Finding Your Sweet Spot

In this episode, the hosts discuss the challenges of running a cattle operation, and the complexities of herd management, including optimal herd size and the use of cooperative herds and embryo programs. They also touch on the importance of selecting the right delegates and the impact of over-management in small herds.

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Welcome to Round the Shoot. Welcome to the round the shoot. Is everybody's belly full? No, no, no. I did get a slim jam a minute ago at the store in a Gatorade. Is it not too hot to eat right now? It's kinda hot outside. You don't feel like eating. This is so, it's not, this is not a thing for Vince. What happened? What happened to the brisket sandwich or primary rib sandwich? This is what I want to know. So. This place, even before it was the bistro has never had air. And I told him, I said, when it gets hot people, I'm out. People ain't, I'm out. People ain't gonna come in here to eat. And when I say people, I mean this big sucker. How big of a, how big of an area is this? It's like, um. I don't know, maybe 3000 square feet. Have you guys seen these 2,525 houses? Have you guys seen these split units? Dude, they're not, but he, but he rents it and the guy won't do nothing. It's like $150 at Lowe's. I'm, you can put one in the window. I'm te there's not, it's not like that. He's got There's no window. There's no windows. There's no window. No, but it's huge. It's a bistro though. It's a bistro. It's huge. Windows. The bistro. Anyway, I, I feel like, okay. Can we just say that this place is called the Bistro? I feel like that's not the correct name. No, it's very nice. It just don't have hair or he, he still makes it sound like, um. What's like a cliquey word? Like chicky metropolitan. Yeah. Makes it sound like it's so within civilization, but my mental image of this non-air conditioned place. It is. What's it feel like outside? Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Does it feel like one 10 out there today? Yes. They dont have air condition with 150% humidity, so Whoa. Also, he don't have heat, but he puts in space heaters. So you walk in there and you smell, smell kerosene. That's not fire. Why can't we just put an ice block on each table? I don't know, an ice block and a little Kemu fan. He's a a good guy. He's a good guy, and the sucker can make some food. But golly, that's I if I'm out and it's a hundred degrees and I'm sweating when I, today, when we go to lunch, where y'all want to go, I. I don't care. As long as I got air conditioning and cold drinks. That's all I, that's all I care. So you went to the gas station jabs and had a slim gym. Went to jabs skin. Oh, what's that? No, no, no. The Japanese Mexican joint. Oh, jabs Akin Jabs odd. Is that really what it's called? No, that's what we call it. It's Japanese slash Mexican. Oh. J. Wow. That is incredible. So, I mean, this guy has a restaurant and it's open, what, six days a year? cause that's when it's not humid and it's not cold. I feel bad for him like. You feel bad for a guy that won't splurge and put an air conditioner in when it's 110? I kind of feel bad for him, but actually how many do you not thi What about like how many employees does he have? That's like abuse, isn't it? Oh yeah. He's probably got six people. And they probably can't keep. And the poor waitresses. The poor waitresses ain't making no tips because nobody's coming to eat there when it's a thousand degrees. The bistro, you know who goes, you know who goes, you know the old people that keep their houses 80 degrees, like they're all like my wife. Yeah. Like Abby, like it's 85 in the house, it's 84 outside. Sure. You can hang meat in this place in the wintertime. Shut up. Yeah. No, we're gonna save $35. You can hang meat in my bedroom year round. When we go to bed at night, it's set on 59 61. Well, we don't have that 59 61 in the summertime money. I'll tell you that right now. I don't keep it. That is, lemme tell you something. I'll spend my, I'll spend my last penny for my air conditioning bill if I have to. Listen, I know for a fact. I know for a fact that last winter when it was 59 and 61 degrees, Joe was wearing long handles. Okay? Like there's no way Joe could survive in those conditions. In the winter, we bump it up to 63. Butt hole cold. That is, that is, I love it. I love it. I sleep so good. It's, it's like, man, I'd really like to hang on to these Isabel's and see what I got, but I gotta keep that 59 61 in the summertime we gonna Isabel somebody, somebody said, somebody said, uh, did you see where they said you, you gotta keep your air conditioning on like 65 to cut down. And I was like, Uhhuh. 65 is also very, I mean, 75, sorry, 75. They want you to put it on 81 or two. I'm like, that is stupid. I'm like, do what? I ain't putting it on. I'm pretty sure that's about where we're at here in the state of putting it on those 75 ho. Yeah, well tell it scarcity. They tell us to do that, but yeah, they tell us to do that. And you know what, if they get onto me, I'm gonna be like, did I pay my bill? Right? Yes sir. Okay, then don't worry about it. Am I up there complaining about my bill? No, sir. Okay, then don't worry about it. No. Meanwhile, meanwhile, Vince has got holes in his shirt because he's paying for air conditioning instead of buying clothing. Wow. I don't have any holes in this one. I am making it a V-neck though somehow. I don't know. I don't know how that's working. Yeah, you're tucking it in too tight. Pulling down, I'm it down or is it possible his belly too big for the, is dragging it down? No belly, just dragging it down. Is it possible there was some sort of, some sort of t-shirt carnage in the calf getting its head stuck through the panel today? Yeah. Let's talk about that Poor calf. I'm over here. I'm over on the same side as the calf. Head and the guys are running around to my side of the shooting. I'm looking at him like, what? What's going on? There's like cap stuck and I look and I'm like. I don't see anything. Well, there was a table, there was a table. The, the trans ova little rack that hangs on the chute that they put all their stuff on was kind of blocking the, the cats head. So I couldn't see it. I'm like, everything looks fine from where I'm at. So I bought my have yoga, you got I my head around and I'm like, oh, oh, there's a cat stuck. How does that happen? I don't know. Never had that happen. And what is it? Is it, is there any like, it probably can't happen again because that panel's probably bent, didn't it? Nope. That's a heavy panel. And Nate, Nate's like, I'm going to the shop. I'll go get the saws all, and I'm like, okay, no you're not. No, he went, but we, me, me and Blake were messing with it and we're like, man, I just don't know. So I said, the only thing I know is he is hurting. If I unpin this panel and we put the bar's vertical, then he's up and maybe we can mess with it instead of him being twisted and upside down. If he would've just laid down, I think we could've got it, but he wouldn't given it up. So we pulled one panel out that was behind him, and then I unpinned that one. I had to go put, we had to take a break for a second, put bug up because he was going right where she was tied up and she was no, no way she was gonna get away from him. So we locked her up in the, in the room and, uh, unpinned him. And he wreaked havoc, but, uh, he got his breath back to him. We were so, which reminds me what, back from the old podcast days, has your neighbor ever retrieved the chunk of panel? No. He went, he went to the stockyard with that on. No he didn't. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. What do they just guess the weight of that thing and take it off the weight of the animal and they run 'em across the scales. I don't know. They could put that on a bathroom scale probably Corbin, if it's certified. Unbelievable. I don't know, but I, I know that, uh, the guy, somebody at the stockyard said it came through there with it on there. I guess they just grind it up with the meat too, and they, did you see us jumping up and down on that stupid thing? It was, you know what I saw? What I saw was I was like, there's some urgency. The calf wasn't really flipping out, like he was pretty calm, but I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Somebody's filming this. Exactly. Like, who is filming this? We missed. We missed all the best stuff. And I was like. Gobble record this. Why is nobody recording this? So, yeah, we had enough people, me and Blake had it handled. Gobble just needed to be filming. Oh man. Oh my goodness. That is something. So, so, Joe, are you like me? Like, they seemed really calm for the situation. Uh, yeah. There's no point. I feel like, what are we, I mean, I, I'm just saying if it would, if that would've happened here, why are we getting worked up? Well, I wouldn't have been worked up. I just would've been like, I would've been, uh, urgently barking orders, engaged urgently orders. There would've been, whoever would've been there helping me would've known what they needed to do. But your barn's probably air conditioned. No. So there was no urgency. We had fans, nowhere got fans. Listen. Yeah, they probably, it's 59 under that. It's 59. 59, 61. Underneath that barn. There ain't no hurry. Yeah. Once my shirt gets drenched in sweat, it's 59 61. You know what that's from? It's, it's a V-neck from wiping your face. I don't wipe my face. Boy, that's, I do hang my glasses right there. Surely they're not. That's those, those could be heavy glasses. No, they, they're pretty thick rimmed. Listen, did you see us bouncing up and down on that panel? Yeah. No, you didn't see the end of it? No, because I haven't checked Snapchat all day. The video. I sent the video. Oh, well I haven't kept up on the group chat 'cause I got about four group chats. So we're Blake's just, we're wearing it out. What? I'm offended that, that we're group chat four on Joe's list. Yeah, I know. Uh, no, I haven't replied to them either. Look, me and Blake were bouncing up down on this panel to try to slide and it was hung his bowl. And I was like, Hey, hang on Blake, hang on. We gotta get let, get off a minute and lemme see if I can finagle the panel around a little bit. Why is everything going? You're good. Finagle the panel around a little bit. Now you're not. And, uh. Get, um, get the, I feel like you got vapor lock or you're chasing, are you chasing a big insect round? No. What are doing? I plugged, I plugged the stupid thing in, but I didn't plug it into the wall. Oh. Um, anyway, we shimmied it off and got off his pole and bounced up and down on it more and got it off of him. He's okay. He was not happy about going back through the shoot again. But he's okay. He's vaccinated. Oh, you made him go back to the shoot again? We had to vaccinate him. Oh, that. Oh, it'll be effective, I'm sure. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. But yeah, at least you didn't get him excited before you ran him through. Um, he probably didn't lose any weight or anything. Hey, did you use Don't matter. I weight. I wasn't, I didn't wean 'em. These are pre-weaning. Oh, okay. Hey, uh, we didn't talk about that. I think our most popular episode was weaning wisdom, isn't it? I don't know. It's one of our more popular and we did not talk about therapies or anything like that. So I was curious, are you using that still? I'm not. I used it once. It didn't work. So I used the stuff my buddy used, um, in selling now called secure Cattle. Did I tell you about this? Yeah, but we, I'm gonna have you, we, I'm gonna have you try some, we, we gotta try some before we talk about it, but it was bad. It was awesome for me. Well, I'm gonna be weaning soon, so. To try. Okay. I'll see what we can do. I'll see what we can do because I don't want to give a shout out on here unless you tested the products, but I will tell it's the same. But all you have to do is squirt it on his neck where you give the vaccine so you don't have to rub it under his eyelid. You don't have to. What? Oh, maybe I did it wrong. I wasn't rub it under his eyelids. I don't have to said to put it on a pole and on the nose. It was a gigantic pain. I don't know what I've do. The hokey pokey. I dunno what I've done to not need these additives. I don't know what I've done, but it's the crux and the 9:00 PM weaning. It's just being, being very Are you fenceline weaning it though? Didn't you say you fenceline wean 'em all kinds of ways? I did. Um, so I weaned some like a month ago and they were two, their moms were two miles away and, um, I locked them up in the pins. Well, I opened up and it's probably a two or three acre area and normally it was kind of hot, so I want 'em to have as much room as they could have. I opened it up where they could graze around and they could kind of move around that pin more than normal. 'cause I knew, I knew we were losing weight. I mean, I knew it was gonna be, let's just get these weaned and then we'll worry about the weight that they're losing. I mean, I'd rather 'em be pinned up in close quarters. But they had more area than normal. Well, they opened the gate and I, I got up the next morning and those, those things were going back. I mean, they were literally almost back to their mom's two miles away. And I trailer trailered 'em up here at Ham. So, um. I, I guess that's not really related to the story, but I thought it was kind of funny. I thought it was kind of funny and that, that does kind of remind me that, uh, I'm gonna try to stay out of the cross hairs this week. I know I kind of got off on some, uh, some tangents last episode we recorded, so maybe I'll try to stay on topic this week. No, wanky, dinks. No KY dinks, no pineapple on pizza. No. What, what's the more, I, I had, I had pineapple in my, from the bistro, chicken, cheese, and rice Today. What? From the, from the Mexican joint. You never had chicken, cheese and rice? Not with pineapple in it. What's wrong with that? I also had peppers and onions in it. Pineapple. Oh man. You don't know what you're missing, dude. You're, uh. Your Mexicans aren't like our Mexicans. We don't. What do you mean? Like you tell 'em you want freaking pineapple and they chop it up and throw it in there. They put, they're putting pineapple in in Mexican food. Joe, I. I missed that 'cause I was trying to make a satirical commercial. We're gonna have to skip that because I'm totally distracted. I, you could do the satirical commercial about pineapple and Mexican fish. So do you just like, or pineapple pizza. So you get a, like, I just like you get a fork full and you like, you get a little rice on your fork too to go with your freaking pineapple and then there's some cilantro. Dude, that is disgusting. You don't know what you're missing. Disgusting. No, it's not. It's a, it's Hawaiian Mexican food is what it's I think whatever you called, I think. Whatever you called that Hawaiian Mexican feud. Yeah, whatever you called that. I think that's actually a gas station. That's what it is. It's a gas station. Hey, you know it's a, it's a bistro. Y'all see that? Can y'all see where I knocked? The hell outta my head. Two days ago. You skied it, you scan it, it You should wear a, you should wear a hat. You can't wear a hat. All right. I'm gonna keep looking for a commercial. You guys lead into the first of the two topics, and then we'll talk about the big topic. Corbin, talk about delegates. Oh my God, what's the first topic? Delegates. Delegates. I guess I didn't know Joe's got so many topics. We gotta move along. We gotta move along here. I didn't know what the topics were. I, I didn't know we had three topics. Well, the first one is delegates and. That, that I'm scared to talk about delegates with Vince in the room. I'm telling you he's been, listen, he's been biting my hat off for the past weeks. Be nice. Geez. Look, I'm just, I'm just fed up with all this crap and it's not gonna end until probably January or February just because the convention comes and goes, don't mean all this crap's gonna end. But all the people complaining, all of this and all of that, I mean, dude, I got better stuff to do than sit here and complain about it. At some point, are we gonna have to limit our exposure to the negativity? I mean, because I'm just saying, so here's the deal. So I'm a, I don't know. I'm on the list. I, I don't know if I'm okay to vote for or not. I didn't get that, that list, but. I'm on the delegate list. Dollar, the, what is it? I didn't get the dollar. Lots of meth. I didn't get the lots of meth, and I, I'm sure I'm on there. I don't care. Anyway, um, the, I, I do think it is important for the right people to become delegates. The thing that is concerning to me is. If we don't have anybody good to vote for, then what good is it that we're gonna be delegates? But as Joe pointed out to me earlier, I was unaware that we could vote somebody from the floor. So possibly we could nominate somebody from the floor and get voted in. Th the whole system is odd. The whole system is, is odd. It, we need to do away with it. We need to just do voting, online voting. So, um, so while Vince is fed up with it and weary of it lasting on into January, I actually feel quite the opposite in a lot of ways. I mean, of course the negativity does start to drag you down, but at the same time. Um, I guess I kind of invigorates me knowing that there's as many people that care as there are, because prior to this whole deal, wondered if, wondered if we were talking to ourselves a little bit when we, when we cared about certain issues with AAA and with, with things that were going on. And now we know, like, like we've hit a tipping point, we've hit a breaking point and there's some changes that need to be made and there's. Some things that are gonna be said and some feelings are gonna get hurt, and that's okay. Um, I'm glad, I'm happy that this is happening. Um, and, and maybe, maybe the thing that makes me the most excited is the amount of younger breeders, younger cattlemen and women that are taking the initiative to, um, well 'cause, 'cause as we all know, we're the type of people that, that kinda like to be left alone. We like to do our job and, and just. Not have to mess with people, but the uh, the amount of people that are coming out saying, okay, this is enough. Let's, let's, let's become delegates and let's make a difference. It, I like to see it. I, I'm happy. Well, yeah. I think it's fantastic. Sorry, I was struggling with mute. I think it's fantastic. I think it's fantastic that people are engaged and it's unfortunate that it took this to get to it, but you know, it's, it's an opportunity. And I actually think, um, I was sharing this with some people earlier. I, I do think that there's an opportunity for some current board members to really think about what's going on right now with all the write-ins all over social media and all this, you know, kind of drumming up support from different people. I think really the call to action should be, let's make sure that the passionate people that want to talk are the ones on the delegate floor and the ones who have something to add. Because I think that there has been enough member apathy or there has been enough member complacency, whatever the two you want to call it, where people haven't gotten involved. Um, you know, I told you guys that I was not a candidate this year because the office used to always write in my name. Because if I ever went to convention, then I had the opportunity to be a delegate, and usually I had enough votes to be an alternate or something. Well, this year, now that Abby and I own it, I was like, man, I'm not gonna write for my, I'm not gonna nominate myself. I just don't feel comfortable with that, and I'm not at all saying anything to the people who do that. I understand why you do and shame on me for being behind the eight ball now and having to text a bunch of people and say, Hey, if you think that I'd be a good candidate, this is what I would do. But I just think, um, there's gotta be a better way. There has to be a better way. There's too many layers in all of this that allow people space to say, this is a conspiracy to keep the, the ruling class in charge and all that. Well, if it's not, then let's fix it. Or the reality is it's showing that it is. The real, the reality is, is that the people that have a gripe for, for their being. Certain entities that are overrepresented it. The gripe is real. I mean, it's, it's, it is. It's obvious. Absolutely. It's obvious. You go look at that delegate list, and there's way too many ties to one another on those delegate lists. It's embarrassing. You know, there's a solution I've been opening up though Corbin, um, that Vince actually came up with and, and then I pirated on from there. One of the solutions is stripping away some of the prestige of being a board member. I think, um, absolutely some of the responsibility, like for me, I, I've said to you guys, I could not be a board member with its current requirements 'cause I feel like I don't have enough people at home to do the work. Nobody does. Nobody does. The people that would make awesome board members. Do not have time to do it. So this is a modified solution from Vince Santini. I'll put words in your mouth, but let's workshop this a little. Um, you had said something about why don't they have a lot of those meetings on Zoom, and why don't we have a thank you for your service for the year as part of a thanks for that. We're gonna have a mid-year meeting where we fly all the board together to a Kansas City or a St. Joseph, Missouri, because we have a building there and you have the annual meeting. So we fly everybody together twice a year. All the other meetings be done on Zoom. You know, another one I'm gonna push for, regardless of how I'm involved or not board members. Not board members for everyone, why can I not type in my member code 1 0 6 2 7 2 1, my password, log in and there's an active board meeting. Go on. I should be able to see it, right? Yes. Agree. Absolutely. I agree. Should I not? Yes, agree. That's why I just raised my hand. Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. Why don't we, I don't. Why can't we all, why is that rocket science be in the room? We don't have to, we don't have to be able to talk. We don't have to say anything. Well, the thing is, is why can't we be privy? Forget being in the room. They don't even print the minutes. They don't even print the minutes. Do you think they're gonna let you in the room? Because they don't even want nobody to know what they said. So that makes me really nervous that that has to be so good. Vince, for the people, I, I won't defend board members, but I will say one of the perspectives they would share is that's not how it goes. Well, board members, if you're listening, that's how it's interpreted. Yeah, do something different. How's it working out for you? Do something different. What do you mean by that's not how it goes? Are you enjoying the heat under your collar? Uh, no, you're not. So let's, let's be more transparent. Let's make an effort here. What do you mean, Joe? By that's not how it goes. No, I'm saying that maybe those folks would say that's not how it goes. Oh. You know, I'm not saying if it does or it doesn't, but I am saying that there haven't been efforts to disprove that. That's how it goes. Saying that's what I was saying. Gonna say this isn't how it goes. It goes that way until you prove us differently by showing us. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, I think those are fair criticism. This is just my personal opinion. I know there's a lot of, um, people saying there's, we can't make a difference, but I tend to disagree. There's a come up, there's a comeuppance. In the air. I would agree. Things are about to change. Things are about to change. About the thing about it is, the thing about it is, do you remember when you went on the poop cruise, Corbin? I don't remember. I'm sorry. You, you were on the poop cruise, but before it was the poop cruise. I was. I was, no, it was after and after. Before and after. It was, it was the poop crew. There just was no poop on it. So when that boat's going. It takes. It is not gonna turn on a dime. It takes a while to get it to turn around. It does. Okay. It does. So it's gonna take a little bit to get this ship turned around. I mean, if I do, especially given, given that there are certain. What would you say? What do you call conductors? What do you call the people driving the ship? Captains, I call it the people that are saying, get the band to go out on the top and just keep playing. Do, yeah. You've got, you've got active captains that are pulling one way and then you've got members that are jerking on the. Or the, uh, the steering wheel trying to pull it back the other way. So, yeah, no, it's not gonna be quick because there's certain people, uh, certain contingency that thinks there's no problem. This is what it's supposed to happen. There, there, there are a couple of people cer there, there's a few people that need to be thrown overboard. And then it's also, uh, and I, I hate to even go, but the, the narrative that says. You might as well just get used to it and And get on board. No, that's not right. Hell no, that's not right. Hell no. They're like, Hey, I don't like it either, but we might as well get on board. And why would you do that if you don't like what's going on? That's right. Why would you just go along to get along? Just so you can go sell? Do you guys know just so you can go sell your Siemens what the deal is? Do you know why this is not the super large breeder association? I don't know what that means. I thought we were super large. That's, that's, that's where we're headed, right? Is more and more the bigger influence people. Oh, you mean like the, and less of the small, but do you know why the small, the small breeders have all the power in a breed association, they provide most of the value because that's where all these bulls are compared against all these other bulls. And it builds the strength of the database because there's a lot of small people who turn in honest and accurate data and they're using a variety of things. Yeah, so it frustrates me because those people are the ones that are kind of really up well. They're really, really upset right now and justifiably so. They don't really squeak that loud. They don't really ask for that much. I actually don't think that a lot of these members are asking for much. I think to Vince's point about the boat, and it takes a long way to turn around, a different way to think about it is the closer and closer you get to that iceberg before making the choice to change. The harder it's gonna hurt when you hit it. Yeah. Yeah. And if, and I watched a documentary on that one time, if they'd had started the Titanic, if they'd have kept it going full speed and they would've turned it while it was going full speed, it would've clipped a small part of it and damaged the boat, but it wouldn't have destroyed it. And I think they tried to slow it down too much. They tried to slow it down too much. And I think that there's a real opportunity here to look that elephant in the eye and say. We've got a major communication issue, uh, since we last recorded. I've talked to a board member, had a wonderful conversation actually, and was able to share a lot of those thoughts. They seem very, very receptive and, um, I'm gonna give them the grace and time to act. I hope that they act swiftly, haven't seen anything yet, but I hope they act swiftly. Um, so beyond that, you guys have anything more on delegates? No. Vote for delegates. Wanna talk about, try to make, try to make good decisions of the P. Call 'em. Call the people on the list that you're voting for and ask them what, whatever it is that you want to ask them to see where they stand or or what their thoughts are. And then vote. Try to try to put a little thought into it. That'd be my only recommendation on a delegate. And then if you get to be a delegate, if you're a listener and you are afforded the privilege of being a delegate, don't be scared of your independent thought. Correct. That's whole. You had your observations the first time I went. I was, were you and I was, I just kind of did what everybody else did. I think the, uh, I think the fear's out though. I, I think we're good. I don't think there's gonna be any fear there. Well, I'll tell you though, Corbin, you look at some of these delegate lists and the people who are on there are people that filled in their own name. And some of the people I have to vote for, I'm, I'm pretty active in California, don't even know 'em. There's a lot in Tennessee. I don't know. Yeah, for sure. And the, the sad thing is Tennessee gets 13 uh, delegates. Wow. And I don't, I don't think there's enough on there. We have 28 on our list. 28. We, we have, yeah, but how many? We have 25 or 23. We get 14. We have 23 or 25. Oh, there's definitely, I definitely don't think there's 14 worthy, but I, maybe there are. I don't think there's 14 worthy Well, there's, there's a lot on ours that probably not gonna get voted for, but they'll make it because we have 13 slots. And they'll make it because they're all voting for each other. That's the freaking problem. Probably. Yeah. So, or it's, it's very similar to the ticket On a state election, you vote for the governor, you don't think about insurance commissioner, you don't think about Attorney General. And guess what, you look around one day and Kamala Harris is your attorney general. I've lived that. You know, like you have an insurance commissioner who has made some major issues in California, people can't get their homes insured. Like those things matter. But on the ticket you're like, well. It's Newsom or it's this Congress person and that's about it. Well, that's kind of where we're at with some of these delegates. I mean, it's, it should be okay to call up a delegate. It should be okay. It should be okay to fill in a ride in if you, if you think it's worthy. But I also think, um, I. I'm hopeful that whoever gets in, um, I'm still hopeful the association could come out and say something to support the people that want something different, uh, to make sure they could hear a voice. But if not on the House of Delegates floor, it would be nice to see some sort of thing said where we change the way in which people are heard. The, uh, yeah, I agree. The silence. The silence is, it's def, it's, it's definitely loud. The silence is definitely loud. It's, it's frustrating to say the least, and I don't want to talk about that Corbin, because I'll take us down a road. That'll be way too distracted. We have an exciting topic today. Yes. Let's get onto it. I think it's a good topic, isn't it? Is this the topic or the other? Like this is topic two or topic three. Which one are we talking about? This is the meat of our episode. The meat. The meat, the meat. The meat. I thought, I thought we only had one meat, but you said a minute ago we had three topics. So, so is this, is this where we talk about how Vince's 174 cows is the perfect number of cows to run? Is that Yes. No, but I, I will say this, everybody has their sweet spot where you only have so many head that you can run comfortably, profitably. And with a whole lot less headache. Like in other words, let's say 200 is my number, but if I get up to two 50 or you think that's really good, but it just causes more problems, it doesn't flow well. I run outta space, there's a lot more inputs. But if I dropped it back to 200 or 2 25, I don't have that headache. Right. And a lot of people. It takes a little while to figure out that sweet spot, that number. Yeah. Yeah. Haven't you found, though, that no matter what. As long as you have a little bit more feed than you do cows. It seems like your problems go down. Yeah, but we're gonna know soon. We're gonna know which one of our cows are way more efficient than others. Stop. Stop it. Stop. Oh my God. Gosh. I'm gonna, Hey Vince, how's the construction going on your methane chamber, by the way? Are you putting that next to the chute where the calf was? Or you just, I'm actually gonna put it outside. I'm gonna put it in the cell. Facility, you know those, um, so every sale animal can go get, you're on the list. You're on the list. Okay. Anyway, go ahead. No, no. We gotta correct this because Miss Amy's gonna freak out though. Vince does not have a meth. I'm not getting methane chamber. Methane chamber. My neighbors are excited though because they, they just heard meth. They just heard math. Yeah. They start lining up, you know, they drive their school bus out to see we're here for the math boys. They're looking for that, uh, they're looking for that porch light that's on at night, like driving down the road looking for a, the red, the red porch light. Yeah. So our, our topic for today though is when we came up with a long time ago, we did just in our text group, is. What would your operation look like if you had a thousand cows? What would your operation look like if you had a hundred cows? What would be, what would your operation look like if you had 25? And basically it was to contrast the size and scope? And Vince, you kind of took us down a different road and then you turn on mute. But I kind of like opening up this, finding your sweet spot of what you can run and what you can handle. Maybe talk about the amount of people you have. The amount of responsibility and diversification you have a little bit, and how many cows you guys could run if you wanted to be, you know, and you don't have to get into your number of cows. It's very private for cow guys, but, but, um, maybe get into generalities of how you run a little less than you could so you aren't running as hard or how you found that sweet spot. I, I don't know that I'm quite at the sweet spot. I think I know where it is. And we're getting there. But you know, with us row cropping as well, we could run a lot more cows. We would just have to take the row crop out, which at the moment is not as quite as profitable as it usually is. But, um. I really like the balance that row cropping and cows strike, because generally when cows are up, crops are down and when crop Yeah. The diversification for you guys Yes. Is really important. It, it is very important. And when crops are up, cows are usually a little down so they kinda help each other out when, when things get soft. So I think we've gotta keep both. And honestly, if I cropped. Man, I wouldn't have to do anything all winter. But the good part about the way all that flows is when we're busy with cows, we're done with crops. Mm-hmm. It kind of works hand in hand. When we're busy with crops, we're kind of not doing anything with cows. So it does, except for today. It does. And how many, how many people you, you support four people, right? Me, me and Blake and Nate. And, uh, John. And John. So. That's the hard part is if you only had one of the two, you'd have to lay off those people for six months and good luck getting Oh yeah. People back. Good luck getting anybody of any aptitude that could help you or proficient at the job. Right, right, right. It needs to be a 12 month thing. Right. And that's all, honestly, that's honestly one of the problems I kind of have. Is like, I need a ranch hand, but I don't need a ranch hand in the summertime. Right, right. I don't, I don't, I would be paying someone to stand around right now. You wouldn't, you don't have any fences to fix or mowing and weighting the need done. I try to do that stuff. Okay. I, it's harder, it's harder for me right now with everything that's going on with our family and stuff, but generally I can get a lot of that stuff done on my own. Um. Yeah, there's projects that that get left in the dark, but I mean, do I really wanna pay someone? Right. 30 grand. That's what you gotta weigh out. That's what you gotta weigh out. Like is that, is that. Fence that needs fixed worth 30 grand. And then having to buy all the parts in labor. So right now I'm not having to pay for all the parts to fix it either. I'm not having to, 'cause I don't have an employee to do it. So yeah, there's some of that stuff that, that gets put off that needs to be done. Um, and what'll end up happening, which, which is something that I have to do, is I have to hire some stuff done. It just is what it is for, for special projects and things. So, um, so Corman, do you feel like you're in your sweet spot or you should expand or you should reduce numbers? Well, through the drought and everything I have reduced, I would, one of the things that I would, if, if I wasn't running registered cows and I just had to maintain a commercial herd, which I do, I run these cows like commercial cows, but with the bulls, you've gotta run 'em through the chute so many more times, they've gotta take up pasture to where you're feeding your bulls and you're keeping 'em longer. Um, but if I was running commercial cows. I think I could spread out and run a, I could run a good chunk of cows by myself. I really think I could. And, and with them only having to run 'em through the chute two or three times a year, um, special times, you know, hiring some, some day work helps. That's what I was gonna ask, is day work around you? Easy to find. Hmm. Yeah. I, i is is that, do you want the help around your cows? Sometimes though? Is, is the. That's the thing. So for me, Vince, to answer that question, I, you didn't ask me, but I'll chime in. Well, he was talking Well I know, that's why I asked him. Did I interrupt you, Corbin? No, no, no. I'm saying he was talking about it. That's why I asked him. Yeah. So it would be easier for me to find day work help if I was treating. I need to be careful 'cause I run these cows like commercials. But there is nobody that I know this commercial that would gather a set of cows when it's raining to put cedars in them. Exactly, and, and you are not going to call and get some day work, help a whole bunch of buckaroos out here to gather in the rain to put cedars and cows. They're gonna be like, what? Uh, no. But if I had commercial cows and I just had to run in bigger paddocks and mo, I mean, absolutely. I could get day work twice a year. We could ship 'em, it would be easier. Um, in some ways, a lot more, a lot less headaches. Um, and I don't know that we'd be making a whole lot less money. To be honest with you, I think right now I think it would be kind of a push now, um, when the market turns the other way, that's when you see the difference in these value added products that have in purebred cattle. I think, um, yeah, definitely. So I, I think that the big game changer for me here is we can run more cattle. We're starting to get more leases. We're starting to expand. We have a real big demand for what we sell. I'm gonna start folding into more bulls as my employees. Because the drag of Cedars, the drag of synchronization, the amount of cows, I mean, you turn a bull out for, for 30 days, he gets most of them. Uh, he gets a lot more than I do on a 21 day cycle with a cedar. I know that. And so when you're talking about pounds of beef off a landscape, I think we're gonna start relying on bull power a lot more here. It doesn't mean we're gonna go away from our, our AI and embryo endeavors, but um. Yeah, I don't know that we're at our sweet spot either, because it seems like whenever we get to that number, which I used to think it was about 300 cows for us. Well then we had a pasture lease that was a hundred cow deal and the lease was up. And we knew we were gonna have to compete hard for the lease, and so we competed for what we thought it was worth and didn't get it. Um, part of that, you know, in purchasing Brewing Ranch from itself, we had to use some cattle to buy down the, use their equity to buy down the cost of, of it. And I don't need to get too far into the details of our finances, but, um. Every time I feel like we have a stable number, a new lease pops up or we lose one or there's a new opportunity. And so it seems like you're always in this ebb and flow. And I'll tell you the other thing I noticed when we took some cattle, um, to Gardnerville Nevada one time at 160 cows up there, and we went and, uh, you know, it was on like 180 200 acres and, uh. I saw 'em in about 15 minutes and I was like, whoa, I just saw 160 cows in 15 minutes. What changes now? Split that up. Split that up amongst six or seven ranches down here that it takes me of unloading the four wheeler, loading the four wheeler, unloading all this crap. It take me. You know these people that have come on ranch tours this summer, which thank you to all the folks who have come out and visit us, and thank you for your patience. It is an all day grind to see cattle. So those little 10 head deals, little 12 head deals. Um, I fantasize over running a thousand cows, but I wouldn't want 'em on more than three ranches I don't think. Right. So Joe, not to change the subject 'cause we need to keep this subject going, but you just brought up the Bull Power Deal. Um. So do you AI one or two rounds or. Or what? No, I AI one round. I used to AI two rounds. Yep. But it's just too tight around our corrals and feeding cattle and stuff. So that doesn't mean Vince, that we're AIing all the cows. At the same time though, we try to keep 'em in bunches of 50 because that's kind of what Wyatt I can manage in our, we call it morning chores. I wanna be done with CalWork by 10 11 on. In the morning. Right. I don't wanna be doing it all day. I just didn't know if it meant you were gonna, when you said you were gonna run more bulls, if that meant maybe you, you were going to, instead of AI in two rounds, just AI one round and rely on the bulls more often. Um, it's, that's the only reason I ask that. No, if you're asking about the process there, Vince, I'm actually thinking about sorting up particularly first calf heifers and just sticking a bull straight out with them. That's what I was wondering. You wanna know how much stress that relieves if you can do that with, let's say you had, let's just say for you had 200 cows you wanted to breed, and 50 of those cows you did not have to breed. That's, that's a game changer. Yes. A game changer. And Corbin, I have this bull I've sent you guys before that I kept back from the 2021 calf crop. Love the calves. We're calving out the first daughters right now, so we'll know a little bit more about 'em. Um, mother was an 11-year-old cow when she left type of a deal here. Grandmother lasted till she was 12. I mean, outcross pedigree, it's all good. I'm going to mate him to a lot of cattle anyways. Yeah, so what if I just stopped and just turned him out with him? What about, what about this? Yes, a hundred percent. What about this ability we have where? Where I can go to Vince's place or I can go to Joe's place and say. I might not be able to afford your best bull, but I can afford a bull that's gonna change, that's gonna change my herd for the better, that I'll be excited about. And I can turn, buy that bull and turn him out on cows and not AI in front of them. Right? And, um, I still feel like I'm moving in a more positive direction. And we also act like AI and cows means that you're using a better bull than the cleanup bull you're using anyways, which in a lot of cases is not true. What if you're AIing them to the, your cleanup bull? Yeah. Or what is your, I think if you have the facilities, and usually that works for high confinement operations. Generally speaking now, Vince, I'm guessing in one of your pastures you're gonna have three cows. You wanna breed to legion and seven cows. You wanna breed to blue blood. And then this other set you wanna breed to Renno and this other set to fellow or whatever your mix of bulls are, and you can't really get 'em all into one pasture. So it doesn't all line up, right? But if you're somebody who's using big sets on these things and you could find 30 that fit to a legion or to a blue blood, like you know you have in your battery, right? Um. The bull himself and his genetic value in merit is probably more usable in your herd, and he solved you a problem. No cedars, no labor, no sickness of calves in mud, no sickness of calves in dust. Like all of those things are solving problems and I think we're gonna start doing a lot more of that here. That's actually, that's actually something I was thinking about because you start cutting. I mean, dude, if you start shaving. I don't know. What would that be? Like $30 a head? Oh yeah. No. Probably more, probably more like $50 a head. If you include labor, it's north of that prime. Well, your, your, your labor and plus you got all your, your AI stuff, your mm-hmm. Uh, sheaths. And even if it's your bull, it's three or four bucks a straw, right? Yeah. Um, yeah. So, and then you miss 'em. You know how many you're gonna miss. I've thought about it. I've thought about, look, I was gonna AI these to, to blue blood and ai, these a legion, and I thought about just kicking 'em out. So I think that the one hole is, is we'd have to keep a closer eye on 'em. We'd have to keep an eye and make sure that the bulls were, were servicing 'em. 'cause we aren't like a commercial deal. I mean, one RA ranch, excuse me, I turn out six or eight bulls. But on that first set, if you have a bull get hurt or you have a cow's riding and he's not aggressive, you need to have a little bit better eye on that. But think of the eye we place on how boring heat detection is where we sit and detect. And detect and detect. Yeah. And imagine heat detecting when there's a bull in there to do it for you. Exactly. That's exhausting. And you have to sit there and, and some of these bulls, they don't really breed cows. If you're there, they want you to, you know what I mean? You don't, A lot of bulls, they'll breed 'em from 11:00 PM to 3:00 AM and that's when they're gonna breed 'em because they don't, that's when it's cool or, or they don't want you to see 'em, or that's just how they are. I never saw pandemic breed the first cow, so I was concerned he wasn't breeding cows. This was. To last fall. So I had him, I had him in a small, because I, I was concerned about his libido. Sure. And I had him with a handful of cows. Preg checked those cows. He had every freaking one of 'em bred. And, and they were in a small paddock that we drive by like numerous times a day. Not one person saw any sign of heat. I was thinking there was something wrong with the cows because like, they weren't even riding each other. I would make the argument that. If you saw a lot more going on in a pasture, if you saw will breeding cows multiple times, if every day you went in there he was breeding a cow, I'd say there's a chance you have more problems there probably than if you don't see anything at all, especially if it's over a longer period. Like if I go by. I'm not saying this happened, but if I had go buy a pasture now and all my cows should be bred and there's one in heat, I'm gonna be like, oh man, I hope he is getting 'em bread. You know what I mean? Right. I, I don't, that's not really what I would see at this time. What if, what if you had 25 cows though? What if you had 25 cows to, to, to take care of? I mean, would you still raise bulls first? I guess that's a no, that's a, you wouldn't raise bulls. I wouldn't, not in Tennessee. Dude, it's so hard East of Mississippi. I don't think I would. You don't think you would, but But it would be, okay, so here's the thing. The question is, are we just starting and we get 25 cows, or are we in the ranches that we've had for last few years and going down to 25 cows? Because to me, that's gonna make a difference. I'd say. Um, well, we can play that scenario out, whichever one you think would be most. You see what I'm saying? I'd say, I'd say there's more people, there's more people that would benefit from a conversation that says, Hey, I've got 25 cows. What should I do? Well, let's say you got 25 cows. How do you tackle it? Oh man, that's hard because that's so tough of where you're at in your journey. Corbin. Yeah, and those guys are the economic engine that drive female sales, which are important to a lot of us too. You know, it's like. I mean, I don't make it public and everybody says I'm a hoarder. I sell a lot of females too, to a lot of guys that have less than 25 cows and they're gentle and they don't go be purebred cows or anything like that. And so, and then there's people who, you know, it's funny, when we put together this question, I remember what I was thinking. I. Uh, 25 versus a thousand and how it would be different. And on the 25, I was like, man, those would be the baddest witches you've ever seen in your life. See, that's what I'm thinking would be incredible. And then I would get, well, now I'm gonna start putting embryos in, in a cooperator herd, and then it's just gonna keep going. But do you know the problem? Here's the problem with running 25 cows. I'm just gonna put this out there. Over management would be a problem for me if I only had 25 cows. But here's the thing, Corbin, if you're going from what you are doing now to having 25, that is gonna be a problem. Same with me. Yes, but if you've never had cows and you're just gonna get 25 cows, that's not gonna be a problem because you don't know any better. You don't know any better. Right. That's why I asked the question you asked. So, so we asked the ai que would, would you AI if you had 25 cows? Yeah. I, I, I want to be honest, I think I. I think, I think you could even still have an embryo program. If you had 25 cows, you could do whatever you want. You could buy embryos from a guy and put a few embryos in. You can have one donor cow and you know, really hone in on a cow family. I don't know what sounds enticing to you guys having 25 commercial cows and just running them, running really good ones. That sounds great to me too. Yes, putting a good bull out. Now if you got 25 cows and you're gonna want to do a, I guess my. My thing is don't, don't jump right into an embryo. Prole. Get 25 cows. Get the protocols down by AI 'em. Get good at that. Get do a good job with those 25 cows. And then one day you say, you know what? This cow has done me such a good job. I would like more of her. Well then if you wanna flush 'em, flush 'em. I do, I do. I can't lie to you guys. I do like the idea if I had 25 cows of finding, um, some embryos out of a, so I'll, I'll just use this as an example. We bought some embryos out of, um, foundation, stickler Foundation, five fourteen's mother, and if I had 25 cows, that would be so awesome to go pluck something like that, something similar to that, something that's neat, something that's unique, and just be able to play with it. Just have that opportunity. Um, I, I think the opportunities are endless with 25 cows. Um, but even, even 50. Even 50. Even 50. You said you don't think you'd, I I'd still sell bulls. I, I think I would. I, I don't know. I don't know. I would try. Um, they would have to be, and, and I'm doing that now. I mean, like, I'm calling them hard. They would have to be really good. Like there's some that that are over in the bullpen right now that are gonna get cold because I thought I'd give 'em a little bit of a chance. But they're not, not, and they, they got get caught in a panel. No, no, no, no, no. But it was the bull thing. I don't know. But just because of where I'm at. Yeah, it's a different deal. It it, it's different. It's not where you're at and it's not where Joe's at. It's just different. Think where you're at. I thinking how quality oriented he would be. Like he's, I'm really wrestling in my head. This picture, Vince is painted of like. Going from where we're at down to 25 instead of like my kids who each have their one cow. Yes. And they're growing towards 25. And so I only have the world of view of where I'm going. And I'm thinking, man, those would be the baddest witches you've ever seen. And I'm gonna have some guy try to beat me up for a $2,700 bull. No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna steer every single one of 'em. That's what I'm saying. I'm not gonna deal with it now. Maybe some wisdom for the 25 guys. You are gonna need a pickup and trailer and some panels and a chute and everything, so it doesn't matter if you have low quality cows or high quality cows. The equip stuff, equipment, stuff's going to cost the same. And so listen, listen, whenever I worked an internship in Colorado, one thing that was burned into my brain was, if you're gonna run a cow, you might as well run a good one. So I'm gonna say if I have 25 cows, if I have 35 cows, if I have 50 cows, I think the end re the end result needs to be quality. Um, so whatever. Yeah. Don't you think that, that's to my point though, Corbin, about ranch size and things where generally producers, I. Where they get outta quality is when they have to fill leases or fill grass or feed resources. And then once you start growing into that, you start chipping away at the, at the drags. Yeah. Yeah. And then you have the opportunity to grow again. And you're keeping all the heifers you can again, and you're giving cows second chances 'cause you paid for the grass and you like, it just keeps kinda, but, but I think you're right. I mean, and, and we're not saying she has to be Angus or pure bred or No, just good. But she better probably not cause you many problems. What were you, what were you saying a minute ago? Did you get to where you were going? I don't remember now. Oh, okay. No, I don't remember. I mean, I was just saying that. Like it's different, like you said. I mean, Paxton and Meredith and Miles and Bennett are gonna want to keep all the heifers they can to keep growing. Right. Um, I do fantasize about the thousand cow deal though. If I had some small deals, I, I would have a completely different mating system though, and it's so fun for me to think about this because I would have, I would probably keep most of the heifers. Um, I would type 'em just like I do right now at Bruin. I'll tell you guys how the heifer selection happens. I get rid of the monsters and I get rid of the dinks and the middle cut of heifers is what we keep and we keep 'em all. There's not really a type selection other than if they're complete junkers. I say that I take care of the type selection when I selected the bull based on his mother. That's how I take care of the type selection. And so, I mean, obviously if there's something super Ill made, we get rid of her, but then I let fertility take its course. And then the ones that don't breed. That's the first cut. Those go to a grass fed customer of ours who finishes them out and about three or four months after they've been, so those heifers are gonna get preed when they're like 20 months old, probably 19, 20 months old. He's gonna finish 'em between 28 and 30 and some 'em for pile of money to grass fed, which is wonderful win-win situation. Then after we have those out. That's when we type 'em, that's when we start looking at is this utter exactly how we want it? Is this attitude exactly how we want it or don't? And those cattle go a certain way. Um, I would love to do that on that last scale, but then have a second cut of that, where the ones that we were keeping the replace, if we had a thousand cows, the nucleus that we kept our bulls out of would be all the older cows. So as cows hit 10 years, they would go into this other herd that was like the quote, purebred herd that was giving the replacements back to the bulk of the cow herd. And then they would also be the ones that the bulls were coming out of that would go back in. So you could use an outcross sire, you could AI, if you wanted, the AI program would probably still not be bigger than a hundred cows on a thousand cow deal. Um, and the AI program may be a Hereford bowl one year. He may be a, a charla bull one year. He may be a lot of different things. Um, he, he would probably be an Angus bull a lot of years because I know how to use those genes and they work well for us. But the thousand cow deal for me. As funny as it sounds, it would be a lot simpler. It's easy and on both end, both ends of that spectrum. It's funny because Vince started this conversation talking about the sweet spot. He's found this kind of sweet spot and you gotta look at your resources, which I thought was super insightful of Vince to share. But if I go down to 25 where I go up to a thousand, I make it simpler in both. I use like one bull ai. Yeah, like one. That's it. And, uh, and I know that sounds risky. If you have 25 and those are your only ones, and you put all those eggs in that basket, but I'll speak to you what my friend Herb Holle says Who, who, he has a thousand cows and he uses one sire for two years in a row. Before he changes, he's like, but on the next generation, all I have to do is fix that Bull's faults. I don't have to worry about that. Bull crossed with these, crossed with these, crossed with these and, and it starts to work itself out, which is a super fun and interesting approach. You know, um, this doesn't really have anything to do with scale, but I noticed the simpler our breeding program is, the less amount of bulls, the less amount of breaks I give these cows. Well, that's okay for us who sell Commercial Bulls is the largest portion of our income, but Vince does something different. So it's hard to have these big, simplified mating systems when you have a female sale in mind and you have a market that prefers a little bit of variety. Right. Vince? Right, right. It would be hard to try to, to make it. I have made it simpler the last couple of years. Um, I mean, dude, we were AIing two rounds. We were putting in two rounds of eggs and we were putting bulls out for 30 days. And it wasn't fair to my bulls because I didn't think that the bulls were getting a fair shot. Um, and now we just, it, we did it this way 'cause we got really busy. We did one round of ai. Kicked out bulls. Well, another reason we got good bulls, I mean, between legion and blue blood, those are two really good bulls that I'm AIing to as well. So that makes a huge difference. Um, but this, this being simpler is one round of AI and kicking the bulls out. I mean, my cows are getting a little more time with a bull, so if they need it. They have it and we're not sitting there messing around trying to get two more AI pregnancies and missing six head. You know, the bulls out there are just taking care of it. Um, isn't that the truth? I think some of the AI's so much better thinks we just keep cutting our herd in half. We do. Because you just go half on, half on half. So you need to make sure. Do you think, here's one for Shady Brook, like in your current size? Do you ever think you'd get to a spot where you were just et or cleanup bulls? That's what I try to do now. Is it, um, I mean, I do ai some cows, but at the end of the day it's like how many, how, how many times can one guy run a bunch of cows through, let's say we're doing a seven and seven protocol on an ai and we're trying to breed those at about the same time that we're trying to put in embryos. I've got one shoot and I've got two hands. Some of these cows just end up getting bred to a bowl that I'm really excited about. It's a, happens to be a cleanup bowl, but, um, the embryo program is something that you can't really put a, you can't really put a stop to it because it's helped move us forward a lot too. Um, I think running a good cleanup bull in a lot of scenarios is very helpful. So I do. I did, I quit AI and a lot of good cows that needed to be AIed to put eggs in them. Yeah. Uh, for a couple of years because my view of it, it might've been wrong, but my view of it was I've got these three or four donors that I really need to move forward with. And while this is a very good cow. If I AI her to the best bull that I could find, that calf is worth X. An embryo calf outta one of these donors is worth twice as much. So how do you AI that thing, you know? So I did that for a bit and then I got to a point where. I felt like I wasn't having enough, enough. Um, I, I, I guess, calves to move forward with. 'cause it was, everything was really condensed down, which is what I wanted. But I, I ended up pulling, going through and saying, okay, these cows here are good enough. They check the boxes. We're gonna AI those and quit putting eggs in them. And these over here are gonna continue to get eggs. And I mean, the biggest, the biggest thing that was my focus was feet. These cows over here had good feet. They're getting ai. These cows over here do not have good feet. They're getting an egg. Very few of them that had good feet. There was something else. Um. Uh, you know, maybe a, maybe a cold pedigree or something, a di less desirable pedigree. And I said, well, again, a embryo calf's gonna be worth a lot more than her natural calf. So I didn't, but something that I could do now is I could go back in and do that again with Blue blood and Legion. Yeah. And still have. And see, I used to put a round of eggs in and then watch the AI and then put a bull. It was crazy. It was so much work. Put that embryo. Put that embryo on. So you were, you were, and then you missed the ai half the time, not half, but so much ended up moving. You were doing, you were doing the work of having a thousand cows, but you didn't have them. Yes, it felt like it. So here's something else that. I, I was thinking about, you were talking about the, we had the conversation about the sweet spot. Your sweet spot is such a balance though for me because we, we raise all our own feed. I still have to have so much hay. We have to have so much silage. I have to have so much oats. I have to have so much corn because we raise the bulk of our feed. Would it, uh, Vince, would it benefit you to. Run more cows and not sell the feed. You do sell a little bit of feed. Right. Would it benefit you to not sell that feed? You sell and run cows or would that Uh, we sell some silage to neighbors. Um, I don't, I generally don't sell a lot of hay if I sell any at all. Um, so you would have to, if you were gonna run more cows, you'd have to put up more feed. That's what I'm saying. Uh, hay wise, hay wise, we'd have to pick up some more hay ground somewhere. What if you had, uh. Um, what if you had more ground, more acreage? I mean, can you run cows in the winter in Tennessee without feeding them? Not really. Mm. Maybe man, if you had it stockpiled, maybe if you're, but the, the, the thing about it is the. The way we do it, and I'm not saying I do it right, it's just the way we do it. We calve in a certain spot after they calve, we move them and having, they have to be close to the barn. We can AI 'em. So there is a field there that's a row crop field that we could put in grass. But I, I. I don't know because we're, I'm, I'm so set on keeping those cows where I cave them, they gotta have feed. I gotta feed 'em right there because it's, it's not a feedlot, but it, it ain't far from it just because that's where I need to keep 'em so I can control it. Um, the reality of the situation is if you were gonna get any bigger at all, I think you'd end up having to have some more help. Oh, I would have to have help. Yes. So, um, I don't know that I'd have to have a lot of help, but I would still have to have some help because, I mean, we can work the group. We have the people we have. I mean, just like today, I mean, we work cows, not a problem. Um, it would just be more days of working cows. Did you just say Not a problem. Not a problem. Yeah, no problem at all. But that one, get a panel stuck on Oh, like you never have a problem. Well, you, but wait. Yeah. But isn't there a product for that? Yeah, this is a perfect, hold on just a second. Is there a product? This is perfect. Howdy ranchers. Are you tired of boring, reliable livestock panels that keep your cattle and in the pasture where they belong? Well saddle up for the new revolutionary product. You never ask for freedom Fence. 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So why settle for durability, control, or peace of mind when you could have freedom? Fence the panel that believes cows should live their truth, freedom fence turning ranching into a scavenger hunt since 2025. Now with optional goat mode 21. Nothing fenced in ever again. Okay. Now are you done making fun of me now? Probably not. Probably not, but so, um, yeah, no problems today. Working cows. I mean, just the, the issue, the issue would be when we have other stuff to do. Exactly. We can't be working cows. Yeah. So, oh, did, so there's this guy that, um. Pretty prominent family that lives here by us and they're the Codys and everybody knows them and they, they hire every single, all their cow work done. They hire it all done, they pin 'em and then they hire a crew in to come work 'em, which I think is crazy 'cause that's like my favorite thing to do. Yeah, they may have found it was a pinch point. Yeah. So, so are we gonna talk about how Cooperative Hurts too now, or, no, I feel like we had 47 minutes of Awesome. And then after Vince's Lenovo crashed out, now we've been like, I. Paddling in the ocean. Okay. So it's like, I can't remember what I'm supposed to talk about. So. Well, I can't remember what I said either. There's some things I think I missed that I'm like, man, I don't know if we need to bring that back up or not or whatever. But go ahead. As if, as if I don't have enough tr trouble staying on topic and now I'm having to try to remember what topic I was trying to stay on. The I'm working for me. The co-op heard you said you both do it. Why is Corbin in the dark? I don't know. It's so creepy. Oh, the, it's creepier. Looking at him though, you said you both do the co-op herd, uh, corbin's using I, I thought Corbin used somebody else for co-op herd that first time I did. Okay. I did, I used Bryant. Um, it was six hours away and father-in-law's 20 minutes. It just worked out that way. So if, if you're gonna have a co-op. I do think it needs to be somewhat close where if you wanted to go look, you could. Don't you think? Yeah. How far away is yours Joe? Mine's about two and a half hours, but it's my dad. Yeah. Well that's, I think I mentioned this in the last segment, I'm not sure, but, um, um, you know. We did not put in an embryo at Bruin Ranch last year, and I would like to keep doing that as long as we can because it allows me the flexibility to use genetics differently. And, um, you know, that set of cows that we're flushing. I always think about when I flush a cow that we're gonna keep every daughter. And then if they're bulls, that we would be interested in using the bulls back in our program. And so dad's calves aren't always the same size as ours. They aren't always as big. And um, so. If we're gonna turn all those bulls out, what are the sis that we would use? And since then, I mean we're Calvin at about the same time now. We moved to cabin a little bit later. He's Calvin a little bit earlier. It folds in. Um, I like it because we have honest and clear dialogue about the cattle. He's also really pumped up and interested in our program, uh, when there's cowboys around and dad's branding calves. With his commercial cows, they always get to see these brewing cattle in a really, really natural, in their mind, commercial. It doesn't matter how much I run this exactly like a commercial deal, everybody's always gonna think that there's something behind a curtain somewhere. Like there is no curtain. It is what it is, but because we're a purebred operation, there's automatically a stigma a lot of times, and that's why I love these tours is because people come and they're like, uh, no. Yeah, Joe hasn't been to this ranch in a week. And that's real. Um. But when the commercial guys come and they help dad and they're like. There's those commercial cave or those purebred calves. They look different. They look different, and that's pretty cool. It's been a great advertising piece for us, and he's really bought into it. He's learned the cows. He's, he, uh, he sends me updates. It's, it's really added a whole new dynamic to my relationship with my father, which has been super cool. But I will say there's a piece, um, I, I. Think I said this in a not recorded section, I'm not sure, but Abby always says The root of all conflict is unmet expectations. And when you engage in these cooperative herds, a lot of times we're stuffing a lot of money and a lot of trust with some people it may be the last eggs ever out of the best cow you ever had. Yeah. It may be a. You know, you took out some sort of loan that you're questionable on paying and you're like, man, this is gonna be tight. These cattle really have to count and there's a lot of trust there. Well, on their side, what I realized is there's a lot of stress too, because they have the stress. If something doesn't work out, I've actually had to weigh these stupid things, which I've never had to. Way before in my life, and I've had to worry about 'em ever since. The day we put the embryo in, we had to put Cedars in. And I'm not used to putting cedars in cows. I've had to sink. I've had to do all these things. And so there's that stress, but then that cooperator herd. Has the stress of feeling like they let you down too. And so I spent a lot of time making sure dad knows, hey, it's okay. You know, one of the best Panther calves this year. Um, dad weaned him the day he weaned him. Those bulls were fighting or something and it looks like it broke a part of his pelvis or something and it healed back in. So he kind of just barely misses, but he's not gonna make it. I mean, he's gonna be a steer, and that was one of the best of that flush. And dad's just devastated. I'm like, Hey. He didn't jump through the hoops. Do you have any clue how many cattle don't make all the hoops in brewing anyways? That's what defines the men from the boys. You know, like, so it sucks on the financial piece, but that's what we do. That's why we get the retail reward is because of all the culling that it took to get 'em there, right? So the cooperator herd, managing the expectations, making sure you communicate clearly and fairly bad eyes, broken tails, broken hooves. Disposition. How about that? Um, you know when we're gonna wean what that looks like, because if those guys are getting paid based upon weight and an escalator on weight, and then you're like, Hey, I need to wean these calves 'cause I need to get 'em on feed for my sale or whatever. Well, those guys are gonna want to hang onto 'em as long as they can, right? So they have the highest pay weight. So you gotta make sure to talk through all of those things if you're gonna put in IVF embryos. Vince, what about con what about conception rate? Yeah, those guys usually prefer conventionals. Um, so how are you going to make them whole? I think there's, it requires a lot of thoughtfulness and what I've seen is when the market goes high, most people lose their enthusiasm for. Raising embryo calves, and then when the market dips back low, you'll get plenty of opportunities of people chasing that premium. Well, a good buddy of mine does it too, and he, there was one certain company that put up eggs and he was pulling 150 pound calves for these people. And he won't, he won't, he won't put those eggs in anymore. I've heard of those again, I've heard of those too lately. Like yeah, who is it? And it was a nightmare for me. Bill Thatt, who is it? Do I use this company? I don't know if you do, but I don't think we should. Corbin. 'cause I No, we don't need, no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I don't want you. So he, you know, he lost cows. That's terrible. That that was a huge problem. And. You know, you were talking about the cooperators being stressed out. I mean, golly, he was inducing cows and not sleeping. 'cause he was checking 'em every two hours and I mean, it was a big deal for him. Um, so, you know, and you, you owe it to that guy or gal to make sure that you're a good steward of them. Like if you're gonna put in some baby elephants, maybe you ought to do those on your own cows. Right. Um, you know, dad, that's fair. Dad's like, wait a minute. How many times does this mating go back to 60 71? Is this thing gonna have like 15 legs? And I'm like, no, dad, it'll be fine. You know? But actually I'm, I'm using your place as the Petri dish for it. Yeah. Um, just kidding. Uh, but I, I think you're right, Vince, like. You gotta be a good steward of them folks, because there's two sides to it. Uh, in the last segment that didn't tape, you talked about how expensive it is and maybe there's a better opportunity to run different cattle. Yeah, and I'd like for you to talk about that in a second. But on the other side, it's also out here in California. If you think about our stocking rate, what dad puts in for embryos, for me, I'd have to lease another 1500 acre ranch. Probably. Yeah, Lee. I don't think there's many of those just kicking around in California. No, probably not. And that, that's what I was getting at on the last deal. The, you know, some people need a co-op. Uh, there's a place not far from here getting started. They don't have enough land. They don't need to own the resets, they just need to own the finished product. Um, if it's me and I got the space, I'm owning the resets. I'm not putting. I'm not sending a big slug of eggs to somebody and then handing them a a hundred thousand dollars check at the end of it. I would rather take that a hundred thousand, buy less resets, but own them than they have natural calves for me. If they don't take the egg, that helps pay bills if. Some reason I get in a bind, I can load them up, the ones that didn't take the eggs and take 'em to town. I can take 'em to town at weaning if I need to, um, or sell 'em as commercial breads or whatever it is. But instead of me paying somebody 2,800 bucks for a wean calf, I'd rather spend $3,800 and own the cow and she could raise two embryo calves for me so that turns that cow cheaper. Um. And do a lot cheaper investment. But that's just how I see it. That doesn't mean that I'm right. Um, there are pe just like what you guys are doing, man. That's the perfect scenario is for both of you. You know, Corbin's got the room to run the extra cows, but in the drought he didn't, so he had to to get rid of them. Um, yeah, so it, it's all it, it all just depends on your situation, how you're set up, what you're comfortable doing. I don't know. Well, and I just got done telling you how I prefer to have dad do it, and then I could sell these cows and everything and the market's super high. Well, the cows I want wanna sell are the old, old ones, or they're ones with a bad foot or a bad tet or something. Correct. Those aren't the ones that are gonna bring 4,500 at the sale barn either. On the special sale, the ones that are gonna bring the 4,500 are the ones that are the center of your herd, that are the tack drivers that are selling the six to $8,000 bulls. And so it's kind of this weird ebb and flow of how we can maximize. The cattle we don't want in our breeding program and their value, and then maximize the resources we have. And we didn't even get into tax liability that comes along with situations like this, which is a very, very important strategy and how you manage your cash flow and your operation. And, and I do hope that that's a topic we can discuss in the future with someone who is a little bit smarter than me about it. And, uh, but being a business owner now. It's presented a whole new host of challenges for us, and that's another thing with cooperative, cooperative herds. I remember a, a guy saying this out here when we were putting in like close to 200 eggs a year, says all fun and games, until that semi-load of heifer shows up. You're like, yeah, the semi-load of bulls went to the feed yard and all we had to do is make sure those were handled right and sold to the sale. Now the heifers, they come back home. Some of those aren't as good as what you had in the field and how are you gonna recoup that cost and, and the capital intensity that's associated with that too. Um, so it, it can catch up with you real quick. Absolutely. It can catch up with you real quick. Absolutely. Alright boys. Joe, you gotta go get cows up. I gotta go get some stuff. We're shipping, uh, replacement heifers to Oregon in the morning, and then I'm visiting, uh, one, maybe two if they're a listener. They're a closet listener on Saturday, so I'm excited for it. Yeah, I heard Milo's four wheeler go by. Um. I'm sure we've got a little bit of daylight left. I'm sure she's wanting to go do something. She probably gathered something for you to wean, but you'll wait for another two hours to do that, won't you? Yeah, I'm not in any hurry. She, uh, the other day, the other day she's like, dad, there's cows out. I put 'em up, shut the gate. Okay, cool. That's awesome. Like, that's fantastic. Did you remember that? You're six years old? I think you're forgetting you're doing stuff on your own. It's really freaking me out. You know, one thing, one thing we haven't said. One thing we haven't said, because we're in the Angus business and it's so easy to live in our Angus silo, we have so much good news in the beef business right now and so much to be grateful for guys. Like it's silly when you see these reports, a thousand pound steers bringing over $3 and you like. Are you kidding me? I sold, I sold several bulls this year. Mature herd bulls bringing 38, 40 $200. I mean, coal cows that are bringing more than a lot of people have ever sold bread cows for. We just had a customer, kind of some thinner cows that they had that they sold. They had a whole dispersal. Those cows average like $4,200. Body condition score four, four and a halfs, I mean. I just sold two loads of broken mouth cows all over 10 years old with about two, maybe three text messages yesterday. We, uh, like we are in the glory days of beef production right now, boys during COVID, each and every one of us sold steers for 900 bucks thousand bucks was at the top. Now a 550 pound steer is bringing 22 50, 2300 bucks. This is crazy. Blake, I'm not sure. I don't know what to do. I don't know where it was. Blake showed me something at lunch. The guy had 415 calves that averaged eight 70, and I don't remember the price on 'em. It was over $3. The total per head price was 2,900 and some change. On 415 heads. Imagine. Imagine taking that check. My God. Imagine taking that check if you're a stalker and buying back. That would be freaking hard. Well, here's the other thing. So that gentleman who did that, Vince, he's gotta pay off his operating note. He's probably gotta pay down some debt in some different places. But he's sitting there thinking, I gotta manage all this income. I gotta go buy some cows and everybody needs to buy cows. Everybody needs to buy cows. It's, it's nuts. It's absolutely nuts. And there's not any to buy. Yeah. But where is not, would he have been better off to keep the females and those could have just been all steers and he kept the females, I don't know. But would he have been better off to keep the females, sell the steers? He don't have as much income to have to turn around and go buy and raise those females to put back in the herd. Because like you said, yeah, it's probably a little quicker to go to the neighbor and buy a hundred bread heifers or whatever, but they're not there. You can't find them. They're not there. They're not that. That's what I think. I think this market's looking for some indicators of stability. I'm not an economic, uh, economics major. Like I don't even follow a lot of that stuff. But I think some signals from our politicians are really, really scary. You know, when we were opening up the border for the screw worm. And then you see the futures market tank, and then all of a sudden Brooke Rollins came out. Was it today or yesterday? It was yesterday. As we're taping now. Um, and the market just went nuts again. So like, but it went back down. What we're gonna do about screw worms, because if all of a sudden they get those and they, a report comes out that says it's eradicated. We're opening up the border, and that thing goes the other way. Again, I'd like to just know what's a stable calf gonna be? Is a stable calf gonna be at. Predictable. 2,500 bucks a piece. 2,700. Is that our new normal? I don't know. Um, I think it darn sure could be guys, I think. I think people want American beef and there ain't a lot of it out there. It makes it exciting for me. If a calf brings 2,500, my life's changed forever. I gotta figure out a way to manage it. 'cause I'm so used to being broke that I don't know how to manage money. And when I have, if you need help with your social media. I know guy. Alright, boys outta Boot Wicker. Let's get outta here. Take it away. Bye. We will see you next time around the shoot.