pound calves and seven of'em die because they're weak and fine boned and never worth a crap? What about the payday at the end of this, at the end of it, whenever you sell those calves. And you've got a bunch of'em that are 50 pounds at birth and then they're a hundred pounds behind it at weaning you go to sell'em. Uh, the last I checked, uh, some 500 pounders, we're bringing$4 a pound. If we're a hundred, uh, a hundred pounds off, a hundred times four,$400. You can afford to lose a few calves and still make quite a bit of money if you're calving out a hundred heifers.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:02:31

A 50 pound calf will never catch an 80 pound calf.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:02:34

no. And that number's not gonna stay at 30, either

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:02:38

No, and and there's a threshold. I mean, we're not saying that heifers need to have 160 pound calves either. I mean, I don't want

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:02:45

No,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:02:45

be critical of that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:02:47

for that matter,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:02:48

but.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:02:48

no. But we've gotta have some cowman sense and I just think so many folks I. I think it's become lazy marketing guys. I honestly think it's become lazy marketing. Don't pull a calf. And then you know what? When that bull gets too big, he's got enough growth spread. Just turn him right out with your cows and use that heifer bull on cows. Well, I've taken the other approach where I'm like, man, starve the heck. I starve. Relative term, keep thin your heifer bulls and hopefully you could use them for three years. Buy one that's a little bit more moderate. You know, maybe it keeps the top end of some of those heifers, but try to keep most of your heifers. This is me talking to commercial guys. Keep most of your heifers outta your cow herd and use cow bulls on your cows. And um, that's the way it used to always be. And I think there's a lot of people, I think it's the generation generally that's older than our generation who's talking right here, who do remember cutting out calves out of continental influenced cows and having some real issues, and they have those demons and they're like, boy, I don't ever want to go back to that. And so.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:03:52

I don't want to have problems.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:03:54

a alive calf's worth more than no calf at all. Well, we don't need to go to that crazy spot either. We need to be somewhere in the center Center and we need to be thoughtful about it. And what do you think's a, a reasonable heifer birth weight. Vince, asked.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:04:09

Well, I mean, my heifers have 75 to 85 pound calves all the time. I've had'em have 95 pound calves unassisted. Um, the thing about it is, if you have, let's just say that you start the ball this year and you have a 60 pound calf and it's a heifer and you retain it, what are you gonna breed it to? You're gonna breed it. You're gonna, you're just gonna keep dropping that birth weight and you're gonna keep increasing that cese and then three generations of retaining that heifer and breeding it to heifer bulls. Her pelvic area is gonna be so little, she won't even be, you'll be pulling a 50 pound calf.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:04:52

Absolutely. Absolutely. So that already p we've already poked every hole you can poke in in, in the thought process that says a heifer bull and turn'em out on your cows.'cause

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:05:03

It's,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:05:05

that are just so scared of birth weight that they'll go buy a heifer bull and they'll use in one year on heifers and then that he'll be on cows that next year because they enjoy not having to work, not having to think about it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:05:14

that's right.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:05:15

But we shouldn't share that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:05:17

down the road.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:05:19

don't know if you should share that secret sauce, Corbin, because you said your customers have a appetite for some bulls with some birth weight. Now ours do too. Because when we finally gave it to'em and they tried it, they went. Oh my God. That's what a real calf looks like. Oh, she could have that. Oh my goodness. And, and it wasn't like they were having 300 pound baby elephants. They were just having a real calf again, and they weren't using their heifer bulls on their cows. And maybe they ran into'em. I think my customers probably started because the type of the bulls, they saw the different pen and they went, oh my goodness, I want something that looks like that. And then as some, some of them bought'em because they were discounted. They were discounted because their birth weight, EPD, and now we've switched that around. I'm not gonna say a six on birth is worth more at our place, but bulls that are rugged, bulls that have some shape and some mass to'em, and some get up and go and have some birth weight. They actually bring a premium at our outfit now. But our customers have seen the value of that. They've seen how those cattle end up being, have you guys ever noticed that? A lot of times the best calves at birth are the best calves at weaning that are the best calves at yearling, that are the best cows. You calve. I mean, it just kind of, I feel like it just follows'em. Am am, am I the only one that sees that or you guys see that too?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:06:34

Oh yeah, absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:06:36

Are there's, are there some guys around y'all? Have you ever heard, heard these guys that they don't, they don't necessarily take care of their cattle. I'm not saying they abuse'em or anything like that, but they're, oh, my heifers are getting ready to calve here in a month. I'm gonna bring'em up and start feeding them some. Do you know those guys?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:06:56

Yep.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:06:56

Around here. People do it all the time. I don't know about out there. Well, when does the calf gain most of its weight?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:07:03

Oh, exactly.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:07:04

days.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:07:05

So all they're doing is making the calf bigger. They're not truly helping the mother. If they wanted to do that, they should have helped the mother in the beginning and then just put her on some hay the last trimester and let the calf be the normal size It should be. But they're, they're making a bigger calf. E Well, that was supposed to be a low birth weight bull. Well, maybe it was gonna be,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:07:32

Another problem that we have is that we're breeding these cattle just as young as we can breed them.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:07:39

yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:07:39

we're trying to make'em calve at the age of two, which I'm not saying I don't wanna do that. I wanna push the envelope, uh, I want to get'em on the ground and get'em weaned and, and, and move'em as quick as we can. But that is a byproduct of doing that, is that a lot of these heifers haven't reached maturity. And so when they lay down to have a calf, they don't open up quite as much. And so it's just part of the animal that you're, it's just part of it. It's just part of the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:08:03

Correct.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:08:03

we're playing by, by pushing the envelope. but anyways, do you guys wanna go into this other question or do you wanna, or do you think we have time or,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:08:14

Well, you know what I love about around the shoot Corbin. I love that we started talking about EPDs and then we talked about heifer management and stuff. This is like a conversation would happen around the shoot. I wanted to add real quick before you do that back to Vince. Um, I worked for a commercial outfit when I was younger that. At the last trimester of pregnancy, we pulled the protein tubs away from those cattle'cause they were kept on dry feed that was dormant, the protein tubs, pulled mineral, kept salt in front of'em, obviously water and plenty of feed. But it was about getting those cattle, a little thriftier, making'em walk a little farther, making them range more, making sure they didn't get too much internal fat with them and stuff, Those heifers didn't have assistance very often. It was super rare, and I think when people started paying more money for bulls started getting more money for calves, they started really worried about management and worried about getting'em bread. You gotta get on top of those heifers early. How many people have told you that, Vince, where it's like they start slipping, you'll never get'em back? Well, that's true, but we started feeding them and making that calf just grow and the calf comes out with four inches of hair and shag and it's like you might have just caused yourself a major problem. I've heard people say the calf doubles in the last trimester. I've had people say triples I, I don't know what it does, but we all know that it's largest amount of growth is every day right before it gets delivered. Right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:09:35

I know for a fact on a woman, the last four or five weeks, that baby grows a pound a week and they're only having

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:09:43

Wow.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:09:44

extrapolate that out over a calf. You know,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:09:48

Uh, does the, I lost my train of thought when Corbin said that woman's gonna have a calf,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:09:57

That's the truth of why he's in St. Joe. He is

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:09:59

uh, telling you,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:10:01

He is

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:01

I'm telling you

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:10:02

house.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:03

that woman's gonna have a calf. No. God, what was I gonna say?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:08

Something.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:09

don't know.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:10:09

What was the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:10

it wasn't,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:10

good.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:10:11

Corbin, you had another

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:12

no,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:10:12

We were talking about EPDs two that you look at. Do you have anything to add there before we move on?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:19

no,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:20

That wasn't it, Vince?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:21

no. It was about heifers and I don't remember.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:24

Well, the other, the other. Scenario I had was, was actually ties into EPDs, kind of. And so that's why I thought it would be pertinent. Um, but a blind, it's blind squirrel. If you've seen so many bad ones out of a cow or sire, if you find a good one, are the genetics there or is it a freak? Or are you just gonna have a train wreck just in a more attractive package?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:10:45

This is gonna be hard.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:47

So what's the best way to tackle this? Let's, let's say we've got a flush of 10 brothers. Let's say you've got a flush of 10

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:53

Yeah,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:10:54

There's, there's nine of them that are, or let's say there's six of them that are pus, two of them are okay, one's really good, and then one's just fan freaking fantastic. Phenomenal. But at the end of the day, what can you predict is gonna happen with the progeny of that phenomenal one?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:11:15

so 60% of it says they're gonna be pukes.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:11:19

Yeah. I think, I think this is just a direct correlation to, to playing the genomic Don't

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:11:27

don't know. Are you talking about on EPDs or.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:11:32

I'm

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:11:32

Visual. Visual. Yeah. Visual phenotype.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:11:36

well, and I wonder if that one freak, that one freak might be. What's a freak? Is it? And, and I think that's why EPD started, Corbin actually was to pull environment out of it and say, well, that type freak that you're looking at, the rest are pues. Does he have the ability to pass that on or doesn't he? And chances are all of those will breed to the average. But the one who might have the most genetic breeding value might be the SST one of the lot. And the one who has the expression genes might be the other one. so I think that points to the philosophy. of how we breed cattle and the predictability. And I'm not saying I'm perfect at it. I don't want anybody to say that I'm preachy or, or anything. But I do think that we owe it to our customers to try to produce predictability in the cattle, especially if we're selling to commercial cattlemen. And you can't do that with fire on ice, on fire and ice, on fire and ice matings because there's just too much variation between them. um, again, like I said, I'm not perfect at it either, but I do think breeding like types to like types is, is a lot more predictive than the actual EPD, I shouldn't say predictive, I should say it should, it bears more fruit of what you're trying to do, um, unless you're just trying to sell EPDs. So that's the question. Are you selling EPDs or are you selling livestock? I'm selling livestock that have a set of EPDs that go with them as predictive tools and um, I think that. away the paper. The ones I sell, I still think meet the expectations that they're sold under.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:13:14

If you take the genomic test and figure that in and say the genomic test says that one of those six pues is gonna be the best one, and then. That, that's where I see the issue is people are not looking at'em. They're going off of what? That piece of a genomic test. We can wholeheartedly believe it because it's 32% accurate. But they're not looking and they're, they're saying, well, he don't look like much, but the EPDs say that he's gonna be the man, so we're gonna use him.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:13:50

Yeah,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:13:51

not only that, but the bull studs are running right out there and signing them up and selling semen on because they know people will buy the semen.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:13:57

with the right amount of feed, they could make anything look decent.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:14:01

Yep.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:14:02

Um, You said Joe, a couple times, you said predictive. Uh, and I think that's a good, term for, for what we're talking about here is, is how can we predict that the outcome is gonna be positive? And I think if we're talking about this little scenario of 10 bulls. Um, I think being, to be able to predict what those Ted Bulls are gonna be, starts well before those 10 bulls are born, well, well before they're weaned, well before those eggs are made. If you the right cow to make those bulls, then you have a better chance of success. I think a lot of times we're flushing cows that don't need to be flushed. Um, and if we're talking about a, a, just an AI sire or, or a bull turnout sire, um, so much variance within 10 different cows within a sire group. I don't think ten's enough to even make a prediction. Do y'all? I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:14:56

I probably not.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:14:58

It depends. It depends on how they're bred. You know, it's like, I will guarantee you one thing, if you go and look at cattle and you find a, a bull that you like, and you find his mother and she has bad feet, I don't care what the EPDs say, there's a really high likelihood that her daughters will also have bad feet.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:15:17

That's

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:15:18

seen it, I've experienced it, and I'm just using bad feet as an example. Like that could be any of the EPD traits. Um, you know, they, well. I guess any of the phenotype traits. I said that backwards. Um, if you want to have a cow look a certain way, the best thing you could do is go find the bull's mother and see if she looks that way, because they're gonna do that with a high likelihood, I believe. And, and feet was probably a bad example. I saw Vince shaking his head because feet is one of the weirdest, doggone traits we've ever seen. I mean, um, and how much that changes and how much it's environmentally influenced. And it's really, really too bad that that particular EPD. Uh, I think it had some real opportunity. Um, I think that there's still opportunity in spots. I've seen differences on flushes of cattle here I have, then I'm also seeing some outlier differences amongst the breed that just don't make sense. And I don't know that we're changing cattle that much when I go out in the countryside. If you look at how much EPD improvement we've had, did you see that? Uh, remember a 0.50 used to be breed average or something, and anything a below that was an improver? think that, well,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:16:32

five.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:16:32

yeah. Yeah, I think like a 0.48 or something. Cor, if you're a 0.48, you're in the bottom percentile. You're in the bottom half of the breed for that particular foot trait. And I said, are we really comfortable with saying breed average Angus would be better foot? I, I don't, I don't feel that way when I go out in the countryside.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:16:53

Let, let me throw this scenario at you. There's a guy here that gives a hundred to say$200,000 for a cow. Her feet, her calves, feet, terrible. Genomic says her calves feet are in the top 5% of the breed. Do you turn in actual data or you just go buy what the genomics say? That guy's not gonna turn actual data in on a$200,000 cow's calf because he's gonna try to get his money back.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:17:27

Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:17:28

Am I wrong?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:17:30

No,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:17:31

I mean, some people might, but I, the people that I know in this breed that spend that kind of money, they're not gonna be that honest.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:17:39

Yeah, it's good to cash those checks. We all have to run businesses and we all have to make payments on things, but. I've

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:17:47

You just,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:17:47

that some of the super, super high value cattle manifest a lot of the problems in the breed because you automatically have that bias to their breeding value. Um,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:17:57

have you ever seen a cow that the a calf or a cow that the EPD says it's got terrible feet and it has really nice feet

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:18:07

absolutely.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:08

Absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:09

say it ain't so.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:10

All the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:11

it ain't so.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:11

I will say something else that I notice is there is, it's crazy to me how many bulls there are that are in the top 1% for, for a given trait like that top 1% is, there's more than more than 1% of'em. I feel like.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:28

Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:30

How can there be so many bulls that are in the top 1% for feet

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:18:35

I think the best thing

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:36

then works the opposite way too. How can there be,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:18:39

I.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:18:39

How come there's so many negative 10 CE, d bulls? How are they in the 95th percentile if they're so dadgum? Many of'em.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:18:47

Yeah, I don't know about that. I, I do know that the, the foot one is an interesting discussion. It absolutely, all these selective traits are because the, the, how the data's submitted, who's submitting it. Um, you'd like to think that, and, and that's always built into the premise. When you hear someone talk, they say, most people do the right thing. I'm like, well, I don't know. We might have to amend that statement and say, all people have bills to pay. And that ends up becoming the first decision. then I try to find the people who will lop the head off of that$200,000 donor with bad feet. Vince? Um, I think they're pretty rare to find. I think they're really, really rare to find. I actually think because I know you, uh, you have a really, really high valued cow, and I actually do believe that if you had something found in her that you thought was going to harm someone, I do think Ben Santini would've shipped her. do believe that.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:19:46

I've done it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:19:47

yeah, I believe it. And.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:19:49

wanna know what, uh, what I think one of the solutions to these problems with EPDs is it has to be talking to each other and just being candid. the more candid we are with each other, the better we can do to, to improve on some of these traits. And maybe the EPDs will will get better and they can be more trusted later. But right now we just have to rely on each other a lot too. Um, I think it's important to, reach out to your. So you're, you know, we're all in this together, so I think it's important to talk to each other and if, uh, if you're seeing something, bring it to light to your buddies and, and talk about it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:20:25

So I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:26

you ever asked,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:20:27

I had

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:27

go ahead.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:20:28

I had a section here that said we should talk about solutions'cause it's easy to find all these problems. Who's gonna have a solution? I think that's a good solution. Corbin, what were you gonna say, Vince?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:37

I was gonna say, have you ever had, um, somebody at a sale looking or, or talking to you about a bull or whatever? Did you see his feet? Well, ZPD say

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:49

Yeah. Well,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:51

got good feet. How do you know? Did you see him? No. His EPD say they're good.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:54

no, he is

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:55

Now

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:55

foot straw.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:20:56

your network 100% your network, and it has to be people you can trust. And how many times does your network revolve because you let somebody in your circle that you thought you could trust?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:21:09

Yeah,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:21:10

Then you figure it out later that you can't, so that evolves. You kick him out, maybe you bring somebody else in.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:21:19

I think there's two ways that people are, well, maybe more than two, but two of the ways that I think about with describing cattle is that a lot of people really do care about people's feelings and they don't wanna say, well, I saw this, and you know, you raise them or whatever, and be honest. So that's always hard.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:21:40

Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:21:40

tell you what's harder. What's harder is knowing about a problem and then telling somebody about it five years later after they dove headlong into it. And then you gotta say, yeah, I kind of knew that was an issue all along. And then I honestly think that there's another camp and the other camp that's not accurately describing cattle just aren't accurately describing cattle and they really don't care about you kick those ones outta your network. I mean, kick'em out quickly and run away from their prefixes whenever you see it, because I mean, they're just telling you what their cattle are gonna do by their actions. um, I'll tell you guys though, that was the best part about podcast platform and this information, what's Rogan call it? Uh, information Marketplace or something that's out there, I think is what he calls it, is it's exposed me to a lot of cool, cool people. And,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:22:27

absolutely.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:22:28

and I will tell you, I think that. We need to, when you talk about prescriptions or solutions, we've got to empower people to be proud of their cattle despite their EPD profile. If

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:22:41

Yes,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:22:42

you say they will do and you're proud and, and, and you know you can trust what they'll do in the wild, be damned, EPDs be

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:22:52

absolutely.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:22:53

Corbin said something about 70 minutes ago, right when we started and I wrote it down where he goes, now am I gonna use a 35 weaning and a 55 yearling weight? I actually, Corbin goes, I'm probably not gonna go that far. I disagree with you because I know you. If you knew that those daughters would last without a hitch until they're 10 years old and not cause you a problem and they would produce the kind of bulls you raised, I think you would use him and I would too. The problem lies in the cattle that are really, really hard to market numbered they end up. Not being as good as anything that's better numbered. I mean, and

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:23:31

Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:23:32

out there.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:23:33

Yeah, that's a problem.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:23:34

And I've taken this step back. I've taken a step back several times. I'm sorry we keep stepping on each other'cause we're off. But like I've used cattle that I took the step backwards on quote EPD marketability several times and they weren't as good as some of the highly touted, big numbered cattle that sucked. And, and I know that that coin goes both ways. I'm not

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:23:53

Yes.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:23:54

it, I'm not saying it doesn't, but I think that the prescription is get more relationships, meet more people. Um, the harder people market the, the, it seems like any more, the less I want to see'em. Um, I wanna find these people in the middle of nowhere who are, know, you didn't even talk Corbin about spending time with David Cray. Most people don't even know who David CRE is, or a lot of people didn't for a long time. And he really doesn't care if you know who he is. He's just, I.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24:21

why, that's why I didn't bring it up.'cause David doesn't wanna be, he doesn't wanna be on, he doesn't want us to talk about him. You

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:24:27

No, he, he's gonna be I,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24:28

he's doing.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:24:29

gonna send me a text as soon as this comes out and he's gonna be all pissed off about it and I'm gonna have to give him a free hoodie over it. But the dude just wants to make good cattle. That's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24:39

Yep.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:24:40

Wants to raise his family. He wants to keep the family ranch and he wants to raise good cattle. tell you what, you find people like that, put'em in your circle keep'em there.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24:50

Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24:51

Absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24:52

Did you ever,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:24:54

Go ahead.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:24:54

did you ever watch when you were young, Joe, did you ever watch GI Joe?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:24:59

No, I did not. I had a GI Joe

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:25:01

I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:25:02

though, because there's this guy. Named, uh, I can't remember his name now, but I was at a preschool and I was little and I used to throw him alley. Oops. And this kid could dunk, right? He's like the tall 16-year-old. And he was, was my little buddy or my big buddy. And he actually had to go to the army to pay for college. And he, uh, mailed me a letter. Uh, I still have it at my mom's dad's house. Uh, and he included some little GI Joe's, but that's the only GI Joe exposure I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:25:27

the only person that would have that story, I swear.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:25:30

Vince brought that up? Because little known fact GI Joes use EPDs.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:25:35

No, no. But when I, when I was a young little lad and I watched gi I, Joe, at the end, they always had a, a little thing to teach you and, and the thing was, now, you know, and knowing is half the battle. Is that not so true in our life? This whole thing that we just talked about, EPDs knowing is half the battle. Knowing that it may not be as accurate as they claim. Knowing that your heifers can have a heavier calf knowing all this crap that we just talked about, that's half the battle. The other half is implementing it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:26:16

we had posters at school that said Knowledge is power.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:26:19

Knowledge is power.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:26:21

is power.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:26:22

So that brings me to my next prescription or solution that I've been on this soapbox and people disagree with me. More access to actual data, more access. I wanna shine more light because it is

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:26:36

Yep.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:26:37

sanitizer give. Give me the opportunity if we don't wanna put it on the Angus website. If I go into my own login, if I can go in and I can look at how, yeah, and I know, I know that there's performance pedigrees, but there's not enough information on those. We should be able to see. And if, if I'm shallow enough to say, well, that cow missed a calf and I'm, I, everything else is perfect, and, and I'm not gonna call that guy, well then shame on me. But I'll pick up the phone if they still have him in production, and I'll say, Hey, Vince Santini, uh, what happened here? And, and allow, allow that breeder to provide that context because they might say, well, actually she had a steer because he got, uh, e coli and so we just shipped him and we never turned in the data, but she has never missed. Um, or maybe there's something else happened, I don't know. But more access to those real phenotypes I think would be a wonderful thing for this breed. And I'm actually shocked that in the year 2025, we've devolved to a place where we're expecting breeders to just look at an EPD. I mean, that, that, that blows my mind. And, and I guess I could call every one of these breeders and say, send me his actual data and Yeah. And all those things, but. I just wish we could find that information easily at our fingertips. Just poke around on it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:27:55

I have a million I dollar idea that if I don't say it right now, I'll forget about it. But I've, I had this idea, it was yesterday or day before. I don't remember who even I was talking to about it. We have these interactive sale books on the Angus website. Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:28:12

Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:28:12

actually think I was talking to David Craig about it. How awesome would it be if you opened that sail book online and instead of there being a glitz?'cause'cause we're all attracted to that glitzy glamor picture where that bull looks awesome.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:28:23

Mm-hmm.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:28:24

if we open that sail book, that interactive sail book online, and instead of that picture, there was a video of that bull and it was just a kick ass video. And that video comes on right as you look. And so there's lot one, and there's this video. And then, um, you flip the lot two, the next page, and maybe lot five is the one that's, you know, you could have pictures too. Maybe Lot three has a picture, lot five. Here's a really cool video that would be freaking awesome and we should make that happen. don't know who I need to call to make that happen, but it would be awesome.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:28:51

Maybe some of us are already making it happen.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:28:55

Ooh. Ooh, that's exciting to me.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:28:59

No, I think,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:29:00

it happen and then let me know how it goes and

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:29:02

I think there's gonna be all the, the about the interactive space. This is, this is totally around the shoot'cause we left turn again catalogs and what they were five, eight years ago and then what they are now and how you into'em. Like the QR code thing that I had in my YouTube channel that interfaces with it and our ranch videos and all that. How social media is linked through. Uh, it's my goal to make my sale book a multimedia experience where people can learn about our program. And I mean, I just wanna. it's not that I want to do a better job of selling our product, I wanna be very clear with that. I wanna do a better job connecting with our potential customers so the right people are buying the right animals. that does not mean, you know, that also means the people who shouldn't be buying our livestock. Those are the people who just be disappointed by, by using them. I don't, I don't wanna have a disappointed user of our products.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:30:03

I don't disagree. Uh, a good friend of mine is just fixated on buying a calf out of this, outta this upcoming sale, and I keep telling him, look, you're a spring calving herd. This is a fall calf. Let it go. There's no sense in buying this thing and carrying it just it's not for you. Find something else. You know, don't, don't rearrange your whole breeding program over one freaking calf.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:30:36

Yeah,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:30:37

just let it go. Find something else.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:30:40

We need to have the marketing, the marketing, anti-marketing podcast at some point, I think.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:30:46

we

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:30:46

But I definitely see a big, big difference between, uh, boomers and then whatever the next generation is. And then the difference between that kind of group of people and then how we market our generation. And the younger wants to connect people who enjoy it and have the right products with the right people. The other ones are just like. gotta get my stuff sold. I gotta get my stuff sold, I gotta get my stuff sold. And I think if that's your mentality, I hope you're listening to us. And I hope these words mean something that Window's closing, it's closing on, you know, anything. I mean, food choices, people make car choices, people make clothing choices, people make every product that they buy, um, their expectations need to be met or they'll find something else. And so I think it's on us as producer of products, um, the products we sell, our cattle or embryos or whatever, we need to make sure that we're meeting our, our expectations of our customers.'cause they've already chose to partner with us. They're our partners. And if you don't produce something that does what you say you will, you're not a very good partner.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:31:54

Not holding up your end.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:31:55

That's right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:31:56

you brought up boomers and the, and whatever, I guess we're millennials, right? I don't know what

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:32:01

You might be a millennial. I think I'm a, I'm earlier than a millennial, like by a year or something. I'm probably in the same group as Vince.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:32:08

what the, uh, regardless of what the year cutoffs are, I, I wonder if it's, it's not too early to start thinking about marketing to that next generation because they come and, um, and how are they gonna digest information differently? And, and I think that's obviously what, what the idea behind having that interactive sail book is, is, is to make things easier and to make things more, more in line with what the digital world as, as what gonna happen going forward. I, I think that's constantly a moving target and as technology becomes available, I think it's good to be on the leading edge of it. Um, so yeah, it's, it's always fun to think about.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:32:50

Did you have

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:32:51

Joe, what year? What year were you born?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:32:53

I was born in 83, but

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:32:56

you're a millennial.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:32:57

no, no, no, no,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:32:59

You're a millennial. I looked it up.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:33:01

But my dad's not a boomer.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:04

I can't help that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:05

crap what your dad is.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:07

a, I'm a,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:08

you, bro.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:08

I'm a, I'm a Gen X

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:33:10

not a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:10

and you and Corbin are both millennials.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:33:13

I've, I've had like professionals that evaluate this stuff and they say that I'm not a millennial. I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:19

This says it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:20

to be a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:20

81. 81 to 2000 is a millennial.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:33:25

There's no year

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:26

that I'm in the same, same boat as somebody born in 1999. They're idiots.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:33:33

exactly. But I got a bow to tie on all this.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:36

But here's a whole different one that says

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:33:38

fine. It's gonna come up with Genchi.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:40

millennials are 80 to 94. Then you have the iGen slash Gen Z from 95 to 2012. Ooh, the new ones, the alpha from, from 2013. They did

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:33:59

'em Alpha? They

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:34:00

Alpha.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:34:01

the Covid kids called

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:34:03

The what? The Covid kids. They're alphas. They're alphas.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:34:06

that's wrong

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:34:08

Alpha, beta, Zeta. Either way, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a Gen X,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:34:14

Yeah. You

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:34:15

so I am an old

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:34:17

I think I got a good way to tie a bow on all this though. Uh, because

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:34:21

what?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:34:21

about they're coming, they're coming. think this new generation of consuming Angus genetics is gonna want more than the EPDs. If they're gonna want cattle that say they do what they say or do what they say they'll do. And I think some of these more qualitative traits, um, are hard to measure. They're hard to describe. That's your job as a breeder. There's gonna be more and more EPDs what we got four on the horizon for May three on the horizon for May. And a new kind of tinkering with dollar maternal. That's gonna include functional longevity. Don't freak out. Just keep, stay the course. Keep raising the kind of cattle you like and keep servicing your customer base. That's, that's my advice.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:35:07

Yep. I would agree.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:35:09

Yep. Yep. Couldn't have

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:35:12

to take it away?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:35:14

Yep. This is Vince's part.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:35:17

Well, well, you can say it. I was thinking about that today. I always hog it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735: 1:35:21

No, but it sounds so good when you say it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:35:23

Yeah. I like it better when you do it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736: 1:35:27

Okay. Catch y'all next week. Take it away.

1:35:34

We'll see you next time, Around the Chute.