Weaning Wisdom

In this episode of 'Around the Chute', the hosts discuss various aspects of weaning calves, emphasizing strategies for minimizing stress, such as early introduction to feed, fence-line weaning, and careful observations for health issues. They also delve into the importance of contemporary grouping for accurate performance data, sharing personal experiences and best practices for splitting groups based on factors like age, treatment, and environment. The conversation includes insights on vaccination protocols and the benefits for planning and preparing for a successful weaning process.

Transcript

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 0:01

Should we just go for it Welcome to the Round the Shoot podcast. I don't know if this is gonna work out good. I'm really confused

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 0:10

Have you guys noticed this? I noticed this the other day. If you want to, almost every issue, if you choose to see the good it's there and if you choose to see the bad, it's also there.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 0:23

and you know, what else.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 0:24

much is just a matter of

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 0:25

Do you know what else I've been noticing a lot lately is that once someone latches onto a certain thing, like let's say me, you and j me, you and Vince are considered to be a part of the maternal spectrum of the Angus world, right? I'd say generally speaking, that's, that's what we would be looped in with. Well, I feel like people within these certain realms are so quick to just defend everything that goes on with inside the walls of their own confines. And I'm just sitting back, like I, I sit back and look at this presidential stuff, everything that Donald Trump does, and I'm like, well, I don't really agree with that. But it's so funny how there's a lot of people that they will refuse to disagree because it goes against what they are are standing for. So do y'all notice stuff like that?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:20

tribal, tribalism, right?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:23

yeah, absolutely.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:24

what they would call it? Tribalism? Yeah. And, and on your maternal thing, how many times has it been, if you get kind of, that's where you think you kind of fit, but then there's a certain faction would be like, well, he's not maternal enough. And there's another like, you are this or you are that. And it's just, know. For me, all that stuff is so tired anymore. I, I saw some stuff circulating this morning where I'm just, and some phone calls I got and I just went, you know what I, I'm trying to disassociate with that stuff because generally it's not my customers. It's not my family. And so it doesn't really, excuse me. It doesn't affect me unless I allow it to. So I just started to, these, these people who are a drain on my morale or a drain on anything positive. I've tried to just

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 2:12

absolutely.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 2:13

be

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 2:13

Absolutely. Same. And like. At this point in my life, I don't really aim to be a part of any sort of specific group or thing. So I've got my own family, I've got my own way of breeding cattle. I've got my own way of running them, and I don't really strive for anyone else's approval. And I think that that's freed me up into making some, some decisions that have really been beneficial for, for the way the, the way that this podcast is going, the way our business is going and the way everything goes. I think if you kind of do things on your own and you kind of have your own way of thinking that it can lead to some really promising things, um, rather than just doing everyone else does because they're doing it.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 2:57

I had a, excuse me. I had a good friend of mine talking about all the negativity in this world. He, he and his wife had gone to Home Depot and he's like, Karen, I'm just gonna tell you right now if I go in here and, and somebody starts talking to me and they're negative, I'm just gonna walk away. So he said, he bumped into this guy he said, he just started just going off about this and that and just was, everything was negative coming outta his mouth. And I just stood there for like two minutes listening to him and he was in mid-sentence, and I just turned and walked away. You just gotta know this guy. He's

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 3:38

That's hilarious.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 3:39

a awesome dude. He's just a awesome dude. And that's just where he is

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 3:42

Is he a podcast listener?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 3:44

it. Uh,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 3:46

Oh man. Maybe he needs to be.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 3:48

So I've noticed though, tying this back to the cattle thing. I'd rather just test the kind of person people are and how they feel about their family, how they feel about their friends. And I'd rather hang out with people like that than people that have a similar biological type to cattle and don't unite with me on those deeper level things.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 4:07

Absolutely.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 4:09

I'd rather just find, because I think, I think when your deeper level stuff is connected, then that's your high

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 4:15

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 4:16

and it's not the cattle and it's not that stuff that comes along with it. And, and I think generally what you end up finding is there are a lot of similarities in your program and a lot of cross contamination on genes because you've found that there's kind of, I'm reluctant to use the word truth'cause I know somebody will be all polarized by that, you know, but just, I, I think that. who live their life by a certain way, do things a certain way. And that doesn't matter if you're from Tennessee, Oklahoma, California, Texas, Arkansas, really doesn't matter. You're, you're really quite similar. actually, I mean, that's why we're all in this business anyways, right? It is like, because general sorting cattle is the same in California as it is in Mongolia, as it is. There might be certain customs, but cattle bounce off. They don't, they don't know your language or, or

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 5:06

Right,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 5:08

nature, the ebbs and flows of seasons. They may not match up perfectly, or you may have different challenges, but, that's the stuff that unites us. But boy, you talk about cannibalistic. This industry and this breed specifically can be pretty doggone cannibalistic. And I would even say, um, I'll, I'll admit guilt and say that early in my Angus journey and maybe even early in my podcast broadcasting, um, maybe I was a little immature in, in how I thought about other people's genes. Now I'm like, you know what? If you want to do that and that makes you happy, and that is, is what your customers want. That's great. That's lovely.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 5:43

I think it's, I think it's, we've all kind of, and I've noticed it with each one of us, that we've all kind of grown in different in that way in that. I feel so much more accepting of other people at this point than I did three or four years ago now. You know, used to be, we used to get on Facebook and on like those AI discussion Cyrus pages and just like, think, what are these people talking about? And I think now it's like, I don't really care what they're talking about, but I respect their opinion and, and that's a great, that's great that they have one and I'm proud for'em, but you know what I mean? It's

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 6:18

it's, I'm fine with however they want to do, as long as they're not saying, well, you are doing it wrong and you should be doing this, basically what I used to do to others. But, um, look, it's all, it's all fair game. I mean, if you want to take this path because you think it's easier to market, go for it.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 6:40

absolutely.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 6:41

If you want to take this pass because those are the kind of cows that you like,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 6:46

Yep.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 6:47

it. Do

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 6:47

Yeah.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 6:48

You should do it. You shouldn't do something you don't want to do just because somebody else has talked you into it or somebody else is doing it that way. Do it because you want to do it.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 7:00

Speaking of just doing it because someone else did it that way. What about the Shadu Sanders deal? Joe, have you been following that?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 7:09

I have, but I've got two dogs that sound like, I don't know if we're trying to get broke into by the cartel or what, but I mean, it sounds like a war zone in my living room right now. I don't know

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 7:19

Amy can tune that

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 7:20

I can't even hear it. I.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 7:23

I can't either.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 7:24

so the Shado Sanders stuff, that's super interesting to me. I mean it's, it's an interesting social experiment of how you better be in tune with who's doing your third party verification of the quality of your assets. I mean, listen to your customer, because those folks were very assertive and on the talent tolerance level, it looks like his. Tolerance was lower than their expectations. And I'm sure there's other reasons too. Maybe his evaluation wasn't that good. I don't know. I'm just guessing that a whole bunch of NFL owners just thought, we're gonna hire an employee. We're gonna invest. Especially that first round, Corbin Juicy is like 45 million for some of those

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 8:07

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 8:08

and

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 8:08

Yeah. We're spending a boatload of money on you.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 8:11

gonna spend 45 million on a person that really doesn't care to have an interview with you or does care or whatever. I mean, I would be on my best behavior,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 8:21

Yeah. It's the most critical time. And what's crazy is that that whole camp, which I kind of feel like it's been Dion, I feel like they've all just kind of been in it together. And they, they, they do everything together. They campaign together. Um, they try to get'em drafted together. They did every single thing right from Jackson State to Colorado to getting'em to the draft process, to having'em be one of the top ranked. Recruits in the country. I mean, it wasn't very long ago we thought, oh, this guy's going number one or number two for sure. And then they got the, they got it to the barn and then the door was closed. It, it's, it's crazy to me. It's crazy how they got, they did, it seemed like they did everything right until they didn't.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 9:03

Well, and how many times have you had people say about the Angus business? This business will humble you. This business will

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 9:08

The NFL will humble your butt.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 9:11

Life

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 9:11

Absolutely.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 9:12

You know? And those guys got it earlier and maybe there was something else. I don't know. I'm not an expert or anything. I just, I thought it was a cool, fun story. Um, I was enthralled by it. I was watching every game. And I'll just say, as a viewer, something happened, I don't know, mid-season, this season, beginning of this season where a light switch switch for me in the act was a little

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 9:36

Absolutely.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 9:37

Um, and I still love Travis Hunter though. How about him?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 9:41

Yeah,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 9:42

like a good, seems like a good dude. Seems like he's, I, I don't know, but it sounds like he's involved in charities. Always got a smile on his face. Always seems to have a good attitude. There was some sideline stuff, just looked like outta passion maybe, but generally just a hard, hardworking, super talented, humble

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 9:58

yeah,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 9:59

never met him.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:00

yeah. Do you know, um,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:01

I never

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:02

never met him.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:03

got cows?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 10:03

on the round the shoot, I

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:04

Has he got cows?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:05

Do you know who that is? Vince.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:08

No,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:09

Vince

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:09

I don't have a clue.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 10:10

do you remember how much hate mail we got talking college football? Maybe we should talk Rick, Rick Ross in the cattle business instead. Whatever happened to that?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:16

Ricky Rose.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 10:17

remember

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:17

what? Uh, he did a video one time and he, he like wrapped a word and he spelled it wrong. What was that? I don't remember what it was.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:26

I don't think you can misspell anything when

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:28

Ralph. Um, yeah, I bet Rick, I bet Rick listens. I be, he listens.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:35

bet he's a listener. Yeah, I

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:37

What town is he from? I'll look it up.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 10:38

I know Xavier Legette listens. Is it

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:41

Atlanta?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:42

boy. Yeah. He rides his, what's his,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:45

don't

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:46

what's his horse's name?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:47

I don't know who that

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:48

Dollar be. Dollar be

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 10:50

What are you

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:51

He's named Dollar Be,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 10:52

That guy is, he is incredible. That guy's country.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:55

yeah, yeah,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 10:57

Yeah. He's

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 10:58

yeah. He's funny.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 10:59

a cool dude. So what are we talking about today, Vince?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 11:02

I don't know what we're ta I don't know any of these people that we're talking about. Xavier Hunter?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 11:07

we've bantered for 12, 13 minutes, but it says on Corbin sticker probably

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:11

Yeah. I'm ahead of you.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 11:12

we don't even know if this episode's any good.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:14

Do you,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 11:14

It might be layered on, do you want to do

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:16

Vince, do you know, um,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 11:18

not

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:18

let's start naming some names that Vince might know. Caitlyn Clark. Angel Reese. He knows all the women athletes for some reason. He knows all their names, but he doesn't,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 11:28

that's what Amy watches at the house. So I sit there and I watch it with her as a good

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:32

yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 11:33

WWNB a's not on right now. Is it?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 11:35

Now it's fix and

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:36

Ooh, it's fixing the start. What about old Hailey Van Lith? Lith getting drafted to Angel Reese's team?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 11:44

I don't know who that is.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 11:46

I couldn't

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 11:47

I didn't watch the draft.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:48

went to TCU.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 11:50

Oh

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:50

Yeah,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 11:52

So what are you guys doing around the, around the

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 11:54

around the shoot.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 11:55

I was just gonna tell you,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 11:56

around the chute?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 11:57

uh, right now I've got a jacket on as Corbin Astutely observed, and I'm enjoying some rain, some late season rain. it is nice. It is nice

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 12:07

We enjoyed four inches and 30 minutes yesterday.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 12:12

has been. It's that time of year though, isn't it? It's where

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 12:15

It was

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 12:16

it can just come in bunches right now, and it's really wet here right now. And it's one of those deals where you're like, oh, I know in June, June 10th, we'll be like, oh, I wish it would rain, but it's wet for now and the grass is growing. Cattle are fat. I guarantee you, you don't wanna stand behind one right now here. You do not wanna stand within like a hundred feet because they could get you

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 12:42

Did y'all see my snap where it was? That bottom was flooded across my house, but where it was exiting under the bridge, it was like, God, it was so violent.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 12:52

violent.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 12:53

Isn't

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 12:54

you not see that?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 12:55

Yeah,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 12:55

fix before your sale?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 12:56

Uh, every time it would get a flood. Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 12:59

That's the

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 12:59

Every time.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 13:00

to fix to,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 13:01

No. To, didn't fix that. No. They were, they were fixing the show runs where we had display cattle.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 13:08

that's right. Display cattle.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 13:10

Display cattle. Anyway, so have you guys weaned yet?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 13:15

no,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 13:16

Anybody? Anyone? Anyone? What? Are you

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 13:18

J Joe has.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 13:19

old?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 13:21

I have. Yes, I have. And

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 13:24

How do you wean them?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 13:25

How do I wean'em? Um, whew. That depends. Depends on where they're at.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 13:32

Does it matter if it's at a different ranch for you? Where you wean'em? How you wean'em?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 13:37

does.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 13:37

Okay.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 13:38

does.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 13:38

So do you wean'em different? Different ways?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 13:41

I'll tell you what we just did. Um, we've got a gathering field at that one ranch. It's, I don't know, a hundred, 150, maybe 200 acres. And we spent three days gathering into that field and then made sure that we had everybody. And then we gathered early in the morning and started hauling calves

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 14:01

Hold them away.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 14:02

it'd take about, it would take about an hour and a half. One way. So three hours round trip to get

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 14:10

Whew.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 14:10

load. And so let me ask you, what do you think of those weighing conditions?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 14:16

Oh, I bet they wouldn't be. Very favorable.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 14:21

I don't think they're very favorable, and I don't think they're very accurate

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 14:24

I wouldn't weigh'em right then.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 14:25

No. So our main goal when we do that is get cattle comfortable.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 14:30

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 14:31

I, I don't love them being in a small, tight area, but we darn sure make sure that they can't get out. Like steel corral, no wire. I mean, it is, it is like a cage

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 14:42

Right.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 14:43

you know how they'll get in that trance and they just ball and it's like they'll just walk through

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 14:47

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 14:47

wire, everything, and they'll get back to mom. um, so we'll lock up cattle like that. As long as I feel like they can't hear their mother, if they're far enough away that they can't hear their mother, that'll work if we haul'em out. Um, and so that's where, that was the situation we had here. I think we left them in that tight area. Then we can open up our Carell and make it a little bigger after a day and a half. Just give'em some room to breathe. But, uh, we keep it pretty tight so they don't just walk and walk and

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 15:16

Right.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 15:17

and walk. Make sure that all the, we have these hay racks and I don't like the hay racks that are above their eyes because they're like, lift their head and then they pull hay out and they'll get bad eyes or whatever from the, the, the hay. And so we make sure it's bunks that they reach their head down in. We put a whole big bale in there of alfalfa, whole ba big bale of o hay and all the feed they could more than what they need so that we don't have to try to drive a, drive a tractor inside those cattle that are bawling and wanting out of that area. And

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 15:47

You don't

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 15:48

Like a

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 15:49

go.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 15:49

a half. Hang on one second. Um,'cause I'll forget it again. We open that area in about double the size and then they can get more room and we don't worry about'em. Just pacing and pacing and pacing.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 15:58

Right.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 15:59

were you gonna say?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 15:59

I was just gonna ask about the alfalfa. You don't, uh, have any issues with'em? Just gorging on it.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 16:05

Our alfalfa is never that good.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 16:07

Oh, okay.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 16:08

I, I never buy high, high, high quality alfalfa because the dairy markets out here would lap up all that and it's so doggone expensive. And then also, we don't have equipment, so we can't blend that stuff or

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 16:21

Right.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 16:21

that. We've gotta be able to just feed it. Um, it's funny, I was just helping a, a dear friend of mine this afternoon who is having some health stuff going on and stuff, so went down to their place and, and, uh, they had a calf bloat and die. Well, they are notorious, notorious for buying the finest quality alfalfa they could buy.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 16:41

no wonder it bloated and died.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 16:43

exactly. And I'd rather keep those cattle kind of tight. I think a lot of times they need gut fill, they

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 16:49

Yep.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 16:50

and they need that gut to be working. And I actually think it increases their appetite because they have to have so much gut fill. It like expands their rumen. And then when you start actually adding energy to that diet, those cattle gain incredibly well. Now you, our cattle are, they're full right now, but you aren't gonna want a lot of people to see'em. I mean, it's hard for, it takes the stockman to see potential in those cattle that don't have fat pos up on their hips anymore. I mean, open up social media guys and tell me a calf that you ever see that doesn't have big old fat pos or blown out brisket or old sappy bellies they call it or whatever. mean, those calves have never seen very many bad days. But, um, we've

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 17:33

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vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 18:56

Who is that brought to us by?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 18:58

Brought to you by a GI always gaining. Introspection

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 19:05

What

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 19:05

you noticed that chat GBT likes, introspection and

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 19:09

existential.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 19:10

you can say, well,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 19:12

It's,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 19:12

neither of which you

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 19:13

it's really hard to say exist. That one existential. There's too much.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 19:19

as many times as you said it by now, you should have it

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 19:23

If I'm not doing a, if I'm not trying to beedy like sound smart, I can say existential pretty easily, but if I'm trying to sound over the top, it's hard for me to say existential when, oh, I just did it. Okay.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 19:36

hard is it to read those things and add

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 19:38

I couldn't do it. There's no way.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 19:40

Um, I'm pretty good at talking. I, I gotta have a conversation with that wall over there, Joe.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 19:48

Yeah, that's true. so, um, I don't, I, I want somebody else to move on'cause I've been pretty dominant to this weaning thing so far and I'd like to hear what you guys

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 19:58

Well,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 19:59

say our young calves, we do differently. The young

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 20:02

how do you do that?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 20:03

but No, go ahead.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 20:04

No. Do you fenceline those or what?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 20:07

do fence line those and uh, but I'll get into that process later'cause I have a very specific fence line process. But tell me how you wean up that last set. You, we.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 20:18

So we have used the wiener rings and we generally will

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 20:23

Wier rings.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 20:24

at least I didn't say dooo like Joe. Um, I have used those Corbin. Um,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 20:34

we just lost our family rating. Gone. Uh.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 20:38

so when it's spring calves and you're trying to wean'em in August. Um, if we feel the need to go ahead and wean them, we'll use those sometimes. Uh, I haven't used them in a while because so many of'em fall out.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 20:54

they fall out. You know, I, I went on a,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 20:57

used to work here.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 20:58

I went on a ranch tour one time and, and they put'em in the cows and it didn't even, because they're, they had a problem with the cows sucking other cows and they just, we dreaded around there. It didn't even stop'em at all.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 21:09

Well, there's are, there are some calves that

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 21:11

Yeah.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 21:11

out. hunter that used to work here noticed one time so we had three fields and one field lost way more of the rings than the others. he got to notice, and they were all around the creep feeder, and he said the, the other fields had like, um. Panels, cattle panels making a creep pen with no sides on the creep feeder. But the ones that had the sides, uh, the best we could figure out was like they would, you know how they get wedged in there and packed in there and they try to turn, they'll just'em right outta their nose. So it is better if you are creek feeding to have a big pen so they're not as, uh, tight in there and they don't rip'em out as easy. But anyway, um, the ones we just weaned, we did like you Joe, we gathered'em all up, sorted them, hauled'em to another farm. I can't get'em far enough away that they cannot hear their mother, but the barn we use for weaning fans in it. So I turned the fans on to make a lot of noise

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 22:20

So they can't hear him.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 22:21

and I That's right. was listening to a, guy talk one time about that and he was talking about putting a radio on or. Something really loud, fans, anything where it kind of gives them a consistent noise, it soothes'em. Plus they can't hear their mothers, so we leave them locked in this barn. Uh, it's a pretty big barn, um, for a week, and then we'll turn'em out to a pasture. Um, we're fortunate enough to, the way this barn's set up, they have a trough where we can be on one side and they can be on the other. So we just square hay'em. And I actually, since we creep feed and I do not like pulling them from their mother and cutting'em off feed all at once or changing their feed, will feel the bunk, one bunk with feed and the other two or three bunks with hay or ha maybe two bunks of feed, two bunks with hay. And then they have it if they want it, and it's not changing anything. Um, and then once everything kind of gets back to normal, we will switch feeds and our, our, uh. Developer feed is similar to the creep, so we just stage it down full feed to, you know, uh, like the heifers will be on. We're gonna get them down to six pounds a day and the bulls be on like eight.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 23:45

And that'd

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 23:46

I,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 23:46

like super high protein. high fiber, right?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 23:49

um, it's a really, I'd have to look, but it's just a really slow grow ration. I didn't want anything hot, I didn't want anything to push'em fast. I just want'em to have nutrients and grass. And I, whole goal was, we used to do way more and we used to do a different feed and it was pretty hot and I just didn't like it. Like, so I, I worked with a nutritionist and we developed kind of a slower grow ration that just kind of gives'em what they need to keep growing. It doesn't push'em hard, doesn't push'em fast, just kind of lets'em do their own thing. And then of course, so I try to get'em out to plenty of grass and let'em do it on that too. So.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 24:31

So back in the day, we used to creep feed and I had a nutritionist make us a pellet, um, and shout out our toys, feed, and, uh, west Cha we made one. It was like. We just want cattle to be able to eat. If there's nothing to eat, that's it. We don't want any PS on the calves, none of that. Because when this grass starts really getting after it out here, that's all the nutrition. Actually, we got to one bunch of cows, Wyatt and I did yesterday. those cows up and just trying to move them. They were so full and it was like their front ends hurt, like the, like maybe there was their feet hurt because the feed is so hot. Just, just grass. So anyways, we took that, that ration. And, uh, we hand feed those bulls for about 30 days before they go to the grow yard to where they'll be developed the rest of the time. And this is going from a 1200 acre pasture grass and mother to hay racks. And then we start gradually hand feeding them that pellet. And what I like about that is it a person, it, it's not a very glamorous job, but a person is dumping that feed in the bunk and those cattle really gentle down, they quiet down, they start, you know, because you put 90 bulls in a pen, and those things can be pretty flighty.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 25:50

Right.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 25:50

uh, that, that pen that they get fed in now is actually all hot wire. But then we take surveyor flagging and we flag all of it so that it has a real visual barrier for them too. And, and generally some of them will be curious and lick that or sniff it or whatever. Um, but it trains'em to the hot wire as well. And then, you know, by then the ball's out of them and everything. But, um, I, you mentioned creep feed. The years we were creep feeding, I think our weaning always went the smoothest because they had a very consistent nutritional pattern, you know, like a plane or whatever. You just wield the creep feeder to wherever they were going. And generally you just had to, you had separation anxiety or whatever it is from the mother, but nutritionally not much changed. I mean, at that point in their life, they probably weren't getting anything outta milk anyways. Um, what do, what do you do Corbin?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 26:40

Well, I do, I did like something you said there, um, about CRE feeding a knot. I, I get you're Notre feeding. Now, one thing I like to do before I wean, um, and this is no matter whether I'm weaning in the fall or in the spring, because we're gonna wean some late spring here, you know, into May I. Once it quits raining so much, and it's not just mud everywhere'cause it needs to be dry and not too hot so that we ca sometimes we'll get a window at the end of May. We just have to watch the weather and kind of play it by ear As far as the weather goes, um, I always try to make sure that my calves know what feed is, um, if I,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 27:18

Instead of waiting till after you wean'em and then

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 27:21

I want them to know what feed is. And so a lot of times, so I'll have little creek feeders that I'll go put, you know, 200 pounds in so that they can, you know, so that they can get in there and know what that, know how to eat out of a trough and their mother's not beating'em to death to get'em to not eat. And then I'll also feed them, uh, go and feed their mothers and them on the ground. Some actually just to get'em to where they're coming to feed. They know what that feeder is and so that they, I. They recognize it and can go to eat. The one thing that I think is most important is keeping hay in front of them while I'm weaning them. Try to keep their bellies full, trying to have'em something to eat at all times. We too, go from a small pin that's about 30 by, oh, I don't even know, 40 by 40 maybe, which we will cram, you know, 70 or 80 calves in there, which seems like a lot. But my goal is to limit movement. I don't want them moving, I don't want'em pacing. Um, and so that's why we kind of wait till it's dry too, because if it's muddy, obviously it's just a mess. It's terrible. So, um, yeah, we try to put'em in a small pit and then we'll put'em in a big, I'll actually only keep mine up for four days and then they're out on pasture, gone. Um, I'll fence line wean, I'll let those cows ball out. It usually takes about 48 hours and then just as quick as I can, those cows are gone. I'm moving those cows on. Um, we'll drive them out of there. Um, and, and usually we'll try not to make it to where they're going to be in a pasture that's adjacent to where the calves will. We'll go out on pastures, you know, so I don't want'em to be even at 3D, three or four days. I don't want'em to be that close because um, they tend to want to get together. Even what sometimes even two weeks later, you can have a calf get back in with its mother and it'll go right back to second. It is amazing.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 29:03

Uh, so generally Corbin, my dad used to always say, those are your late breads or your opens.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 29:08

Yeah. Yeah. The ones that still wanna do that.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 29:11

The ones that are, the ones that are bred right up, they kind of wanna wean their calf too. And we're talking about age differences. My calves are bumping up right against the, they're bumping up right against the age limit. They're close. They aren't there yet. I think I have until first week in May before they're actually over the 2 0 5 adjustment and they're two old. Um, but those younger calves, we've gotta be sure they're in a week at our place. The older calves, you just get the ball out of them and they've been fine. Um, I, I didn't say one thing you said about bunk breaking the cattle and when we went from naive cattle out on pasture, this is just the other day. Um, and then we're training them to use the bunk. We have all the free choice hay I just talked about. we move to that hot wire pen, it's, it's a couple acres that they can go into and then we're feeding them in a bunk in the center of the, the field. We'll flake hay in those bunks and then we put. The little bit of feed on top of it. And by the time they leave, I think they're getting probably six, seven pounds of that.'cause that's a lot of feed by hand to feed

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 30:13

is.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 30:14

Mm-hmm.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 30:15

it's changed the chemistry of their, of their gut biome or whatever. It's prepped the bugs to be able to accept feed at that point. But I, I got on a tangent and then I got off of it. I really like how those cattle from big country like that, if they saw a kid move or a dog or anything, they scatter like quail and they get really, really trotty and it just builds and builds. It seems like you get a number over 50, it gets kind of

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 30:40

Mm-hmm.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 30:42

And so by hand feeding them like that, it kind of takes them out of

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 30:46

Hmm.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 30:46

And

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 30:46

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 30:47

of them wanting to scatter away, they want to draw to you. And um, I have the kids do that after Wyatt and I've worked with them for a couple days because I love that the kids aren't as careful. They fumble around, they jump off the four wheeler, they do make noise, they do dumb things and, and, and erratic things. And it just helps prepare those cattle to be a little bit more comfortable around

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 31:08

Yeah. Yeah. Myla she'll, I won't let her go in the pen with him, but I encourage her to get the dog, which I know you guys probably saw in my Snapchat this morning. She was out there in her underwear first thing this morning with the dog and a sorting stick, and she was just running through the mud. I don't know where she was going. Lucy's Lucy calls me and goes, Hey, hey, where's my la? And I'm like, uh, I don't know. Let me look. Oh, there, she's out in the pasture. I dunno what she's doing over there, but I see her. She's not hurting anything. So, yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 31:37

So Vince, do you, do you fence line wean them?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 31:42

We have, but we don't have a good spot for that honestly. Um, I, I just, I never could implement that really good to keep the calves in a small area. The best thing we can do is we've got a, uh, some sorting pens, uh, below the back barn, and then the pasture is right across the farm road. So. If cow pasture would, there would be two fences and a 35 foot wide road. Um, that's the best thing we can do. But it, it wouldn't be all of them. It would just be that group. So, don't know. I, I don't know that I've got a good spot for that, that makes sense.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 32:28

Corman, do you have a fence line

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 32:30

That's the only way I do it, but that's because that's the only way I can, I mean, I. Even with, I have cattle that are two and a half miles apart. That's as far, I mean, we're all joined up. Like we don't have, it's all continuous. We don't have any pastures that are off that we have roads to go across or anything like that. So if I, I have tried it before. I tried to bring some calves home from my dad's house, which is two miles down the road, and I left their mothers there and those cows actually were coming up my driveway that they, they could hear from that far and they ended up coming back, coming through three or four different fence lines. It's, so, yeah, we only fence line wean and it does, I've got, I've got a little catch pasture that's about 10 acres, so that's where I'll leave the cows while they're, while we're weaning them. And then from that catch pasture, there's four different pastures that they can go into. So I'll go open whatever gate I want them to go into and it's pretty simple. We've got everything that kind of works that way where I. If we're working cows or something, we've got a, we've got a pasture that, that we can stage them in overnight. So like, I know this is kind of off, off the, this isn't really off, this is kind of off topic, but if we're putting embryos in or, uh, we have to work a set of cows, I've got a 10 acre pasture that's right here that I can push those cattle into where they can stay. I'll usually push them in the night before I'm gonna work'em so that they're right there. Um, that's one thing about me bringing'em a long way that I don't like doing.'cause I have, I drive everything. I don't use a feed truck. Um, we use four wheelers and dogs, and that's how we pin our cattle. Um, I don't really like bringing them more than, you know, a mile or so, and then trying to pin them. Um, I know that a lot of, I, I've done it a bunch of times, but it's just me. So it's better, it's easier for me to pin those cattle by myself if they're paired up. If that cow is paired up with her calf. But if I try to move them a mile and then try to pin them, they keep, they wanna start looking for their calf and they know what's coming. And so it's easier for me to push them into this catch pasture the night before the next day. We'll put'em, you know, it makes it easier on me if I'm by myself. Um, so yeah, that's,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 34:52

We do that too we're, uh, transferring embryos or preg checking, uh, anytime we know we have a big day, we try to go gather the furthest groups from the barn and get'em up closer to the barn, we can also gather those pastures in

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 35:10

it's also, yeah, it's peace of mind too, knowing they're all right there too. So like,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 35:14

And, and instead of somebody waiting on you, oh, I got the vet up here waiting on me to transfer eggs, and these cows are not being cooperative.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 35:22

yeah. Yeah.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 35:24

we try to do

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 35:24

Try to do it the day before.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 35:26

Well, and have you noticed, I mean, I always tell anybody this who's helping me, especially this bigger country, you're training the cattle. You know, I, I, I had a friend tell me when we were putting out salt yesterday, he actually said he goes. He goes, you're the first one that ever told me we're training. You're training cattle. So I've tried to train cattle. I said, no, no, I'm not the first one that's training cattle. Everyone is training cattle based upon how you treat'em. It's just a matter of if you're doing it good or not for you in the future. But basic training them also means just, kind of a high level bluff, right? Because if you have 500 acres and you've gotta get'em through a 75 foot gate or a 16 foot gate or whatever, it's just a bluff that you get'em there.'cause if they don't want

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 36:09

Uh, if they don't want to go, they don't have to.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 36:12

I couldn't imagine trying to get him through a 16 foot gate off of that big of

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 36:17

Oh, yeah. It better come to a corner because I've, I've driven'em up into some corrals where it was just a big corral up on top of a hill and it's a pain in the ass. I'm telling you right now, I.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 36:27

especially if they

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 36:28

If they don't want to, if they know what's coming.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 36:32

So if you could figure out how to get those cattle close, it just, it's the peace of mind thing

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 36:36

Absolutely.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 36:37

it is relaxing to the whole crew. It's relaxing to the cattle. It's everything. But I have a little way, uh, I know that there's several people that fence line wean actually truly. Fence line, fence line, no carells involved. Um, I just don't have big enough hot wire pens or, or good enough fences to do that consistently. When we get late in the season though, I mentioned those later calves, those later heifer calves, and then some steer calves we have, it's too dusty and we don't have water. We don't have dust control in our corrals, and I don't want those calves in the corrals. So I actually, I have about a 12 acre irrigated field that's right next to our corral. I'll put all those cattle the day before. The pears into that irrigated field, and I don't know why, but dad has always told me that calf will go back to where he last sucked.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 37:21

They do.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 37:22

will go back to where

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 37:23

Yep.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 37:24

So I put those in the day before, make sure they've sucked a full time. And then first thing in the morning we'll gather those and we'll kick the calves back out on pasture and we'll lock up the cows.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 37:34

Really.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 37:35

that way the cows are breathing the dust and not those calves that could

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 37:38

And the cows.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 37:40

so

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 37:40

The cows don't pace as bad either,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 37:43

the cows don't taste as bad as either, and you can feed'em some junky,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 37:47

and they'll eat it.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 37:48

just gets their stomach full and make sure they get water and they're fine. And then we let'em out and they're, they're squirting milk on the ground and stuff, but the way they go out, that particular field does have hot wire. And every once in a while we'll have one kind of jump back in or whatever. Again, usually she's an open or a shortbread or something like that, and she's not gonna last long anyways, but we put'em back and then we just kind of. Rotate those cattle away from the corral that way on their own. Um, I love weaning cattle that way. We just can't feasibly do it with 150 calves when the cows are way down south. And it just, it, it doesn't work with the timing and we don't have the facilities down there. Um, so what

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 38:31

See.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 38:31

Yeah. Vaccination protocol. That's what I was gonna, I wanted to make sure we talked about that.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 38:35

what are you doing?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 38:36

Um, so it's actually, it te it is called V 45, which it's under the vac 40. It's superior uses it. Um, we give them a shot of bronchial, uh, respiratory shot two weeks before we wean'em. And then on the day we wean them. And sometimes it's not exactly two weeks and sometimes I have to wait till I wean'em to give'em their first round of shot. But the main thing is, is I give'em that, try to give'em that shot two weeks before I wean'em. That prepares them for like, if we've got dust or something that, you know, they're gonna dusty corral. They're kind of, that gives'em a little added, added layer of protection. Um, one thing I want people to really realize is that. Just, if you're weaning your calves and you're weaning steers and you're shipping those steers in 30 days or whatever, a lot of times they might not get sick for you. But if you're not vaccinating them and have them on a good protocol, they'll get sick on down the line. And so we want to prevent that. It's, it's, maybe it's an added step and it's a little extra work, but at the end of the day, you're gonna have a better reputation if you ha send your cattle prepared. And that people, those buyers that buy your steers, they're gonna have notes on all that. And so, uh, they'll be more likely to come back and buy'em next year if you, if you, I, I think you need to give'em two rounds of shots before you ship'em or before you do anything. But that's just me. I, I like to give'em two respiratory rounds of respiratory. I'll give'em a black leg, which it, it's a nine way basically, which that protect, that's just protect, protects them from certain diseases. Uh, what does it have? Uh, black leg. There's tetanus in it, certain certain thing, and then I'll worm'em and that's the the three shots I give. But what do y'all give? What do you give Vince?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 40:19

Oh man. Um, this year we've actually added a shot. it's, uh, we're just trying it to see how much it helps. It's for ticks and flies. doesn't, uh, I'd have to look it up. It doesn't the ticks and flies, but when, uh, those little bitty flies bite'em, kills'em.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 40:41

nice.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 40:42

And it's the same thing with the ticks. Now again, this is the first time we've tried it, so I don't know. I also give them a clostridial, uh, and a pink eye as well. The clostridial actually gets the, um, God, I can't think of it, but, oh man, I can't think of it. It has a type A in it of a certain deal that is very, it's not found in a lot of, um, a lot of vaccines. Um, what do you call it? Autonomous. It's

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 41:17

Mm-hmm.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 41:17

vaccine.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 41:19

yeah. Yeah, I think that's right.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 41:21

Um, but anyway, and then we give them, we give them the lepto Vibrio, not the lepto Vibrio. We give them the, um. We use live, we do it

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 41:31

You do live?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 41:32

and then two weeks. Yep. We do two weeks after. we do this, uh, seven or eight way depends on what's available, uh, with the black leg and whatnot. So we're doing five shots.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 41:45

you

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 41:46

I don't love that, but no,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 41:48

in a BOA shield, one shot or you, you don't Vista

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 41:52

it, it could be

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 41:53

I

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 41:53

in

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 41:54

give, uh.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 41:54

I'm doing that I don't

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 41:55

Virus Shield six is, it's a kil though. I quit doing, I used to do a live and modified live, mostly modified live, but I've gone to all straight, all kil and I haven't noticed a drop off. So, um, it's just one less thing I have to worry about. So, if, if the kill vaccine's gonna do its job, I don't have, I, I feel pretty comfortable.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 42:15

I use kilt as well. And for shipping fever I started using, um, there's this new, well, it's not new now, but I went to a dinner. Gosh, actually it was at Topgolf. It was incredible from a pharmaceutical rep. And the big science exploration at that time was on this stuff called New Pleura

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 42:33

Oh, I've heard of it.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 42:33

a killed shipping fever. And um, we've had great luck with it. I really, really like it. Now, if you're a commercial guy and or gal and you're selling into that market, it sounds like there's big time market differentiation on kil versus modified live. And most of those guys, if you're going to feedlots in Nebraska, Texas, Kansas, whatever, out from the west coast, they wanna see two rounds of modified live in those cattle. If I wasn't an AI program, I would have modified live two. But we've just seen that, you know, taking on one side or taking on the other. We were starting to see ai, um, results not as favorable as we wanted, and we switched to a killed vaccine and have had a lot more luck with that. I don't know if it's that or if it's something else, but it seemed to work. So that's what we do. Um. But I think that, uh, our calves, when we, when we pull their DNA, we're gonna pull DNA on all of them, make sure that their tags are all correct on all of them. We do not tattoo them because they all get freeze branded. And we, DNA, all of them because we have multi CI pastures too. So we don't even know who the CIS of some of these calves are until they've bend DN

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 43:38

I was gonna ask, how does that work? How does that work if you pull DNA on a calf, because generally I have single sire pastures, and so I know, I know what the calf is, but I've had some ear tags fall out and so I know it's a, I know he is a bull. I want to keep a bull. There's three of them that were in there, or, I don't know, it's, I think it's even more than that, but I don't know which bulls witch.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 44:01

I don't know that answer to be honest with you. I would call a GI because

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 44:05

can,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 44:05

a GI on that stuff. You have an answer, Vince?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 44:08

I know some guys that do it. They send it in before they register

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 44:12

Okay. That was my question.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 44:14

They, they, they send it in before they register'em. They give the parent the possibilities and then they'll tell you which

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 44:20

Yeah, that was my question was, was do I just go ahead and register what I think or should I, and I, I would, I would've guessed to just send the samples what I would've thought. But

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 44:30

There's a way to do it. I just,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 44:31

ours are all BIR numbers. I was just talking about if

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 44:34

yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 44:35

tag or something, how you do it. I don't know the answer to that. I would call gala at the association and say, Hey, I have this sample. We put an ear tag in her ear that says A and an ear tag in the other cow that says B. And we need to know who is who so that we

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 44:47

Right.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 44:48

in.'cause we didn't get'em tattooed or something, and they would work with you and help you. They're very, very good about that stuff in my experience. Um, but on the multi sis, I assign a, I assign a sire, quote

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 45:00

you do.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 45:00

uh, based on how the calf, based on how the calf looks and stuff. But then that would always get reverified, um, through

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 45:09

So how often do you get, I'm sure you get it right a lot of the time, but how often do you not, I mean, because. Is your multi sire pasture always. I mean, I would imagine some of those herd bulls are outta the same sire too, so it would be very tough to

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 45:23

I would say I'm more right on those than I am on AI calves that have gone

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 45:28

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 45:29

cleanup calves that have

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 45:30

Yep.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 45:31

'cause I'm like, what in the heck? Uh, you're telling me that's another clarion? And they're like, yeah, that's a clarion. Or this is an influence that was born at this time. And you know, I, I told you guys

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 45:43

I.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 45:43

hologram heifers, right? The my favorite, my favorite, favorite first calf heifers this year. And I, I said, these are supposed to be barricades. They were et sisters. And she goes, uh, tell me about Bruin hallmark. And I was like, hallmark. I sold him to a commercial guy. He was on the side of his mother when we were flushing her o So yeah, he bred the donor cows that year and they ended up being some of our best heifers. But, um, we do DNA and uh, you know, the other thing I do guys, um, I check scrotal on all the bulls too.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 46:22

Ah,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 46:22

that is noticeably way small or has a crooked testicle or one testicle or something, I just call it right then because I could

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 46:30

and it's easier.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 46:31

a tetanus shot, kick'em out on green grass and make a steer out of them rather than put'em in the feed lot and then figure out after I put a bunch of money into'em and everything else, that they aren't gonna

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 46:40

I've never measured a scrotal at seven months. What? What should I be looking for? For a circumference?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 46:46

I think he was just visually, did you measure him or are you visually looking at him?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 46:50

no, no. Not not

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 46:51

Just visually. Okay.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 46:53

look at'em. And, and it started Corbin with,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 46:56

I.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 46:56

bulls that had one testicle. And some of those injuries still happen when they're on feed. But, um, yeah, I feel quite foolish when you ship one with one testicle to the feedlot after he is been there, you know, three months and then go, oh, I gotta get

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 47:10

Yeah.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 47:11

Right. and you waste a lot of money.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 47:14

yeah, we try to look at feet. We try to, uh, if we see anything noticeable at that time or if we see somebody that's noticeably a jerk at that time, or, um, we'll identify, you know, the other one we do. Um, I absolutely love evaluating cows when we wean

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 47:32

Yeah. Oh, you can tell a lot.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 47:34

absolutely love it. You could tell a lot. You can tell the ones that really, really Mel hard. You could tell the ones that you thought, man, she looked really, really good and now she just kinda looks average. And then ones that you say, boy, she looked kind of average and now that her utters all engulfed, she looks better than some of the ones I had scored better or whatever. And just, I'm not saying that I keep data sheets on that, but it's just

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 47:55

Mental notes.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 47:57

keep in

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 47:57

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 47:58

and I, I like those cows that are concerned when their calfs pulled off of them too. I don't like'em to stay there forever, but I like'em to be concerned. I, I love those ones that get up on the fence line in the late calvers and they're looking right at their calf or right where they last nursed it. I mean, things like that I think are important to

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 48:14

it's, it's a pain in the butt. Like there's some cows that are a pain in the butt when you're trying to move them or pin'em, um, because they, they want you to get the heck away from their calf. But generally, and this is just generally, generally, those cows that are whipping the dog nasty outta you are raising the biggest calves. Um, generally they're doing the best job and they're the cows that it's like you, I always recognize'em because it's like, man, that's one of my favorites, and she's back here driving me nuts. But, um, yeah, I, I definitely think. Weaning time is a good time to pay. It's a good time to pay attention to how maternal that cow is. Anytime you're pinning a pear, you could tell a lot about a cow. I mean, you get a very good idea of what she is. Um, God weaning is fun. Do you like wean? Do y'all like weaning?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 49:01

Uh,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 49:02

I like it. I mean,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 49:03

like seeing, seeing what we've got,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 49:05

I love evaluating them. Um, so going in the weaning pen, what I do is, is I feed'em twice a day. I'll feed'em three pounds twice a day. Which drop the pin? Drop the pin lid. Sorry. Um, I'll, I'll feed'em three pounds twice a day. Um, so it's pretty much in line with what you guys are feeding, but I, that's one of the better times for me to evaluate, you know, which, does this one need to stay a bull? Does he need to get banded? Ooh, I'm really excited about this one. Let's see how this bull looks in six months. I'm, I'm, I'm wondering if he's gonna still be the best then. Um. Generally I have a pretty good idea of, of who the best bull is at weaning and most of the time it kind of stays that way there. There's occasions where other ones catch up, but, but it sure is fun to evaluate'em and, and heifers too. I really like, enjoy and evaluating, um, si groups of heifers. I like weaning. I do.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 49:58

Joe, you had mentioned once before about switching pastures

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 50:03

Yeah.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 50:05

the calves.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 50:06

Yeah. I had a commercial customer who, um, Theresa Ani, she was a big video customer, and so she'd have her heifers and her steers that she was shipping, both, both sets. The replacement heifers were at a different ranch. And so they were pretty balanced numbers. Like maybe they had 150 in one field, 120 in another field, or I don't even know, the, and the cattle were kitty-corner, and she would gather and peel the calves off and switch'em a set of cows. so. News to any purebred guys whose cows will suck, anything that'll try, um, in the commercial world or in big country, those cows will not want to nurse a calf that's not theirs. Uh, but then the social component is they have that mature cow there to provide some sort of, I don't know, I don't want to say

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 50:55

Emotional.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 50:56

but yeah. Yeah. I mean, I sound like a, a cattle shrink. But that social piece, um, they really, really resonated well for her. And, and why do we do all these strategies? You know, all these different things. It's all stress and stress is money and pounds and health and, and all those things. Corbin mentioned about the buyer down the line. I mean, of these cattle might be one shot away, one shot of draxton away from being profitable or not profitable. And, um. That, that's the real world guys. And, and so setting people up for success and setting these cattle up for success, I think is important. I think there's a lot of people who have tried a lot of different ways and, and you have to figure out what works for your operation. What I just told you guys about the cows getting locked up in the dust, I, that's kind of the long way around. It can be kind of a pain. That's because I don't want the calves with dust. And the calves can still come right up to their mothers of the corral. Now, if it's a little bit wet or we got a shower like we did today, and that ground's still moist and I could lock up the calves and keep the cows out, I just go ahead and do that. Um, so you just, I, I mean, some people use this sign of the moon. Um, I've never

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 52:04

I was gonna ask about that.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 52:06

I've never been savvy about that. I tried to, um, cut calves that way, but weaning, I, I haven't,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 52:12

I've done it

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 52:13

you've done it.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 52:14

yes, and sometimes I've done it by accident. And the reason why I know that I've done it by accident is because they'll ball for one or two days and they're done. And then there's other times that they ball for five to six

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 52:31

Absolutely. Absolutely. I've noticed that too.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 52:34

it, it is crazy. And the only reason we notice it, which we're in there, but when you walk in the barn, a lot of times if they're content, they're quiet and laying down until you walk in there and they start getting up and they start bawling again and But our shop is right beside the barn that we do it in. And like, in the shop working, you're like, man, I don't even hear them. Calves over there,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 52:58

Hmm.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 52:58

escaped? Are they

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 53:00

Oh my gosh. When I was weaning though, this year, they did get out. I, I had those. That is one thing we need to mention too. Use really heavy duty hooks on your gates because I, I had a really heavy, um, car carabiner, what do you call those? Carer? How do you say that?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 53:17

Those aren't heavy duty. They're like 250 pounds. Max Corbin, if you read the

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 53:21

That's the fricking fake ones from Cabelas. I got the real good ones.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 53:26

they're

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 53:27

he didn't get

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 53:27

Yeah. Probably,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 53:28

didn't get the

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 53:29

probably the four oh pound ones.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 53:31

He didn't get'em from Timo.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 53:32

You got the value pack

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 53:33

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 53:34

for

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 53:34

Yeah, they've been, they did a number on one of those, which I had never had happen before. But I'll tell you what happened in that particular instance. So, um, these calves had not been around anyone. They hadn't, they had been, turned out two miles away, uh, their commercial calves that I hadn't screwed with at all. I did not creep feed'em. I did not pay attention to'em. And they were the biggest calves we, we raised because they were on the best pastures. But, um, but yeah, so we get those in and, and Myla, like I told her to, she's running around the outside of the pen, you know, just, and they ran and hit that gate real hard and I, and I didn't think anything of it at the time. And then the next morning they were back with their mothers. I'm like, gosh, dang it. Um, but there's one more thing I wanted to talk about with weaning, if we had time. Um, so obviously we're weaning these calves and it's been two weeks and, uh. Joe, I, I just wanted to ask you and Vince both, how do you identify one that's kind of looking a little down? Let's look, maybe looking a little sick. How do you know when to utilize that drax?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 54:39

Better earlier than light. From my perspective, and

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 54:42

Yeah,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 54:43

told this by a really good friend of mine who was an old cowboy, worked in feedlots for a long time. He said, if you get out there at daylight and you find the ones with Dew on their back, I. They're getting ready to get sick.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 54:55

really.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 54:57

really try to find those cattle early in the morning. If they have dew on their back, you know, something is up. And I don't know, maybe that, maybe that doesn't apply to all environments. Maybe if you're in the southeast and there's more humidity, that's different. Vince. Um, we're in a really, really not humid area. So if,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 55:14

I.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 55:14

that animal's emitting humidity, it's sweating, right? Um, so yeah, I absolutely look at that. The other one I do, Corbin, because it's more of a nutritional change and kind of a pH balance thing. We would have more pink eye when we wean than anything. And so I make those calves. the sun on both sides. And, and it, I don't wanna say like, you know, I have 90 calves in this bunch. I'm going one by one and they're facing the sun. It's more of a

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 55:40

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 55:41

but I wanna see those cattle when they're just starting to blink. I don't want to see them where you could see cloudiness. I mean, that's too late. And, and my vet gave me these things that look like these pool testing strips, you know, like the pool

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 55:54

Yeah.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 55:55

Mm-hmm.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 55:55

don't have a pool, you take that and I, I mix it in a water bottle and then pour that stuff on the calf's eye and it'll show if there's a spot on

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 56:04

Really?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 56:05

And, um, those strips are

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 56:07

That's wild.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 56:08

set'em up, so you're supposed to put it on the eye and make the calf blink, and that'll work and it'll stain the eyeball. And, but I, I shake it up in a water bottle and pour it on its eye. And, um, it works fabulous when those, you could barely, barely see it. You know, you like, I don't want to even see it where there's a dent on the eye. I want to see it when that just, that spot has started and

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 56:29

Hmm.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 56:29

we patch it. Mostly the patches obviously provide some sun relief, but then also so that insects don't get on it and transfer it to another animal is what I'm always thinking. do you know, Vince, do you do something different for health? What do you do for health?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 56:44

You know, you there, you've had a lot of conversation about the calf's health. And I'm not saying that I don't worry about the calf's health, but I worry as much or more about the mother because I don't want them to abort an embryo or abort a pregnancy, especially when it's hot.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 57:03

Sure.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 57:04

my biggest, uh, deal. So my springs, when we them, and like I was saying in August or, or uh, early September, that's a lot of times I have to wait that long because it's so hot and I, I don't want a cow to abort. So, know, every once in a while in early fall, you'll catch that or two that the temperature will

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 57:32

Yeah, get really cold and then really hot.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 57:36

when that's when, and I might not should be doing it then because they've stressed when it was cool and then it's gonna get hot again.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 57:45

It's tough though.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 57:46

that's when I try to

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 57:47

I.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 57:47

it because they're stressing when it's cooler and not stressing when it's 110. Um, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but we don't seem to have a lot of issues either. I. So, yeah, I worry about as much about the mother, not the dust. The dust thing is a great idea. I don't have to worry about it in the, the way we do it. but can see where that's a huge problem on a calf that's balling or stirring up dust and sucking all that dust in. Um, but yeah, I worry as much about the, the mothers as I do the, the calves probably more really? Because, I mean, if calf loses a little weight, yes, that's huge for stockers, but for what I'm doing, it's not the end of the world. And I don't even think ours fall way off because we do, like y'all are saying, we're keeping'em confined. They're not doing a lot of pacing. out in a five acre pasture just pacing that fence all day long. Um, Yeah, I think all these things are really, really good practices. Um, but we generally, we will screw around and, we'll, we get ours caught too late, honestly, uh, like on a pink eye. I wish I could be that, that, um, ahead of it, but I'm not, and we've tried. I cannot get a patch to stay on to save my life. I wish you could tell me how to do

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 59:15

He doesn't know he is shaking his head.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 59:16

tried and tried and

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 59:17

I hate pink eye.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 59:19

mostly just makes me, it makes me feel

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 59:21

Yeah,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 59:21

especially on these fall calves.'cause they all have fuzzy hair on'em

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 59:24

yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 59:26

like something chemically changes with them. Have you noticed that? Like you have to wean them and then their hair starts falling off? like they have this big, thick dead hair when they're sucking the

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 59:35

Yep.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 59:36

And then it makes me think there's some hormonal change of no longer sucking a cow that I don't know. And,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 59:42

it's a loss of innocence.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 59:44

going

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 59:45

Loss of innocence.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 59:46

It's, it's, it's something bizarre, but the patches come right off with the

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 59:50

Do you? Do you use the actual patches or you use old blue jeans?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 59:55

I use jeans. Yeah,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 59:57

I think the glue gets more into the fabric of the jeans. And they'll stay on a little better than those patches,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:00:03

And, and if we get outside of this next two weeks, which hopefully we don't have many eye issues, um, they stay on a lot better after that. Shags kind of

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:00:13

Do you give a pink eye vaccine?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:00:14

make,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:00:16

I do.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:00:16

don't, and I wish we did Corbin, we don't. And I wish we

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:00:21

Why don't you

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:00:21

we will do that with the calves this year.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:00:24

There's not a good one.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:00:26

And, and here there's, they take swabs and they'll culture it and make your

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:00:31

uhhuh.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:00:31

always, I've had years I've done that and had terrible pink eye and then I've had years that I've not done it and been fine. And so, um, we need to do a better, we need to do a better job of that. I think. You know, one thing we didn't talk about though, guys, that I think applies to, uh, marketing, it applies to breeding, it applies to anything. Start early on your weaning plans. I. Like if you have that water trough that always overflows and you're like, dang, GoIT, I gotta fix that

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:01:02

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:01:02

do this. And then you've got three loads of calves coming in with goosenecks and guys going a bunch of different ways. Don't fix the water trough, then try to get all that stuff fixed ahead of time. We have like, um, panel feeders, feeder panels and where we locked these calves, well they'll squirt out of those still

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:01:18

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:01:19

big. And so the week before Paxton and I went to a different ranch and got a bunch of lightweight panels and lined all that just so we, I knew we would leave them in the iron part of the corral. It would be hot, everybody's tired and then we go, crap, we can't put these calves to bed, quote unquote, we gotta go line this and do that. So we just, we try to plan everything really far in advance. It's been hard with the veterinary feed directive, I think it's called veteran.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:01:44

Yes.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:01:45

feed directive. We have a great relationship with our vet, praise God. Um, to make sure that we have antibiotics on hand.'cause the last thing I want is to see a sick calf on a Friday. Afternoon and not have enough drugs to treat that animal.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:02:00

absolutely.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:02:01

so we try to have some of that on hand. Do you guys have anything to add?'cause I have a

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:02:05

I do too.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:02:06

big, big one. Okay. Add yours. Add yours first.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:02:09

One of the most important things I think we do before we wean is we clean out the pen, we're gonna put the cows in. Um, it's not a very big area. I do not want those calves trumping through two feet of mud. Fresh off a cow. Um, I know those pins can get kind of nasty. I know it takes some time. It does. That's one of the most tedious tasks that I do, is cleaning that pin out with a skidsteer. It takes a while and it's gross. I mean, that's nasty. It stinks. It gets you dump it in the side. The skid steer and the cab. It's something that's very necessary though. Um, those calves need somewhere to lay. They don't need to be laying in their own nasty crap. So, um, take the time and do that before you wean. What's yours, Joe?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:02:52

It's Vince's favorite topic,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:02:55

Quarter cc Straw.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:02:56

adjusted. Birth weights. Oh, he's got a lot of favorite topics, huh?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:03:01

He's an angry fella.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:03:03

Do you know what I'm gonna say? Vince? Vince,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:03:05

No, what?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:03:06

it.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:03:08

What?

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:03:09

Ah, the contempt.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:03:11

so stupid.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:03:12

uh, but there's a reason for it, right?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:03:16

It's stupid if you treat'em all the same. Why are we having to sort it up so much? I get the embryo calf part. I do, and I guess I get the first calf heifer part a little bit. But outside of that, I just, I, maybe I'm just too stupid to understand it. I guess.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:03:39

I think we're talking about different things because I think you tell me if you would disagree, tell me if you would disagree. You don't wanna mix cattle from a really, really good ranch with cattle from a really, really poor ranch. Right.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:03:52

I don't have that problem. I'm not that big a

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:03:55

So then it is necessary. It is necessary.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:03:58

that big. A ranch.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:03:59

Okay, here, how about this?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:04:01

I get it. These, there's ranchers.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:04:04

then you had one set of cows that you fed cake to all winter.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:04:07

Mm-hmm.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:04:09

It would

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:04:09

They were treated differently. Correct.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:04:11

would need to be in their own group.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:04:12

cattle and how they're treated should be all in the same what

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:04:15

But that's not how they do it.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:04:17

Well, we're talking about different things because I've had that happen too. And it's very frustrating where it's like, doggone it. Why did my contemporary groups get jacked with, and then we have to go back and

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:04:26

Yes.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:04:27

that's some computer stuff. But I wanted to read the guidelines. I have'em here. Um, I, I screenshot'em before we started talking. How will contemporary groups be split? And this is from the American Angus Association, um, a HIR web website. It says Cabs of different sects, bull or heifer are automatically pulled apart. So we aren't comparing bulls and heifers. We're comparing all bulls together. All heifers together, all steers together, 90 day birth window. Okay, so they have to be born in 90 days. So if they're born on August 1st, you can have an October 1st in there. If I'm

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:05:01

That's a pretty big gap.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:05:03

The younger calf is gonna get a really good boost on that.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:05:07

It's gonna pound them. But if you only have 10

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:05:11

You can't get away from it.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:05:13

you can't get away from it. Right? So I understand for smaller producers, um, groups will be split by group codes. So let's say Vince caked this set of cows. This set of cows got, uh, some o hay and this set of cows roughed it. He's gonna give different code designations for each of those CIA cattle

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:05:30

I didn't even know you could do that.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:05:31

you use aims right

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:05:33

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:05:34

now,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:05:34

Oh, you're talking about

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:05:36

Groups.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:05:36

Tammy's awesome.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:05:38

The best

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:05:39

Yeah. You're talking about

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:05:40

If you had a fantasy draft for best employee of American Angus, would it be Tammy?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:05:46

Tammy. It used to. It used to would've been Ramona Brown. Did you ever deal with Ramona?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:05:51

Gosh, what was she, she wasn't in names though, was she?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:05:53

No. She was in registration. She was so

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:05:57

Okay. Now name your least favorite employee at an Angus. Just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:06:04

I will. I've

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:06:06

Oh, I'm ready.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:06:07

I've got two.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:08

I know. And I know, I bet you I could

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:06:10

I bet you could too. Anyway, keep

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:06:13

Lb.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:13

love Tammy.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:06:15

I'm kidding. I don't, I just.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:17

register versus commercial dams. Natural versus embryo calves. All your embryo calves go in one group unless they're outta commercial cows. Um, and if you, if you want all your embryo calves to go against each other, and you only have like two hero red cows, recommendation

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:06:34

What is this? What just happened?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:36

the

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:06:37

Was

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:06:37

Is Paxton in there?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:39

usually get. Dear listeners, I usually get a thumbs up like I just got, but today I got balloons as

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:06:45

What

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:46

might actually mean that this recording is gonna suck and it's gonna be all jumbled

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:06:51

Joe?

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:51

Amy's

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:06:51

I just noticed that you're in a different place than normal.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:06:54

Come on.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:55

Okay?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:06:56

on, Corbin.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:06:57

We gotta keep going. So it's my recommendation. You have 10 embryo calves, two are out of purebreds, and eight are out of commercials. Why wouldn't you just call those two purebreds commercials?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:07:08

Yes. Thank you.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:07:10

I, that is my recommendation to breeders because you'll get a bigger comparison and it doesn't cheat anything on the commercial side. Don't lie and call those purebreds because you're gonna have to come up with a registration paper and that's how they contemporary group those differently. But bigger contemporary group that you can have that are of accurate, um, environmental conditions, ages and stuff like that, I think is, is the best that, that, that we can do for the data. And that's it. That's all I have. Um, if you submit like weaning weights and then that animal doesn't show up or shows up at a later turn in, so you turn in one set of data on Monday and then you turn a different set of data in on Thursday, they aren't gonna automatically figure that out, turn in the data based on the contemporary groups. and why, why, why contemporary grouping? Well, it's, so we could say that those animals are raised under. Similar environmental

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:08:06

I, I can see, I can really see the fact as if you treated a group differently. Saying, okay, we treated'em differently, so they need to be in a different group. But breaking it down 50 different ways is a bit much. I also see where a big ranch with of head, and just like you said, that maybe the, maybe the West Ranch doesn't have any grass, but that's the only place they had to put'em, so they had to cake those or something like that. get that. That makes sense. Um, and a lot of this view that I have is because this is what we've done here and they're not treated differently. Um, so my, my view is very narrow and it probably shouldn't be, but, um, that's all I've ever experienced was that. So it was very discouraging to me when my. Groups get shifted around on their own when that's not how I turned them in. I was always under the impression just I turned them in as one lump sum. So I wouldn't try to be anything because there's lots of folks that like to manipulate their contemporary groups to make one animal shine or two animals shine. Um, I always thought if I was turning'em in as a whole, it would be more accurate. But then by the time the association gets done doing what you just said, registered resets, commercial resets, bulls, heifers, first calf, heifers, um, two year olds, three year olds, six year olds, eight year olds, you know, they sort all that out. Then my contemporary groups get so little, it's not accurate.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:10:08

And you have one cal ratio, like one 18, and then you have three others. Ratio 87, 82. Like you're like, what

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:10:15

Yes,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:10:16

of the problem with being a smaller producer, producer in general. Um,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:10:20

It really is.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:10:22

And then you have somebody calling and they're like, oh, you, I saw that cow Ratioed 82. Like, no, she, she probably is not above, uh, she's a 98 kind of ratioing cow, but she was up against this longer that just throttled this small

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:10:36

yeah, she's up against the longer that's open that raised the piss outta one, you know, so that ratio ends up screwed up, but.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:10:45

How about this, Vince? Uh, do you pull your first calf heifers out or no?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:10:50

I started doing it in the last year, year and a half.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:10:56

How about you,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:10:56

I have six, I have six groups. I've got heifers, males, and females. So there's two

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:11:03

Yep.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:11:03

um, cows. Registered just adult cows. It don't matter. Once they're not a heifer, 3-year-old, the 10-year-old heifers and bulls. And then I've got reci, registered recip, heifers, et calves, heifers, and bulls.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:11:18

I do, I,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:11:20

What

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:11:20

I,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:11:20

your commercials? Do you

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:11:21

Is

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:11:22

resets too, or no?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:11:24

I, do I just turn it all in? I, I, I figured they're gonna sort that out.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:11:29

Yeah.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:11:29

They're gonna give'em all zero anyway. So,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:11:32

I don't, I, I haven't taken advantage of the fact that you can, I, I do use registered resets, but I have not taken advantage of. I haven't, as soon as they become a reci, that generally means here, that they've come up open or something's wrong with them, or I don't wanna keep something out of'em. So I haven't taken advantage of the fact that I can put them in my contemporary groups and get that ratio.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:11:54

I'll be honest, I'm almost to the

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:11:56

I.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:11:57

they screw with the data so much. I just assume'em, tell'em they're all commercials.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:12:01

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I didn't really ever see the benefit to it, so

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:12:06

well, I first thought there was a lot of benefit to it because you would get a ratio, but then they start taking into account all this stuff that I'm not even really sure that goes into that account. So

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:12:19

think it's with good intentions, but I think, boy, it's hard to verify,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:12:23

yes.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:12:24

of our

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:12:25

just,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:12:25

would be the ones with the harder to market EPD profile, like the six on birth to 70 on yearling growth.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:12:32

So they're figuring some of that in it.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:12:34

Yes, yes, yes.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:12:36

I've, uh,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:12:37

the

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:12:39

yeah, I've, I've always put the heifers together, uh, in their own contemporary group. One thing I'm thinking about doing this year is I, I've started running the twos and the threes together just because, um, the three year olds. I don't really have enough heifers to make a group of, I like to run about a group of 40 cows and I don't really have enough heifers. Spring heifers, there was 20 and 20, so I just put'em all together. So I, I'm, I'm mulling over whether I should put them all in one contemporary group or, uh, yeah. So I might have twos and threes together, um,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:13:15

They're gonna sort'em, they're gonna sort the threes from the

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:13:18

automatically. Oh, well

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:13:21

I think so

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:13:22

then I might as well just put'em all together and let them sort'em.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:13:25

do you, do you, do you, uh, do it online, Corbin or do you do it with

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:13:29

I do it online and honestly, what we're talking about right now gives me shingles, like it's on Vince's forehead I hate and, and inputting data.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:13:38

doesn't have shingles. He doesn't have

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:13:40

He got.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:13:41

because if you have shingles, it only goes to like one side of your

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:13:45

Yeah.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:13:46

be a line all the way down his forehead and it would be on the right side or left. This guy looks like, he looks like, what was it, the elephant man, where he is got like all that swelling and stuff.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:13:55

I look like the elephant man. Thank you, Joe.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:13:57

complexion looks good. I've been ask, gonna ask if you've been using some of Abby's vanilla flavored tallow because you look really shiny, but

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:14:05

I,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:14:05

part right there looks

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:06

Listen, I'm worried

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:14:08

more

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:14:08

Amy, Amy said, Amy was rubbing my head earlier and she said, you're crazy. Like, like a big bacon biscuit.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:17

I was. I can you imagine her saying that in her Tennessee accent too, Joe? Um,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:14:23

Oh,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:23

gold.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:14:24

like a big old bacon biscuit,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:26

worried. Vince, I don't think you need to go out in the sun because you've got so much oil on your skin. That's why I was telling him to put a hat on earlier. I'm worried he is.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:14:34

That's why I'm

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:35

I'm worried your skin's gonna boil off.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:14:37

brown

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:38

I'm worried.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:14:39

No, no, no,

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:40

You're gonna get skin cancer.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:14:41

Yeah. No, that's not, it's not shingles, but what were we even talking

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:44

I don't know.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:14:45

I don't know. Contemporary groups wasting

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:14:49

weaning.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:14:49

uh. The, the reason I switched on contemporary groups though, is I just felt like we help our heifers along. So it was, that was one piece. Um, but even if we don't help our heifers along, I just think that adjustment is a little bit aggressive. I don't like how it automatically hammers the older cattle. And, um, so I don't know. I pull'em out and if, if I have a similar ranch they're on with the three year olds, like you said, and they're all together, then I leave those, um, my deal really gets hurt because we have big ranches, but then they go down to smaller ranches. And so like our summertime pastures, the cows are running like a cow to an acre and a half, two acres. And so those little ranches make a bunch of little teeny tiny contemporary groups and then those cattle all wean together or a winter together. So that, that's a challenge for us because, um, to Vince's point about nutritionally, we have two different types of soil here. We have this auburn clay loam, and then we have this stuff called boomer loam. And the boomer loam is like, you would grow vegetables in that stuff. It is so, so potent. And the cattle gain so well, and where the auburn clay loam is, it's kind of junky grass. And the cattle are much different and the stocking rates are different too.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:16:06

So here's my view of it. You have an opportunity to try to your information as accurate as possible.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:16:19

Yes.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:16:20

you do not take that opportunity to keep that information as accurate as possible, by signing them a contemporary group, they're gonna do it for you. And they're not gonna do it, right. They're gonna do it the way they see fit. I don't, that is not a, a dig or, uh, uh, anything mean towards them. Whoever them is, it's the computer doing it. And if it's not sorted right, even when I tell them. I've had to get on the phone with Tammy before and she said, that's not what you sent in, but the computer put it there.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:16:57

Mm-hmm.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:16:58

I've had to go in and fix it. So if you don't attempt to, the computer is gonna try to do it for you and it's gonna screw'em up. So take the time to try to sort'em. The way you see fit is my, my little bit of advice and I didn't start doing it until a year or two ago because I was trying to keep all my information as accurate as possible by dumping'em all together because I didn't want to be one of these guys that makes contemporary groups of four or five.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:17:33

lessons? No, when you said not make contemporary groups of four and

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:17:38

I,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:17:38

I think that really resonated with me. Um, the contemporary group of four and five, I had, uh, Wade Schafer, who's the, uh, executive director of Simmons Hall Association. He told me four and five might be as accurate as you can get, and that's okay. Do what's accurate, do what's accurate, but

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:17:57

The,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:17:58

go ahead.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:17:59

the problem that I saw. Was, I know for a fact that were people back in the day when marbling first started coming out, and that was a big deal. They were cooking the contemporary groups. They would take these crappy three little calves and they would put this one they wanted to get as a shining star and get a really high EPD on so they could market the hell out of it, and they would put those in a contemporary group. Then they would do it again. They would take three or four more, put'em in this group and take this shining star. those calves all ended up getting cold, and then they had a pasture full of shining stars. So that's why I was trying to just dump all mine together because I wasn't trying to hide anything. I was trying to make it as accurate as possible.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:18:48

Yep, that did happen and it still happens. That's the beauty of performance pedigrees. And you find these outfits that are 500 cow deals with contemporary groups of three, and you're like, what? What's going on here? And just ask for an explanation. You

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:19:00

Right.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:19:01

assume that it's always bad, but ask for an explanation. Um, I just thought of something when you cut out and I was gonna ask you,

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:19:08

Yeah, that's true.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:19:09

lessons learned with contemporary grouping. I got a good one. 13, 21 influences Mom. Um, it was that cow's last calf. She was 12 years old, I believe, maybe 10. And her mother actually got really, really hurt when she was raising her, like really, really hurt and kind of half starved that calf. I was like, dammit, you know what? I'm don't have time for all this crap. And I turned in all the data, just all the heifers. Boom. have pulled that heifer calf out because it assumed that she had no growth because she ratioed like something stupid because she was starved on an old, old, old cow. And that age of damage adjustment factor hadn't kicked in. And it didn't, the, I contemporary grouped her wrong that, haunted that cow for several generations because that assumed growth was in there. Whereas if I should have done is I should have pulled 1321 out of the contemporary group, and I should have just said she was a contemporary group of one. She would've went to parental averages, then we would've dnad, or then her numbers would've been closer to what they were. My poor contemporary grouping, my inaccurate contemporary grouping, actually hurt that animal. Um, who's actually quite influential in our herd. Now

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:20:26

Interesting.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:20:27

that's a hell, that's a hell of a way to end. You don't have anything more exciting? The with messed up stuff. So it's funny is we had this set up as what a a three content

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:20:40

yes,

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:20:41

I think we talked enough about

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:20:42

yeah, that's all we had.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:20:44

That's it. Yep.

joe_2_04-26-2025_174002: 1:20:46

good.

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:20:48

Take us out, Corbin.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:20:49

Ooh, I don't, I haven't got, I haven't been allowed to do this. Have I

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:20:52

know.

korbin_2_04-26-2025_194030: 1:20:53

take it away?

vince_2_04-26-2025_194010: 1:20:54

I.

1:20:58

We will see you next time around the shoot.