Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls
Welcome to Rucks Mauls & Oval Balls, the ultimate podcast for all things English rugby! Hosted by two former university teammates who shared the pitch and forged a lasting bond, this show takes you behind the scenes of the rugby world, blending insightful analysis with a shared passion for the sport. Each episode dives deep into the game, with a special focus on statistics, player performance, team dynamics, and match breakdowns. Whether you're a die-hard fan or new to the game, Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls offers expert commentary, fun debates, and insider knowledge that you won’t find anywhere else. Tune in for the perfect mix of rugby banter, in-depth analysis, and a true love for the game!
Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls
S2 Ep 25 - Forza Italia & Up The Scotland... Less Said About England The Better
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A weekend of rugby made one truth impossible to ignore: courage and clarity beat caution every time. We open with Ireland steadying their identity against a ferocious Welsh defence, where McCloskey’s carrying and Gibson-Park’s tempo rekindled the familiar squeeze-and-strike rhythm. Wales brought heart and heft, racking up outrageous tackle numbers and unveiling a front row with bite. Rhys Carre’s gallop into open field wasn’t just a viral clip; it was a sign that Steve Tandy’s reshaped selection is starting to breathe fire again.
Then we head to Murrayfield for a masterclass in the dark arts that decide big matches. Scotland didn’t just outscore France; they starved them. Relentless ruck work denied quick ball, Ben White ran the tempo Scotland needed, and Finn Russell turned pressure into points with controlled brilliance. Out wide, Kyle Steyn and Darcy Graham finished with venom, but the platform came from a pack that cleared with purpose and carried with deception. France looked rattled, not reduced; when the source dries up, even the best half backs struggle to paint.
The story that shook the table arrived in Rome. Italy’s win over England was no smash-and-grab; it was the product of depth, belief, and detail. Menoncello’s class, a back line that doesn’t flinch without Capuozzo, and a bench that sustains the standard pushed them over the line. England’s plan told a different tale: early kicks as a default, narrow shapes, and visible fear to play when patterns broke. We dig into the coaching questions, the skills gap at phase play, and the selection puzzle of stacking fetchers without a true heavy carrier. Discipline sealed the fate; you can’t tempt momentum and expect mercy.
We close with a clear-eyed team of the week, then set the stage for Super Saturday with grounded predictions. Want straight talk about breakdowns, bench impact, and how to fix England’s attack without throwing out the playbook? You’ll find it here. If our take made you think, hit follow, share it with a rugby friend, and drop us your boldest Super Saturday call—who finishes on top, and why?
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Opening, Stakes, And Plan For The Show
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Rux, Mools, and Mobile Bulls. We're back. That's right. It's your fans favourite rugby podcast brought to you by your fans favourite rugby podcast hosts. It's me, Dave, joined as ever by a very poorly but an incredibly devout and loyal co-host in Rory. Rory, say hello to the listener.
SPEAKER_00Hello, hello David, hello listener. Yes, I'm uh I'm a bit under the weather this evening. Um I'm also fighting several technical issues as well as my physical issues. So apologies in advance if this is not our stellar episode, but we are gonna soldier on because I'm a brave boy.
SPEAKER_01He's a brave old boy, and we we will soldier on. And you know, we'd like to think the listener knows what our standards are. So, you know, if it falls short of those standards, they'll be fine with it because it's not gonna be that below what our normal standards are anyway, Rory, really, is it? Um, absolutely. Well, ignoring the obvious about your poor health, uh, how are you otherwise? Did you have a nice weekend, you know, despite the obvious?
SPEAKER_00Uh no game for the Lions this weekend. Uh an agonizing loss for the uh for the first team, um 25-22 away at Sudbury. So that's disappointing. That's put us uh right in a relegation battle this season.
SPEAKER_01Oh no.
SPEAKER_00Um and uh on top of that, you know, results didn't exactly uh go our way in the Six Nations. So um, you know, I would say I'm a little downbeat about rugby this week, David.
SPEAKER_01Oh dear. Well, hopefully not so downbeat that you're going to struggle to talk about rugby for an hour because um that's what we had to do. I'm sure you won't. So this week we are gonna go straight into bread and butter, talk about the uh the three Six Nations games that took place this weekend, uh round four. Um we considered doing some of the some bits around the Prem and some of the news things, but we're gonna wait till we've got more meat on the bones, so we can really do probably quite a lengthy, lengthy subject and conversation on that. Uh, but along with Six Nations going on, there's just not enough time in the podcast world to do it all. So we're gonna save that one for another day. Uh, but we're just gonna go straight in and hopefully give Rory a nice early night's sleep. Uh and we'll go straight in. First
Ireland vs Wales: Defence And Depth
SPEAKER_01game up of the weekend, the Friday night kickoff Rory, uh, Ireland up against Wales. Yeah. What did you make of that game?
SPEAKER_00I've of course I thoroughly enjoyed this game. Uh I thought it was incredibly competitive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, that there there have been signs in the last couple of weeks that Wales are improving pretty rapidly under Steve Tandy. Um, you know, some of the deficiencies around just top-end physicality are still there. Yeah. There's only so much you can do without significant change of playing personnel. But in terms of their commitment to the cause, uh the way they're going through phases, the angles they're creating, the space they're creating, I think they've come on absolute leaps and bounds since where they were in the first round of this tournament. Um, and if if we're honest, I think we're unlucky not to come away with a at least a point out of this game.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but that being said, in the end, uh classed overall by an island side that well, it's shut us up for stars.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I think that's safe to say. I think as a neutral, as neutral as you can be in the Six Nations watching this, I'd say the standard of attacking play from both sides was a little bit wanting, I'd say. You could argue that was as a result of two very determined defences, uh, but there was an awful lot of one-out runners and not a lot of creativity on display. But one thing you cannot take away from this game was the as you say, the commitment to the course, the defence, particularly by Wales, uh, you just look at the tackle numbers, and it's absolutely incredible. I think it was is Alex Mann, who had 32 tackles or something like that, which is you know heroic. Um and I I considering it something we have been critical of about Wales in the not too recent pass, about that commitment to the cause and about being able to emotionally prepare themselves for a game and physically stand toe-to-toe with their opponent, I think those question marks have been answered quite overwhelmingly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, look, I think when you when you compare this game to the the first round against England and you just compare the sheer ferocity of the of the collisions, the likes of Alex Mann have absolutely stepped up to the level. Um I think some good changes in personnel, um, particularly in the forwards, I think starting Rhys Carey, bringing back Thomas Francis, good changes. Um, I think going with a pretty big back row of Mann, Botham and Wainwright, um, you know, no disrespect for to McLeod, but ultimately I think physically not quite at the level for test much rugby, and then bringing in the likes of Joe Hawkins into the back line to offer some real bite and go forward is is absolutely transformative, and it just shows at its absolute core, rugby can be quite a simple, simple calculation of physics, and you know, Wales are now starting to rebalance the scales, um, which is a great sign for them. Um, and I think you know, Ireland maybe not lighting up the tournament with the most dazzling attacking play compared to say Scotland and France, but feel like they've come back to their effective, drilled, committed selves where they'll grind you down and then they'll find the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that that relentlessness that I think in week one, I think I said that it this it felt like they'd lost that that that relentless feeling, like it was a wave of green that you just couldn't stop. Certainly feels like that's certainly come back. And I think we've started to see the best of some players like Calen Doris, who I think's not been at his best. He he looks like a man on a mission. I also think for Ireland, a lot of their change of fortunes is the fact Stuart McCloskey, I think, has been probably their player of the tournament so far, in kind of giving them a real, real um ball carrying option in the midfield that he's he's an absolute presence, isn't he?
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, he is the size of any decent number eight out there, but with as we saw against England, proper bit of toe. Yeah, and he you know, like a lot of Irish backs at the top end, just picks intelligent lines, he picks soft shoulders and he gets go forward. And when you've got the likes of Gibson Park feeding off that, finding space when you get go forward in the back line is not difficult. And then on top of that, you know, they've still got the ability for the kind of interplay you often see from the likes of Doris, Tacburn, you know. I think Timoney looks like a player who's belongs at this level, yeah. You know, Vanderfleer on the bench, McCarthy on the bench. No, it's actually all of a sudden the question marks about Irish depth are gone. I think there's still some question marks there, but yeah, they've they've brought some players up to a level in this tournament that makes makes it feel like they're bridging that gap.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I still think there's big question marks around their depth because I think when Gibson Park's not on that pitch, Ireland look very different. We saw that at the start of this tournament. Um and obviously I think it's more or less confirmed that he's leaving the province uh at the end of this season. I think the likes of James Lowe, days and days are numbered, Van der Fleer's not getting any younger. Um so I I I still have those question marks around their depth, but I think you're quite right to point out the likes of Timoney, who's come in, looks like he's ready to play at this level. Alakun who's coming and it's just made you wonder why they've not been picking him sooner.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, one against Ingos the one in this game that really just showcased the sheer physicality of him. I thought, you know, a player of that ability, speed, skills, and size at the back, it's a rare thing.
SPEAKER_01Well, and then you say that, and then they've got Jacob Stockdale who's coming back into form, who's also a very large, fast who I feel like I haven't seen play for seven years. Yeah, I I think he's just been in the doldrums for three years, just really struggling for form, and then he's just been given the chance again, and he's he's taken it. Like he got that first try, which I think was made like I think that was the side of McCloskey's game that is often underrated. I think it was a really nice little offload that he did. Uh he's got a very good set of hands on it. Yeah, so a bit of an all-round player. So yeah, Ireland, as critical as we were at the start of the tournament, I think they're really starting to um show us up as well. I I think one thing one thing this tournament's done for us, Rory, it showed how wrong we can be.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, God, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't listen to us. We've been we've been we've been wrong in nearly every turn. Um, and I think you know, you have to really tip your hat to Andy Farrell because after obviously the France game, but even the Italy game, if we're being honest, direction of travel was not positive for this Irish side. Um, the the ability to to change the kind of emotional temperament of the team for the I for the England game, you know, you can make the argument an Irish team up for an England game isn't all isn't shouldn't be the toughest job in coaching, but the change week to week was massive, and then maintaining that level with a fallow week in between. It's a real masterclass in coaching from Val.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I think so. And I think I think the way Wales came out in this game that had huge potential for it to for it to be a real banana skin for them. Because I think Wales, yeah, Wales had got that fallow week right, obviously, because they were definitely up for this game. Um they they brought plenty of questions that that Ireland were able to answer, and I think Ireland at the start of the tournament may not have been able to do so. So obviously there's definitely been improvement, and I think um something that we may wish to address in the final fix for this game, but it seems like most nations have definitely been on the up this tournament. Umcluding both Ireland and Wales, but uh maybe maybe not all nations have had that same fortune. Um I'm sure we'll have some thoughts on that. Yeah, I I think it would also it would not be right if we didn't give a brief mention to Wales's new. I'm surprised this isn't the whole podcast. Yeah, Wales's new winger, uh Rhys Corey, yeah, uh who was able to I know we were just singing the praises of uh I think it was Balakun who was struggling to keep up with him. Uh but it was just what a moment. What a moment.
SPEAKER_00I have watched every edit of this on Instagram, and do you know what I love? I mean, there's so much to love. A wild prop in you know, in in free open pastures, what's not to love to start with, the toe he showed to to run it in from that far out, but the sheer joy on his face when he realizes he's gonna make it. If you watch it, as soon as you can see the moment of realisation, yeah, and the size of the grin on the man is just heartworking. You know, it's it's the things fat men dream of, David. It's the things fat man dream of.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't come enough in the in the life of the fat man on a rugby pitch. Uh a chance to do a 30-meter run-in where you've actually you've
Wales’ Prop Try And Selection Shift
SPEAKER_01actually gassed a load of backs. Um it's just it's what it's what dreams are made of. Like that that's the front cover of his autobiography sorted.
SPEAKER_00That's his every after dinner speech you'll ever do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, his LinkedIn profile picture covered for every after dinner speech. He won't need to pay for a bill again anytime he goes out for a a meal in Cardiff, I imagine. Um, and he's got he's got that for life, and you know, as a as a fellow prop, I just I'm I mean I'm I'm envious. I'm envious of the amount of kudos that man has now. Just a pound of a pantheon of legends.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but you know, he's he's undroppable. That sits up there with uh do you remember Gethin Jenkins one against? I think it was Namibia in maybe the 2011 World Cup, yeah, something like that. Yeah, and he ran one in from 35, 40 metres out. But to do it against you know a tier one nation, I mean it's no main fate, you know, it's it's a genuine great bit of skill, huge acceleration, and you know, yeah, that smile on his face.
SPEAKER_01It was everything, it was absolutely everything.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, heartwarming.
SPEAKER_01And like and you put that into perspective, all of a sudden, Wales, they've got Reese Carey, who, let's face it, has had a bit of trouble with international selection in the past. Like he was uh wasn't called up to the World Cup squad because of his uh conditioning or commitment or something was being called up by the coaches at the time. But they've also got Nikki Smith like to cover for them. And you know all of a sudden Wales, at least in the propping department, not looking too bad.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, I would say, you know, they they're struggling in the lock position to fill someone fill it with someone as sort of talismanic as Alan Wynne Jones. Fair enough, yeah. You would. Yeah, but they haven't got they haven't got a massive lock at the moment. I you know, I would say a real bruiser. So they could do one of those. I mean, Jake Ball probably would have fitted in about bar injury, but in the back row, you've got a nugget you sit, you've got a rangey seven, you've got an eight that carries all day, you've got a Jack Morgan to come back. Jack Morgan to come back, you've got a world class nine, you've got a ten with real potential, you've got a tall, strong, pretty skillful centre partnership. You know, Joe Hawkins has filled in at 10 for Scarless this season. Now, obviously, their season's been a bit up and down, but the fact that he can shows a skill set. You know, I think they've got genuine options on the wing, and you know, in Reese Samut, you've got someone with genuine stylists who can do something a bit different. You know, if you harness it all, there's a there's a there's a team in there, yeah. And and it looks like Steve Tanley's starting to get the kind of the ingredients right on it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it definitely feels like yeah, they've had the ingredients for the recipe for a while, but the recipe's not been quite right. Maybe he's made a tweak to that recipe, and you know, I I will extend this metaphor. Maybe he's gonna start getting a bit of a rise out of that cake. And you know.
SPEAKER_00I was imagining a stew, but I don't mind a cake. Obviously, I don't mind a cake. Come on now, of course I don't mind a cake. Yeah, it's got a lovely rise on it.
SPEAKER_01Uh so yeah, let's see. Let's see how Wales keep going, Ireland keep going. Obviously, they're both nations on the up. Um, but uh ultimately I took I came away from this game thinking Wales looked mighty impressive. Uh I also came away feeling very relieved that England played them in week one.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, yeah, that's that is absolutely true. That is absolutely something I came away from this weekend thinking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you know, if you told me three or four weeks ago, I'd be relieved we'd got got through the Wales game unscathed.
SPEAKER_01You know, I wouldn't have believed you, but no, but it's uh it turns out three, four weeks in rugby is a long old time. It's a hell of a long time. Hell of a long time. Hell of a long time. Hell of a long time. Um, but you know, ultimately, Ireland come away with a bonus point and leave themselves in the position where they could still win the tournament. Um, all to play for and a lot to go. And Wales, you know, they may not end up with a wooden spoon, who knows? Uh there's another there's another team vying for that uh that medal uh this year, it seems. Uh, but I think both both nations can come away from that game, heads held high. Uh certainly the Welsh defence something to behold. The tackle
Scotland vs France: Breakdown Clinic
SPEAKER_01numbers across the board. There's like five players with over 20 tackles, maybe more. Uh it's just ridiculous numbers. And yeah, all credit to him and credit to Ireland for just making a well-deserved win win. Like, it's can't really be critical. Very conscious. I'm not going to be critical of any other nation uh this week because we are not in a position to be so critical of others. Uh, we'll save that. We are not, we'll keep our powder dry for the next half an hour. Uh moving on though, Rory, because I think this next game there might be a few other bits to talk around because this is quite an interesting old game. First game on the Saturday. To say the least. To say the least, yeah. First game on the Saturday, Scotland up against France. Um a 90-point thriller, should we say?
SPEAKER_00Well, let's let's be frank with it about it. The score line flatters France.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. If this game ended at 60 minutes, um That's a pretty fair reflection of how this game goes. Yeah. Um if anything, I think Scotland were just feeling a bit kind and wanted to give France a couple of Instagram moments.
SPEAKER_00Um, I think I think Scotland will come away a bit disappointed they let France get a bonus point. Yeah, given the way they defended for the first 60, 65 minutes or so. Um but let's not concentrate on the negatives.
SPEAKER_01No. The performance here. Did you see it coming?
SPEAKER_00I did not see it coming at all. No, I didn't see it coming. I thought I thought France were gonna I thought France would rock up. I thought their pack would strangle Scotland ball, and DuPont and Jalibert would shred their back line, putting the beat bee, batter sogby, deporteire, mofana through you know, holes you could park a bus in. But the this is another one where it's just proof that you you absolutely cannot substitute physical commitment in Tess Metro B. There is absolutely no substitute for it. And you know, again, it's a theme that we might have to touch on a bit later on. But the at its absolute most basic, putting your body on the line and throwing yourself into tackles and committing to everything you do physically in a game, if you're doing that more than the team opposite you, it doesn't it often doesn't matter how talented they are because physical commitment will win the day, and I mean the level of commitment from Scotland in this one was you know off the charts, off the charts. I thought, you know, and players that in this golden age have at times probably flattered to deceive a little, but you know, big names when they're good, but not necessarily always performed in on the biggest stage that isn't England, if we're being honest. I thought Pierre Schumann was Titanic, just carried and carried and carried into every concept, didn't matter who's getting double teamed or whatever it was, he just kept on going. George Turner, I thought, just controlled things at the set piece and at the mall. Obviously, got himself a good um uh a good opportunity to score in all training, didn't quite get it down. I don't think I think Schoonman actually might have nicked it off him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, Faguson, Matt Faguson, Rory Jared, Jack Dempsey as a back row, just superb with the ball. I mean, Matt Faguson is a player with all of the physical attributes, all of the talent, who has probably, if you've been hypercritical, not hit the heights consistently that he should have. I thought at this weekend he showed exactly what his scene is and then he can be at. Yeah. Um, and then in the back line, I mean, Ben White, sniping, pacey, great, great skills, Finn Russell just being Finn Russell. You know, Hugh Piloto is proving once again what a great centre partnership they are at their absolute best. I mean, to a Piloto in particular, just the physicality of him is just madness. Yeah. And then Carl Stane and Darcy Graham on the wings look like fucking Jason Robinson and Shane Williams. They just tore them to shreds, didn't they?
SPEAKER_01Just tore them to shreds.
SPEAKER_00Tore them to absolute shreds. I mean, made B Ray and Atasogby, two of the best wingers on the planet in recent times, made them look ordinary at points in their defence. Um, Carl Stane in particular. I mean, I really hope his injury's not too serious, but I mean that his line off the back of the mall, uh off the back of the line out for his second, I think it was. Yeah. Um, where he cuts through off, I think it's George Turner's offload, which is a ri it's a really nice little way too. That's not an easy skill. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not an easy skill to make that decision because he's got players running at different angles, you know, obviously deliberately to create this confusion, but to lift that ball perfectly so he doesn't break stride. If he breaks stride, DePont probably gets him, but he doesn't, and he just rounds DuPont into the corner. Great finish. And he was he was I could see all day. Darcy Graham, another one, you know, just low centre of gravity, acceleration, commitment to the cause. I just I loved it. I I you know I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I have loved Scotland performances my whole life, and sometimes because they're not very good, and sometimes because they're very good against England.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00There are certain times you watch and you know you can't help but fall in love with the perceived underdog. How we thought it would be an underdog after that performance. Putting 50 points on France is out of this world, out of this world.
SPEAKER_01As England fans, do we take something from that that we we held them to fewer points than France did? Um, no, is that scru straws, grasping straws, maybe?
SPEAKER_00I th I think you're you're your your reach might extend your grasp there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, maybe, maybe. Uh on Scotland, all I say is just when you watching them in this game, I just thought the work that they put in, the work rate they put in for at the breakdown, and like each and every breakdown, both sides of the ball, that is the recipe to for their recent success because they secure the ball and quick ball for Ben White so efficiently, and they made life for DuPont and Jalibert so difficult by just making France ball as slow as possible. It was a clinic on breakdown work, I think, from Scotland, because it was a real feast for the eyes for. Those who really enjoy uh a good old ruck. And I I think that for me is what really set them out this week and really probably shook France and just made them fall completely off their game. I I think in the first 40 minutes, like DuPont and Jalibear, I I I barely they didn't get up to much. Um DuPont threw that lovely forward pass in his own dead ball. Yeah, well, it's a fantastic forward pass.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I mean, but you you you don't see players of that quality rattled. No, I've never seen them rattle really to that extent, and he was rattled, you know, yeah he was all over the place, you know. Jadabert, you know, as he gets a gets a yellow card until the last 15 minutes, nothing falls his way, you know, a couple of chipped balls that you know the right way, then he uh he maybe you know is a bit more effective, but it doesn't, you know. He's he he was pretty anonymous for a lot of this game. Um you know I'm I would struggle to think of a French player that played up to their potential, maybe Jagoux.
SPEAKER_01Maybe that was the only name that really came to mind for me. Uh mainly because of his uh his commitment to being in that final place for that one of that one of their wonder tries, then Scotland decided to give him a little bit of a little bit of a moment in the in the spotlight. Uh and I will say also uh thank you Scotland for giving France that moment of the spotlight because it just so happened that each of the try scorers were players in my fantasy team.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, I had uh similar, yeah, I had a similar uh rescue job from France on that one.
SPEAKER_01Which you know helped catapult me to the top of the Rux Balls and Oval Balls Fantasy League for League Six Nations, so I'm very grateful for that. But Rory, from your perspective, what what if you were a French fan uh and and we have been all tournament kind of uh fans from a distance of how France's been playing, does this raise question marks or challenges for them, or do they just write this one off as a one-off um blip?
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I mean I I would say at the moment you you write it off as a bad day at the office. Um they've got England in Paris this week. You know, we'll get onto predictions later, but no better opportunity to bounce back. I mean, Le Crunch, the new the new shirt, Stade de France under the lights. I suspect they will bounce back. Um but yeah, don't listen to me, I've been wrong most of the time. Um I I suspect they'll get one more week, but if they if they fail against England, then real questions will get asked. Um but I don't expect them to.
SPEAKER_01It felt like a week, maybe they rocked up a bit overconfident this week, but yeah, so and are are we dismissing the potential that Scotland may have shown the rest of the world France's weakness and their Achilles heel, which is stop them at kind of source and you stop them entirely, or is it literally just a one-off? Because in on other days, I've I've I'm pretty confident to say we've seen France handle that sort of pressure before. So maybe that does come down to my overconfidence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean the reality is I think I actually think the rest of the world kind of knew that. If you stop if you if you don't give France any quick ball, they're they're much easier to handle. Um, Scotland would just aim to execute on the day. I mean, you know, many many have tried, but only one has succeeded. You know, that's it's that kind of thing. Um, and actually at the breakdown, France have been pretty relentless, pretty beastly throughout this. It's actually kind of been the secret that their successes, how um how engaging they have been at the breakdown. You know, the likes of Olivon, Guillard, Jelaunge, Cross have just been blasting players out of there to get to get them quick balls. So um Scotland needs to be credited for succeeding in that. I'm not sure they found the secret formula, they just were able to do it all the day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, they executed it as as kind of near perfection. Um, and you know, it's nice to see Finn Russell, you know, putting in a performance, uh something we've been critical of in the past, not really showing up, but he certainly um showed that that touch of class. I think Ben White probably maybe one of the few times in his career he can say got the better of Dupont. Um certainly robbed his back pocket a little bit uh for his own moment in the sunshine. Uh
Scotland’s Backs Shine, France Rattled
SPEAKER_01yeah. Ultimately, it this is a story of just a monumental Scotland performance. Uh and I can only put my finger on it.
SPEAKER_00This is one that goes down in the lower for Scotland.
SPEAKER_01Is this the best this golden generation is going to achieve? Probably.
SPEAKER_00I don't they've got one more week to disprove that. Yeah. Uh going to Dublin where they've got an atrocious record.
SPEAKER_01They've got an atrocious record and an atrocious record against Ireland and a reliant on England to pull off a result in France.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you got you got a dream, you got a hope, but I think stranger things have happened, but I'm not certain. No, but you know, if if if they weren't ruined the Italy loss already, they really are now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, almost it does feel like in hindsight, this was their chance. Um considering this is the one title. Yeah, just that performance has France. Uh unreal. Uh Rory, I think we're we're we're pontificating now, and we are uh delaying the inevitable. We could we could we could sit and talk about this Scotland France game for a little while longer, but it it's really hard to be positive about other nations because we're all too aware of what the last game of this round is. And you know, England versus Italy, Italy versus England, out in Italy. Uh a game that England have never lost before.
SPEAKER_00A game that Italy Borthwick continues to accrue records as coach, doesn't he?
SPEAKER_01Borthwick is breaking new ground, and um Roy. Well, let's just get into it. England versus Italy on a scale of one to ten. How disappointed are you? Uh 12.
SPEAKER_00Um it's the thing is there's there's two sides to this, right? Because I can't help but be chuffed for Italy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, yeah, that's the thing. You know, I've been watching them basically since they joined this tournament, and to see where they are now compared to where they were five, ten, fifteen years ago, the work they've done to get to this level, you know, you hope that it they can kick on from here and and just keep developing and producing players, and you know, I know they've got a lot of good players coming through the system, so that the green shoots are are well and truly there, they properly blossomed. Um, and I thought I thought it wasn't a snatch and grab, they were absolutely good value for for this win. Um it almost feels cheap to bemoan it at all. To p single out anyone. Um, you know, Menoncello is the obvious one who's just continues to prove what a world-class operator he is. Purely world class operator. But yeah, I couldn't name anyone who doesn't deserve to be given their flowers for this performance.
SPEAKER_01Um very, very good performances. I think obviously they all turn up for that shirt, they are all committed to the cause, they all give it their all. They don't seem to be hindered by any tactical uh handcuffs, they don't seem to be playing without any fear. They are turning up week in, week out, and delivering. And it's I I think it it they they they come across to me like when when you see a club at in domestic competitions where you just sense there's a really good kind of vibe at the club. I get that from Italy as a nation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they look like mates, yeah. And they play for each other. I think they play for each other, and I think you saw that at the end in the in the kind of emotional outpouring at it, because it is it is a monkey off their back.
SPEAKER_01Um it feels like it's the final the final chip that they needed to get marked against to say, yeah, we're at the top table now in the Six Nations. All these top all these years where people are saying, Oh, we should be swapping Italy for Georgia, we should be swapping Italy Alpha Zone. That question then that that that question ain't coming back because no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00They they have absolutely answered those critics, and you know, I tentatively counted to count myself as amongst them. I never wanted them straight swapped, but I did believe in a route up and down from the Six Nations. I I'm still for a relegation then relegation promotions, a good idea, yeah. But let's but let's be honest, is at the moment doesn't look like it's been Italy competing in it. No, um I yeah, uh I I don't have enough vocabulary to describe what performance that was, but you know, I think when you look at the traditional kind of weak points in in Italian teams in the race of the past, because they've often had a few talented players, but you know, they've they've either lacked quality in the half backs or out and out gas or physicality in the back line, they just answer all those questions at the moment. I mean, there there isn't a weak point to that team, and the fact that they can have someone like Panny start and play so well and not miss Capuzzo, I mean anyone missed Capuotto, but they they genuinely looked fine. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think I think what we're seeing now in Italy is because of the the output of their development programs, they've now got depth, and when players come off the bench, so one of their weaknesses is was that you could you could Italy could stay with you for 60 minutes, but the second their bench was unloaded, you knew you would kind of accelerate away from them. That don't happen anymore because the bench is just as good as the starters.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, you know, Fusco, Marin and Allen in the back line all slip slotted in absolutely perfectly. Um, you know, they've got they haven't even just got six front rowers. They've you know, if you count the injuries they've got, they've probably got nine or ten. Um you know, they've got genuine locks, they've got options
Italy vs England: Italy’s Rise, England’s Drift
SPEAKER_00in the back row. And they're all good ages as well. All really good. Good ages. Yeah. So they they've they've been obviously a growing force in the last few years. You know, that winning card a few years ago, you know, you wanted to believe it was the start of something special, but you know, there's been false dawns in the past. Well, they absolutely took it and ran with it, and they're now they are fully at the top table as far as I'm concerned.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think the only uh the only nation they've never beaten now is New Zealand. Uh, and I can see this Italy team doing that if given the right opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Um I I you know I don't think they're a million miles off, you know, putting a result on New Zealand.
SPEAKER_01I think they're they're now they're now at the level where on their day they could pretty much beat almost anyone, I think. I think I think for me, looking at how they've been playing this tournament, I'd put them in the same camp as Argentina. Uh they're they're at a similar level, I'd say. Um I think that's that's a very fair comparison. Yeah, and I don't think and I don't mean that in any way to belittle Argentina over the last five years who've been monumental. It's just pointing out that these are both nations who have developed very, very quickly and very, very well and are now dining at the top table. Um should we talk about the England performance ruler?
SPEAKER_00I don't really want to, but I suppose so. Well, um there's very few positives to taking this, aren't there? I mean, next to none. Um the back line misfired. Um, they're gonna stick with them for this week, which I think probably is the right call. There's only so many changes you can keep making. Um, but the problem at the moment is they look so lost in phase play. We spoke a few weeks ago about one of the things I was really impressed with France at the time was their ability to generate quick ball around the breakdown, you know, without sort of cramping space, without having to resort to the kick immediately. You know, their forwards are just very good at creating a bit of quick ball that they can just then play off. England look terrified of anything that isn't on a plate, quick ball with everyone in the right place immediately. Yeah, they can't, they don't seem to be able to get out of their their own heads of if I'm not standing there, we can't play, we have to go to the air. Um, and it's not even that I'm I'm against kicking as a tactic, I'm fine with kicking as a tactic, but it's got to be an arrow in your quiver. It can't be your immediate default if things aren't in an absolute perfect situation because that's not how Tesrobby works. Yeah, um and they just feel like at the moment they're they look terrified to play.
SPEAKER_01Well, I can't I I I saw someone, I I read something somewhere about they look like a team of players who have a fear of failure riddled within them. And I and I and for me that that has to come from the the coaches and the camp. It's obviously being drilled into them that they need to do certain things in certain phases of the game and certain places, and if you're not doing that, it's gonna be held against you. So therefore that that fear to do something that if you're oh I'm not in the right place, we're not gonna do that, that's what it that is exactly what it looks like. It looks like a team of players who are afraid to play, and they just they're going to play in the system. Yeah, they don't want to get dropped, because if they do something that they're not supposed to, they'll get dropped, they'll lose their shirt, and then the next guy comes in, and then they have to if the next guy comes in and does a better job of playing the system, then they're gonna keep the shirt. And I think that's the problem. We're we're so it seems just hell bent on playing this system, which seems to be revolve around box kicking and kicking away possession in the first few phases of play almost every time, which to me, watch every other nation this round, none of them kick the ball away as early in the phases as we do. And I know there's a stat going around saying England actually don't kick the ball anywhere near as much as the other nations. Well, we probably haven't had as much possession as the other nations, and it's well-kicking's only good if you kick well. We're not kicking well, we're not chasing well, we're not reacting to any kick return. Like you say, like we've seen other nations, we've seen it before in the past, how the kicking game can work. I I'm not a big fan of it, just because I find it quite dull, the whole kicking game, and I just think it's a it almost makes there's there's such an element of luck to it now where there's it's not it's not really about skill, it's just about being able to get your hand up and being in the right position.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I'm fine with it, but not at the expense of playing when it's on, and not at the expense of trying any other tactic if it's not working. Um, at the moment, to me, they look like a team terrified of the Monday morning video session.
SPEAKER_01Um, they don't they don't want to be pinged out for not doing what they've been asked to do. That's what that's what it feels like. And it's what's the point of picking Tommy Freeman at 13 if you're not going to at least try and run through some phases and come up with some plays where you're gonna have him as a strike runner. Like if you're gonna pick him just to at 13, just so he's a little bit closer to the nine on box kicks, that's not how England should be playing.
SPEAKER_00But it's not like they weren't capable of doing that.
SPEAKER_01Oh, they're more than capable of doing it.
SPEAKER_00We've seen them do it. I just I don't know. I don't understand is why in this tournament they seem incapable of doing it. You know, we can be revisionist about you know every game they won last season, but you know, they beat Argentina three times, they beat France, they beat Scotland, they beat New Zealand, they beat Australia.
SPEAKER_01I don't I just think England on their tour to Argentina, that was some of the best rugby I'd watched England play in a long, long time. And that involved a well-executed kicking game. But I think the reason it worked so well is because that wasn't what it revolved around, it wasn't the only thing we did. But it just seems to be the only thing England are doing at the moment is in the first two phases, is you give the ball to a slowly ambling prop or lock, they lose a couple of meters and then we kick the ball away. Hope the winger um is able to. Well, that's that's that's the game plan.
SPEAKER_00I think that is the big problem. That is the big problem at the moment, is that there's no intent in the carries, and there's no deception, there's no tips, there's doesn't seem there's not a apart from apart from Benel, who is basically the only player in this squad I'm gonna give somewhat of a pass to for his efforts in this tournament, everyone else has has to be scrutinised for not applying what's like you know, relatively basic skill sets at the line. You know, you are a test match player, if you can't move the ball at the line as a forward pod, you're not good enough for test match rugby. You know, if as a back you can't perform a pullback to and take around, and you know, I don't like to do this to to Saki, who's one of my favourite players in England.
SPEAKER_01And I still think he's the future of an England centre.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I still think he's the option that you know you could just see they weren't clicking, yeah. But that's not a good excuse for being unable to perform that set of skill, and it's it's a really pervasive problem in English rugby that I noticed with the under-20s, particularly in the Ireland game with the under-20s.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this this tournament in particular.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I've seen it at prem level, and you're really seeing it with the with the senior men's at the moment, where if everything isn't choreographed and executed perfectly, players don't seem to have the skill sets to even improvise a slightly different pass when it needs to be. I mean, just so few players seem able to think on their feet in the game, and that is a culture and coaching thing top to bottom from each rugby, and you know, we we shouldn't get into dissecting the whole you know youth to youth to test journey of English rugby, but it's a problem we've seen for some years, if we're being honest.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, certainly in the backs, it it like even under 20s, like the backs have always felt quite regimented, and then like the the dominance from England age level has always been from the pack. Um yeah. Um I'm starting to have really big concerns about English rugby, which I know probably sounds very hypocritical because I've been one of the biggest um bastions of hope for English rugby, but I've been reflecting, and I think are we walking into a problem of our own making where like system-wise in English rugby, and I think the national team is kind of reflecting this a little bit. Props and hookers, we want them to be as mobile and ball playing as possible. Our locks, we want them to be hybrid sixes and back rowers, so we don't want them to be big and bulky, we want them to be athletic and lean, and our back rowers, we want them to be hybrid and able to operate in the centres. Um yet we're playing a style of rugby that relies on quite at least stable and dominant set piece. So are we creating a rod for our own back by creating generations of players who are in this mould that are going to come up against sides where they've not doing this and we're gonna get beaten up at the breakdown, which we've been at every single game in this tournament? We're not gonna be able to impose too much dominance at much of the set piece. I I'd say thank God we've got the likes of Ellis Genj around still, because I think that's what's helping us. We've got a few physical freaks that are able to do a bit of everything, but you know, there's every chance down the line that may not be the case. I'm just worried, are we creating a problem for ourselves by having this focus on these hybrid players? And when you look at the likes of Ireland, France, Scotland, they're not doing that. They are still churning out some big beastie players.
SPEAKER_00Are we gonna I would challenge that slightly? I think I think there are lots of players doing that in I mean, France in particular. If you look at Olivant, Guillard, Jagoux, these are all pretty hybrid players, you know.
SPEAKER_01Um they've even got a Miyafu to bring off the bench when that's not working.
SPEAKER_00Well, they this is I think this is this is where your argument I think really has has bite in that we only seem to be picking hybrid players, and we're not picking hyper-specialised single track players at all. So, and when you've lost, I mean, probably the only one we really had was Tom Willis. Probably our only hyper-specialised, he's an eight, he's only an eight, he can only be an eight, he's an eight. That was probably our only one last year, and obviously we've lost him. Um I mean, if you look across the French leagues, obviously you've got Jack Willis and Lewis Ludlam. That seems like a back row that we're dealing with the physicality problems we're having with the moment.
SPEAKER_01Well, um the other thing, like the RFU have made this point about how they've put all these things at Steve Borthwick's disposal, these contracts with the clubs, these new contracts, they're doing absolutely everything in their power to give Steve Borthwick or whoever English coach is or maybe in the future the recipe for success. And yet I still think in the back of my mind, if we could pick Ludlum, Jack Willis, and Tom Willis in the back row, that's probably a better way for giving us a bit more success, I reckon.
SPEAKER_00I think you're probably right. And the reality is I'm not convinced of Borthwick out yet.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00But what I will say to your point is it's all well and good giving him all the ingredients to the perfect recipe, but if the cook's no good, you're still not going to get much out of it. Ultimately, you can give Steve Borthwick all the tools, but there's got to be questions asked realistically. Is he is he moving in the right direction? And recency bias says no. Broader trend says maybe. The trend over the course of his whole tenure, it's a pretty mixed picture. And the stat that the stat that I saw today, and you I'm your your stat man, Dave, so you may well have seen it and and digested it yourself. Across this tournament, England have conceded the least entries into their 22 and gained the most, but they have the worst points average for entries into the red zone and the worst points on both sides of the ball, either conceding or scoring.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Now, what I would say to that stat, and this is and this is where your stats and my eye test are going to create two different pictures, really, because from a stat perspective, you could easily make the argument that tactically it's working, yeah, they're doing something absolutely right. Yeah, yeah. Something's going right because you're not conceding opportunities and you're making lots. You're not converting them and you're letting all those opportunities on the team get to score. But there is something going right there that you can work off. The eye test is telling me something completely different. And I think it's whether it's the quality of entries, maybe it's I mean, a lot seemed to come off. Can we win a pen at the scrum and kick it into the 20? I mean, thank God we've got a scrum.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00If we didn't have a scrum this tournament, we'd be buggered. Um, but the the lack of execution is I mean abysmal, really. I mean, there's no twos about it. It's it's appalling.
SPEAKER_01That's the big concern for me. Like, do we have to think is Lee
England’s Tactics, Skills Gap, And Selection
SPEAKER_01Blackett being given enough time on the training pitch to actually train? Well, this is the question for me.
SPEAKER_00This is the question for me. Is Lee Blackett being sidelined? Is he is he not getting his ideas across? Is it oh did we get Lee Blackett completely wrong? Well, where's the disconnect here? Because the the the chat about Lee Blackett was the quality of his ability to get the players emotionally right, but also to get a tune out of them in an attacking sentence, and something isn't working.
SPEAKER_01Well, for me, I think you just have to look at Bath this season. They, when they had Lee Blackett, looked dangerous ball in hand. The second Lee Blackett's gone off to England, they've looked a little bit like England. Uh, they've been very they've been probably a lot more effective than England have been, so it's not been too bad for them. But I I think that's the argument to say that Lee Blackett's definitely got the ideas and is a good enough coach because he's done it at the top level domestically, and we saw what he could do in Argentina. So is he not being given enough time on the training pitch because they're too busy practicing their kicking high balls and catching it, practicing I don't know what they're practicing, but are they spending too much time focusing on the stuff that is really not working and they're trying to get that right rather than actually well that's let's try something different and let's unleash Lee Blackett's little playbook that he's probably got hidden away somewhere.
SPEAKER_00It looks like sunk cost fallacy at this point, doesn't it? Yeah, it just looks like they're doubling down on a game plan they're determined can come good rather than stepping white in the wood for the trees and going, actually, we need to change tact a little bit here. Um I also think there are real questions personnel-wise in the forwards because we're not getting go forward, we're not getting impact.
SPEAKER_01I'm so frustrated they've not just rolled dice this week. I can't I know that you're not a fan of just rolling a dice and throwing baby out of the bathwater and all that sort of stuff, but I I think ultimately the back row, the balance isn't right. I know I know Ben Earl has been absolutely nothing but committed and nothing but impressive this tournament. But for me, I I think we need to start thinking about a Greg Fizzelau or even an Alfie Barbary. We need someone a bit different.
SPEAKER_00See, he's off to Sarah's. Um, that's always a good way to get yourself picked.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a good way.
SPEAKER_00Um look, I'd be happy to put Ben Earl at seven at the moment. I I think not bringing Cunningham South on to the last five minutes. I know there was the yellow cards, and that that's a whole other issue. The discipline issue is is mental. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Do we touch on that?
SPEAKER_00But we should touch on it. But it could just to stick with personnel for the for the moment, just to throw some names out at you that I you know, and I don't know that these are the right names, right? These are just names that came to my head. I was thinking, how does this together get go forward? You know, cunning himself's the obvious one. Tom Pearson, Ted Hill, Barbery, you know. I'm not saying, you know, it's how you're dropping underhill, how you're dropping pepper, how you're dropping curries, you know. I understand that there's these are players that have got a lot of um kulos in the bank, but this theory of having three fetches when we're not winning it, apart from a toje at the weekend, we've hardly won a turnover or get all season uh tournament. Yeah, exactly. They're not getting the go forward in the town. I know Pepper carried reasonably well in this one, but you know, by and large, it hasn't really worked this tournament. They're not getting they're not covering the ground the way that they should, given the theory, and you know, they're not slowing up a position ball, they're not it's not working. This idea of just having fetches, you know, it's it was a nice theory and it worked for a bit last season or last year, but this pack is crying out for some bite.
SPEAKER_01And I know it may not work, but they need to look at maybe someone like Miles Reed. If you want bite, if you want commitment, you want someone to put their body on the line, you can carry, and would be an absolute pest at the breakdown. That's what Miles Reed does week in, week out at Bath. Yeah. The players, all these ones, all these players that we are. It's just really what makes it us so critical is we watch them week in, week out and how good they are. Yeah. And and it's frustrating because we are huge kind of uh proponents, singers of praise about Prem Rugby. But we can't sit here and try and say Prem Rugby's the best league in the world when the best of the best in the England squad are putting on this display.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, it's it's a real question about whether Prem Rugby is providing the quality of competition at the moment. Um we should probably touch on the discipline issues. I mean, across the whole tournament's been abysmal.
SPEAKER_01It's been awful, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Toge on the back of what up to that point had been his best game by some distance in the tournament.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, despite shouting at Finn Smith like a naughty little schoolboy.
SPEAKER_00Well, I sympathise with him there. You know, I as look as a fellow captain, um, you know, when when you're getting challenged like that, it it is frustrating. You're like, no, we've I've gone with the decision, we're going with it. Just back the decision and let's let's play. Or you know, let's let's back the decision, let's just you know, do what we've what we've decided. I think a bit of naivety from Finn Smith.
SPEAKER_01Uh same approach Borthwick seems to have for the players as well. Nope, don't want to hear your ideas, do what I say.
SPEAKER_00Well, there's hearing ideas, and then after the decision's been made, question and in I understand, I understand how that happened. I'm not saying he should have um reacted that way, you know. That is a reaction of real frustration, I suspect, through multiple different things, but um I can understand why he lost his temper at that moment. Um, but that being said, you know, you can't play that card and then not let cool heads prevail later on and get yourself sent off through something daft and preventable. Sam Underhill, you know, Sam Underhill is one of the best, most physical tacklers I've ever seen in an England shirt. Because he doesn't do things like that, he doesn't go for the head, he's always low. He is like like he's lower than a snake's belly when he tackles. Yeah, and that's why he's so good. It's why he's so good. It's what is you know, his big super strength, and yeah, for him to do something like that at that time just undermined the whole trajectory of the game, and ultimately, you know, those those two cards were probably ultimately what cost cost England. Obviously, letting Italy start racking up points, get themselves back in within a score. Yeah, and then another bit of magic from Menancello finish it off.
SPEAKER_01At that point, it it it felt like it was well Oh, it felt like it was going that way. It was going that way, like momentum was just all with Italy, and it was just felt like it was a matter of when, not if. Uh, and that is what happened. Um I've seen a few things like calling out like the work rate of like Roebuck on the wing on the chase back and things like that. Again, not wanting to single out any players because I feel like the work rate again questionable across the team. Um yeah, I agree. It's I'm still harking back to it, just doesn't feel something's right in camp. This isn't the same England we were watching 12 months ago, six months ago. Um, I'd I I can't put my finger on it. It doesn't feel right. Is it rotten to the core? I hope not. I'd I worry that we're just going to keep sticking to this current plan that is in place and not think like because Bill Sweeney's come out and said like giving the back in to Borthwick and all that, like what's it going to take to change anything? Do we have to go to this nation's championship and get stuffed 60 l by South Africa and lose to Fiji? Uh like is that what it's going to take to impose any changes? Because at the moment we're just walking walking to more.
SPEAKER_00I think we're at the moment we look like we're sleepwalking into a fundamentally untractable problem. Um so I say hopefully they can turn it around this week, but I am not confident.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. It would be awfully typical of England to go out there and somehow sneak a win, which will basically paper over all the cracks. It probably won't be a beautiful performance, but I can like they'll probably go on paper and over cracks, so and it'll give Borthwick everything he needs to kind of say I'm your man till 2027 World Cup because I went and beat France in La Crunch in Paris. Um but I also know that is very, very unlikely to happen uh based on what we've seen so far. Um how much more do we uh dig into this England performance? Obviously, there was nine changes made in advance, yeah. And it's something that we'd asked Borthwick to do was to roll the dice and try something new. Did any of the changes work in your opinion? Finn Smith in for four, Saki in at twelve, Merley and Roebuck back on the wings, Freeman moved back into centre. Did any of that work?
SPEAKER_00Merley and Roebuck did okay at times. Um I thought Ben Spencer wasn't was pretty was alright at 10, at uh at nine, sorry, um by and large, without being spectacular and getting the team moving, but I thought, you know, I thought he was he was alright there. Um Pepper, Alex Cole was probably had one of the better performances on the game.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he quite he quietly had an okay game, didn't he? Like you know, relative to the assist is the is the big thing, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Ultimately, no, I don't think it massively worked, but I think they do rail their own plan by getting going with 13 men.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Uh and obviously we've seen the team out that's out for next week, where the only change is Chesham coming in at six, uh replacing Underhill, Pepper going to seven, Earl at eight. Doesn't inspire. Not inspire what changes would you have made? Obviously, within the bounds of the squad and kind of player.
SPEAKER_00Within the bands in the squad, I'd have brought Cunningham South in at six. Um I I would have been tempted. I mean, if Furbank was fit, I'd have been sorely tempted to bring Furbank in, but it looks like he's either unfit or unfancy at the moment. I'd have been tempted to put a Jomo at 13 and put Foeman on the wing probably for Roebuck. Uh and just have an extra pair of hands out there. But I mean at the moment it's it feels a bit rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic at the moment.
SPEAKER_01I think yes. That feels like a very apt and appropriate metaphor for the situation. Yeah. Does it feel like we're heading towards a some sort of giant iceberg of some sort that may be the spring box of the nations championship? Um is there any is there any value in debating what changes we would make outside the bounds of the squad? Um I think we should review it at the end of the tournament. Yeah, let's review let's review our options at the end of the tournament. Maybe we'll be a few surprises sprung. Um, but I I would, for one,
Discipline Meltdown And Coaching Questions
SPEAKER_01be totally up for a complete rejig and a refresh and a rethink uh of how that England squad is compiled and a bit more thought put to how we get the most out of each department in that team so that we are uh in a position where we can look for specialists and look for people to really impose themselves on games. Because at the moment it just feels like it's 15 people almost becoming anonymous every time they're on that pitch. Like there's there's no one standing out other than Ben Earl and kind of putting their head above the parapet. And I I want to I want to visit how that could be possible and get players to actually start doing that. Um yeah, we'll we'll reconvene next week and see how much more defeated we are, Rory. Uh whether we've got any hair left. Uh and if it there is any hair left, how grey it may be. Uh so yeah. Should we do a team of the week? Have you got a team of the week ready to go, Rory? Uh yeah, I think I've got one uh got one to mind. Okay. We'll do a team of the week and then we'll do some predictions for next week. Um yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, for me, Lou said it's Reese Carrow. It's gotta be. I mean, to prefer Alice Genge dominated Scrum time, but no, it's Reese Carrow, and I won't have any arguments.
SPEAKER_01None, no arguments at all from me. Who's your tight head?
SPEAKER_00Um I think I'm gonna give it to Feigasen.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So I I I've had a similar I've had a similar thought in my mind, and I've been I'm an inner of it, Faguson, or is Darcy Ray not getting enough credit for laying the foundations for that Scottish Scrum and kind of getting um getting the thought into the referee's head that that Scottish pack was in a good place in the scrum. Like I've seen I've seen a lot of other kind of websites and stuff like Faguson's their player of the week, and Fagsen had a very good game. But I I almost want to pick Darcy Ray just to kind of point out that he also did a really good job. Um considering he was he was an out there pick. Like no no one no one was was selecting Darcy Ray. Uh and nor did the French front row. So that that was my pick. Uh your hooker.
SPEAKER_00I think I'm gonna go George Turner. Yeah, so I just felt just an all-round solid, solid performance of him. I mean, I would attempt to buy Nicotera, but to get the yellow, maybe that just edges George Turner for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I was between George Turner for just was an overall good solid game, and Dowie Lake for what was a very combative uh talismanic leadership sort of performance. But I I'm I'm happy to go George Turner. Uh I think he probably had the best game I've seen in a Scotland shirt for some time. Your locks, Rory.
SPEAKER_00Uh I'm gonna go with Canone. Yep and I think Byr.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I've gone Cannone and Tag Burn as well. Um I nearly put Daf Jenkins in again for similar reasons for Dowie Lakes. Yeah. Um but I think I think I think Cannone and Byrne were the standouts for me this week. Um various reasons, but mainly because just for both being absolutely colossal uh for their teams in defence and carrying the ball just really effectively. Something that you know be nice if an England player did now and then. Uh your six, Rory.
SPEAKER_00I think I'm gonna go Alex Mann.
SPEAKER_01I've gone Alex Mann. I nearly went Jack Conan, who I think is is basically level with man, but I think the 32 tackles, uh unreal defensive performance, he was absolutely everywhere for Wales. He embodied what that performance was about. So I I went Alex Mann. I thought he was just tremendous. Uh you're seven.
SPEAKER_00Um it's a strange well, I think it's Rory Darge. I've also gone Rory Darge. Yeah, I think it's just Rory Darge, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, as as I as I said in the game, like when we'll talk about the game, uh the Scotland's work at the breakdown in both sides of the ball. I think he embodied that and just put his body on the line defensively. Uh again, one of those really quite understated, like he wasn't the headline player for Scotland really coming out of that game. But I think when you when you watch it back, like he's he's one. If you watch the tape back, that's some performance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just everywhere, everywhere.
SPEAKER_01Everywhere. And you're number eight, Rory.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna go for the other cannone.
SPEAKER_01Lorenzo Canone. That's the one. Yeah, I've gone canone as well. I nearly went Jack Dempsey for similar reasons to Dark.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I did think Jack Dempsey, but I just thought the Italy pack was just monstrous.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, and his carrying was a big part of why they were able to skip front football and kind of put England on the back for quite frequently, even though that turns out quite an easy thing to do. Your scrum half, Rory. Ben White. Ben White, easy decision. Scrum half of the week. Um, Gibson Park again, very solid performance from Gibson Park. Um, but uh Ben White for me, stand out. Uh, you don't score 50 points against France with a scrum half and not get a nod like that. Uh and for similar reasons, 10. I've gone Finn Russell. I'm assuming you've done the same.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I did. Um I was tempted by Garbisi, who I thought was really good for Italy, and obviously kicked them, kicked them into the game in some respects, but I can't ignore that Russell performance. You can't, you can't.
SPEAKER_01Uh let's go to your centres.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna cheat if that's okay. I'm going to Pilotto and Menancello.
SPEAKER_01So I nearly cheated, but I I so I went Menancello and Brex just because I wanted there to be one week where we got what I think is the best centre partnership in World Rugby. I wanted that to be the TV. So straight up Brex and Cello. Yeah, I I was gonna go to a Pilot 2 with Menancello, but I just thought I'm just not gonna cheat this week. Uh button. Yeah, fair enough. Except it came off at 50, though. True. Fine, we'll cheat. Menancello and Turpilotto. Because I did have Turpilotto written down and I scribbled it out and put Brex.
SPEAKER_00And I do think Menancello finished outside centre. I think Marin went to inside centre.
SPEAKER_01So Tu Pilotu at 12, Menancello at 13. Your wingers. Calstain dust ground. Yeah, very Scottish, Scottish feel to my my wingers, too. Uh yeah, I I can't really dispute that. I don't think anyone else in the wing department stood out as much as those two.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01Uh and your 15? Let me guess. Italiano?
SPEAKER_00I think it has to be Panny. I do think it has to be Panny in the end. Just dealing with that England kick in the way he did. Um, I mean, Becking On, I thought had a good game for Scotland, but maybe actually wasn't the standout in that back line. Um, James Osborne, another really solid game for Ireland, but obviously I think Panny was just one of the big differences for Italy on the day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I cannot agree more. And you know, not a single English player and not a single French player.
SPEAKER_00You wouldn't have said that at the start of the tournament, would you?
SPEAKER_01You would not have said that at the start of the tournament. Well, no, you wouldn't. Um so yeah, there's something for you. Uh but let's run into our predictions for next week, Rory. Uh, because it's the final round of the Six Nations. Uh it was a week that we were so excited for. Do you remember those days we were saying, oh, this feels like it's going to be the decider for the Grand Slam? Do you remember? Do you remember those days? Yeah. Um, good days. Yeah, heighty, lofty, happy times. But hey, you know, we can still be a little bit excited of what's coming our way. Uh and let's just so I've got let me just get the right fixtures up so I'm talking the right order. Where are they? Okay. All three games on the Saturday, Super Saturday Rory. We love a super Saturday in rugby. Kicking off 10 past two, Ireland at the Aviva up against Scotland, two teams in the ascendancy.
SPEAKER_00Where I really want to back Scotland to win this. I really want
Team Of The Week Selections
SPEAKER_00to back Scotland to win this, but the record in Dublin, uh, the response from Ireland since week one, I just don't think I can. I think I'm gonna have to back Ireland to win this one. Tight, I'm thinking something like 25-22. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm backing the trend, Rory. Remember the trend. Remember just last weekend, Italy had never won against England. Then what happens? Scotland. Well, they'd want to get well I'm I'm backing Scotland to break this duck, this this problem they've got with playing against Ireland, and I'm gonna back Scotland to come home with this one, and I'm gonna predict a 32-29 final score.
SPEAKER_00Oh, sounds a thriller to me.
SPEAKER_01Absolute thriller, absolute thriller. Next game, I'm actually more excited by this game than I would have been when you asked me to predict this at the start of the tournament. But Wales versus Italy at the Principality has become quite interesting.
SPEAKER_00It has, it really has. Um look, Wales look right to pinch a victory at some point soon. I'm not sure. I I don't know. Something's nagging at me saying Wales might win this, but I think I'm gonna have to back it later to get have their best ever six nations. I think at this point, at this point, I think if they if they're gonna beat us, at least have your best six nation there, right?
SPEAKER_01So that's that so I've got a similar nagging feeling in the back of my mind. Like, is this going to be the point of Wales ascendance that we've seen this tournament where it they get a fight, they finally get that win that they've just that's eluded them, but they are playing Italy, who I would arguably say have been consistently the best performing team, kind of can performing at the level we're expecting or above through the entirety of the tournament compared to all the other nations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they haven't fluctuated, they're just continually showing up good performances.
SPEAKER_01They have been eight out of ten every year.
SPEAKER_00I think Italy sneak this one, but I think it's tight. I think it's agonizing for the Welsh of the Fright. I think it's gonna be something like 18 14.
SPEAKER_01I I think it could be heartbreak for Wales. I I think you're right. It will be close. I think Italy do do it, but I think it's gonna be one hell of a game, and I think I think this could be the game of the the round, if I'm honest. Yeah. Um then what I'm expecting to not be quite so competitive, yes, the final game. France versus England at the start of the Ferrand. Just how bad do you think it'll be?
SPEAKER_00That low. Five tries.
SPEAKER_01And we'll get one.
SPEAKER_00We'll get one and we'll get an early penalty. And we'll go, well, maybe. And then BLBRA will skin everyone and we'll go, oh no. Everyone sit down.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I feel you might be right. Yes, I'm not disagreeing with there. I think France's comfortable with there. And that ultimately will mean France take home the crown once more. Um, but hey, you know. There's always next year. So, Rory, do you want to talk any more rugby nonsense while you know not feeling very well? Or are you wanting to go straight to Big Raw's final thoughts?
SPEAKER_00Forza Italia, Alez Bleu, and Oop the Scotland.
SPEAKER_01And there we have it, folks. There's Rory's final thoughts. We be Rux Bulls and Oberbulls, and we'll be back again next week with some more rugby nonsense. If you've enjoyed listening, make sure to like, subscribe, follow, and send those carrier pigeons because we enjoy receiving those. And we'll see you again next week. Tomorrow.
