We actually had to remove an episode.

Fines totaling 24,727 AUD were issued.

Even when the language is careful and no medical claims are actually being made.

So yeah, that was definitely not something we had on our bingo card.

Today we're talking about natural pet health, but not in the way we usually do. We're not breaking down ingredients or sharing protocols.

We're having a real conversation about what it's actually like to operate in this pet wellness space right now, because if you've ever wondered why certain natural pet health conversations suddenly disappear, or why pet products quietly change their wording, product names, or product labels, we want to share what we've actually experienced firsthand.

And with that being said, welcome back to the Next Level Pet Parent Podcast.

This is where we unveil expert tips to help you raise healthy, long-living pets while taking you behind the scenes of the pet industry.

If you've been here since last season, thank you so much. I'm so grateful you're here. We took a longer break than we expected. A lot has happened behind the scenes, but we're back now with season two of the podcast, and we've got an absolutely incredible lineup of pet health experts for you this season.

In today's episode, we are going to share what has led to the episode being removed, what that moment taught us about the current natural pet health landscape across different countries and platforms, and what you can expect from the next stretch of expert conversations we've already recorded.

That being said, let's dive in.

Welcome to season two of the Next Level Pet Parent Podcast.

I am so excited to be starting this podcast again.

Yeah, I'm really, really excited.

It's been a while. We took a long break. Many things have happened since the last episode that we released until where we are now. So I'm excited to talk about it all.

Yeah. We're going to be talking a lot about the behind the scenes of what it's been like shooting this podcast and recapping the last season.

Yeah, talking about some crazy stuff that happened because we had to take one episode down, which still isn't up again because of regulatory issues. So I think you're going to be talking about that a little more.

Looking back at season one, what would you say has surprised you the most, actually?

I would probably say episode two with Julie Anne Lee, where we spoke really in-depth about allergies in pets and the actual root cause of allergy-like symptoms.

That was probably the most surprising, although I must say I'm not surprised, but I am surprised. I mean, I knew that this episode, or I really hoped that this episode would do really well, and it did.

And what I would say regarding this is that allergies are the number one issue that we deal with at PAWDEGA. Since we've launched our store until now, we have pet parents coming to us with so many allergy-like symptoms in their animals: itchy skin, hot spots, diarrhea, all of that.

Yeah. Anything that you can think of that is related to skin issues, we have pretty much seen.

This episode was really great because it really gave an understanding to so many pet parents on what might actually be happening with their animal, like getting at the root cause and not handing out medications like Apoquel or Cytopoint just to mask the symptoms.

Yeah. So I had so many great reviews about this episode. I think it's the number one video on our entire YouTube channel right now.

Is it? Or almost. Is the IBD video still the top one?

IBD? Our personal experience with Milka, I think that's the number one. There might be one more ahead of that, which is where we talk about the top three things that you can add to your pet's kibble.

Yeah. But podcast episode number two with Julie Anne, it's at 40,000 views right now. And we're super excited about that because it's helping pets all over the world.

And feedback on this episode has been really amazing. And it's one of the biggest reasons why we're like, okay, this podcast is what we have to spend our time and energy on because we really are reaching pet parents where we need to reach them.

For sure. And you know, the thing with whenever you do a project like a podcast, and when you distribute it through all these different forms of media such as YouTube and Apple Podcasts and all these different forms of media, it does take a while sometimes to actually get the feedback.

And creating a podcast does take time. And actually, this podcast took, you know, a little while to actually take off.

And we weren't really sure if it's actually working. Do people actually like this form of media? We weren't sure.

But then, I mean, I think this is what surprised me the most, that people are really reacting to this and really wanting more information, such as the information that we're giving out by working with all these different integrative and holistic veterinarians.

So I would probably say this is what surprised me the most, the amount of time it took to actually finally start reaching people through this podcast.

And I'm so happy that we did, because we are, yeah, as you said, helping animals all over the world because of it.

It's so true. I mean, we've had so many great conversations in season one of this podcast.

We've had Dr. Katie Kangas on, who I personally really, really, really enjoyed that conversation with, because that was all about veterinary care and how to help really get the best care for our animals, and getting second opinions and finding a vet that we trust and that we can have a very great relationship with.

Yeah. And then other ones that we interviewed were Dr. Lynda Loudon, Billy Hoekman, Keri Marion.

We've interviewed CBD Dog Health, Carter, and we have learned so much from season one, and we are actually really making changes in season two.

And in a minute, we are going to talk about what our listeners can expect for season two of the podcast and what changes we're going to make moving forward.

Before we talk about that, let's talk about the episode that we had to remove because of regulatory issues. I'm going to have you answer that.

One of the most unexpected moments from last season was that we had to remove an episode from the podcast.

It was an episode with Phivo, the founder of Augustine Approved, a natural pet supplement company based in Australia, where we talked about nutritional deficiencies in dogs and cats and the difference between natural whole-food vitamins and synthetic vitamins.

Now, we really enjoyed the conversation, and we actually really felt that it provided genuine value to pet parents.

And a few weeks after that episode went live, we were contacted and asked to take that episode down due to ongoing legal matters involving Phivo, the founder of Augustine Approved.

Now, according to publicly available information and official statements, fines totaling 24,727 AUD were issued to Augustine Approved in relation to selling certified organic coconut oil and a turmeric-based product.

According to the news media outlet the Herald Sun, the case involves nearly $100,000 connected to registering coconut oil and the turmeric-based product Super Heal as chemicals.

Now, because this matter is currently being handled through the appropriate legal channels, and Augustine Approved has publicly stated their intention to challenge the decision, we have removed the episode from the podcast out of respect for the situation.

Now it's been almost a year, but because this legal process is still ongoing, we haven't been able to put that episode back online. Hopefully we will get to that in the future.

Now, this was not a comfortable decision for us because the episode provided real value to pet parents, and we had invested significant time and resources to actually create it.

Now, although the situation was extremely frustrating, our goal is to educate, have thoughtful conversations, and to operate responsibly within the regulatory environments that exist.

But this experience did highlight something important for us. It is becoming increasingly difficult to talk openly about natural pet health and natural pet products, even when the language is careful and no medical claims are actually being made.

And what makes this especially confusing is that there's a real paradox in the pet industry.

On one hand, we constantly hear that the pet industry is largely unregulated, and in many ways that is definitely true, particularly when it comes to things like ingredient quality, safety standards, and transparency.

But at the same time, many natural pet brands are being very tightly controlled in what they can say about their products and how those products must be registered.

That moment really forced us to reflect on how we structure discussions, how we choose our language, and how we move forward responsibly while still having meaningful conversations in this space.

I'm going to speak generally now. I'm not going to say that it was in this episode or anything like that.

Yeah, don't get this upset.

But basically, you know, one of the challenges that we have as well whenever we're talking about natural pet health and things that can help, right, we literally have to speak like this: this can help. We cannot say this will cure, right?

Those type of things will definitely get you flagged.

But each country has its own regulation on what manufacturers or pet stores can actually say when it comes to health.

Generally speaking, let's just generalize here. If a pet brand shares a before and after picture, let's say the Australian government authority says, well, you're making a claim because you're showing what the results could be.

But at the end of the day, what's happening is that brands are sharing verified reviews by people that are saying how these products are actually helping, not that the brands themselves are making any types of health claims.

Right? Nobody says you're going to get the same exact results.

And we see it also in the UAE, how we have a store in the UAE and we also have a store in America.

And I'll just give an example of actually what happened over Facebook and I believe through Google Ads.

We have been running an ad of a before and after picture in the UAE. We took that same exact ad and we put that in America, and that got flagged and banned.

And it was like, well, same photo, what's the difference? The difference is it's actually the same photo, what's the difference? We're also putting it on the same platform.

So in this case it was Facebook in America and Facebook in the UAE. And it works in one country and it doesn't work in another.

Each country has its own regulations. It's also just really challenging because we're just trying to show how these products can help.

Again, help. We're not saying this is what you should expect.

Yeah. And I think just in general, doing what we're doing, speaking with brands in the natural health space, we hear this from all angles, how hard it is becoming to actually tell consumers what their natural products are helping with or supporting.

Yeah, because natural brands are being a lot more censored than it seems like drug companies and things like that.

So, and saying, you know, we started PAWDEGA almost six years ago, right? The things that some of the brands, just simple things in their titles, like the name of their products, had to simply change.

Remember Anti-Vaccine Analysis, which is helping to reduce the adverse reactions of vaccinations? That name had to change.

Some of the wording on the packaging had to change. We've seen this with CBD Dog Health. They had to remove certain words on their products.

I would probably say maybe we've seen 30 to 40% of the brands that we've been working with over the last five to six years, a lot of their labeling has changed.

Even Kin+Kind, right, like the flea and tick product. Before they used to make a claim that this would kill ticks within a few minutes and kill fleas within a few minutes.

They're not saying that anymore, because the crackdown on these products is getting so hardcore.

And just as you said, we're seeing pharmaceutical drug companies just saying whatever they want, you know, and it kind of sucks, you know, because these products also come with real adverse side effects, potentially.

Yeah. Which, to be honest, thankfully in America a lot of these companies, when they run the ads, they do have to have all of these disclaimers in there.

But that's true when we're watching commercials for human products. But a lot of the animal products, we know warnings are not actually getting to pet parents.

For example, we went into one of these pet food stores or pet stores, and we were looking at all these chemical-based flea and tick products, and there's no warning at all on the product.

But we know that the FDA has warnings against these products, but these warnings aren't reaching pet parents.

Yeah. Just to add to that, also when we opened our PAWDEGA USA store, we actually redid our entire website because there were so many things that we had on our website in the UAE, and we were no longer able to say these things on our USA website.

And again, we've always been very, very careful with not making any cure statements or claim statements, anything like that. We've always been careful with that.

But still, we had to remove so many things, even down to things like, you know, chaga mushroom has been scientifically proven to help.

You know, hold on. I want to make you even right now.

Even right now, as you say this. Yeah, right. Even right now, as you say this, you have to literally think, okay, how do I say this without making any type of claims? There's research behind that. This proves, you know, there's research, tons of research behind chaga mushrooms, behind turkey tail mushrooms, behind turmeric.

These are foods. That's all we're talking about right here.

We're talking about medicinal mushrooms and herbs that can actually help. And these things have hundreds, if not thousands, of studies behind them.

And we're linking to these studies on our product pages. But these product pages are still getting flagged.

And we're like, but we're not even saying, you know, this is going to cure this or this is going to fix whatever problem you have. We're just saying, hey, this is what this study says, and it may be helpful for your animal.

And that's how we always talk, right? But the problem with Google, Facebook, and all these other social media platforms is that when they flag your page, they don't say, hey, it's this one sentence right here that needs to go.

You're really trying to have to figure out, okay, let me delete this word.

At one point, we deleted cancer all up from our website. We just wouldn't even use the word cancer because we're thinking maybe it's that word that is flagging.

And then at some point, the pages are still getting flagged. We're like, okay, well, how do we talk about this stuff? Because it's important.

And being able to help pet parents figure out how they can help their animal without getting flagged.

And at some point we're just like, you know what? We just have to minimize the amount of information that we're sharing on our websites.

And it just honestly really sucks that this is how we have to talk, you know.

Yeah. It's just crazy how in season one of our podcast that was kind of a common theme of a lot of the people that we did interview.

And yeah, regarding Phivo's episode, I really do hope that we can put it back up at some point.

And I hope that he can also overcome his legal issues with the Australian government.

Yeah, I really do hope that he wins because he has been dealing with ongoing issues with the Australian government for years. This is way before this episode.

They have been pretty much harassing him over every little thing. And that's why, you know, earlier you mentioned he's so cautious because he has the Australian government breathing down his neck whenever he says anything.

So we also have to be careful. But I have just seen how all the brands that we have been working with, how they have changed in the way that they speak and the way that they also advertise.

It's so challenging. It is so hard to speak about natural pet health.

We probably should send him a transcript of this conversation right now, this week, before we launch this episode, just to make sure it's all good.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about season two of the Next Level Pet Parent Podcast. What can listeners expect in season two?

And I think I just want to start by saying I'm super excited about this one change that we're making in season two, or not a change, but an introduction, which is to have two larger series of episodes about a certain topic.

So we have, I think, five episodes coming out on the topic of flea and tick care for our dogs, where we have interviewed some of the best well-known integrative and holistic pet care experts on all things flea and tick.

So we've interviewed Dr. Judy Morgan, we have Rita Hogan, we've got Julie Anne Lee, and they're all sharing their own research into things like conventional flea and tick treatments and natural alternatives.

And one of our guests is even sharing her personal story on dealing with Lyme disease, which is a tick-borne disease.

Spoiler alert, we're also sharing Milka's story, who has just overcome early last year, and Ehrlichia, which was scary, but we did manage to support her naturally.

And I'm excited to share that experience in the podcast because I think it will help a lot of pet parents.

Then the second larger series that we have coming up in season two is going to be about allergies and yeast.

Just because, like you said earlier, this is such a crazy important topic for pet parents, and just one of the number one things that pet parents are looking for help with when they come to PAWDEGA.

So yeah, again, we've got an amazing lineup of people.

Another really interesting thing is the AI episode that we have coming up. You know, this is really, really, really, really interesting.

I would not have imagined that we would really be covering artificial intelligence, but it's almost impossible to really not come across different forms of AI when it comes to pet health.

It is really popping up a lot, and we're seeing great things come out of it, right?

But we're also seeing some pretty dangerous stuff come out of it too. So we are speaking to Dr. Conor Brady about AI and pet health and how to use chatbots like ChatGPT responsibly.

So I'm really excited about that. I'm even thinking of maybe even doing another episode about AI because it's such a massive topic and there's some crazy stuff happening.

And it's transforming the way that we live as human beings, but it is also going to really influence how it affects our animals.

Yeah. And for everyone listening right now, if you have a topic that's on your mind right now that you wish we would cover in our upcoming episodes, definitely leave a comment below for us or send us a message with the topic.

Because yeah, that's very important for us to get that input too.

So talking about changes that we've made in season two of the Next Level Pet Parent Podcast, I think most of the changes are kind of behind the scenes that we're making.

But one big change that our listeners are definitely going to notice is it's only one of us hosting each episode now.

So, I mean, some of them. Most of them.

Most of them. Most of them.

There are a few that we shot earlier that will just be both of us. I think it might be only one.

Yeah, actually two episodes. Two episodes. One with Dr. Lynda Loudon and one with Angela Ardolino.

But that's it. After those two episodes, everything is going to be just a solo interview with one of our guests.

And that is making things a lot easier for us behind the scenes. And the reason why this is happening is because I talk too much.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't let Larry talk.

That's right. Charly has a lot of questions. And I also have some questions, but we don't really know how we can both get our questions in.

And it's a lot of thinking that's happening when we are speaking with our guests as well.

And we just felt like this change felt a little bit more natural for us. And it didn't feel forced, like, okay, I need some speaking time too.

So that's a change that you're going to see within the second season going forward.

Yeah, I really like the change, to be honest, because yeah, it just makes everything so much easier.

I have to say though, I'm going to be 100% transparent with you guys, I'm not always comfortable speaking on camera. So I have gained a lot of confidence.

And I didn't think that I could do this interviewing stuff by myself, but I actually can do it.

And if you are thinking about interviewing doctors and just people in general, go for it. And, you know, break out of your shell and comfort zone.

Exactly.

Something I'm also really excited about are our upcoming episodes with Billy Hoekman from Green Juju.

We actually went to Pennsylvania to visit him and shoot three episodes with him, one about raw milk benefits.

We've got some allergy relief in there as well. And then he talked to us about fermentation a lot and probiotics.

But what was also really exciting with that trip, we got to visit the goat farm with Billy that they use for the raw milk.

And then we also got to see the cultures, the starter cultures of the Green Juju probiotics, which is the raw milk that he has, or the kefir that he has, that he's creating in his kitchen.

And then also the kombucha that he's been growing for, I think he said ten years, right?

Ten-plus years. And I got to hold it. He was terrified of me holding it, and it was so heavy.

I was actually scared that I would drop it and I would be traumatized, honestly.

Would be canceled. Yeah, for the rest of my life. I would think about that literally for the rest of my life.

I mean, imagine growing kombucha for ten-plus years. I remember when I used to make kombucha for maybe a few years.

You used to do it off and on, but every now and then your kombucha would just kind of die out. So it would not be alive.

So knowing how hard it was for you to make kombucha, to know that he's been doing the same culture for ten-plus years is actually pretty crazy.

And to now know that this culture has actually transformed into a probiotic that is being sold all over the world is actually pretty crazy, to know that it started in that kitchen.

So you can find the behind-the-scenes video of that on the podcast YouTube channel.

Yeah, we've got two behind-the-scenes videos of our trip to Pennsylvania, one of the goat farm and then one of the kitchen magic.

Magic. Yeah, exactly.

So many of you may notice that our backgrounds change very regularly when you're watching online.

And a big part of that reason is because we have been traveling and working remotely for the last two years now, almost two years.

And we have been in many different places since we left our home in Dubai in 2024.

We have been living in different places such as the United States, Mexico, Germany. We have spent several months in Thailand, and now we are actually here in Cape Town, South Africa, where we are calling home for the next couple of months.

Yeah, and this is actually something that a lot of pet parents have been sending us so many questions about.

And it's also something that keeps popping up in the podcast as well, right? The topic of where we are and what those places are challenging us with, because when it comes to traveling with a dog internationally, there are a lot of challenges.

And for example, in Thailand we had a really big flea and tick problem, which I guess inspired the series in season two.

Yeah, the flea and tick series, because we learned so much through that.

And again, Milka had a tick-borne disease just because of the sheer number of ticks that she had.

Yeah. Everything natural, and we just went to one place and it was just ticks everywhere.

And we were actually killing the ticks. We were managing these ticks.

And she actually ended up getting Ehrlichia several weeks later after she'd been exposed to those ticks.

We were literally washing Milka on the side of the road with the Kin+Kind shampoo, just bathing her with a bottle of water because there was no shower.

Bottled water. I was like, okay, we need more water, go buy more.

And the water was cold. The water was freezing.

He was washing Milka on the side of the road with cold water.

But first of all, we have also another video online where we went to a camel farm in Dubai, which also had a massive tick problem.

So we know this shampoo actually works, and you can find that on our YouTube channel.

But we were using it in Thailand and it was working. But the problem is, unfortunately, Milka already had been infected with Ehrlichia.

And that was really crazy. And we get into much more detail about that in a future episode with Julie Anne Lee, where we talk about her experience with Lyme disease and where we talk about our experience with Milka having Ehrlichia.

I would also say that travel in general has made me want to be more prepared about how we actually react to various health concerns.

So even if we weren't traveling anymore, the importance of having a first aid kit is so critically important, and having the tools in your home so that way you can react as quickly as possible.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, having a holistic first aid kit, I've always been very, very big on that, and we've always had one.

But the experiences that we've had over the past two years traveling with Milka, it showed me that there were some gaps in our holistic aid kit.

Yeah. So Milka and ourselves.

Yeah, exactly. And those are some things that we're going to be sharing in season two of this podcast.

And again, as of right now, we don't have any specific episode planned when it comes to traveling internationally with dogs.

But if this is something that our listeners are interested in, then definitely, again, let us know in the comments or send us a message about it and ask us your questions so we can share more about that and maybe do a separate episode on that as well.

Yeah, and wherever we go, we try to create a video about it and tell you exactly how to get into a certain country.

So for example, right now we're in South Africa, there'll be a video about how to get your dog into South Africa, because we want to share this information freely with people so that way they can do it themselves and hopefully save a lot of money.

Because we know traveling with a dog can be really expensive, especially if you have to go and hire a pet relocator.

Speaking in general, I think if you are listening right now and you are enjoying this podcast in general, I would really, really love your opinion and love to hear what you like, what you want us to talk about next, who you want us to interview, and especially what parts of the podcast you enjoy and what parts maybe we can improve.

Because in general, it takes so much time for us to create this podcast. I mean, just the preparation alone for one expert interview is like an entire day, eight hours, right?

So it takes us a lot, a lot of time to create these episodes. And we really want to make sure that the time that we spend on creating these episodes is time well spent and is something that you, the listener, are actually going to enjoy listening to.

So yeah, we really value your feedback and your input and your ideas. So definitely don't hold back, please.

Yeah, for sure. That's exactly what I would say. And it would mean a lot to us as well, like you have no idea.

I would say that whenever a listener likes, comments, and subscribes to our channel, it really does go a long way.

And the reason why this matters so much is because, just as you said, it could take like eight hours to just prep a video.

That doesn't include the actual shooting of that content, the publishing of that content, the editing of that content, and reviewing all of this footage. That's just excluding all of that information as well.

What happens, and I kind of mentioned this earlier, is when you're starting something new, it can take a while for that to grow and compound and really explode.

That's what happened last year, right? It took several months for some episodes to really pick up.

But several months is a long time to find out if it's worth it or not, right?

And then it took us a while to figure that out. And then we're like, oh wow.

We probably launched our first episode in January, and we didn't really see it take off until June, July, August.

And then by then we were like, okay, we don't know if this is working or not. And then it was actually working, right?

Yeah. So that's why I think it matters that if you like the content, please like it. If it resonates with you and you want to give some feedback, please do give the feedback.

We read every single comment. We reply to every single comment.

And it would mean the absolute world to us if you just like, comment, share it with a friend. All of those things are free.

And it means the absolute world to us, and it helps us to actually help even more people, right?

Because once these platforms see people engaging with this, the algorithm says, oh, maybe we should show this to more people.

And it really does, you have no idea, go a long, long way.

Yeah. And at the end of the day it helps us continue with the podcast too.

So yeah. Yeah. Overall I just want to say I am super excited about the second season of this podcast.

And I can't wait to see where that takes us. I can't wait to see how that resonates with our listeners.

And I'm just very excited.

Me too.

If there's one thing I'd want to leave you with today, it's this. We're genuinely grateful that you're here and you're listening to this podcast.

Thank you for listening, and thank you for caring enough about your dog or cat to lean into these deeper conversations.

This podcast takes a lot of time and intention to create, and knowing there are thoughtful pet parents like you on the other side makes it completely worth it for us.

If these conversations have been helpful for you, I would also encourage you to download our free guide, The Holistic Pet Wellness Blueprint.

It's a carefully selected collection of experts, natural brands, and trusted resources we personally stand behind, and it's designed to bring clarity, not overwhelm.

You'll find the free download linked below in the description, and if you want to stay connected for what's coming next, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss the upcoming conversations.

I'm really, really excited about where this podcast is going, and I'm grateful you're choosing to be part of it.

See you in the next one.