Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls
Welcome to Rucks Mauls & Oval Balls, the ultimate podcast for all things English rugby! Hosted by two former university teammates who shared the pitch and forged a lasting bond, this show takes you behind the scenes of the rugby world, blending insightful analysis with a shared passion for the sport. Each episode dives deep into the game, with a special focus on statistics, player performance, team dynamics, and match breakdowns. Whether you're a die-hard fan or new to the game, Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls offers expert commentary, fun debates, and insider knowledge that you won’t find anywhere else. Tune in for the perfect mix of rugby banter, in-depth analysis, and a true love for the game!
Rucks, Mauls & Oval Balls
S2 Ep 27 - The Pragmatic Prem: A New Prem Rugby Era?
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No relegation, franchise-style planning, and a Premiership Rugby “reset” that could change English rugby for the next decade. We get straight into what the new structure really signals: less pretending, more long-term certainty, and a clearer pitch to investors who want to know what they’re buying into. We talk expansion timelines, why 2030 matters, and how a smart map (not just a bigger league) could unlock sleeping fan bases across the South East, Yorkshire, the Midlands and beyond.
From there we dig into the money moves that make this feel real, not theoretical. James Dyson buying into Bath Rugby is the headline, but the bigger question is what happens when deep pockets meet a league where crowds and viewing figures are rising. Can the “modestly run but well coached” clubs keep pace, or does the Premiership drift into a spending league? We also like the push for stronger alignment with the women’s game through direct links to PWR teams, because a future-proofed sport has to be joined up.
Then it’s full match review mode. Bath put 62 on Saracens with a masterclass in ruthless efficiency, while Gloucester nick one at a strangely flat Stoop. Saints survive a bruising scrap with Newcastle, Exeter expose Sale’s lack of subtlety without George Ford, and Leicester v Bristol delivers the best watch of the round, capped by late drama that flips the table conversation. We finish with Round 12 predictions, fantasy tips, and a brand-new “20 under 20” watchlist to track the next wave of academy talent.
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Welcome And Prem Rugby Returns
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Red Bull. That's right. It's the fans favourite rugby podcast back once again with the fans' favourite rugby podcast host. That's right, it's me, Dave, joined as ever by LaRory, live from France. Rory, say bonjour to the listener. Bonjour, bonjour David, bonjour le listener. Savant. Savant, very good, Rory.
SPEAKER_01Trayborn.
SPEAKER_02Trabon indeed. Yes. So little m Rory may sound a bit different this week, and that's because he's coming to us across the channel, and obviously that has some sort of interference with audio files and things like that. Being corrupted by these pesky continentals. I know. It's I'm sure you're kind of coming out in rashes and all sorts being over there.
SPEAKER_01But other than that, Rory, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. Yes, a couple of long days in a conference, one more to go. Um, but other than that, all well. I've had the Sal that is catching up on prem games in my spare time. Making sure I'm fully prepared for this week's podcast. But uh so pleased to have a bit of Prem Rugby back after those dreadful internationals, after that, just only brilliantly exciting Six Nations. Just good to see a bit of proper club rugby back in action.
SPEAKER_02Oh, there's there's something pure, there's something amazing about the domestic English rugby league. It is it's the best league in the world.
SPEAKER_01Uh sure is.
Franchise Plan And No Relegation
SPEAKER_02Uh well, Fab, well, let's get straight into it, Rory, because we've been talking Six Nations for the last five, six, seven weeks, and I just want to talk Prem again. And we we made the conscious decision a couple of weeks ago to not dig into the big news that came in around Prem Rugby, which was the announcement around the restructuring of the structure of the league, getting rid of promotion relegation, something we've spoken about several times, and kind of opening the door massively for the cis expansion model. And there's a few other little nuances to that announcement that I thought really interesting. Everyone seems really quite positive about it. Are we, the positive pod, on board with this being a big positive thing? And what do we think that means for the immediate and let's say short to medium-term future for our league?
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm actually positive about this one. I think um it's been it's it's better to have a literal franchise model than this kind of de facto model we've had for some years where no team could realistically get promoted. It's better to have a proper model that um you can plan in advance, you actually have the the literal structure there so that investment comes in and it knows what's it's investing into with the long-term or medium to long-term goals around expansion, which you know, I think we've spoken a little bit about this in the past. I I'm I want to look at this as the start, not the future. And and what I mean by that is, you know, you're we're starting with a 10-team franchise prem, okay? We all look across the pond, you know, across the channel with envy at what the French league system looks like with three professional leagues and uh and um opportunities for more. Um we're not there, and we we we weren't getting there with the kind of organic trajectory that um Prem Rugby have been on. Where I see this going and and from the noises that have that are coming out from um you know, admittedly the peak around this announcement, they kind of echo the things that we've talked about, what we want to see. You know, we do want to see an expanded Prem, be that 12, 14, 16 teams, whatever that looks like, two conferences, but also they're talking about the potential for a two-tier franchise system, so Prem Champ. Who's to say if with a fair wind behind you, all things going in the right direction, popularity in rugby exploding in the future? Why does that not become a three-tier franchise system? Why not? You know, what's what's to stop um this structure actually establishing a fully professional uh ecosystem of rugby that goes through several leagues because you know we weren't getting there the way we were going. I I actually see this as rugby taking a grown-up sensible decision to accord with the past and put something in place that's if not future-proofed, it's future aligned to actually and I I realise I'm talking like I've been in a conference with lots of business people, so you have to forgive me unless I'm in that mode at the moment. But you know, there's a there's a potential to move this structure in a direction that actually builds something more akin to what the the French leagues have at the moment. So I'm I'm aware for it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's great, it's really great to see this cohesion, this uh really dynamic um cooperation energy.
SPEAKER_01You know, the they just they got around the table, they thrashed it out, chucked some ideas up the old flagpole, which way the wind was blowing, and you know, just forged a path ahead.
Expansion Targets And Regional Gaps
SPEAKER_02Absolutely absolutely. Um no, but in in reality, but I I think that some of the other aspects of this I think really go hand in hand with this around around the future-proofing, about the requirement for any team to be at prem level to have a link or a direct link to a PWR team. I think that's a very smart move. The fact that champ rugby and champ clubs are part of this, are on board with this, is a big tick of the box because for years uh they they were definitely a bit of a well the forgotten part of the yeah, they were the afterthought, and the fact they're part of it is I I think that shows that there's been some common sense found, which is really good. And I I yeah, I'm also quite optimistic. Yes, we're not going to have these relegation battles and things like that, but we haven't had those for five, six years, and arguably the Prem has become a better product over those last five-six years. So why do we assume that relegation all of a sudden make it better than it already is? Uh, and I think the prospect, I think Simon Massie Taylor was talking about it before uh the Bath game this weekend. They're really looking at how they do the expansions and how they select those sides in a way that sets those teams up for success, and they're geographically done in a very smart way, and it's being done in a way where it's serving fan bases so we're not over-populating certain areas and forgetting others. So I I think there's lots of good sound, good noise, and things that addressing problems of the past, maybe, which is where we fall into that future proofing, and I think it also leans into this competition starting to look awfully investable, Rory. Awfully investable.
SPEAKER_01You know, crowds are up, viewing figures are up, the product is, as you say, as good as it's ever been in terms of what's actually happening on the pitch. Um I I I just see this as a genuine opportunity for English rugby to accelerate and to you know, the the opportunity to see some big names come back into the league. Obviously, London Irish are already making a lot of noise on social media. You know, you can tell they've got a plan. Obviously, Worcester are back in the champ. Wasps have a plan to build a ground in Seven Oaks, I think it is, or near Seven Oaks, um, which is obviously a massive opportunity in in a big rugby area.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh I found it interesting that Simon Massey Taylor directly pointed out there's a huge number of rugby fans in the south east, and there's not a rugby club within a 90-minute drive. Yeah. Uh kind of says we want wasps to be a thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's it's lots of different things. You know, there's a huge uh if you're not from the area, you wouldn't know you wouldn't necessarily have noticed this, that there's a massive infrastructure project going at the moment to create a tunnel between uh Essex and Kent, slightly more um towards the coast than the uh the QE2 bridge, which is you know that's currently would be a massive problem for Essex rugby fans to go and watch a team in Kent. This infrastructure gets finished, say more or less around the same time, potentially as a stadium gets built, and then a team gets established there. You've then got the opportunity to get fans from South and South East London, East London, Essex, Kent, maybe a bit further beyond, and actually build a club with a massive fan base. You know, that is a huge development. I mean, there's a lot of rugby in that area, there's a huge amount of rugby in that area. And you know, the fact that you have to go to Twickenham to see Quinn's or to Yarsender North London to see Saracen's, a club that's barely got transport links, you know, it it's a big miss. So actually having someone there's huge, but then you know, more widely, obviously, we've talked a lot about having a club in Yorkshire, having clubs in the likes of Coventry, maybe Birmingham, um, you know, maybe more in the in the northwest around uh Liverpool, that kind of area. Yeah, the opportunities are massive there.
Dyson Invests And Money Shifts Power
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think there's a huge gap in the market as well in the southwest, because there's not there's just not enough teams in the southwest, I think, at the moment. Um I agree, I agree, but you know, that's all to look forward to. But I think it's just 2030 is the purported first expansion for two teams. So that's enough time for a lot to happen. So I I don't think we're in a position to predict who those two teams will be in in any shape or form. Uh and I think there could be some real surprises. And I think the interesting thing is we're starting to see things like Ferva down the league as well. So I think I I saw today that Chinner, I think is where Nick Easter's coaching's and doing some really good stuff there. Like they've announced that they're going to be building a new 5,000 seat stadium. So maybe people clubs that are maybe a bit smaller, but maybe have like some wealthy fans or things like that, they're thinking, oh, maybe there's an opportunity here that we can start turning this rugby club into something for the future. So it'll be interesting to see how it, how if there is a ripple effect down to grassroots at all. Um obviously way too early to tell. Um, but I am in the positive camp, not just because this is a positive pod, but because I think it is generally the right move at the right time for the Prem. Uh, and to all those uh creators out there who are fans of the URC teams who seem to be knocking the Prem for getting rid of relegation stuff, just remember what league the teams you're supporting are in, because the URC last time I checked doesn't have promotion of relegation. Um so yeah, I think that's quite good. I think kind of tangentially to that, the news almost seems cons coincidentally or almost almost certainly linked that uh we have the fourth richest man in the UK now, and the owner of a rugby club or half half rugby club in uh in Dyson. And to put that into perspective, his wealth is two and a half Red Bulls. So he's a very wealthy man.
SPEAKER_01Um he certainly is. He's obviously from Bath. He's a lifelong fan. He's a lifelong fan, he's a bath he's a genuine bath sport, he does go a lot. Um but I think it's really indicative that Bruce Craig needed someone else to come in and support that wage bill, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Well, exactly. Well, apparently he's he's just wiping the floor, clearing the debts. I'm guessing I wouldn't be surprised if the Bristol uh Bath County Council now has a fresh set of uh Dyson hand dryers in their offices. Uh I'm guessing there's going to be quite a hefty amount of Dyson um presence in the new stadium development, because I'm guessing he's realised there's a quite a lot of money to be made there in the commercial aspect of that. So may I it's not cynical, it's probably a very smart business move from him, but uh him buying 50% of that rugby club now buys him into that stadium project, which could turn into a very lucrative retail investment on his behalf as well. Uh, and obviously Bruce Craig, we've spoken about in the past that he was carrying the liability of all that debt for that club single-handedly and could have walked away. And at that time, we thought that was a thing to be worried about if you're a bar fan. Don't need to worry no more because it's pocket change to Dyson.
SPEAKER_01No, that is uh yeah, no, that I think that's a really, really fair point. You know, Bath rugby are now financially more secure than almost anyone in the league at this point.
SPEAKER_02They're almost more secure than most Premier League football clubs. Uh at this point. Yes. Um, so yeah, if you're a bar fan, pop those corks and drink that champagne because you're probably riding the top of that table for a few generations now until like bath fans weren't doing that anyway. Yeah, let's face it. That's that's just your standard Sunday lunch in Bath. That's just a that's a Tuesday. That's a Tuesday in Bath. No, but yeah, not jealous at all. Not jealous at all. Um but I also think it's interesting. I wonder whether we're gonna start seeing some power plays because Red Bull, obviously big, big, big owners. Uh sales, talk about uh their owners kind of coming into some lot of money, Bath now having a lot of money, uh Bristol, Bristol, like we've got the extra on the s are for sale at the moment. Yeah. Interesting to see what happens going forward, whether more investors do come in, uh and investors with deep pockets, what it means for some of the more smartly run clubs, modest clubs, let's say, like your Leicester's, your Northamptons, your Gloucesters.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. We uh I I don't like the um the chances for Gloucester to uh attract the world's most glamorous brands, if I'm honest, given our current sponsors are the likes of Big Doug, Compede, Speedy Skips. I don't I'm not sure if um Hey, Howdo or Howdens is a big it's a big corporation.
SPEAKER_02One second, Roy, my doorbell's just gone, as is customary.
SPEAKER_01Oh, so another fresh pasta delivery. It's ridiculous, honestly. A vat of caviar.
Bath Dismantle Saracens With Efficiency
SPEAKER_02It was a parcel that I received for a neighbour earlier today. Uh nothing fancy, unfortunately, this week. Um, but yeah, yeah, maybe Howden's will come in for Gloucester. Or, you know. Maybe. Maybe maybe, or you know, something really agricultural. I don't know. Clarkson's Club. I Bina are just down the road. There we go, there we go. Uh but yeah, I think so that's some of the big things that have been going on in the Prem whilst the Six Nations been going on. Obviously, there's been a few transfers and stuff. If you follow the channel, it's probably mostly up to date with what's been going on in that space. But I think for now, Rory, let's get into this weekend's action because we've been yearning for some Prem rugby. We've got some Prem rugby to talk about. And uh we've got some games to talk it through. So let's go straight in to the Friday night kickoff and uh Bath up against Saracens, which on paper, a very tasty matchup. Uh reigning champions against past former multiple champs. And you know, I thought it might have been quite a close game. What were your thoughts about this game, Rory, uh, upon watching it?
SPEAKER_01Uh honestly, didn't think Saracens were that bad. I genuinely thought they played pretty well for a lot of the game. Um, you know, manful uh at times. Uh the first half in particular, I would say, up until uh Arundel's interception just for half time. Pretty even, I thought. Uh I thought they they came out of the blocks where it's scored in the first minute to Bias Elliott. Uh almost almost the forgotten man of Saracens this year after his XP, you know, so good last year as the kind of breakthrough star in the back three, obviously with the likes of Noah Calorey and uh Bracken, Jack Bracken coming through. Father sort of um uh peripheral this year, but back back with a bank, actually played very very well throughout the whole game, I thought scores really well after I think Tom Willis keeps the ball alive in contact. Um McFarland, I think, charged Ben Spencer down. Willis gathers the ball keeps it alive, and they find um they find Elliott down wide after a really nice decoy line from Gonzalez and that we think that's game on, it's game on. Um they were then you know Saracens were just def uh D and up really really well. Ajomo was very prominent for Bath, but Saracen's really didn't look too stressed. Um they were kicking very well, Farrell and Daly, I thought kicked extremely well, found a lot of space. Um, and then Bath scored off first phase off of Scrum. Um DeLawrence barrels through some defense, wins, then first phase, and then I don't know, the game just sort of flipped really, really quickly. Um Finn Russell gets a 50-22, Barbary carries really strongly. Um Bayliss then slips two tackles and powers over. Really, really good football uh footwork from Bayliss, who had a super almost a perfect game, apart from one dreadful pass to Tom de Glanville to put him in the corner, he just throws it over his head into touch.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um it now makes sense why he's a back, not a back. Now it makes sense now why he's a forward, not a back, even though he's just quick enough to be a back. He's got the hands of a forward.
SPEAKER_01He's a real athlete, but that was dreadful skills. Um but the game just seemed to seem to have just really flipped Sarry's discipline really started letting them down. Um Barbary scores in 25 minutes after uh they give away a penalty, five-minute line out, peel off the mall, and Barbary just sort of powers over. Um rest a bit of momentum, Tobias Elliott again, about half an hour into the half-hour mark. Um Tom Willis puts Theodan in for a really nice break. Tompkins makes another bust, and then I mean Farrell with a really good over-the-top pass um to put Tobias Elliott in. And after half an hour, both teams had a hundred percent try scoring efficiency in the red zone. Yeah. You know, outrageous, really. After that point, you know, four tries off four entrances between the two of them. It was amazing. Um and then uh sorry, five tries, I should say, so off five entrances, and then it's it's still quite even for the rest of the half for the last sort of ten minutes or so. Saracen start attacking really well towards the end of half, and Arundel reads an Iron Fowl pass extremely well, and once he's gone, he's gone. Yeah, just no catchable. At that point, it's uh 31-15 at half time. Uh a late Russell penalty to extend the score line a little bit, and contest is done. Um, Saracens don't score another point for the rest of the game, and Boart score loads of points. Yeah. Um yeah, I mean it's yeah, Saracens just seem to fall apart. I mean, Ben Spencer scores off um it's a loose ball. There's a good kick kicking uh chase, clearing up the field. Ben there's a loose ball. I think Ivan Farrell I think spills it basically at the breakdown. Ben Spencer picks it up and runs into the corner. Um they send the bath bombs on, Tupelotto scores almost immediately after he's peeling off the mall after they win a scrum penalty, just absolutely demolishes Max Malins. Um, you know, and up to that point the Sarris Scrum had been the better of the two, but the bath bombs came on. Thomster Toy, obviously, prominent, kept to Vic for the three minutes he was on before um Ben Libana had to come back on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was a big three minutes though.
SPEAKER_01It was a big three minutes, he actually did very well in like three minutes, but he's off immediately. Um, but you know, the the game says you know, Max Malin's then knocked on a crossfield um over the try line, which he really should have gathered, someone with his skill set. Uh Theodan gets a yellow card for cynically killing the ball. Um, and then yeah, Arundel scores it's breathless play. I mean it's our breath is talking about it. It's uh it was so much ball in playtime. Um I I thought Max Joma and Oli Lawrence were really, really good. Um, but it was weird, you know, Saracen's actually had more phases in the in Barthes 22 than Barth had in theirs. Barth was just ruthlessly efficient, absolutely ruthlessly efficient. Um scored two tries in the last 10 minutes just to just to wind things up with uh guy Pepper and Van Delinder uh Tom Willis on one leg, gets skinned by Finn Russell, and uh Arendelle feeds it inside to Lawrence, who gives Pepper the tap in. Yeah, and then Vanderlinda knucks it nicks it off the back of a ruck um after Saracen's, I think Simpson makes the break, and then Saracen's defence by that point is just absolutely shagged, can't catch him, and he runs it in, and it's 62-15, and you go, How the hell did that happen? Yeah, six points on Saracen's.
SPEAKER_02It was not what I was expecting, and when I was looking at when I was looking at the stats, it isn't what the stats would suggest the score line would be. Saracen's had an awful lot of the ball, but it is just that ruthless efficiency of Bath and probably a little bit profligate from Saracen's. Probably very kind of.
SPEAKER_01I mean, if it in the end, I mean after the first half an hour, they've been brilliant, you know. But in the second half, yeah, they were really profligate. They I I mean, we actually probably should just give the props to Bath's defense, which was monstrous.
SPEAKER_02Well, they k they they kept Tom Willis, who is let's face it, Saracen's main man, pretty quiet most of the night. He obviously still had a few like barnstorming moments, but not to the same extent he normally does. Um I think it it made me think back to kind of some of the stuff I was saying at the start of the season that when you look at the Saracens lineup, sometimes, certainly in the back line, I not necessarily worry, but if when they're not on song, you can see why sometimes they struggle to create things. Because I think they they've got some real work horses in the likes of Farrell and Tompkins. I think Cynthia's a little bit not wasted at 13, but I always thought he was a better winger than a centre. Tobias Elliott had a great game, let's face it. Uh, I'm not gonna deny that. Shagun barely had the ball the entire game.
SPEAKER_01He barely had the ball. I mean, Shagan I think's been really good for this. He's at least been a real shining light for them, actually. Carries so well. I I I I take your point. I feel it's more style than um individuals. I mean, you can maybe make the case that they could do with a bit more stardust uh in the centres. Um but there's still a a pragmatism. To the way Saracens play, which when they were good a few years ago was undeniable. But they lack that little bit of something something on top that turns a pragmatic side into a really good side, which is basically what Bath have. I mean, by and large, Bath are very pragmatic.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. But then you still have if you look up pragmatic in the dictionary, it's a it's a Bath crest.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But then you still have Finn Russell who can just produce the sublime, you know, as and when they need it. Um, you know, and they've got other players as well, you know, not denying that the skills like Max Ojomo, Ronnie Lawrence, Santi Carreras, you know, there's great players across the background, uh, across the whole team for Bath, but their style is ruthlessly pragmatic, as they showed in this this game in particular, but where what they've really done is taken the kind of what Saracens were great at, but with that ability to turn on the Stardust when it needs to. And Saracens, I think, without the likes of an Alex Good, um, someone like that who can just pull something a little bit special out, um, you know, a Chris Ashton who can just create a finish out of nowhere. Um uh God, who was the winger they got from uh Dave Strettle? Dave Strettle, yeah. Dave Strettle, you know, those those kinds of players who have the ability to break a game up with their raw athletism or just a that just ability to to jink and go. Um feels like at the moment they're still I think they're in a a holding pattern until some of those players that I think they have in the youth system who could do that mature.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um and let's not forget, they got Thomas Williams next year as well.
SPEAKER_01Yes, delighted for them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he certainly adds a bit of stardust.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, good for them, great, brilliant. Um, but you know, I think you know, as the likes of a No Noah Coloris got the Bracken brothers, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's you know, uh what's it Ollie Hartley, the center? Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, those as those guys kind of mature into being pop-level players, I think they'll you'll see a bit more of the old style Saracens, but at the moment they're a bit Wortman-like. They're great players in the pack in particular, Gonzalez, McFarland, Willis, obviously, Benal, Maratoge when he's um when he's playing and on song, Theo Dan when he's when he's on it, Reese Carey. Yeah, um, but I I think they're lacking a bit of the unknown in the background at the moment, which which is I I feel that that's what's kind of separating them from the best teams.
Gloucester Edge Quins In Flat Game
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that that might be why they're now kind of a mid-table team rather than top of the table team. Yeah, uh, but I agree. I th I think they are in a holding pattern for this crop that's coming through, who I think is particularly exciting if you are a Saracens fan. Because I think they are going to be a good crop, and I think you've got another golden generation coming through like you did 15 years ago or so. So nothing not not a lot to be too concerned about if a Saracens fan, but I suppose a worry you may have is the fact that Bath were very good and they're not looking like they're going to be getting any worse anytime soon. And they they are capable of putting 62 points on most teams, it seems now, and um and that's when they're not even playing that good of a rugby. I'd I'd say that they were good. Don't get me wrong, like you're not gonna be. Fair play to them putting 62 points on the Saracen's side that um on on other days would have beaten other teams, uh I think. So yeah, omnus. And it makes you wonder what sort of uh work's been going on at Bath's lovely training ground uh during the Six Nations, because they maybe they've put a few things together, put to bed those a few shaker games they had before the Six Nations. Uh maybe maybe we're gonna see the best of them see the best of them in the second half of the season, which you know is fun for everyone. Uh but yeah, as we said, the game ended 62 15 to Bath. Um just a demolition. Five points in the bag, uh, and at that point put them top of the table. Now let's go to Saturday, Rory, and we'll start off with a game that I know you were present for, I believe. It certainly was. You were at the stoop to observe Harlequins versus Gloucester.
SPEAKER_03Uh, two of the most inconsistent teams this season, I think it's fair to say.
SPEAKER_01Let's call it what it is. The two most two of the most average teams this season, probably the two most average. Um, yeah. So, yes, I did go to this one. Um, strange atmosphere at the stoop, not a sellout, which is very unusual for the soup. I mean, not even really close to a sellout. Um, a really muted atmosphere. Um interesting. You know, it yeah, it was it was a bit strange. Um, I have to say. Um, you know, I'm not a bar uh not a Quins fan by any stretch of the imagination. Um but you know, I I will give them their I will give them their dues that actually they do put on a decent show at the stoop generally. Um but it it wasn't um it wasn't on form this this week. I think very emblematic of the two teams that were there for nice and probably a fairly abject feel amongst the Quinn's fan base. I mean did it feel like a game where there was nothing to play for? It felt like a game that Quins expected to lose. Um and uh Gloss came in confident, you know, really you know, um partly because we had some players back from from injury, like Sav Joseph, Max Llewellyn, um Ben Redshaw was playing. Um I think you know, um obviously going out eventually to Bath in actually what was quite a good game. Um so I I would say I I went there with a reasonable level of confidence. I predicted us to win this, um, and and we did, and we started really well. Jack Clement um Barron and over after five minutes or so. Um honestly, but the game really didn't get going. I mean, it actually it didn't really ever get going, if if we're being completely frank. Um stayed second gear throughout, really. I felt it yeah, it did, it did. Um Quinn's really profligate with the ball, gave up a lot of opportunities in Gloss' half, either throwing bad line outs or giving away turnovers. Um Ben Waghorn scored quite a good try, but if we're honest, crap defense and gloss on the goal line. Uh Marcus Smith scored a very Marcus Smith style try, just getting finding the finding the gap on the shoulder. Yeah. Um Ben Redshaw scores a try from some really average handling from Quizens and casual play, uh, pouncing on a loose ball that Iskro doesn't kill. Um, and darting in uh, I think it was um Keenan Engerfield picks it up and puts Ben Redshaw in the corner. Charlie Atkinson scores a really good one after uh Matez Alamano break. Uh Jack Kenningham powers away again, quite weak defence from Gloss, and then Arthur Clark powers over for the winner, about eight minutes from time um for pick and go, and no right really to finish it. If if I'm being honest, he shouldn't have been allowed to place that ball. Um Quinn's just not with it, really.
SPEAKER_02Um there's a story of just some pretty abject defence and some not overly scintillating attacking stuff. It was just two teams that devoid of confidence going up against each other. I think just the side that came out on top just had a little bit more than the other, I think it's fair to say.
SPEAKER_01I think that's pretty much it. I mean, you know, it's it's not one that I would recommend going and watching back. I've done it, it's not worth it, really. Uh it's not great. Um, you know, uh I'll take a win at the stoop anyway, I can get it. Um we've got a bad record against Quins, we've got a bad record at the stoop. Yeah. Um and you know, we've got a bad record this season in general. Uh so this is only our second win, they're both against Quinn's. Um, but I'm sure some of your friends are delighted with that. Yeah, absolutely are. You know, wouldn't be like me to rub it in. No. Um and you know, I I saw some some encouraging signs from across. You know, don't get me wrong, I think I think there's some encouraging signs. Um, there's lots of good noises coming across. They've obviously got um Chris Boyd back in for the first time, sorry, back in the Prem as technical director, puts Skibs back on the training paddock. Um I've got uh Rob Burgess has come in as basically a general manager to take the kind of admin. Um, if we're being honest, this game just came down to the fact that Quinn's were a bit more crap than we were. Um, and that was kind of the difference between the two teams.
SPEAKER_02That's you know, I can't say fairer than that. In a nutshell, yeah. So maybe less than maybe not one to go running out to re-watch, and we'll just take it from us, ended in 1926 to Gloucester. Uh Gloucester, I'm assuming, happy with that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, look, I mean, not happy to see Tom Os go off injured so early or at all, really.
SPEAKER_02I mean story of the season for Gloucester.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, basically. Um, at least Keelan Engerfield's like back now. Um, but um all in all, yeah, happy. Happy to happy to get the win. You know, we've got Villa Park, which I'll be at on Saturday against Leicester, and something going along to that one. So you know, a bit more foreboding, I think, as a fixture, you know, but looking forward to seeing how that goes. And in general, this season you take a win however you get them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. And from a Harligan's perspective, um uh not sure where the season goes. Obviously, you've got Robbie Deans has been announced today coming in. Yeah, they've been making a few coaching announcements.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, they they're trying to write the ship, but this season I think is now a write-off. I mean, I can't see them get much further in Europe and um ultimately their challenge is to not get caught by the Red Bulls, I think.
SPEAKER_02I think it's a it's a very real Red Bulls in a minute. If I if I was Quinn's, I would not be overly confident about my game against them in a in a and that it feels like a good segue to move into our next game, which was Northampton Saints up against the Red Bulls.
Newcastle Rattle Saints In Ugly Win
SPEAKER_01And I'm just gonna say it from the start off for all the combination nearly yeah, you did. Um I didn't I did not call this. Um I did not see this coming. And I think there's uh some question marks about Saints. Obviously, a lot of I think will come down to election in this game, and you I think you've got that caveat that you can barely play. Yeah, but I would also say I thought the Red Bulls looked heaps better than they have done uh for large, particularly away from home.
SPEAKER_02I'd confidently say that Red Bulls were the better team on the day.
SPEAKER_01Um I mean by a stretch, really.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I thought Saints' defence was pretty woeful at times.
SPEAKER_01Uh I think they look really ropey with the ball in hand, I think really disjointed, really disconnected as a team, uh, which you do not associate with the Saints for some years.
SPEAKER_02On on the edges, I think the uh the obatoyimbos just tore us to shreds, especially Harrison Obatoyimbo.
SPEAKER_01Harrison Obatoyimbo, I've not seen him play for a long time.
SPEAKER_02Where have they kept in him in a way? Because he was devastating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Part of me thinks is that so Saints scored a try pretty early doors from Archie McParland, and it was so easy to score that try. It's almost like they just switched off. Uh, because we they even got to a point where we had Newcastle were down to 13. And we did still nil. Yeah, we didn't score a point up against 13 players. If anything, Newcastle protected the ball and looked better.
SPEAKER_01Newcastle looked more likely to score, and probably should have, because they kicked to the corner when they should have just kicked for the posts. Yeah, they should have won that 3-0. Um, and you know, yeah, uh Newcastle should be very disappointed not to have sprung a real surprise here, and probably unusually let down a little bit by the boot of Brett Conan. Um, yeah. I mean, some real standards, Leather Barrows is it, both Upper Timbo brothers. I thought um Benitez Cruz all day was phenomenal. Um Tom Christie as a link man and as a jackal threat, a proper old school seven. Yeah. Um I I I thought Newcastle were with really good value for the win, actually. Um I thought McGuigan had a really good game. Their set piece held up really well, uh, by and large. Um, nice little story for Nikki Little coming through from from Howick. The uh yeah, uh and uh you know looking good actually, you know, held up in the scrub, yeah. Yeah, really held up in the scrub uh against uh uh West, was it? Yes, yeah, it would have been West. Um yeah, I I think if Ripples can take that kind of intensity into their home games, they'll pick up more than more than one scalp towards the end of the season. Um, but Saints looked like a team that needed their internationals back, let's let's be frank. Um, really to avoid equality in this one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I I think so, and I think they were surprised by the intensity that Newcastle came and played with. I think that there was a lot of bruised and battered bodies, uh not George Furbank's face.
SPEAKER_01Um I'd be a hell of a shiner on him. I mean, but did you see Yarnold's teeth? Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um I'd I'd I'd rather have Furbanks cut than Arnold's teeth. Properly gruesome, yeah. Proper that's rugby, that's rugby. We uh good good spirits afterwards, and I'm sure Furbank is wishing for a game of rugby where he doesn't need paramedics to look after him at some point.
SPEAKER_01Fair play to Furbank, he's he's he's tough and he really puts it about, but he can't he he does off get a just cough an absolute fucking skinful every time he plays, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02Every time he plays, but you know, he puts his body on the line and like or more key one. And I do think it was probably Furbank Callum Chick. Um I think those two are probably solely the reason why Saints were able to scrape as well. Maybe a bit of Langdon as well. I thought he looked good coming off the bench.
SPEAKER_01I thought Langdon looked good when he came on, he looked like he had the bit between his teeth. Um but I mean look, there were no tries between the 22nd and the 54th minute in this game. You know, it's it's poor. Um you know, uh and Saints were really contriving not to score uh at times. Um Langdon then Giggs have got a really good you know a good lineup more and finishes it off well. Um but yeah, I mean this was this was not a great no it was a great game in terms of um the excitement of seeing Newcastle in it and and thinking they might get an outset, but objectively not a good game again.
SPEAKER_02You know, I think I don't think either of our teams are involved in uh but strangely both of our teams come away with wins, which you know you you've got to take uh and with Northampton interesting next week, Northampton going into the showdown game against Saracens, who historically have always bounced back from big defeats, but I also think Northampton will want a response to that performance as well. And with the internationals coming back, I think it's gonna be a tasty one. I'm gonna be there at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in hospitality. Yeah, I know. And I offered it to you. I think you roar it with the great and the good. I offered it to you, Rory, and you said no, I'm gonna go to the Ed Slater Cup. Uh so yeah, I'm looking forward to that because I think I think we'll we'll see what Saints are about next week where the internationals are back, and we'll be a better gauge of where they are. I think like I said last week, Northampton historically are always awful, first game back after an international window, and have always been a bit shook by Newcastle, both of which ring true after this game. And I'm and I and I said I'm just happy if we come away with five points, and somehow we've managed to scrape past with five points. And uh, if I was a Newcastle Ripple fan, I'd be a little bit miffed because there's probably a few refereeing decisions that could have gone like the James Ram Yellow arguably could have been a penalty try. Brett Collins.
SPEAKER_01I mean that was a poor decision. I think that should have been a penalty try.
Exeter Beat Sale As Ford Absence Bites
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just another example of some poor discipline from Northampton this season. I think we've had a pretty wretched discipline backward for this season. Um and I do think it was some definitely wasn't James Ram's best game. Uh I think Pater didn't have the best game on the wing. I don't think he's a winger. Um but we were. He's 10 or 15, I think, is he, the way that he's been talked about. But I think that shows where we were just kind of filling gaps with injuries and stuff, because obviously we didn't have the likes of Hendy, uh Freeman's being rested and all that sort of stuff. So we'll we'll we'll see, we'll see where we uh what sort of team we roll out next week. But like you say, yeah, let's not dwell on these two games because uh not a great deal of optimistic stuff to talk about. And sadly, on a similar note, and it's really odd because we were just saying in this first segment of the show what a good the product is. Uh the the next game, X to versus Sale, I think similar-ish trend, probably a slightly better game, but there's big patches of this game that were a bit uninspired.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, look, I think as a as a week as a whole, um, this was a weekend that suffered with I mean a mixed bag of selections, let's let's be frank. Um, but but X to start really well, score two tries in the first 10-12 minutes. Um big Paul Bram Bampo.
SPEAKER_02Paul Bram Bampo was huge.
SPEAKER_01Really good. Campbell Riddle as well, really good. Um, I mean, the the feet for his first try rano flatte um off uh Ross Vincent's second assist.
SPEAKER_02How does a six foot five guy move like that?
SPEAKER_01Uh as a six foot five guy, I couldn't tell you because if I tried, I'd rip an ACL in half. Um, yeah, I mean, but superb set of feet on it. He he's another one that's come out of nowhere a little bit and looks like a real prospero. I know he's got a bit of under 20s experience, but yeah, he's quite quietly one to watch.
SPEAKER_02He's only 21. Uh he's got the build for this modern day style of rugby, which is basically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he's that kind of robot, um robot kind of mold, I suppose.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, I mean, for the first 20 minutes, Sale couldn't put anything to go but two past the other. You know, the first bit of a reasonable attack was on 21-22 minutes. Van Rain finally scores. Chiefs giving up quite a few penalties in the in the build-up. Yeah. Um, and then uh Chiefs bounced back. Uh Woodburn scores after a uh a Harvey skinner break, ball breaks loose, somehow knock calls a knock on, not quite sure how. Fullburn vampire makes some ground and then uh gets out to to Woodburn to finish it off. Again, nice try, nice finish, but not loads to to talk about around it. I mean, sale really average again. I mean, for the Woodburn try, they give up about 60 60 plus meters just through their own errors, either penalties or bad kicks, or you know, it just their own worst enemy uh constantly. Um, yeah, I mean I liked the Dander Prier try, pushing Exeter off their own ball at the scrum.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was that was nice. That was a nice moment. That was a nice moment. Um, but I think that I think that shows that what sales problem is at the moment. Same with Van Rain, like their scores only come from like your brute force. Yeah, there's no subtlety to that team. No subtlety to that team at all. Particularly missing George Ford. Hugely missing. I thought having Rathy Quirkin maybe that it'd kind of take a little bit of the slack off.
SPEAKER_01Looked to get the tempo up where he could, couldn't really make much ground in attack. I think Chiefs marched him well with the ball in hand. But I thought actually he had one of his better games as a nuts and bolts nine than he's had for a long time. Yeah, yeah. Um, but you know, Rob Deprees really good player, but he's not a world-class ten in the same way that someone like George Ford is. He's a very, very good center, yeah. Um, but you just don't get quite the same fluency with having him at 10 rather than George Ford. Um, and they didn't exactly, apart from that particular scrum, I wouldn't say they dominated Chiefs up front. It was fairly even, I would say, in terms of the power game. I think that's why it was so surprising. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, you take you take the Ford power away from Sale, and they're another team similar to Sale, uh similar to Saracen, sorry, who just don't have enough stardust, particularly missing someone like George Ford to pull something out of the bag. Um you know, I other than that, I mean it's not low to say about this game. I mean, both teams left a lot of points out there. You know, the Paul Brown Bampo gets a really bad crossfield over team, which he doesn't he doesn't field well. He should have made more effort to get to the ball, but it's not a great kick from Harvey Skinner that bounces basically bounces over his head. Um but both teams have kind of leave left the points out there. You know, he PvV gets his gets a try off a really nice um shadow line from uh Stephen Viney makes the break of Harvey Skinner, I think. Yeah. It's a nice little Harvey Skinner kind of shimmy. So again, it's a first phase play though. First phase play. They get they make the break and poor and map goes through. Just an average game, actually, really. Um Chiefs gotta come away with five points. I mean, you know, it keeps them up, they go really, really well.
SPEAKER_02Um so one thing that I did take from this game was I was trying to think, has there been a better pair of signings in the league than Zambanin and Hooper?
SPEAKER_01No, though those are the two I did want to talk about. I thought for someone who doesn't look like a monster uh in terms of as locks go, he's so effective with the ball, and he's got a really good skill set, so you never look feel like he's gonna kill momentum and attack. And then Hooper is just a dog, yeah, you know, just ruins mules, ruins rugs, big hits, carries hard, big bloke. Um, you know, I think that they'll obviously they're obviously missing um Lenny Catel, who's obviously not really good at I don't think he's likely to feature in the rest of the season. I think he's probably gonna go back to Australia before he's spit. Yeah. Um but it in those two they've they've just upped the general quality level of that pack so much. Um you know, I I think also helps that Daf Jenkins is back into some really good form. Yeah, yeah. Um Ross Vinson being back, I think, helps adds a bit more um uh a bit more zip to the pack. Yeah, and Fizzelao's played so well this season in general. But yeah, you're right, Hooper and Zambone. Are the two star men for them, I think, in that pack.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think so. I've been trying to scratch my head about who which which side has made the best signings based on performances this year, and I think Exeter definitely up there. Well you just have to look at the differential in results from last season to this. Yeah, it couldn't be more night and day, could it? But yeah, I completely agree. This game 26-14 ended in the end for Exeter, so got the bonus point win. Nothing for Salesharks. Um I think this probably puts the nail in the coffin for any hope of a Sales Sharks resurgence to the top four, but you never say never.
SPEAKER_01You never say never with so they always pick up at the end of the season. But as we sit here today, uh as a Gloster fan, I'm looking at them going, they're catchable. They're they're yeah, I don't know how many more wins they're going to get this season. You know, they don't look out of sight. I think you know, even Quinn's will be thinking if we can turn things around, we could potentially catch them there. So it's for someone like Alex Sanderson, um, it this will really stick in the crawl. But I I don't know how many more points say we're gonna get this season unless they really butt this trend quickly. Um and you know, I think the current um method of doubling down on plan A isn't working.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think you're right.
SPEAKER_02I I get perhaps they're just another side that's in a holding pattern waiting for next year.
SPEAKER_01Uh they've made some pretty good signings, but also not from from the from the chat they were having about their budget uh flexibility. I I don't know that they've necessarily made the most out of it.
Tigers Outlast Bears With Late Magic
SPEAKER_02I think there might be more coming unless they really were pulling our legs on this whole kind of world-class players coming in. But um, we'll see. We'll see. So, one more game to go through, Rory. The Sunday game, Leicester Tigers versus Bristol Bears. And I'm gonna happily say this was actually a good game of rugby.
SPEAKER_01This was really good to watch, actually. Um, helped by Leicester playing Leicester played in a very Leicester style for most of this game, probably right up until the final score.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, until the 79th minute, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but actually, I I don't mind that so much when it's juxtaposed with Bristol playing the way they play, because actually it's nice to see that real clash of styles. Bristol basically tried to play it from everywhere from minute one, um, and Tigers just played territory, territory, territory, but but also just absorbed in defence, initial physical defence, you know, didn't really give up. I mean, how how many line breaks did Bristol get in this game? It can't have been too many, realistically.
SPEAKER_02Their defense was so good.
SPEAKER_01It was solid, it was solid, solid, solid defence. Um, you know, scored two very less to like tries through Morro and Levenberg, just kind of um towering over. I mean, to be fair, the I mean the Morro try comes from Blumaier carrying off a tapped five-minute penalties. It was extremely less to Tigers. I'll give them their flowers on the Levenberg try, though, turning over uh uh well, Bristol turned over their own line, I think they overthrew it. And actually, Tigers did identify space, play to the wing, and swept up field, but the finish was very um Liebenberg coded. Um, and then but yeah, but lots of pretty stuff from Bristol, some pretty looking play, but nothing really effective in terms of um carrying on line breaks until that first Fitz Harding tried. That was that was the first time they actually looked genuinely dangerous in attack. Um Ibatoy and Revuvo particularly combining to make grout.
SPEAKER_02It made me for think of a saying I think you used in a previous episode where they're they're sometimes a little bit like uh all fart no poo.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they were they were quite all fart-no poo for the first half hour, but finally followed through, and um Hardin uh gosh, that's a horrible, horrible metaphor to start using. Um Hardy kind of picked some powers over to finish it off, but the attack leading up was it's really, really good. And then the momentum just seemed to really switch. Um Revuvo scored two minutes later. Um they counter rut, and it's really good set of hands. Uh it's Ogre, uh Bernard Jansen, Van Rensberg, and Bill Matter all kind of combined to put Revuvu in, who just you know just loves scoring at Saracen's just finishes so well, he's so good. Points machine on fantasy, yeah. Um but the the momentum just seemed to switch so quickly. Um you know, I think they Tigers sort of finished up with uh with some penalty points to kind of go clear at halftime, it's 17-12 at halftime, I think. Yeah, they kept Bristol at arm's length, didn't they? Yeah, but Bristol looked really, really dangerous, and actually, um you know it when uh Harding scores, I I I know um Tigers started with a penalty quite early on the second half, but I think it was yeah, 2012. But when Harding scored about 50 odd minutes in, you know, they it's it's a it's quite a um anti-Bristol try sort of a mall and then a pick and go. Yeah. But to you know, 20 points to 19 at that point, actually it really could have gone either way.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, the game was in the balance for because it was it was 2019 for a little while, wasn't it? And the game was a good one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean Morro spilt one over the line after some really good attack. Yeah, what could have been trying to season? Could have been trying. I mean, Holly Hashcolly and S and Cell looked phenomenal in that. Umro managed to to to spill it. Um but yeah, until Pre uh Parisi scores on 15 minutes to go, really could have gone either way. And actually, even then, you know, it wasn't um it wasn't all sewn up. You know, it was only a five-pointer. Morrow again, really prominent. He's he's really come out of nowhere, I think, from from uh the wider uh base. But he looks like another superb Argentinian back row, they just find him. Um yeah, you know, it it could have gone either way until um Bears give up the penalty two minutes to go, 28-19. So then the game's sewn up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're thinking, well, Tigers get four points, Bristol come away with nothing. That's a good day for Tigers. Yeah, and then in the most unless-like fashion, yeah.
SPEAKER_02They they they harness their bear-like stuff their bear-like skills.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. You know, 80 minutes in, Seobald Thomas gets a gets a turnover, and you think, great, game over, they're gonna kick it off straight away. No, Ollie Chesham makes a sort of a half break, carries through another monstrous game from Chesham, by the way. Um, Freddie Stewart with a lovely kick pass to Searle, who passes it inside to Hamer Webb with a lovely finish. It's a phenomenal try, 82 minutes into a game. You know, at that point, you know, Bears look sort of like they're out on their feet, just been huffing and puffing against this lesser defence. Um, but to pull out that bit of skill, Freddie Stewart to Billy Sell in particular at that time and execute it and finish and come away with five points and give up nothing to the team who was your closest kind of challenger for top four. Yeah. I mean fair play. We hate to we hate to praise Tigers. I mean, it's our least favourite thing to do. But you can't help it. Um can't help it. They would they were great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think of all the teams, of all the teams this this round, I think if I was if I had to pick the team that I didn't want to play next of out of any of them, I think Leicester Tigers are the team I would want to avoid more. So even even the Bath. Right. Thanks, mate. Oh, sorry, who have you got next? Yeah, it's it's it's Leicester for the Athletic Cup. Cheers. That wasn't deliberate, I promise. No, no, it wouldn't be. Wouldn't be from you, would it? No, I would never do such a thing. Um but I just yeah, I just I think I think with them, it is a very Leicester-like way they're playing, but there is a bit of and I think a lot of it coming from Billy Searle. I think the way he plays, it means that they're not quite as one out runner, very straightforward from a textbook style they were, say, last season.
SPEAKER_01They've got a sort of bit about them now, which I th I think this is a theme we're gonna keep returning to, you know. I I I think this theme that we talked about with Saracens and with Sale, I think it's sort of Tigers are kind of that mirror image to it, aren't they? You know, where they are, you know, they they are pragmatic. Tigers are pragmatic. You know, Tigers fans maybe they won't like hearing us say it, but let's let's be frank about this. You know, Tigers have and always do play a certain way, but you mix in the likes of Billy Sell played to the capacity's playing at the moment, Hassel Collins playing to the capacity player, you know, Radwan when he's fit being in there. It's that extra bit of stardust that just makes such a big difference. And you know, I I think teams are gonna have to come to terms with a pragmatic game plan, it is all well and good. You know, maybe this is something that that you know England themselves are kind of reckoning with at the moment. Pragmatic structured game plan is all well and good, but you need to have the ability to turn opportunities into gold, and tigers are doing that better than other teams that play in a in a similar style, maybe other than other than bath. Yeah, I I would I would hazard so much to say is you know, tigers are one of the teams that's obviously got obviously got one over a bar this year, and Saints are a very different style of team to these two, you know, they're much more not style of a substance, that that that would be unkind, but they're much more uh free-flowing than they are pragmatic, let's say much more attractive um to watch. Is that what we're saying? Yeah, you know, I mean not this weekend, but yeah. Um but actually maybe the Tigers' game plan is the one that can challenge Bath more closely when it comes to the to the really tense matches, you know. You know, we'll wait to find out.
Round Twelve Predictions And Fantasy Tips
SPEAKER_02But well, I I think when Northampton beat Bath themselves, that's probably the most pragmatic I'd seen Northampton play. Yeah. Uh so it says a lot, really, that maybe there is something in this pragmatism. Um, as as as long as it does come with something a bit more substance to it. Um, there is something in that, and maybe both maybe that's what both maybe Borthwick spent the last six nations just really honing in on the pragmatism before he starts getting to work on the substance. Um yeah, so this game ended 33-19 to Leicester Tigers. Uh giving them a bit of breathing room to as you say, top four competitors, Bristol, putting themselves in amongst the pigeons with kind of you know dancing around that those top two, three spaces. So, yeah, I think they're ones to watch um in the run-in for sure. Um and I think I'll be surprised if they're not in the top four when it comes to the end of the season, the way they're going. Uh it feels like they've got the wind in their sails, they got the Prem Rugby Cup under their belt with a very convinced win over Exeter. Uh, they're playing well, playing yeah, no one cares, but they're playing good rugby. A lot of their good players are in good form, just look at Chesham. Uh, and they've got some players that are emerging who are looking like the real deal as well. So, yeah, as much as it pains us to say it, things are looking good at the Welford Road. Um, so we'll do some quick predictions for round twelve, and then I'll introduce you, Rory, and the listener to a new thing I'm gonna do. But predictions-wise, Rory, let's start round twelve. It starts Friday night, Newcastle Red Bulls at home to Extra Chiefs. That's one hell of a journey for the Oasis.
SPEAKER_01It's a huge journey. Actually, this is a tough one to pick because you cast our better at home. It is I think by some distance geographically the biggest commute a team can make to another team. Um extra in good form, but Newcastle looked good on Saturday.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and Extra had the Sunday game. Oh no wait, no, they didn't. I take that back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, they didn't. Um do you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna I think Newcastle might pip them at this one. I can see I think Newcastle could sneak this one. I think it'll be a really tight tense one, but I'm gonna go Newcastle 19, extra 17.
SPEAKER_02I agree with you, Rory. I think Newcastle, I think we're gonna start seeing some results in the second half of the season. Yeah, and I think it's this sort of thing, Friday night Kingston Park. I think it'll be a buzzing atmosphere, and I think there'll be a lot of Newcastle fans there. There probably won't be that many extra fans there, and I'm not saying extra won't be up for this, but you're gonna feel that commute, you're gonna feel that in your legs, and uh the weather I don't think's turning around. I think the weather's taking a bit of a turn over here in this side in this country. Rory may not have picked up on that in France. Um that may favour the Newcastle. So yeah, I'm I'm predicting a slim victory for Newcastle Red Bulls as well. Uh next game up, the Slater Cup, Gloucester Villa Park against Leicester.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, uh I look, I'm gonna be there. Um I'm really I'm really excited to go there. I'm really excited to see a game at Villa Park. You know, I like that we've done this. You know, it is it's a bit outside our wheelhouse being a kind of we're very much a local team, we don't have a vast diaspora of fans around the country, so you know it's it doesn't necessarily play into our strengths to do something like this, it's much more coded to something that Leicester would um thrive with in terms of getting big crowds to but you know we're expecting more than 20,000 there, which is you know as the first big game we've ever produced. I'm I'm okay with. Yeah. Um we've got some players back, we looked a bit better against Quinn's, but I've got to be honest with this one. I can't see anything past the Leicester win. Uh and I hate to say it because I really want us to win this one, but I think this could be a not a route, but relatively comfortable from Leicester. I'm thinking something like 32-22.
SPEAKER_02I was thinking similar to ballpark. I I don't think Gloucester will let themselves down. I don't think they'll capitulate. I just think Leicester will have a bit too much for Gloucester on the day.
SPEAKER_01And ultimately, where I've got to I've got to find out. And I I hate to not predict a Gloucester win, but in an occasion such as this, but yeah, ultimately.
SPEAKER_02And it's it's a it's an occasion that both sides are able to emotionally get up for like the Ed Stator Cup. So I think they'll both cut, I think it'll be a great game. I think it'll be a really good game. Um, but I do see Leicester coming away with this one, unfortunately. And I don't I agree to that sort of sort score line as well. Uh and then another big game at the Principality, Bristol Bears putting them, I'm assuming putting on a Harlem Go project performance up against Harlequin. That's what I'm expecting anyway. Get Bristol Bears players. Get Bristol Bears players into your fantasy teams, people.
SPEAKER_01Shredder. Um, yeah, Bristol gonna shred him. Absolutely shred them. I'm thinking 43-15.
SPEAKER_02I I think Bristol break fifty. Um reckon? 50 pointer. And I reckon four tries between Revuover and Ibatoy.
SPEAKER_01There's your fantasy picks there.
SPEAKER_02There's your fantasy picks right there. Uh, and I think Quinn's so Quinn's may get four tries of their own. I I reckon it could be like fifty-28 or something like that.
SPEAKER_01Uh I'd keep Marcus Smith in your team if you've got him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's one thing when you do play Bristol, is they do occasionally give you a bit of space as well. Um, so yeah, if you've got Marcus Smith, I'd keep him on your team. But yeah, I think Bristol will uh have a bit of fun at the Principality. Uh and hopefully the fun will continue in at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium whilst I'm eating my lovely sandwiches in my comfy chair.
SPEAKER_01Saracens against the Saints at the showdown six prawn sandwich brigade whilst I've been watching Saracens against Northampton.
SPEAKER_02I'm just going for Dizzy Rascal at the half time show, Rory, if I'm honest.
SPEAKER_01Oh, because you're a rascal, Dizzy Rascal. What a rascal, Dizzy Rascal. Exactly. Um, yeah, I'm I'm assuming Saints pick in their internationals this week and go and four more. Um I think they will be. I don't know how much of a follower of football you are these days, David, but uh the home team hasn't been exactly thriving at North at uh Tottenham now suppose. Very well aware, very well aware. Um to be yeah, I ultimately I think I've got to come away and say that Northampton will will win this one. Um I have a feeling Saracens might try and make it a tight affair and then Northampton will pull away second half, final quarter, maybe. Yeah. So I'm thinking 27-16 to Northampton.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I could I I'm certainly expecting Northampton to win. I I've I've I'm intrigued to see the Saracens lineup because at the end of that game against Bath, like the likes of Willis looked like he was on one leg. Uh Gonzalez went off injured at half time. It looked like they took a lot of injuries in that game.
SPEAKER_01They took some punishment, yeah.
SPEAKER_02They took some punishment, and then like Ben Earl. So I'm assuming Ben Earl will be rested in this game, or they're gonna rest in the Champions Cup because he needs to be rested for a game. We might see the likes of George and Atoji come back, but I don't think that's enough to turn round that Saracens team that I saw in that second half against Bath. So I and I think Northampton will have they like the big occasion. Pollock will be there ging up the crowd, dancing along to Dizzy Rascal. Um, so yeah, I think Saints get the win, and I hope to be enjoying it thoroughly from my comfy seat. And then to round it up, Sail Sharks against Bath.
SPEAKER_01Well, I can't see past a Bath win here. Um I'm gonna say 40 points to 12.
Launching The 20 Under 20 Watchlist
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's hard to see beyond that, really, because Bath don't really have to worry about resting players because they have enough world-class players sitting around in the stands, let alone on the bench. Um they may bring George Ford back, but I don't think he'll be able to steer Sale to something magnificent against this Bath side, so yeah, I agree. I I think yeah, I was thinking maybe 30, 17. Um, but yeah, I think comfortable for Bath. Uh a comfortable five points for them away from home, which I I think we're seeing the cream rising to the top. Um, but we'll see, we'll reconvene next week, Rory, and see how those predictions go. Um, but I just alluded to final feature. One thing that I'm going to be announcing people on the socials over the next few days is a new thing that I'm going to do. Um you know, you know me, Rory. I'm a I'm a champion for the future of rugby, the future generation. Uh keep a close tab on kind of academy and age grade rugby. So I thought I've seen other things do it, I've seen football do it, I see other things in rugby do it. The Ruxmalls and Oval Balls, 20 to watch under 20. So that's what I'm going to do. So 20 under 20. Uh and the trick is listener slash viewer, I'm going to pick one from each team, and then I'm going to leave 20 spots open. And I'm going to put the question out there. Who do you think under the age of 20? So this isn't under 20, uh, you have to be under the age of 20. Who are the ones that you are watching that you think have the the minerals to go all the way? Uh, and the whole idea is so we'll keep a track of them once they get past 20, and then I'm going to keep an honor roll or kind of some sort. Not an execution, not an execution, but they will become the alumni of the R Mob 20 under 20. And they're all going to get given a number, and we're just going to see how their careers progress. Some of them may fizzle away down the national leagues to grassroots and find careers and other things. But I'm hoping basically this is just going to become testament to our talent spotting abilities, Rory. Um one thing I'm going to give you, Rory, is I'm going to let you pick the Gloucester player. I can let you know who I was going to say, but I was going to let you pick the Gloucester player if you wanted to uh veto my pick.
SPEAKER_01Um, well, under 20. Uh let me just double check how old Dan Gwynne is. Because I think he might already have reached the 20 mile now.
SPEAKER_02I don't think he has just yet.
SPEAKER_01He has. He's now 20 years old as of 2nd of February.
SPEAKER_02In which case he would have been up there if if he was.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, there's Kyo James, who's not far off, but I'm going to go with Max Knight in that case. Um over his brother. Not Max Knight, Will Knight, sorry. Will Knight. Max Knight's the older brother. Max Knight's 22. Will Knight, who is just coming up for his 19th birthday in a couple of weeks. Um, plays played some games for the first team this year, looked uh looked good in struggling in struggling Gloucester teams. Um, looks like he's definitely got the talent to be at that level, looked really good for England 20s. Um I think Will Knight is absolutely going places. Um, I would shout out the likes of Kai O James, uh Ken Freeman Price, um John O'Baldin, Danny Height. There's some good players coming through, but I think Will Knight is probably the one to watch for Gloucester.
SPEAKER_02Will Knight was the one I would have chosen as well. So I'm glad we're agreed on that. Um excellent. My Saints pick as well for it, if you are interested. It'd be really easy for me to go Edo Todaro. It'll be really easy for me to go James Pater, but I'm going Jack Lewis, the captain of the Northampton Saints School for Boys, who just won the Schools Cup as a state school. Congratulations, lads. Congratulations, lads. Uh he at the age of 17 made a senior rugby debut in the Prem Rugby Cup for Northampton Saints. Yes, I do know this lad, yeah. Did not look out of place one bit. Uh and uh the coaches have joked that they need to check his passport because he does not look like a 17-year-old.
SPEAKER_01And if you look at the pictures, he's got the thighs of a full-grown adult from Tonga.
Final Thoughts And Subscribe Reminder
SPEAKER_02So I I genuinely think, considering he may have more growing and more filling out to come, he could become an absolute wrecking ball. Uh so for me, he's my Northampton Saint 20 under 20 pick of one to watch. Right. Um, but what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna put the rest of the teams out there on a socials on a post I'm gonna do in the week, and uh then invite people to let me know who they pick. And the rest will it won't be one for each team, it'll just be the 10 who I deem the most worth looking out for. Uh but I thought this is a nice little fun thing to do. And it's good to be something bit do something bit different, and then obviously we'll keep tabs on them all. Uh maybe have you know virtual graduation ceremonies when they pass the age of 20, and then we have to select someone new to come in to the 20. Um, and obviously give that give that perhaps an option to listeners to vote for who goes in. Um we'll just see where it goes, you know. Yeah, I love it. We're innovative. Uh we like to try new things here. So yeah, but I think that's it for now, Rory. I know you've got some uh schmoozing to go and do um in the hotel lobby. Uh so before you go and do that, do you have Any final thoughts for the listener? On that continental note. We've been Ruxmalls and Ogleballs. Hope you've enjoyed listening. If you have, make sure to like, follow, subscribe, and send us those messages. And we'll be back again next week with some more rugby poetry. Uh but for now, goodbye.
SPEAKER_01La tada.
