S2 Ep 08 – Autumn Action & Prem Rugby Passion

A whirlwind weekend gave us everything: Saints igniting Franklin’s Gardens with 30 minutes of pure velocity, Saracens scrambling to recover, Tigers and Sale trading test-level shots, and the PWR roaring back with pace and bite. We dive straight into the England squad for the Autumn Nations and ask the real selection questions: stack the 9-10-12 with Northampton’s chemistry, or ride Ford’s control and cold-blooded decision-making? Build a back row for collisions with Underhill, or tilt toward line-out height and mobility with Pepper? We break down what each choice changes in contact, exits, and scoring on transition.

Across the Autumn calendar, we spotlight the fixtures that will shape the narrative: Ireland’s ageing core against a surging New Zealand in Chicago, France and South Africa in a collision of kick pressure and ruck speed, and a demanding run for England that tests adaptability against Australia, Argentina, Fiji and the All Blacks. Expect a clear view on how to attack the Wallabies, why discipline beats Los Pumas, the blueprint to contain Fiji’s broken-field danger, and the precision required to live with New Zealand.

Club rugby delivered its own headlines. Exeter look refreshed and dangerous, with Henry Slade purring and the pack fitter and sharper. Gloucester’s issues are structural—line-out accuracy, maul defence and belief—while Harlequins got their fast-track bounce and Newcastle need a reset. Bath’s bench power told late against a spirited Bristol, and Tigers unlocked their finishers by grinding Sale into narrow shapes before striking wide with Freddie Steward’s hands and Adam Radwan’s pace. Meanwhile, the PWR showed exactly how the game should look at speed, with Gloucester-Hartpury ruthless and Maud Muir pounding through contact.

Come for the selection debate, stay for the details: set-piece strikes, turnover try maps, and why international coaches should steal club combinations when the chemistry is this hot. If you’re enjoying the show, tap follow, share it with a rugby friend, and leave a review to help more fans find us.

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Transcript

Banter, Wins And A Pasta Delivery

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Welcome to the Rux and We're back with the Fans Favourite Rugby Podcast. Talking all things rugby and as ever, joined by the fans favourite rugby podcast host. It's me, Dave, joined as ever by Rory. Rory, say hello to the listener. You know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Hello. Hello, David. Hello, listeners. How are you? Good to see you, David. Oh, you're not gonna let the listener reply? Sorry. How are you, listener? Insert pause here. Excellent, thank you. Great news. Glad to you, David.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

I'm very well, I'm very well, thank you. Um I'm pleased to report I'm over the ailments that had me completely knocked out last week. Um I'm feeling I'd say 95% better. Um, you know, can't ask for much more than that. Only 5% more. Uh how are you, Rory?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I'm alright. Uh Saturdays for the Lions. The game uh didn't go ahead on Saturday, as uh the Oppo couldn't get a team together.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Um so we got a buy in the cup. So that's um that's a silver lining, but uh we had a very good team, so it would have been nice to have played the game.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Yeah, yeah, it's always a bit always a bitter pill to swallow, I find.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

It is, but to make up for it, I went down to the rugby club to watch the ones play with a huge huge 43-27 win. Of North Walsham of all teams.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Not North Walsham.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

They David, they were 27-12 down at one point and came back to win 43-27. Let me put that in some context for you. That is a 31-point swing.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

That's quite some context. What would you if you were to put your finger on one particular reason for why that happened? What would that one particular reason be?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Um, they managed to tire out the North Walsham pack. Our pack's quite lightweight in comparison, so we were struggling at scrum time, um, but managed to sort of run them around the park enough uh to get the upper hand. And then the kick started to stick, started to go to the right places just to put put them under pressure, and then just fitness and speed told in the end, really. Um but and it was an excellent turnaround because it was looking at half time, we were all sort of looking at each other going, Oh well, this is this is not going to plan in the slightest. Um, so they were 22-12 down at half time. North Warsham scored early in the second half, and then they we kicked a penalty from I don't know, 35-40 metres out, something like that. Yeah. Just to get going, then just the momentum just seemed to switch almost instantly. Wow. Passes started sticking, and uh the boys scored some good tries in the end, so an excellent performance by the ones.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Well, and uh there I was thinking it was going to be a perfect platform for Roy to say it was because of an inspirational um section in the matchday program.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

As to Well, a a huge boon for the for the podcast. We've made it all the way to uh the Westcliff matchday program now. Um page 26 or something like that. Oh, I mean it's prime real estate. And uh if any other uh rugby teams around the country want to uh put a section into their programs, be you uh at in the sort of London and South East premiere sort of level, or be you you know prevelous. Yeah, we'll take it. We would be more than happy to provide a blurb.

England Squad Headlines And Selection Calls

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So yeah. What a what a week for the podcast, and uh what a week for the podcast hosts, that's all I'll say. You know, I'm feeling 95% better. We've already got to enjoy watching the ones. Oh, does it get better than that? Uh but let's live our best lives. Let's canter on and hope the podcast can keep up the momentum of this generational positive start for the podcast that very rarely happens. Uh, we're gonna be talking England squad for the Awesome Nations, the Awesome Nations in general, the return of the PWR, and our usual canter through Prem Rugby round five, uh, polishing off with our teams of the week and some weekend predictions. How does that sound, Rory? Does that sound like something you'd listen to? Do you know what I think I would? Well, that's good because uh you're quite a big part of this. Um so let's start off. England squad announced for the upcoming Quilter Nations Cup, or you know, to you and I, the Autumn Internationals. Uh what did you make of the squad? There's two uncapped players, the rest are returning players to the squad, Jack Kenningham and Noah Calorey getting the nod um ahead of Adam Radwan, which I think I've seen a couple of Leicester fans have an issue with. Uh Wonder War.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

No, no, they they wouldn't, David. They're a pretty rude uh pretty uh meek and reserved bunch in my experience.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

No, yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Um, I can see why you'd be aggrieved if if you were uh a Radouan fan, which actually I am, and I think he's you know, I think he's a brilliant player, but if you have to accept that the spot that he was effectively competing for in that squad was sixth choice winger, which is effectively in this case, it's the opportunity to bring uh a 19-year-old with a massive ceiling in and just stick him in in the environment for an extended period of time. Yeah, you know, I to be honest, I would be pretty amazed if he got any minutes on the pitch over the next four weeks. He may well end up going still going off and playing with the A-team. Yeah, that's what I suspect. But um, this is just an opportunity for them to keep him in the environment to see how he reacts, how he reacts within an extended um time on the training paddock with the best players in the country. So I can see why you'd be annoyed if you if you want Radwan in there because he's been brilliant and continues to be. We'll talk about that later. But um I think it's I I actually think it's quite a good move if you think you've got genuinely got a generational talent on your hands. I think it's probably the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Get him in the environment, get him used to it, get him to see what that what that looks like to be around all those other world-class players or only do him a world of good. So, yes, I completely understand. Now I hear, Rory, from the woodwork that you've put together a little predicted selection based off of what that squad was. So why don't you uh run us through what you uh would be doing if you were Steve Borthwick up against Australia this weekend?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah, I mean, so this is stress, this this is what I would do. Um it's not what I think Steve Borthwick would do. The reports are that we're gonna see Freeman at 13. Yes, I've seen that.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

I've seen those reports.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah. Um, but it had it been up to me, based on um very little inside knowledge and not being the head coach of England, this is what I would do. Yeah, huge caveat. I think uh I think one of the uh obvious ones, the front row sort of picks itself, probably the front five, yeah, to be honest, picks itself. So it's Genj, Cowandicke, Stuart, Chesumatojo. Yeah. Um you could make the case for George over Cowandicke if you want, but I think with this Australia team, you probably need Cowandicke's physicality and and carrying power, so I'd probably start at him.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Oh, my front doorbell. Bear with caller. Just some fresh pasta. Just need to get it in the fridge, listener.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

David uh just taking delivery of pasta because uh like all grounded and relatable people, he's um he's having pasta delivered to the door now. Um the refrigerator because it's it's fresh pasta, not the dried brand. It's uh that is fresh fresh. Just talking about how relatable you are, David. Getting fresh pastas delivered to the door.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Uh I will add the caveat that it is not my subscription package. It is a subscription package that I've asked the other half numerous times to cancel, but they keep sending us chocolate brownies, so I'm fine with that as well. So where were we?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Uh so heading into the uh the back row. Yes. So the the options are quite open-ended here, I think. Um you have to balance the need to keep your line out competitive. Australia are pretty good at stealing line outs with more carrying power, where we're with the loss of Willis, obviously we're we're struggling a bit there. Yeah. But the temptation was to start with Cunningham South at six. Okay. Um, but I'm actually I'm gonna start Pepper at six. Okay. Underhill at seven, Bern Earl at eight. I think Guy Pepper's got enough height, um, has proved he's an effective enough line out option to to fill that.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

His carrying his carrying game is actually better than he gets credit for as well. I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, I think he I think he's a much better carrier than people are talking about. Um, and I still have a question mark over Cunningham South's ability to do it for an extended period in a test match. I could be wrong, but part of me still wonders, is he is he still a 30-minute test player rather than a 60, 70, 80 minute? And that's that's still a question mark for me. I think that's fair. So uh Underhill gets in for me. I th I I mean Curry's in the squad, and the the rule of thumb is if Tom Curry is there, you pick Tom Curry. But the man hasn't played any minutes since the Lions, really, and at some point his body's got to start breaking down. It's not possible for a man to keep recovering from major injuries in record time. Yeah, and Sam Underhill's playing brilliantly well. So I'm gonna give Tom Curry a week or two to rest up. Um, and I'm gonna start Sam Underhill so he can just level people. And I to be honest, he's maybe the only man I trust to be able to stop Will Skelton in his tracks.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

Uh yeah, that yeah, him and a bulldozer.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are the only two things. You either you either pick uh literal heavy machinery or you pick Sam Underhill. Yeah, yeah, those are the only two things that can stop Will Skelton.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Yeah. Okay. Uh tell me about your halfbacks.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

I'm gonna start Mitchell and Finn Smith. Really tended to pick George Ford. Um and with limited prep time, I could see Borthwick picking Ford because he's he's the um the steadiest option, I think, that you can sort of guarantee will will perform at test level with limited prep. But I'm actually gonna go with a Mitchell Finn Smith Dingwall axis. Good choice. Good choice. Um Dingwall, I think,'s been brilliant so far this season from what I've seen from obviously just signed a new Saints deal, which I'm sure you're very pleased about.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

Very pleased about. Keep the good news coming, Northampton Saints, because I'm enjoying this steady stream of re-signing of very key and influential players.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah, absolutely. And in the absence of a um uh a more powerful 12 option at the moment, you know, had Seb Atkinson still been fit and been in there, maybe you could have been tempted after the summer. Um is tempting because I'm gonna put Lawrence at 13, and it is tempted to have the Geromo Lawrence um centre pairing there, but first up against Australia feels risky to throw a Jomo in with that. So I'm going with Dingwall because I think with no furbank to play at fullback, Deward for me has to come in playing exceptionally well. Um, but although his playmaking and link up play has massively come on, he's really worked on it, and actually a lot of evidence of that at the weekend. I still think you're gonna want someone in that back line who's a little bit more comfortable shifting the ball. The other option would have maybe been Lawrence at twelve, Slade to 13. Again, Slade's been brilliant, we'll talk about that a bit later on. But I think balancing all options, I want the Northampton connection 9, 10, 12. Um, because you also can then almost guarantee the ability to get the best out of Tommy Freeman, who I'm picking at 14 with Manife Wabosa at 11. Yep. Um I think but on the balance of probabilities, one that I think is is almost certainly not going to happen is Guy Pepper at six, where I would be more I think it's more likely to see Chesham or Coles there. Yeah. Um maybe cunning himself, but again, I'm I'm not convinced that even Borfit believes he's uh he's got enough fitness for the for that game for to start. Yeah, yeah, considering he's not been doing a full 80 of Harlequin since he got injured a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, exactly. So I think it's more likely to see Chesham or Coles there, but I would pick Pepper based off how he's been going this season. On the bench, Jamie George, Finn Baxter, Joe Hayes, Chandler Cunning himself, and Henry Pollock. I'm gonna go for a 5-3. Yeah. So Spencer, Marcus, and Tom Roebuck. But I could see there being a 6-2. I could see, depending on the makeup of his starting back row, I could see uh a Coles or an underhill being on the bench if he starts Curry and cunning him south or Chesham at six, who knows? Big headline. There's a lot there's a lot of ifs and buts, and we should be hearing quite soon about the the squad.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

So uh yeah, big big headline to any Rory fans out there as well. Uh he has decided to omit George Ford from his 23.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, uh it's it it was a heavy, heavy decision, really weighed on my mind. But um I just think on the balance of balance of everything, I think the club connection from Saints slightly outweighs the guaranteed quality you get from George Ford, just on the basis of trying to get every the best out of every other player. Um but that being said, it's um it could go either way, really. It's it's you know, I think Ford could well start, and to be honest, I'd be quite happy with that.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

He is the man in possession of the shirt after Argentina tall. Yeah, absolutely. And Borthwick has been known to kind of honour that to a degree. Uh okay, no, I don't mind it, Rory. I don't mind it. I'm not gonna argue with you. Uh I'm a big fan of Pepper. I like the makeup of that back row. Any any back row that's got under Hill in, I generally like the makeup of. Um, and obviously I like the Saints connection. Um, so yeah, I'm I I'm not gonna argue with you too much. Uh I haven't got my own version, uh, but then again, we have got a lot to cover in this podcast, so probably for the best. Uh Autumn Nations in general, Rory. Uh thoughts or feelings around the tournament. Are you excited for the next four weeks?

SPEAKER_01 14:01

I'm I am very I'm very excited for for England's fixtures in particular. Uh I think Australia, Argentina, Fiji, New Zealand is a really good quartet of fixtures. Yeah. Um would have been nice to have South Africa as a as a game as well, but uh, all things being equal, I'm pretty happy with that. Uh Ireland playing New Zealand in Chicago this week, I'm very excited by. I think that's going to be um I think that's gonna be a real fever pitch of a game. I'm I'm quite looking forward to watching that.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

And I think it's gonna be first of many tests going to be deployed out in the States to try and get them all excited for the World Cup coming their way.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, which you can see why they'd do that. Um other big highlight games, France, South Africa next week. I think that's gonna be an absolute humdinger. Yeah, very much looking forward to that. Um Wales, I think, are possibly in for a tough time again. News today, uh Tolupa Fallatao is out of the Autumn Internationals. Oli Cracknell getting cracked well deserved, yeah. Well, well deserved, but um I think that's a real hammer blow to Wales' chances of picking up many wins given their fixtures. Um but I think you know, with with England playing some of the some of the big teams, but the other real highlights for me, yeah. Ireland, South Africa, I think will be a good one. Uh, France, Australia could be another cracker as well, given how Australia's resurged. But you know, there's there's a couple of smaller what are Italy's fixtures like Italy, well Italy have got South Africa in a couple of weeks. Uh they've got Australia next week. So they will be they will be targeting a big scalp this this autumn. Some interesting selections in their squad.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Um come on, Todaro.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah, Todaro obviously, and Apoku Yamphi. That's it, who's still playing for the Bath University team at the moment, but it's a huge human from Milton Keynes Rugby Club, where I played my very first ever bit of rugby.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

And we've tried a familiar. Yeah, heavy, Italian, yeah, athletic, talented.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All that all that kind of good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Um, so yeah, but I think I think Italy will be targeting a scalp. Not sure they'll get one, but it'll be interesting to see how they go. Ireland will be looking for a resurgence, but they have got some real questions marks on their squad as well at the moment, I think.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Yes, it'll be interesting to see how Ireland go. I I I don't have a I have a feeling, is it too early to say, are we gonna start to see the decline in Ireland?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Well, I think you write them off at the at your peril, but it's gonna happen at some point. At some point, at some point there has to be a decline, doesn't there?

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Well, this this this you know world famous, world-class Leinster production line. I I'm not seeing the fruits of that at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Pretty sticky start to the season for them. Um and yeah, I mean players like Sam Prendergast, have they really hit the heights that people were expecting? No, there's your answer. I just think I I do just think there seems to be a bit of a gap at the moment, and I think maybe that's coming back to bite them. They just haven't been able to find an actual conveyor belt. They found a very good generation, but there's not been a conveyor belt of talent coming through.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Are they just whales? But like Dixie. Are you whales in disguise? Because they they hung on to their golden generation for as long as they could, and we all know where they are now. Ireland have held on to this golden generation for quite a long time now, and there's a lot of players in their 30s. I'm not sure what's behind it in terms of quality being of the same level. I'm not saying it's right now, but let's just not ignore the inevitable.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I yeah, I you know, you look at the age of some of the players, Bundi Eckey's 37, you know, Thurlong's 32, 33 now, Type Burns in his 30s, yeah, Jack Conan's well into his thirties. I'm just not sure. James can give some parks well into his thirties, Hansen I think's 31 now. James Lowe, he's his 30s. James Lowe, I think,'s just turned 30, 29, 30.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Oh, so he may as well may as well be retired.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Um I mean, yeah, pretty much dead.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Pretty much dead in the well, as a winger.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

But I I would be concerned that there hasn't been any real challenges to those starting players.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, Rory. Um, yeah, it's gonna make for an interesting autumn. Hard to call who comes out on top, other than well, it's probably gonna be South Africa. Um but hey, I'm looking forward to watching it all. Do you know what's really annoying? I really wish there was like an autumn. I know there is like a super brew predictor uh uh predictor earlier, and I know there is like a fantasy, but in the old Six Nations app, there's there's the facility to run an autumn nations fantasy game, and it's just it just says the game will be open soon. It starts in a few days. There's not enough time for us to set up a league, people. I know you love your fantasy rugby. We love going on there and competing with you, but it's just not giving us the facilities. How annoying. But I'll move on. I'll move on from my personal gripe with the Cultor Nations series app. Another competition returned this weekend, Rory.

PWR Returns With Statement Wins

SPEAKER_01 19:20

The PW. The PWR roared back up this weekend. Um and some interesting, interesting results. An absolute huntinger between Harlequin's Women and Loughborough Lightning, 5242. Your money's worth if you went to that one.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Yeah, some high-scoring games.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Yeah. Uh Holly Hson debuting for the Sales Sharks, getting a win. Tigers to the Sword. Yeah. Exeter beaten Ealing Trailfinders, not sure that was necessarily on the cards. And then on Sunday in the televised game, Gloucester Hartbury Women beat Saracens Women 40-14. And I saw this game, and Gloucester Hartbury looked, despite some of the turnover in players and coaches, etc., looked in rude health.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Maud Muir in particular was an absolute bowling ball. Um just hand them the fourth title, I reckon.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Uh I they're gonna be tough to stop on this, on the evidence of this first weekend.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Yeah, considering Saracens are supposed to be probably the own the other the other team at the top, let's say.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

It was a strong Saries team, you know. The likes of Sophie DeGoody was and Corrigant, people like that were in that team, and never really got close to them.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

That one run by Maud Muir, who just absolutely flattened Packer. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah, but poor old party packers think in maybe it is time to hang out.

Saints Blitz Saracens Under Lights

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Yeah, maybe, maybe. But very excited for the PWR to return. First round of fixtures really set up um, hopefully, a really fantastic competition. Really gonna be keeping an eye on crowd numbers just to see if we're gonna see a bit of a boost thread roses success boom. Uh, hopefully that positivity keeps coming. Um, and we'll we'll keep an eye on that competition and see how that fares as it rolls on because we love the PWR here at Rux Balls Overbook. And if only we had the capacity to talk about that many games along with the Prem. Unfortunately, we don't have that capacity, so we've only got the time to delve deep into Prem rugby this week. And we're gonna talk round five, Rory. Let's get into it, then let's get right into it, and we're starting somewhere I really enjoy starting, and that's at Franklin's Gardens on a Friday night. Under the floodlights, Northampton Saints up against their old foe Saracens.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Um not your foe? Because it was your old foe's Tigers the other week.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

I'll get back to you on that one.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Uh this is your old foe's Bath, your old foe's Bristol, your old foe's Gloucester, your old foe's Exeter, your old foe's Quinns. Yeah, old foes sail.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Red Bulls? But that's only because they're new.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

No, because you were talking about how much how much they're your old foes because of your difficulties travelling there.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Yeah, they're all our old foes. And that's what comes with being a traditional club, uh, steeped in history. Um where do we start with this game, Rory?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Well, maybe you should give us a little summary of how this all played out because this um this seesawed a little.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

It did see so a little. So the game it started off from a Northampton Saints fan perspective. A bajillion miles per hour. It was free-flowing, it was fantastic, it was beautiful to watch. Northampton were putting Saracens to the sword with ease, running through them, cutting them like ribbons, uh, and it was magnificent. Uh, Saracens looked like they were still in the changing rooms, they looked absolutely shell-shocked, they didn't know what to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

I would say first 25-30 minutes, Saints were unplayable.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

They were. They were the only thing Saints could do differently would would have been to put more points on the board. Uh, I think that was the only thing that perhaps they might be a little bit annoyed about from that first 30 minutes. Everything else was textbook, just it was if you if you want to watch some free-flowing attacking rugby and shapes, just go watch Northampton's first 25-30 minutes. It was brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Can I ask you a couple of questions about that 21st 30?

SPEAKER_03 23:21

You can.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Was that the best Vander Mesh just played so far, or most effective he's been, and was that because of the style of team you were up against, do you think?

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Uh, it was definitely his best game in the black, green, and gold of Northampton, 100%. And I I've perhaps it is a little bit of the opposition. I also think he is growing into this. There's been lots of stuff going on offline where his wife's been posting about how proud she is that he's he kind of lost himself when he was in France, and she's seen a different side to him. He's coming out of his shell, he's loving life in Northampton. Perhaps we're seeing someone who's genuinely enjoying his rugby again, and that usually gets the best out of these sorts of players. Uh, I think Northampton are figuring out how to use him effectively. Um, and I I think it's just perhaps it's just lots of things all lining up, and it's just hopefully signs of things to come because if Northampton can figure out how to use him effectively like they did in this game, that bodes very well for the rest of the season for Northampton.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Um I I thought it was by by some distance the most impressed I've been by him in the first well, I mean, really the the whole hour he played, but certainly that first 30 minutes he was he was by some distance his best. Yeah. So he's someone who I'm a little less impressed by as a sign-in is Fisketti.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

I think he's scrum time.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Right at Scrum Time. Yeah, scrum time is a world worked over by his compatriot Riccioni. Yeah. Um he's you know, he's he's quite a nimble prop, so he's quite useful in the loose still. But I thought I thought he would be much more effective at scrum time. I thought he was gonna be a genuine force.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

So I have a theory on this. I I perhaps think so. We've got a new scrum coach who's come in to replace Shaw Vergson. We've also got Van der Mesht who's packing down at tight head lock. I wonder whether there's a bit of unbalancing at the moment going on because there's gonna be a lot of weight coming from behind Van der Mesht going through the tight head. Yeah, the other lock in this game was Lockett, who is a bit of a lump himself, but is usually Coles. Um perhaps my my theory is that the scrum just isn't quite balanced in the sense of there's a lot of weight coming through the tight head, not so much the loose head, and maybe we're still figuring out that how that works with a new scrum coach. Uh, but I'm quite right. Like the scrum time has not been as um strong from Fisketti as I thought it would. I've I've still been happy with his work around the park, so his work rate's still right up there. Uh his tackles per minute are still up there with the best. Uh, he gets turnovers uh and he is good as a link up player as well. But you're quite right to point out that we were expecting more from him at the set piece. Give him time. I think with a new scrum coach, we're still figuring out to use Van Damesh to perhaps second half of the season we might see the Saints Scrum be a weapon again. Uh that's my that's my theory. That's my theory anyway. Um but you're you're right to point it out. Uh the rem Then after that point, after the first 30 minutes, Saracens. I think what we saw was Northampton absolutely had a perfect game plan to make sure Saracens didn't do to them uh that they'd done the previous week to sale. Uh full credits, if anything, out of respect to Calorey, there was an immediate game plan to take him out of the game, which worked perfectly. Uh he wasn't able to do anything, and nothing nothing against Calorie as much as fans would make you think. I think Northampton had a brilliant plan for him. Um so Saracens reverted to Saracens of old physical, upfront, punch you in the face.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

I'll tell you what I thought was the big turning point when this when I think it was Burke scored their first tries in the off the line out. Yeah, and that was effectively the first line out that Theodan got right. Yeah, he his darts up to that point had been a bit small, and to be honest, they didn't get much better after that. No, no, but he got this one right, and they set up the fate mall and then popped and went. Um Finn Smith misses the tackle on Nick Tomkins. Uncharacteristically weak tackling, pretty uncharacteristic and pretty poor. Um, but that gives the opportunity for Burke to then canter in. Up to that point, you'd kept Saris pretty much out of the game, but partly because of Sarre's inability to hold on to a line out.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

And then from there, they just sort of get a bit of a bounce. You know, Jack Bracken leaves Tommy Freeman for dead on a grub a kick off Burke, which is a really nice bit of skill. And you could just but you could just see the difference in acceleration over three to five metres. Oh, he was rapid, isn't he? Absolutely rapid. I mean, Tommy Freeman is obviously rapid, and which he showed for the break he made for I want to say was it Hendy's try? The first one he breaks through two tackles down the right and just they spread it all the way left.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Um, but off the first, off the mark, the Bracken boys are rageous.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

I'll be honest, I think both Charlie and Jack had good games for Saracens. I think they were probably the ones that stood out.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

I thought Jack struggled a little bit with the kicking game. I think Saints kicked very well, and uh Jack struggled a bit with it. Tell you who really struggled though was Max Malens. He's he's not had the return to Saracens that everyone was expecting, has he? Looking out of sorts.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

Um it's not the only game he's been found out of.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

No, it's not. It's not. He's been pretty average for a lot of the season, and I think they're crying out to get Elliot Daly back in that team because at the moment Malens is looking a bit of a liability back there for Pearson's try, where he misses it entirely, and Pearson dots down. Another player who's had a really good game. I think he'll be one that England will be interested in again. Um, but he he made several mistakes. I think it was Freeman's last try. Uh yeah, he spilled it and then uh Finn Smith cross-fields to Tommy Freeman. But it comes off another Max Malin spill in the backfield. It's you know, he's given up, I reckon, 14 points in that game from mistakes. Yeah, and that's just the obvious ones. That's just the obvious ones. But if you you know, call it 14 points, well look at the scoreline 4331, take 14 off Saints there, and what you know, it's yeah, so he's he's actually costing games, arguably. Um I don't like to dig out an individual that much because he's you know I do like Max Malins as a player Germany, but he looks out of sorts.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

He does, and he doesn't look like the same Max Malins who left Saracens to join Bristol. I know he's had a lot of injury problems, maybe it's just gonna take him a bit longer to get back up to speed. Um but I would say on the Saracen's selection, I want to encourage them to keep selecting these young backs. I know Malins doesn't really f doesn't really fit into that bracket, but I I'm very much enjoying the Saracen selection policy at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Um No, I think I look I think Charlie Bracken um when when the pack started going forwards after that first thirty minutes and Charlie was able to to take advantage of that he looks really dangerous. Lots of little snipes, very quick off the base.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Jack Bracken, look, he you know he's gonna learn his trade off off the kicking game. Um but we talked about the other week about his his actual physical defence is very good. Master in the backfield is a slightly different prospect, and it's not an area that you or I are any any kind of experts in.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Um so I you know I'm not gonna dig him out for for not being world-class at that yet, but you could certainly see the potential. And Noah Calore, look, you know, sometimes young players will always need a bit of a reality reality check, particularly after such a barnstorming performance last week. Yeah. And a reality check that said, you know, Saints marked you out the game on this one, you need to find a way to get into it.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

And you know, he'll have probably come off that game. I think he came off with a bit of a bit of a knock in the end for Ann at all, but um, you know, he'll he'll have come off that game a bit more battle-hardened, a bit sm a bit more battle-hardened and a bit smarter than he was the week before, where he'll now know, all right, if I want to actually go on, yeah, I need to find a way to you're not gonna score five tries every week.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Some of his defense, so he he he does some qu he did some quite nice tackling on Todaro.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

He did, he got he got a jackal in there as well, got a jackal penalty on him. Um he did get it wrong, I think, for uh I think it was Hendy's try where he he misread it and Finn Smith grubing behind him.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Um, but again, you know, that's managing in the backfield. Uh he did get a penalty off Todaro for when he jumped in by about 40 feet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah, we we did get to see one leap at Franklin's Gardens.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

So yeah, you know, I think he's gonna he he'll have to find a way to make sure he's in games week on week.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Yeah. So if you were if you were Steve Borthwick, would you want to be harnessing that 30 minutes of England of well of Northampton for England? Because I I don't I don't I don't see any other team playing with that sort of free-flow attacking shape.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Well, I this is this is why I went with the selection I did, which is very heavy on the Saints team, because I think in Tess rugby, particularly over the last few years, the ability to uh strike off set piece moves and the ability to strike off turnovers are the two strongest things that Saints do. Um they're lethal on the transition and they're lethal off a set piece move. They just they just pick good options. I think realistically you need to try and harness that. Um if you think you're gonna be just in a kicking slog fest with lots of tight carries and just territorially kicking the ball, yeah, pick George Ford. Yeah, but my gut feel against Australia is you're gonna be playing off transition and you're gonna be playing off set pieces when you get the opportunity. For me, that says Saints.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

Yeah, I think so. One one thing that small cause for concern as a Saints fan was once again our penalty count was very high. Uh we still we're still uh dangerously lurking around the offside line far too often. Um but I think I think it's coming from the fact that teams realise that the only real way to beat Northampton is to keep it tight and just keep knocking down that door round the fringes.

Chiefs Rise, Gloucester Slide

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Which you're not dealing with. Which we're not dealing with because say, you know, Saracens for that sort of well, it was probably less than 20 minutes where they got really on top and took the lead back up until after Tizard's try. And we got another yellow card. Got another yellow card, and really they just knocked they just knocked the door down. Uh Gonzalez's try just comes through. He powers through Vandermesht and Henry Pollock for his try. Quite poor attempts from both of them, actually. Um Tizard's try just comes from pressure and just powering over in the tight. Um Chap Bracken's try comes from some really good carrying work and just drawing the defence in and giving the opportunity to kick in the backfield. You know, it wasn't really until Saints then make a half break and Richioni gets himself binned for being offside.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

That's that's what swung the momentum back, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Yeah. Up up until that, it was actually looking like you could have lost control of that game quite quickly.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

So what you're saying is Richione pointing to the stars over the badge on the Saracens shirt is what gave Northampton the impetus to go and whoop their asses. Well, it certainly jeed the crowd up.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

I don't mind it. I like it. It's fine. It's fine. I I like that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

It may as well have been pointing at some asterisks, but you know, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

I uh I'm not as worried about that as uh other teams are. Um I would also say Charlie Bracken drops an absolute dolly to to run it in at a point when it could have swung the momentum back the other way. That was a big moment for that was a big moment.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

That was that was that was to Jack Bracken, his brother, wasn't it? Um it was that would have that would have been from Jack to Charlie. Yeah, that could have been a lovely storyline.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Um a quick word from you on Tommy Freeman, David.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Tommy Freeman is the best winger in Europe. Fact. Tell me about it, Penno. I'm picking Freeman every day. Over both of them. Over both of them. The man is unreal. He's I love him. He's on red hot form. He's I I don't think there's a weakness to his game at this stage. Other than maybe other than maybe in a five-meter foot race with Jack Bracken.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

It's a bit cool, but you have to say at the moment he is on red hot form and he looks brilliant for it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

He carried like 150 metres, he made like seven line breaks. Like he God knows how many defenders. Like he he looked like he was playing with a point in this game to say, I'm surrounded by all these youngsters, but don't forget who the best of the best is, and that's me. There's a reason I was on the line. And he's only uh he's still young, like he's yeah, he's still got ten years in him if he wants to.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Uh people because Pollock's in that team, people talk about Tommy Freeman as being like this old hand, yeah, and he's like 23, 24.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

People forget how young that Saints team still is. Like they're most of them are in their mid-twenties. Um yeah, I I love Tommy Freeman. I'm so glad we've locked him down long term on a new contract. I I I genuinely think he is the best winger in Europe, and I genuinely think he could be the best winger in the world. Um, he's got it in him. Because he's he's got everything right. He's got everything in it.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

I'd be right. Although reports are that he will be playing 13 this weekend.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Yeah, so maybe I just have to decide he's gonna be the best 13 in the world instead. Um whatever it is, he's so good. I think he's he's turning into one of those players that you just put him on the pitch, it doesn't matter what number is in the back of his shirt. Um, he will do bits no matter where you play him. So yeah, I I quite like him. I think that comes across.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Um well uh so that game that game finalised finished uh Saints 43, Saris 31. Yep, and Saints' magnificent start of the season continues.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Hey, if you told me at the start of the season that we'll take that first block of five games undefeated and top of the table, I'd have bit your hand off Rory. Um couldn't be happier.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Yeah, I think you you're in entitled to be the happiest boy on the podcast because we are now moving on to Chiefs against Gloucester.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Where we have one particularly unhappy boy on the podcast, I must say.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Such an unhappy boy. Um we get some of the headlines out of the way. Uh Will Joseph and James Vent are both going off injured again.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Was that a sign of them being rushed back, do you think? Because they both went off with Knox the week before.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

I just think it's a sign of whatever curse has been put on Gloucester this season, just continuing. Um, so you know, I said it last week that it's it's a complete catastrophe and the season's over for us. Um trying to find any kind of silver linings. There's probably two from this game from a Gloucester perspective. Uh Will Knight on debut, couple of nice touches, um, a couple of nice tackles, but you know, ultimately 18 years old, so yeah, limited, limited what he can do. And Jack Cockgreve with a lovely break. Um probably should have got a try. Manio Feel Beto wrestles him manfully off the line, but that is what Manny Feel Beta can do.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Um that's it. So those those are positives. Outside of that, it's just negative after negative, really. The defence is still abysmal. The Chiefs carved carved us open pretty much at will. Uh, our defence has gone to pop. We can't stop and want to save our lives.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Used to be your bread and butter, though. Used to be your bread and butter.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right now we just don't seem to know what we're doing. Uh the scrum is a mixed bag. At points it looks really strong, and then we just seem to switch off. We just look very, very low on confidence.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Um, I think whatever else they do over this autumn, they just need to build up a bit of a bit of confidence, a bit of belief, and and just see if if they can get some some togetherness go. Because at the moment it looks like whatever vibes they had last season have just completely deserted them. Um and it that you know, obviously, injuries, turnover of of squads, all that kind of stuff will have that kind of effect. Um, but they put a big emphasis last season on making Gloucester a nice place to play, yeah. You know, but real squad ethos. A lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff was on the work that particularly Lewis Ludlow was doing to pull that team together. Um, maybe taking the captaincy off him wasn't the right move in the end. Um I didn't want to pick another thread. Yeah, I mean, as good as Tom Os is, maybe Lewis Ludlow as the kind of figure head of that squad, you know, you've been captain a really long time. So it it on the surface it seemed like a good idea to kind of freshen things up, but it hasn't really had the desired effect. Lewis has then obviously been injured for a lot this season anyway.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

You know, it's we've we I also wonder whether the captaincy to Thomas hinders him a little bit as well, because he has to think a bit more. He he the way he plays is with a bit of freedom. If you've got the captaincy, you've got to be thinking a lot more inside the box rather than outside the box. I don't I don't know whether that's something it again, I might just be pulling it a thread that doesn't exist, but that's I think I think that's maybe correlation rather than causation.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

I just I think it just happens to also coincide with the fact that we've been crap. And to be fair, he's not really played a couple of weeks, so harsh to be fair. Yeah, um, I mean it's you know, some nice moments for you know, with with uh Freddie Thomas's tribe, there was some absolutely outrageous out of the circus handling um that set that up, but yeah, we're just not able to do it um for anything like 80 minutes. On the other side, we should just focus a little bit more on Chiefs. Um they back.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

I think they are. Not only do I think they're back, I think they're back with a vengeance, and I think there is something seems to be something in the water down at Sandy Park that is it's almost like they forgotten about last season. They're basically what Gloucester need to do is to put all this negativity and bad press and bad results. Forget about it. You need to find something that is worth building behind, and Exodus seemed to have an ethos, a comaradery. There's something going on there that is really starting to click. And I I think the final pieces of the puzzle in Icaw and Hooper have really, really made them a force to be considered now for top four potentially.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

I think um and I tell you who it is bringing the best out in. It's bringing out the best in Henry Slade.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Henry Slade looks world class again for the first time in a couple of years, really. He looks absolutely world class. Um he seems to have shouldered responsibility without it seeming to be overwhelming, like it was. You know, he's still doing a lot of the kicking, he still does a lot of the defensive, um leading the defensive line. He's very involved in the attack, but mentally he looks unburdened. He looks he just looks he just looks like he's enjoying it, he's enjoying his season. Um I think you know what I will say, Chiefs have probably had the easiest block.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

A kind fictionalist.

Quins Cruise, Newcastle Concerns

SPEAKER_01 42:32

They got Saints at a very good moment, yeah. They've had Newcastle at home, I think, Gloucester at home, and Quinn's at home. Yeah. Um in fact, no, Newcastle might have been away, but they still want that, I think. So they've they have had a a nice run into the season, but I didn't know who they've played. Not to take anything away from them because they've been, you know, I I think they've they've been good for all the for the results they've had. But this this was if if Rob Baxter had been designed in his first five fixtures, he pretty much got it as he would have wanted, um, which is bodes really well for them after the autumn because they'll they'll have momentum, they'll have belief, uh, and they'll have these new sign-ins, these Australians in. So great for them. Um, but they they've they've lucked out a little bit in terms of the fixture lists. Now, that being said, um good fixtures falling at the right time does nothing if you're playing badly. And the likes of Fayo Aboso look back to the best. Fizzelau is coming on leaps and bounds. Kane James came on, nice break, set up a set up the last try from his from Big Break. Ostwima looks like he's getting back to what we thought he could be. Daf Jenkins.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

The packet, the packet as a whole just looks fitter.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

They look fitter. Um, they're getting more out of their front row. I think the the focus on having just enormous scrummaging props, you know, Scott Cho and Yosef Abscott are probably predominantly scrummaging's props, but compared to the likes of Aaron Painter, for example, they look a lot more mobile, a lot more involved. Stephen Varney is playing superbly. Yeah, um, he's playing like an international nine, um, which he is, but you know, he wasn't necessarily Italy's star man. Well, the the way he's playing at the moment, he could be. Um, Harvey Skinner is twice the player he was last season, which is obviously helping. And Josh Hodge is is sort of starting to look like he can fulfil that potential. So you just add all those elements up together, along with the number of other players we haven't mentioned.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Suddenly you start thinking, well, actually, this is a squad that I can't believe I can't believe you didn't say Zamboni.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Uh well Zamboni obviously only played about 20 minutes in this.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

I know, but you've taken any opportunity to say his name so far.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

But look, I think Zamboni has been potentially one of the fines of the season, to be fair. Because he is for a relatively unknown in Italy under 20s lock, he has been impactful. Um I s I think he's been picked up in the Italy squad. If he hasn't, he should have been. He has. Um, but yeah, his his impact in that in that that pack should not be uh diminished because he has been brilliant. Um in stark contrast to most of Gloucester's signings, uh, I have to say. Um apart from probably Will Joseph. But uh no, I think Chiefs, Chiefs can be will be delighted with how that first block of games has gone for them. Yeah, absolutely delighted. They are now third in the table, so they're above Saracen, above Tigers, above Bristol, above Sale. Uh, three wins, a loss, and a draw. If you'd if you'd offer that to Rob Baxter at the start of uh the season, he'd have absolutely bitten your hand off, I reckon.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

I I reckon you're right. So they've they've got to be careful. They might start getting a nose plead being so far up the table. It's been that long. Um they must be they must be close to being near their point totals for the whole of last season already.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

It's a very good question. I don't know that for certain, but that's that's probably about right to be fair.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

X to got 29 points last season in total, they are already on 19. So they just need 10 more points to match their total from last season. So that shows the change of fortunes already.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

It's huge, it's a huge swing, it's a huge swing for them. So um, no, I think I think Chiefs uh Chiefs have hitting the right trajectory. Um so they will I I still think they probably won't make playoffs at the end of the season, but I could well eat my words based on current form. Um they've got top six written over them. Yeah, we'll see how they do when they get into playing the likes of Tigers, Sales, Saracens, Bristol in the next block. We'll see how they get on, but yeah, they look pretty good for it so far.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Uh I'm willing to put my hat on them finishing above Gloucester.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Yep. Uh at the moment, um to be honest, the uh Gloucester Red Bulls game, whenever that is, is looking like a real uh crunch match for us. Um to be honest, we whatever happens over autumn, uh the physio team needs to be uh working 24-7. Yeah, and we just need to get some basit back.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Um is that what Skivington needs to do over over the autumn? Use the Prem Ruck Cup games to start afresh.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

I think they need to focus on just some of the fundamentals. The line out is really poor. They need to fix that, they need to fix out their mall defense, they need to fix out their defensive system. And if that means less focus has to be put on the attack at the moment, I think they're just gonna have to take that on the chin because the fundamentals are what let them down.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Well, that game ended. Gloucester 12. Um painful, painful visit to Sandy Park for the Gloucester faithful. Uh and another great result for Exeter. Moving on, Harlequins versus the Newcastle Red Bulls. And we kind of said this last week, we expected a bit of a bounce from Harlequins, and boy, they did bounced.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

It was the perfect opportunity for them to do a bit of Joue-Joue, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 47:59

Yeah, keep the season ticket holders happy.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Yeah, uh, but if we're being completely frank, particularly in that first half, Newcastle was still on the bus. Yeah. Um they were decidedly poor.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

I you do think has the bubble burst, like heads are heads are down, the magic.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Alan Dickens is is was quoted in the last day or so saying he thinks they've gone backwards. Um so you know, at the moment things are looking pretty um pretty dour in the northeast, which is a which is going to be a problem because if they want to keep getting those fans through the gates and build some momentum into the summer.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

Is it a coincidence that the rumour of Billy Vinapola being signed is uh somehow leaked out into the press to try and you know buoy the fans a little bit, just to give them a little something to look forward to?

SPEAKER_01 48:50

There's some good news stories of what they need. I mean, if I was them, I would be doing everything I could to sign as many England internationals from the French leagues um for next season just to build um some some excitement up again. The likes and believe are good sign-ins. Um, you know, Joe Marchin's been mooted, I think. Yeah. Um probably I would imagine the Willis brothers will remain out of the price range for for quite some time, but yeah. Uh Carl Sinckler, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

They could even look at the pro did they got Alex Moon, to Tim Erna Harrison. Don't you touch Courtney Laws. Uh let him to let him to let him retire in peace. Yes, he's having a lovely time in Brieve.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Ben White was obviously mooted a little bit earlier. So I think they'll start announcing some big sign-ins quite early, but I think it will be because they want to get some positive news out there because the results are going the wrong way. Yeah, they need to say um, you know, it took them till was it 75 minutes, 76 minutes to to get over the line. Um Leather Barrel, um, which is still one of my favourite names in the league, uh, comes on and looks pretty good for the last 10-15, but you know, ultimately took two consolation scores for them. Um yes, quite.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

I'm just watching these worms trying to find some positives to say about Newcastle. I'm desperate, I'm desperate to find positives because I do want even the banker Amanaki Maffey had a quiet game.

Bath’s Power Edge And Bristol’s Grit

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Uh quiet, quiet game came off after 50 minutes. Um Oscar Usher looked nice when he came on, made a nice break. I'm really looking at the look of how he's developing, but yeah, the positives are few and far between.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

If we're being completely frank, this was so I I do have a positive for any Newcastle Red Bull fans who are listening. Your under 18s team are two from two, and they beat the Harlequins under eighteens in the Prem Next Gen League this weekend. The Harlequins Academy is a very, very strong one. So it makes you wonder are we starting to see the fruit of the labours at the academy level already? Um, because last year their academy was not up to much, and they've got two from two already.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

So if they've got a golden generation coming through at the academy level, then that's something for them to look forward to. But between now and then, times can be a bit late. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

I think the point I was gonna make is it'll be interesting when we get to the end of the season how much of that squad gets trimmed.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Well, on the evidence of the first five games, not too many of them are playing their way into staying within the Rebels project.

SPEAKER_03 51:23

I just hope that they do hold on to players like Oscar Usher, who I do think is generally worth investing a bit of time.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Well, he looks hell. I mean, there's the old saying, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Um, maybe at this point you could throw the baby out, but um I would what I what I would caution is look at what's happened with Gloucester with the amount of turnover they've had to deal with. It's not an instant fix bringing in a large no matter how good you think the players that are coming in are, there are intangibles and immeasurables in rugby that big turnovers of squads tend to expose. Um so bringing in a an all-star team over the summer is not going to be a quick fix to get new cost up the leagues. No, but it would do a good job for their season ticket sales, I'm sure. Uh it would.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Is there anything on the Harlequin side that you want to touch on?

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Uh look, I mean, to be fair, this was I don't want to disparage Quintus because they played well, but that they were playing a bit of a training game at times, um, if we're being completely completely brutally honest. Uh I thought Marcus looked really good, but again, this is the sort of game where Marcus will look good, you know, but he's very just very good at taking advantage of the situations, right? You know, if you were being cynical, you could call it stat padding because it was just the their pack was just getting go forward pretty much the whole game. And for someone like Marcus, that is just catnip. Um Tyrone Green scoring on his hundredth cap for Quinn's, I thought was was nice moment for him. Yeah, uh looked good as he always does. Now England qualified, so in interesting whether they decide to take advantage of that option or not. Um Cassis Cleves goes over back in the mix again after not injuries. Um look, I we I we could spend more time talking about the individual Quinn scores, but the ultimate goal, the ultimate um result of this was um Quinn's were just so much better on the day. Uh the only one probably to focus on is uh Iskro's little volley to finish in the corner. Lovely little touch, lovely to see a bit of Argentinian flair, and a nice opportunity for the commentators to talk about Messier Maradona. Um, but yeah, no, that was a lovely moment. Um, Zakkara 8, I thought looked pretty comp.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Yeah, I think he's he's an example where there's been a lot of talking him up since the preseason about him pulling up trees and really performing, but hasn't really translated much on the pitch up at Tilldale. But you know, again, he had looked good. You do have to remember the opposition in the back of your mind, but like you have to remember the Red Bulls did beat Quinn's in the first round of the Premier Rugby Cup. Um and it was quite a strong Quinn's outfit, would have had Zach Carr in it. So, you know, it there is a bit of a turnaround there for Harlequins, at least.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Yeah, look, I think you can only beat who's in front of you, and Quinn's beat who's in front of you pretty pretty comfortably for being frank. But that's a that's a cancer, really, if we're honest. Um, lots of questions for Alan Dickens up in the northeast. Um and Quinn's will just be pleased to have got a win on the board for the uh before the break after last week's horror show at Sandy Park. So um yeah, finished Quinn's 52, Newcastle 14, and uh to be honest, uh it didn't even look that close.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

No, no, yeah, if anything, could have been a bit bigger.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

Uh next game game that um looked closer than it ended up being.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

Yeah, yeah, thanks to 15 minutes of an additional time. Bath versus Bristol, another derby in the West Country, another one, and this score line, so the score line was 40-15 to Bath. I really think it gives the game a real disservice having that score line, because it was a lot closer than you'd have thought.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

I think if you could um remove a bit of uh pickety refereeing around pushing and shoving, yeah, then this game might look a little differently at the end.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Um talking about stat padding, gave Henry Arundel a lovely 80-minute run.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Well, given that up to that point he had effectively been anonymous.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

Um got 130 metres carried and a tried as name.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Yeah, which to be fair, from a fantasy rugby point of view, excellent for me, but uh from Bristol's point of view, they will feel um they will feel a bit aggrieved that on 92 minutes they were still having to deal with Arundell. They could have kicked it out, they weren't going to get anything out of the game, they'll still play.

SPEAKER_03 55:42

It felt personal at that point almost.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Um they weren't.

SPEAKER_03 55:45

And this was a this was a a bitey kind of game. Feisty. Um feisty, feisty, feisty.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Yeah, I thought Bristol Bristol came in with a point to prove. Genge talking about um his thoughts on Bath being a working class boy from Bristol. Um it's nice, it's a nice narrative for them to you know. I think the likes of Bristol and Gloucester, you know, need to play up that kind of thing when they're playing Bath because we can't compete with um well, Bristol can compete with the funding, Gloucester can't, but you can't compete with Bath as a setting. It is, you know, it's the Limehouse home of Middle England.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

Um, we're gonna be there in a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Yeah, yeah, looking forward to it. Um, but you know, Bath Bath is a posh town. There's no, you know, there's two ways of dispute in it. There's no two ways about it, it's a posh town, and you know, I suspect for fans from other nations when they imagine England rugby fans, they imagine Bath fans, yeah. Um, which is fine. You know, that is that is there's nothing wrong with Bath fans. There's nothing wrong with Bath fans apart from who they support and where they're from. Um but uh you know I think so I think building up those kind of narratives are really good, and I'm glad that Gengh did it. And Bristol came with an attitude, um, and they put Bath under real pressure. Finn Russell had probably his worst game for Bath that I've seen. Yeah, charged down a couple of times and put under pressure quite a bit, made m made quite a few mistakes. Um they made mistakes up front, you know. They they were they were really pressured into um forcing forcing the player at times, which is not really the bath the bathway. No. But once again, having a pack as big as that just is a cheat code at this level.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

Yeah, they do just they they they are able to just grunt their way out of problems, um, which is annoying because they just they do that and then they just roll the bench out and step it up a gear.

unknown 57:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

And it's uh it's all very unfair. I'd rather talk I'd rather talk more about how good bears were, considering the context of their season so far.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

I think that they are overperforming against expectations, massively overperforming where where they should be given the their injury problems. Um their their defence was so good, quite an unbristol performance, um, to be honest. They they didn't jouer jouet, um, they came there with an aggressive physical approach early on that you know looked like it was paying dividends, I'd say, probably for the first 30 minutes or so, 35 minutes, where I think they just yeah, just about clung on to a lead. Um, but then Bath just sort of started to be able to pile pressure onto them. But you know, they came Bristol came with a real approach of we're we're just gonna harass and we're gonna press and we're going to blitz, and you know, it I think Bath were a bit shell-shocked to start with about that. Um, Fitz Hardin just continues to impress week on week. He's so um so busy.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

Work rates through the roof.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

Phenomenal. I mean, there was one bit, it might have been Pathokina Singer's try, but it starts with a scrum on the other side of the field, and he beats everyone to cover over that over that side. It might not be a patrol trunk, might just be an opportunity, but um, you know, he was he was outworking the whole back line and both packs to get that, and it's you know, that kind of graft is what gets you through matches like this where you are struggling for numbers.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Um he's he's a name that I'm surprised. I'm not saying he should be in the England squad, but I'm surprised he's never really mentioned in kind of the forums or by commentators saying, Oh, Fitz Harding, England qualified, why not?

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Well, it goes back to the conversation we had last week about the likes of Callum Chick, where you know he is a grafter, he does nothing wrong, he is seven out of ten every week. You could maybe argue his handling is a bit of a point of difference, but is it that much better than the other England flanker options? You know, he's not the biggest player, he's not the tallest player, um, he's not the most physical, he's just relentless, and that at a at a club level, at prem level, is Gold dust, you need those kind of players. He's just probably not got the stardust to be a point of difference at uh international, which is it's it's a harsh review of what is a very, very good player, but um unfortunately he just doesn't have that point of difference to to make that next step. Um, but then that being said, you know, I think if you're a Bristol fan, you are more than entitled to to shout about him and say he should be getting picked for England because he's that good for them.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Um yeah, him him and Ogre for me have been two real standouts for Bristol.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

Yeah, Ogre's probably I think unlucky not to be in that England squad. I think he's playing better than Theodan. Yeah. And I think his all-round nuts and bolts are better than Theodan. Um, he's a jackal threat. His handling and his pace around the park make him a massive threat in the loose. The only thing he doesn't have is the same level of power. Um, but his darts are better, his um I think his mauling's better, I think you know his control and the maul is better. I I would I would have had him above Theodan at the moment, given the way they both have play it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

I agree. But I'd also had Blameier above Dan.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:11

Um I would basically what you're saying is you hate Theodan.

Tigers Edge Sale In A Classic

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Uh I just don't think he's having a very good season, to be honest, at the moment. And I think his to be honest, he's a hooker whose line out darts are are failing him.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

Yeah, very true, very, very, very, very true.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

And there's a lot of very good England hookers around, you know, Jabulu, yeah, we have a few Tom Dunn, you know, two at Pilotto even.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Yeah, we do have a few.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

Paul Grey, you know, obviously Langdon's injured, but Jack Walker would would argue it, Seb Blake would argue it. You know, there's a lot of England hookers in this league, and I don't think Theodan is in the top three at the moment. There we go.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

But before we get distracted and talk about Saracens again, uh, should we talk a bit about Guy Pepper and Sam Underhill?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

Oh, I mean, honestly, um, they are freaks of nature, both of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

In the nicest possible way.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

No, no, no, in a in a in a horrible way that's disparaging and uh disingenuous. Um, no, of course, in the nicest possible way. They're absolute, absolute freaks. Um, Guy Pepper, Joe Van Groen last season said that Guy Pepper had the potential to be Richie McCaw. And at the time everyone went, right mate, okay. I mean, I remember Richard McCor, he was brilliant. Um, and look, that might still be a slightly high high aim for anyone ever. But you can see what he means at the moment because he's got he's a very similar shape, he's a big lad, his technique is pretty much perfect in everything he does. You know, his carrying is powerful and he carries in a way that makes the most of his size, his jackalin is phenomenal, his tackling is pretty much textbook. Um, he's maybe not as physical a tackler as Underhill, but who is. Um, he just seems to be a player that he does pretty much everything right all of the time. Yeah. And on top of that, he's super mobile, he's got really good hands. You start to think maybe a hard player leave out of any any team, wouldn't he? Just someone who's that good at everything they do. Yeah. And then Sam Underhill, you know, where do you where do you start with this guy?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:21

He is his power is second to only a bulldozer. We've covered this already, Rory.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

Well, absolutely. I mean, but it's it's insane. It's an insane level of power, and he just levels, and you know, for his trite, just there was so many players around it. He still just just thumps his way through. I don't know. I just I I can't think of another England flanker that delivered that much punch. Maybe nil back, maybe, but even there.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:50

I really wish that rugby did like the NFL style draft day, and we just there was like some sort of pound for pound strength test. Because I wouldn't put it past Adhill being top, like pound for pound, strength wise, being at the top of everyone in the league. I'd love to see a combine. Would I imagine? Imagine a Prem Rugby combine, it would be incredible.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

I'd love to see a combine. Yeah, that'd be great. Um, yeah. Just just an absolute freakish athlete. Um, who I mean obviously he's had the injury issues, but for me he sort of fits in that Tom Curry bracket of if he's available, you pick him.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:23

Yeah, more so like who's uh who would you pick if you can only pick one seven, both fit both firing Tom Curry, Sam Underhill.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

Just Tom Curry, but I mean it's width of a fag paper between them. Um and that's only on the basis of the added experience Tom Curry's had from being more available down the years. Um not much in it then. There's talent-wise, there's next to nothing in it for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, maybe Tom Curry's a little bit better with the ball in his hands. Yeah. But Sam Sam Underhill's better at is is a more powerful tackler. He is. But they're still both really good with the ball in their hands and both really good tacklers. It's just that's maybe the slight difference between the two, but it's not much.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:08

Not much at all. Uh basically, it's a perfect world that we'd love to live in.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Um, just looks um looks like he is absolutely loving being on the pitch. That's one thing you know, in this game he was uh responsible for one or two of the dust ups because he was just being a bit of a shit house, and I love it. Yeah, yeah. Um just very subtly dropped the ball on Elisalt's head to uh to start a scuffle after he scored his try. Yeah, um it he's he's massively benefiting, obviously, from having Finn Russell inside him and having a pack that's always going forward, you know, but any backward. What he d what he then has on top of that is he's he's so effective at using his athletic abilities because he's quick, because he's powerful, you know, games could have just come easy to him, but he's just he's seems to be constantly looking to be involved and he wants to impart an impact on the game, which just comes from a player that's massively confident and massively enjoying themselves. And given the injury he had at the start of the year, you you know, he could be forgiven for being a bit within himself, yeah. And he's just not, and that from a mentality point of view, that is just I think that's so impressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, I you know, they think that Freeman's gonna start at 13, you know. I don't hate it as a call, but it wouldn't be what I'd do, as we've spoken about. But for me, he's if he's playing in this form, he has to start for England because he's just a rare combination of athletic ability and skill that you'd have to you just have to find a way to get on the pitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I completely agree. I think similar to similar to how we thought about Tuelagi back in the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

You know, you're just one of those those kind of athletes that you go, well, you just have to find a way to have him on there because how could you not get the most out of that player?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:08

Yeah, that that that that mashup of physical presence with technical ability very rarely, very rarely it comes across and is a possibility for you to select for your country. Um so yeah, I'd I love Tommy Freeman. I'll have Tommy Freeman in a 13 shirt, but I'd have Ollie Lawrence in 13 as well, personally. Um I think he's a great player. But this game itself ended 40-15, despite Bristol Bears putting up one hell of a fight with their depleted squad. Uh, but ultimately Bath used all that extra time, ran the score up a little bit, and got a couple of last 12 minutes tries. Uh gutting for Bears, uh, but another bonus point win for Bath, who will be not being top of the table. But we move on. Leicester Tigers versus Sail Sharks Rory. Uh and we earmarked this one last week as potentially being round game of the round. This was a good game.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Towel. Um that was that's all I could think of when we talked last week about Tigers Bath being like the level of intensity of a test match. This had a very similar feel to it. Um Tigers, really, really impressive. Um James O'Connor seems to have unlocked something in that Tigers team that we weren't convinced was there.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:27

But they seem to they seem to be really playing with their tails up at the moment. Um, two of the unluckiest players in England, Hassel Collins and Radwam, who you know, Tigers fans, I will admit it, they are incredibly unlucky to not be considered in this England squad, both of them. Yeah, both superb, both playing maybe the best rugby of either of their careers at the moment. Um Jamie Blameier coming on leaps and bounds from where we knew he was at Newcastle. He's now becoming a pretty much undeniable forcer hooker again. Another one I think Steve Worthhook will be very closely keeping an eye on. In Nikki Smith and Joe Hayes, they've got two of the most reliable props in the league.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:06

I think they're both in form as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:09

They're both in form, and their scrummaging is powerful. Yeah, Ollie Chesham is just embracing the challenge of being the captain of that team so well. I mean, he's he's everywhere, and his all-round skill set is phenomenal. Um, and then you've got likes of Cam Henderson, Tommy Rafel, and Oli Kracknell, who are maybe the less glamorous names in that league, in that squad, but just performing at consistently high levels, and Harold Liebenberg, who you just never drops his performance as a pack. I think I think at times they're unsubtle. I think at times they don't do the nice little bits around the edges that would make them more effective, but then all of a sudden they do it, they just they go, and within a flash, they either one of the forwards or they just create enough space for the likes of a Radwan or a House of Collins to finish, which is exactly what happened from a lot of these tries. Yeah, it was boring, boring, boring, one out, one out, one out.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:09

Something we're critical of them about last year, which is oddly becoming a strength.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Yeah, but but they're but what they're doing now at the moment, what they seem to be doing at the moment is I think they accept they play one out boring rugby a lot of the time, and then they find the right moment to do the subtlety, and they do it so well that they they create such chaos in the defences, yeah, and then they're very good at finding the players to finish them off. You know, Radwan um got two in this game, both of which come off really good hands from Freddie Stewart in particular, but also James O'Connor. But they all come from um lots of phase play, not even necessarily going forward very much until they do, and then and then they shorten up the defensive line, and then they just go get it to Radwan, get it there as quickly as possible, and they do the really good hands, and he just he finishes off the opportunity. The the second one in particular that he scored against the grain, um, similar to a try Tommy Robot scored earlier the season against Newcastle, actually, just a great identifier of we've got him, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

Um, and I think as a as a team, you know, you pair that pack with the power they've got in the centres with Cater and Paris Woodward as well when he's in there, the finishing ability of the wingers, solidity of Freddie Stewart at fullback, and that kind of stardust of James O'Connor just in the middle of it all. You start to think, well, why can't they challenge actually for the title? Actually, all the elements are there now. Um, so I if I was a Tuggs fan, I'd be pretty excited about this squad in this season, actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:41

Well, you you spoke there about um Unsubtlety. How about the centre partnership we've not seen so far this season in Qata and Parise, who was there last year, but I think they showed why on paper why that is a very, very unsubtle and powerful centre partnership.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:57

Well, look, they're both kind of red card merchants, there's no two ways about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:01

Yeah, that's true. That's very true.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

When they are on song and they don't make those kind of silly mistakes, I mean, geez, they're effective. I mean, because they're they're not necessarily the tallest centres in the world. I think they're probably they probably hover around the six-foot range.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

Yeah.

Teams Of The Week Debate

SPEAKER_01 1:12:19

Maybe even less. But they are balls of muscle, they are and they carry with real venom. Um I mean, I would hate to have to get in the way of either of them, particularly Kata, but really either of them would be would be would be horrible. Um Parise, I think uh he's got an NRL background, doesn't he? I believe so, yes. And you can see you can see that the way he goes into contact. You know, and you say they're not they're not the subtlest centres in the world. Um, but if you use them effectively, I mean it's it makes it very difficult for a for a defence to get on the front foot. Because on top of having to worry about what's cracknall doing, what's Chesham doing, what's Blame doing, what's Nicky Smith doing, what's Ilione doing, they then go, or spin it wide, and there's only Catherine Paris doing it. So it's a you're you're right to point out they're not subtle, but used effectively, players like that are just cheat codes.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:15

Yeah, yeah. And it was it was definitely not meant in any way a slight on their game. It's just the fact that you know what you get with them, and they're very, very good at it. Uh speaking of players that you know what you get with them, George Ford, the man you dropped from your 23.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

Well, I think the noises he is actually going to start for England this week. And I don't, I'm absolutely to be honest, I will say though, I don't actually mind what fly half they pick. I think any of the three is a good choice. But George Ford, um, his pass selection is ridiculous. I'm I'm starting to feel like he's got like looper technology or something, and he just sees he just goes back and just replays it until he picks the right pass because he he doesn't make the wrong choice ever. I mean, for all of Luke James's tries, I think he's on the line and Sale are slightly similar to Leicester, they they do it slightly differently. Lester do a lot of one out off the base of the ruck. Sale do a lot of pick and goes around the around the base, but they're both designed with the same drawing the defenders make space drawing all the defenders, and with Sale, you know, they do that three, four, five times. You draw in the fence, and then all you've got to do is give it to Ford because you know he's gonna find the space. There will be space, there's always space when you do that effectively with a pack as powerful as that, and then you just give it to him and he just go yep, option C. And it just it's correct, it's the right one, it's always the right one. Whatever happens, he picks the right choice. It's just not it's not normal to be that right all the time. Um, but it's it is um it's so effective for for them, you know, because it almost doesn't matter who's outside him, you know. They've got they've got some very good backs outside George Ford. They don't need to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:54

So what you're saying is you or I could be at the end of his passes and we'll still pick up a couple of tries.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:59

Honestly, a couple of those Luke James tries, just on the on the provisor that we were fit enough to get there in the first place, uh, which is obviously big provisor. Big if, big if. Uh, but you just need to sort of be there, um, because he just puts you in the holes. Um I see Rafi Quirk, obviously back in the England squad, looking like he got a bit of Joie de Vives again, um, quite busy when he came on.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:23

He is looking good, but I'm I'm holding back my optimism on Rafi Quirk because I have been burnt by getting excited by his return a couple of times, and he's either got or got injured or he's just had a horrific loss of form. Yeah. I'm gonna hope that it continues in this vein, um, because I do think on paper and potentially he is a very, very, very good nine. Just haven't seen it for a little while now. Hopefully it's still there.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:49

I think he's still got the highest ceiling of all the nines in in England, but injuries and form have have not have just not helped him get there. But I'm I'm I remain optimistic, and on the base of this weekend, he's at least on the right trajectory again. Hazar.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:06

What do you what do you make of um Asherah Pokéfajor um not being deemed qualified enough to create a contestable scrum one week and then to play a full 80 minutes in that exact same position the following week up against Joe Hayes at international tight head?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:21

It's farcical because it's all just it was paperwork. They did they it's not that I don't think it's that they wanted to go to uncontested scrums last week, which they didn't filled out the paperwork properly.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:30

Um is it right that paperwork dictates some sort of blatantly obvious errors?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:36

You would like to think common sense would take hold, but maybe that's also too much in rugby. Um I do I think it's farcical, but it's it's a it's a minor point behind the the very important point of Asherah Perkafajor has in the last two weeks played tight head and loose head against uh you know top quality props and been good both times. And what we were hoping to see from Asher Perkafajor is really starting to come through from a scrummaging point of view. We know how good he is in the loose. Can he scrum both sides and hold his end up? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:09

Yeah, he can. So certainly can.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:12

It's a weapon to have, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:14

To be able to do that from both sides, there's not many props that can do that. Um, you and I both know it's very different propping on each side of the scrum. Uh it does take a very different um muscles, different skill set, yeah. So the fact he's got both of those only bodes well for him going forwards. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

Um I do want to talk about you one moment, David, that I think we'll have both enjoyed watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you already know what I'm going to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:39

Umika.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:40

Someone described it as running in like Sam Burgess. And I could see what they mean.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:46

Just Venom and hate. And I looked at that and I thought, that looked like a man who has just been told he's not in the automation squad. Well, I thought they was assumed that was because he was carrying a knock. I mean, it didn't look like he was carrying a knock then. Exactly. Unless he got a knock from doing it, and that's where they changed their minds. But um, look, very few players actually properly accelerate into those contacts when they're running from that kind of distance because you just you know you're out you're you're cruising for a bruising. Um but he he did it, and my god, that is laying down a marker of what you're about. You know, that is that is properly hand up and go, this is what I'm about.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:29

Um and I I like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:31

I like it a lot, I like it. And I'm I'm hoping to see a lot more of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:36

Me too. Um hopefully we'll see him maybe in an England day shirt at the wreck in two weeks' time. That'll be nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:43

I would be amazed if he wasn't in the mix.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:46

Well, we'll be in the terraces, Rory. We'll be near the entrance for the the players. We can try and see them give us a little look, and we'll say, good work, Amika. We're here for you. Amika! Amika, we're Rux balls over balls. We love you, we love you. Yeah, yeah, don't know what else to say after that. But yeah, oh, I can't wait. Can't wait to watch him in the flesh in an English shirt. Um, but yeah, the game ended. 36-35 to Tigers, another another nail biter at Welford Road. Um, to all those empty seats. Um, that was that was mean of me. I apologize, Lester fans.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:19

But you were right. I was I did think watching it. I was like, are they struggling for crowds?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:23

They all season, even the game against Bath, like there's they're 50 seats, surprisingly. Um but hey, let's be optimistic because we need bums on seats. Uh, but yeah, that's round five. It's time for our quick fire teams of the week, Rory. Now I will hold my hands up. I hadn't prepared one before this podcast. I have prepared one in the background that I have lost a lot of confidence in as we've spoken through these games. Um how would you like to play this? Would you like to go through position-position or just read off the teams?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:53

Let's go position by position. Um, it's a it wasn't easy this week, actually, I have to say. I found last week's easier to pull together. There was a lot of 50-50 calls, and there were actually some positions where there weren't a lot of standouts.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:05

But I think I've pulled together a decent team. Uh Lou said I've got Ben Obano.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:11

Okay, I've written Nicky Smith.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:13

Yeah, I nearly went Nicki Smith again. I did Nicky Smith last week, and I thought he was very good. I just think Beno Abano, just in those tight carries, was a big factor in Bath overcoming what Bristol came were about at the weekend. Um he was really part of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:29

Um I think that's fine. I think what we've done there is we've named two of the best loose heads in the league at the moment. Uh, so we've covered all bases. Hooker. Jamie Blemeyer. So I've gone Gabriel Ogre.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:40

From work rate, just what he does around the park.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:42

I thought about Ogre, and then I thought, can my team of the week really include the Hooker who lost 40 points to 15? And I thought he was really good actually. But then I also thought, so was Jamie Blemaier.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:55

So on the basis of the Blemayer one.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:57

I I nearly went Cowand Dickey as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:59

Yeah, it also had a very good, um, a very good game. Um, but I think one of the things that I thought was really impressive from Blemeer this week was some of his handling, actually. Uh peeling off the back of malls and linking up a little bit of play. I thought I was looking at going.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:12

He showed he's got that that almost like a back like fourth back row quality to him, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:17

Yeah. Some added skills there.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:19

Yeah. Um tight head.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:21

DeToy. Thomas the Toy, Thomas the Tank.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:23

Thomas DeToy. I'm glad we got one exactly the same. Yeah, he on his day, best tight head in the world. Easy. PZ. Lemonzy. Yeah. Second row, Rory.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

Uh I'm going to say both, because I'm not convinced I got them in the right shirt numbers, but I've decided these two with the standouts. Uh, Oli Chesham and Vandermesht for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:43

Okay, so I've got, and this may be stats dictating more so than my brain here, and perhaps may reflect my rushed nature of my team. I've got Ross Maloney and Van Der Mesht.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:54

Maloney was was good. Um, the only other name I had in mind was uh Petty, who I thought had a good game for Quinn's.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:01

Um, but for me, Ollie Chesham's it's a lot of his work on the ball in particular, I'm really, really impressed by he's got a very good skill set for a big man. Um I'm I'm fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:15

If we were doing a joint one, I would I would seed Maloney for Chesham, but as they're separate. Well done. Fine. Well done. You win that one, I I guess. Back row. I also had Randomesh, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:25

Yeah, I knew back row. I've gone for, and I'm not convinced I've got this right, but I'm this is what I'm going for. I've gone Liebenberg, Pearson, and Fizzelow.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:34

So I've gone Kenningham, Underhill, Pollock.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:38

Mmm, okay, interesting. Very different. Well, I'll give you my reasoning. I mean, Liebenberg, you know, he's just a solid player every week, but there was one particular moment when he put in it was Cam Henderson for his trite, and it was just his hands at the line and his ability to pull out those moments of subtlety that we were talking about at the right time for Tigers. Yeah. That he he was one of the ones who broke the game for Tigers more often than you know the player with the number number on his back should. Um you know, he's just such a good player. I mean, I just like Lieberberg as a player, just graft.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:12

He's he's he's solid, and um as you said earlier, like sometimes you just need like consistent seven out of ten players. I think he's like a consistent seven and a half out of ten player every week.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:22

Yeah, he he fluctuates between seven and a half and nine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He he is he is quality, yeah. Um, Tom Pearson, Tom Pearson I've picked because partly because he's just how good his season is. I know he got a bin, but it was a team bin, really. Uh just on the number of penalties given away. Um keeps scoring tries, he's he's constantly in the mix for it. I have been so impressed by his form um this season. I think um a player of his size and mobility and carrying is just gold dust. Um yeah, he needs to get back in that England camp. He needs to get back in the England camp.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:56

Well hard position to get the game.

Autumn Nations Predictions And Close

SPEAKER_01 1:23:58

I mean if he keeps getting starts, if he keeps getting starts for Saints, and it's competitive in the Saints back row, but it would be difficult to deny him because he's that good. Um Fizzelow A, I didn't pick him last week on a bit of a coin coin flip. Really good start to the season from him, seems to have bulked out a bit, but also without losing any kind of mobility. Just a handful. Because he's so quick, he's so quick off the mark, and with his power, you know, if the if the defence is at all on its heels, he picks and goes with such ferocity, just always makes yards. If he's if he gets the ball in the wider channels, you know, you've you've got to be on your mill because he'll get away from you, he's that quick. I mean, he's another one who's in that, I guess sort of a similar to like a Ben Earl kind of mould, where he's you know, he's not the tallest player in the world, but he's so quick and so powerful. You know, his ability to cover ground is is just so impressive.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:57

Yeah, yeah. I only went Pollock because um obviously he's Saints. He's played for Saints, and he's uh he's bleached his hair blonde in honour to friend of the show, Archie McParland, I can only assume. So had to had to represent.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:10

Absolutely, absolutely, and you know, Archie, we still think you should go back to Blonde. Yeah, absolutely. We stand by that. Scrum half, slightly tougher one, not actually loads of really impressive Scrum performances, but I've gone with Stephen Varney again, same as last week. Um, his return to the Prem has been really impressive. Um, he's on excellent form. I think Kieran Marmion was would have been one of the other ones worth talking about. He had a really good game. Um, actually, probably outplayed Ben Spencer for a lot of that game. Um, but no, I've gone with Varney because almost on the basis of how consistent his performance levels have been in the last few weeks, really impressed by him.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:47

Well, I'll go on Alex Mitchell because when you're a scrum half to a side that flows with that much attacking flair against a Saracens team that defends as well. You're doing something right. And he's got to be right. He's wearing the right shirt as well. Uh 10.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:00

Well, this will please you. I've gone Finn Smith. Good choice at 10. Um again, just ahead of George Ford, probably edges it because he won, George Ford didn't. Had Sale won the game, probably Ford could have edged it just with his ability to put put people even tries, but Finn Smith, I think, has come back with a real plomb since the Lions tour. Um, just a lot of try involvements, and you know, you can't ask for much more from a fly off.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:26

No, uh, I've also gone Finn Smith, obviously. 8910 from Saints. Yes, please. Uh centre partnership, Rory, 12 and 13.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:34

I've gone Cata and Slade.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:36

Okay, so I've gone Ikatao and Slade.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:38

Yeah, Iker was my second choice 12. Um, really good, really sort of starting to hit the prem, making a couple of good, decent breaks, uh, nearly set up a try, but there's a full pass in there. Um, and looks like he's just gonna be a handful while he's in the prem. And every team's gonna have to be on the watch out for what he's doing. Yeah, but I thought Solomon and Cata this week, in concert with Paris, was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:02

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my honourable mentions would be Cater and Lawrence.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:06

Yeah, Lawrence was Lawrence and Paris were my honourable mentions at 13, but Slade. Slade may have been player of the week in general this week.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:12

Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:15

Just really back to his his silky best.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:18

You're two wingers, Rory.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:20

Yeah, so again, same as last week. I'm playing trying to play this as close as I can down the line. So I'm I'm trying to pick the players with the numbers they had on their backs. Left wing I've gone Hassa Collins, right wing I've gone Tommy Freeman, um, with big shout-out for Hoth and a singer, who I thought was really good for Bath and Iskro, who was really good for Quinn's. Um, and on the left wing, uh, for once I'm not gonna give Arendel the shout-out because until the intercept, I'm not sure he was that effective this week. Uh O'Flati, though, was very good for sale. Um, Revuvu was pretty good for Bristol. Um, but Oli Hasford Collins I thought was excellent. Just didn't get a try this week, but really effective with the high ball. Uh, really effective getting the ball up the pitch.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:05

Manny Feu Aboso is my left wing.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:07

Yeah, he played right wing though, didn't he?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:08

Yeah, but I'm not doing your silly shit on back rule. Crazy, crazy talk when you picked two number fives in your second row. Jesus, Rory. Uh, then your fullback. Uh just I've gone Tyrone Green. I've also gone Tyrone Green. Hundredth cap. Nice try.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:24

Hundredth cap, played really well. I thought Santi Carreras was very good for Bath, as much as it pains me to say it. Uh Luke James uh got a sale. Yeah, it's not often you overlook a hatrick. That's worth mentioning. Um, but Tyrone Green just continues to be so effective. Um, just we can say our brains whether performing well or not, Tyrone Green is usually good. He is, he is.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:48

Um those are our teams of the week, people. Uh let us know what you think. Now, Roy, before we bring the podcast to a close, we need to do some predictions for the weekend ahead. Let's do it on the Autumn Nations fixtures. Uh let's just get those bad boys up. Autumn nations fixtures. Okay, week one. Four games I'm going to ask you about. Quickfire predictions. England versus Australia at Twickenham slash Alliance Stadium. Your predictions, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:25

High scoring game. England by five, but it could be something like uh 3530, something like that. I think that's in my head before you said anything. In my head to come out.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:35

In my head, before you said anything, I was thinking 3531 to England. Let's get money on it. Let's get money on it. Okay, Wembley South Africa versus Japan.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:45

South Africa would win this by 30 puts.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:49

Yes, easy prediction. Don't put your money. Or let's stop that accent. Uh don't put any money on that one because those odds are not gonna be good. Uh yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:59

South Africa again. I'm gonna batter Japan, I'm afraid.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:01

Yeah, sorry to say. Uh you're right. Uh Murrayfield, Scotland versus USA. USA, USA.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:09

Scotland are gonna batter the USO uh by 20 points. I think this could be something like 35-15. I think the I this is a poor American team at the moment. Yeah. Um worrying given the the World Cup's gonna be over there, but it's uh it's a poor US team.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:27

I see Scotland putting 50 on them uh personally. Now, Ireland versus New Zealand at Soldier Field, Chickago. Who's gonna come out on top?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:36

Sorry to say, I think it's gonna be New Zealand.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:38

And the crowd goes mild. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:41

I think it'll be tight. I think there'll be five points in it. I think there's something in the region of 24-19, something like that. But New Zealand are gonna um are gonna edge this one.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:54

Yeah, and I go one step further. I'm gonna predict a Cam Roygaard masterclass. I think he's gonna run the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:00

Okay, okay, yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:02

Yeah, yeah, I'm on board. I'm on board with that. I think New Zealand um do a number on Ireland. I think they I think they they steal the win. Uh so yeah, those are our predictions, people. Let us know what you think. Uh before we bring it to a total close, Rory. Any final thoughts for the listener?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:19

Uh England.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:22

We've been Rux Bulls and Overbulls. This has been episode eight or so of the second series of Rux Balls and Overbulls, the fans' favourite rugby podcast. Uh hope sh hope you enjoyed listening. If you did, remember to like, subscribe, follow, send carrier pigeons we don't mind. We'll we'll listen to anything really. Uh, and we'll be back next week talking more things rugby. Bye bye.