S2 Ep 15 - Wild Weekend Where Exeter Stun Saracens & Saints Slice Through Sale

A weekend that felt like a pressure test for the Premiership delivered on every front. Leicester bullied the basics and shredded Gloucester’s confidence, Exeter turned the StoneX into a second-half workshop, Saints ran riot against a leggy Sale, Bristol lit up Big Game while Quins wilted, and Bath rolled out an eight-man bench detonation that shows exactly why they’re so hard to live with. We also talk transfer tremors—Tommaso Menoncello to Toulouse and Siya Kolisi’s rumoured return to the Stormers—and what those moves say about where power sits across Europe and the URC.

We start with Leicester’s control: scrum smarts, a midfield that finally fits, and Billy Searle’s balance of nerve and clarity. Gloucester’s flashes were real, but the red-zone waste was brutal. At StoneX, Saracens jumped early then faded as Exeter’s pack and tempo stacked phases and belief. There’s a new dimension to Chiefs: not just bludgeon, but late-game variety powered by Daf Jenkins, Ethan Roots and Greg Fisilau. Saracens’ issues aren’t fatal, but that suffocating aura has slipped; the line-out and defensive edge need sharpening.

Northampton’s win had everything: Henry Pollock’s hands and hunger, George Hendy’s glide, a backline humming in space. Sale without Ford looked short on control and accuracy, relying on emotion that eventually ran dry. In London, Quins’ selection and 22 execution misfired, while Bristol—healthier and sharper—turned territory into points and gave us a moment for the ages: Ellis Genge storming 50 metres like a winger. Up north, Newcastle’s spirit met Bath’s ruthless design. Rotate, then overwhelm—Santi Carreras steered, the pack squeezed, and the bench finished. It isn’t flashy; it wins.

We also wrap the PWR: Harlequins Women building momentum with Ellie Kildunne sparkling and Claudia Penna directing, Saracens Women on a six-game tear with their Canadian core settled, and Gloucester-Hartpury so deep they can rotate heavily and still romp. The theme across both leagues is the same: the best-coached systems with depth at set-piece are pulling away as winter bites.

If you loved the tactical nuts and bolts, the big momentum swings, and a prop outrunning backs in open field, hit follow, share this with a rugby friend, and tell us your top four right now. Who makes it, who falls away, and who’s your dark horse?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Rux Malls and Ooballs. That's right, it is the fans favorite rugby podcast brought to you by the fans' favourite rugby podcast host. That's right, it's me, Dave, back again with the ever-dependable, ever-present Rory. Rory, say hello to the listener.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Hello, hello, listeners. Hello, David. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I'm very well, Rory. I'm very well. I am at the very start of my Christmas break off of from work, so I'm enjoying a bit of downtime, enjoying kind of a little bit of a lie in here, there, and everywhere. And obviously, throw the caveat in right now. It's in the next episode of the podcast, but we're in a bit of an R-Mob Universe timeline time warp where we've recorded a podcast yesterday that is going out a week after if you're listening to this one that we're recording today. So it's all a bit confusing.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Yeah. Well, we will be joined by uh Mark Williams of TikTok Fame and we'll be coaching in the in the Northwest Fame. So uh do tune in next week for your uh for your allocated uh festive dose of armor, but it won't be a review of that weekend's fixtures, it's uh it's a bit of a review of 2025 and looking ahead to 2026.

Transfer Ripples: Menoncello And Kolisi

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Absolutely, and having recorded that yesterday, I can comfortably say it's a good one. So if you are available to listen on the 30th of December, which is when it'll be coming out, I think, or 31st, I forget, uh, please do. But for this episode, we're gonna be talking Premiership Rugby, we're gonna be talking a bit of PWR. But uh as usual, where we start off with a little bit of news and it's a bit light on the ground. Maybe the rugby news world is slowing down for Christmas like everyone else is. I think the only thing of note that I've been able to pick out that's worth flagging for our audience is two big names in world rugby because Prem Rugby Transfer News has surprisingly been quiet since we sang about it. Tom, Tomasso, Menoncello off to Toulouse, and C. Kalisi, heavily rumoured, I'm not sure it's 100% confirmed, to Stormers. Uh, these are two of the biggest names of rugby right now, moving to two of the biggest teams in rugby. Um, what does this tell you, Rory?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Uh it tells me that your Italian pronunciation requires work. Um it tells me that Toulouse are doubling down. Um, an interesting, I mean, of Peter Archie's left Toulouse recently, um, so it does leave a bit of a hole for a powerful 12, I guess. Um, but they do have Gorges, Costes, Deporter. They've got a few. They've got a few already uh already in the mix coming through coming through the youth there. So it's an interesting pickup from there. But I mean, there's no doubt Menanchello is, if not world class, world class adjacent in the centres. Um, you know, we've seen how well Brex is doing at Toulon in the last couple of weeks. So no it no doubt that Menanchello will thrive in in that environment. But it's it's a big pickup for a climb where there's not been massive rumours of any other exits. So, you know, just to off the top of my head, so you're thinking obviously DePon and Entermac 910, Menancello and Depotet or could be one of several brilliant outside centres in there.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Chocabarres is Barrassi at Toulouse, or is he uh no, I think he might be at Bordeaux.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

I can't remember. It's hard to keep track of hard to keep track of how many brilliant young French players there are coming through. Um but I say it could be Manancello and Chocobares, yeah, or one of several brilliant young French centres coming through, and then a back three of oh, I don't know, Ramos, Capawatso, Blair King on, Label. Yeah, it's it's a bit a bit unfair.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

A strong get stronger Rory. That's uh survival of the fittest.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Um Kalisa to Stormers is an interesting one. Obviously, moving from the Sharks, who have been quite loaded with Springbox over the last couple of years. Maybe the Stormers are being the Cape Town team, maybe the more dare I say fashionable destination.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Perhaps home of the new South African star boy as well, Sasha Feinberg and Gomazulu. Maybe maybe bringing Khaleesi there to help mentor guide on a more day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Maybe there's an act angle there, possibly, or maybe it's just Khaleesi just fancy going back to the coast.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Um can't blame him, can't say I blame him.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Who knows? Yeah, who knows? Who knows? I mean, the stormers are obviously going good guns in URC and the champions cut already. Um, if they start doubling down, then maybe a sign of South African teams properly making an impact in European and domestic competition, um, which would be interesting to see.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

We've been speculating about the the ramifications of having the South Africans in in these setups and whether it's a positive or not, you know.

Gloucester’s Slide And Leicester’s Surge

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Uh I think I think South African teams taking it seriously. The jury style, I think if South African teams were taking all competitions seriously, it strengthens the argument for their inclusion. Uh whether this is plays a part of that probably is nothing to do with that at all. It's probably just a balancing of where the South Africa and the international players are. Maybe they've got eyes on someone at the sharks coming through, like uh Batho my pronunciation's out the window today, Roy, but this is Batho Thlakani. Uh he's the young back rower coming through at the sharks who's in the South African under 20 side that we sung and kind of shouted about. Maybe they're just clearing the path for him at the sharks to shine. Who knows? Or is he at Bulls? I don't know. Again, our knowledge outside our knowledge of anything other than Prem Rugby is really showing here. So let's move quickly on before we get even more found out for our fraudulent, fraudulent ways. Let's get back on a terra firma. Let's get back on terra firma. Let's talk Prem Rugby, and I'm keen to get into Prem Rugby, and I'm keen to get into our usual running order of our chronological chronological method of assessing the five games of a weekend because Rory, the first game's one that's going to be great fun to talk about. Don't you agree?

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Uh no, I don't think we need to talk about it, to be honest. I don't I don't there's not much to say, actually. Um, fairly uneventful game, no real significance in the result, um, no really wider ramifications for either club. So um I think just breeze past it.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I would well it's easy to say there's no ramifications when you support the team getting zero points from it. But I think Leicester fans would think differently because they've got five very important points, and that have that could have huge ramifications on the side of the table that they're operating in Rory.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

I mean, you make an excellent point, but I'm not happy about it. Um, yes, so this is uh the most recent shellacking for Gloucester, uh, this time away at Leicester Tigers at Matteoli Woods Welford Road. Yeah. Um, and uh from a Gloucester perspective, what is there to say? Um very few shining lights left for us at this point.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Um the lights are dim. The lights are dim at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

The lights are very dim. The it's not a crumb of comfort, it's a it's a source of great frustration. What I would say is we are still, even in games like this, capable of putting together passages of really good, exciting play. What we're not seemingly capable of doing is continuing to catch the ball throughout those passages.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

It's a tricky skill.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

It's a tricky skill, so we're not taking advantage of any of the good opportunities we do get. Um from a player's perspective. I mean, Charlie Atkinson, I think I'm gonna call it now uh unfortunate to be yellow carded and give away the penalty try for tackling the corner.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Um so I I will put hands up when I was watching this and I was asked, oh, what do you think about that? I I thought it was harsh. I thought it was very harsh.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Um I don't know what else he's meant to do to prevent a try.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

So stay on his feet. But then again, if he stays on his feet, you can get in there.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Um he's not getting there, and the other guy's allowed to dive. I mean, it's I realise it's a bit of a a cul de sac in one of his laws.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

What a cul-de-sac. What what what's the difference between jumping and diving?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, you know. I'm I'm I could pick at that thread, but I'm not going to because ultimately, although I think it was it was unfortunate and marred what was otherwise a broadly quite a good performance from Charlie in the wider context of the game, it's largely irrelevant. Very inconsequential.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

And I would say Charlie Atkinson was by far and away probably the only shining light I'd say in the uh in the Gloucester cupboard.

Scrum Clinic: Nicky Smith Vs Laulala

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah, I mean it's probably stretching a bit. I think Jack Clement was wasn't bad. I think Afo for Sogbon was pretty good when he came on, particularly with the ball in hand. But I mean, outside of that, it's it's pretty slim pickings from a gloss perspective. Um it's and it's been a very disappointing uh season so far for us. Very, very little for us to cheer about, um, particularly after what was some you know promising developments last season, really, where we arguably should have made the top four and probably uh let ourselves down by not doing so and giving away some poor results towards the end of the season. At the moment, it's hard to see what the fix is. The only one and there's talked about bringing in a DOR, um, and I'm wondering whether that is potentially looking at what's happened at Chiefs and their decision to put Baxter more back into the the coaching setup rather than the organisational setup. Um I think Skibs has been fairly honest that his strength is on the training paddock and not in sort of contract negotiations. Maybe that's that's the thinking there. Um, but you know uh big questions have got to be asked of the organization at Gloucester uh after what's happened from from last year to this or last season to this, I should say. Um the recruitment's been lackluster. Um wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. They've been busy. They've no, they've been busy. They've been busy. I mean, but you I mean, how many of the signings have actually been effective? Will Joseph but when he's been fit? I mean, injuries have been dreadful. Injuries have been dreadful, like unusually dreadful, but yeah, Will Joseph has been good. Um Ben Redshaw showed real promise for the two games he was fit for.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Will Trenome looks like a bit of a diamond in the rough that we've picked up. Yeah but I mean, outside of that, Josh Basham not really bringing much to the table. Nipo Laulala really disappointed in what he's brought so far.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Well, should should we pause on Laulala and use that to focus on what was effectively a Nicky Smith demolition of Laulala at the scrum in the first half?

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Yeah, uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

I mean are you on the side of Laolala where he was convinced that Smith's hinging is what was causing all these scrums to go down?

SPEAKER_02 10:56

I think Smith was hinging, but I think Smith was hinging tactically because Nepo had gotten too long-legged and he could really. So I think from what I can I could see from it, and this is you know, I may be joining too many dots, but the pitch I think was quite slippery from what what they were saying on comms. So it I think there've been quite a bit of rain in the area. So what happened Nepo was obviously trying to get quite low on Nikki Smith, who we know is one of, if not the best scrummage and loose heads in the league. So he's going to get quite low to try and be able to leverage his his size and power because he's a massive man in that contest, but he's got quite long-legged, which meant he's lost the the grip in the pitch, as you do, you know, as you'll know from your own experiences. And Nicky Smith, I think, has used basically gravity to his advantage to accentuate how long-legged Nepo is and hinge him to floor first. So I think I think Nepo's right that Nikki was hinging, but Nikki was able to hinge that effectively because Nepo got himself too long-led and wasn't chasing his feet. So this is like very in-depth tactical.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

It is and the fact that Nipo got pinged for it three times, he should have been adapting to that because he knew what was going on, yeah, and he didn't adapt to that.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

And he's experienced enough, he's experienced enough to adapt.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

So I have I have limited sympathy with him there, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Um I did think that was a big part of Leicester's momentum in the first half. I mean, it w it was a significant part.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

I mean, the biggest part really was just that Gloucester couldn't.

Tigers’ Centre Balance And Billy Searle’s Rise

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Oh, yeah, the biggest part was that they were better than Gloucester. That was the biggest part.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Yeah, well they were, they were, because ultimately, if if you can't keep hold of the ball, um you're you're going to lose a game. Um Rossburn, another really disappointing game. Thomas Williams. Early speculation that he's checked out since he's he's signed uh elsewhere, rumours being Saracens, obviously. I was probably a bit too early to say that. It might just be a bad game, but it's not a great sign, particularly with our lack of depth in that position.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

He's not really been able to put his stamp on any game so far this season for Glossy, I'd say. No, he hasn't. For a player of his quality, you'd expect at least one in every two games for him to have a moment where he's really standing authority.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

And you know, and he, you know, club captain now. It's it's not brilliant. Um, obviously the centres were completely decimated. Seb Atkinson's trying to carry on. Will Butler, you know, best boy in the world, is a squad option. Um pick up from Worcester, I think. I can't remember. One of the one of the champ clubs.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Um Rob Russell, actually much brighter in his brief spell, but off injured after 25 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah, after your scathing review of last last week.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

No, I fair fair play. He he he has taken up the armor mantle as some do, um was much brighter, but then came off after 25 minutes. Yeah. Said Blake lasted 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Um the injury curse continues.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Yeah, Hathaway who'd come on for Russell also went off for an HI at one point. You know, it's it's loot, it it is mad at this point, really. But no, no excuses because the Gloucester were rubbish. Um, we should talk about Tigers because there are two teams in this equation.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yeah, there are, but I I slightly crossing that segue between the two. One, how good was Solomon A Catter's try? Because of how good he was identified, but did that also show one of the glaring errors at the moment with Gloucester of how easy it is to score off of first phase?

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah, it was it was way too easy. So what I think happened was the back line shifted quite quite particularly Ross Byrne. Now, Ross Byrne on multiple occasions, just in this game alone, but throughout the overcommits in defence constantly. Did the same for Tom Whiteley's try um after the steward break, where he rushed up to no effect whatsoever and just left the hole for Tom Whiteley to sprint through. Um defensively, he is he's worse than a revolving door, he's a genuine liability there. Um so he chases across. Tom Oss is obviously chasing from the scrum and follows him, but the scrum's gotten pot, so the back row hasn't been able to get off. In fact, I think Lewis Dodlo's actually being held in, uh, which you know is technically a penalty, but it's pretty it's just clever, clever play. It's what all blacks should be doing in that situation, and has left this massive gap. Thorley's tried to fill it, but by this point, Cater's going full tilt, he's rounded Tomos, and Cater is massive, and he's got good feet, and he's got a good toe. Yeah, so Thorley, again, not one of his best games to be honest, but can't make an impact on the in the tackle, and and um Cater goes in the corner. Um it was it's it's a really good identification from him, and it's really good spec, but it was the best one in the world, the gate was left open for him. Um was it you know, you should be finishing it in that situation because the the gap between the scrum and the first defender was bizarre. I mean, you you wouldn't you wouldn't see a gap that quick in at the level I play at.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah, that's saying something, but I think it it was a lovely cherry on top to what was a very, very strong performance from Cata, who I think is quietly having a very good season.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Yeah, no, I thought I thought he was really good. Um, I think one of the problems that Cater was finding in early on in his career, not and it was not a problem because it wasn't like he was totally ineffective, but he was also he was a bit of a uh hard machine at times because he's you know he does like the big shot, but also you you found I think you found in games that either Leicester were wholly relying on him to just do something, or they weren't utilising him at all and he got completely lost in games. There seems to be a really good balance now where they're finding ways to get him into the games consistently and effectively. And to be honest, particularly when he's when he's next to Paris, because they can just they got the double battery ram option. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that definitely helped in the first half. You know, I I mean I say I think Woodward and Wand have been really good as well this season, but for me that is the centre partnership if you want to if you want to compete as a Tigers towards.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

For sure, for sure. No, I I completely agree. And I think we also saw from Tigers just I I think we we spoke about it a lot last season uh about how they didn't seem to have there was something quite not quite right there. It does feel like a different Leicester Tigers this season.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Yeah, it does. Um and you know James James O'Connor hasn't featured a huge amount. JFM Porfley made an appearance in this game, it's I think it was the first game but for quite some time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um you know Hamro Liebenberg's not playing, Oli Kracknell wasn't there, um Chesham came back in this game after I don't think he played since the Autumn Internals. Um obviously George Martin's not been um not been involved at all. Actually, you start these these players start coming back into that sort of the way they're playing. You know, Tigers are a genuine threat for the league this year. Obviously, they've they've got they've taken the big scalp already.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah, they've shown um they've shown the blueprint for beating Bath. I think I think uh, you know, as I like to do sometimes to pose a potentially contentious statement and to get your action. Billy Searle. Outside bet for signing of the season so far?

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Oh, he's just been he's been phenomenal. I I mean I'm not even sure it's an outside bet. I think he's got to be at least in the short list. I think there's been a better signing so far this season. It'd be difficult to to think of one off the top of my head. Um given given the profile he was signed at, let's say, I'm trying to be as diplomatic as possible in the way that's like, but you know, Billy Sell was not the the marquee signing, wasn't even the marquee signing in that position.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

No.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Uh he probably wasn't he in fact he wasn't even in the top two marquee signings in that position for Tigers this year because James O'Connor or Leno Bailey would both build as being as being that Billy Sell was a good option. You know, he'd obviously I think he came in came in last season, didn't he? Yeah. Um but his impact this season has been phenomenal. Um left-footed, which is lovely, always love a left-footed kicker, so that's that's a big tick in his favour. But he's he plays with a real um with a real abandon. His try, admittedly, uh, in the face of pathetic defense from Walter. But his try was was was really well taken, you know. He's he's danced around a few half-hearted tacklers, but he's you know, he's he's taken and he's done that sort of thing quite a lot this season. Um you know, uh but how many tens are out of performing in so far in the in the league across across this whole season?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah, yeah. I well it's a good question. Because I I think the reason I flag this, because we've spoken about it in the past, perhaps informally, perhaps off podcast. But behind the current crop of England tens, if he keeps playing the way he does, does he start coming into the conversation at all?

SPEAKER_02 19:33

The guy that feels says international rugby is not in Billy Sell's future. Um purely purely on the a kind of intangible basis. I mean it's hard to really pinpoint what it was what it is he would have to do more more than he is to get into that conversation. Um I think there's I would I would still get the sense that Billy Sell's not the man who's gonna drag the team over the line in a game of real adversity. But He's certain behind that Leicester pack, he's certainly good enough to take full advantage when they're when they're on top. And you know, he's you know, he's got balls like Wolves, you know more. He's he landed a kick to beat Bath. You know, I'm not saying he's he's not he's not clutch at all, but he hasn't qu I don't think he's necessarily got that kind of Owen Farrell, George Ford, Bin Smith, you know, type thing where he's gonna be the absolute difference maker, but from a from a week to week in the league perspective, absolutely perfect profile of 10.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Okay. I always like to think who's England's fifth choice fly half. And I wonder, I wonder if he's in contention for at least that role.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

And I think there's a there's there's an argument for it.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

There's an argument for Billy Soap to be the fifth choice England kicker. Um what a and here's your trophy, Billy. Yeah, Merry Christmas, Billy So. Uh but yes, uh, and you touched it before. Really good to see Van Portfleet and Chesham back, as you say. We've not seen a lot of them this season. It is always good, like even as a Northampton Saints fan. I'm not going to kind of say that I don't want to see these quality players out there playing rugby because I'd I'd rather see them playing than not playing.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Yeah, I mean, obviously, really, really um important from an England perspective to start seeing them playing as well.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Um, but yeah, Oddy Chesham getting a nice try off uh off a really nice Blameier offload. Blameier one who's potentially climbing the ranks again to get back back in England contention. Um I haven't you know had a bit of a taste of it. You know, there's there's not much to criticise from from Leicester so far this season.

Saracens Vs Exeter: Momentum Swings

SPEAKER_01 21:43

So my only criticism of Leicester at the moment is how often would you suspect a Leicester Tigers team who scores six tries and a penalty try, of which neither Ollie Hassel Collins or Adam Radwan are the scorers of any of them. Yeah, interesting. I mean that's um I'm mainly annoyed because I had a bet on uh please don't gamble uh if you are don't wish to.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Please gamble responsibly, please. Please gamble responsibly.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

No, but I had I had something on uh which had either of them to score a try, and neither of them did, and it was very frustrating because it's usually an absolute banker. I remember feeling quite frustrated watching the game because it and I've spotted this with some other teams. I think some teams are not utilising wingers as best as they could do, and I think it's perhaps part of this modern day approach where flankers find themselves out on the flanks of the pitch rather than just the flanks of the scrum, and they're more used to have kind of safe ball, and you find wingers having to be the first man at the ruck on the wings. I saw you saw that quite a lot with Leicester. I've I saw it quite a lot with some other teams as well. Uh it's probably not a big thing. It's definitely not a big thing because they're both actually scoring tries for fun. But something I spotted in this game, I just I just wondered whether we criticised Leicester of this particularly last season and not utilising their wingers. I just hope they don't creep back into that behaviour. Uh or maybe it was just so easy to cut through the gloss of defence that anyone could do it, so they didn't need Radwan or Hassel Collins to do that.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

To be honest, I think that's that might be close to the truth, and that the the gaps at the middle were too were too enticing for them.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Um yeah, why go in the why go in the window when the front door's wide open, eh?

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Exactly, exactly. Um, yeah, I would I would say this that there's a couple points where there's some of the only has got to be on the wingers to get themselves on the ball as well, um and get themselves in the situations. Um sometimes it sometimes the game just doesn't quite work. I mean, with regards to flankers being out wide, I think you've got to um take into account what you're trying to create across the pitch is mass mismatches. And if you've got a flanker, you know, who are the best wide flankers in it? Someone like Ted Hill, potentially speed of a winger, size of a size of a bat rower. You know, your your opportunity to create a mismatch by having him out on the wing is is obvious. So that's that's what it is. You know, it's a bit of a tactical chess in in that sense. Um and then what I guess what you're hoping for is that they can get uh an arm free and an offload to a winger who's hopefully able to take take the opportunity to um to find an offload and find the space. So I don't know that it's necessarily a a problem with that, but you know, yeah, in this game maybe Radwen or Haskellins weren't as prominent, but um you know I was supposed to still score 45 points, I don't think they'll worry too much about it.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah, I don't think they'll be losing sleep, put it that way. Uh yeah, as you mentioned, Rory, Leicester, they they won 45-14, putting on six tries, a penalty try, converting four of them. And that was all we get having a red card as well in the in the final 15 minutes for Charlie Clare. Uh Gloucester. Hopefully, they enjoy have a nice Christmas and they can go again next week because still waiting for that that moment.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Um we we we looked at a pretty miserable camp, to be honest. So I'm I'm not um at the moment, it's it's there's not a lot of optimism for me.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

No, and I I think that's understandable. That's understandable. Let's let's move on, let's save you from this agony. Let's move on to Saracens versus Extra Chiefs. Uh, and this was a really, really interesting game. Uh, with two former powerhouses of the league in Europe facing against each other, uh, and looking at the form books, two teams in very different form. And it kind of went with the form book, I'd say, unexpectedly.

Why Exeter Finish Strong

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Yeah, I mean it didn't look like that early on. Um Sari's got two early tries, Calorey and uh Malins. Calorie's first try is a really good read of Henry Slade, um, stopping a certain break, possible try. Um, and then Malin's so it's nice right at the back of a line out. I think Theodam pops out and and feeds him in, which is which was uh um a nice moment, although they were potentially a little bit lucky to get a second bite of the cherry for the line out, which probably should have been a dummy throw initially. Um at that point, Saris were sort of cruising, I'd say. Um but you know, Chiefs Chiefs sort of kept in the game. I mean, I think having Henry Slade there at the moment, you know, he's kicking kicking so well. Um you know, he got a couple of penalties in the first sort of half an hour, which just sort of took the edge off the Saris' momentum. And that's I think his his kicking off the T has been a real boon for them this season because it's not obviously not half of his skinner's strength by any stretch. Um and then when they got the the Varney try, where I mean Calori ostensibly loses the high ball. I think he's a bit stitched up by Van Zale, who asked him to make up a bit too much, yeah, yeah, a bit too much ground in the backfield. Um, but they managed to um uh to put Varney on the post. I think it's Riddle, I think, who competes with him and debut on debut and gets the ball. Um and so it was it was it was just a very back and forth game. It was quite it was quite entertaining. Watch the momentum did swing back and forth quite a quite a bit. Um but really when um in the sort of last quarter Fizzelow um becomes very prominent, scores two two really good tries, one off a really nice break from Daft Jenkins down the left, yeah, and the other from uh the back of a really strong line at more where they just absolutely battered Saracen's through that one, which not something you see very often at the Stone X. No, and it's sort of all good it's good from if you're an Exter fan, it's good signs that they've got they now look to have lots of strings in their bow again. Yeah, they they were really one-dimensional last season, yeah. But now they've got a pack that's not just competing physically, which is what they were lacking, it's starting to dominate teams as good as Saracens, but they've also got players like Fizzelau, like uh oh the young Italian back rower who knows injured at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Oh, I thought I thought you were gonna you were heading to Sam Boney, uh you were for Ross Vincent.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Vincent, Ross Vincent, Kane James, you know, those those players that they I know, you know, back in that kind of Sam Simmons mould, which they've been um they used so successfully. Players like that are now kind of stepping up are now not just stepping up, but you know, they're thriving at this level. Fizzelau's sort of I think is having his breakthrough moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

It's definitely very prominent. There's something about Exeter and second halves. I saw something, I can't remember the exact extat exactly stats exactly, but um it's something like out of the 20 or so tries they've scored this season, 16 of them have been in the second half or something, something along those lines. So that they're becoming real second half merchants. Like we saw when the Saints game in the very first fixture, they were 31-7 down at halftime and they come back to draw 31-31 or whatever it was. They seem to have something, it's either a mentality, there is a reason he's not getting selected, I guess. Uh, but like I think when you watch them, it's not like I don't think it's a stamina thing, I don't think it's uh necessarily that simple. They look stronger when it comes to the back end back end of the game, so they just absolutely outmuscle teams in the final 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Yeah, well, I think you know, obviously Lenikitao in the centres is is helping that who helps go forward. Um, you know, Fizzelau, I think, is now properly filled out. Yeah, he was. I think he was probably still a bit on the lightweight side even last season, but he looks like he's really filled out. Um do you think Zamboni's a big lad? Jack Daff Jenkins is a big lad. Tom Hooper's obviously coming on and we've got a bit of a daft yellow in this game. Just a just a split. But he's a big but he's a big bloke. Ethan Roots is big, you know. The props are big, Goodrick Clark and Chimbadse.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

I like Chimbadse, I like the look of Chimbadse.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Do we think this year, with the backdrop of Willis leaving, is the year for Borthwick to look at Fizzelow in the England camp a bit closer with how he's playing?

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Well, I mean he's in a very similar mould to Ben O. So I guess my question would be: do you think Fizzel is as good or better than Benal in that position? Because I susp my suspicion is Borthwick probably thinks he's got enough players in the kind of smaller mobile quality, and he's probably looking for someone who can fill the Willis boots, uh, which and those are harder to come by.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Well, yeah, uh, as we saw in this game, he even even when the Sarris are losing, he still manages to look a league of his own. He should he should absolutely trademark these barnstorming runs because no one else seems to do them like he does.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

I'd honestly he just flattens people, and he's I don't know, every week I watch him and he suddenly looked bigger.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

He's getting ready for France, Rory, he's getting ready for France.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Honestly, just just around his like neck and jaw and shoulders, he just every week he just suddenly looks like he's just just growing.

Saints Thrash Sale: Pollock And Hendy Shine

SPEAKER_01 30:57

I do wonder if there's something there, because I as a man who looks at the stats, Tom Willis used to be guaranteed 80-minute every week. These last three, four rounds, he's a player who's now getting subbed at the 60-minute mark. So I don't know whether there's a actual decision being made to beef him up even more, make him even more impactful with the idea of then subbing him off so he so he can still go and empty his tank, but he doesn't need to empty his tank for 80 minutes anymore. He can afford that bit of extra muscle, bit of bit more beef on him, and do it for 60 minutes instead. Maybe nothing, but it's just something as a man who looks at the numbers, you notice these things. Uh, and especially when you play fantasy rugby and he's often your captain, I'd rather he played 80 minutes than 60, but even when he plays 60 minutes, he's still absolutely he still stat pads pretty comfortably. Like if you look at the stats for this season, a defender's beaten column just single-handedly, he he's in first place on 52, uh, second place is in the 20s. Um he is uh a force, he's a freak, a freak when it comes to stat padding and um just batting down defensive lines. There's no one else who can do it like him in the Prem, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

I mean, he's he's physically so different to really anyone else in this league. I there's there's no one else of that kind of size, and I I can't remember the last time there was a player of that size or that to that.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

I mean Pickamole for his one year at Northampton.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah, but he wasn't he wasn't exactly Barnstorming.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Manoa at Northampton. I'll try not to name just Northampton players.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Yeah, Manoa's Manoa's probably close. I mean, maybe maybe Nick Easter, but he wasn't as tall. Yeah, I not quite.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

We can't go as far back as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bill Matter's not too far off, I'd say, when he's a Bill, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Bill, actually, that's a good point. That's a good point. Bill Bill Matter's definitely in that in that kind of cat camp as well. Um, but it's if you use it well, it's bloody effective.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Yeah, yeah. But unfortunately, Saracens didn't use it well enough because they still at the Stonex, and not for the first time this season, lost at home. Um Yeah, I mean, I think we've maybe talk about it on the on the future pod.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Yeah, we'll talk about it next week as well. Uh yeah, but something for me isn't quite clicking with that Saris team. And I don't know exactly um don't know exactly what it is. I couldn't I couldn't put my finger on it when I was watching it, but something doesn't feel like they're firing all cylinders. Um and I'm not sure if it's because they they look a bit looser in defence, you know. They look easier to score against than they they have done, really, even in some of the leaner years since they had their heyday, they look easier to score against than they than they ever did. Um the line out isn't as tight as you would expect from Saracens, and I think Theodan has to be kind of pinpointed for that at this point. You know, their set piece isn't the the guaranteed source of of possession it it would it you would expect for Saracens. Yeah, um and then I I think there's in some positions they're just lacking a bit of energy and a bit of zip. Um you know I've never been wholly convinced that Van Ziel is the top quality nine that a team like this needs. No, I've I felt that as well. I'm wondering if they would profit more from just backing Charlie Bracken at this point.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Back Bracken, you heard it here.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

I'd I'd back Bracken. Um yeah, it's I don't know, I it's it's it's not an easy one to pinpoint, but something just doesn't quite line up for me in that Saris team at the moment. I'm not quite sure exactly what it is, but maybe it's just a bit of a bit of energy.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Yeah, well, I I sense it as well. I I still think on their day they are very, very good and very very entertaining to watch, which is really odd because I've never used to think of Saracens being an entertaining team to watch. Um, but ever since they've started to try and back some of these younger players, uh a bit more enjoyable to watch, I think, which is good. Yeah, um, but still, uh, I think you're right that they used to be a team that if you went behind to them, you had no chance in hell of clawing it back because they would absolutely suffocate you, and they don't have that anymore, they don't have that aura. Um yeah, it's a lack of aura, it's a definite lack of aura now. Yeah, and X to expose that, they they went away and they won the game 30 points to 24, uh, getting a bonus point, even despite having two yellow cards, uh, were still able to beat the mighty Saracens at their home turf. Uh, but moving on swiftly, Rory. The other Saturday, 3 pm kickoff. A lovely little canter.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

David, just just a moment before we did that, is the Prem making a mistake having two 3 pm kickoffs on a Saturday?

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Well, so they they make this point of saying every single game is televised. But they still insist on having two games on at the same time. For what reason, I don't know. If you're gonna make the point of having every game televised, why not just have them at different kickoff times and you know spread it through the weekend?

SPEAKER_02 36:03

But also it's it's clashing with I mean you're clashing with not just community the community game, but you're clashing with all the football as well. I know they don't I know there's a 3pm blackout, but you know, it's when people go and watch the football.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Yeah, like there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't change the Saturday game. So one's a 2 pm kickoff and one's a half five kickoff. Like, there's no reason they couldn't do that. Uh so people can even if people are part of the community game, they can still catch the half five game, for example. Uh like it doesn't make sense. I'm sure someone somewhere in a gravy tie would be able to give us a good reason why it's still that way. Um, but it's it screams RFU council, even though we know it probably has nothing to do with it. Uh it does seem like a missed opportunity, uh, especially if they're gonna sing and shout about having every game televised, we'll actually televise it. Yeah, um, because this one is because especially with the rise of PWR, who also play games at this time, this particular weekend, and I'm very glad that this happened. But the Quinn's Bears women game was on the main TV channel, and the two rugby games were on Discovery Plus.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Yes, well I'm you know, and I say we'll talk about a bit more later, but I was I was at that and it was you know it was a great occasion to be at.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

But it is it is a bit strange that if you're gonna champion both of those leagues and they're gonna have conflicting fixtures, why not put games on multiple channels? They didn't even do that. They they they had it all behind on the red button or on Discovery Plus. So maybe a bit more thinking, a bit more discussions needed with the broadcaster, who knows? But you've done a good job there of stalling me in my stride as I geared myself up for the summary of the Gurjaloins the Northampton Saints versus the Sail Sharks at the Sidge Stadium at Franklin's Gardens. And uh where do I start? Uh well start at the beginning. Well, once upon a time there was a young lad with blonde hair and a band around his head and a lovely little bit at the back of his hair who goes by the name of Henry. Now Henry decided on this day to show everyone how he's still a very good rugby player. So there's more rugby gruffler. I can't keep this up for an entire game of summary. Uh basically the Northampton started fast. They started with intent and they put points on for fun uh and really put sail to the sword. The likes of Henry Pollock, George Hendy, were stupendous uh in this game in general. They really really George Hendi.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

We haven't we haven't done a bit on the ginger flash for a while.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Well, I I saw he's he's being nicknamed in some news outlets as the ginger penno, which that's that's don't hate it, but don't hate it, but I prefer ours. I prefer ours. Ginger flash is better, but I think Ginger Penno being kind of cast in a similar light to Damien Penno is by no means a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Uh no, no, absolutely, absolutely. And there is something similar about their their style, they're quite quite languid in their movement, quite languid, quite bandy-legged in some ways.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

And that sidestep of Hendy, there he absolutely left. I think it was Aaron Reed, I think it was Aaron Reed, or Tom Moflah, just for nothing. That summarizes George Hendy's elusiveness like no other. Because and I think fair play to the commentators because they described it well, it's just the fact that the the distance the sidestep covers is so vast it's impossible to get it right as a defender, and it just makes them grasping at thin air.

Sale’s Identity Without Ford

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Uh it was we discussed this at great length earlier this year. Yeah. I mean, he's he's he's a Frankenstein player of all the bits of of a human you wouldn't put in your classic rugby physique. But whatever it is that there is some absolute magic dust in the way he's built that just makes him so effective. I mean, I I th I really liked his. I mean, I think that trial was very good, the one the with the sidestep. I really liked his um his first one where he's just sort of fed the ball and just somehow finds a gap. To run it in from 30 metres through you know eight defenders and no one seems to realise he's going there.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

It's it's yeah, he's one of these players that has the he has a that natural knack to break tackles, um which you know I'm I'm really pleased he's in a Saints shirt. And I I do wonder whether he plays a part into the furbank decision making of him leaving um because obviously Hendy can play at fullback. There's elements to his game that needed some work at fullback, but uh he's certainly exciting going forwards. Uh I'd I also would like to draw attention to a man who quite often goes a bit underrated, but as spoken about as others, but probably one of our better signings in recent years, Josh Kemene. That try.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

That try was that was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Yeah, we spoke about something. Yeah, we spoke about Catter in the Leicester game, it being an open kind of route through and easy for him. Kemene did not have an open route through. He beat about six defenders, and he again not a great showing for Aaron Reid's defensive uh showing here, but again, left him clasping at air.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

And when you're not when you're six is doing that, Aaron Reid. Yeah, I feel a little for Aaron and Reed that he is filling in at fullback in a lot of ways. But I mean, I mean, the important thing firstly, it comes off another really good handy break.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

And then it's a great line from Kemene. It's a proper screamer, so he's he steps. I I had it as he steps for Mueller, Man Reen, uh, Luke Cowendicke, and then Aaron Reid to get under the line.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

I mean, that is a those first three names, those first three names are usually top of attacking stats at the end of the year.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

So just left them all for dead, and he was you know, he looked comfortable doing it. Yeah, yeah. I would I'm you know, that is a player that if you keep it around, you should because his his a he is quietly effective in most games, but if he can pull out the odd moment like that as well, he is something special to think about.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think and the other angle from a Saints perspective, uh, and as you can probably see, listener. Actually, no, that didn't make sense. Listener, you can't see, but if you're watching a clip, you'll see there's a little Saints shirt behind me, so I am a little bit biased, but it was so just having Tommy Freeman and Ollie Sleitholm to come off the bench.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Yeah, I did want to bring this up to you because uh I think you know that there's you've talked a lot about kind of the injury issues the Saints have gone through, but the fact that those two are now back in contention for squads, how are you feeling about Saints um going into the into the second uh second part of the season?

Big Game: Quins’ Malaise And Bristol’s Bite

SPEAKER_01 42:27

I'm feeling real good, Rory. I'm not gonna lie, because we've had it's most of last season was quite rocky with injuries. It I think we're coming into the first time in probably maybe eight, nine months, where our unavailable list is just a handful of players. It's been a long time since that's been the case. So being able to go into games now, being able to relatively pick at full fitness, like this week we were able to rest um Hutchinson, for example. Like he's he's played a lot of rugby, but we've been able to give him a week off. Uh we've been able to give Bello a couple of extra weeks to recover from injury. So, like, there's players who in the past we would have had to really rely on, they're getting a bit of a break. Uh, and I'm really glad to see that the likes of Toby Tame, although he had a Rocky-ish start to his prem career, he's starting to look like he may well be at this level, took his try well.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Um I think so. I I I I mean another resist from Pollock as well, which is nice to see. Yeah, um, I he looks I know he was very well talked about as someone to watch out for this season. Physically, he looks a good prospect. You know, he's a big tall lad. Um, be interesting to see how how he develops, but he's the right sort of shape for a Saints back. Yeah. He seems to be in the right kind of app of the kind of players that you look for. Um, but yeah, I mean, you know, I'm just look I'm looking at the squad as it was as it was now. So and the bench is what I think is really interesting. You know, the fact they had Fisketti on the bench, Chunya Munger on the bench, Callum Chick on the bench, Tom James back on the bench. I think you know Friend of the Pod, Archie McParlans, had a bit to say this season, but it's he's not maybe taken his opportunity really to establish himself. Um and Tom James, I think, is an underrated um scram-off option. Yeah, and then yeah, Freeman and Slight Home is your your your other two black options. It's it's a good 23. Um, you know, Curtis Lambden's maybe the name, the name that really stands out as being the one missing, but so I would say at one point, yeah, he's really stepped up. I can't remember who it was who he flattens, but there's someone he absolutely runs. It might have been Quirk, yeah, and I think he actually flattens Curry as well. And I'm thinking, yeah, as I recall, I think he bat batters over Quirk and then over Curry. Yeah, yeah. I remember watching Craig Wright at under-20 level and thinking he was a powerful prospect.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

He he he was the under-20 hooker who a couple of years ago, there was like that viral clip going where he was just wheels and just he was absolutely gassed. I think it was like the Welsh under-20s winger. He has filled out massively, he is just a ball of muscle. So I think he's playing himself to be Langdon's understudy when everyone's fully fit easily and comfortably, um, which is really good to see. And I also I feel I would feel absolutely uh devastated if I was to go this entire game and not mention that I think Tom Pearson's quietly been our player of the season so far this season as well. He's been superb, been superb.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

I I really like Tom Pearson. I think you know he's been when when fit, he's been one of the most consistent back rows for a couple of years. But having been he's the he's the sort of dap, you know, there's the the height of him. Do you think there's got to be something in that because you think of players physically, he's he is comfortably in the kind of mould of someone like a piece of Steph DeToy. Not saying he's he's necessarily as good a player, you know, before any of that build jumps, but he's physically that build, and he carries, so and he's surprisingly quick.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Yeah, I think this season we're seeing more glimpses of Pearson in the London Irish shirt in that season before they went kaputt, which was when he won player of the season, I think, or breakthrough player, but he was he was some player, and I was so excited we got him, and I think we're starting to see glimpses of that in a Saints shirt more and more now. So long may that continue. Um, we should probably touch on sharks a little bit. Uh, I think we're seeing how important George Ford is to them. Certainly in the first half, they looked absolutely aimless in attack.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

The f the first half is as poor a performance as I've seen from anyone other than Gloucester this season. Okay, I'm just saying I'm going too footed on Gloucester at the moment, so I'm really disappointed. Um, no, first half they were dreadful. They they looked tactically, they were completely lost, they kicked abysmally. Um, you know, which obviously, you know, George Ford not being there is is a big problem for them. I grant them that. Um, but they they gave Saints so many counter-attacking opportunities off their kicking, either by not kicking it far enough off the pitch to prevent the quick throw, or just not making it off the pitch. Yeah, yeah. Um, I think at least one penalty didn't go off, it might have been more than that. Um, but the real problem, and it's not something you would say about sale team too often, they lacked energy. Yeah, they're not gonna be able to do that. They looked really um not up.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Do you think that's as a result we spoke of last week the tackling numbers, the defensive work they've done over the last two rounds of the European Champions Cup, that must have taken something out of them. Because they didn't they didn't seem to have the same energy as they did, say, when they were playing Clermont the week before.

The Ellis Genge 50-Metre Special

SPEAKER_02 47:43

No, it I think I think that is definitely part of it. I also think there's an there's an extent to which you can only live on that kind of energy for so long. At some because they're I think they're trying to surmount their current injury crisis by that kind of backs to the wall, us against the world kind of tackle tackle us at um tackle us to victory kind of energy. And you know, it's it's an energy I love it when teams go to that. I think I think when Saris were at their peak, that was when they were at their best, when they were in that kind of energy. And I know it's not going to be a popular sentiment, but I thought when Saris were at their everyone hates us and we don't care kind of energy, and we're just gonna we're gonna batter you through strength of will, that was at Saris at their best, and I think Alex Sanderson, being a veteran of that setup, has tried to bring that to sale and has done it effectively a lot. You know, bear in mind the the runner games they went on to get to the final last year, you know, he's good at bringing that kind of siege mentality, but there is I there has to be a finite amount of time that you can live off that because there's only so many ways you can motivate a team into that um into that frame of mind. At some point they need to go into a game feeling like relaxed and comfortable and like they're better than the team they're playing against, rather than we're just we're just gonna beat them through strength of will rather than believing we're better players, yeah. Um, and you know, this there's a bit of a I'm just interpreting from from the outside looking in, right? So I could be way off the mark. I get the impression that you know, combined with the injury crisis, they are just trying to get by on that siege mentality alone, and me, it's a finite resource.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Yeah, no, I think you're quite right. And unfortunately, so this game ended 47-21 uh to Northampton. Uh continuing sales, poor runner form in this competition. I know it's I know it's uh early days and they can still do what they did last year and surge back up the table, but uh they're certainly giving themselves one hell of an uphill battle if they want to redo that, and as you say, with their injury problems, it doesn't look likely. Uh but they were playing up against a very red hot Northampton on the day. Moving on to Harlequins versus Bristol at the Allianz Stadium. Rory, I believe you were there in person. So, as always, we do like an in-person review, despite it being particularly foggy.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

I yeah, I was there, it is a little foggy. Um speaking of poor runs of form, Harlequins are right down the dawdrums with I mean, to be honest, of of the teams at the bottom of the table, say old Quinn's, Gloucester, and Newcastle, there's not a huge amount between them, actually, in terms of performance at the moment. Um, but Quinn's Quinn's may have been the worst of the lot this weekend, and that's saying a lot given that Gloucester game. Yeah, um I I thought Quinn's were dreadful in this match.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

Um it's just there's there's not a lot positive to say about Quinn's at the moment, uh, and there hasn't been for some time. I can't quite put my finger on it, and we've we've been having this trouble to put our finger on it for well, I think I think maybe it's the curse of his podcast, because it feels like since the start of the podcast, they've really been starting they've really struggled to be the great entertainers they're built to be. And the fact that they put on this massive show, yeah, and to then go out and play like that, and I know Quinn's fans agree with us, they are not happy with what's going on with that club at the moment, and rightfully so.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

It it looks like a pretty um bleak place to be. I mean, you know, it's the parallels between Quinn's and Gloucester at the moment are really, really strong in terms of what it looks like from the outside looking in. Um, they've got the same curse, they can't finish off a move, they're even less efficient in the 22 than Gloucester. This game in particular was comical at points. Uh what I was watching it, you know. I said I go I go pretty much every year to big game. As uh my one of my oldest mates is um uh is a big Quinn's fan, so I tend to go with him and it and his family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um it's been a real struggle for me for many years. Um, so you know, he's he's I wouldn't say he's as one-eyed as uh as your average Saints fan, but he's uh he's up in that bracket as a Quinn's fan. Um but even even he was going into this with real lack of optimism and very early on, I mean the revuvo try early on was pretty significant. It was just so easy. Um it was so easy for Bristol in this game, and Quinn's couldn't keep hold of a ball, and they were so inaccurate, you know. Given the the level of quality in that team, you know, players we've really raped. Obviously, Marcus Smith is the obvious one, right? Yeah, yeah. And there are points when he's just trying to do it all himself, but mostly just a complete lack of support around him. Luke Northmore, you know, lobster claws for hands on on this occasion. Um, Oscar Beard, not much better. Uh Charler Cunningham South, really ineffective, I thought.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

And annoyingly, I think he was played at eight in this game, and I've been championing to see him at eight, and then he doesn't. I thought the arm ob curse might work in his favour, but not this week. No, no, um, really poor.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

Um strange selection decisions, not picking Will Evans. Yeah, I was gonna say Zach Zach Carr looked okay. Look, I Zach Carr, you can see he's got that real uh enthusiasm of a player who's been having his breakthrough season and is determined to make an impact. Yeah, but what I would say is you have to reward that, I get that. But I for me it was a real error not starting Will Evans and Jack Kenningham in this game against a Bristol team that you know you have to slow the ball down. Just a bizarre, just a bizarre selection decision. And there's amongst a few that Quinn's have had this season, yeah. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. And questions have to be asked of the selection policy and just the coaching team at this point because they don't look coached, they don't they don't look coached at all. Um they look they basically look a bit all at sea. They don't really I I can't decipher a plan, and it's it's not like Quinn's at their best a few years ago when it was you can't decipher a plan, but that you know you've got to beautiful mind it and see the see the plan in the chaos kind of thing. Yeah is now just they just seem to be running in lots of different directions, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

I I I think that's I think that's it. And this is so this was another game, so I was watching Caden Merley quite closely just to see like how wings go. And he was putting effort in to try and get on the end of moves, never never got the ball. I think he made two carries the entire game. Uh which when you're Caden Merley, you may as well not have him on the pitch because that's what he's there for.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

So I and I feel for Merley, is I I think he's he's one of those who has stepped up this season. I stepped up as a captain in several things, including in this game. You know, you can see that he's you can see how much he cares about what's going on and that he's really, really uh invested. But he's being badly let down by the rest of that team at the moment. Um yeah, it's just just just a difficult watch for a Queens fan. Um I got I've got I've got to come back to some of the selection issues, right? So obviously a couple of dropouts in the loose head, they start Hobson loose and Harry Williams at tight head. Now, you know, you know that if you're gonna if you give Bristol launch pad off set piece, particularly the scrum, how dangerous they are off the ball in hand. Why would you not start Boris Vainger and Delgado? I I don't try and get parity or upper hand in the scrum.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

They've not done that in a single game this year, so I'm really wondering are they just showing nothing in training, meaning that they can't justify selecting them first, or are they just I I don't get it either. They've not started those two together once.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

I don't understand it. I I get it. If you've got Finn Baxter and Harry Williams there to start, then okay, I can I can see that because they're they're they're good scrummagers. But why are you starting your youth team, Lou said, when you could start the two Argentinians there?

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Yeah, I will say and interject there that I thought Will Hobson around the park looked mighty hungry to impress.

SPEAKER_02 56:01

Yeah, he got around the park, but I'd take your pick. Again, the same same thing as that car. Look, I get it, you've got to re reward these players, but you've also got to pick a team to win a game. And I don't think quins are doing that.

Bath’s Bench Bomb And Newcastle’s Fight

SPEAKER_01 56:11

You know they know, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, the way Quinns are going, if they had done that and picked Will Evans, I still think they wouldn't have beaten this bear side. I think they were still they were poor, they were really, really poor. They were really poor. And I think the moment that we have to talk about, our fans would not be pleased if we didn't touch on this. We'd we'd be run out of town. We'd be run out of town, you'd lose your crown. We're talking Ellis Genj, and we're talking that 50 meter glorious run-in.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

I mean, it was a it was a real I was there moment. Yeah. I mean, to be in the stadium to see it, I was out of my seat. It was it's so special. Um, for for lots of reasons. I mean, I love Ellis Genj. I'm a I'm a I've always loved Ellis Genj. I'm an I'm an absolute Ellis Genge apologist at every opportunity. I think he's getting better with age. I think he's really in his in his prime at the moment, um, both as a personality in the game and as a player. The fact that he had to go off had um well, sorry, went off and then had to come back on after 10 minutes and was still everywhere. You know, he was so like he was so involved, it was and it was really noticeable how how involved he is, right? His fitness level is sky high at the moment. He physically he is, he's on another planet, uh another props almost. And I I can't think of another loose head off the top of my head who's as fit as him and around the park.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Maybe Angus Bell, maybe Finn Baxter, but he was injured in this game, so maybe not. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 57:41

But the fact so Elis Genji, so he's in the backfield, you know, maybe taking his foot off the gas for a minute at that at that moment in time, but what he gets kicked out. I think it's uh was it Randall that takes it?

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Yeah, I think it was. I think yeah, I think Randall was on by that point.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

Yeah. Um, and chucks it back in who to Elis Genji. She stood there, and I I I imagine this from my perspective, had that been thrown to me. Now I don't have Ellis Genge's pace or power or ability. Um, I would have been in pure panic mode when that if that ball didn't pass to me in space in the backfield with a you know 50 metres to run run at the line. I'd be looking for the nearest contact or a quick offload.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

Ellis Genj, head down, uh, skins Lucas Friday, which if there was ever a physical mismatch in this game, it was that one. Um and then just just keep going. I think I think it's Marcus Smith who tries to make the the covering tackle right in the corner at the end. Yeah, I can't remember. Um it's either Marcus Smith or Nick David. By that point, Ellis Genja's reached sort of terminal velocity. Yeah, he's he's he's not being stopped. Um I mean, points off for an a not more elaborate tri celebration. I'd like to see I'd like to pull out a Pollock. Yeah, yeah, that'd be nice. But the smile on his face afterwards. I mean, do you know the only the only smile I've seen similar to that was Kieran Treadwell the week week before against Bayon for the for the um cross kick? There's there's nothing that amuses me more than when a forward has done something they know that they're in no way picked to do an attack, and it's you can't help but enjoy it. It's one of the reasons why I love this sport, and similar, I guess, to why I love like cricket, is there's when there's an acknowledgement amongst all players on the pitch when someone does something that's insane and you can just have a laugh about it. I love you can see real joy in his face, and the Bristol players were going mad about it as well, which I love to see. Rightfully so. Yeah, a proper I was there moment. I mean it's it's gonna live long on the highlight reels, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 59:49

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I saw that stats that I think someone went back like five years of the times props have run in tries uh in open play, and I think the the greatest distance could. covered of of that amount have all been done by Ellis Genge like the top ten times it's happened. Yeah. So he's definitely in a league of his own about what he does in that in that popping show.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Pacewise, when we were growing up pace wise, he would be similar speed to a lot of very top level bat rows when we were growing up.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Oh for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Definitely. You know he's probably about the same pace as Delalia was.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Yeah yeah like he's he's no blow coach. Like he's got a bit of a bit of gas to him as well. And you know and he's just a bundle of muscle. So fair play to Ellis Gench giving us a real special moment. Yeah and like Bristol they feel like injuries are starting to wane their players are coming back.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

Interesting to see how they push on the rest of the season outside bet for top four maybe when it comes to season um I'm not even sure they're necessarily an outside bet to be honest David I mean so at the moment they're they're fifth having won five games and lost two I mean given the injury crisis they had that is remarkable um so I mean they've beaten uh they've beaten Northampton yeah the Northampton C team yeah but they still won they did still win convincingly um yeah they lost away at Bath fair enough who doesn't and and they lost away at Saracens in the first couple of weeks of the season when their injury crisis was was already pretty pretty significant but they've beaten tigers uh they've you know they beat Gloucester away you know again when their their injury crisis was very significant they beat Chiefs at home yeah who doesn't but we didn't know that at that point um they've beaten uh beaten Chiefs at home and you know or that's at the time we didn't know how good Chiefs were going to be this season but that's more than Northampton have done exactly um and now they've won away a big game you know as well as winning their first two games in the Champions Cup. Yeah yeah I don't think they're outside bet for top four I think they're right in the mixer for it because you know you've got I mean Bath you know we're all assuming are going to be runaway leaders at this point. Chiefs and Saints have if the the same record um but there's still part of me that thinks Chiefs are more likely to fall away a bit just off just off a lack of that I think you know outside of Henry Slade and obviously Jack Yendel they don't have that knowledge of how you how you reach the the final at the prem you know what I mean the um for the big run in. So part of me feels like I mean it's not guaranteed because you know they're they're defying all expectations already this season so it could well be wrong. But part of me thinks Chiefs may fall away in the second half of the season I don't think Saints will assuming the injuries don't get don't get bad again. And then Tigers look like they're gonna be well in the mix and then you've got Bristol and Saracens. Saracens have been um well out of it for me for the last few weeks maybe they'll turn it around but with Bristol with the way they're playing the players they got back I think they've got as good a chance as Saracens Tigers and Chiefs certainly yeah I I can't disagree with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

I can't disagree with you and then this gate they cover you up 40 points to 14 away and a big big game for Harlequins um yeah it's a it's a real real statement of intent I think from Bristol and a real statement of the opposite of intent from Harlequins. And then moving on from that game Rory we move to the Red Bulls up against the mighty bath up at Kingston Park another sellout for Newcastle which is you know I think fifth sell out in a row which is big news but I I think this it's a story as old as time this one it's it's water we've crossed many times the bath bench the bath pack yeah yeah they brought on eight subs at once so that's yeah let's let's just put that into some context you know the subs they brought on let me just run through them uh Tom Dunn I think record cap holder for bath um at stallwater the of the Prem.

PWR Round-Up And On-The-Ground Notes

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

Ben Ubano um in and around England caps one of the best loose heads in the league Thomas DeToy shout for one of the best players in the world uh Ed Hill maybe the most intriguing athlete in the league and of an England international Sam Underhill arguably the best seven in in England Ben Spencer arguably the best nine in England uh Cam Redpath uh son of an international all Scotland international hundreds of bath caps uh and Alfie Barbary best haircut in the league best haircut in the league um and one of the most explosive ball carriers in the league um you know probably behind only Willis and Matter for explosive eights in the league yeah for power yeah for power just for power alone and they brought all eight of them on at once now I won't go I won't go through the um Red Bull's bench in the same way because I don't I don't have a backstory for a lot of them no it doesn't doesn't quite read the same but yeah the bath bombs the bath bombs were in full effect and were fizzing they were when they came off. But let's let's you know and the first team's no slouches either you know it's obviously it was a rotated side but it's there's a lot of very good players in there. Halftime Red Bulls 14 Bath 19 and I would first 10-15 minutes Newcastle were looking pretty good. They were um and I would say you know you could argue that Bath were maybe a little bit fortunate to get all three of those tries yeah in some ways um a bit against particularly the first frost one I thought was a bit against the run of play yeah and they get a they get a scrum pen which is a bit unfortunate because actually up to that point Red Bulls were scrummaging quite well and getting certainly getting parity and then just seem to get it wrong um in that one scrum just lost concentration and then they kick to the corner and they maul it over which is sort of a bit of a bit of a story of the Red Bulls season at times just lack of concentration at the at the wrong time killing them when when they're performing well but that first half Red Bulls I thought really good leather barrel's try after three minutes was great. I mean it's I've said before the Leather Barrow may be my favourite surname in the league but uh he was excellent. Maffey scoring a try uh off the back of a lineup mall I mean I'd say he's potentially got off the boil a little bit yeah it wasn't from the start of the season it was a relatively quiet game by his standards I'd say but but but most most number eights up against that bath back where you usually do have quiet games. Yeah but they I mean at that point when Maffey goes over I think they'd coughed up maybe three red zone opportunities and not scored. Yeah and that's really where the crux of it is for Red Bulls they don't score tries when they've got opportunities um and actually to be honest it's a tail of all the teams at the bottom of that league at the moment maybe barring sale but certainly Red Bulls Gloucester and Quinn's the thing that's killing them is they can't yeah they can't score when they get opportunities in the red zone and I would you I'm sure you'll have um more idea on the stats than me I would imagine those three are by some distance least efficient in the 22.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:15

Yeah I don't have the numbers but I would imagine they are the bottom three when it comes to red zone efficiency. Quinns I know are the worst. Yeah yeah well they were awful this weekend but yeah I've yeah Newcastle will be kind of either ninth or tenth if they're well if Quinn's a tenth they'll be ninth because they they can get to those positions they just don't have that finesse that cutting edge to get over the line they don't quite have that um they have the odd moment as we saw with Leather Barrows try that was it was a lovely line he ran um but that doesn't happen anywhere near enough if you want to be competing in these sorts of games uh and I think although I said that the Newcastle looked good I've said it before and I'll say it again there's this inevitability around Bath they don't necessarily play the prettiest rugby they don't necessarily play the most exuberant attacking style of rugby but they definitely play the most effective style of winning games of rugby although in their defense the um Ben Spencer's try where they go end to end off the kickoff that was quite lovely. So that was good but I saw I think when games are closed there's no it's no surprise that their first four tries are all scored by front rowers.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:21

They play percentage rugby right they they they they are they are a team in the image of their coach who is a hard nosed South African form of back row yeah it's you know he he has built a team in his image and in it you know in a very classic South African image where maybe there's more attacking percent potential there than is being utilized but whatever they're doing is effective.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

Yeah yeah and you know as a Saints fan who gets to play them next week I'm so glad they have the opportunity to arrest a load of players uh and still come away with five points yeah that's good for them isn't it yeah um yeah I thought Santi Carreras looked better at 10 than Finn Russell has done though yeah well Finn Russell's not had a great season at 10 we spoke about it already Sante world class player yeah he can play he's world class at 10 or 15 and he showed it uh he was he was more than capable at moving Bath around with that efficiency and that ruthlessness so yeah by no means what this was this was a weak Bath team it was definitely a rotated bath team Ewan Richards again looking really good in the loose Ethan Stadden had another good game really liking the look of Ewan Richards yeah um his carrying the loose I mean I'd be interested to see what his stats are physically sort of height wise weight wise because this which David's gonna look look up for us now I I think if he can get to something in the region of 125 kg 120 125 kg at with the and retain his kind of ability yeah he's a real prospect. Yeah so the number I've got is probably the wrong number because it usually comes in pre-season when they're weighed in with incorrect scales but he's around the 110 115 mark and he's at 198 centimetres so he's he's got the height yeah uh how and how old is he now is he 21 22 well so he's 23 he's 23 so he's 23 he's slightly older than you think but he's still young enough to be considered an up and comer in my opinion yeah so he's probably at the age where he's more or less gonna mature physically I'd want him at this age to be really pushing to be the first team second row for Bath and I said it last year that I'd like to see that happen more hopefully we do um because I I I agree I think he's fantastic yeah he's I I think just looking at him now I would say he does need to bulk up in the upper body just just as just on the eye test. Not because I don't think he's a big strong knock as he obviously is but I'd say if you're gonna compete in um the kind of level that he I would like him to just just on the size of him he probably just needs to be a little bit more like a physical freak up top but I think he's got I think he's got the frame to do that it's just whether it suits his game um it's I suppose that's a question because is he more of an Alex Coles who himself like he's not a huge upper body like muscle lock he's quite a slight bit like Maratogi or do you go down the route of trying to be like a Charlie Yules or just an absolute slab of South African meat. It'll be interesting to see where he goes but I think in terms of uh his future he's got the world at his feet as far as I consider but he's at the right club he's at the right age and he's certainly got an eye for a gap and an eye for a game and he's he's really good. But that game let's let's not dwell too much of that game it's just it's another shellacking for the Red Bulls at home. The fans still keep turning up lots of noise about all the signings that are going to be coming their way but for now it's another 50 points conceded but they managed to pick up two tries of their own so you know it's not all bad news.

Round Eight Predictions And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

So that's how round seven fared Rory before we move on to round eight should we do a little run through of the PWR who had their own round eight that weekend and I know let's touch it because you were at the Allianz you were there for the PWR game the Harlequins ladies Bristol Bears women little little run through from yourself on the PWR maybe yeah absolutely so um yeah first PWR game I've been I've been at this season which was uh which was nice to you know a really nice particularly nice to go and um see a team that had uh Ellie Kildun in uh Lucy Packer you know it really you know there were some real stars on show Ifa Wafer who was great um Claudia Pena who Ellie Kildone got player of the match which she scored a great individual try and she was obviously you know she was brilliant as Ellie Kildone is Claudia Pena actually would have been my shout for for player of the match on on this occasion she was phenomenal in the centres um but it was it was good I mean I don't know what the they were due to do kind of a an attendance um they did they tot up the attendance at half time um in the game I did I missed it if they did announce it they were going for a record I'm not sure if they quite made it or not but I would imagine it was something approaching 2000 people watching this one. Yeah um you know Harlequins looked good and you know they've they've had an average ish start to the season by their standards I would say they started slowly but they've picked up form they picked up they've won their last three on the bounce so they're you know they're in good form now um and with the the addition of E4Wai for coming back from injury they've now probably got the power up front to start competing and not just relying on kind of magic moments from Elie Kildun. Yeah yeah um which has probably been the tail of the season so far. Bristol pretty disappointing um outing from them if we're nice um Abby Ward wasn't particularly prominent um Sarah Byrne wasn't brilliant Hannah Botterman wasn't brilliant when she came on you know handling wise they were they they were pretty um disappointing yeah um I would say nice try from Millie David though and yeah that's that would have been that's probably the the positive for them that was a particularly good try um but for Quinn's you know it's it's it's a good result because you know Bristol aren't a team that you can completely discount in this league um but they you know fairly routine in some ways for Quinn's but they're you know the momentum for them is really you know really going the right direction yeah um but and again you know just a good game to be at because you know players like Ellico don't come alive under those in those kind of big moments yeah you see you see the best of you see the best of it don't you uh and how about the rest of the fixtures of the PWR uh I think the rest of kind of going as you'd sort of expect Rory maybe going as you expect I mean Saracens have now won I think six on the bounce since their their uh I think it was the opening round loss against Gloucester Hartbury. Yeah uh no it might be the second round loss and they've now won six on the bounce they play they're they're top having played one more game than than everyone else so I think they must be their bye week coming up um but the looks like the Canadian um girls have really settled in and uh you know you can see where they were a bit shaky at the start of the season. Not so much anymore. Not so much now you know um so I would uh I'd expect to see that momentum continue and the next time Gloucester Hartbury and Saracens play each other is going to be one worth watching. Yeah um you know the likes of Olivia Olivia Apps who I saw absolutely dump someone out of the game they're on a break really really good tackle from her um very much uh imposing herself on the on the game Alicia Corrigan in the background and Sophie de Goodie not playing this week but still you know you've still got the likes of Marley Packer playing in there just yeah still still dominating um so Sarison's form is still red hot uh high scoring draw Loughborough Lightning and Trailfinders women uh drawing 29 all which is an interesting result um couple of interesting teams I mean I would say probably two teams that are I think they're well matched well matched and probably treading water a little bit at the moment they've got there's good players in both both squads but um definitely treading water sales sharks are probably the biggest underachievers this year particularly with the big sign of Holly Herson yeah they'd be the ones that are treading water um uh they're underperform I should say um and the league's kind of real struggles this year Leicester Tigers allowing Gloucester to get some good news this year um who racked up 75 points despite taking a heavily rotated side um to take the last uh that was a real show of force I felt yeah I mean you know if you look through the the Gloucester heartbreed team you know there's some there's some some recognisable you know CC Tupelot who played played tight heads um Pip Hendy played on one wing Mia Venna Emma Singh so a good back three Neve Jones on the bench um but it's a few players were given a go this week and they still won a you know a real canter um so Gloucester Hartbury continuing their march they're seven from seven uh this season you know I would it all hinges it all hinges on how saracens match up to them doesn't it yeah if if saracens have fully integrated those those canadian players when next time they come to meet that's a that's a real matchup um but at the moment it's hard to look past Gloucester Hartbury I think they're just they've just got so much so much about them um but you know so going into into the uh into the final round of the year so saracens are top having played eight games in uh but level on points with Gloucester Hartbury um just ahead on points difference uh Quinn's third having won four of their seven uh Chiefs fourth having won three drawn two lost two same as Loughborough Lightning yeah um and then trailfinders just below them on 20 points and then kind of the bringing up the ring yeah sale and Bristol on one win each tigers at the bottom having won none of their games so um the the league is very much split in looks it looks like it's Marys and Gloucester's to to duke it out to the end of the season.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:42

Yeah it definitely feels like there's there's two standouts then there's four kind of fighting for that mid-table battle and then three really playing up the rear at the moment we'll see how the rest of the season goes but thank you again Rory for bringing us up to speed with the PWR we do love a bit of PWR at Rux balls over balls. Before we bring the podcast to a close we won't be talking about uh round eight of the Prem next week because as we mentioned we're doing a 2025 special instead but what we are going to do is we're gonna quickly run through some predictions about how we think round eight will go quickfire predictions Rory Sail Sharks versus Harlequins Boxing Day at the Corpack prediction Sale will win this one by 15 points.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:29

Very good I agree Saturday three o'clock Bristol Bears at Ashton Gate up against the Newcastle Red Bulls yeah sad to say this one's this one's gonna be another shellacking I'm afraid um Bristol will win this one by 25 points.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

Yeah I was thinking 30 25 so yep sorry Red Bulls it's not your year but we'll we've still got high hopes for you next year uh next game 305 act what we should call Queens home because it's the only thing giving Gloucester fans hope. Gloucester up against Against Saracens.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:01

Um I'd love to be optimistic for this one, but I'm afraid to say I think Saris are gonna um spoil any festive cheer that's left in uh in Gloucester. Uh I would expect Saracens to win this one by ten to fifteen. Yeah, I yeah, it's uh the way things are at the moment, I think you're quite right.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:19

Uh the 530 kickoff at the wreck, Bath versus Northampton Saints. What a humdinger.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:27

Yeah, real humdinger. Um well being as being as it's at the wreck, I'm gonna have to tip Bath to win this one. Um Saints have got more than a punch's charge, but I'm gonna I'm gonna say Bath will win this one by between five and ten.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:42

I'd love to disagree with you, Rory. Uh, but I think so. Northampton don't have a good record at the wreck. Uh not many teams do. Uh, but I've got many distinct memories of us being really lackluster and really not turning up there, and I it's it's hard to think we're gonna be any different. I know we've got a dip we've got a really good team at the moment, we're in good form, so it could happen, but I think the the chances it it's more likely gonna be a Bath win, but I don't think there'll be many points in it, and I think it will be a close game, and I think Bath will make it an arm wrestle so Northampton can't use the firepower out wide, so it may not be as entertaining as you may think, but I still think it'll be a great game. It could be weather-dependent, that one, and weather will play a huge part. Um, so eyes peeled on the forecasts, and then rounding off the round Sunday at Sandy Park, extra Chiefs against Leicester Tigers, two of the informed teams in the league, both off yeah, off the backs of three wins.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:37

Uh I'm well, I mean, at this point I have to um upset and uh please two sets of fans who've um mostly disagreed with me throughout the course of this podcast. Um on the strength purely of home advantage alone, I'm going with Chiefs to win this one. Um I think this could go either way, there's no guarantee, but on the basis it's at Sandy Park, I'm just gonna give them the edge on this one. But it's a it's this is a tight affair. Five points in it, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:08

It is. Uh, I'm gonna please or displease both sides. I'm gonna I'm gonna predict a draw. A draw. I'm gonna pick a draw.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:15

Well, listeners, we're uh rounding off uh this uh podcast with a cop-out.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

Yeah, we're rounding off staying firmly on the fence. Uh any final thoughts, Rory, as we go into Christmas and we go into the new year.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:30

Um dear Santa, please, please, please, can you bring for me a good Gloucester performance this weekend?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:38

And with that, that brings an end to this episode of Rux Malls Over Balls. We wish you a very Merry Christmas from the podcast. Have a lovely time. We'll see you next week for our 2025 special. But please, please do come back and listen to us because we very much enjoy having you listen. Ta ra!

SPEAKER_02 1:22:56

Ta