Beyond the Surface | Voodoo Isn't What You Think. Neither Is Africa.

Loulou Guedou grew up between Ivory Coast and Benin, and this deep dive pulls the moments from her full episode that go past the guidebook: why hospitality there means being treated like royalty from the moment you arrive, why voodoo in Benin is a religion and not a warning sign, and why "I'm from Africa" barely scratches the surface when there are two very different countries behind that answer.

She also gets into the unwritten rules of greeting someone (three kisses in Ivory Coast, four in Benin, and the very real adjustment to American handshakes and hugs), plus the running joke about Baoulé women and why they're known for marrying outside their culture.

This is part of Beyond the Surface, the cultural deep dives pulled from the full conversations on From Where to Here, the moments that show up once you stop being a tourist and start actually listening.

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Transcript

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Louise Gedou Lulu to everyone who knows her was born in Ivory Coast raised between there and Benin and shaped by cultures where language food and ritual mean everything when I first came to America of course I wanted to give everybody kisses on the cheek cause that's what we do they're gonna put that barrier like oh what is she about to do haha hi I'm Alexandra Lloyd a French Canadian who's called Birmingham Alabama home since 2,017 welcome to from where to here the podcast that celebrates the rich diversity of languages cultures and the stories that connect us all each month I'll sit down with inspiring guests from different backgrounds to explore their cultures languages and tackle some fun in our truth or dare or debunk segment whether you're a language enthusiast a culture lover or just curious about the world you're in the right place let's dive into your next favorite cultural adventure today I'm from where to here we're talking about what happens when your heart speaks French your children speak franglish and your life is built between continents why don't you tell us another truth about Ivorians culture hospitality is a huge deal in Ivory Coast whenever you go to Ivory Coast you always feel welcome like people would treat you like a king or queen hospitality is a huge deal over there and when you go back as a tourist or as someone who hasn't visited in a long time are they as equally hospitable or more hospitable or is it mainly with strangers equally equally as long as you're coming from some other place um yeah they will treat you like cause they wanna make sure that you are feeling comfortable they wanna make sure that you feel at home so yeah they will treat you very well how is this demonstrated there are many ways um but the most common way is um people will literally invite you into their home to offer you you know lunch dinner whatever and have fun wow that's really fun what's another another truth about the Ivoirean culture maybe that you can share with us that that's a general you know thing everyone knows that there's no way you can go to Ivoire and not have fun ivoireans just we just love having fun that's fun to have fun we're just little things basically yes okay where does that joy come from you think is there a spiritual connotation or like tied in history of someone I would say both it's just I don't know it's just part of our genes maybe people in Africa's can literally go out um on a Saturday night to the club or to whatever event and be back home the following day at noon have you seen that before hahaha that's how bad they have fun oh that's great because voodoo is widely practiced in Benin many people assume witchcraft or danger uh huh can you explain why Voodoo has always been portrayed as um something that is used to harm people the easy word is witchcraft people think of it as witchcraft and I think this is due to the fact that the voodoo religion uses a lot of things like um you know animals and stuff that have to do with um sacrificing and stuff like that but um in reality voodoo is actually a religion just like Christianity or Islam it is not used to harm only like people think Voodoo is also used to do good things to actually bless people solve family traditional issues so yeah this is um this is not true how does it feel when people are afraid of that type of practice and it's some it's tied into part of your culture yeah how does that feel um it's a little bit frustrating because it makes people scared to actually go to Benin but Benin is actually a beautiful country to visit like and when you go to Benin people over there are they are so nice they are so welcoming just like in Ivory Coast so we probably have people somewhere in the world who are missing out on this just because they think if they go to Benin something's gonna happen to them or you know there's witchcraft there there's voodoo there they don't wanna risk their life but you know they can actually go it's a beautiful country to visit it has a lot of histories um there especially if you go to there's a city there called Witha these people literally kept a lot of historical things related to the slavery era you can actually see those sites even today and learn a lot about the history there so go to Benin if you have a chance there's no witchcraft nobody's gonna kill you yeah did they teach that history in school in Benin do you know absolutely um I went to school there I did my high school in Benin and and they actually taught us um that's where I Learned about voodoo that's where I Learned that voodoo was actually a religion in Benin so yeah they will teach you everything about what happened in the past you know how we got to nowadays what whatever we're doing today how we got to that point they will teach you everything about it second stereotype for you Africa is not a country oh my god hahaha alright let's address it now so yes yes every time someone ask me oh you have an accent where are you from and I say I'm from Ivory Coast I'm really not sure if they hear Africa or if they actually hear Ivory Coast but they will always be like oh you're from Africa I know somebody from Kenya and I'm like yeah okay ha ha ha ha ha but um Kenya is a whole different country Africa is a whole different country in West Africa so these are two different countries in the continent called Africa so Africa is not a country it's a continent do you have maybe one more stereotype you'd like to debunk about your culture it's not just a stereotype it's the truth ballet women love dating people from other cultures I don't think it's a choice but it it that's how we are I guess I don't think we um plan on doing that but if you go to Ivory Coast and you meet a lady who is married to somebody from some other country usually she's bauli Bowley woman usually when you see you know multicultural people if you ask them oh where are you from they'll usually tell tell you my mom is Bowley my dad is from France yep my dad is from Italy my dad is from whatever and the mom is usually Bowley so it's it's actually a joke over there people usually as use it as a joke and they'll be like oh come on bowler ladies why y'all love dating other people like that but yeah it's it's a thing I don't know where this comes from okay well in your case you got engaged I'm also dating a man who's not from my race right yes yes yeah let's talk about cultural rituals mm hmm I really am interested personally to hear about this one so in West Africa uh Ivory Coast three kisses mm hmm Benin four kisses yes in France and in Quebec two kisses two kisses okay hahaha so what was it like adjusting to American Greetings yeah um that was hard too hahaha because um when I first came to America of course I wanted to give everybody kisses on the cheek cause that's what we do in Africa and then you will notice how the person is like you know they gonna put that barrier like oh what is she about to do haha but um it didn't take me long to understand that you know after the first two people you know that you can't kiss people anymore so um that was not a huge adjustment um it was just like I wanna kiss y'all why why y'all don't want me to kiss you hahaha but it's okay I guess I have to adapt to the hugs but yeah and also another thing is um the smile Americans have that thing where they will smile at you um if you walk past somebody or if you happen to um have eye contact with them they'll be like you know they'll give you that smile that was a little weird to me cause I was like hahaha we don't know each other why would you why would you not let me kiss your cheek and you will randomly smile at me hahaha they don't go together in my mind I was like why are you even smiling at me but you know now I also do that I do that too I guess I'm used to it now so were you more used to having a poker face and not nothing initially acknowledging people if you don't know them basically exactly or um if we happen to have eye contact for you know for a little longer than usual then I would just immediately greet you like hey oh OK you go directly yeah directly the kisses or kiss you hahaha so OK something that I'm sure many wonder is how do you determine who to kiss who to not kiss uh huh do you do and and when I say kiss I'm meaning the the the cheek kisses uh huh as a greeting do you greet stranger the same way you greet your friends your family if it's someone if it's a friend of a friend let's say a situation where you're meeting them for the first time you don't know them yeah but they're friends of your friends how like how do you navigate that tell us more about it usually if you go out there maybe you're at the store or whatever and you just see somebody randomly and whatever situation leads both of you to greet each other it's probably gonna be a handshake not kisses because you you've never seen the person before you just met at the store so no no kissing however um a friend family members even friends of friends they will get that kiss because even when you introducing um me to somebody for the first time hey this is my um brother this is my sister we'll be like oh nice to meet you yeah hahaha it's pretty much the same for us yes um and then tell in when I say for us I mean in Quebec that's kind of how we I guess it's the unwritten rule what about the type of kisses often times Americans are like oh like how do the kissing works like do you actually give a real kiss and I'm like well no not really but what is it in your culture so uh it's just um it's just this on the cheek sometimes you don't even have to use your lips especially when it's not family members or close friends it's just cheeks um against cheeks so like but the mouth is not actually on the person's cheek it's like both cheeks touching and you like and that's it okay one more question of all the kissing do you start with left or right cheek oh it doesn't matter it I don't think it matters I don't think so do you present the cheek when you start doing when you do it yeah oh well it's usually so spontaneous you know both people know that it's gonna happen so they're already they're ready they're like that's how I feel about it too but then when I get asked a question I'm like well let me think for a second I don't know no it's it's just I don't know it's natural it's genuine it's it just happens I think I lean on the left to present my right cheek mm hmm yeah but yeah yeah okay love it well as long as you don't make a mistake and yeah kiss hahaha kiss each other on the lips hahaha yeah then you're hahaha well one of the things that's very interesting about the the culture that you're from um it's around the weddings yes because in your culture marriage is not just about two people yes both families have to be present the groom formally ask for the bride's hand there is a there's a detailed list of things to give the bride the family of the bride and that might include clothing jewelry money uh gifts that have some symbolism and there's also what singing there's uh there are prayers and a lot of celebrations around that event of getting married yes tell me tell us why is that ceremony so important uh huh and like what does marriage really represent culturally and religiously and and for you and your family yeah so um they are very important like you said um the reason why I believe is because um marriage is not easy um sometimes for some people and then sometimes down the line if unfortunately the couple is going through some challenges um because there were witnesses when they were getting together those same weaknesses can be used to try and make things better if the couple get to the point where they can't um fix it on their own wow does it make sense yeah it does you can literally um go back to these people and when I say these people I'm talking parents uncles aunties explain the situation and they can literally help you go to the other partner and be like you know you're part of the family we love you we we were present we were witnesses when you guys were you know building this family so we want things to get better sometimes they have the best words to kind of you know remediate the situation and make sure that the couple doesn't get to the point where they wanna split or you know hate each other or whatever yeah so it's more than just the romance part yes it's really like hey you have yes my own my whole family backing you up in the same way goes the other way exactly do they have to be married or does it not matter uncles and parents it doesn't matter okay as long as they probably are they're probably typically they are typically they are but they don't have to but most of the time they are OK um another reason why this is very important is also because in Africa a child's education is not just the problem of the parents it's everybody's um everybody's concerned and sometimes um we have work you know we have things that we need to attend and um that's another reason why the whole family needs to be there because sometimes you would need them to watch over your children to go um do certain things and because they were involved in the union they'll be more than happy to you know treat your children like they they were their own and keep them whenever you can and things happen in life you can pass away something can happen to you but because again the family was involved it will be quick for uh you know somebody to claim the child and be like I watched her grow up I saw the parents getting together I'm gonna you know raise that child instead of them going to um a facility or something yeah that's beautiful yeah so really marriage is a is a family thing yeah it really is yeah I I it makes me think of the expression like it takes a village to raise a kid in a way exactly everyone brings it's an addition to what the parents are able to offer yes yes it seems like your family and his family really need to be united mm hmm despite the culture differences maybe mm hmm and despite I don't know any other things that would yeah prevent that unity exactly like what are your thoughts or have you seen always the families blending very well and your experience like so was it easy for you and your even in Africa there are cases where both families just don't get along even though they also went through the whole ceremony the whole um traditional wedding thing they just don't get along and um you will often times see those members of the family you know uncles whatever try to bring everybody together but yeah there are cases where whatever the problem is is just a bigger problem then being united so so could it be an option or could it be a a problem if the families don't get along but the couple does yes it could be it this is usually yeah and this happens a lot there are marriages that actually failed just because both families don't get along that's how important it is for us so we we will try oftentimes we will try to make it you know easier to we will try to bring everybody together but if it doesn't work it doesn't work you know and I've seen people literally split a whole marriage just for that I wouldn't do that but I've seen it I've seen people splitting just because their families don't get along that's how much of a big deal it is yeah yeah yeah what's the minimum threshold we're just talking and even that even that depends on the culture okay okay for example let's take my example my bowler side they don't ask much my Benin side they ask a lot so we followed the Benin way but what is a a lot or what is not much I think Baoule how much would they ask I don't even remember but that was not a lot it was very minimal um like a range maybe of like okay for the money itself I wanna say nothing less than let's say $50 and up oh okay $50 and up but you know everybody got their own ways yeah yeah yeah but that's like the me personally the one that's not a lot right that when you say that isn't I would consider 50,000 something yeah no I get that yeah but yeah some people are in really you know they're struggling they just can't do more than that and they'll just do that okay let's take a different approach on this so let's say I'm about I'm a someone that wants to get a bow lei lady uh huh a bow lei or Benin no Benin Benin Benin ask for more yes so I wanna get that Benin I wanna marry her she's the love of my life yeah now I need to impress her family yeah what would you recommend that I invest uh huh money wise but also gift wise money wise definitely no less than $2,000 okay yes alright cause if you do anything less than that it's not gonna be that impressive uh huh if you really want to impress you gotta do more than 2,000 okay let's go up a little and that's just for the money cause you also bring other stuff along with the money you bring some traditional uh attires traditional clothes well in my case I got the money I'm not going to disclose no no no that's okay that's okay but yeah I got the money I got some purses um jewelry um the traditional clothings um there's also some um traditional stuff these are not expensive at all but they have to be present they have like a traditional significance they have to be there um it's like nuts I really don't know how to call it in English but it's like some nuts how do you call it in English Cola Cola Cola yeah back home we call it Cola they have to be there um what does it represent anything specific um what does it represent again I don't even know oh OK but um the uncles and stuff they will lay it on the ground and it's like they will ask the ancestors especially if you lost your dad like in my situation if they agree to the union cause even if they are not physically there we will also we will still ask their permission and the positioning of the collar will tell you if the dad actually agrees or not yes oh wow that's serious yes they they can literally read it and they would they would tell you ahead of time okay if the collar is facing this way or that way it's bad if two of those five collars this is just an example of five it could be six whatever yeah are facing that way it's good or whatever then they would throw it in front of everybody in my case the collar faces the right way so I was like Whoo hahaha wow so yeah yeah you can be in for a great surprise then yes yes or not I mean or not so good yeah wow okay so you got the purses you got the money you got the traditional clothing the Cola was there the Cola and then you also have to bring something for the dad even if he passed away um just you you have to do it just like he was if he was a you know alive so you bring something for dad you bring something for mom and when I say something I mean money and clothings you can bring other stuff if you want but there's a minimum and and usually the family the bride's family will tell you what they need they will tell you what they what needs to be they will give you the required list okay that was my next question cause yes if you don't really know them yet mm hmm it could be tricky to know what to buy to make an impression yes but maybe there's like the list and once you know what the the list is but so lists are personalized and then you can go by that list so it makes it easier it makes it so much easier and and on that list they will tell you what's required like you can skip that and they'll also tell you what's optional and then you can do everything you can choose amongst the optional but the required you have to provide those and if you don't you're not gonna get the blessing to marry yeah they're gonna be a little frustrated but yeah you know everything is negotiable just like in real estate hahaha OK is that part of your culture too how like there's negotiations happening yes yes oh tell us more about that like for example during the wedding um if you give money and the bride's family feel like uh that envelope is not big enough then you gotta send your uncles and aunties to negotiate with the bride's family because if you don't provide their mother they're not gonna give you their daughters so and and there's another interesting thing during that ceremony where um the bride doesn't come out right away so while on these negotiations are being done the singing the cheering the whatever the conversations the bride is not there yet she's hidden what does she do drinking up glamming up okay maybe drinking too champagne and makeup yes okay yes um with her bridesmaid you know singing having fun and what they're gonna do to trick the groom they're gonna put like a huge maybe you can use like a drape or a piece of cloth for me me even a blanket whatever to cover maybe four ladies or three ladies or whatever mm hmm and bring them in front of the groom including you and he better choose you they gonna ask they gonna ask him which one is your bride and he better choose the right one okay so wait is it just the face that's covered like can you see the whole body a little bit the whole body and to trick you even more they would choose ladies who have the same body type yeah oh no that's crazy yeah did that happen they did it for me they did it for you yeah no way but in my case haha he was confused so he asked the advice of uh he's um big sister and the sister LED him wrong she chose the wrong person if you do they gonna ask for more money okay they gonna be like oh so you don't even know your wife well you need to put another 10,000 on the money they can just throw them out just because you made the wrong choice but fortunately for him the second time he chose he chose right but the first time he made the wrong choice cause he didn't know who to choose and he asked his um big sister to choose for him and she chose somebody else did she knew she didn't know she didn't know she didn't know she thought it was me she got tricked too she got tricked and he had to pay more money for that hahaha wow I love it yes and the the type of wedding is it like Baoule Benin or what's the name of the wedding well um it's just called the culture the dots dots it's called it's called the same thing in both cultures um mine was we had to represent both cultures and they have two different attires different food so we tried to it was very well mixed I had to wear I had to go change um remove the ballet attire and then put on the Benin attire and guess what his family also wanted me to wear the Burkina Faso attire so I had to change I I changed myself maybe three times three or four times yeah was it just the one that was not even the civil wedding yet yeah that was not even the oh you got a civil we haven't done that yet coming up but coming up and then you're gonna have what kind of wedding in the future um yeah the civil one the legal one but the reason the main reason why we haven't done that yet is because we wanna do it back home because we feel like if we do it in America there will be more people to bring over here and you know with the visa it's sometimes difficult so it's gonna be easier to bring the people from here to Africa because they won't have much visa issues you know yeah so you need a visa or they need a visa to come to America oh yeah absolutely okay yeah and sometimes they don't get it and would it be a Baule Benin it would be both it would be both we have to represent and all of it all of it all three of it oh that's beautiful though yeah it's gonna be an amazing wedding yeah yeah wow I love it uh okay well before we're almost coming to an end but I wanna bring this back to our listeners mm hmm one of the questions we got is how do you raise children to love their heritage in a country where they are surrounded by a different culture every day mm hmm well um I wouldn't say it's easy but um I just try my best to represent all sides because I'm aware of the fact that one day they will become completely American you know so I I definitely don't skip that education that culture I bring on the table I bring food from you know all three cultures I want them to I make them explore everything so they can make better choices later so we just keep it genuine natural we speak whatever language comes first whether it's French English whatever and we just let them grow up in that confusing yet beautiful environment and then um yeah they'll make their own choices later yeah they will yeah what are you most afraid of losing culturally I guess the um um the fact that um back home we were very um we were usually doing things as a group like I mentioned earlier I feel like in America people are very solo riding um people are very you know by themselves until there's like a family reunion or whatever and that's one thing that broke my heart when I first came to America going to the grocery store and seeing somebody who is um very very very old doing their own groceries by themselves um I didn't grow up like that back home if you get to that age you'll probably be at your children's place somewhere you always have somebody in the family you know taking care of you or whatever and I definitely don't want to lose that community thing um cause me being in America especially my first now now I have a man a whole family I'm not by myself of course I have my hands full but before that I was very much by myself living in you know by myself in my apartment and I feel like this was starting to make me um introvert introverted you know I was starting to enjoy it which is not how I grew up you know I was always surrounded and I don't wanna lose that I definitely want my children to grow up knowing that they will always have somebody around mom dad somebody will always be there that's one thing I don't wanna lose yeah definitely that that's very good I I love hearing you speak on that mm hmm how do you think the fact that you're most of your family is in another continent how does that affect this environment that you're trying not to lose yeah so um again it it was affecting me a lot when I was by myself but now I don't really feel it'cause again I have so many people in my house so um but before yeah I was crying sometimes just because I'm not built to be by myself it's it's just my um personality I'm a people person I love being around people always laughing and having fun and stuff like that so me being by myself for years was very hard and with the jet lag it was sometimes difficult so um to have my mom or my sister on the phone because um if I need them around seven PM guess what it's five hours later over there so it would you know it was during the night they were probably sleeping or something and I would just serve me a glass of wine and and cry just because I miss them but um it's great right now'cause again I have children now I usually have my mom coming to America for a few months then she goes she comes back it's either my mom or my aunt and my husband he's amazing we besties we we do everything together and plus I have friends too so yeah it's it's great right now that's great yeah and on the flip side what are you most excited for your children to gain with the type of exposure you're giving them um I'm excited because I feel like they would be very very open minded uh huh um because they have so many cultures to deal with you know they know the African side and we also have a goal where we wanna take them back home every two years maybe every year if possible because again we don't want them to lose that aspect we don't want them to lose that background plus the the other amazing part is the American culture which is so different so so different so to me if you somehow get used to both I mean what a great plus I mean absolutely I'm excited about who they're gonna be with all this cultural aspect I can't wait to see who they're gonna be what they're gonna be in the future to witness their growth exactly through I mean all with that mix yeah the mix that you were able to give them that's beautiful really your story reminds us that language it's not just communication it's inheritance that food is memory and accents are our strength yeah and we should honor them absolutely I've Learned to through your story that home can be in different places yes and sometimes in French sometimes in English sometimes in Franglish and sometimes in Baoulay yes but if you love this episode uh share with someone that's raising bilingual children uh huh either navigating immigration or just want to expose themselves to more culture and in the meantime keep exploring thank you for tuning in to from where to here if you enjoy this episode be sure to hit subscribe leave a review and share it with someone who loves discovering new cultures follow us on Instagram at from where to hear pod for exclusive updates behind the scenes moments and a peek at upcoming guests until next time keep learning keep connecting and keep celebrating the beauty of languages and cultures adiós