Around the Chute

Finding a Clear Path

• Vince Santini • Episode 10

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In this podcast episode, the hosts discuss their experiences managing cattle, highlighting the importance of establishing a clear path in breeding and managing herds. They also explore the impact of environmental concerns such as cow methane emissions on cattle production and how external influences like donations and regulations affect their operations. The conversation emphasizes staying true to personal breeding objectives while balancing outside pressures and innovations in the industry.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

All right guys. We're

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Ooh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

32, 23 seconds.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Ooh. How come you're at 23 and I'm at 10?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

minutes. We've been talking for 20 minutes, and there've been no issues. I can't see Vince. He looks like he's a Minecraft character.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

He's got a really bad glare on his glasses, to be honest with you.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

my glasses or my head?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah. Yeah. He put lotion on his forehead. What have y'all been doing?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Hey, welcome.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

to Around the Shoot. remind people, they probably forgot we even have a podcast.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

is, I think this is episode 11. Is it? Is it episode 11?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

We skipped 10. We skipped 10. So, uh, apologies to everyone. We were all busy.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Or is

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

We,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

first episode of season two?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

no, no.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Podcasts don't have seasons.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Okay,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

it's kind of switching to summer now. So we went from cold to warm. I.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Okay. Those seasons

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

So the season changed. We're in a new season of life right now. Vince, is it raining at your house right now?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Uh, yeah, yeah.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

We're supposed to get three inches over the last, the next three days, but we got an inch and three quarters yesterday,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah. Before we go too much further, I just wanna, and, and our specific area here, and I know Vince's area had some tornadoes and stuff too. Man, my heart goes out to those people because there's, there's quite a few people that don't have a house anymore down here. Um, and, and that always hits really close to home for me because it's literally on our news. It's, and we're in the same viewing area. I mean, as a crow flies to some of these people we're 15 miles. And it seems like something tragic, like this happens. Every single storm season, and it just breaks my heart every time, even though I, you know, I've been on that end of it before, so my heart goes out to those people. I know what you're dealing with and I know that it's hard, but, um, as long as everyone's safe, it kind of all just works out at the end, in the end. And, um, just praying for those people that, that are having to rebuild. But no, that there's a, there's a sunny day ahead for sure.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

You had a, you got hit by a na,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

your

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

And, and yes, it could have been much, much, much, much, much worse. But yeah, we've been hit by, uh, and it was mainly the hail. The hail was softball size, hail. And so it took out, um, it did$150,000 of damage to my parents' house. And then it took out some windows here at my house. Um, in fact, heck, two day, three, four days ago, we had a tree. There's one tree going up my driveway. One, one tree. It's a big tree. And that one tree blew over the driveway, knocked two sides of fence out. I'm like, we had, we had one tree and, and, and of course the tree couldn't blow the other way, you know what I mean? Where it just would fall onto nothing. It had to fall onto the driveway and, uh, and over the fence. So yeah, we, we had to clean all that up and that particular tree broke into about 6 million pieces. So it was not like you could just,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

hate

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

yeah, it's not like I could just, it was dead. Yeah, it was dead. It's not like I could, uh, could push it up or anything. I mean, I, I had to pretty much, and, and I, and oh my gosh, there's more. I just redid my driveway, so I didn't want to take the skidsteer down there and track everything up and tear it all up. So I just piled it all up by hand. And it was a big debt tree and it took a while. And then, you know, once we just had the big stumps left, we cut it up with a chainsaw and pushed it all into a big pile. And I already burned it, but golly, that's a pain in the butt.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

It is. It is.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I got all kinds of stuff going on. shipping, customer cattle, shipping our own cattle. This next week we're gonna preg check cows and that's when, uh, we'll be getting our weights done. And, um. On all the cows and then the mature, I think it's height it's called or something like that you have to do within 45 days of when you wean in order to qualify. We might try to do some hair shed. Um, EPDs, I've never done that before. Most of our cows are shed out now, so I don't know if there's even enough difference in

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

When are you supposed to do it?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

The hair shed deal,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I don't know. I don't know if there's a guideline for it. Corbin, do you know it all?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

No, and I don't care.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

No way to be.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Being apathetic is not good. Corbin. We'll get to the apathetic second section here in a little bit.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

uh, we'll be there. I mean, maybe we need to wait to talk about it. Yeah, I'm pretty, uh, pretty done.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Well, so I'll collect that data. I'll get that turned in. Um, I used to think that freeze branding was the thing I hated most in this production season, but it's been replaced by data. It absolutely has. I turn in so much data, it takes so much time. talked to, uh, Vince and my favorite Angus Association employee last week, just trying to get a, a little heifer calf registered and transferred into a junior's name and then trying to get a junior membership. And, you know, those people at the association were incredibly helpful, but it should not be this hard in the year 2025 to get a junior membership blew my mind. Like, you gotta print off the paper, then you gotta fill it out, then you gotta re-scan it and send it to somebody. And I'm like, why don't we just have some fields that you just like fill in a field and send the field off. I mean, we aren't doing nuclear physicists physics here. We're, we're getting a junior membership that costs 20 bucks,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

But, and this, this could help with your tornadoes, Corbin. This could help with both of our tornadoes. Bezos money that's gonna track cow farts and cow emissions. Are we gonna have tab catalytic converters on our ca Will they be lytic converters?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

No. What's gonna happen, Vince, is that all of my cows are gonna fall on the wrong spectrum. And so they're all gonna be worthless. And as soon as we get done with all this data,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Why did we not do a fake commercial about this?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

we,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

We will,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Okay,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

will.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

spoil it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

You're just spoiled it.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I mean, a, I will come up with something a little different than, than we will, not much different, but a little different than what we could come up with. But yeah,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Well, it's,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

it's, it's, hmm.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

it's gonna affect everybody and. At the end of the day, is it, are we really gonna figure out something to make the world a better place to help protect everybody from cow

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Well, here's my question is, is is that 4.8 million, which correct me if I'm wrong, I think I send the association that by myself every year, but 4.8 million, is that really gonna, I mean, what is the gain other than that 4.85 million? I mean, you're not going to solve the world's problem. It's already well known that one, like and I, and I don't have the stats in front of me to know exactly what, but there's been studies done on cow farts before and they've come up with the fact that there are non-issue. I mean, if you think about it, there's a hell of a lot more people in the world than there are cows and. Uh, we fart more than they do so, so should we start eliminating people? And I guarantee you, our carbon footprint's way bigger than the cows. So I don't know. All of it's just

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

about something even more doable than that? Corbin, what about all the useless horses around? for people. Luxury. Pets, luxury. Everybody's got four dogs now. What's a carbon footprint of your dog? And that's why we live in America is so we can have those things for crying out loud is so the government doesn't tell us you can only have one dog. You can't have four dogs. Or you can, I mean, I just, could get going and going on this one for a long time as you guys were talking, I was trying to find this article that a friend of mine actually wrote in the Western Livestock Journal. Um, it was quite, quite good. You can go to my Facebook p uh, page and get it. But it was just quite interesting, uh, to see. He talks about the net worth of 190 billion of Bezos, which is and some change of the$89 billion value of the entire US cattle industry. his personal net worth. And so we're gonna measure cow farts, or we're gonna say we aren't gonna measure cow farts. Guys, I'm sorry. I, I mean, I, I think what's gonna happen here is that they are going to identify a gene that says that these cattle have or less methane emissions versus their growth. But it again, will be in a half baked program. Where it'll be this deal where we don't even consider, well, it doesn't matter how many open cows you have, if you select for that gene or how many have bad feet, we're gonna look at it, this one silo for this one trait and devalue a whole bunch of cattle and we're really kind of making up a problem that's not even there. That's the frustrating part for me. Um, I was all involved in a lot of regenerative grazing type stuff, and it was always an unpopular opinion when I would say, let's evaluate the worst grass manager, the worst grass manager in my entire region. He's still doing more positive things for the ecology of this region than a track of homes. doing more positive things for this region than another government center or more pavement. You know, you talked to, uh, several of these really, really smart guys, and I won't mention anybody's names here, but I'm thinking of a gentleman who I talked to who said that close to these city centers, they could actually measure the temperature. It, these cities are changing the climate of a region because of just the asphalt and

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah, absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

hitting a blade of grass and that water going in or running off to a waterway, now it's hitting asphalt or it's hitting a, a steel roof. And so this is a long way around guys, but what I was gonna say when Corbin first mentioned this to me is like, yeah, we're gonna, we're going to parse down the beef industry and make sure that Joe does a better job in Corbin and Vince do a better job of being more efficient. But yet my wife can have a bar of soap and if. A eight by eight package of cardboard delivered in less than 24 hours to our doorstep. What's the carbon footprint of that?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

And it's

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

think it's such virtue signaling and it's somebody trying to get ahead of the game on, on something else. It's very, very

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Well, and I got, but I got, I'm not mad at Bezos forgiving, I'm mad at us for like, who, who made this like, no, I didn't get a vote. No.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

You don't ever get a vote

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Oh no. But that you do get a vote on your board members and that's who votes. I don't know these. No, I didn't get a vote.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

probably cost, it'll probably cost us money and time somehow over all this crap. I guarantee it'll end up costing us money

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

How did we need 4.8 million?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

get taxed. We'll probably get taxed.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

one way that it always cost the cow calf guy. It always cost the cow calf and the seed stock guy the entire burden of beef improvement. I. I don't know of any studies people are talking about a feeding this feed stuff instead of this feed stuff or trying this instead of that, it's like, no, we need more highly marbled steaks. That is the fault of the cow calf guy. We need more highly marbled steaks. That's the fault of the purebred guy. And so we keep levying the people with this tightest gross margin with uh, the genetic improvement. I mean, it just seems preposterous to me. And maybe that'll, that's what'll end up leading us to vertical integration over time. I think it probably will. Um, but these cow calf guys, we don't need, I mean, we don't need to give them more ways to devalue their cattle For everyone that's worth more. They got one that's worth, worth less. And they don't think about their herds on an individual basis. It's an entire herd. It's an investment portfolio, if you will. And uh, there's so much a broader impact that these cows have. What about the positive effects of grazing landscapes? You know, we've seen a lot of that out here in California, to be honest. People buy into the rhetoric about cows. So instead they'll hire people with combustible engines to go weed whack, or combustible engines to go, excuse me, take mowers, and then the man hours with that. And what's the impact of that? And then, you know, and these Mediterranean climates out here, they actually need hoof action. They need churning that oxidized grass back into the soil. They need the impact of the animals. And it just, I don't know. I wish we would've never even gotten the discussion. I've heard it said before, if you're not at the table, you're on the plate. Well, sometimes we don't even need to show up. you need to say, I'm not even gonna be there for that

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Do you know what's.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

because we, we were taught, sorry, Corbin, but for like the past 10 years, 20 years, I've noticed a shift before you used to be able to gain some traction, but to now I feel like the ag people are the only ones taking a step forward. We keep taking a step forward to meet people where they're at, and I don't see those other folks taking a step forward to, to at least reach halfway anymore at all.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

You know what's crazy is, is in the, uh, you know, we've got all that going on on our end where it's like we have to start analyzing cow farts. But do you know what's happening with the nation's cow herd? It's getting smaller and smaller, and no one wants to deal with this crap, and no one wants to do it anymore. So then the beef prices are going higher. So then now it's, it's just quite the cycle where it's like, uh, okay, are we really worrying about cow herts as, as our nation's cowherd is dwindling.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Do you think it is a ploy to try to do away with beef a little bit and, and more the fake meat

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Well, I guarantee you Bezos is invested in that too. Uh, I mean,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

He

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

guarantee it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

the thing from Drover's right here.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

So it's.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Um. Yeah, he's, he's, uh, North Carolina State University. He's donating money for them to research the fake meat products. And then maybe he's researching it to see how bad they are. I don't know. Um, I can't imagine that. But he gave him 30 million over five years, so.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Yeah. And the worst part is I didn't see, I didn't see 30 million for, low interest loans to incentivize young people into agriculture. I didn't see 30 million for building up, um, the vitality of rural communities. I didn't see 4.85 million for, um, you know. Assistance for farmers who've had a hard time. I didn't see any of that. I, I think this is just a checkbox virtue signaling, multi, multi, multi-billionaire shelling some chump change to a place. And, and I guess where I got most frustrated and I haven't talked to anybody at the association about it, I'll tell you why.'cause I don't think it would do any good. I think both parties would just be pissed off and it wouldn't go anywhere. Um, so I didn't, but, um, we did not get out in front of the dialogue either again, and so allowed clickbait to drive dialogue and it plays right into the hands of the activists that believe what we're doing is bad. And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

He,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

me.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

he probably is doing it like you're saying, to check a box, Hey, I donated X amount of dollars try to help with this climate change, or whatever it might be. I'm sure you know, a guy that's got that much money has to do so much of that.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I don't ever have that problem

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I guarantee that's what it is.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Well,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Corman?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

no, and that's, and that's, but that's exactly the problem is I just feel like the more money I, I just feel like the rugby kit gets keep being pulled out from under me. It's like, you know, finally we've got this great market and yet, yet we still have to do research on these, these emissions from cows. It's like, man, we cannot have anything nice. Literally can't have nothing nice. And then, which we can get into our main topic or not. Then, you know, nevermind the fact that we've got two more EPDs that everybody's gonna start staring at now. It's like, how much crap do we need?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

It is a lot, but they're high. I'm sure they're highly accurate. I'm bet everybody turned their data in. I know Joe did, but

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

easy. Easy. I'm gonna take the fifth on that one for a while.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Corbin and I for sure

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

right? We stay, we stay silent. If, if it benefits us, and if it doesn't benefit us, then we just throw a big

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Well, uh, you know, the, the truth is, is I haven't even looked at any of my numbers. I just, I'll write off the bat, just, I'm like, why do I need to be inundated with more crap? I don't, uh, it's stupid.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

But why? Why even bother to look at it if the data, you never turn the data in on that animal. I mean, for real, like Corbin, you did, I know you didn't do it and I didn't do it, but we both got the EPDs on our cows. So how accurate is that when they're saying, well, the grandfather and the father, they

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

But they're not though. Because

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

and blah, blah,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

have you looked at, uh, have you looked at flush siblings?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yes,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

not the same. They're way, they're way different.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

could have a perfect utter and one could have a pile of crap under her. I would agree.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Um,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

even on the, on the data that I have too, um, yeah, I've looked at my flush siblings on their t and underscore and they're much different on their,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

So that means they're incorporating genomics for

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah. And that there again is the problem

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

that's always been my frustration with new trait development because

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

with any trait development.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

if you look, if you look at like the stuff that I've turned in, I would say comparatively in my herd, it makes sense. And I saw the same thing when I turned in foot EPDs. then when. As it started to progress and people started just maybe not turn, I, I assume it wasn't, they weren't turning in data. They were just flushing number ones to, number ones to number ones to number ones. Well, now we look at the foot EPD deal. I'd, I'd almost tell you that foot EPDs are more inaccurate than they've ever been, which is frustrating because they should be more, so I said this before, I, I really felt like we could start out some of this new trait development with a lot more actual data. we incorporated the genomics. And I would assume if we had those people on, they'd say, well, we had lots of data before we did and, and we solicited it and this is right and it's gonna correct itself as you turn in more data, I would say on the hole in my herd, it's representative. But there's some outliers too. You know, there's some cattle that are outta cires that got hammered that are pretty doggone good uttered, that appear pretty poor on there. And then vice versa, some that were on auto sis that were pretty, pretty good, um, that aren't as good as what their EPDs are saying.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I think, I think,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

people are,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

go ahead Vince. I think my biggest,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

are not.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

oh, we're gonna do this now. Huh? We're gonna do this. You go. Okay. I'll go. I think my, uh, you know, of the three traits, my biggest frustration is definitely functional longevity because I've identified a few cow families that will work for me. A fertility is probably one of our biggest shortcomings in our area because the, the, the weather is so extreme and the amount of feed that we have for the winter is not great. And so fertility is definitely something we, we emphasize a lot. And my biggest frustration is that on the functional longevity, there's a cow family, the Glenda Cow family that I've identified where all the daughters breed up, all their daughters breed up, and, and, and we are kind of able to build an entire cow herd around this cow. But yet her fun functional longevity score is in the 70th percentile. Um, she died at 15. Um, her daughter, she's got three or four pathfinder daughters and, and two or three more that are coming up and, and it's, and they are still li alive and thriving up upwards of 10. They're breeding up every year. They're the cows that are gonna make my entire cow herd. But yet through one number, I I, it's, I slap in the face for them to tell me that everything that I've put all this time and effort into is wrong.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Well, the taking the drop of blood or a tissue sample and they've built this algorithm and they are not like, I, I'm not gonna sit there and take the time. I mean, Joe just was talking earlier that what a drain it was to collect data. Take. I'm not gonna take the time collect all this data and pay somebody to come out and, and carcass scan everything and then turn it in. And then they don't give a crap about any of the actual data. They just worry about what the tissue and blood sample says. So why do all the work? Well, it's not gonna be accurate no matter what they say. Because as soon as you turn in that tissue or blood sample, all your actual data can go out the window and they can say, no, no, no, that's not true. All they want. When I watch it affect my EPDs the way it does, it tells me all the actual data went out the window, and genomics first came out, they were not to move an EPD over, what was it, 10%. It was very, very, very minimal. now you've got animals growing 50%

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

going down 50%.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Getting hammered.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

not supposed to do that. They changed that and didn't tell anybody

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

because I remember when it all first came out.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Well, and I guess I would add to that, um, I wrote a note here when Corbin was talking, and Vince, I appreciate what you added too. I think the frustration lies in us not giving enough value to the environmental differences. We've talked about that before on here, how EPDs are supposed to pull the environment out of it. the environment's important. What if we're, and I don't know the answer to this Corbin, I'm just saying rhetorically, the Glenda's, wherever they were developed, maybe they were fed a lot and those cattle fell out like crazy. But when they came to Oklahoma and how you managed them along with everything else, those cattle thrived and were awesome. those cattle are gonna show up as being hammered because of all the data associated with them under one management scenario and not the other. And I know that some of the cattle under my functional longevity, there's certain ones, if you would've demanded a lot more production out of them. You probably would've called them. So if those cattle were tested then in an Iowa or Nebraska or Kansas, I don't, I don't know. Um, I'm just saying again, rhetorically, I'd have to imagine people would've called them. That's why I don't like now, I think we're too far along in this game to keep continually pulling environment out of it. We need to have all of these traits rooted in some sort of practicality and some sort of realistic, usable nature. Because another one, I told you guys this before and we'll bring it into this podcast, we saw with a grass fed customer of mine that a lot of the modern high carcass EP DD cattle. Do not perform under his scenario. And a lot of the cattle you would call, quote unquote heritage cattle who, uh, more moderate frame easier fleshing. A lot of them are negative IMF. Um, a lot of their bulls are more high testosterone bulls too, by the way. Put those in a grass scenario. Those cattle marbled like crazy. But the modern feedlot type genetics did not perform. I think you could say the same about every one of these traits, which makes it really, really hard to say that in Auburn, California, what I have and is thriving here is going to translate also to Oklahoma or to Tennessee or to anywhere else.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

What do you mean when you say they pull the environment out of it,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

It is not a factor.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

but how can it not be a factor? If Corbin has been in a drought for three years and you know, his weights are not gonna be what they should be and you turn in weights, I mean, are you're talking about all the EPDs or are you just talking

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Just the ones that pretty, pretty much not, not like my weights, no. Not like hard data like that.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

gonna affect the cow's breeding

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Exactly,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

gonna affect your weights, it's gonna infect,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

and that's, yeah,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

cow's weight. It's gonna affect the milk she put produces. It's gonna affect a lot of

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

so taking all that into account on one cow family that I've, I've been around now for a whole decade, and for them to come out with a number on a whim and tell me that, that cow family that I've spent my entire, I mean, I've put so much blood, sweat, and tears into this cow herding for you to come in there, put a number on her that is not indicative of what they are at all. I'm just like, you know what, what's the point? Why would I go look at my EPDs and no, and no. You know what, no, she's not at the bottom of the barrel, but you know what, to me, she's top 1% because I've brought a bunch of this top 1% crap in which I have, might not have, but I've brought a bunch of stuff that's top 15, top 10. I know that the few cows I looked at, and it is junk. It is garbage. Won't work.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

So would you say the same about, we were just talking about the donated fund and the emission stuff too. Would you say that maybe we just need to tune that out and just keep doing what we're doing because there's more and more people, each one of these things that comes out kind of breaks the trust because like, I don't live in la LA land. I live in reality and these cows are killing it here and we're just gonna keep doing that.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Correct.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

we end up maybe going the other way now and it kind of, I don't know if it, this term's gonna be funny, but if it hurts, quote unquote genetic improvement. But you know what? It's not exciting anymore.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

no.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

exciting to me to find out every Friday if my cows have been devalued or not. and so I'm just satisfied with what I have. I try to use the tools that we have, which is our own eye and the network of people we have before we bring genes in. Because guess what? They are still the exact same cows that they were. The ones that are high ratioing ratioing cows are still high ratio and the low ratioing cows are still low ratioing cows. The ones that need to leave are still the ones that need to leave. Um, I guess the frustration I have is when I was, I was trying to explain it to Miles when we were gathering some cattle the other day. Uh, I said, it's kind of wild miles. Some people will make some resets. Donors now and donors will be resets again. And you see that cycle every three to five years when a new trait comes out as somebody goes from the front to the back and the back to the front. And are we gonna do that exact same thing with all this emission stuff that's coming on and everything else? I think the cowboys who are out there that have control of land and just do a good job of producing high quality cattle. What's crazy as guys, if we think about the supermarket and the, the stereotypical housewife feeding people, doesn't care about all this stuff. She just wants to buy beef from a family she trusts. It's as simple. Um, or if the husband's out, I mean we, if he's out grocery shopping, he wants to buy beef from somewhere he can trust, it's gonna be a good eating experience. And I like to think that the United States cattle producer has that market cornered. They do a great job of producing super high quality beef. And if you don't believe that, go eat some beef from somewhere else.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

So with that said, how do you identify a clear path that you want to be on when everything is changing constantly,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Whew. Corbin, did you see that transition?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

nice. That was nice. I was wondering how we were gonna get there, you know? No, I think,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Go.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I, I think for me, and this is something that I was wanting to get to too, I'm glad Vince brought up the actual

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

stay on it? How you gonna stay

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah, I think, I'm glad Vince actually transitioned it by by saying it, because I was just gonna, my next point was gonna be. My head's down my head. I, I'm going to spend more time with the cows and less time with the paper. I mean, I've been, as I've been doing that over the past, I would say five or six years, you know, right around when the, the dollar c the foot scores and all that stuff started coming out. Um, I think it was, it was just sort of, the line was drawn in the sand. It was like, you know, what, am I going to get enthralled with these numbers or am I gonna make cows that work? E ever since I've done that in the past six or seven years, where I've not necessarily ignored the paper, but for the most part, ignored the paper. Um, this cow herd has thrive and gotten much better. It's gotten much better. Calling on the right things you should be calling on has been such a blessing to me. And just being able to change a cow herd by doing it yourself and not like, I ha I haven't used anyone's help. I've done it all on my own. And so I'm definitely not gonna start using someone's someone's opinion now. I mean, now that I, I've identified what needs to be done, I'm gonna go keep doing it because I'm gonna say I know more than, than the genomics knows. Sorry.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

There is no substitute for going and evaluating your cattle. Evaluating the calves that are on these cattle. nothing on that piece of paper that is ever gonna tell you that information without you getting outta your truck or getting outta your office, or getting outta your house or whatever you want it to be. And going through a pasture and evaluating the cattle, nothing.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

So, Vince, do you remember when we had this conversation what you were doing? This is a long time ago. It was this spring.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Hmm.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I remember exactly where I parked my four-wheeler because I run outta reception when I talk to you guys and it's next to this pylon gate we have. you were looking at your recepts in your commercial cows and you said something like, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but it was like, man, this is just a nice set of cows. Like they're just

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

and they're so functional. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you said I just turned bulls out on'em.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Uh, AI to any bull that I own, that I collect because the semens free or cheap. then we put our bulls on'em. That's it. We do one round AI on heifers and we put our bulls out on cows. We do one egg and put out and I retain all the heifers and it's so much easier. This when we were calving the damn, I had five calves in one day commercials and I was so happy. They were just nice calves. They had vigor. I didn't have to worry about are their feet gonna blow out? I didn't have to worry about what their EPDs were gonna be. I didn't have to worry about any of it. It just had nice calves. Their hardest thing they gotta do is grow up and breed, and if they don't breed, I don't freaking stress

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

You know what's great? Yeah. You don't gotta tag'em. You don't gotta weigh'em. You don't gotta turn data in. You don't gotta look at their numbers. You don't gotta be discouraged about what happened to this one's numbers on this day. If they're not bred, you call'em. If they don't raise a big calf, you call'em, you move on. Look at my commercial cow herd that's as says 50 cows. That's as far away from me as they could get because no one can see'em back there because they're just cows. This is my favorite set of cows to go through. They're my favorite set of cows to move, and that's because they're low maintenance. They're easy. It's awesome.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

You wanna know. What's funny about that is if you take them to a sale barn, they're on an equal playing field, and which ones are worth the real money?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yep.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

The ones Vince just described.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I mean,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

are worth the real money.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

so much easier. I was on the phone with Wilson the other day and he, he ran to the stockyard and he said, hang on a minute. He got out. He went and told the guys, and he got back in the truck. I said, they ask you for your dollar C Did they ask you what the reg numbers were? Did they ask you what the marbling was of those calves? He said, no, they didn't ask me any of that. I said, exactly.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

you know what, and, and Joe's brought this up a couple times in the past couple weeks, but do you know how stupid that the average person that goes to the sale barn and sells their cattle would think we are for all the shit we do with our cows? If you know how stupid they would say, oh, that is

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

It is ridiculous.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

next to a good, good customer of ours who runs a lot, a lot of cattle, and so enough to where he buys some bulls from us, but there's no way he could satisfy. He buys pot loads of bulls and he just buys some bulls from me just to support. I. He said, um, he was very gracious yesterday. He's like, you know what? The reason I buy some bulls from you is you are the only person that I know of in this area who knows what it's like to sell cattle on this side of the equation. If you ever want some reality, spend some time in some sale barns, actually see how cattle are valued, actually see how those cattle buyers attribute value to calves that they buy, and they are getting some into this GeneMax scoring and everything. But I'll tell you what, you can have all the bells and whistles. You can have all the verifications, but if the cattle aren't good, they do not bring a premium in a sale barn.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

No.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

most of the time they don't bring a premium on the video sales either. They, they might work for some of those a MA type agreements where you're feeding them direct and stuff like that. But I'll tell you, if those cattle reach a buyer anywhere, they better have a certain look to'em, and those guys evaluate those cattle accordingly. And all of a sudden, when you strip away. It's funny, we've talked one time, you remember the word crutches got bred up the word crutches, like everybody's got a crutch for their cattle or something. I was all mad about that. Um, I mean, do the, does the paper and the pedigree become a crutch up these cattle saying that they have value and

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

and does it become also a, a, an anchor on some cattle where it's like, boy, that pedigree, I don't know that I really love it and, and I get the calls still all the time about people talking about pedigree, placement and stuff. Yes, the pedigree provides value and context to your selection and inheritance and all those things, but we gotta remember that good is good and bad is bad. And just because one has a certain pedigree doesn't make them climb the ladder of value in our program. Or either direction doesn't make'em plummet and it doesn't make'em, they gotta make it on their own merits. Vince, I feel like you were gonna say something. I cut you off.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I was just gonna say, I was talking to a guy the other day and uh, he was talking about a neighbor looking down on some guys that didn't have the right EPD or the right this, or the right that and that he's got a standards and blah, blah. And my question was going to was to him, what is he gonna do when he wakes up one morning and AAA is no more? And all those papers that he has goes in the garbage will, his cattle withstand every day to day, whatever, without that paper propping'em up. Do their job and sell calves the way he needs to sell calves. Does that make

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I mean, what was the, what was the old adage that we first started talking about years ago? Cut all their ear tags out and put'em in a pen

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Yep.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

that, don't tell you a thing about A EPD. It don't tell you ID number, don't tell you nothing. You just evaluate the

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

And then, you know what the, if you don't have the, the full context, you could put all them in the pen and somebody could go pick one, and I guarantee you, they wouldn't pick the best one anyway.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I think that's what our charge is though, guys. I think that's what our charge is as seed stock suppliers, is you're supposed to produce something that is thriving with your resources. I mean, that's why, I say that Vince is next door neighbor is in a different environment than Vince, so you can't judge him because if all of a sudden that fella has some market cornered on Distiller's grain and an advantage, that's an advantage he has.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

him build his own program or her own program. And the same in California. You know, some people run cattle in country just as rough as me, but they got a different set of resources. They probably need one that, uh, I was, I was reading an article, Corbin 1960. There were these huge, I mean. You've seen pictures of our country. It's big and it's wild and it's rough and it's hairy. There's these great big monster creep feeders.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

In the sixties.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

what in the world is those about? Yeah. Yeah. In the sixties, well, they had a huge, this is a quite a way south of us, but similar topography. They had a huge cotton industry, and those guys would get cotton seed meal and cotton byproducts, and they would go and they would fill these monster hoppers, like I'm talking like several semi big hoppers, and they would supplement cattle. Was that wrong? It was an environmental advantage that those people had to harness beef production. Right, and And that's why I think you say develop a clear path, your clear path, you are the index maker. You as the breeder or the index maker. And that index should include, what are my envi environmental advantages? What are my environmental disadvantages? What are my labor constraints? What do I want to do? What do I have a talent for? Evaluating, okay, well, I've got a fellow who has a kill plant and he does this or that. Well, I probably better really make sure these carcass traits are in order. Or I'm a backgrounding guy who needs to make some long H calves that go out on two seasons of grass. You know, consider all of those things. And when I made the comment to you guys, I mean, what a joke that most people would think if they saw most purebred producers. They'd either say it's an overgrown four H project, or it's some sort of recreational livestock that they have, because. You've gotta know what those folks are walking and what they're doing. They're just producing cattle that need to be relatively problem. No, they're not relatively, they need to be problem free and they need to last a long time. When you've got an opportunity cost on a heifer calf that's 21, 22, 20$300 right now, you're gonna put a thousand dollars worth of management costs in to get her to the her calving year. She better be a good one. And I don't care what her Gene Max score says. If she don't work in your environment, she don't work in your environment. And that's where I'm seeing some of this nation cow herd rebuild stuff is guys are going, boy, I want to keep heifers, but I wanna make sure she's the right kind and sitting at the sale barn. You've seen a change in biological type of cattle nowadays, and I would need to make sure that those mother cows out in country can still do it like they used to be able to.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Well, you know what I think's really important too, and something that needs to be said before we, before we move on from, from identifying a clear path, is I think you gotta look at what your customers are and what your customer's needs are, and you have to try to make that. Path from, and that starts from the beginning. That starts from making the calf, getting it into, so basically, you know, all three of us sell bulls. So whenever I think about this, I think about what type of bulls my customer wants and what type of bull my customer, customer wants is one that's gonna last long, one that's gonna make dollars and one's gonna make steers that grow. Um, everything else is, is maybe a cherry on top or something that they're not gonna look at. You know, when it gets right, when it rolls right down to it, they're not gonna look at that functional longevity. EPD, they don't care. They don't care. They don't know what that EPD is. Um, if they open a catalog, they're gonna look at that and they're gonna say, what is fl? They're gonna have to Google it and figure out even what it means. So I think mirroring your cowherd to what your customer's needs are. And you know what, some of our customers are different too. Some of us aren't making cattle for the commercial cow man. So that definitely makes it very tough. I mean, that makes it a lot harder for, for like, Vince, I know you sell a lot of females and so. If your end user isn't a commercial cow guy, how do you, what do you do in this situation?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

It's not easy. It's not easy at all. But the also what you were just saying, so the guy sees the fl and he, he Googles it and, oh, what does this mean? Functional longevity. So what's he gonna do? He knows nothing about it. He's gonna see that that is, that animal is in the top 95 percentile. So that must mean it's bad I that thing's gonna die before I even get it to the house. That's how bad its functional longevity is. it, it, it could be the furthest from the truth. I know a guy that's got a 14-year-old cow that her functional longevity's in the top 95 percentile. It's 14

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

How's that not functionally go long. How's it not?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

a calf, nursing her right now at 14 and bred back. But the functional longevity is bad. So my point being is somebody's just gonna read that, not understand any kind of context to go with it. Oh, that's bad. I can't buy that cow

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

What puts you.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I guess that'd be my prescription for breeders. And we did the same thing with, with Feet EPDs when they came out, because we were part of the developmental trait, the cattle showed up very favorably. I said, I'm not putting this in my sale book as a trait because I want our customers to know we've had this other tool added. But you can count on the fact that we will continue to pay attention to this every single one. We don't look at feet as a corrective thing. I don't say I have a cow that's terrible footed, and so I better use a bull. That's a number one. In order to fix her, we get rid of her or put an egg in her. That's what we do with her. And it would be the same with the ones that don't breed. But I would, I'll tell you gentlemen, I was shocked. I was, there was a dispersal, uh, this last year that I asked for three animals production records. Not one of them had CAD every single year. So

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

happens

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

use this as a, if you're a pure red producer, go ahead, use it as a tool. Search it, find out what's there, find out what's not. Look for trends, but be very, very cautious of how you educate and what you tell your customers on it. Because if you're breeding Calvin,'em calling them, you're doing your job. If you're making'em work, just

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

right?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Don't just throw that number in and a boilerplate ad that comes from someone and explaining the new trait and how you're all excited because that's gonna put you right into a box of where you're going to have to be selecting for that trait because your customers are going to demand it. Um, I felt like there was something else, but Corbin said, customer needs that I wrote down.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

here's a, here's a silver lining to that while you're thinking, but so, so the good news is when it comes, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry for going back to the, the new EPDs, but the silver lining is, is that, you know what, if you don't wanna put that in your sale book, you don't have to. And 95% of the people buying in your sale, if it's not your sale book, they're not gonna go look up the pet pedigree of the cow. And if they're, you know, what if someone's sorting and buying animals based on one or two EPDs, then it doesn't matter to me anyways, because I'm probably don't have what they want anyways. It's, it's just, I, it's just.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

And I think, I think some seed stock producers are just as guilty as AAA through the beef bulletin or anything else. Like I, I think that some seed stock producers are guilty of driving their customers towards new traits without thinking, you know, what am I educating them on? just need to do a better job of understanding them and their needs and just keep breeding for that and there'll be a spot for you. Just

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

And do and, and

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

spot

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

does the seed stock producer really understand the trade or are they just, it's fine that something that, that they can do that's easy and that they excel at. Maybe, maybe someone's, someone's out there looking at their EPDs and they're like, Ooh, wow, I'm really good at functional longevity. I should market the market that. But do they really know what they're marketing or is it just more slander and more malarkey to get something sold?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I, I don't know that they know what they're marketing, but it's real cool when they can run the ad on the animal and say it's top 1% or top 10% for 15 traits.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I mean, that, you know.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Absolutely. It's like the cow. I was joking with you guys and sent all you the number ones. She's the number six cow out of those whole sisters, but she's all got a number one. So I wanna sell her, make some money off of her. Promote that, promote that without thinking the unintended consequences. You know, I've been reluctant to say this and, and Robert's probably gonna disagree with me a little bit and that's okay. for the amount these guys are getting for their calves, it is crazy high that these calves are selling for. They can afford to invest in good bulls. They

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

can. of these bulls guys are worth 7, 8, 9,$10,000. Hands down, they could afford to pay even more for the rip bulls. you what, you can't afford a misstep and buy the wrong bulls, not with the cost of replacement heifers and stuff. And so I think there's a whole lot of opportunity, especially for the small breeders who listen to this podcast, listen to other podcasts. They're trying to learn, identify your lane, develop a relationship with your commercial people and breed cattle that work for them, and they will pay for that premium. If the cattle are working, they'll come back and pay that premium. at least you hope.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Ooh,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

what,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I take back everything I said negative about Tet motor scores. I just looked up one of my favorite young cows and she's really excelled.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

See, look at this guy.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I take it all back. I take it all back.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Corbin's. Ready for a consignment sale near you. Look at

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Ooh, boy.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

My mood just changed.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh, hey. While Vince is thinking up the new transition.'cause we gotta transition into something else.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I was trying to figure out what it was.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

You're gonna find it out. I got a special announcement for our listeners. Go click on to David Yak Lee's Herd Talk. Our

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh, yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

from Buck Snort Angus is on there talking about some of the South African stuff. I don't, I haven't listened to it yet, guys, because I didn't see it on my deal. He just linked it to Buzz Sprout, which is always a pain for me to listen to. But, um, yak Lee talks to Jason. I've known this story for, was it four or five years? We've known Meen, now Vince

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

something like that. And, and Meen told me that story. I mean, I'm gonna, a Reader's Digest condensed version is, that's why he's here. uh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Meeting or me? Don. Me. Don.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

he's your buddy. And my phone, it says Baden,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

It is.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

just learned is wrong and I can't

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Let's hear those South. Let's hear those. Let's hear those. It's probably maiden.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

No. Y kept calling him. Me, Don

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Me don,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

me. Don. Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

anyways, we, it's funny because my social media has been hijacked by all this political hyperbole about, oh, Trump this, or Trump that. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, let's not get crazy Trump this or Trump that. I mean, Meen said This is real. And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

there

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

there like he sent me. I have on my phone video of, of these coliseums full of these rallies of people gonna, and this is before I even knew it was a political hot topic for crying out loud. Vince, you've known more than I have,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh, he was, he was sending to me too. It is terrible. He was telling me the other day, he was just telling me, he told me a little bit about it. want to press him because you could tell when I first asked him, he kind of deflected a little bit. And um, but yeah, like everybody's house has a eight 10 foot wall around it and on top of that it's electric fence. And, and like to the, the way he kinda understood it, like double security doors coming into the house and then like you got your living room and then the hallway going back to bedrooms will have another security door to buy you a little bit more time if you need to get out or fight back. It's crazy. Craziness.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

we'll, we'll link it on our social media page too to Yak Lee's Heard Talk. It's just these boys, uh, Corbin and Vince and then myself. We, we've been so doggone busy these past two weeks. That's why we missed a recording. And it just, Vince is, Vince is behind on spraying and planting. Corbin's Tee balling it up, which I've been there and I'm shipping and so it's been kind of tough. Corbin, do you find our transition bud?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

No, I'm still looking at my cow's EPDs.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

So,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

still looking.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

alright, so did you, so

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I haven't found another one, so I hate it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

did you ever identify a clear path? Now that you've identified a clear path, how do you stay with it and when should you ever pivot? If you needed to pivot?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yes, I've identified a clear path. My clear fi path is oh five seven. She is top 10% for functional longevity. Top 2% for utter and top 10% for, uh, the other one. Woo. Let's go.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Okay, good.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Um, think the quickest way to identify a clear path is to still be, have our human flaws and be a man that's trying to improve things. And fail. And fail, and fail,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

there's

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

then you pivot, right? That's when you pivot, when you fail.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

pivot and you're like, man, maybe I, I AIed to this bull that had all this glitz and this glamor and excitement and all these traits. And I'd have been better off just turning out the limp and cleanup bull just because I need to get stuff bred. uh, I've learned all those lessons and we're still, you know, Jason, me, Don was one of the guys who asked me, he asked me, uh, a couple years ago when I first met him, he said, how did you get the confidence to use your owns? And, um, if I'm ratting him out, and Jason, if you're mad about that, I'm sorry bud. Um, but uh, I went to a customer's place to look at cattle and his replacement heifers were nicer than mine. And that's when I said, well, what's he doing different than I am? Well, he

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Right,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

brewing bulls and I was using the sis of the brewing bulls. And so. That made me identify a real clear path. And then every time I sit in the sale barn and I see different kinds of cattle selling, um, that helps me when I go and see commercial customers that are happy, uh, that galvanizes me when I see a commercial customer say, Hey, we got, we were off the market a little because we didn't have the Angus GMS score for feedlot score or beef score. I will consider, do I need to pivot? And then I ultimately always end up coming back to, well, that's not really what we do. If you need to make that shift for that number, there's probably someone who could do a better job for you than I can,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

right.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I just kind of stay in my lane and doing my thing. What, what do you do, Vince? Or what do you think?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I mean, you guys gave me confidence to have faith in my own bulls, but I. all started with, I'm, I'm evaluating my bulls against, um, my AI stuff, and it's very hard to do because there's a age gap. But you know, when you, when your AI and assembles that may not work for you the way that they should have or the way that you thought they did or should have. Um, and then your ca your natural calves outta your herd sis are equally or as good or better, um, are equally as good as some really good bulls that, you know, A is a good bulls B, everybody's using them. See, people want'em. Um, and then your herd bulls, are as good. Like it, it's, it's eyeopening, but it's hard to do if you have a. Just a handful of cows. It's very hard to do with that.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I think the key to, to moving forward with anyone's program is having introspection and being able to be real with yourself and, uh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

the

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

If you're looking at EPDs on something, and it really does, you know, so, so you're looking at, you're looking at functional longevity and your cow's in the top 95th percentile, and then you have to look yourself in the mirror and say, she's there for a reason. Do I, do I stick my heels in the mud? Or, or maybe you've got one that's in the top 1% for teat and utter and the top 1% for, for functional longevity, but that cow's not the cow. And you know, that, you know, you know, she's been open twice. Um, it doesn't matter what that EPD says. You have to be introspective and be critical of your own cow herd enough to move forward, to call that cow and be done with her. You have to have that discipline, and that's, that's really hard sometimes.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

It is, it is very hard. And honestly, you know, there's a lot of times that, I mean, a lot of our conversations are, you know, in my barn blind,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Mm-hmm.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

and that's a real deal. Like, you think it's, um, you got something really happening good for you, and then you might go visit a friend or, or go visit a neighbor or whatever, and you're like, well, golly, these things are way better than mine or vice versa. but it, it's real hard and it to do, and it's so very easy to say, well, you know, that didn't raise the best calf this year. Uh, oh, well, she was a heifer. It was her first calf. We'll give her, we'll give her a pass. Or, well, man, that thing is a. a, that's, that's a forever lady. I don't have very many, many forever ladies left. So

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I gotta keep her because she's a forever lady.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I gotta keep her because she's a forever lady or that thing's, the one of two cows that I got that's in the top 1% for some cockie, EPD, uh, so we gotta give her a

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

hey, I got a flusher because I paid 30,000 for,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Hey, I got a flusher'cause I paid

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

you know, I mean, this is, it's, it's,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

a

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

it's the same old adage that we deal with in every facet of this business. The seed sock side. It's like you're getting pushed, pulled in so many different directions that are not the direction you need to be pushed and pulled in. Um,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

So is

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Correct.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

it's easier, Vince, for your commercial cows to be better because all they are is all they are?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yep. I don't put a

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

yeah, it's awesome.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

good bulls, good bulls on them.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

And right now, right now, I, those 150 commercial cows that I still got over there, they're gonna make me a pretty penny right now. So I'm, I'm tickled pink with them. I'm thrilled.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I don't know. I don't know. Every time I get discouraged though, you guys do a good job of pumping me back up. Like. know. I'm, I'm excited. I'm really, really excited because what I go out there and see, I like,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yes, yes,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Vince Minson mentioned barn blindness. I wanted to unpack that a little because I, I try to stay very introspective. but I do think for some of our newer listeners really do a good job of trying to out management too, because there are a lot of places you can go where you're seeing a lot of management

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

you go, gosh, you get down on yourself and you're like, man, these, none of these look like his worst cow, or her worst cow looks way better. go and really figure out what the management looks like.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

look around.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

there are people that manage these things to the nines guys. And I'm not talking about just making sure there's feed in front of them. I'm talking about managing every single portion of that animal's life. And for me, I've found that whenever I use those genes and put them into my scenario, never look the same as they do at their operation.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Correct.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

um, there's some, there's some pieces. There's some pieces for sure. Um, and to Vince's point, you know, and I'm gonna throw you under the bus, Vince, but Vince called me early on, uh, um, when we're involved in a podcast several years ago, and he, he was like, Hey, we gotta be careful with some of these young people.'cause if we empower'em too much, they might need to improve. What do you think about that? And I said, well, I start seeing pictures from people too. And I'm like, don't get barn blind. I mean that prescription of empower yourself, uh, use your own stuff. You have to have the right disposition for that too. You have to be a person that's very self-critical. You have to be a person that's your worst critic. Um, and or your program will probably suffer. So if you know you don't have that ailment and you're very positive of your own cattle and frustrated with everyone else's, maybe find a friend that you trust who can come along and say, Hey, I'll come look at these cows and let you know, un unbiased opinion of what I think one way or another. And, and I always have that some of my customers help me move these cows when we're driving up from lower range and they say, well, I like this cow. I don't like this cow. Why? You know, stuff like that. And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Right.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

been really useful to me guys. And, um, even on the tours and stuff, these folks will pick up on different cattle that are more of a reflection of what they're trying to do and the uniqueness of what they're trying to do. Um, and that's where I really see the value out of the tours, to be honest, I.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Absolutely. I, speaking of tours, I had a really, really good tour with a guy from a couple from

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

That's awesome.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

It was really awesome. Uh, Adam, I got a, I don't wanna mess up his last name, I'm sure I

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

it's gotta be mixed something, right?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

No,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

O' Neil.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

no, no. It wasn't, that's what, that's what screwed me up. Um, dadgummit,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

What's funny is we don't have to worry about them being offended by stereotypes, names,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I'm assuming it's.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

armor,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Um, it, it's, yeah, that's kind of what I thought it

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

or do you roll the R. Armor?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

his,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Armor.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Mm-hmm.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

No

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

it was o it was O-U-R-A-R-M-O-U-R. So would that be Armour

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Armor.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

or would it just be Armor?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Armor, but can you, uh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I trying to make more

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

what? Yeah, what did the, can you, can you talk in his accent for me?'cause that might help me

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

no. It was thick. Like I had to get him to repeat himself. A couple,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

meat on thick.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

maiden.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

thicker. He even went to, he went to visit meeting too. no. Uh, Kathy and Adam, they were really cool. Um, it was really neat to see, I guess, my cattle through their eyes. they, they also had, um, I think he, I think that she said door Pitts the sheep.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

doper.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

the

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Oh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Um, she said they were gonna transition from the sheep just to all cattle. They had just gotten married and they just got a nice little farm. And, um, he had some cattle with his dad. And, um, but it, it, it was really, really neat just to, even, even the difference in how they describe the cattle,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Sure.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

like he was talking about this cattle has a good carcass,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Oh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

we think carcass,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

like depth and width and,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

yes, the mass, the actual mass of the animal.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Um, so like, it was,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

She'd feed a lot of buzzers if she died.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

and I was really thankful that they came by. Um, it, it was.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

did you feel like your type was useful to them or they liked the more muscular, high yielding, stereotypical kind of European cattle. I'm curious.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Um, they like frame, they like some frame, they like a cow with some depth, but not too much depth. Um, when they saw 70 22, he was like, yeah, that cow's got way too much belly for us.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Did you say waste probably or something?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Mm. I don't know. He never really said why,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Uhhuh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

um, he just said she had too much

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Mm-hmm.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Um, so that was kind of neat to that, you know, that they just have a different way to see'em, you know? Um, yeah, it was, it was really, really neat.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Did

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

So,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

did he relate to you at all how they use genetics there? Like are they using a

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

dude, they're using old stuff

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Okay.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

like. Emulation, 30 ones, granddaddy,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Ooh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

you know, like old stuff,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

oh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

old,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

oh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

stuff.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Are they

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

So

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

purpose or is that all they have

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I don't know, he didn't know about a lot of the new genetics. He'd heard of a few bulls, of course, you know, he'd heard of America. Uh, I'd say the, because of his price tag and he was the high selling bull or whatever, blah, blah, blah. he put together, legions, went back to America because of Anthem.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Sure.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

He kind of put that back together. Um, yeah, he wouldn't know a lot of our pedigrees. So he was just here evaluating cattle, which was awesome

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

They

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

not,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

to evaluate cattle. I. In the

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

were, they came to Nashville like on a honeymoon. went to Nashville for the rodeo and wanted to get outta, they'd spent two or three days in the city, wanted to get outta the city. He'd asked a long time ago if he could come. I said, sure. And then, he went on over, wanted to know something else he could do. So he went over to visit, um, buck Snort while they were here. Him and his, him and his wife. And they just had a good time. And I need to follow up with'em to see if they made it back home. I, I wasn't real sure when they were leaving to go home, but, uh, good, good

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

He heard us on here.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Is that how they got a hold of you or No.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Facebook Messenger.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Okay,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

bet there were podcast listeners. Huh?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

No,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Oh

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

clue.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

huh. You're just famous.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

And, and like I, I, I asked him, well, I asked him how they came up and he said, our American Angus Journal. Well, I haven't run a freaking ad in the journal in 12 years.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Right.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

getting? The, the,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

They don't get'em very quick down there. It takes'em a while.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

So,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Takes'em a while to get there.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

yeah, it was, it was pretty, it was pretty

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah. They,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

and Kathy Armor.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

send, uh

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

tour season here is just getting ready to crank up. I'll have some next month. we have two dinners coming up on the seventh and the 14th. I donated, uh, these farm tour slash dinners to

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Oh yeah, I remember that.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

farm bureau

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh, that's cool.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

One of my bull customers bought one. Amelia was contending, bidder on one, and then the other one, um, a different telephone company bought or something. And so we're gonna have fun with that. We'll have some cattle there and feed him some brewing beef and,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

are y'all gonna cook? What are you gonna cook?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I don't know. That's Dave Fisher's department.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Dave,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

me.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Dave's gonna cook.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

he's coming. Um, my cousin Mark, well his cousin. So they're all, I've never got into this with you guys, but I call my cousins very, very close with Mark and Matt. Those are the ones that I was in Idaho with delivering those colts this last week. Um, and they're actually, my dad's like second cousins, but we're all kind of raised around the same spot and spent a lot of time together,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

they're friend, they're friends as much as anything too.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh, absolutely. Like, I mean, they're the closest family I got to be honest with you.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Closer than people that were closer blood, if that would

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah, yeah. Do you guys wanna know, um, some insight into what has worked well here? Whew. That's seven and seven protocol.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

It

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

It works. It works really good. It works really good. We had, uh, so we're, we're still putting embryos in here and, um. That's probably the best response I've ever had. Now, granted, we've had a good spring. Um, our cattle have been cold over the last three years, so we base, we've got good ones left and everything else is gone. Um, and fertility is, is been at the top of the list for sure over the past three years. Um, so we've got a fertile set of cows, but, but 36 out of 42, responding to a seven and seven protocol. I'm just tickled pink with that. I think that's, that's really good. Um, we'll put those embryos in next week. And I'm, I'm

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

did

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

fired up.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

cows that way too,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Uh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

did you AI

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

we only AIed a few and we did them early, but now I just put them on a seven day and, and as few as I had, I will say if I ever do get serious about AI in a big set of cows, seven and seven is going to be a godsend. I mean, it's gonna be, it, it,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

do'em all at

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

it is a pain in the butt though. I mean.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

cows,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I do understand

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

do'em all at

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

extra time through the shoot. It's kind of daunting. Um,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah, but it's not,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

but it is, it is a pain I'll be honest. It is. I gotta get'em in a week before I was going to, and then I gotta run'em in an extra time. I'm by my, it's a pain it's worth it. It's worth it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

it being, yeah, but that's what I

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

And it's worth it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

it. So how big a problem is it to use a, a seven day and you only, you're you, you

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

It ain't worth it sometimes.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

to

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

but you only get 50% heats,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

So it ain't as worth it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

so that's even

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yep. Yeah, if we're gonna do it, if we're gonna do it, I'd much rather take the extra time and and do it the correct way.'cause it's gonna be,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

So, Vince, when you're AIing off of it, are you

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

you could almost prime read them at that point.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

God no. You ain't gonna catch me. Time breeding.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

See, I think I, I did the same as you. I watched heats and I think, I don't know. I need to get the actual data once

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

You might could. They're so tight. I think you

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I think,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh, you're synchronizing ovulation. You aren't synchronizing heat. And so I wonder if on these really awesome protocols, if we're doing more harm watch and heats,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

yeah,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I don't know. But I'm not gonna thaw the unit of semen if I don't have a cow. Outstanding.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

do. I mean, you know what we say that. Okay, but every single year, what did he say? Say that again.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I said, well, that$2 Legion Siemens expensive, and, and those quarter CC Fellow straws them are expensive too. Since I

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

like 30 and made you pay half price for

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

It's hard to get, it's hard to, it's, yeah. We've, we've, we, we don't have any semen that in our tanks, you know, they're pretty empty. But, uh, no, I think it's interesting. To think about because if we could breed'em all at one time, it sure would make breeding a set of 50 a lot easier than, I mean Yeah. If I was gonna breed'em, I gotta catch'em again. So in the wintertime that's easy, but in the summertime, if I'm, if I'm not time breeding, I gotta, I gotta gather'em up and they don't want to come in. They're not coming to feed anymore.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

here's what I'm wondering, Corbin. I'm gonna commission some university to do this, a head-to-head study on it it would almost be worth it for me to time breed'em all. But the. The early reds hit and breed them twice

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

the silvers keep around and hit them later

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

or something. I, I mean, because I actually, I think I didn't get as good of conception response on my seven and seven last fall because I was watching heats rather than I should have just bred'em all, bred'em all, GnRH'em, let it roll

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

breed a lot of, I, I have a lot of cows that take AI that way. It's, it's uncanny. And then how many times are you running Reese sips through? And you're like, well, she didn't really have a heat that I saw. And then she'll have a CL and she'll take an embryo. So it's like, obviously it's not directly correlated. Of course we want to see the heat, of course we wanna see that. But at the end of the day, if the cow ovulates and takes the pregnancy, we're manipulating it anyways. You might as well put that pregnancy in there.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

So, so Robert's gonna be mad at me because he told me it wasn't gonna work and it worked. I wonder if my on my heifer protocol, I'm wondering what it would do for cows. I did that 30 day deal where you cedar'em for two weeks, no drugs. You pull the cedar, chuck it, then wait on day 30 you give'em a shot estimate. That's it. And all my heats are within two days. And like it's just so nice to not have all that extra drugs and all that extra everything. And I'm wondering if that would be successful on

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

So basically it's just the, uh, just the seven and seven without the GNR, without the, uh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

no you

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

cella.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

'em, day one, no shot cedar on day one with no

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Oh, you don't give'em luli on day one either.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

you pull the cedar on day 14, no shot, nothing. You just pull'em on. Day 30 you give'em a shot of estimator, a shot of

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I guess the the consensus is, is that if you have that cedar in there for 14 days, you jerk it. They're gonna cycle within the next three or four days. And then 10 days later they should be reset. I will also wonder if you could even, you could, I know without a shadow of a doubt, you could even spread that out further. You could, instead of doing it 10 days later, you could do it 14 days later and you might even pick up a couple more. That cycled a little late.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't have issues like my cows are cycling, my heifers, recycling.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

And I think management. Management too.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

you might have one or two out of 40, but that's such a minute deal. Just watch'em and if they don't show heat 10 days after that, hit'em

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

like I'm having good success.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

my grade. Uncles that had old, old protocols in it that talked about like chin chalk ball markers on

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Oh yes.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Those are awesome.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

No, they aren't

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

know what, man, if we

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

You.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

out a heifer bowl that we really, really liked, turn out that heifer bowl. And then it's like three days later you come, you pull him and you utilize everything. It won't affect the ones that he

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Right.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

three

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yep.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

and then you just AI them all to him and then turn him back out. I, I wonder if protocols like that, I mean, I don't know. I guess

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

That's crazy,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Boy, I tell you what

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

we could

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I get,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

in the shortest amount of time is what I want to do.'cause

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

right?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

want to be watching heats and breeding. It's like, Vince, you're, you're planting, you're spraying, you're doing all this stuff. Corbin, you're doing a million different things with Myla attached to you sometimes, and sometimes you gotta get her to school. And, and then me, you know, I'm, I'm spread way thin too, and I'm trying to figure out how we can have the most impact in the least amount of time.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

right, exactly. But I can tell you, Joe, given that shot of Luli three days after those cows had, that would make me, that would make me so nervous, like that would make me crazy.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

It is not gonna

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

I know, but the idea of it makes me crazy.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Yeah. Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

we used to use a protocol where you just watch'em for five days and bred any, anything that came in. And then on day five you give'em a shot of Luke and it something about all that time. And, um, that shot of loot would make the ones don't, don't shoot the ones you already bred,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Right?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

the ones that never showed a heat that you haven't bred on. Give them a shot of loot. It

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Do you wanna know my favorite?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

how about this? Have, have either of you used any of them programs? Have you tried any,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

What?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

the Heat Watch or cow sense

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh no, we, do you remember? Um, yeah. What was it? Was it heat? Watch the old one.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

was the original one that had like

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah, I've got, I still got it. Oh, I still got'em. The transmitters are my desk.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

it like rip off their whole hide

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

it off and they,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh yeah. It was terrible.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

No,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

was terrible.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I wonder if we should have some specialists give us some insight on that because I know TJ Gabriel's been using it and it's like 30 bucks and his conception rate has gone nuts. The

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Really?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh yeah. He

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

bucks

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

but it's disposable. That's the problem. You gotta, you can't reuse'em, I don't think. And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

that Cedar's. 15 bucks. It's disposable.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Well, I know, and that's what I was thinking where I was like, man, I might be interested in trying this. The, the problem I sent TJ is I said, what percentage are you breeding between 10 at night and two in the morning? And he said, you'd be shocked how many, like a lot. And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

I'm not doing that.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I don't want to get into that either. I don't want to get into that at all.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Do you know? Do you know who would breed them?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

you missed them, turn, turn a bull in with

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Do you know who would breed'em? Between 10 and midnight. 10 and two. A bull. A bull.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

A bull.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

both.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Yeah.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

love turning out a.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

do it on donors.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

love turning out a good bull.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Well, if I knew that, like some of these results TJ's given me like 85, 90% these crazy high results, if I knew I was gonna do that and I had a slug of them, yeah, I'd go set the alarm and go down and breathe that heifer at that

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Right,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

knew it was right, just so I didn't have to do it again or something

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

right.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

though. Anyways, we covered a lot of ground today, but we haven't been together for a while.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

think we had a lot to say. I think we each had a lot, a lot of things that we've been doing, so, yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Corbin, wait, we've got a,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah. We forgot the commercial. Forgot the commercial. Hold on, gimme a second.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Do it again.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Do that sound again. Do the sound again.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

I've done it twice.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

time.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

No, Amy's gonna do it. Amy's gonna do it.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

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joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Overly

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

overly handsome, functionally long calves.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh, that's something, man. You know, all that stuff though. It's like it's gonna swing, the pendulum's gonna swing and it's gonna swing again, and it's gonna keep swinging. And the programs that are here for the long haul will still be here for the long haul. And the ones who are. to fill some other hole inside of'em will still be trying to fill some other hole inside of them. I mean, every time something like this comes out, I used to get really, really frustrated and hopefully this podcast, I didn't sound fired up. Like just look at it as there's a little bit more noise and it just further galvanizes me and staying committed to what I'm doing and my, what Vince say, call it a on my clear path.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Yeah, my clear path.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

path.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Uh, essentially, essentially, yeah, just, just stay the course. People just keep doing what you're doing, this new stuff. It means so little. At the end of the day, it means nothing. It means nothing. It's not going to make your world better. It's not gonna make your world change. I'm sorry, I I, I'm glad that some of you might have found some anomalies and some outliers that are really high on some of these traits. It's not gonna make your cow herd better at the end of the day. Hopefully it becomes a tool that we can use for the long run. But who knows? I.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh, God bless Chevy.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Shout out Chevy baby.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Oh, we ready to wrap this thing up?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

Oh yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

Hey, and wrap. Last

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147:

Chevy. Oh, Chevy. I saw your text.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144:

another plug though. Seriously, thank you. To our listeners, thanks for staying with us. Uh, look up the herd report on that special from, um, Jason Meen and David Yak. Very important humanitarian stuff. And, uh, Vince, go ahead and close us out buddy.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206:

been so long. I don't even remember what, oh. Where you at? Tumor. Take us out. Catch y'all next time.

We will see you next time around the shoot.