Around the Chute

How Did We Get Here?

• Vince Santini • Episode 11

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In this episode of 'Around the Chute,' the hosts discuss the recent controversy stemming from the Angus Association's acceptance of a $4.85 million research grant from the Bezos Earth Fund and the Global Methane Hub. The conversation covers members' frustration over a perceived lack of transparency, concerns about the implications of a methane emissions EPD for Angus cattle, and the need for better communication and member engagement in decision-making processes. They also delve into possible solutions for bridging the gap between the board and its members.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

All right, boys, we're rolling at 42 seconds.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

The following is not a facetious commercial. Welcome to around the Shoot. How's everybody been? Take two.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I'm good. I'm good. It was a pretty day here. Tried to combine a little bit, got frustrated. The combine was having issues. Uh, finally got rolling and the moisture was a little too high. We got everything put back in the shed and we pulled the last thing in the shed. It started drizzling some rain and the rest of the day is gonna be with you guys.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

It sounds like you did a lot of work and didn't get anything done.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

my kind of days right there. I love those days.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Where'd you go to lunch?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

It bees that way sometimes

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

bi, the bistro. I had some ribs. so good.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

ribs,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

off

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

good? They smoking fresh every day.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

every day. Fresh.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

So you off the cycle on

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I could eat ribs. I.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

doing that anymore?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

were out them.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

What the heck?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

That's what I

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

it's, it's so good they can't keep'em in stock. You know, I could eat ribs. I think it's better.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

what's.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

it's better,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

you guys a couple times

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

but.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

we're just gonna have to be patient and give you guys more airtime in case it's a mess. Again, sorry to our listeners, we had a nice two hour podcast where we've already done this once and uh, yeah, I had a fan going in the background or something and it caused us to skip. But we've been just, I don't know, we've ever ran this hard, this long. Shipping cattle, moving cattle, ping cattle, entering weights, um, all that stuff. But Corbin, Vince, I mean. don't know if I've had a couple weeks in my life that have ever quite sucked. The wind outta my sails, like, like, have been sucked out this week. Um, been drawing, it's been drawing, investing in so many people calling, which I'm thankful for. Thank you everybody for reaching out to us. But it's been a chore, hadn't it?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Well, and on top of that here, it's been, uh, which I'm thankful for this, but it's been raining pretty well every day. So, um, rather than being able to be out spraying weeds or thinking about bailing hay or getting stuff together, uh, working on equipment, I've pretty much been, me and Milo pretty much been in the house, so, um, I feel like I've been inundated and more involved with what's been going on than, I mean, I'm still not as, as crazy in the middle of it as a lot of people, but, um, I feel like I've been right at the forefront of the information wave. So it's kind of, it's kind of exhausting and I haven't really been able to do much. So

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

exhausting I got to spend, I got my vacation, uh, talking to people on the phone about all this, so it was really wonderful.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Where'd you go?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Panama City Beach again, and it

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yeah. Yeah. How was the weather down there?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

it was, it was hot. It was hot. Uh,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

So, so you do have a, you could tell you've been out in the sun. Yeah. You've not been in the cab tractor for the past week. You've been, uh, you've been elsewhere. Do you, uh, are you, do you go get in the ocean or are you scared of sharks?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Well, I mean, I'm not saying I'm not scared of sharks. If I met a shark, be scared if I was in the ocean and I looked up and there was a shark. You're right here. Yeah, I'd be scared. but no, it's not like I don't go in the ocean because sharks live in the ocean. Um, no, we actually brought, uh, our, our pup with us and took her to the dog beach and Nate and uh, I think maybe it was Sophia. Anyway, somebody pup sitted. So me and Amy could go to the beach together for a little bit. an hour down there and I was done. That was it.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

That was it. That's all he needed.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

'cause the water was so rough you couldn't get in the water and for, for a

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Oh, he couldn't get no water.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

uh, the day after we left, it was, um, the, we were seeing where people were posting on Facebook. The seaweed was so, so bad that we were, we

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

That's so gross. Have you ever had seaweed on you?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

it.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

It's disgusting. If you've ever, I will have some listeners that have definitely been to the Gulf of Mexico, um, outta Galveston, down there in Texas, the Gulf of America. Yes, that is correct. That is correct. And I am glad that the crap show that's going on in Washington t Washington, DC can still. Be at the forefront of everyone's mind. Um, so what's going on in American Hanks Association and what with what we're doing is probably an afterthought to most people. Thank goodness. Let's, let's do it. Let's, let's not bring attention to it if we don't have to. I don't, I don't think we really want to.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

We lost Joe.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

No, you

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Is Joe there?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

It's just that I got like these wind chimes in this room I'm next to. And if we explain to listeners, I had a fan going in the background that made it all choppy. Now I'm all worried that that's gonna do something. I, I don't even know what to do anymore. Honestly, I'm so exhausted by the topic and the subject matter. Um, I want more Panama City Beach. What do

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I heard that.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

What? What do you do? Are you, you don't drink, so are you playing cards or board games or

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I just watched tv.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

you just watch tv? You don't

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

much TV though,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I sit in the, I sit in the air conditioning and I watch tv. Oh, I watch about

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

That sounds.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

every night, and that's about it. I'll turn it on while I go to sleep.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Wow. I just got done with a series of meetings, um, at a, at the board that I sit on, um, here in the state that I really, really, really love. We had a series of great meetings and good, uh, know, civil or servant work for, um, the membership. We had a lot of members going and we've done a good job of shifting the focus, um, know, back on the members, which has always been a priority of mine. And, you know, uh, think with this Angus thing, guys, I'm not here to steer the ship or anything, but we're kind of at the point we have to talk about it, um, on this podcast. And we were out on it pretty early. We were talking about it really early. I wasn't around, I was in, uh, Denver when this all would've broke, but we were talking about it and then we did not release a podcast, if you guys remember. And then, um, we did release the last one we did. Time has revealed a lot, I think, in this particular subject. I think it's a way for us, there've been what Corbin 3, 4, 5, 6 is. Is, is there, is there in the,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Not five, not six, not seven.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

double digits worth of podcasts about this subject matter. And so I want to make sure that we are describing things fairly and accurately and making it clear how we feel as Angus breeders and try to give our members, the around the shoot version. You know, obviously we have like, uh, like, like, uh, sensors and stuff, so we have to keep our language clean because we've definitely been passionate about this issue. But we broke it up, um, into kind of some topics and. We thought we should just start with how we got here, because some of you all listening are like, what are you guys even talking about? Because you don't tune, tune into social media, or you may not hear until it's too late or you hear rumblings. I don't think that's gonna be the case with this one.'cause the first thing, as soon as I stepped into the meeting room I was in this week, uh, everybody's like, what's going on with Angus? And, uh, but how did we get here? We're gonna go in a timeline, um, of media, of when the media put out to the public what was happening. And so, to be fair, this isn't a perspective, it's not Angus perspective grant, award or perspective. This is April the eighth is the first publication PR release on this subject matter. It's from the Bezos Earth Foundation. Um, I'm looking it, it says press release. I do not see an author. I'm going to read through a piece about it and I'm just gonna read the read the, uh, top piece. It says, Bezos Earth Fund and Global Methane Hub Launch,$27.4 million Initiative to breed low methane livestock across four continents. New global effort aims to cut livestock emissions through natural science-backed breeding methods. April the eighth, 2025. For the first time, scientists and breeders across the globe are joining forces to slash methane emissions from livestock backed by 19.3 million from the Bezos Earth Fund, and 8.1 million from the Global Methane Hub. A new initiative will fund research and breeding programs across North America, Latin America, Europe, Africa, and Ocean to help herds emit less methane. Naturally, the funding will support grants that deliver the tools to identify low emission cattle and sheep based on biological traits and help breeding programs select animals that are naturally more climate efficient. The quote from their director of Future of Food at the Bezos Earth Foundation, Andy Jarvis says, reducing methane from cattle is one of the most elegant solutions we have to slow climate change. to collaboration with the Global Methane Hub, we're backing an effort that uses age old selection practices to identify and promote naturally low emitting cattle locking in climate benefits for generations to come. And it goes on to talk about methane. And, uh, you know, I would encourage our listeners, uh, in fairness, click around on the Bezos Earth Hub. Um, click around and learn more about this. There's videos everywhere. There's Ted talks of their executive director. It helps you to build, um, a knowledge base of what the worldview is of the funding partner. Now, Corbin, that was April the eighth, and you are going to handle the next correspondence, correct?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

So, April 15th, and I'm just going off of social media, which I think Joe was to, uh, that's where they, they originally, uh, posted the, the methane, the Bezos Fund. Um, which I'm assuming that this article was posted on American Angus's website around the 15th two, wouldn't you think? Joe and Vince?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yeah, I would.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I would say it's safe to assume I did not see it.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I didn't see it either. And I do wonder, um, I don't always do a very good job of checking my email, so I'm also wondering if they sent an email out. I do not think they did, though.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yeah,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I don't feel like that that was something that happened.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

They could email me that I want a million dollars and I would never get it because I don't ever go look at my emails.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I think we're trying to not be provocative too, boys, if we're being frank. I mean, you gotta click on kind of a, uh, pretty benign article title that a lot of people may or may not click on in order to get to the article. And we found it in digging around. So go ahead and walk us through that. Corbin, I'm gonna go back to mute.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

So it's April 15th is, you guys can find this on American Angus Association's Facebook page. Um, the headline, which is the reel, it says, Angus joins global initiative to improve livestock efficiency. So it doesn't say anything about methane or anything of the sort. And then the caption reads, which is a quote from Kelly Vitalik. It says, anytime we can equip Angus breeders with a science-based tools that can help them drive meaningful genetic progress in their herds at no cost to them, that's a huge success. Um, so then you, you read that and you, you don't really get anything out of it. It's very vague. It's very surfacey. So you click this, the link that they provide there, and it links you to an article that is by Sarah Kocher, who's a communications specialist there at the journal. And, um, the headline immediately of the, of the article is, Angus joins Global Initiative to improve Livestock Efficiency, which is the same thing it says on the Facebook page. Then you read the caption right below the title of the article and it reads Angus Genetics Inc. To Lead North American Data Collection for$4.85 million research grant from the Bezos Earth Fund and Global Methane Hub. So there it is, right? There's the, uh, the big topic at hand. That's when it finally, um, is made it, it's finally put in the text that exactly what was going on, because the previous stuff was, I. It was very vague and you didn't really have an idea of what it meant. You had to click around a little bit, which I think in the spirit of things isn't very transparent. So then you go on to read the article and it starts off by saying, joining a new global effort to help beef cattle producers breed more efficient livestock. The Angus Foundation alongside a GI and other research partners in North America, Oceania and Europe, announced the receipt of a$4.85 million re research grant over the next five years. Kelly Vitalik Riley, a GI President, expects to better understand the genetic differences in energy efficiency between animals, emit different levels of methane, allowing for new genomic tools to enhance the already robust toolkit available to the beef industry. So there, um, you kind of get a grasp of what is really happening. Um,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

And Corbin and Vince, did you

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I don't know.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

to cut you off. Corbin, please finish. Uh,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

go ahead.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I'm gonna speak for all of us. None of us know what was going on until, um, I did not know on the eighth. Did not know with the 15th, we did not see that information. It wasn't until the 17th. the beef magazine had one that started circling around and I got a text from a friend, um, where beef, the magazine put out a, uh, a little, um, just kind of some click, almost click bait, and then you click on it and then you could actually see. And it said The initiative will, uh, fund methane reducing reduction efforts across major livestock. Lemme repeat that. The initiative will fund methane reduction efforts across major livestock producing regions and breeds with contributions from each entity, including from the Bezos Earth Fund. 2.34 million to the University of Nebraska to lead research on low methane beef genetics and commercial and crossbred cattle, million again to the Angus Foundation to integrate low methane traits into beef cattle breeding programs in North America, Oceana and Europe. And it goes on to a couple different that aren't as germane to our discussion after that. Um, there started to be some other podcasts that started digging into this quite a bit, and that's when the churn kind of started on social media and it started to gain a lot of attention. On June the sixth after their board of directors meeting, the American Angus Association came out through their podcast with kind of a question answer Um, again, June the sixth, where there were three directors present, um, the president

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

It was the special committee. The committee?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Was it the executive committee? Is that

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yeah, the executive committee. Yeah.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

But I don't think, uh, I think one member was a bonus, by the

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Maybe. Maybe one member was a bonus, but it was the

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

you guys can look all that information up. I'm not gonna mention the names. You two can choose to mention'em if you want. I just, um, we'll get

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

No,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

podcast. Some other ramifications. I don't, I don't want to be calling out individuals. I, I.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

do, want to

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

second and go back to what you just read. It's supposed to help with methane reduction. Is that what you said? How are we gonna reduce.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Let's Beef Magazine spin on it, or is that something that,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

you

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

which it did.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

out. Was that from Beef Magazine or was that from put out from the Methane Hub or Bezos.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

That was put out. That last one I just read was from beef, the magazine or the beef magazine, whatever. Um, but that was the language with the methane hub too, because we've seen members come out when the social media storm happened, there were plenty of members that were against. Um, and there were plenty of member, uh, there was a handful of members that started to churn up some support. And the members who churn up the support were saying, Hey, this is about cowherd efficiency. This is about cowherd efficiency. I think part of this, we'll get to why the members are mad piece in a second, but the PR debacle here is, is that you've got one entity saying. This is for efficiency and we're going to use methane as the tool

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yes. Yes.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

you have one other entity that's saying this is about methane reduction

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

So,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yeah,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

a, that's a problem.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

but couldn't, can't, I, Vince Santini go out within my own herd and kind of pick out what I think is the most efficient cows here, because there's not gonna be a way that they can say, animal A eats more grass than animal B. So therefore, animal A is not as efficient. How, how, how are they gonna, you see what I'm saying?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

unfortunately. Unfortunately, I. That's exactly what they're going to do. That's, that's, that's kinda what I foresee is gonna happen. Don't you, Joe? I mean there's,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

is the process is. Cows on grass figuring out how much they eat. And then there's these some sort of facilities or chambers that measure the methane that they emit.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

So, okay. Cow A farts a lot more than cow B, so she must have eaten more grass.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Right,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

to that. I think it's more, it's more

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

because it makes the more,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

rumination

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

more, the more they eat, the more they fart or burp basically.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I don't know. We'll find out.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

is where I'm unclear. I, I think after listening to a couple of these correspondence, I'm, I'm left with more questions than answers. I don't understand the process. I don't really think that's what a lot of this is about. I told you guys that,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Well, if I have a, if I have a pasture full of grass and I have 20 or 40 or 50 or what, however many animals on it, I should be able to. Ride through them and see who is converting the grass into weight.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

It should be very apparent, shouldn't it? It should be something you, you should be able to observe.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

to do. That may not have anything to do with efficiency and it may not have anything to do with methane, but

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

It does have something to do with efficiency, but maybe not in the way that they're going to gather that information. Because the way that I see efficiency, it does, it does have your observation, your personal observation of certain cow families that stay fleshy and things like that. Ones that you know which ones are up grazing, you know which ones are eating more. Ones that are always in the bunk, ones that stay fat on air. Um. So, yeah, I would say that yes, your observation of efficiency is probably different than what they're talking about. It's probably different, probably different, different uses of the word.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Correct. So is the word really efficiency?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

It's a, it's, isn't it more of just like a buzzword that gets thrown around in order to,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I don't know. I mean, I could have the skinniest cow in the field and she could be the most efficient in their eyes because she don't eat as much grass, but she also looks like a hot dog with legs.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

and then so and so is, is this cow really efficient? If she's that hard doing, probably not raising as big of a calf, probably not breeding back. Probably not a very good cow. But yet, um, according to this study, um. Which I, I think at the end of the day, we're gonna have an EPD with this information on it, and I'm, I'm, I'm very concerned that, um, I'm not gonna, we're not gonna get a good representation of what efficiency really is in this number,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I feel like we're just gonna slice our cow herd in half again, or we're

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

every time.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

right.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

you, you, it's I, I've told you guys this before. It's the prime yield grade one freak that could win the PGS show, who also has perfect feet breeds right back. That's what we are led to believe. That we have to breed for all the time. And I always say at what cost? Because all of these businesses are built on a economic foundation. I mean, these operations are just now, Corbin and I were talking about this, Vince, while you were trying to edit the previous podcast. You know, are finally enjoying some economic times of prosperity where we're catching up on things. Maybe people are purchasing some infrastructure. They've neglected for some time. They're buying some new vehicles. Finally, they're reinvesting and seeing the daylight. And now, you know, well, by the way, we also did release three new other traits that came out last week at the same time where people are going, man, this says that half of my herd is favorable for this half of my favor. My herd is not favorable for that. And I think you really touched on something as a stockman. That's always been, when this first came out, I didn't know anything about the Bezos Earth Fund. Not a thing. And I was troubled by the headline of Angus to integrate breeding philosophies or strategies, and I thought that's kind of an arrogant stance because I write a lot of checks to Angus and I implement the strategies. The breeder is the star. And it's not that I'm looking for the spotlight, but I am saying that all of you who listen, and all of you who register calves and all of you who invest in Angus bulls, you all are the ones that deserve the spotlight. As the person who integrates a program, you integrate a program based or a, a, a a solutions, whatever you want to call it. You integrated into your breeding program based upon your resources available time capital. Um, environmental resources, talent, all of those things. And guess the top down approach in feeling like you don't have a say. We'll get to why people are frustrated, but Vince, you touched on it. If she's fat, I feel like, uh, anymore I'm really satisfied with where my hurt is. I've told you guys this. When I look across'em, I'm really pleased and I see things that we can tinker with, but I'm really pleased and we're meeting a lot of the goals that we've said that we would provide to commercial cattlemen. And to have someone say, well, do you really know how much she eats Joe? I'm like, well, my utilization of a paddock isn't too high. not overgrazing individual plants. We're putting carbon right back into the soil. We are, we're browsing on, on Forbes and brushes and our utilization of range land isn't taken away. Fact is, boys look right next to me at a golf course. 200 acres of golf course that's been mothballed since COVID. deer don't live there. live where the cows are. We're creating habitat. We're part of the ecology. We're part of the solution. And I feel like, man, we will get to the, that part, but I, I feel like we crawled in with a narrative says that there's something to improve when my life work has been trying to do good. And that's frustrating.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

The, you know, you're, you, you made mention a minute ago of all the new EPDs that we already have, and now we're come, we're. They're gonna come out with that regardless for the meth. EPD, I just hope they call it meth or dollar meth. That would be awesome.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Yeah.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Um, you know, the, the thing about it is what point are we gonna quit looking for more stuff and take a step back and say, you know, we should quit coming up with new stuff and then just try to make the stuff that we have accurate because it's not, uh, the EPDs that we have now are as inaccurate as they are accurate. I, I, I would say 50% accuracy. Um, and the, the other thing is, every single time they come out with an EPD, they're creating a bottom and a top in the middle. So every day we wake up. And every Friday when we wake up and they come up with a new EPD, Hey, we got this new EPD, blah, blah, blah feet and utter tets and and functional longevity, my herd goes downhill. Some of'em go to the top, some of'em go to the bottom. And that's with the whole nation's cow herd. That's with your herd, Joe, your herd, Corbin and mine and everybody listening, some of'em are gonna, there's nobody that's gonna have'em all go to the top. So when they start telling people, look at this EPD, you can believe in it. You can, um, breed your cows off of it. You can wholeheartedly do everything with it and it's inaccurate. Or your cattle have a low EPD and they tell everybody it's the cat meow. And people look at your cows and say, well, it's dollar Seas only, uh, 200. So that's in the top 80% That thing's no good. That's crap, man. I know that they develop these things as tools, but the way they promote them is not in a tool fashion. It's a breed by this fashion. Am I the only one that thinks that receives that message?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

No, I think that's how a lot of people feel. I think that us being proprietors in these businesses affords us the opportunity to have freedom, to allow the third party verification of the free market to figure it out. And I know that I said a lot of words there, but basically we're saying our customers can make choices. And as the small business owners that we are across this great land, we could build any kind of widget we want to, especially here. I'm always triggered to say because, because I think it sounds good. I think when you package it up, it sounds good, and people go, man, this person sounds smart, or whatever. And, and it's a very natural thing to want to do, to sound good. Words mean things and I wanna be careful'cause somebody will use that against me in the future too. And sometimes I'm wrong with the words I choose, I am. But when you say we gotta make this cow better, when you say she has to improve to be relevant. When you say things like that, I think about the words and then backtrack. And I think, where have we come? As an industry and as breeders from 20 years ago, years ago, we talk about the nation's cow herd, never rebuilding. We're producing the same pounds of beef. How good of a steward is that breeder to be able to meet that challenge? done it. They've got along just fine. So how bad is the Angus cow? hard do we have to press genetic improvement? I've been a part of some meetings lately, some really innovative ones I thought talking about recruiting young people and young talent into this business and making kids want to come back. These are the very things, gentlemen. These are the very things that make my Bennett go, why are we doing this, dad? Why We cut a stake off of her. Everybody loves our story. Everybody loves what we do. Everybody enjoys the eating experience. They can see our consumer, Vince, our consumer, can look, see, touch, and taste. They could look, see, touch, taste. They can hear all of the good that we do right in our communities. But to think that we always have to do better, that frustrates me. It frustrates me a lot. And that is, that is the message that I had relayed before. You know, I know that it's natural for people to demand progress. Demand progress. I think we need to normalize demanding progress in terms of profitability of small family farms. I. That's how we should

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Uh, yeah.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

it on Corbin. Can you go take Mya to dance today or do you have to

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yeah. I.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

work because you can't afford an employee? Can you go hang out with Nate at the beach or did you have to stay back for three days?'cause you guys can't afford extra help or you can't find it. These are the discussions we need to be stacking a na on a pen head about not making the Angus cow better. Let

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

On a piece of paper.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

that out on a piece of paper. Yes sir. Yes sir.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

You know, um, my whole takeaway from, from most of this is that perception is reality. And I'm the type of person that goes on, you know, Instagram and certain pages, and I read through comment after comment of, of conversation bet uh, between people that aren't part of this industry, their perception of what we are and what we do. And, uh, for the most part it's good. For the most part, people are really excited about eating a nice tasty steak. Um, but then there is a, a contingency of people who believe that this is a problem. They believe that. The cow emission of methane while they sit in a city and use an air conditioner and burn gas through their car and do all these things to, to emit 10 times the pollution of a cow. Um,'cause I know I do wanna point out that whenever I'm outside at night, I can see stars. But whenever I go to highly populated areas, there's no stars to be seen. So I think that that says a lot too. But, um, to get back to the point, perception is reality. And I think by taking this money, it's almost an admission of guilt, whether you want it to be or not. Um, we all believe in, no, in our hearts that cows are not part of the problem and for us to have to research it, it, it is just something that's so disheartening. It's something that I didn't ever think I was gonna have to worry about my own association. Playing into the narrative that I, that I hear on, uh, certain social media pages that cows are a problem. I, I never thought that I would have to be defending myself against my own association.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I would agree. And, you know, instead of doing this, I mean any, any of the stuff that they do, really not, not just this meth, EPD dollar meth, um, instead of coming out with a new EPD to make it simple for somebody to be able to evaluate a cow on that piece of paper, why not teach them, Hey, instead of reading this EPD, that this cow has bad feet. walk over here and look at this cow's feet and evaluate'em and talk about it. Instead of reading this EPD that this cow's utter, it says she's in the top 95%. Let's just go look at the, the, the tets and utter on this cow and see if, see what we're looking at. Because there's a lot of people that breed cows really don't know these things. They don't know if a cow's got a good hip. They don't know if a cow is chunky fronted. They don't know that the female that they're posting on Facebook that they're bragging about looks like a steer. And if that's what they like, that's totally fine. educate the people instead of trying to make more boxes with numbers in them. That's my, that's where I have such a pet peeve with all of it.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

You know what's amazing is we search so hard to quantify things that seem like we don't need to be quantifying them. We could allow the breeder to describe them and quantify them, but do we ever spend time trying to quantify. The human capital element that we have as breeders. Like why not quantify that? Why not say what is the value that these people have in their communities? What are the value that these people have in industry? What is the value of having a breeder that lasts 25, 30 years instead of the churn of five years in and then out and five years in and then out? What does it say? Uh, I think it's a signal to young people that the video game culture can do it. I think that's what pushes us towards, it pushes us hard towards vertical integration. I think it pushes us hard towards a very consistent nutrient supply to a cow, whether that's through the planes to a feed yard, you know, these diverse environments. I don't think most people have been out and seen, I don't think people have seen Lehigh and Lima and people haven't seen Auburn, California and know how magical it is that this cow, I mean, that's what I was talking to my grass fed guy, and he's been, uh, on the covers of magazines and does some incredible, incredible work of connecting to consumers that typically would vote against things that, um, we would want. And he starts off his story. At one point he said, you know what the coolest thing was at COVID is I looked out. I could see across the horizon where I could never see before, and there was no jet lines in the sky. And it dawned on him, it was all the smog from China that was coming over and hitting us that we didn't even know what it was like without it. We didn't even, it was so normalized. And he says to his people, the superpower these cows have is to take some sunlight, some water, and a little bit of soil that into one most nutrient dense food sources in the world. Man, let's tell that story because the people want it. You guys paid attention to carnivore diet. You could see my jawline. I've told you about Abby and her health. carnivore diet is gaining a lot of steam across the country and people are feeling better and they're doing better. And we just have so much good stories to tell. I don't know why sometimes we just have to get in our own way.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Can you do the convo diet with the fake beef?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I think we better figure the out, the answer to that because

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I haven't had my lawyer

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I bet you there's,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

yet, that I came up with this. I've

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I bet you are. Uh.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

because I'm like, I'm thinking, well, if it was Angus soul culture, then maybe, I guess, I

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Uh,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

But um,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I think our, uh, I think our new partner is trying to research that very thing.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

absolutely.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

brings a good segue, Corbin, because I don't think any other podcasts have delved into, um, this side as much. And if I haven't listened to them, I'm sorry. We've been so doggone busy. I'm not even kidding. And I know you two have too, the one piece we haven't really unpacked, and I know that people who think they're really important and people who are really important listen to this podcast, whether they admit it or not. And there have been responses to words we've said through other media. I want them to hear us say it so that later on they can respond. Why are people, so I've heard it said on podcasts, people are passionate. No, no. People are upset. Why are they upset?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

They're Tod is what they are.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

they're upset because it's, I don't think it has, it does have a lot to do with who we got in bed with, but I think it's as much, I know it is, for me anyway, the fact that we just keep doing more and more and more stuff like that, the membership is, doesn't want, and IJI think that's a lot of it. Like they just feel like these people are just taking their money and they're going and doing all this stuff that they don't want, that's not gonna help. And they feel like they've been taken, they feel like nobody's really representing them. Their thoughts'cause there's a huge disconnect between the membership and the board. That's my 2 cents. What do you think Corbin?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

That's exactly how I feel about the whole situation. I mean, yeah, it's one thing to, to look back at, step back and look at what we've actually done. It's another thing to think that is this even what the membership would've wanted if you had asked us? I mean, it's one thing for, for there to be a handful of people that are frustrated because this isn't what they wanted. I think when you take a step back, I don't feel like we're in the minority and, and being a little upset about this. I mean, maybe we're just a loud minority, but I just, if there's this much frustration over the whole situation, may, why are we, why did we make the decision before we, we ask for input from, from people that might be upset. That's what the information is, just not traveling to the members the way that it should. And, and I know they've owned that in some of their, their podcasts and stuff, but I'm sorry, you can't just. To make mistake after and just say, yeah, we own that. That was our fault. You can't just continue to do that and, and, and maintain the trust that I don't trust you. How could you trust?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

frank, I think, uh, a lot of it was a PR debacle to start with. Um, PR wasn't handled correctly, but pre preceding that before that is exactly what Vince had to say. It's not knowing your membership, understanding your membership, and applying the logic that your membership does of what they want you to focus on and what they don't want you to focus on. And, um, I know that we'll get to the solutions portion later and I'll talk about that a little bit. Um, because cited in one of the podcasts was the long range strategic plan. we need to think about a long range strategic plan a little bit differently. Maybe we don't need to be so long in our planning to where this was, you know, thought up eight months or eight years ago and this is the rails we're on. Well, this isn't where the people are at right now. Where the people are at is we don't want to be doing this. And I think that was abundantly clear a host of reasons. Some people don't think we should be studying methane. Some people don't like the person you're dealing with and some people don't want more traits. There's like 6, 7, 8 different issues here that of which you have a differ, a diversity of thought on all of them. And to watch navigated and not represented in a boardroom, I think, or it perceives like it's perceived like it wasn't represented in the boardroom. That's where the anger comes from. That's where the blowback comes from, is listen, we don't have to call an email every single time we have a gripe. If I'm paying into an organization, it is not on me to make sure that, you know my every thought. mean, we need to, to reject that immediately. I think that the onus is on the others to make sure that they're reaching back to the people who are funding them. And we do have some really, really highly paid people who should ensure that divisions like this do not occur. That's my opinion. I've had, I had one guy call me on fire saying, we ran publicly traded companies and if this happened in a publicly traded company, be a non-starter. It'd be an absolute, the consequences would be a lot different than I, my bad. Um, and it was followed up by

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yeah, exactly.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

up by other PR debacle. And I think there were other issues we talked about in the recent, uh, three years that we've been on airwaves of different topics that were handled very similarly, where the membership threw a fit and it was like, well, you know, we hear you, but at some point if you want to improve. People trusting. You have to act on what they, they, they feed back to you. Um, you know, you can't get the outrage and then, and then say we're gonna do this or that. Unless you have really, really good reasoning. And I think that when you apply logic and rationale to all these different statements and information that we've been fed as a membership of which become conflicting, that's when the membership becomes uneasy. That's step one. And that's one camp. Do you guys have something to add on that? Because I'm gonna keep going if you don't.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

No, I think. I think we're ready. We're ready to step to it.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

wouldn't you, wouldn't you like them? And now granted, you and I both just admitted that we do not check our emails, right? Like we should.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Mm-hmm.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

But wouldn't you like, uh, to do a questionnaire or a survey that said, you know, we're thinking about doing this methane deal. Um, what do you guys think about it? Take the temperature of the, the room. You know what I'm saying? Um.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

That would make sense

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

it wouldn't make

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

instead.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Now, I, I mean, they do surveys. I did a survey the other night, uh,'cause when we were digging and looking and they wanted to know, uh, how many days a year I feed, uh, do I feed

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yep.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

do I feed silage? Do I grow my own feed? Do I, uh, rotational grays? So they have, they have the capabilities of doing a survey, um, because they did that one. Now I don't need to weigh in on, hey, we're thinking about getting Angus ink pens, or a new letterhead or some Angus conversation mugs, or whatever it might be. I don't need to weigh in on that stuff, but this kind of stuff that's gonna, uh, affect my pocketbook, that's a big deal. Like this, this methane deal is a big deal. Uh, I do think they should maybe let their membership weigh in on some of that.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I had like to take that even a little bit further because I don't think, I don't think it's, I don't think it's really, oh, you should, you should look out and, and try to get your, your memberships input. I think it was intentionally hidden. I mean, if we go back and look at the headline on their, on their original post, there's nothing in there. It doesn't even say the word methane. So, um, it's not that they didn't want to hear us or it's not that they put something out there and they're sorry that, that they weren't clear. It was intentional. And I think we're kind of glancing over that like. They literally did this right in front of our face, hid it on purpose, and now we're supposed to, you know, believe it. It used, it was just this big PR debacle. No, it was very, very calculated.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I would say that if you, again, apply logic and rationale, it's hard to get all the dots to line up here. That's what's frustrating to the membership and that's why they're mad. That's all the first piece though, gentlemen. And that was the piece I was at before I even knew

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Foundation or the Methane Hub. then you get to other people who spend time reading and researching and are more involved in this space that I am and I start poking around and there's a lot of people who are over the top. Um, and I think justifiably so about the funder that we chose because now you've divided into camps where that I don't trust the funder who would spin rhetoric differently. Is it this way? Is it that way? Um, this is a person who has invested heavily in fake meat. Um, this is a person who has invested in a vaccine for improving methane emissions in cattle. Um, there's some members that are saying, if we valued this study and, and I've, I'm not gonna pirate this. I didn't say this, um, but I like it if it was this value to valuable to us to study cowherd efficiency. And it happens that methane was the metric of how you measure that, put it to the membership and say, this is really, really important and we need to fund this. And you either get it funded in the snap of fingers. I got news for you guys, 4.85 million, a lot of money.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Note the annual revenue of American Inga Association, which we looked up also the other night is 50 million

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

million

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

and$50 million a year.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

a

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yes. Yes. And$4.85 billion. What's that to Jeff Bezos?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

if you bring

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

He.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

along, because the survey that came out had like 3,500 members, and so immediately the response is we have 28,000 Angus members. It wasn't that many people even responding if you bring all those 28,000, if they are active, which I don't think they are, I think there's a lot less than that. But if you bring all those people along, you don't have to get much money outta all of them to fund studies that they would prioritize. know lots of people that would, I would write a check for something that I believed in, that I would prefer my breed association own and house than taking the money from someone else. And, and I've heard it said that we'll own all this and on and on, but I just, um, then I question, what was the gift about and why the gift. The gift.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yeah, it's.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

And, and I don't want to go conspiracy theory on here, guys, like that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying gimme something logical. Like, I guess this guy's just really, really charitable, gave some money to us.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

No.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

And then, and then it's, it's also frustrating that, that it was, it was said in the, in the podcast they had that they wanted to, they did this because they wanted to control the narrative. It, that's the exact opposite of what, so there was a lot of things that they say that's like, well, that's the exact opposite of what your actions are. I mean yeah, you're, you're just trying to spin it now. But for you to sit there and say, we want to control the narrative, and then you take money from the fake meat, whatever, whatever. He is the Godfather. Um, it's a bad look.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

just became the, the biggest influencer of cattle breeding in the world.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

And he don't even own a cow.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Never caved one cold, one, nothing. I.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

owns. He owns fake cows, fake meat.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

um, and again,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

All he did was, uh, write a check for one.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

What.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Did, did, did we have bad service? Did one of us bad service there?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

wrote a check for what? Corbin

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Oh, he wrote a check for one 150th of his, I mean, it's no money to him. I mean,$4 million to Jeff Bezos is a drop in a hat, and, and it, it's all it took for him to control an entire narrative.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Yeah. And, and I think you can dig around. I would encourage people, dig around, find out more. I would encourage the, the board, um, actually if you listen to dig around and learn more about, um, this foundation and this hub and, uh, maybe

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

They've done that.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

maybe this isn't really what they are, but they're saying they are that through their multimedia correspondence and through their webpage and things. we covered the first two reasons why people are mad. The third one I wanted to touch on is Uncertainty is another reason. We all work really, really hard to try to control all aspects of our business and manage risk. when we feel like a big, big risk that was dropped on us that we didn't really feel like we asked for, that makes me nervous for my customer base. My business is gonna be fine. I'll figure it out. I could pivot. Um, I'm, I'm worried about the future for my kids all the time. That's why I donate hours and I try to build a positive story about the benefits of beef production. Um, but my customers, and that's honestly guys, if we, if anyone's critical of us being a little bit quiet or a little bit subdued online, specifically me is because want this brand to be, I. Have huge ramifications that trickles down to the commercial cattlemen. It's gonna be heartbreaking for me if I can't sell commercial wolves. And I've had some people say that actually to be absolutely a hundred percent honest. And that's their right, and that's how they will speak their opinion is through, uh, how they spend their dollars. But I just hope there's no ramifications for them at the meet case. That's what I hope.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Well, and think, and think of this too, like in Vince's point of view, if he's selling females and, um, there's a world where Vince doesn't sell an animal because of, of her methane, um, because of, of what that number says later on. So, I mean, yeah, it's, it's something that we have no control over. And that, that you're, you're thinking about cutting my cow herd in half or, or putting something, maybe adding value to something that's of less value to me, um, just based on some research that you're gonna do. I, I, I just didn't sign off on that. I don't, is the risk worth it? I mean, what's the point?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Well, and I guess that's the position I had is that if you don't do this, what kind of position does it put you in? And then if you do do this, what kind of position does it put you in? And I

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

the arti, they would, it would get articulated that 20 years from now, we want to have an Angus breed. And I prefer saying 20 years from now, I want Angus breeders to still be in business. individual breeders, the individual people. uh, I did not say do comma, do you just put on the text that

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

They do

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Why do I do that?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

what they do. Do.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

those out?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Why do you do do that?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Now she's gonna have to edit all

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

What would you,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

But anyways, Vince said, uh, Vince goes, or, or Corbin said something about Vince's cattle and how he sells'em in the methane EPD and things like that. And Vince was shaking his head yes. I told you guys one of the biggest threats other than development for access to land for me out here

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

me. Oh, good.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

know,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

mm-hmm.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

livestock gentlemen?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

my

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Oh, yes. Yes. I.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

wait. What was, what was her name? What was that? Uh,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Jane, yes.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

that? What was that cow's

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Oh, Jane, and what was her cow's name?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Sundance, lone Star, um, broccoli, Sundance, lone Star, Corbin. You should remember their names. I send them

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

What was the one that

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

You know, they, uh, it, do you know, I hope Jane's, I hope Jane, I hope Jane got rid of those. Because, because this whole study, um, puts in jeopardy the, the, the very premise of, of recreational cattle

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Corbin, think about it

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

puts it in.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

mean, if they don't have a methane EPD, then they don't have one. They don't em admit

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

It's true,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

they don't

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

that's true. They don't have an EPD for it.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

thing.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

And, and then I, my big, I do have a big fear, although I do, it's not a big fear, but this is a statement that I'm just trying to say. What are you hoping to gain? Basically? Like, okay, let's say. We go through all these studies and we figure out that cows are the worst thing for the environment. They aren't. Okay. That might be the narrative that's spun, but I'm just gonna sit here and tell you that it, it's the stupidest narrative in the world. Um, but let's just say for argument's sake that that's what they find and that these cows are a huge problem. What puts beef in general in jeopardy, does it not?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

one.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Why do we need to do that?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

you. They keep talking about, I've heard it said we need to produce more with less land, more with less land, more with less land. What if we actually got home, uh, like home ownership in the cities prioritized to go up instead of out with their building. What if we actually put our feet down

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yeah.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

or conserved? Some open space gave ranchers enough gross margin, um, that ranchers could through the market. Of course, could stay in business and not convert to houses. There were generational farms. Again, now I'm not going to submit to the battle that there will be less ca less land to run cattle on. I think there's opportunities, I think there's more land available all the time. If we could get it away from the wild horses and the wolves and all these things that are getting introduced that keep cra they keep whittling away at the access to land that we have and all we did is add another selection tool on top of it. So recreational livestock, wild horses. I mean, we could go on and on. And I haven't been necessarily interested in diving into those trenches because I think, again, like I said on the last podcast, this is America. come on. Do you really think that God designed a planet that doesn't take care of itself? We aren't, we aren't spreading synthetic, made, uh, toxins on the soil. This is a regenerative process that works together when these cattle are on grass.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

And that should be the point of view of every single breeder of cows in the entire world. There should be no narrative that says, Hey, we have a problem. You should not put yourself in that situation.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

some might say that God did create the Earth and all the animals on it that we're having a problem, and then he created Jeff Bezos to let us know they were a problem.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

it. That's it.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

That's it. You figured it out. Um,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

be the,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

The methane hub, they created everybody in the methane hub to tell us that they're a problem.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Are they gonna put that after

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

well, think, think how,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

gonna put that after Revelation?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I think it was in the Old Testament.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

you know, it's,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

It was in

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

it's frustrating that, that, you know,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

day or something.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

look it up.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

check that fact. Check

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Look it up.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

GBT. Oh, boys. Do we need to get to some solutions?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yes.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

round table some solutions. Um, Vince, throw one out and I'll cross off my list. I, I kind of kept a list from last night, but I think there's plenty what we are saying about solutions. It is so easy to identify problems. Most of the time people don't offer solutions.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Um, I.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

we've thought through. Go Vince.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I, here's the problem. I scribbled'em out as I was saying them other night.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

You must have scrolled really good. So now you can't see.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

like, so, okay. One thing I do think, the board needs to be a little more diverse. So we can be playing devil's advocate. We can bring up this and that, and they say they do. So maybe they do, maybe the board is way more diverse than I think they are. I find it hard to believe, but that would, I, I've never sat through a board meeting, so, you know, the, I don't know. But I do think a diverse board would solve some problems. Um, I don't think that I, I can see where there might be some pressure in the boardroom to, um, The same way, just because maybe somebody don't wanna be embarrassed or somebody don't wanna look bad or whatever it might be. Um, in, in this situation, at that level, I don't think that can happen. Like it doesn't need to happen. Um, if there's something big and major like this, there needs to be opposition. Uh, there needs to be a lot of devil's advocate played, what's gonna happen if they do this or what's gonna happen if they do that? And maybe that happened. I don't know. They say it happened, maybe they did. But when you have a unanimous decision, it's hard to believe that that happened. Um, some things too, I think could help with the membership be, um, look, post this stuff, um, all the, all the,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Don't hide it.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

and, and, and all the, the. People at the Capitol, every time they vote, it's posted. Who voted for what? Why? Why are these 17 people? I mean, we're not building rockets. We're not making bombs. We're talking about Angus cattle. Um, why not post that? Another thing is I think they should do away with delegates. Everybody can vote. Now. Everybody had to log in online to freaking vote for a delegate. why not just let'em vote for the whole shabazz? Why do we gotta have the delegates?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

And it doesn't even need to be a complicated process. I mean, you go on your login, there's a list of things to vote on, and as a member you make that voting decision. I think put the power into the people and, and quit trying to control the narrative. Might might help.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Also, I don't know. Look, I, I can raise hell with the best of them about a issue like this deal. Um. I do think at some point it gets counterproductive. I do think at some point

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

It

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Absolutely.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

look, this is what's happened. Okay, it's already happened. Now let's try to fix it. Let's come up with some good solutions. Let's come up with whatever. but to, to sit and just be the loud mouth in the corner, which I can be, um, that's, that's counter. It gets to be counterproductive.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Well, and unfortunately some of the people who are carrying this, um, and, and if, if you think I'm talking about you, I'm probably not. Um, they kind of are, some of them are always upset about everything no matter what happens. And,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yes,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

be careful that that's not discrediting the message of some people who have really put a lot of time and effort into thinking about this and been

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

yes.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

And, um, you know, I, I am very hopeful. I'm prayerful in fact that this board. We'll be more concerned about the concerns of the, we'll, what we'll call the opposition than the individuals within the opposition. Look at what these people are saying. Look at the content of what they're saying. Look at those real concerns and come up with a plan to address them. And

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

What about the, uh, what about the people that say, give the money back

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

That would be fantastic.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

as a solution?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I heard an innovative,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

it a, is it a real solution?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

the other day that involved us just saying, we've identified as a study. We've seen how the messaging has gone away. We hadn't intended. So we are going to raise the funds privately to do this ourselves, we don't need it anymore. Now can you give it back? I don't know the answer to that, guys. I really don't, I really don't. I would've, I would've liked to have seen an environment, I think we have this, we've, we've allocated the resources to have the staff in place to have an environment in which we were all cheering this on because we thought it was as impactful as the board of directors. Um, so either it's not, they didn't do a good job of making sure that the membership fully understood the subject matter. Um, and I just, uh, I think I said this on the last one. There is so much wisdom in being a board member and saying, I might not have all the answers, but I know the answers are in the membership. The answers lie in the membership, and there is so much wisdom and time. another red flag about this one for me, is I've heard it said publicly that, you know, this was kind of a quick deal. Like some things lined up and some things happened.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

but.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

If you give some time and allow things to mature, it reveals, you know what, we better just sit this one out. Right?

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

In the, uh, I can't remember if it was in the podcast or, or one of the articles. It does, it does. They do mention that they've been working on this since November. So the narrative that says it's time is, is not, no. Mm-hmm.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

not,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

it's been hidden on purpose.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

not make it publicly known and then say, where the hell were you back when we did this? That's not fair.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Right,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

disingenuous, frankly.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

If you've been working on this since November, this isn't some grant that they just reached out to you and gave you 24 hours to say, check yes or no. And yes, we applied for it and we, we worked together with them. We worked together with the methane people to even get it all finalized. And, and apparently, uh, and listening to today's podcast, there was no question that the, they, they didn't even have to sort through anything after they, they wrote the contracts out.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

because most members, including myself, have really dug through a lot of this and still have the same position, or like, I

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

seen a compelling reason why we need to be doing this,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I mean, do you ha do you, am I the only one that thinks they're giving us this money? And then we don't have to do, uh, we don't have to show'em any of the results what was said. I feel that like, that's really odd.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

well, I would be asking what did

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yeah.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

then?

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yeah, I, I mean, do, do you not think that's odd, that, Hey, I'm gonna hand you almost$5 million to do this research and you don't ever have to show it to us. You don't have to show us research. You don't have to show us proof that you even did it. Um, we're not gonna get any of the results. You keep all the results. I just think that's odd,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I, I think that's what people are saying is, is we're, we're getting put in a position where we're having to question things. And you apply trust if you don't question things. And when you start questioning, like, this doesn't make sense. I've not seen this before, this doesn't make sense, but we need to keep moving through these solutions. Like Vince said, the first one, I think really widening that sphere of influence and, and connecting back with members, figuring out how to empower members and make sure that their voices are heard throughout the boardroom. If you bring them along, you have a bunch of cheerleaders and you don't have a bunch of dissension, or you

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

right?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

out how to avoid the landmines along the way. Um, I think if you'd have done a little bit of workshop and on this one, you'd found out there's way too many landmines to play in this space, unless we own every aspect of it. Um. I think it calls into question some organizational structure stuff is our governing, um, body, the way it is relevant with the speed at which we do business and the diversity of the membership. Now, I don't know when our bylaws and formation and charter was, but it was when, uh, we were in a lot different places, Angus breeders. So I, I would like to, I would like to have that reevaluated at least. Um, I, it goes down this road and this horse is out the barn, down the alley, I do not want a methane EPD on my cattle.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I don't either. I

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I don't either.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I think it could, could they possibly make it optional that it's on the paper?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Well, but

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I haven't talked to the first person that wants it on their paper.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I haven't either. And I also then worry about people saying, well, if Joe doesn't want it, he just leave it blank. And I want mine. I, I haven't talked to people who've said that, but. think that that is disingenuous as a contributor to the database. Um, you know, I, I would have a say on the entire population and how they're represented as well. And I think to, to have Vince not show his and someone else show his people are gonna make inferences on that too. And so I would like to see it all, um, not there. And,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Right.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

if that horse is down the, out, out the barn, down the alley, like I said, if it is, I would like to see that. And here's the biggest one for me, um, besides, I guess, I guess membership engagement is probably the biggest, the second bigness biggest is we need to see some policy on who we align with and who we take money with. is the litmus test of this person is okay with our membership? This one isn't because now I start asking, I've had people ask me questions, are you gonna see a Angus logo next to a this logo and that logo? I don't know. And already had this, uh, we had this a couple years ago when, um, CAB did a couple partnerships or alliances with some other people that people weren't happy about. I had a guy, a big player in the protein industry, not a big player in the cattle industry. Well, he is a big player in the cattle industry, but not loud. Um, but a big player in the protein industry said McDonald's is in the business, is selling protein, protein, loves our business. There's partnership opportunities. I don't know, I haven't vet that out, but I think the affiliation with someone who is seen as a threat to your way of life, uncertainty and angst in the membership.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I would agree.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Absolutely,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

be one of those

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

absolutely.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

It is funny. I had a guy tell me, what about Charles Manson? He wanted to give you$5 million. You take it everybody's

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Well,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

on that spectrum. That's why you

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

yeah.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

that says, this is how we test that. And I didn't mention this, did I mention the, uh, update, the long range strategic plan. I think that that needs to be done. I think we need to reopen it up, look at it and see if it's relevant to the membership and it fits their wishes. And members need to have an opportunity for input. That's not a survey that's mailed, that's not a, a computer generated survey. It's actual eyeball and FaceTime with people in rooms Workshopping this with actual members of the association.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Am I the only one that's not really satisfied with, with. Um, the narrative that we should just call our rep, our, uh, our board members, because that's a non-documented conversation in which nothing gets solved. All it is, is, yeah, you can voice your concerns, uh, reach out to your board members, but you know, it's just not enough. It's not sufficient,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

will say this in their defense, I know that they have done some Zoom meetings with some people.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Oh,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Um. I know, I know for a fact McCulley and JP were on one last night with some guys in Mississippi, so that's, that is helpful and I commend them for doing it. The problem is, I don't think that they could do that with every freaking body. You know, how many of those things

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

and they shouldn't have to. That's why we need better ways to communicate with them.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

correct. And

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

It shouldn't even be a thing. Call your board members shouldn't. Yeah. That should be a thing, but we should be able to voice concerns in other ways that are actually going to be documented and heard and not sending a letter.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

a lot of people say, do it, send an email and you have to email the entire board. So one person can't sell. I never got that email or whatever. Um, there's a bit of a paper trail, but, and I mean, golly, let's, let's just be honest. These guys have been on the phone. Probably more than we've been

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

mean, for sure.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

and I, I'm sick of talking about it and I'm not even a board member.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I am

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I can.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

about

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yep.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Me too.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

but something of this big just consumes every bit of you.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yes.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

mean,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Yes.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

it matters that much. And that's what I was asking. A, a guy asked me, he goes, were you mad when he said passionate? And I said, no, I wasn't mad. I was just like, is, is, what is it? Um, it's. We mentioned this several times, every bit of equity I own my retirement plan has a black hide in a rumen.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Right.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

a salary Zero fact is some of those salaries, if you took like 10% of them and added them to my business, it would be life changing for me. Life changing. And so

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Oh yeah.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

I think, um, think there's another one too. I think you can use. We just redid our whole website, spent a whole bunch of money doing that. There's gotta be a way for member login to create some real time polling mechanism that you could put out a, you could put out on your podcast members for the next 30 days. Send it out to your board. Uh, do a contest. I don't care. But say, how many of you would attend a virtual meeting in this region? Click, click, click, click, click. And then you have

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Hey, they've done that. They've done that before. Yeah.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

Yes. Why aren't we not doing them? I said, do'em yesterday. The structure of them needs to be simple. I've said this to, I'm blue in the face. The staff who is running'em needs to leave their PowerPoint advancer at home, and you leave their microphone at home. Unless, of course they're asked a question and they need to spend time just listening to the members and what the members want, you know, just listen to the members, because I think you would find out what Angus breeders want and what cattle producers want and need are fairly simple things can handle. The rest, they know their customer better than anybody. They know their endpoint better than anybody, maybe they will ask for some tools. Maybe they ask for a tool like this one, but at least they would've been behind it from the jump rather than tear apart everything we've all worked for.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

And I, and I wanna,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

So is that the last of our,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

well,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

ahead, Vince.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

say a couple more things. So, one thing I would like to say is I've talked to a lot of people that are just, they're ready to join the Cemental Association and burn all their paper or convert all their papers there. I've talked to some guys that's just gonna burn their papers and make'em commercial. I, I mean, there's people that are ready and, and commercial guys that are not having any Angus bulls now, blah, blah, blah. There's people, I'm not saying they're overreacting, I'm just saying a beat. Take a minute, get a breath, see how all this is gonna shake out. None of it's gonna happen tomorrow. Let it all unfold. if you still feel that way when it's all said and done, then do it. But don't, I mean it's just like the, I said this other night when we recorded, it's just like the genetic defect deal. There were people hauling their whole herds of cows to the stockyard and didn't even test them. I mean, it was crazy. So just don't overreact, just calm down. See how it's gonna unfold. Those cows are still the same cows they were last week. When they get their dollar meth, EPD, they'll be the same cows they were before they created dollar math. And thing I'd like to say is, you know, we've complained a lot about these board members who are supposed to be representing us. And I, I'm with you. I do feel that they probably didn't represent us. Like we would've hoped to have been represented, but I also wouldn't want to be a board member. Um, I, right. I've been on, uh, the Tennessee board. It was not difficult at all. I could not imagine some of the stuff these boards talk about and be sitting there and having to discuss this stuff and meet and take all the time that it takes away from their families, away from their jobs to do it. So while I'm not happy about some of the stuff that they do, my hat is off to'em to an extent for doing the job.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

hard job. But, um, one thing that I would offer them,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Especially if you.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

offer them as, uh, a little bit of consulting on these hard, hard, hard topics. they're that hard, it's okay to sit some of them out. It's okay. It's okay to not feel like you have to do great things all the time. I think some, some people feel like look for a CAB moment. This big CAB moment is this our CAB moment and maybe we just need to worry about getting through today so we can get to tomorrow. I. And, um, Vince on the last podcast, and I know that we didn't cover, we missed some things. Um, the last one was almost two hours long, but you mentioned some unfortunate news that really, really frustrated all three of us, if true, about a board member's, family members, um,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Oh,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

sort of threats and crap.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

I, I don't know what kind of threats or anything like that, but I, I, a couple people, uh, that have made mention that, you know, they're, they're getting chewed out. They're as they should. If the person, they really shouldn't, they should be having a civil conversation. And if you feel like I guess that, that you're getting talked down to, then maybe you get fired up and chew'em out. But it, it was commented that there was some, maybe some stuff said to some of their families, I don't know if it was their kids or their wife or what, but guys leave their families out of it. I mean, come on,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

It

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

if you have a Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Absolutely.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Corbin, you were gonna say something a minute ago.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I can't exactly remember what I was gonna say, but there is one more point that I wanted to make. Um, Vince, you just told everyone to calm down and, um, I don't know if what I'm about to say is gonna really help that situation, but if you're, if you're standing on the edge, you might just jump, but, um, brace yourselves because this isn't going away. Brace yourselves. Everything that they're saying they're gonna do, they're gonna do. Um, we're not talking'em off the ledge. Nothing's changing. You can complain all you want to. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what we say. It doesn't matter what we do. The decisions made, sorry.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

about my why on the next one. We were supposed to talk about it here. Why we do this, why we're even on these podcasts, because we don't wanna be famous. We don't want to be your mouthpiece. we just like the diversity of our thought in our regions, and we can share some things that hopefully aren't always said in the mainstream by people. And, um, but go ahead and reach out to us. Keep reaching out to us. I really, I take a lot of, um, joy in the fact that many people felt comfortable to gimme a call and say, what do you think about this? What do you think are, or, you know, and, and I felt a great responsibility to make sure to let those people kind of talk it out. And not take sides and tell them what I know and then they would ultimately get to, yeah, but I trust you. What do you think of this? And um, it's, it's a delicate line to walk because I know you all have a lot of money and time and family invested in all these things. And we wanna make sure that it still has value for people. And I think it does. She's still the same Angus cow. Uh,

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Absolutely.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

and for anybody that thinks that this EPD thing, we need to keep pressing it when it comes to, to members, that cow that's in the bottom 5% growth or dollar am or dollar B or dollar meth, she's Angus too. And when you talk about the diversity of challenges we're going to face in this world in the next 20 years, don't you guys think we're gonna need all the Angus genes available? We don't need to keep narrowing this deal up to fewer and fewer impactful populations of cattle. We need'em all. We need, we need some of these guys that don't breed to any AI cires from all over the country. Um, we need some people that get branded as, as kind of out there loonies and people who, who are right on the cutting edge. We need all of those genetics, and more importantly, we need all of those breeders to stay relevant. And I hope, I really, really hope this board takes some time and a position of humility to really put that at the center of their thought process as, as opposed to what can we do to help them, like get to know'em.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Well, is that all we got?

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

That's all I got.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

Yeah. I hope, hopefully, uh, we just solved all the world's problems.

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

That's awesome.

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

I don't think we,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

We didn't quite get to two hours,

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

think we've,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

there, so we

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

yeah,

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

off this deal, didn't we? Vince

vince_3_06-12-2025_175131:

Tumor's out

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

tumor's

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

He's done.

joe_1_06-12-2025_155049:

to someone

korbin-5000_1_06-12-2025_175056:

He's done. Take it away, bloomer.

We will see you next time around the shoot.