Pathfinder Perceptions and the Power of Sale Catalogs

The hosts recap a previous episode featuring their wives, share farm stories including Amy rescuing a groundhog and a phone surviving a fall into a dry ice/methanol cooler during freeze branding, and then discuss the American Angus Pathfinder program and its criteria. They debate the value of Pathfinder designations, noting how small contemporary groups, herd management differences, and ET calves can cause strong cows to miss recognition, and they emphasize the need for context and reputable data submission. The conversation shifts to bull sale season and a lengthy debate about paper catalogs versus online catalogs, marketing waste, and the importance of maintaining accurate customer mailing lists, before closing with mentions of Korbin’s upcoming sale, CCi.live streaming, and ear tag branding ideas.

Transcript

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Welcome to around the shoot. How about today? When I was in somewhere where I don't remember where I was and I called, I was in a store and I was like, Corbin. Oh, Corbin was at a sale. Corbin was at a sale today. And I said, you left already. And Corbin, what did you say? Why'd you leave?'cause the boss said it was time to go because Milah said, let's go. Yeah. Just like Vince did. Vince said, let's go. Let's go. Mya. Let's go. It sounds like my, you listened to Milah? Yeah, milah said, let's go. So there's, how about last episode guys? The was fun. The ladies did a great job. It was fun to do something different. I think we're gonna have to do that again without us. I think it would be really cool if they got to just talk to each other, and it might be a deal where we need to have one of us there because Joe's shaking his head right now. We might need, uh, a chaperone to make sure it didn't get off the rails, but, but the real reality is that it was hard for me and Lucy to pay attention because our kids were screaming the whole time. Well, that is rough. You need to have a baby. What did you, what did you learn that was novel on that podcast, Vince? What? Novel Writing. Novel. Like new, like what did you, what did you learn? Not writing. I learned that. I don't know. I don't know. I kind of feel like I knew both of your wives through, through you guys. Yeah. Corbin, did you learn anything? I learned something about both of you. Oh God, no. I want you to tell Vince what Vince and me, what you learned about each of us, and then I might come up, I might, I learned that, I'd be like, listen Bud Hole, I learned that Amy did not know about a farm for a year and a half. Like Vince, Vince was full blown engage, had her locked down and it was okay, by the way, Shazam, we got this farm and you better sell your jet ski'cause we need to pay an operating note. Oh God. She had no, first of all, the engagement didn't happen for seven years. Oh, okay. So she had time. So she had plenty of time to get out and she didn't. Okay. She, and and it wasn't seven years like you worked at the farm for five and a half of those years, right? Yeah, but I'm saying she, she wants to complain, but she had plenty of time to get out. She didn't want to get out. So she wanted that, she, she wanted that. Hm. St. Love. No, she, she, she just really didn't like jet skis. Yeah. What did you learn about Corbin That he can't find beep? Can't find nothing. He find nothing. And do you know why I can't find anything? Because it's been hidden from me. Oh, been hidden? Yeah. You know, we could, we could totally, uh, Amy's the only one that's gonna hear this, Joe. We could totally say whatever you wanted to say right now. Yeah. But how did you, did you think, like, did you listen to that thing the whole way through Cory? Twice. I thought it was funny. Did you think It sounded like I enjoyed it. Did you enjoy it? I loved it. But did you think that Amy's been sort of gaslighting us the whole time and she had some sort of media training or something? No. I'm serious. She's very good at gaslighting. But not about the media training. You know who else is really good at gaslighting? She was so comfortable. So comfortable. Was she not? Yeah, she actually told me. She said I was a little nervous at first, but then once everything got rolling, it wasn't a big deal. I was shocked. I, I've talked to her a lot on the phone when, especially early on when she was doing the editing stuff and yeah, we've become friends and she was really, really articulate and good, really good. And Lucy, she was over there hiding, hiding off the screen so that no one could hear. Lucy was like this. Yeah, she was hiding. Well, Amy was at first till you kicked her out from behind the microphone. Well, and so Abby, but I wanna make this clear. After I listened to it, I was like, you know what someone thinks, I actually did have a script there for her. Like, you're gonna read this script, read it. There was no script. Read it. So, um, we're, I guess it was sa. I don't know what day it was, but we were, me and Nate were sitting on the couch. We weren't doing anything and Amy comes busting in the front door, like all outta breath. Oh my God, I thought something had happened. I mean, I thought it was the end of the world. She had took bug out to play ball and she was like, did you not notice? I was gone for a long time and I was like, I don't know how long you guys played ball. I'm watching tv. Did you not hear me screaming? I was like, where were you? I was at way down there across the creek. I said, honey, you could stand in the front door and scream and I wouldn't hear you. I'm watching tv. So, so the other two dogs had gone down there and gotten a groundhog and they had latched onto this thing and was playing tug of war. And Amy goes down there and she saves it. And oh gosh, it was Leave the fricking stupid thing to die. It was a very dramatic thing. She's like, oh, it's a pet now we gotta bring it thing, but here's the, and it's gonna have a litter box and it's gonna have a name. His name is Hedgehog. But outta all that, somehow it was my fault because I didn't hear her screaming. What were you, what were you watching? This isn't reality. I saw this on an episode of land. Oh my god. And you guys were dressed up like pirates or something? No, I was not a pirate. No. That's funny. I didn't even know hedgehogs were a real deal. Like, yeah, Sonic and Groundhogs. Is it groundhog or a hedgehog? It was a groundhog. Not a hedgehog. No, I thought they were all a northeast thing. Wait, no, we have groundhogs. Did you save them? Amy saved him. We went back down there and he was crawling off very slowly. I'm, oh my God, saying he's probably not breath. Do you wanna know how hard I would've beaten that thing with a shovel? Oh my God, Amy is definitely not, not gonna like that ever again. One that was the type of farmer I I learned in the last episode. The type of farmer she avoids we're the ones that whack groundhogs. That's right. She likes the most was good episode ones that, uh, she, she likes the ones that don't hunt. The other thing that happened to me today is we were freeze branding and this heifer was, um, being very difficult. So my phone was sitting the whole time sitting on the edge of the cooler. He showed her a video and she said that he, he put her, he put a, he put his phone in front of the heifer and so she could see the video to calm her down. What video did you show her? Is that not what you did? The the phone was sitting on the edge of the cooler. Nobody touched, said cooler. I'm pretty sure Brian Marshall called me and it vibrated and it fell in the dry ice and your own phone. Methanol? Yes. This phone and it's fine. There's little Amy. It's fine. There's little Sophia and little Nate. So I'm gonna tell you something. This morning you called me and what'd you ask me? I don't remember. You said, why do you sound down and we're freeze branding? And I said, oh, that's my least favorite activity. Exactly. And he said, well, how do y'all do it? And we were talking about all the different tricks and tips and I'm pretty sure if that could have Brian Marshall call it. And it vibrates and goes into the, the solution you're using to cool down your irons. That something isn't right about the solution. It, well, that's, it should have ruined your phone or froze your phone. It was hardest. I got it within a few seconds. But how'd you get it out there? Did you burn your fingers? I, I grabbed another Brandon Iron and lifted it and it was just stood up enough where I could grab it or I could grab the top of it and I carried it out there and took the case off of it. I wiped it all off and I set it out in the sun and it worked. Do you wanna know the truth? I, I actually think that dropping your phone in liquid nitrogen's a better deal than dropping your phone in water. I agree. The liquid nitrogen just kind of, whenever you, it just kind of disintegrates into nothing but water. Just, I don't know about liquid nitrogen, but the methanol that I was using. Oh, oh. He used methanol and dry ice. Probably dried out some of the, any kind of moisture. He used meth. He used meth for his, uh, fever. Yeah. Why do you have a look, Joe? I just, I can't believe that phone's still. I feel like I'm in a TV show. I feel like that phone was toasted. I feel like the case should have been eaten by the cold. I mean, so it came back on like 10 minutes later and it kept it, it said, oh, we've re we have you got the new update. I was like, I didn't even know I wanted the update. And it We'll take it. Yeah, we'll take it. And it said, um, you know how it is when it updates, it says hello in like 30 different languages to you. Swipe it. Oh yeah, yeah. And curse it. Oh, need you. Yeah. It was doing all that and. He was doing some weird things. Joe. Is it Randy? Joe? Who you looking at? Randy there? Are you looking at Randy? No, no. Miles is pulling up down the driveway here. I'm, I'm in my, my bedroom recording studio now, so I don't have to look at Randy at all. This is the third different place Joe's recorded and Vince, you're, are you in the same place you were? Third place second. Okay, so I want to get back to the languages. Anyway. All the languages are welcome. So it, it went to, it was dead set. I had to go get on wifi. It would not let me go any further until I went and got on wifi. So I went and walked to heifers. Now, well, meeting calls, me phone rings, answer it, and I was laughing. I said, I can't believe this thing's even working. Can you do I sound okay? Said, you sound clear as a bell. I'll be dead young. It's, what did Brian Marshall want? I don't know. I never called him back. I was busy and then I hustled home to get on here with you guys. Well, he's gonna have to wait five days to find out why you never called him back. And then the answer he is gonna get is that, I don't know. I don't know. Just didn't do it. I don't remember now. It's been five days tomorrow. Alright, two topics today. We gotta move along'cause I got dinner in 40 minutes. Um, let's go. We have a topic that's been sitting here for quite a little while, um, Pathfinders and we could discuss those a little bit. And then the second one is actually more timely talking about Corbin going to a bull sail. We bull sail season is upon us Bull female sale, production, sales, all these things where we're traveling the country trying to source our next year's exciting genetics. So, which one of you guys wanna start with? Do you wanna do Pathfinder quickly or do you want to. Let's go with a Pathfinder deal. Okay, so American Angus put out the Pathfinder report, and Max, I apologize, our buddy downer, max tweet, since the most epic, epic social media Snapchat you've ever seen. Absolutely love it. He's become a good friend. Um, he just put Pathfinder, I don't know what you were getting at Max. I don't know what you were asking if we value the Pathfinder if we don't, but we figured we'd just kind of beat around on that one a little bit. First of all, I wanted to read to you guys the guidelines and then I'll, I'll pass it between the two of you to start discussing it a little. What makes a Pathfinder cow? This is a mother cow straight from the Angus website. To qualify, a female must have produced a calf within the past 18 months, and it must have been reported through a HIR. The criteria are produce her first calf by two years and 181 days of age calf, her first calf within 30 days of, hold on, I'm gonna stop you right there. Uhhuh, I'm gonna stop you right there. Two years in 181 days. So what I, what, what that, what that gets me to is that's two years and six months. So what that's getting me to is like if, if, if I was to withhold, withhold some heifers and not breed'em, they would be 100% eligible for the Pathfinder program. No. So why if I held every one of'em? Okay. So I do that.'cause I, I haven't got there yet. There's more. Let him finish. Let him finish. Okay. Okay. So that's one way. So two and a half years of age. And Kev, her first calf within 30 days of the herd's. Average age four, first calving. So what's that saying? What that says, Corbin is if forever you've always said that your herd calves at two and a half years old, then that will be just fine. So here's my question. That's management. Hang on, I'm done. How long is forever done? How long is forever? I'm not done yet. I don't know. I'm not done yet. Determine separately for each herd from all first calf heifers reported in the herd. So if you had a spring calving herd and all those replacement heifers, calf first is falls. They could fit. Yeah, if you had a fall calving herd and all those cav springs, those would fit provided they were less than two years and 181 days old. And then they have to maintain a regular calving interval with the maximum calving interval is 365 days plus 30 days divided by the number of calving intervals. So her first three calves must post a minimum weaning average progeny ratio of 105. Oh boy. See, I cut that off anyways. Um. A minimum of five calves in a single sex contemporary group is required each year to calculate. Calculate the average that Corman will touch on that I know, and calves must be cied by a registered Angus bull. Females note, females must meet the requirements annually to be included in the list, but once designated a pathfinder cow, she's always a pathfinder. So let's say she has her first three calves, qualify her at 105. The fourth calf she falls off. She's always got the hashtag or the pound sign, whatever you want to call it. Depending upon your age and iq, those will maintain on her registration paper. Conversely, before I open it up, I'll get to a Pathfinder sire because we hear about those often. Then AI said five daughters have to be made pathfinder within a year, but then when I read the Angus guidelines, it simply says Bulls must have sied at least five pathfinder daughters to be included in the report, not necessarily in a year. The, the report doesn't specify right, that I could, that I could see five total. So what I wanna say first though before we open this up, is none of us would claim to be experts on the Pathfinder. Um, what I hope in this discussion is we can just talk about do we think it has value personally, um, in an overall scheme. Does it have value to the association? Does it have value to you? What's it mean to you? And then what are some exceptions and what do you think of the Pathfinder report? So Corbin, why don't you start with one of the struggles you mentioned to me earlier today when we were talking about Pathfinders. So actually while you were talking, I pulled up a certain cow. It's our oh two two cow. Um, and she's a cow that, that I identified early on. She's a cow that I knew was gonna be, uh, that was gonna ratio really high. She's a really prolific cow, I guess you might say. She's one that, that even if he was in the spring or fall herd, that, that I would know would be an elite cow. So this cow, um, our fall herd, first of all is much smaller than our spring herd. And I'm not saying that the, the, the pathfinder criteria are flawed by any means, but I'm saying there are still cows that, that kind of fall between the cracks. So this oh two two cow. She's three at 360 2 at 1 0 8. She's got, um, contemporary groups of seven. Seven. And then, uh, for the middle calf it's four. And the reason she has four in that contemporary group is because there was 12 bulls and four heifers. So she gets left off the Pathfinder report even though she ratioed one 12 that year because she only had four in her contemporary group. And I don't really think that's a problem. I just think it, that it's a, uh, what it does is it presents a, presents a problem for me, uh, marketing wise, that's all it is. It's a how do I, yeah, but not really. You can still say she had three at whatever, 1 0 8 or It's fine. It's really fine. Yeah, absolutely. But, uh, I really wish that cow would get recognized because I think she deserves to be recognized. And the problem I have with that being the middle one is that she's, so let's say she has this next one, which she has another heifer. And let's say that contemporary group is seven. And she ratios one 10, and then her ratio is four at 1 0 9, and then she's got one that's seven at seven. Contemporary group, 4, 7, 12. She's still not gonna be eligible for that. Pathfinder, right? As from the way I, um, understand it, because she's got that contemporary group of four mixed in there. So even if we throw one in there, that's, it's just hard for, it's hard for the person who's growing, who's actively growing their herd and has a, it's hard, it's hard for little guys to make pathfinder cows, let's just put it that way, because you just don't have the, you don't have the numbers. You don't have the numbers. But I think the Pathfinder thing is. Important, depending upon certain things. Um, you know, if Corbin, he's a small breeder, if he tells me This cow did three at 1 0 8 or four or whatever, I'd be like, okay, that's, it doesn't matter to me if she's got the hashtag. But see, here's the problem, Vince, I have to tell you that I have to tell you that you have to ask me rather than it just being there when you go open my sale book and go start flipping through it. Yeah. Maybe you're not looking for that. If it's in the for that, put it in the, I look for that. Right. That's fair. Fair. That's a hundred percent fair. But that's something that I look for is for that pathfinder symbol. And so what I'm saying is with you or small breeders, it's not a big a deal for me. But then you also have, you've got these big breeders. And if they're big contemporary groups, that means a lot. I would think it carries a lot of weight because if you got two pathfinders in a contemporary group of 110, that's a, that's a big deal. I would think. It's hard. Hard Would it would easier, Joe? Would it be easier to make? It's, yeah, it's easier to make it, actually, that's what I would think. Honestly, it's easier to make Pathfinder in a bigger contemporary group because you don't have to have one that ratios 70 and one that ratios 130 in a contemporary group of two, for example, right? You can have 30 cows, that ratio 99, and then that cow gets a one 30 on top because she pulled a percentage point off of each one of them, right? Basically. I mean, that's the math way of it working, and so I think what both of you guys are saying though is something that I completely agree with is. The context behind Pathfinder Yeah. Is what really, really is important, because I have some friends who advertise a huge volume of pathfinders, which I think is lovely, and it's a great way for them to track productivity through their cow herd. But they've also got contemporary groups like Corbin touched on that are just enormous. I mean, the, the largest contemporary groups we get are 15 or 20. Well, it's not that I just have 15 or 20 head paddocks everywhere. It's that I'm really, really stringent on keeping those cows together. Like I've mentioned, this one ranch that I have in Grass Valley, it's an incredible, incredible ranch. I need to not be contemporary. Grouping those cows against the ones that are at the first calf, heifer ranch, and those ones against the ones at these, at this ranch, because they're different soil types and everything. Well, I put 50 cows in there and 50 of those cows. Came off of different winter ranches. So they came from several different winter ranches. One of them's good, one of them's not. And so how much fetal weight do these cows that are weaned early with bull calves have as opposed to the ones with the females? So I try to be as accurate as I can with the data. Unfortunately, getting so deep in the minutia of that accuracy has put me in a spot where I don't know that my best cows get the Pathfinder designation all the time. Some of it was just the ones that were in the most fortunate of situations. Right. And I do think now I've, there's two cows I've told you that I really, really value in our program. Um, one of'em, Vince owns a son of, and another one is, is a like 15, 16 sister to her. Those cows did stand out and so when you have, and they're both pathfinders. So when you have all these difficult hurdles, I'd like to say in my herd. You want to talk to me too, because then there's two other pathfinders who weren't nice cows when they were here. They aren't here anymore for one reason or another. Or they're raising an embryo calf. You know, you gotta remember Pathfinder designation does not take into account feet or utter quality. Right. Or um, confirmation of a calf or any of that stuff. But I would say I'm not a critic of Pathfinder just because I actually think it was Angus's best stab at trying to identify cows that bred and cows that raise big calves. It was that simple. And I don't know how else you would do that. And legislated, I think it's quite fair how they even give the extension of a two and a half year replacement heifer because some people that fits in their management scenario. But I do think. What? Corbin. Corbin, you touched on it and I think how you were saying it here sounded like you had sour grapes, but it was just, I'm not sour. Very matter of factually you were saying it matter of factually like you just said. Yeah. But, um, goodness. I just lost my train of thought. What'd you say? Just, just playing devil's advocate. You won't ever get the marketing, you said you won't ever get the marketing, you won't ever get the marketing piece to it. So, uh, and you are saying, actually, I can't get that marketing piece. I'm not saying that I want it. I know how good my cow is and everything, but maybe what you're saying is I now need to look with a little bit of grace in some of these other programs where I demand that a cow has absolutely the hashtag. Well, if she doesn't, and it's still a good bull that I'm looking at, maybe I need to dig a little deeper and find out the why. Dig a little deeper. I think it's a good time also to point out that, uh, I, I've said it before and I'll say it again like a, a, a more in depth look at the Pathfinder program. I like the three at 1 0 5 and 365 or whatever, however many days it works out to be. But I also would like to see that extrapolated out further and see some older cows that have provided some more longevity be rewarded. It used to be longer. I don't know if that con that, that, that age needs to be six at 1 0 5 or six at 1 0 2 or something like that. But, but a lot of times whenever I'm looking for a bull or whenever I'm trying to seek out some genetics, those cows that are 10 at 1 0 2 or 10 at 1 0 4 or seven at 1 0 3, those are the type of cows that really stick out to me. And unless it's printed in that catalog, uh, which the guys that to, to the credit are the people that normally have cows like that. They normally do a good job of telling you what that cow is. But at the same time, um. I wish there was another designation for cows that are super long, super longevity, that, that have done it for an extended period because we're including cows that are just now, uh, what, five? Right. So Vince, you just said something though about it used to be longer. Can you expand upon that? Didn't, didn't it used to be, God, I think it was, um, 10 years sounds too long, but it used to be way out and I think they had to change it, or I think they did change it because of, uh, embryo transfer programs. People were pulling those cows out. They were never making, I could be way wrong about this, but I swear it used to be a lot longer than three calves. I don't know the answer to that, so I can't comment. But I, I would say that that. It doesn't reward the speed of genetic progress, quote unquote, and I'm holding up my air quotes, which I think a lot of people would say breeds need to push the envelope on genetic progress. I think that actually the Angus breed has shown that they're so far out in terms of growth and a lot of traits that we deem progress. That there's a lot of people saying, we need to dial this thing back and we need to get back to the basics of finding a cow that produces for a long time. I wanted to give you another context. When I pulled up the 72 0 9 cow mine, um, a lot of people I've showed videos of this cow, she's one of my favorite cows. We flushed her this year. She is, uh, nine years old now. So there's still a calf that hasn't been reported'cause. She's a fall, so she just turned nine. But anyways, um, she reads five at 110. Kevin, interval of 3 57. Six at 3 57. And you go, wait a minute. How does she have six at 3 57 and five at one 10? Well, in the fall of 2022. 2021. I'm sorry. I had a set of cows at a ranch that it didn't work out for me to AI'em. And so I brought those cows in and we just put eggs in a pile of AI cows. She conceived an egg and that calf she raised to 108 ratio too. So all that cow has done is drive tax and she has still met the thresholds, but she'll never be a pathfinder. Um, so to Corbin's point,'cause of that year, is it because of that year? It's because of that year. Yeah. And she, but I thought those were supposed to be eligible. Now you can do three, three in a row after, after that one. But how come, is that what that is? I think so. It don't match up. I thought when I thought they changed it now to where if you have a, uh, I'm pretty sure this is true. If they raise an ET then that still counts as her weaning ratio and it still counts for every bit of it. No, I don't think so. No. I swear to, I, I would've swore that, why would that count as her rein ratio when its,'cause I've heard, because there her genetics, it was a, I swear that's true. I don't think it would work either Corbin, because I could put in something that is just enormous compared to what I would use and that would be the calf. They wouldn't be able to tease out the calf's own production. But I could, I could be wrong. If anybody knows any more about this, that would be great for you to hear. I guess what we're trying to say is the pluses and minuses. I mean, uh, it's a great program. We're saying we're kind of, we're kind of focusing on the negative sides of the pathfinder thing. And I think there are some negatives. I think there's a lot of cows that fall through the cracks that, that ratio really high, that's phenotype really aren't good. You know, they really aren't good footed. They're not good uttered. They get loose, uttered. Well, yeah, if a cow's three at one 15, there's a good chance her, her DER's kind of loose and she's kind of got some different issues going on because she's raising the heck out of a calf. But with that said, on the whole, it's a good representation of, uh, it's a good rep representation of a cow being elite within your herd. I I, I do like the, if you use it properly. Correct. I think it's a good thing. Now, the, the flip side to what I was saying earlier about, you know, having a huge contemporary group, I know back in the day, one ranch comes to mine particularly, that had thousands of cows and they had a whole bunch of, uh, five to eight contemporary groups because they were putting those shining stars in these small groups and making them be more than what they are with. And, and I don't know that it was even for Pathfinder, but it, I know it was for like marbling, ribeye scan data. Those things. I think any of these manmade programs can absolutely be manipulated. Yeah. If you Oh, absolutely. Do it. Do it right. Don't try to stiff the system or whatever. And, and if you're buying a bull that it's important to you that there possibly a pathfinder in the pedigree, then, you know, just make sure it's a reputable, reputable breeder. That's all. Well, and here's one. Well think about the, go ahead. Go ahead Cor No, go ahead. Go ahead.'cause I'm gonna take us off topic. Think about the, uh, think about all the phenotypical traits that we, that we represent and that we're able to, uh, use our own discretion to, to implant. Uh, you've got feet, you've got utter, you've got all these things that it's up to the reader's discretion. So, um. As with anything, they're all manipulated you. It's definitely a problem we're gonna run into with everything. But go ahead Joe. Yeah, listeners, if you're, if you're listening in a safe spot and you're not, uh, driving type into either your Angus app or your computer. SAV prosperity 91 31, registration number 1 6 3 9 6 5 2 3. And that bull lately has got kind of a cult following by a lot of different people. But, um, I'll tell you the reason we used the bull. This was back in 2018. I would've seen quite a few, like a lot of wet daughters used in basically a commercial setting because the semen was cheap and high conception and good solid cattle. When I started digging, um, it was about that time for something a little different. In our program, I found prosperity two ways. I found him in these daughters that I saw, and then also counting up his ancestry on the three generation pedigree. He has 11 pathfinders. To me that means something. Go try to find some of these modern cires. Now, when everybody says that we want to find cattle that have some sort of, um, I don't know, a resume that shows a, a, a, a production record, that it shows that, that, that shows that they've lasted for an amount of time within a given management scenario. Just look at that animal's pedigree. It's harder and harder to do now with the generation interval we have. I'll save you the look, um, the, the time looking. Another one I found was Keneally Danny. Boy, he's really, really high. Um, and a bull that was ended up being a carrier years and years ago. His name was SAV Free Spirit. He was a GR Integrity son. I believe Free Spirit might be 12 on the Pathfinder list, but those are things that I do look for for some of these historical sire. They're ones that have gone and, and they've, they've stood the test of time. Does it mean they're without blemish? No. But if you're looking for product productivity and you're looking for the ability to do it. Over a time span. I think it's a good data point, let's put it that way. I think it's a good data point. If I'm going to source a proven cow and she happens to be that hashtag that's a great data point. Do I discount her or give her an extra bounty point because of it? Probably not. But if I go to an outfit that is pounding their chest about all the pathfinders that they have and that old cow happens to not have a Pathfinder hashtag, it probably actually crosses her more off the list, if that makes sense. What do you think, Vince? You're shaking your head or are you looking at No, I agree. I agree. I was looking. I was looking up what you told me, what you just told me to look up. I typed in his red number and there was 11. Yeah, you're right. Did you look up Ken? Danny, boy? No. Did you look up SAV, free spirit? No extra points If you know the cow family, how many times do you want me to look it up? Well, I want you to just look. You said that you were looking'em up. That's all I wanted. I'm done now. See, what happens is somebody freeze brands and it ruins the morale of the entire crew. This is also true. I mean if you wanna really just ruin your day, go freeze brand. Oh man, it's so hard on your body. And Corbin's eating pizza in front of me and I'm starving. 1, 2, 3. I thought you starve down some food man ago. Five six. I did, but it wasn't pizza. 8, 9, 10, 11. I was wrong. Free spirit is 11 and he is not an integrity. He's a net worth out of an integrity daughter. Integrity, still good stuff. I think it's a good data point. It's interesting. Integrity was a pathfinder Was he just closed it? Are you gonna say something nasty? No, I would never. He was a pathfinder. Yes indeed. Is that? Moving on. Moving on, gentlemen, that that means you had five good ones out of 150 million moving on. Are we good to move on on this one? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So, but what, to tie a bow on it, we all kind of agree that the Pathfinder program is a good program. It can be, yeah, it can be a good program, but at the same time it requires context. I really think that's what foot EPDs context. Context and the, which falls under the context, I guess is the, the breeder being reputable breeder. I think a Cal that's eight at 100 should be recognized. I've got one of those. I think who says no? I think, I think our industry, Corbin, you say that choke down, that Domino's. And I'm gonna tell you, I think our, our breed in our industry is ripe for you to tell that marketing story. Absolutely. I think we're at the spot now where people appreciate that and they would agree with you and the ones that don't, probably wouldn't be your customers anyway. So and so you have the best graphic design artists that exist in the country. Build those full page builds, send out those individual mailers, build that story for your customer. Go ahead Vince. I have a question. So here's, here's something else that you gotta consider too. Say you don't have a bunch of a making pathfinder, like Corbin said, you've got one that's, um, six or seven, like here's one that's seven at a hundred. But if the weights are good. Then she and she may not make pathfinder in, in other words, let's say her, her average weaning weight might be 800, but she's only a hundred. And then you have one over here that has got seven at one 10, but her average weights are only 600. Which one's the better cow there goes back to the context, correct? Absolutely. Yep. Dead on. So it depends if, if you've got a herd full of really good cows, you may not be making pathfinders'cause they're all battling against each other. So that part I agree with you a hundred percent. I actually would contend if we were really, really all doing our job extremely well. Are not gonna have any pathfinders, maybe we shouldn't have any because we take, get rid of those cows that are at the bottom. The ones that are way up on the top probably aren't gonna breed or they're eating too much or there's just too many resources. The more consistent and tight you get those Yes, boy, it'd be great. Isn't that the quickest way we can make the commercial cattlemen money or CattleWomen, is to say they have 100 steers at 700 pounds. Exactly. Than 100 steers that average. 700 pounds. Right? I mean, if you could sell, if every one of them weighed the same, the buyer could treat them accordingly. And so, and that's, that's kind of been insane example because we know that that's not gonna be rooted in any sort of reality. But I do think. Pathfinder can get overinflated both directions. Yeah. And I know that I have a couple really dear friends that base everything on it and, and that's okay too. They're honest data submitters. Right. Um, and, and they're longtime AI programs, you know, but I do think it needs some context because not everyone has the same resources you do. Vince does not have the ability to put a hundred bull cals in one field. No. Uh, Corbin does not have the ability to put 50 replace or 50 of all the heifers in the same field. Um, he might have a few of the, the really, really good ones over here that are shown against the good ones. And he may have a few of the crappers over here who are ratioing against the crappers. And so it's, it's kind of, it needs context and I think we need to give breeders the opportunity to give their own context. So turning the page on that, Corbin went to a bull sail today. I'm going to one on. Friday, Thursday I fly out'cause we're recording right now on the 16th. Um, Saturday. This will be the last episode that comes out before Corbin's Bull Sail too. And we'll talk just a little bit about that. Yeah, yeah. Corbin's having a bull sail. Listen, we're cor you're having a bull sail. I'm thinking about it. Okay. Good deal. You wanna come? Uh, no. You do want to come, right? Do you're supposed to say, yeah, I want to come, come. I just have a lot going on. I do have a lot going on. I gotta figure out this Pathfinder program. I gotta That's right. Figure how to make my cows hours upon hours of studying to do now. Yeah. So I've seen social media ads all over. There's podcasts, there's, uh, God, there are more. Like I almost had to take an extra run to the trash this week. Because there are so many catalogs that I don't read that are sent to me. It blows my mind. You guys that are still just shotgun approach marketing, all those things that I don't, I'll quit sending them. I'll quit sending mine. It's not April yet. I haven't got yours. There's a good chance COR is three years away. No, no. There's a good chance he deleted me.'cause he knows that I got, I didn't send one. What's the point in sending him one? He looks online. Online anyway. Got online. Yeah. I looked online as soon as it came out and I watched all the videos. They look awesome. I mean, so why do you, um, that's another thing we need to talk about too is, is like. Why do I need like registered breeders that are gonna look at my cattle? I know for a fact there's quite a few of'em that don't even get a catalog that they look and they never ask for one. And I never bother'em about it'cause I'm gonna be in contact with them and it's like, well, why do I need to waste the paper? So I need to do account next year. Corman, we really need to challenge each other. Let's keep a account of every sale catalog that we get in a calendar year. Figure out how to keep'em and then, and then multiply that by, is it on average eight bucks? Yeah. I'm talking what to make it. I'm talking or shipping. Catalog shipping everything on average between the small ones, it costs eight. And the big ones is the average eight Vince, or is it less? I think it's more, you think it's more, I'd say it's 10. Say that. Okay, let's say 10 this time of year, there's a, there's a chance I get 10 a day Corbin, how many thousands of dollars are sent to me that I will never even open? I don't even open them. Yeah. That's why I'm, it blows my mind, guys. We are funding. It's good. It's, it's, it's like a jobs program for the presidential administration. But I mean, like, how many support businesses are we truly supporting and not helping our own because we aren't doing a good job really figuring out who we're sending these catalogs to. And, and there's different schools of thought to it, man. But I don't know how many, um, so I know y'all might not use the Angus Association's mailing list, how many, but how many s do you get back. Oh dude, I got one back. I got one back three years after the sale. It's crazy. You'll get, I was worried because I only, um, normally I get 200 books sent to me and then I ship out as people ask for'em. And this year I've had quite a few more requests for sale catalogs after I had already sent to print. And how about, uh, your papers, like ag journals and things like that? I mean, I don't want to hammer on'em, but are you talking about ads or how much of that crap do you get? How much do I get that are chalk full of ads that peel away at somebody's bottom line that I've never read or looked at or nothing? I never print. I advertise in'em because it still works. I mean, I do, how do you know? I advertising in some of them. I guess you don't know. But I'm not brave enough to try without it. I, I quit. I quit doing, I didn't do a one print ad last year. Really? You did all direct. I sent y'all a video, a picture of a print ad that I just mail. I do, I just, I mailed out catalogs. Hmm. There's a print ad that I do, and it costs$500, which is cheap in today's, in today's world. Oh yeah, absolutely. And what they do is they take 30,000 of them all around southeast Oklahoma and they, they're free, they take'em to all the gas stations. So print media is not dead. I would do that. No, it's just, I wouldn't say it's dead. No. Uh, but like, okay, talk about these, these, these print ads we have to do, like, let's say to do, to get a ringman, uh, you have to do a print ad through their deal or whatever. I'm not a subscriber. I don't even know how you become a subscriber of some of these deals, but I know you have to pay them X amount of money to get them, and then you get your ringman there, right? So you're basically paying to get the ringman there, right? Well, I don't add outta the deal. If you pay, if you pay for a ringman out of pocket, it's gonna cost you just as much. You might as well get a little bit of advertisement out of it. So I started a thing probably 10 years ago. Any new customer that calls. I'll ask them, where did you hear from us? Yeah, I've been trying to do it. We try to do it. And um, I will say that all the, all the ring men that I use right now, I do get calls from their publications. I do. Um, and, but what I was, what I started this whole conversation on was there's farm journals and stuff that I've never even heard of that start getting sent to me. And those things go straight in the bin too. Mm-hmm. I mean, I'm just filling up trash full of paper, paper, paper, paper. It's unbelievable ink time. And, um, you need a burn barrel. So I would definitely say, huh, you need a burn barrel. It can't burn. No, I do need a burn barrel, but I, it's illegal. I think, uh, we got on this topic on a funny way, and I probably set us down a wrong rabbit hole, but you were talking about catalogs, so, yeah. But, but I don't, I refuse to get online and look at catalogs. What I refuse to do it. Are you serious? Yeah. You one of, are you serious? You haven't looked at any, you're one of two or three people that I, I didn't know anyone. I got on there, I looked at two catalogs last year online. Uh, one was Jason Mine and what was the other one? One was Jason Me's and one of'em was Wilson's because they asked me to go look through'em and see what I thought. And so unfortunately Vince has never seen my catalog. Y'all, if you didn't, if you didn't mail me one, I'm not seeing it buddy. But my point being. I can't, I'm not doing it. I don't sit. That's pitiful. I don't sit at a computer. And those things are not to the computer. They're not cell phone. Vince, you've got in your head, they're not cell phone friendly hall. Yes they are. Oh man. No, I had Abby. No, they're not. I had her pull up on the way to my, my niece's birthday party on Saturday. I had Abby. I said, Hey, pull up lot. 1 56. Shout out eaves. Pull up lot. 1 56. She goes, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. She gets about 80 pages in and it swiped it the other way. You know how the whole catalog will disappear. And she threw her phone and she said, I'm getting car sick. And this isn't working. Exactly. And you can look in the paper book when we get home. You have it home. You go zoom in. What about when you zoom in? It changes pages. I get so, so mad. That's exactly what she said. I refuse to do it. I get so mad. I will lose my crap. That's Abby. Lost it. I'll have a come loose. Yeah, she had a come loose. All right. But. I do think though, well, no wonder Vince has never bought a bull from me. I'm telling you at him. I'm not doing it, dude. I, I would, it'd be worth sending my catalog. Everyone, uh, go online. It's on Pebble Hill Road. I'm Vince all catalogs. I'm buy a bull really looking. The Bible. Oh, we went down a weird, weird rabbit hole. But I, I guess what I was getting at is the stacks of catalogs I get, of which I know nothing about a program whatsoever. Um, you know, we spend all of this energy and all of this time, this time of year looking for something. And I had it wrote down here. Um, this was a question we had from a listener. When we very start, first started this podcast, it was sent to us in a request. Why do we feel the need to look outside of our own programs for something so desperately? And do we apply the same level of scrutiny to other programs at we do our own. Vince go. That's a whole I do, but I wasn't done talking about the catalog thing. Oh my God. Tell us about the catalog. I, I, I do have one more question. Corbin, you said I was one of like three people in the whole United States, right? So at what point are people gonna show up and sit on the bleachers and just have their phone out looking at the catalog? It's coming. No, it won't be long. I agree that a catalog is a huge expense, and I would absolutely love to cut that out, but I I'm not gonna do it. I can't. Well, Vince, here's, here's where I'm at on this. It doesn't behoove me to send a catalog to Tennessee. So if you're gonna go looking for a bull and you're gonna do your due diligence, I'm gonna say you're selling yourself short. If it has to be sent to you in a print catalog. You're gonna be missing out on thousands of bulls that you could have otherwise seen. That's, that's fine. I'll do, like Joe just said, I'll look in within my own herd. But think about, think about all of us. Little 50 50 bull. 30 bull. 40 bull. I get it. I'm only selling 30 bulls. I get it, dude. I get it 100%, but I'm just not that guy. So I'm a fence writer on this one. I'm a fence writer in a big way because Did you notice that in print catalogs, the bulls look different too? No. Like there's a definition. Eyes real big off the page. Well, there's Joseph, so you can't, if you get a print catalog, you can't pinch it and blow it up. You can't pinch it. Blow it up, right? But the definition looks different. Bulls look different in print than they do on electronic. But Joe, here's what you do and here's what I do. Okay. If you, you, what you do is you go look on the American Angus. You go look at the sale books, and if you're just super intrigued, what do you do first, what you do is you go look at the video and find the video. Yeah. The second thing you may do, if you're like, Hey, you know what? There's a chance I might spend some money on this bull. I'm gonna call this person. What's the third like? Probably not even on your list. It's calling to get a sale book. True. Uh, I will say this, whenever I've been interested in something that is not, that I'm not on their mailing list, if I find it online, yes, Corbin, I do say send me a book if you have time. If there's enough lead up time to the sale and, and I am with Vince. I like having that hard book too. I would never be so bold, at least, at least with the current model of our business, to try to have a bull sale without a catalog. I would not. Corbin, you just sit there and said you had 200 sent to you for the mail out for people that request them. You just said that. Not 200. Normally what I do, you said 200. Normally what I do is I order 200 to get sent to the house. Yes. And then end up with 115 left over. You know, we'll take however many of the sale barn when we have the sale. Yeah. But I'll end up with over a hundred left. So this year what I did was I only got a hundred, and then I've had like 50 people call me and want to catalog. So I've only got 50 left. But then I got to thinking about, uh, all the, all the ones I'm probably gonna get back in the mail over the next couple of weeks because when you use American Angus, um, mailing lists, sometimes they'll be some, some addresses that aren't good anymore. So you'll get a lot of those books back. But it's definitely interesting. I, I think that, uh, there's people that take in information different ways, don't you? Absolutely. I think that actually, I. The conversation we probably, I should have started is managing your customer list. Because that's probably the biggest struggle of people I've talked to is managing that list and making sure the right people get information and the right people don't. Because that's what I'm saying, the shotgun marketing, where I will never be your customer and I'm getting stacks of catalogs. I don't even crack some of'em. I don't even open some of them. But then there are other people that I look with bated breath, waiting for their books. I absolutely do. And, and when I find that book, it lives, you know, I've got one right here that lives on my desk. I've got several of'em live through the house. But up against those, I'll bet you 10 to one. There's ones I've thrown in the trash. Absolutely. But here's, so one year I had, I think I got 350 mailed to me and I ran out before the sale. Wow. Sale day. I had no books to put out. None. That's a mess. It was a big mess. You wanna talk about being scared to death? I was printing it off 50. Vince, how do you even know that? Many people know? Does everybody, you ever seen what he does on social media? So, but lemme tell you. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Time out. Time out. We need to talk about this. Vince has, I was looking this up the other day because Vince went and shared one of my posts and I'm like, this is my bull that I race since he was a little tight. Like, I cab the sucker out. Ben's got more likes on my bull than I did. And I'm like, how in the bloody hell does this not he, he knows everybody. No, I don't. Literally. Okay, so what were you gonna say? What were you gonna say? About 350 books and you didn't have any and you were freaking out. I was freaking out. We ended up trying to print some off. Right. And I'm just saying I would rather, as much as it's a waste of money after that year, I would rather throw a whole box of'em in the garbage. So how many overrun you get now? We probably get the same amount, but what, what I started doing is I send my mailing list to Angus and they, I do that too. They cross, cross-reference it. They add my people cross-reference, throw'em, kick'em off if they're on their double. So that's helped out a lot. Oh, that's helped a lot. So of your three 50, that was your mailing list too? That was my, that was the speaker what you were doing that requested from me and my mailing list. So what you were doing was, you were getting your ca you were just having'em send you all the catalogs? You No, no. That was on top of the 1500 or whatever they sent out. Yeah. Okay. But what I, yeah. So what I do every year is I send them my mailing list beforehand and then they cross reference it. They cancel all the duplicates out. But I've got my own mailing list. Yes. So I see, I see what you meant. Uh, but that, that particular year, we had a lot of people ask a lot of inquiries. Yeah. Must have been COVID year we did that. I think that's a female sale thing too. And a absolutely us thing. Absolutely. There's a lot of interest. And those people want to have books in their hands and it's hard to get a handle on who's gonna need what. And, uh, but we, we ran out of'em too one year, Corbin, and we printed'em off at like a Kinko's. And you talk about being nervous with a stapled together sale book and Ooh, listen. Tough. The people that have been come, the people that have been coming here to look at cows, I've been giving'em the little s. Spiraly one because I'm like, I don't wanna run outta books here. I've been giving'em the one with the little rings around it. You know what I'm talking about? You only get 10 of those, but I don't need What are, what do y'all do with them? That was supposed, those supposed to be for the, that's supposed to be for the owners and the sale management, what they need. They, I don't want that because I, this is a different conversation, but literally whenever I open up my sail book on those spiraly ones, my middle, my middle section of the page is missing. Like, if I have a strategically made, uh, maternal, like I have one particular page that has all the herd si like all the herd cires listed on the bottom of the page, and the best bull that I ever sent or ever sold out of that cow, his whole body is spitting, splitting two, and there's a spiral in the middle and you can't even tell what he is because the middle of the page is gone. Okay, so we need to put, well, there's only 10 of them. Corman. We need to put a, we need to put a bow on this. So I'm gonna ask you guys some rapid fire questions, okay? Because we need to, we need to resolve this issue. If you know someone is your customer, you believe they should have a physical catalog in their hand, true or false? Vince? True Corman. True Joe says, true. Absolutely. If you are shotgun mailing to a whole bunch of people, there may be a more cost effective way to do that. True or false? Vince? True Corman. False. False. Okay. I say true. There's a more cost effective way than just sending out a bunch of catalogs to a lot of different people. Is a question asked? You could say you wanna know why? You probably, okay. I know we're going than seconds through false here. I did that the first year I had a sale. I sent out, uh, postcards. I feel like it was a waste of time. Nobody, I never got any calls from it. I feel like if they get that catalog in their hands, they need to see that catalog. They need to be able to open that front page and see your program. You have one chance, you got one look, you're getting one. Look for some of these people that live within a hundred miles of you. Don't make it a postcard. Make it a sale book. I've gotten way more calls the last two years doing that than I did have in a postcard. Okay, go ahead. There are mountains and mountains of cash spent and possibly wasted on catalogs that'll never be read. True or false? Vince? True Corbin. 100% true. I would say true as well. And I'd say you're probably low on the number of dollars you think wasted. It's unbelievable. It's more, it's what about the people that send you a postcard, a flyer and a catalog and they all go in the trash? Uh, I think that. Hmm. Oh my God. You're getting attacked. Chuck. Chuck, you're getting attacked. I'm trying attacked. Oh, Chuck, right now he's going mild the meatloaf. So, so, so I guess, you know, to get off this true false deal, what's the answer, Joe? What Vince? Chuck's having to camera loose. He can't, Joe. Joe takes in his Joe. Look at Joe. Joe takes his information in online. Vince won't even open a sail book online. I, I do both. I look at sail books and I look online. That's nice. Joe. We can't hear the dog anymore. Um. I will say this, I appreciate all the catalog requests we get. If you request a catalog within seven days of my sale and you're an online follower abroad, I'm probably not gonna get you one. I'm gonna refer you to go online because it's the most effective way to get information. Now if you, if you are a local, if you're sort of local, uh, and you're in the California area, I'll send one of my kids, or I myself, will hand deliver you a catalog. Absolutely. We do that all the time. Um, I do think there's value in that paper catalog, all that. I, I absolutely think there's value in the paper catalog, and I think two things can be true at the same time. There is piles and piles and piles of wasteful marketing that's done, that's thrown in the trash and. Two paper catalogs or the way, and I don't see them being replaced in the future. I really don't. I think they'd be, they become enhanced. And there's layers of multimedia that have been added to catalogs. Some people are doing, um, they talk the bulls, some people are doing videos of bulls. There's all kinds of stuff that's interfacing print and digital media with the book. But I think the book is like your website. It is a mothership that you pull customers to and, and drive, drive your customers to reading. Like Corbin had said, um, you know, he has customers that wanna study that thing. Vince has customers wanna study it. Vince says, he obviously, obviously wants to see one before he buys something, but are we gonna get to the second topic or not? Go for it. Okay, but wait, hold on. I have one more. Marketing. Hey, you know what? We need to talk about paper catalogs some more. Yeah, paper catalogs. Okay. I have an idea. I have an idea. My god. So you were talking about like people getting that catalog. Do you know, here's my idea and then we can move on to the next one. How about if somebody opens a catalog and there's a popup and it's like your best bull is just like sitting. Yeah. Like the old children books. Puppet books. Children's books. Yeah. Like, oh shoot. That would be awesome. Yes, I'm doing it. Let's do it. Okay, let's see if Shana can get right on that. Joe Lifesize, what was the next thing? What was the next thing? I forgot. I'm done now I've shut down. What was the other topic? It was talking about outsourcing bulls or something. Yeah, we spend so much, I don't know that we're gonna do this topic very much justice in short amount of time. Don't guest well. Don't just save it for next time. Let's save it for next time. Maybe Amy can edit that out in the middle. Amy, will Amy be so happy that we stayed under an hour? Will she really? Oh God, yeah. I get yelled at when we go over. Okay. So let's talk about this then. Um, let's not talk about this, uh, how mean she is to me. Let's skip that topic. Topic and let's talk about, uh, I want to advocate for something. I want to advocate hard for something. Breeders. Start building your own mailing list. Yeah. That is the fastest way for you to effectively market to people because you can use Angus as your tool. That's fine. That's fine. I think it's a wonderful tool and I use it and all my friends use that tool. But don't use it as your only tool. Use it to enhance your mailing list. Be an extension of your mailing list, but you need to be maintaining who your tried and true customers are that you want to get those heavy pieces to because, uh, just shotgunning it I think is just, it's spending a lot on unnecessary marketing dollars. We spend a little, so me and Lucy have made a concerted effort this year. To really hone in on getting that, getting our mailing list, being smart about it. When I'm, so the first two years I would get a request for a catalog. I would write that address on a catalog and I would send it, well, now I'm taking the time writing that address down, making sure I have it down on paper so that Lucy can come put it on the mailing list so that we can have that information forever. So that next year when that person's looking for information, they don't have to beg for it. Have you ever heard of Excel spreadsheet? That's what we got, baby. That's why my computer would start today. I'll tell you else, she had it. Still left it open. Vince uses CCI service, but it's super useful even if you don't use CCI. If you have those customers show up and they don't have to be like, yeah Joe, every time I see you the fourth Thursday, I gotta write my address down. Like, you're a perfect stranger for the last 20 years. Nope. We just pull it up and we say, Hey, are you still at 78 Pebble Hill Road? Nope, we decided to move or whatever like that. That is a very effective and useful list or use of your mailing list. Um, just being, just mindful of people's time at your sale too. So, so just so you know, if you mail it to 78 Pebble Hill Road, I will not get it. It's 51 67. 67. I had no idea. Six seven. You were close. You were close. Six, seven maybe let's wrap it. I got a dinner guest. Thank you guys. I think that was a fun talk that I didn't intend on having. I'm glad that we got Corbin cheered up. I really, I'm glad we got you cheered up. You sounded terrible when I got you on the phone. You're talking about your back and everything. Well, Vince, listen, I gotta give a shout out to Blake'cause he, he, he did all the heavy lifting today. Has he had a chance to work on my tags yet? That's what I'm really concerned about. Did you have from Blake? It's, he is. No. Do you know what happened? So I ordered, um, I ordered back in November. I ordered 40 tags. I was like, well I don't know how many lots I'm gonna have in the sale. Just send me 40. Well I had 41, so I had to text Blake and say, Hey, can you send me a one tag 41 because I don't have, you know, you know, it costed more to ship that thing than what the tag cost. You know? I didn't get a bill for that yet. He said he wasn't gonna charge you. I feel bad. Oh, you better send him a catalog equipment. No, you know what I'm gonna send him, I'm gonna send him a list of all of our cow herds so that he can make me tags for every single cow that I own. Because I used him on big project. You hear that? In a world? Yeah. I believe you did. In a world where things are completely inflated and expensive. Richie ear tags that are engraved are still seem pretty fair to me because I go buy a blank one for two bucks, but I can get Blake to engrave it for two 50. I mean, uh, I feel like that's something we need to utilize. Don't you guys? That's not what he charged me. Oh, that's, yeah. I, sorry. I don't know what he charged me. I just paid it. It was like seven. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I don't know. I don't know what he charged me. I know that it is super fair and I know that I'm excited about the project he's building me ones that have our brand and then just have my phone number and we're gonna start putting that in the off ear of every animal because we have so many Oh, that's dope. Like the real, the real, real big ranchers, they all know you just look at the brand or you look at the, you know who your neighbors are, but we're getting so many of these kind of really, really small micro breeders that have highlanders and everything, and they just hang onto your cal and they're like, I put it on Facebook, and I just didnt know I was supposed to call anybody. Or the popup slaughterhouses or the popup slaughterhouses. You know, I've been thinking about, uh, I've been thinking about when I order tags, uh, ordering two, but now that you mentioned that you put your brand and your phone number on one, I'm thinking about, uh. Maybe, maybe having their, their tattoo and everything in one ear and then having the brand and the phone number on the other. Just that sounds like a good idea to me. Well, I just think it gives people less excuses too. Corbin, I think it's a special kind of criminal to lock one in, you know, lock one into a chute, cutter ear, tag out all that. I, and the majority of people want the cattle to go back to where they came from. They just don't know how to figure it out. I'm thinking it would look pretty cool too. People around here would really like it. So when they hit that sucker, they know who to call to get the, their car fixed. Oh no, you just gave me something else to worry about. So what about you? Yeah, all you just, you just implicated yourself is all you've done. You've just like put identification that ain't mine. What about that brand? Oh, I sold that thing. That's somebody, it has your phone number in its ear, like, well, uh. It's not me, it's my friend. All right guys. I'm gonna get going to my guest. Thank you. Good podcast. Thanks a lot. Wasn't as good as, I guarantee you it won't break the single day record. No. That we had, that Amy and Lucy and Abby got, but it's fine. How about this, should we ask our listeners if they've gotten this far, to, if you have questions you'd like to ask Abby, Amy, or Lucy on a follow up episode, send them. Yeah, we're gonna get them on. That's so sketchy. Well, I'm, we're gonna chaperone it. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm just talking about the questions before we hang up. Before we hang up. I don't want anyone to feel inclined to buy anything from Marcel, but, uh, to have you, everyone, all of our listeners, tune in and listen. Um, I might give you all a shout out. So, uh, yeah. What, what platform are you using? It's CCII don't, nobody, I don't want anybody feel any sort of. Threat to buy anything, but just having people watch and having people root me on would, that would mean everything to me. I don't care anything about anything else. Dude, I've watched your videos. Those bulls are nothing to be ashamed of. They're, they're, yeah, they, I'd be proud of that set of bulls. Very athletic. Very muscular. Why do you think I shared it? Because they look awesome. I'm not gonna share a turd. So I, I do know, like I don't have to worry about sending Ben the catalog'cause he's gonna see my videos, he's gonna share'em, he's gonna be there. Um, I do wanna shout out one person, and I don't even know this person. His name is Blake Shepherd and whenever it sent me the, uh, my stats for my, my number one fan, Blake Shepherd was my number one fan. Was it me, Vince? You were number three? Was I four? Joe, you're not, I was only three. Yeah, because my loving wife is number two. But Blake Shepherd, outdid Vince and Lucy. I can't, I couldn't even believe what a pose. I don't even know Blake. I don't even know Blake. I wanna know him. Blake, who are you? Give him a hat. I should have sent him a camo. Give him that new camo cream and tan hat you got right now is pretty, do you see? Okay, so you can read this, right? That's pretty nice. It's pretty nice. It's backwards. Yeah, backwards. It's backwards. It's backwards. Backwards. It's backwards. She, they messed one up and so I decided, I said, well, heck, I wear it, but it's backwards. The only way can read is if you look in a mirror. It's like an ambulance. How ambulance is written backwards. Yeah. Wow. I'll look for you in the rear view. But they're cool. Yeah. Okay, Corbin, good luck this next week, buddy. Thank you. You guys be good and take it away to. We will see you next time around the shoot.