From Where to Here

E12 Between Worlds: Cass’s Journey from Third-Culture Kid to Tech Leader

• Alexandra Lloyd • Season 1 • Episode 12

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Growing up across the Middle East and Southeast Asia, Cass learned to feel at home in difference and to see cultural fluidity as a strength. Her story traces how global events like 9/11 shaped perceptions of identity and belonging, and how being mixed race taught her to navigate worlds with empathy and awareness.

Now a leader in tech and host of the podcast How She Got Here, Cass shares how living between cultures became her superpower: helping her lead diverse teams, bridge perspectives, and champion representation for women in tech.

In this conversation, Cass opens up about overcoming fear and perfectionism to launch her own podcast, redefining confidence as the simple act of showing up, even when you don’t feel ready.

Takeaways:

  • Cultural fluidity builds resilience and empathy
  • Confidence grows from keeping promises to yourself
  • Representation matters, especially in spaces that lack it
  • Difference isn’t a flaw; it’s the spark that connects us

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🔗 Links & How to Connect with Cassandra Cross

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This episode is brought to you by Red Cat Coffee House and their Landmark Series Coffees. You can find the coffee blends online at https://theredcatcoffeehouse.com/shop/, at your Red Cat locations, or at your local Piggly Wiggly.

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hi I'm Alexandra Lloyd a French Canadian who's called Birmingham Alabama home since 2,017 welcome to from where to here the podcast that celebrates the rich diversity of languages cultures in the stories that connect us all each month I'll sit down with inspiring guests from different backgrounds to explore their cultures languages and tackle some fun in our truth there or debunk segment whether you're a language enthusiast a culture lover or just curious about the world you're in the right place let's dive into your next favorite cultural adventure today I'm joined by Cass Cross a digital transformation leader whose life has been shaped by cultures all over the world born to a half Chinese half Vietnamese mother and an American father Cass grew up across the Middle East and Indonesia as a third culture kid she experienced a dramatic shift of expat life before and after 9 11 later carried her nomadic roots into adulthood by working remotely while traveling from Mexico to Vietnam to Scandinavia and now focuses her career on digital transformation helping startups and founders grow and elevating women and girls in the workplace Cass welcome to from where to here hey I'm so excited to be here Yay I'm so excited to have you here our friendships really started when we first met at that event in Orlando and I said it to you before but you are the friend that I didn't know that I needed in my life going through that podcast just journey and it's just been such a great exchange you and I and and just a such a a meaningful friendship in many different aspects way beyond the podcast yeah and it's so fun to see where your podcast is now because when I met you I know it was an idea for you you hadn't executed on it yet and you were so bright and bubbly and so encouraging I think I was really nervous when I was we were at a women's event at a conference and we were doing introductions around the table and basically I brought up my own podcast and Alexandra was so awesome and kind of followed up with me after the breakfast and was like oh my gosh I've been wanting to do my own podcast and it's so cool that you're doing this and so it's been such a great friendship because we have this shared passion and I just love that I get to be on your podcast now it's like so full circle and yeah I'm just so happy to be here a full circle moment yes absolutely well there's a lot of different things I didn't even know about you when I first met you so I'm interested for us to dive into that area of your life that really transpose and I think many other aspects too so guys I wanna start at the beginning and I want you to tell us what's your earliest memory of realizing you were growing up in a very different environment compared to kids who most often stayed in one place so I think when you're or at least speaking from my experience as a little kid I didn't know anything different so your own reality is like you have no concept of like other ways of being or or being different it isn't until you have your first experiences I think interacting with other people and seeing their reactions that make you realize that you are different I was to say my first experience was probably meeting like little other kids in America or their parents I think more more so often it was with adults actually where I would tell them that oh my family we're gonna be going to Saudi Arabia and living there for a while because of my dad's job and like they raised eyebrows and just kind of like wow reactions made you realize like oh I guess not everyone is going to other countries and living there with their family so I think that's what made me realize I was a little bit different did you have any comments when we think of Middle East I think generally speaking it you connect with what you hear in the media what is generally broadcast what type of comments would you initially get I'm curious yeah so I was born in 1992 so I'm 32 and my experiences living abroad started pretty early like I was born in the United States in California in Anaheim specifically but then while I was still a baby that's the first time we went overseas as a family like when I was born we went to Indonesia first and then after Indonesia was Saudi Arabia so all this to say this was actually pre 9 11 so I had very distinct experiences and memories of pre 9 11 going to the Middle East and post 9 11 going to the Middle East and like talking to people about living in the Middle East so I would kind of characterize those experiences like pre and post 9 11 because before 9 11 it was like oh how interesting that you're gonna be living overseas that's so unusual and how cool you have this multicultural background and experiences and then after 9 11 especially like in the immediate years following 9 11 it was just like oh my gosh be careful I'm like I didn't know that Americans could live there and like is your dad in the military like are you gonna be safe and okay with your family so yeah that was kind of like my experience so there was a different reaction post 9 11 and for those that if you're younger listening to this 9 11 was a big event and you're probably better than yeah I had to find it but I think the terrorist attacked a lot of Americans can who were alive at the time can probably remember where they were when they first Learned about 9 11 on the news it was a very pivotal time in American history and I think it's one of those moments where like everyone knows where they were when it happened that is true I was in Canada at the time and I remember we will not listen or watch much TV and I showed up at school and I was like what's going on we all talked about it we took I think the whole morning and talking about the recent events and the teacher just went through and then tried to answer questions'cause there's a lot of well why is this happening and what's going on so you saw a big shift in terms of pre 9 11 and post 11 um where were you at that time actually 9 11 I was in the United States at the time it was kind of I moved around a lot so there would be periods where my dad would have wrapped up a project or a contract overseas and then we'd come back to California my family has a home there in Orange County and so there might be like a month or two in between contracts and in between jobs where I was in America so it was one of those situations where like I was in America when 9 11 happened and I remember sitting on the living room for with like the rest of my family just watching it happen on the news and just being really silent I just knew seeing my aunt and the reactions of other adults in the room that something a big deal had happened yeah totally and yeah that's devastating yeah you alluded to it a little bit your family moved between Saudi Arabia Egypt and Bahrain while your dad was working in oil desalination and nuclear energy how did that constant movement and being connected to such like global industries shape the way you saw the world as a kid that's a good question I would say I always was in places with a lot of racial diversity and I think just a distinct awareness of America is one country in a big big world of many different types of countries and cultures so I think just being really comfortable in situations with a lot of diversity differences of opinion different languages I think I have a very global viewpoints starting very very early because I was just moving around a lot living in different places a lot of times being the only American in the place we were living in or the only Asian appearing person in the community I was in so yeah that was a hopefully I got your haha yeah your question in there and that makes me think were there so if there was already a lot of ethnicities do people speak different languages were you encouraged to learn other languages as well growing up yeah in school I studied Arabic for a few years just as one of my classes in elementary school so pretty cool that I was able to get that exposure and I think in general I really I tend to pick up languages pretty easily or not like easily I mean I have to try and study like everyone else but it's something I enjoy doing because I think I'm also pretty social and I like connecting with people and I've always viewed learning a language as getting a tool to connect with someone which I've always loved doing so is it something that when you travel you try to learn a few phrases I think a little bit yeah I always know how to say cheers and that's like one of the first things I wanna learn and hello and the jokes and the jokes can you explain like something maybe curse words or something I think it's really fun haha like yeah just connect with people and joke with people so what's a curse word in the oh my God that's bad I think well I German comes to mind so I studied German for a few years too oh I'm gonna get made fun of so bad but scheiße and like you know I used that one just by myself if it just rolls off the tongue it's very nice yeah that's a cool one okay and then also as part of your origins so being mixed race and a third culture kid is really a unique intersection what challenges or identity questions came up for you that might not fit neatly into one category or another yeah there's I think it LED to when I was growing up I think I always felt different because just purely racial identity wise my mom is Asian and then my dad is Caucasian and in spaces where there are usually Asian people know I'm mixed and then what's that I think I'm not sure they just always could pick up maybe I'm just taller and maybe my coloring is a little bit my hair color is maybe a little bit lighter brown or it just seems like people my Asian friends and peers can usually see that I'm mixed race for other people I guess it depends on the community the environment you grew up in because for example in California there's a lot of there's a big Asian community and actually a big what you would call hapa I don't know if you know that term it's actually an old Hawaiian term and it means basically half Asian half so there's a big Hapa community in California so I think in California people have always recognized that I'm Hapa that I'm part Asian part something else I think in other places when I've lived in Saudi Arabia and been one of the few Asian people in the community maybe it's less apparent that I'm Hapa maybe they would assume that I'm just Asian yeah but it's definitely complicates things because as an American living abroad you definitely feel different and other in the community but then add the layer of racial identity how you appear that can also lead to a feeling of otherness even if you are in groups of people that technically are part of your identity if I was in a group of Asian people that weren't mixed race sometimes I feel other or I'm not seen as part of the community or if I'm in a group of people of Caucasian people sometimes I am also seen as other being mixed race maybe the questions around like I wonder how Asian people feel about that and then they turn to me to represent I'm speaking very broad brush strokes because for the most part I'm in spaces where people are super tolerant and it's like my ethnicity my racial identity isn't really relevant or not relevant in a bad way but like I'm not made to feel other I'm just speaking about some experiences that I've had growing up yeah it's a complicated it's definitely a complicated thing yeah complicated place to be yeah know how to react it sounds like how have you navigated through that growing up I think it helped a lot to have a lot of siblings so if I ever felt I was different I didn't belong I always had the siblings that I could talk about that with or joke about that with and that's a really nice thing about being in a big family is you've got people to relate to and they they understand cause they're also living overseas as an expat and also as a biracial person yeah what do you think can people do to not put people in a box why would you recommend for people to not try to put others in a box if they are the only one representing a certain ethnicity yeah going back to your example and I'm gonna give you a terrible example of mine that I poorly done made a reference I was at one of those conferences and I mean I know them but I mistakenly thought the first person was the second person they're both Asian and I felt terrible for and they laughed about it and they're like oh this is the first time of the night this has happened you know and I'm here I am and I felt terrible so I think even with the best intention or even I think I've done that with Caucasian friends too like don't worry and it's like I don't wanna answer for everybody you know I can just speak for my own experience I think no one wants to feel assumptions are being made about them before they're able to share who they are as a person I think that that can feel like a negative thing for a lot of people not everyone maybe some people don't care but I think if you do if you are trying to be conscious of the way that you're making people feel the person who is multiracial or the person who's different in your group I think something to do is don't make any assumptions be really curious ask questions but then I'm sure there's gonna be some people who think it's hilarious and don't mind it at all if you're they'll joke about it themselves so I think that's a question that I'm sure some people would answer differently but I think the sentiment is really nice if you really care about not making someone feel uncomfortable or othered just try not to make assumptions ask questions yeah that's generally a good way to make the other person feel important in seen seen we're gonna have a in our segment your there or debunk an opportunity for you to debunk any myth related to your culture so one more thing I wanted to ask you because our audience really love languages and cultural nuances was there a moment when you realized you were code switching maybe with humor or language depending on who you were around I think like so much of my doing that is subconscious it's almost I don't even realize I'm doing it cause I've had to practice doing that since I was so so young cause when I was traveling with my family when I was younger and trying to integrate into a new community quickly cause you wanna make friends kids wanna play with other kids and feel like they belong you just get really good at picking up on social cues and being really observant and mirroring people knowing what's funny and what's not and the way people dress the way people behave in groups and I think like anyone who's moved around a lot not necessarily like in other countries either I think it's like you figure out ways to like quickly integrate was there some things that you kept with you as you continue in other let's say countries that oh in Saudi Arabia there were that thing that the kids were doing that I continue to do or the way they maybe they dressed that you oh I like to dress this or any particular things that you remember that kind of follow through in your way of living I think being in the Middle East it's generally a more conservative culture in terms of the way you dress certainly as a woman in Saudi Arabia like my sisters and my mom had to wear an abaya which is a black covering where essentially you're depending on where you are actually it's can be more strict or less strict but generally your chest is covered you're wearing a black robe essentially and then if you're in a more conservative environment it extends to covering your hair sometimes you can get away with not covering your hair but that's the context of what my experience was living in Saudi Arabia where I spent multiple years so I think because of that I defaulted to dressing a little bit more in terms of covering up a little bit more which was definitely interesting because moving to Southern California it's the opposite it's very beach culture you're wearing short shorts and sandals and so to answer your question I think maybe in Saudi Arabia I was dressing a little more conservatively in the Middle East but then that quickly changed haha you would like me in a different place haha so how old were you during that time cause you mentioned your sister and your mom had to dress up that way yeah but not you but not me yeah so I was young enough where I didn't have to I think basically when you're around puberty maybe 10 years old 11 years old is when people start wearing the abaya and again I'm sure it varies where you are in Egypt we didn't have to dress in the abaya at all you could wear normal clothes so the Middle East is definitely a diverse place Saudi Arabia is more conservative Egypt was less so Bahrain which is a tiny island off the coast of Saudi Arabia that country you didn't have to wear the abaya there's actually a very large military base there so there's quite a few Americans on the island and foreigners from Europe that are working at companies there so Bahrain is such a unique country because there is a lot of western influence this is so interesting and I love that you've had that poser at such a young age do you think it shaped a little bit your desire to travel and like who you are today yeah I think that it made me really love seeing new cultures if I don't travel I feel restless I feel antsy I've gotta have trips on my calendar and I really love traveling to this day it's still a part of my life as an adult my siblings also they are pretty international globe trotting individuals also so I think that is definitely an influence of my upbringing yeah so you have I think one sister that lives Sweden yeah so I've got a sister in Sweden and then two sisters in California and then my brother's in New York that's so cool that's amazing I wanted to ask to when you think back of the countries that you lived in are there any countries that you will see yourself going back in terms of having a life there cool good question I really loved living in I loved being in Mexico I wasn't there very very long not so much as like Saudi Arabia or some other places but I just really loved Mexico culture the people I met there what part of Mexico I love Mexico City I feel like Mexico City is super cool and there's amazing art and food and there's a big expat community there so you can meet a lot of people that are also working remotely also being conscious of trying to maintain the culture and the standard of living for people where they're native to Mexico City I'm also very sensitive to that so yeah gentrification is definitely a complicated component but I loved being there I loved traveling meeting people but I think Americans Westerners also should be really conscious about the impact that they're having on a community when they're living there so when I was there I was trying to give back as much as I could to frequenting local businesses and staying in the home of someone who lives in Mexico City full time who's local I loved my if I could like live there full time I'd love it yeah I love what you're saying here of giving back to the community because that's important and just being having that awareness you wanting to do something like that how do you get connected though to live into someone's house so you are you thinking renting the place or being a guest in their house while they live there that would be really cool actually being a guest what I ended up doing was I did a long term Airbnb and it was cool because the person whose home that I was renting out he had another unit in the same building and so I was able to see him regularly and get tips and things like that so that's what I ended up doing was doing a long term Airbnb very nice now let's do a fun the fun game called Truth Dare or debunk and I have a little different concept we have a bowl here and there are three different styles of card you're gonna pick a card to decide which one you're answering first pretty much if you pick the blue that's a truth and for a truth you will share a surprising cultural fact about your culture okay if you pick the dare which is the red one then you will dare to teach me a word or a phrase in your favorite language let's just put it that way so it could be any of the languages that you speak which by the way what are all the languages that you speak oh my God I don't like you you've Learned you can check before yeah I've studied Arabic before and German and I am aspiring to and studying Vietnamese right now but I'm not don't I sound terrible any of your yeah any of your siblings family members that speak it fluently not fluently I would say my oldest sister has the best understanding of Vietnamese but none of us speak it so yeah I'm just studying it now okay and the last one this one is for debunk and where you will debunk a common stereotype about your culture I'm gonna hold it for you as you can see very alright okay so the blue was the that's a truth truth okay yes so as a former expat someone with a long multicultural background living abroad I am very comfortable being in ambiguity like in situations where I'm different I go to a new country I don't know the language I can still feel at home and in fact I feel like pretty at home in that feeling a feeling like I'm other different I have just accepted yeah I'm a lot different so I don't mind it and you're okay with it I'm totally in in fact I kind of like it like yeah why why is that kind of fun you're you're it's interesting intellectually to be surprised and exposed to something you don't know or don't understand I think it's very I find it energizing so yeah love it okay you can leave it there I think I put three of each okay you can pick another alright I'm making this like a full game but and then what was this one again this one is debunk debunk okay so with an American dad and living abroad a lot of people assume that we were military kids that we were he was being deployed and that's why we lived in the Middle East and abroad when that was not the case my dad was in the military but that was actually before I was born he wrapped up his military time by the time he was having kids so the reason why we were abroad was because my dad worked as in desalination plants and oil industry so that that's the monk okay and then whoops I took it back and it's like okay alright and then this one the truth so it is true that being mixed race I got a lot of questions like what are you people wanting to know what my mix was if they could identify that I was mixed I was always asked are you Filipino are you Hawaiian or Taiwanese what insert whatever Asian hahaha and then but then there was always and what else there's something else cause I think I'm a little bit taller did it bother you getting that question it wasn't like bother but it was just what happened a lot so I was like yeah yeah I am not original exactly I was wanted a more interesting question yeah I got that question a lot nice all right and this one is a deep on corner this one is a dare oh a dare okay yes so okay dare to teach me all right I love learning how to say cheers so I've tried to learn Vietnamese and a really fun cheers to do before you do a shot would be mo Hai BA yo and then you take your shot mo Hai BA yo yeah so it's like 1 two three go and you do your shot so more high by yo more high by yo yeah good job yeah awesome it's kind of fun let's see oh we have a couple more okay all right and then this one was a truth truth okay truth would be as someone who grew up overseas I definitely have some weird gaps and cultural knowledge and it became really apparent coming to America that I missed out on certain TV shows or when I was overseas as a young person we didn't always have all the channels or sometimes we'd have older shows so I feel like I definitely missed out on some cultural moments of my generation with regard to style or bands or TV shows yeah that is a good one I think this one is often overlooked of the impact of being abroad and then changing countries because you don't have the same reference yeah I think it's different now though because when I was really young we had dial up internet and like you had what dial up internet an old version of internet where like you ever have that when you would try to you were on the internet and then someone tried to use your landline and then you'd hear the noise and then it's like you had to chew so I think technology is making this I don't think people have this experience anymore Xbox kids now you've got YouTube you've got TikTok I feel like there's a universal experience of culture or at least exposure to culture I don't think gaps exist for people anymore at least in hmm do you think so or I wonder because when I think of like let's say movies movies are not particularly on YouTube there might be some shorter clips and well see that's why growing up I grew up in Canada and like I have some movie reference I think because the language totally different because they will be done in French even though you can change a subtitle add subtitles or if it got interpreted into in English let's say then obviously you can listen to it in English but I don't have the same reference as people in America but maybe because when I was young internet wasn't what it is today so to your point that would fall in line with this that would be interesting maybe um in 5 10 years from now asking how people that are young right now and in 10 years like hey do you have the same I would love to talk to an expat kid that's a teenager Gen Z person now and just ask the same set of questions you're asking me to this young person because I really think that the speed at which news travels and trends just thinking about like pop culture things with celebrities how quickly that gossip spreads around the world I'm I would be very surprised if there were gaps that's true in people's experience of culture that's true hmm maybe coming soon hahaha okay you wanna pick another card it's a fun game like it okay so a debunk oh this one is a dare oh a dare okay yeah another dare okay so thank you in Vietnamese is kumung kumung kumung yeah are there different intonations pretty much the same so I'm learning Vietnamese so I would love if people who are native Vietnamese speakers haha feel free to drag me like haha correct me but basically I'm always slightly inflecting my voice up when I do it I think it's because I grew up hearing come on being said that way come on come on come on it almost sound like come on yeah it does sound like that ha ha ha ha ha yeah nice thank you alright another one of these okay I will say something in Arabic that I can remember like a greeting that would be like a way of greeting someone I think I might have Learned that one from past guest assalamualaikum or assalamualaikum assalamualaikum yeah and you say it to people that you meet for the first time like a greeting assalamualaikum okay so it's also hello yeah I just saying hello like at the store or yeah if you're like passing someone on the street Assalamualaikum assalamualaikum yeah very nice oh we have okay these are the same so two more of debunk you'd like to do about your culture so one debunk would be so I work in technology and I think with any industry that's like related to stem people kind of assume that if you have international background that you're you'd be attracted to tech because there can be like universal elements to it programming languages for example or like math is something that translates across cultures and that would be why someone with a multicultural background like why they would be attracted to it and that is where you would excel maybe in the US as like someone with an international background but for me I think that my cultural mixed cultural background really did help me a lot in my tech career and like I always felt like growing up I was bridging cultural differences and like translating concepts from one culture to another bridging gaps of understanding and I think that translated very well into a career in tech where I'm working with so many people teammates of different cultures I think having that cultural understanding multicultural understanding is really helpful in tech and I think it's also important just like the kinds of roles I've had involved translating something highly technical to a non technical audience and so those the act of translation or communicating in different ways I feel like that was a skill that I honed as a young person living abroad and I get to exercise that skill now in my career yes that's so important would you say is mainly when you work with teams overseas or even team within the US for example where you find this skill to be something that you use in your everyday as part of your work for sure I use it every day in my work because yes I there's a lot of you end up working with a lot of developers and technicians that are offshore but even in the US like if you're working with an all US team like they're varying degrees of knowledge of technology and stakeholders who are totally non technical coming in without it at tech background and so it's really important to be able to like include those people in the fold and decision making so yeah it still applies even if you're in like a group of like all Americans who spent most of their lives in America and I think it still benefits you to be able to translate things into in ways that people can understand absolutely that's great and I think that's something that's often overlooked as a skill that's not necessarily listed we could say even in that job in the job responsibilities or that would not be something that you think of oh yeah that's gonna be actually beneficial so you're able to bring a broader range of perspectives on the work that you do and to better the communications across departments and across different skill sets so that that's really neat well thank you so much for sharing those truths and dares and debunks with us I feel like we know you a little bit more now let's shift into how these experiences have shaped the way you show up today and especially in tech and leadership which we kind of already started talking a little bit about a kind of cultural translator in your work I'd like if you can give us a story where your international background what was your aha moment that lit a fire under your passion for women's leadership and creating a space for women in tech can you elaborate on what is so important to you and what was that moment that started this kind of new beginning potentially we can call it yeah I think that since the beginning of my career in tech I was oftentimes one of the few or the only woman on a team but it wasn't I think until I think it wasn't until like two years ago that I felt like mobilized to act on the knowledge of like the lack of representation of women in tech fields or the disparity rather specifically I went to a conference that was very b2b digital transformation oriented and I just noticed that there was such a large discrepancy of men compared to women in the room from the people speaking on panels to delivering keynote keynotes or just by looking around the room in the conference there were just so few women compared to men and I think it was being in my 30s and then having a certain level of like confidence in myself as a professional having confidence in my own voice that I wanted to do something about this lack of representation so that's when I launched my podcast how she got here and love the name thank you I interview women that are in tech and e commerce tech and business and I was just inspired by showing people that there are some really amazing women that are leading industries that are leading companies doing really innovative work you know if you were to go to conferences and and look at speaker lineups you wouldn't necessarily know that I think that there are a lot of female leaders that don't get as much visibility and I wanted to create a platform to highlight women that I was working with and I knew and show younger women their experiences show these women that there are pathways to leadership and that just because you don't see people that look like you in a room just because you don't see yourself represented on stage doesn't mean you don't belong there and so it's definitely a passion project of mine I feel so lucky to have met so many young girls who watch the podcast and meet get to meet them in person and I think that representation is a really powerful thing I know in my career I have felt really inspired and energized by meeting women who were a little bit further along than me in in their career and excelling and I've been able to learn a lot from those women and I would love if I could do something close to that for other younger girls so that's a beautiful way to give back and you're really making an impact on those young women and also just the community as a whole so that it makes an impact on me I mean like I get to interview some really cool people and I learn so much and I often times will think about interviews long after the interview ends I've definitely had like a direct impact on myself and my career from things that I've Learned in conversation with women on my podcast I'm sure that you can feel the same way with your content right just these conversations are so powerful so definitely it's had an impact on one chick so yeah I would love it if I something that comes out in an interview resonates with other people watching too that's beautiful I love that and just getting yourself out there and having that mission is something that I think we can all get inspired by living in your purpose I think that's one of those things that at first you might not feel like oh I'm not good enough I'm not confident to do that but no like you have a voice and you can use it and what passion do you have or what interest and grow them further and get inspired by others and support each other and I think that's what inspires me a lot from what you're doing is supporting each other uh huh as another woman as another person that maybe is just starting out you were there before and then you can show the path to another person that's just starting out and I think you do that beautifully through your interviews and through the way that you lead and I think we can all get inspired by that ah today's episode is brought to you by Red Cat Coffee House and their landmark series coffees as a Cat Lover I could not resist but introduce you specifically to this blend called Light Rails it features a cat on the label but not only that each blend features a landmark is inspired by a landmark of the city this one is inspired by our vibrant Rainbow Tunnel downtown and it has sweet fruits and mixed berries you can find the landmark series including blends like Ironworks Full Steam Ahead Alabama Audubon and John's Valley Trail either online at REDCAT locations or your local Biggley Wiggley it's coffee with a story and even with a feline charm yeah it was definitely a and maybe you can relate to this too it was a big step to just post my first episode live on the it's the internet is a terrifying place and you know I'm I I think I'm a normal person I kind of care about what people think still I mean to a healthy degree I think but I'm aware of other people's thoughts and feelings about me but I think overcoming that and pressing post anyway was a very empowering thing for me it felt really liberating I wrote like a piece about cringe culture and how a lot of Gen Z they don't do certain things or they don't wanna show that they care about certain things because of a worry about appearing cringe to people to their peers and I think that that's a really tragic thing because that will stop you from doing things that are potentially could really be good for you and your growth as a person that are things that are really fulfilling for you maybe I'm cringe sometimes but I don't mind because I believe in what I'm doing and it's also worthy to do something creative and different I feel like does anything new and cool happen without people taking chances and if I can inspire other people to put themselves out there I think that's a great thing and also I feel like people should try to feel comfortable in their skin and like be accepting of people and celebrate creativity no matter how that's expressed I think creativity is a really beautiful thing and my podcast is definitely an outlet for that creativity I think your podcast is so creative and cool and inspires me like so I think when people are doing things it can really that energy is so positive and just it like touches people and creates this domino effect of positivity I'm like spider webbing a little bit getting excited about creativity yeah I know that's I think it's a good thing to you know do things that you believe in yeah and I mean I think the more you do it the more comfortable ish you get are you thin TV if someone is listening to us right now and wonder OK I I have my idea I have something that I like to do that I wanna share with the world but I'm stuck and I don't know how to go through that first step or getting out there pushing the limits of their creativity to the world or pressing that post on that first initial post about something that they like they're interested they're passionate about because they're afraid of how others are gonna perceive them mm hmm why would you say to that younger you when that was the time of okay am I gonna do it what would you say to that person to get started despite all the doubts in your head I would say that there the doubts don't ever go away like I'm so I think I have perfectionist tendencies that certainly delayed the posting of my first episode because I just wanted everything perfect and I was so critical of everything that came out of my mouth in the first interview and thank you you refine things as you go and I think it's really important to show the world what you've made even before you feel ready cause sometimes you won't ever feel ready and that's not to say you don't work hard at it and like try to make it the best you can and all that but like don't sit on something forever there's also a momentum that takes place when you do post a live and maybe you can relate to this cause I'm curious about your opinion of this too because like when you start posting something happens like there's like an energy that happens where you're like you get driven to make more and that act of like doing it again you get better at it you get more confident you get less scared also like you get a little bit more you own your imperfection like I stutter and fall over my words all the time I use words wrong sometimes and I will just like cringe deeply when I watch myself because I'm just like that was so wrong but I'm also kind of at this point I laugh at it and I'm just like well it's fine haha just this is who I am whatever like yeah I think it's like reaching that stage of acceptance yeah I really like what you said about embracing your imperfections I think that's that's what it is too where we wanna you know we have maybe examples that we get inspired by that we think or at least in my experience is oh yeah this is what I aspire to I wanted to be to that level and then if it's not exactly that then you think well okay maybe I should not post it or maybe I should not talk about this yet because maybe I don't have enough knowledge about it or I don't have that technical ability to make it look like it's pervy level of perfect so I I can relate to that a lot I also think like think about content or art or whatever that resonates with you as a person are whether that's like a writer or I don't know a celebrity or someone that you see on TV or on YouTube or whatever that creates content that really resonates with you do you feel that way because they do everything perfectly and perfectly polished and they're so well spoken like for me I really love people who are imperfect because I relate to them and they feel more human I know they're not AI because is they've made some mistakes here and there like I find that really relatable and that's the kind of content I really like and I Learned from so I try to kind of keep that perspective I also think like my podcast I have I'm aware that I have a lot of listeners that are younger girls and definitely like a message that I want to share with younger girls is like to be forgiving of yourself and accepting of yourself and be confident in showing up and not be afraid to make mistakes because that's the only way you're gonna get better and so if I'm gonna tell younger girls to do that I'd be a huge hypocrite if I like didn't practice that myself which doesn't mean that it's not hard and like sometimes I'm like kind of embarrassed or whatever I don't know if I'm embarrassed actually hahaha at this point I'm like maybe I'm aware of things that people could totally make fun of for sure but I'm like I don't really care too much anymore I'm just like I believe in my mission so much I think that's key too you gotta believe into what you're doing yeah and I like I'm at this place in my life where I like myself like I know I'm not a perfect person but I try my best and I have good intentions and I try to take accountability for things and like I think part of it is getting older and I've had this conversation a lot about where confidence comes from because I'm always trying to figure out advice that will resonate with younger people to make them feel confident and so something I ask my guests all the time is like what helped you to feel more confident I wonder if it's just an age thing or I think it's actually like doing things you're afraid of those things that like promises I've kept to myself times that I've done something that was really difficult those have been sources of confidence for myself what do you think where does confidence come from what you just said yes so you know how we will tend to I mean saying things that what's the word for it where you give your word to someone but what about giving your word to yourself yeah how often do you do that because that's gonna impact your level of trust into your own ability of of the fact that you said to yourself yeah you committed to doing a certain things and you fail to deliver that's gonna I think impact your confidence that you have in yourself to be able to do things if you tell yourself hey I'm gonna go to the gym three times this week it's been a month and every time you've been going two times a week do you think you're able to do great things in the big scheme you might second guess yourself as far as your capabilities but you're very capable but it's only because you told yourself you were gonna do something and then you end up not doing it on the flip side if you're doing in going to the gym that three times because you told yourself that this is what you wanna do and you're doing it wow that satisfaction that comes from it it's like I've done what I said I would do and it's not even to someone else but I think that also build the confidence and I I kind of heard that from what he just shared so that's why I'm giving that example so yes your words really resonated with me because that I don't know if you feel the same way but like launching my podcast I'm so proud of doing that cause I was so scared just putting myself out there online people in my life people in high school like be seeing me online is just like mortified but now that I've done it pulled tore off the Band Aid and wow it's just like totally fine and I'm out there and I'm owning my opinions I think it actually brought a lot of confidence to myself even professionally I don't really get that nervous presenting and owning my opinions and speaking up for myself in meetings I think my podcast has added a layer of confidence in my ability to articulate what I believe in and stand by what I believe in that's amazing how do you feel about your podcast journey cause I feel like Alex and I have such a cool like our friendship came about from our both of our passion for podcasting like wanting to share our vision with the world and yeah I'm so curious what you feel one thing that really stands out for me and I think that answers your question pretty much is I am allowing myself to be more authentic come on in the sense that I used to see it well I go to work and my work is one thing the podcast is one thing and I'll give those two spheres as key examples here now the way I look at it is really well this is a piece of me these are two pieces of me and they also interact with each other uh huh so an example of how I've been living in that authenticity and as I in the recent weeks I've been posting on LinkedIn about both both my podcast and I've noticed you doing that yeah so it's different for example I used to hide my accent that's something I used to do well this is a part of me that translated to my work but also that made me start the podcast in a way because these are different challenges that I've experienced through my journey as a human and also as part of my work as part of my podcast wow I'm not really explaining that with the podcast but I guess where I'm going with this is I think it's allowing me to be more who I wanna be like into all the different parts of yourself integrating all these pieces together and also introducing myself as such when I share with others and they all are part of you they don't define you right like I think I'm a believer that these parts don't necessarily like define who you are you decide how what you wanna share what you wanna talk about and who you are as a person and it's so much deeper than yeah I work there or I do that is how you wanna show up in the world but I think that authenticity that I'm allowing myself to be existing is very freeing Sam and I forgot what was your question but yeah but yeah so that's beautiful but let's come back to your journey when you think of the future of leadership as a whole especially from a global perspective in diverse context what qualities do you think will matter most in what shifts are needed shifts in this or society or different aspects to get to the future of leadership that you think we need and what qualities are needed I think there needs to be free flowing information because I think so much of negative stereotyping and people making assumptions that prevent productive dialogue from happening takes place because of a lack of understanding and a lack of knowledge about cultural context and history and I think that it's really really important for people to have knowledge and a global knowledge like we were talking about this a little bit earlier but like when I was growing up overseas in international schools history right away was global in context like I Learned about Chinese history and history of colonialism like very very early and I think in America that global history context didn't really come into the picture until high school whereas overseas at least my own experience was like having exposure to that way earlier and I think that's very was very key to the development of my world view because I always had a sense of being a global citizen someone who is aware of people living in very different places having very different cultural backgrounds and sets of values and I worry about having a very narrow exposure to history or a very narrow exposure to the news I think you need to be aware of what's happening all over the world not just in America so having free flowing information I also think that people need to come into conversations not they need to disagree but they have to have conversations about things that they disagree with you can have some healthy disagreements yeah I have those all the time with my husband right hahaha I'm not sure but you also need to have this sense of like civility in that conversation coming in as a good faith actor in a debate respectfully respectfully what really makes me feel really sad is when a conversation like a debate happens and there's some really vicious tear down that is identity based and assumptions made because someone expresses one value that they have and then assumptions are made about all the values that they have and all the opinions they have I think that the vision I have the vision that of the future that I would like to introduce my children to one day I don't have any kids but like if I were to have kids I would love to see them grow up in a world where people seek to understand and seek to bridge gaps in understanding and go into debates with a sense of civility and respect and I hope that answers your question it's like a very heavy question you're asking because it's a complex question so but I hear you on I mean what you share here I think it's very meaningful how can we aspire to do that better maybe to have that civility into those conversation and respect for each other is it to not respond I'm asking out there I'm not saying there's necessarily an answer a clear answer just yet but when you think of how it's currently happening are there's areas that you think we're missing the point here because we're too fast to respond because we don't listen enough yeah because we just try to be right that one person wants to be right are there things that stand out more to you I think when I approach conversations with people that I have disagreements with at least something that I tried to do to set the groundwork or lay the seeds of like a civil conversation and a respectful conversation and also to show up myself as a person who's to signal to that person like I'm not here to attack you or tear you down is to establish commonalities find areas okay where do we agree where can you relate to me where can I relate to you and then in the areas where there is disagreement really dig in with the attitude of curiosity and as much as you can like not judging and just being where does that come from like peel back the layers of the onion of like was it something that you I grew up with is this an aspect of your faith is this an aspect of you had something very pivotal happened to you in your life that LED you to feel this certain way I think coming into those conversations with curiosity and like as a in good faith can really impact the way how that conversation goes and like also there's you can't control how like someone else enters into a conversation whether or not the other person is gonna come in in good faith so but you can only control what you can how you show up as and so yeah I was actually thinking about where there's a lot of hostility and polarization in politics and in a lot of the dialogue that's happening in the news and I think a lot of that is people not feeling secure or safe in an environment of rapid change I think that there are so many forces in the world right now that are signaling like change that is just unprecedented there's like technological change with AI there's like economic change political change and stability in different parts of the world rhetoric has a certain flavor that is I think pretty unprecedented and I think people are just trying their best to orient themselves in that turbulence and something that came to mind for me is one of my favorite books I've ever read it's it's called parable of the Sower and it is interestingly enough like set in I think 2024 or 2025 around that time so it's just it was written in the 80s but it's actually set for this time period I mean an apocalyptic view of the future to be clear without giving away too much of the plot but it's basically a future society where significant change has taken place like environmental change and societal cultural change economic change and the main character of this novel essentially builds a world view in the course of the story that allows her to navigate this turbulence in a way where she can preserve her own sense of dignity and happiness and she tries to lay the groundwork of healing her community by essentially creating in the book she's like creating kind of like a religion but it's you can also just think of it as like a intellectual framework or like a set of rules to live by that allow you to live in this world of turbulence in a way that lifts your community up with what you got this is what we have and this is the way that we can preserve our humanity and our dignity and our value system like what makes humans great even in in a situation in an environment that is like way not ideal like and a horrible in this book it's like very much a dark dark vision of the future and so I look back on this novel because I'm like there's a lot of lessons to be Learned from this main character about like ways how you can like orient yourself and lead your family lead your community in an environment where things are less than ideal like making the best of it trying to in a building your community in a way where it respects everyone everyone has dignity I think this is like you can learn a lot from that that's beautiful we said Cass you share some powerful insights thank you so much oh this is so fun it's so fun to talk to you thank you no I really appreciate this and I'm gonna look up this book it's so great I will send you a copy actually I like yeah it's so good before we close let's bring in a question from our listeners this next part is all about you it's time from from here to you this question comes from our audience for those of us who love traveling but want to go deeper than tourism what's one practice or mindset shift you'd recommend to build more authentic connections across cultures I feel like you're the perfect person to answer this so you're here from your experience what would you recommend well for me I love hanging out with people who like live in a place who actually live there full time I wanna be in dialogue with people that are local to have to get their advice on where to eat and where to go and I always preface with okay all the popular tourist stuff aside what would you recommend not to say like the sites that are frequented by tourists are not cool like but I encourage people to try to seek out those lesser sought out places and foods and experiences because oftentimes you're able to get a more authentic experience of that place and learn more I think I really like experiences that are not so like polished and curated for like foreigners palette like I wanna experience like I want crank up the spice dude let's see if I can handle it like if I can't then respect but at least I try it yeah I love that well this is your answer if you could go back to your younger self maybe the teenager moving between Bahrain and Egypt what would you tell her about where life will take her oh my God I think I would what would I say man I would say like it all works out enjoy life things aren't so serious or heavy like there's so much life ahead of you and also the things that make you feel like you're different or make you feel like maybe isolated from others that difference that part of you that's different is the really cool part of you it's the thing that people are gonna be really interested in and that will like spring forth like ideas and like opinions that challenge people challenge frameworks in ways that are really interesting so difference is cool and celebrate difference in other people whenever you see it what's a good way you think to celebrate those differences when you say that just to make it even more practical how can people intentionally do that being curious and I don't know intentional cause for me I'm it's all almost like natural yeah I'm just like oh that's so cool like yeah you you like like that's an interest of yours like tell me more about that cause difference is cool like it's interesting yeah definitely guys thank you for sharing your story and wisdom with us where can people find out more about your podcast how she got here and also just connect with you to learn more and follow what you have a coming up yeah so my podcast is called how She Got here and you can follow the YouTube channel I've got a YouTube channel where all the interviews are hosted and you can also follow how she got here on Spotify and you can connect with me anytime on LinkedIn Cassandra Cross is my full name and happy to connect with anyone who is curious about anything that we've talked about today this is so much fun also anyone who's like if Alex ever approaches you to be on our podcast do it in a heartbeat it's so much fun I've like haven't thought so much about some of the questions you ask are so thought provoking in a really good way just investigating my beliefs and reflecting back on my childhood I haven't done that in a long time so it's just a really I think fun exercise yeah and you also make people feel really special I feel like oh my God I feel very special I feel very VIP right now so thank you so much it's been just a pleasure to have you I think you have a fabulous story and you're doing some great work and you're having an impact on these young girls and women and I hope that your work continue to expand what can we wish you for the future so I'm running the Chicago Marathon in October you guys that's huge I would love it if I could just do it and not pass out so send good energy good vibes my way because I've been training for it it's my first one ever so yeah wish me luck ha ha I think that yes and at the time I think that this is gonna go live you might which date is it I think it's October 12 early October it's definitely early October so uh also I'm raising money for the American Cancer Society I'm on team determination so I'll actually give you my link if you if you guys would like to contribute I would love that it's a great cause I'm actually doing it in honor of my mom who passed from cancer so I'm excited to do this race Yay well definitely we'll have all the links in the show notes yes thank you so much and for your time and for being here with me if you were inspired by Casa's story make sure to follow from where to here for more episodes with some amazing guests thank you so much thank you for tuning in to from where to here if you enjoyed this episode be sure to hit subscribe leave a review and share it with someone who loves discovering new cultures follow us on Instagram at from where to hear pod for exclusive updates behind the scenes moments and a peek at upcoming guests until next time keep learning keep connecting and keep celebrating the beauty of languages and cultures adios