Innovative Film Distribution:Christie Marchese, Kinema & Distribution Playbook

Christie Marchese is the founder and CEO of Kinema. Kinema revolutionizes how films are distributed, opening new opportunities for filmmakers and studios to reach their audiences and maximizing revenue through screening tours, virtual events, and TVOD.Christie has won several industry recognitions, including being named one of Fortune’s Rising Female Founders in 2023 and Fast Company’s Most Creative People in 2021. Currently she is managing Kinema and has just released the Distribution Playbook for filmmakers.  https://thedistributionplaybook.notion.siteTo learn more about Carole Dean and From the Heart Productions visit www.FromtheHeartProductions.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:01

Blog Holmes Radio.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Hi and welcome to the Art of Film Funding. I'm your co-host, Claire Papan, along with Carol Dean, author of the best-selling book, The Art of Film Funding. Carol is also the founder and president of From the Heart Productions and the host of this show. Our very special guest today, Christy Marcese, is the founder and CEO of Kinema. Kinema revolutionizes how films are distributed, opening new opportunities for filmmakers and studios to reach their audiences and maximizing revenue through screening tours, virtual events, and TVOD. She won several industry recognitions, including being named one of the fortune's rising female founders in 2023 and Fast Company's Most Creative People in 2021. Currently on the board of Subject Matter and the ReInvent Stockton Foundation and the Capacity Council for Brown Girls Doc Mafia. Christy holds a BA from SDSU in International Security and Conflict Resolution with a focus on Arabic and the Middle East. And she's one of the creators of the Distribution Playbook. And Carol, I know you are a big supporter of Christy, and you've been promoting Christy's distribution playbook as an important educational tool for filmmakers.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

That's right, Claire. It's a great book. It's really one of the most amazing uh contributions made to filmmaking in a long time. And thank you so much, Christy, for joining us. Oh, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

And of course, I always want to make sure what you gals know, but Emily Best was 100% the the other co-creator in this. And of course, we had other collaborators that have submitted other pieces to it. So thank you for highlighting it and supporting it.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Yes, John Reese was in there. I I love his work. He's always been on top of what is it you want to do? You have to be clear from the moment you start that film and where you want it to go, what's your destination. Uh and this is so important to have. You've uh highlighted all the important things. Before you get started, let's let's set these things in motion, is what the book says. So what we want to cover today is uh I want to know more about Kanema uh and how you uh plan to reach this wider, more targeted audience, and uh what are the latest trends in distributions for independent filmmakers? Those are the things we want to cover. So let's start with Kanema's vision. Kenema's vision. What inspired you to create it and how does it differ from traditional distribution platforms? Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

I'm I'm happy to chat about that. And you're right, there's so there are so many topics we can we can cover in this. So I'm excited to see how much of these fit in. And I'm a huge fan of John Reid too. Actually, it's so funny, I just got off a call with him because he's doing some incredible strategic distribution work for a film that was on the platform. Uh, that kind of highlights the work that we're doing. So we built Kinema, we started a few years ago, and it was built off of the work I did at an agency I started and ran called Picture Motion. Picture Motion was an impact agency, I shouldn't say was, is an impact agency in the entertainment space by filmmakers, distributors, uh streamers of studios and brands to develop and implement impact campaigns around social issue or social cause, film and TV. And a big part of that for film became screening tours. How do we bring the film to the people who want to and need to see it most? And it's a pretty logistical thing running screening tours. You know, you're reaching out to potential organizations and spaces to host screenings, they're sending a licensing agreement. Oftentimes they're paying that licensing fee. You have to send the film file. It's very tactical. And so the idea for Kenema from a logistics standpoint was let's just make this easier using technology. I'd say sign an agreement online, book the film online, send the film online, and that'll cut down on costs and allow us to reach more people. So the initial concept. And of course, it's shifted over the last few years, and we now support both the in-person screening that inspired this originally, and virtual events. And virtual events allow us to reach audiences that are not geographically tied together. So if it's a nonprofit organization with a global following, or an influencer with a more local following, but not all in the exact same city, but maybe across the state, they can then come together and watch the film online. And our approach for the for Kinema was initially much more focused on the screening host and the organizers and making it easier for them. But with all the changes in distribution over the last few years, we've even shifted our focus and mission to better serve the creative community. How do we create tools that allow filmmakers who are opting to go more of the um, we don't want to say self-distribution or active distribution route and say and manage their film's distribution themselves, how do we give them the best set of tools to reach those audiences, those screening hosts, um in an affordable, efficient way? And so to kind of home back in on your question, you're often, and to what John says a lot, you'd be a real you're as a filmmaker, you need to know who your film is for. And I think it was Emily or someone who said, if you say your film is for everyone, it's for nobody. If the film's for everyone, it's for no one. And so you have to know who that audience is and how to reach them. And so our idea is that our system allows to make it easier for once you reach that audience for them to watch the film or to host the screening of the film, and for you to collect and store that information. Who is that screening host? Where did they watch the film? And if they want to receive information from you, continue to build a relationship and email that person or screening host afterwards. That's the that's a quick, not so quick history of of cinema and what we're focused on.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

Yes, so it's a new form of distribution, right? And it's identifying your audience and uh making your film for that audience and getting it screened as uh to those people that are interested in it are if it's to change thought patterns, if it's if you have to change someone's idea on a subject, then you know how to get it to the right people to achieve your goal, correct?

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Yeah. I feel like and the new the new distribution piece of it is really the application of technology. Um there's we think about what what is new distribution, uh there's it's it is mostly related to technology or the types of rights. So whether you have you know your the different types of VOD rights are subscription VOD, like a Netflix, that's a new type of distribution. Advertising VOD, AV AVOD, it's um another type of distribution that didn't quite exist before. But for this, uh half of our platform is more community cinema. And the concept of community cinema has has been around for a while, bringing people together to watch the movie and have a conversation afterwards. The new piece for us is the technology of making it easier to do so.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

Exactly. Well, in the distribution playbook, um, can you give us an overview of what it covers and how filmmakers can best utilize it?

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Oh yeah. I'd say in order to utilize it, you can go to thedistanceplaybook.com or distribution playbook.notion dot site, as we built it on Notion. Uh and our our intent um is to cover as much as possible, but be an entry point without going too in in depth on um every aspect of it, because that could be endless. And we we, when I say we, I mean Emily and I, um want to remind people it's coming from a US perspective because their film distribution does look different in different countries and territories, and of course, language. So the idea is twofold. One, let's not gatekeep this information. Much of the information is withheld in different parts of the industry. Theatrical distributors really know theatrical distribution super well. Um, grassroots community organizers know that type of distribution. Uh, the technologists know the streaming platforms really well. So, how can we kind of share the entry-level information across all of those areas? And another piece that was really important, and Emily did a great job of this, was remind people before they read the read the playbook or enter into it, there's some really important things to understand before getting started. And it's not to be um pessimistic about it, it's just to be a little bit realistic about statistically how difficult it is to have significant success for any one film um in the independent space, especially earlier in your career. And so I think she does a great job of kind of embracing that. Remember that most movies don't make their money back. Um when it comes to distribution, not no one's gonna solve this problem for you. You care about your film the most, and so it is ultimately up to you to steer that ship and to remember that all distribution is active distribution. Even if someone, even if you're the biggest celebrity and you're making a Marvel movie and Disney's distributing it, you're participating in the distribution by promoting it. You're participating in the publicity. So everybody is a part of the distribution. There are very little instances of someone just taking your film, running with it, and you're off scot-free. So that that was beautiful idea.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

And two That's what a lot of people think. They think is that I just, you know, m I've had people sign away all their rights. And I say, How could you do that? I was tired. I was at the end of of finally finally had a cut and somebody liked it and said, Oh, I'd love to distribute that. And they didn't give me any money, but they said, Oh, you'll share and you'll make money in the future, and I never saw a penny. And this has happened so many times, Christy. You're so no, you're so right.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

And it the exhaustion is so real. It's exhausting. Someone said that, like, I don't know, it's probably Bobby Bayer or someone who's like, it's a miracle that a movie gets made sometimes, especially a good one. The amount of things that have to come together, the the having to sell your idea, you're like, this is an idea in my brain, and I need to put some money against it. That is exhausting to sell and fund it. Then you go into the production part, it's exhausting to do the production, then you're in the editing, it's a like it's of course you love it, but it's it's a tax. And then of course you that's the part you sign up for as a filmmaker, and you go to film school or you watch movies and get love for it. There isn't a lot of there isn't really a distribution school. There is a marketing school specific to film. So I could I could totally understand that exhaustion and wanting to hand it off to someone.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

Yes. And so this is why I jumped with joy when I saw that before you get started. And one of the things I loved was the goal you put in there. What's your goal? Make make a decision now. What do you want to achieve? Thank you very much for that. Why did you think that was important?

SPEAKER_02 11:35

We used to do that at Fixture Motion when we would talk to filmmakers, and part of that is we're coming from the impact perspective, and we knew the film uh was about some sort of social issue, but we wanted to understand how to best build a campaign, and we find you know most um most most disappointments in life come from unmet expectations when two parties have different set of expectations. So we're trying to do is get expectations in line. What is success? And of course, like we want to create change with this film, but also there are many other factors at play here. Is the is there debt that needs to get repaid? Are there investors expecting to get repayment? Is this the filmmaker's first film and they want to get their second project funded? Is this um is it really just about the social issue? So we would ask them either to take a top three or top one or put in order. Like what is most important to you? And there was no wrong answer, truly, is do you want to win an award? Do you want to get your next project funded? Do you want to make change? And that just helps us better strategize. And I think for the filmmakers, especially as it relates to distribution, it helps make helps you make choices better. So you can decide should I spend my time and money on going on the festival tour? Should I spend my time and money on the impact producers? So should I spend my time and money on applying for different awards? And once you know what's important to you and what your goals are for yourself as a career and for your film and the obligations you've committed to, then you want and you know those goals, then you can make better decisions.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

Absolutely. And you could make money. And making money is another answer. And uh and some people want to uh change belief patterns. That's important. And uh all of these require a different or a different slant on your distribution, right? Correct. It's true. Yes, you just have to ask it who you work with, where you spend your money. Yes, and the most important thing is getting that clear up front. You may change your mind because it may take you two or three years to make the film during which you learn so much, you say, No, I'm not going after money. I'm going after uh my second film. Yeah, I d I know how hard it is now, so I want some a following for my second film and I want some money for it. So how do I get that? And that's good too. So but now you got you get into Sundance better than anyone I've ever seen with the festival acceptance rates and how difficult it is. Uh please share this with me, and I'll I'll tell you one thing. Uh, you know, we run a film grant, and uh marketing is a key issue with me. And so I can tell in the future I'll be able to say she read the distribution playbook, she knows what she's talking about. But right now, Christy, fifty percent of the people say I am going I my film will be screened at Sundance or Toronto or Burleigh in. Definitely, and they truly believe that I get one paragraph on distribution, and and that's when I know that this filmmaker is in big trouble, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I mean, I will say that you, if you're going to enter, it's like entering into a startup, um, starting your own company or starting a new Roboto and the audacity to believe that you can do it because everyone's gonna fight against you. So I would say it is absolutely helpful to have that dream and the belief and the audacity to do it, but always have the practicality of your backup plan or a conversation, and you know, talking about industry trends, a conversation I'm seeing happen more and more, is don't think of it as a backup plan. Like, of course you want that perfect Netflix deal to premiere at Sundance and have that $10 million documentary acquisition. But you also are giving up a lot of your rights to your point, as you said earlier, Carol. So what if plan A was controlling your distribution? Plan A was all right, I'm gonna raise enough funds, you know, equal to the amount of making my film or at least 50%. And if I were to choose to do my my own distribution, I would put it on these platforms for P VOD and then T VOD and then A VOD. And here's my marketing budget to do my own screening tour and press events and run my own advertising. Because I own all my film, I would get much better or or my rights, I would get a better split on everything. I'm not sharing it with the distributor in the same way. So I hope that we yes, have the dream, have the audacity, because you're gonna need that to get you through it, but also put together a smart plan and fund it when you're funding production, which I'm fully aware is much more easier said than done.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

Yes, but no, but you have to know the truth. You're making us face the truth. Uh like it or not, this is what that's just what's going on. So you better pull out your best creativity and realize that you're gonna have to give up probably surfing the web or your favorite social network hanging out is no longer viable for you. You're gonna have to go to work, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:45

I mean, it's true. It's I I I compare it a lot. I have not I have not made a film as a filmmaker on my own. You know, I started college in film school. I wanted to be an editor, I really love editing. That's that's the place where I felt most comfortable in the filmmaking process. Um and it you know, made a short sense. But it's in starting two companies, having two different types of startups, one an agency and one a tech company, I feel it's very similar to, in some ways, to making a film, where it's having to sell people on a belief, having them create a vision in their head of what's in your head and sell them on that, and then also show them how that's going to make them money. Because a lot of our investors um that have raised money for the second company, they're they're investing because they want this company to exist. They they truly want us to help solve this problem when it comes to distribution. And some investors do actually want and need, understandably, their money back with a margin, with a return. And so I understand what it's like to have to sell that vision. But in the startup world, in the business world, it's not just about the product you're building. It's also, well, how am I going to get people to that product? So if I'm making a startup company spoons or forks, I can't just make it and let it sit there. I've got to present my marketing plan for how I sell those spoons and forks. And I think that's the piece that's also missing from the uh and is changing in the last couple of years, but goal or filmmaker education, that the whole film, the whole business of your film doesn't end in the editing room. It ends after you've kind of recouped your funds or you've moved on to your next project. Your your film is the marketing and distribution as much as it is the production.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

Exactly. And I heard you mention influencers early on. And I'm beginning to realize the power of influencers for independent filmmakers. Can you speak to that? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

It's a it's a part of the marketing we did at Ficture Motion was this what we call outreach. Often in independent film space, part of a marketing strategy is called outreach. Listly means I'm going to do email marketing or I'm going to pitch to organizations and businesses that have a following. They have an email list of some sort because their audience, their email list, is interested in the topics or issues that my film is on. Um, or if it's you know, horses. I have a document around horses. I'm going to go to the different horse communities and horse training sites across the US and say, hey, would you promote this film? The virtual version of that now is which has been amplified to gazillion, are influencers. So it's another type of marketing, and there's fun conversations around like, is influencer, is that a form of PR? So just as you have an audience right here for the art of film funding and blog talk radio, like you you are an influencer in a sense, but you're coming at it from a journalistic perspective. So influencers are are in the same way. They've just built a following off of their personality or whatever their their topic is. And so yeah, I think it has to be absolutely a part of your marketing strategy. Now that the influencer industry has evolved, it often will cost something. Like you may have to pay an influencer. Um, and that's where it gets a little dicey um when and and you have to assess if it's correct for your film. But there are different ways that you can do affiliate fees. If an influencer is promoting seeing your film in theaters or promoting it to watch on you know iTunes, Apple, uh, Amazon, they will get an affiliate fee for the sales that come from their promotion of it. You can pay them for a product placement, like, hey, you know, watch the film and if you like it, give it a review or something. Um for someone who's maybe not a traditional film critic uh as an influencer, but they just cover this topic in some way. Or you invite them to a screening or a local screening of the film, and then should they choose organically uh to cover it, that's that's a a way to help get your film's word of mouth out through their audience. So I I do think influencer strategy has to be a part of it, but it's not so different from what we would call outreach in the more impact independent film world.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

Well, I was listening to um a gentleman who's really good at public relations, and he said that nowadays the uh when people are releasing the top A quality films, they um they take the they get their influencers on first class, bring them to the city w where the they're releasing the film, put them up in a posh hotel, treat them like royalty, and send them back home. And of course they're going to write something nice about the film. And that's in the budget. That's part of it. Where they might spend that on advertising in the past, they're putting it on uh influencers in the present. So they are a a very important aspect.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

You're trying to totally right. And there's uh there's a lot of because they're not technically not journalists, so they don't have the same journalistic guidelines. Um so they can be treated to a beautiful experience and be influenced themselves to write about how beautiful that experience is. They also might not. They could still you could pay a lot of money to have them in a nice hotel, and if they don't like the film, they might say that's your audience to their audience. And that's like a a risk willing to take, just like going to a critic, in a sense, will tell their honest opinion. And um if their audience the fun part about that is there's a market correction in a sense. If the influencer starts to look like they're too wined and dined. you know, by brand, their influencers will stop believing them and their impact becomes ineffective. So I think it's I think it makes sense. If you have the budget to bring them to something great, but also look at micro influencers. Like the um God, my friend was telling me her nieces that are in high school are micro influencers. They get free makeup and bathing suits because they have maybe two thousand followers or something. Yeah, they're not getting paid. They just get product. I'm like, how do I do that? I want some free product. But they have influence in their community.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Yeah. Well this is teaching peop uh children at at a young age how to market themselves and how to make money. Entrepreneurs they're creating. That's good. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

This is a new lemonade stand instead of a lemonade stand on the street corner.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

It's a influencing their TikToks. That's exactly right. Oh God, yes. I saw that my girlfriend had a Coca-Cola uh a box where she you know a cold box to keep uh food in, but it said Coca-Cola on the outside and I said, I think we ought to start selling Cokes on the street corner because there's a lot of traffic here. I think I was ten or twelve years old. And of course I had to do it away from my house. My father would've killed me. But we did we started selling Coca-Cola and the bus drivers would even stop and grab a Coke. It was hysterical and then my father found out about it and that was the end of that. But today that was my beginning into entrepreneurial work. And so yes this this is influencers now. Well I want to go back to the playbook as because I really love it. Every week every two weeks we have a film funding class and this I'm just giving it to them Christy in little bites because I'm not going to let them get away with not going to it and paying attention to it. So this week we're we're targeting we're doing audience targeting and creating partnerships. That's what I'm teaching quoting out of your playbook to drive them there so that they recognize the brilliance behind this book. So share with us audience targeting and creating partnerships please.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Oh my goodness that is you know someone someone actually wrote this in because we have a forum in which anyone can submit um ideas and and contributions to and someone was like this section could very much be expanded. I'm like this section could be an entire website on its own of like audience identification. So there's this I give that caveat of like this is just the beginning of it. But again it goes back to who first be able to super super hyper target your audience. And in the not in market in the marketing world for marketing a product you have to do audience or consumer profiles and you really build a character in your mind of who's going to go watch your film. It is a I'm going to stick with the horse documentary here. I think I was reading about it in documentary minus blog today. I'm looking at if it's a documentary but it's you know meant for uh for young women and to know how to best treat their horses. I'm really making this up here. I know I'm picturing a girl maybe 12 to 14 years old. She has to live somewhere where there's a horse ranch so maybe they're somewhat rural but I need a high density of people so maybe it's within the 25 mile radius of a major city let's say Los Angeles because I know that there are some horse ranches out there. And she has an estimated you know family income of about this size and you start to build that picture and that is exactly I'm trying to reach her and it humanizes your audience a bit. And that's one type of person I'm trying to reach. I'm also trying to reach her parents so typically maybe statistically does this this horse girl and presume she has two parents maybe but the mom takes her to classes. So I also am trying to target moms who are buying clothes in the horse category for their daughter and so where do they where do they buy that from? So what what magazines do they read? What websites do they go to what clothing shops do these two kind of character profiles go to? That's the level of specification you want to get when you're picturing your audience and it allows you to do a couple different things. One you can focus your time and energy and two you can focus your budget. So if you're doing Facebook ads or Instagram ads to find these profiles you can really really like hone down into that specificity of age location and interest um and two you know where to spend your time for publicity. If you're working with a publicist or you're doing it on your own what are the different horse magazines where you buy the horse clothes and that's the type of outreach you do. So I don't that's like that's I guess that's a starting point is knowing exactly who your audience is and how to reach them. On the other end of it and this is uh the harder part and there's some cool companies doing a good job at this like jolts how do you know if you've reached them and so I can email them I can pitch them the film but ultimately if they go to watch the film on another site Amazon, um, YouTube, let's say I don't have the right to my film on YouTube, I don't know if they got there. And so the hard part about our industry is we don't always get the whole we don't get to map the whole experience always. I can do my work to reach that audience. I actually don't know if they watched it on iTunes or Netflix um because I don't have that data. And so there's some tools you can put in place you can use bit.ly links you can follow up with surveys you can do some of these influencer links for tracking but unless it's on a platform like a YouTube or like us or like JOLT that allows you to see the audience afterwards it's hard to know if the work you're doing is impactful. So I can understand also why it's it is difficult to approach this audience targeting when you can do all the work and you're ultimately not certain if you actually got to that audience.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

Yeah. Because they don't share Netflix or any of the streamers they don't share with you who your audience is to my knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

I think it's in some ways you might get some reports. I hear like maybe Hulu might share some reports, Apple might do some high level stuff, but you don't know granularly and so if you're if you're doing active distribution and you're really involved in that process and you're paying for your ads and everything, you kind of do need to know if it's working or not. So and then the partnership that is just that that's a the partnership would be looking at the organizations or the individuals who are doing kind of a a trade off in a sense why what do they get in exchange for promoting the film? We used to put in order at at Ficture Motion the types of partnership. This is purely a promotional partnership where they're like you know what we're gonna post a tweet and an Instagram because it's you know this will this is something our readers and followers will find interesting and that's enough. Is there a financial partnership they're gonna promote the film and they get a portion of the ticket sales um or they get to lead a Q ⁇ A with a filmmaker uh in theaters or they can do a kit ticket giveaway in exchange for promotion or support you know what are they also getting out of it financially or or um I guess socially and then there's uh creative and strategic partners are we bringing an organization earlier to be a part of the process so that they can inform the film in some way or inform the strategy. And in that case they might get more from a revenue standpoint or just from a partnership standpoint they can ensure that the film is something they can definitely promote for their audience later on. So I think it's also important to make a kind of a hierarchy in a sense of partnerships and where different organizations and people fit into it.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

Oh that's brilliant. Thank you so much for that what are you getting from feedback are you getting from filmmakers about the distribution playback? Do they like it?

SPEAKER_02 29:37

I think so I think so it's like we've gotten some good we the the form is mostly things that are missing which we're like great that's what we have the form there for so it's helpful. People want more case studies? Overall yes it's been really really wonderfully received truly I think we were both genuinely surprised um and part of it is like well I guess if it was it made sense to us if it didn't exist we should create it made sense other people would like it to be there. But case studies that's the thing we get the question for the most and it makes complete sense. You can tell everything here is theory and information and based off experience but at the end of the day most people want to see something tangible. What does that film do to get there? And so collecting that just takes time so we hope that more people will share their case studies. And we call them either a full case study what did you do from Soup to nuts for your film or give us an example of a distribution or marketing innovation. And we got this from um Amy Hobby from Distribution Advocates as which I love as a phrase what's an innovation you did. And that could be a one one type of screening event one type of marketing initiative one type of influencer partnership that helps you know move the numbers or got some press or something because that is so tactical and helpful to share as well. If anyone's listening and you want to share something you've done, please tell us so we can share it with other filmmakers.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

So all boats right if together exactly well I noticed Ted Hope is following the playbook and talking about it in his online um what is that? His uh blog?

unknown 31:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Yes Hope for Film yeah Ted Hope is a great uh subsact I think it's called Hope for Film and I I highly recommend yes it's brilliant well he brought us some Academy award winning films you know um and before they bought him out they wanted to keep him away he Ted was uh putting his little low budget film out and uh distributing it to such a power that he was uh nominated for many Academy awards and the studios are really upset because their budgets were ten times his and they weren't getting in. So he is a very creative guy. I think that's quite a compliment Christy.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah oh yes no it's a it's a huge compliment. I'm such a fan and I've I've learned so much from him. I think you said this before of like see most people in this space are are generous. Like they want to help the industry. We want to see more great films. Um and it's when you're on the indie side you kind of have to to work together and collaborate in order to see things happen. So everyone that's in it is doing it like I feel like for the right reasons. We want to see great films, we want to support great storytellers and especially in America you have to operate within it's primarily capitalistic systems. It's a notice of capitalism, I appreciate it many days, but um you have to make money off these films. Films are expensive. So how do we continue to support great art but also in a system that requires you to to spend a lot of money and have the film make money through certain avenues. So I think it's really generous to see substacks that substacks like John Reese's eight above you mentioned Stephen Follows before distribution advocate were very generously giving their time to this industry.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

Exactly and and that's we're and we're used to that because we're doing the same thing we're working outside of our required uh delivery we're doing more than uh we signed up for but it's the way of the film industry people are very generous in this industry.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

So let me talk about engaging audiences um so what do you suggest for filmmakers um to create meaningful meanful community screenings through Kanema yay that's interesting well so like let's assume the marketing part goes well right you do the the outreach part then and people show up then it's about creating the the experience and and it's just so fun I get to sneak into so many screenings essentially that are virtual and even though we built the virtual component for screenings uh during the pandemic basically mimicking what was happening in person online we still about half of our events are in person and half of them are virtual whether they're live virtual or people can watch on their own time and those live virtual events often have just such incredible energy of people in the chat room. So when you enter the virtual cinema it opens 30 minutes before the film starts and people can start chatting. And you see that type of energy and community and often if there and one great thing to do is a the host is usually in there, the host of the event if the filmmakers or the talent can join it creates just a different energy. You feel directly connected because it's live. And so having someone kind of soak the fires of that chat and kind of keep people talking that is a great way to to create a communal experience to make people really feel present. I have seen screenings before where it's a live event uh but no one's chatting but also no one's prompting them to chat. People are always the afraid to be the first I mean YouTube if you ever look at the YouTube comment section it's different people want to be first. If it's a live event and it's people you know oftentimes people are a little nervous to go first. So have a moderator that can kind of keep that conversation going. I do a live introduction. I'm gonna speak mostly about virtual and I'll go to in person. Do a live introduction get on five minutes before two minutes before because you're watching a movie online in a shared in a synced version of it it doesn't always quite feel live. You see the text chat but when someone comes on is like I'm here's a video feed welcome you're like oh this really is a live event there are real humans around including the filmmakers or the or the host behind this event. So do a live intro and then have a conversation afterwards. We always tell people leave them wanting more you don't need to have a 90 minute post-screening conversation after a two hour film like respect people's time leave them wanting more and keep the the panelists under five people three is usually best and it allows a conversation to happen but still room for questions and then take questions from the audience. So all those that's more well I'm describing like how to create a good event that makes it like a communal experience and it's sticky with people and that in a way fosters community. And then for the in-person events it's um it's really about the the physical space and who owns that space and what that community is about. So if it is a community that just comes in and watches, if it's a faith-based community then there's a prayer beforehand um if it's a drinking community I think it really varies based off of what that space is really for and that what commun what what are the bonding agents that that community already has. Does that kind of make sense or does that answer the question? Whoa that's brilliant yes you know your stuff that's great thanks now how does uh how do you reach the international distribution and what advice would you give to filmmakers who are looking to expand their reach globally oh well I can tell you from from us from our cannabis perspective well the majority of our audience is um it's a Western English speaking it's mostly US because we're based in the US that's our network uh our our site is set in English um and while we do payments and payouts in 46 countries the the primary currency like is dollars. So I say we we come from that perspective a bit we very much want to grow every new film that comes on the platform if they have a more international audience that brings in more international audience to the platform and our our ideas I feel like I've said this a couple of times so forgive me all boats rise together. And so while we want to provide a set of tools and a way for you to build audience export that audience that works for your film when we also it's a way for us to build a wider audience of people interested in independent film and community. So I say that because as more international films come on or international audiences come on, we want to be able to serve them more international titles. So as a company that's very small and still in startup mode we have to be thoughtful about how we spend our time and energy and money. So we're we don't have the massive budget to go global. Similar to how we talk about filmmakers on the honing in on your audience there's if we try and be a global platform, we're competing with Netflix and TikTok and that is very expensive. So we have to focus on what's going to reach more immediate success and that tends to be in the US but for filmmakers trying to go global it's kind of similar to I think talk with distribution partners who are in those countries that you're trying to reach and figure out what works for your film. Why do you want to develop to distribute your film in the Philippines or why will your film do well in the Netherlands? Like where do you want that film to reach and why and then put it I would put it in priority order. If it's a primarily Spanish speaking film yes go to the Latin American market find distribution partners down there. Go to the film festivals down there to help get spread word of mouth. I think first it's audience targeting then put in order of priority the different countries and regions and territories talk to different distribution partners and distribution strategists and focus on film festivals in those countries. And of course if your film is in the language of those countries it's going to be much easier. And we always ask people when you can add as many types of subtitles as that you can in different languages. The majority of the films we get usually offer I'd say about 90% do closed captioning um in English though we'd love to get to 100% and the secondary language is typically Spanish unless the film is from another country and then they'll have a few more languages. But we don't get a lot of language options. So I think if you really want your film to be international you have to be ready to uh create um subtitles in all those different languages. Those are some some thoughts on international yes that's very important. Well tell us now how people can reach Kinema oh just go to uh Kinema it's the same spelling as Cinema except where it's a K instead of a C. No no worries. What's so funny we I always joke we we've picked the name and we're building like in the pandemic we launched in uh 2021 and it was just our team saying it and once we start talking to people on the phone we're like oh yeah it can be pronounced differently you can go to just kinema.com you can email us at films at kinema.com um you can go to support.kinema.com and there's a bunch of how-to videos and demos because some of this sounds hard to picture and it's hard to show um online in a virtual demo to show how the virtual screening room works on Zoom. So support.kinema.com kinema.com and films at kinema.com great well uh talk to us about impact driven content how do you support films with social impact and what type of films tend to resonate most with audiences on your platform I mean you you nailed it already that was uh social issue films are by far the most popular uh in documentary and because there's much overlap with documentary and social impact and I think that's because our platform is centered on community distribution um or we used to call it human distribution human-led distribution sorry wow I can't even get my words right human centered distribution when we were more focused on in-person screening um and it's still a corporate of what we do is you have a human at the center there is an individual who is booking the screening of the film we are not programming it into a theater we don't do that type of distribution a theater has an audience people come to expect movies from it we are working with people who are bringing a film into a different physical space or now online and those humans are motivated by something besides just the film. It is the community aspect bringing people together or the social issue in the film because by getting people to watch that film they'll understand an issue can change hearts of minds and policy so because of that that's why things do the best. There isn't a massive community or should say massive network of individuals that feel as passionately about hosting screenings for horror films. There are there are plenty of film clubs that do horror films but not on the same scale or with the same fervor or drive for because of the importance of the issues covered in the film. So impact driven films by far perform the best especially documentaries. And how do we support them? I'd say they actually the the tool set's the same for every type of film. We give you a promotional guy we show people how you can share your uh impact kit with the screening host that all is the same whether it's it's a horror film or a social issue film. So I think the the difference might be is that we have a lot of experience in doing social issue films. So we can chat more strategically from that perspective than we could for a a typical rom-com or horror film.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

Okay. Well now in closing tell us uh any advice you have for filmmakers particularly let's say filmmakers just starting out are those who are ready to get into distribution and they're not sure of how to do that I think if you're just starting out I think if you want to get ahead of the game or you want to put yourself in the best position to continue to create the films that you want to create there's all different types of filmmaking, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Like you can you can you know do four higher projects or work for different production companies and kind of work your way up but if you're an Artur you want to tell certain type of stories that you don't feel are going to be supported by the traditional system then make sure then treat that treat your film as a business plan. What type of film is it? How are you gonna tell that story? What is it going to cost and how do you make that money back? Because that'll give you so much freedom and autonomy so then not be dependent on a sale or sales agent selling your film for you which we love sales agents and I do think they they are an part of our system. But it gives you freedom and autonomy over your film's release if you plan ahead and raise money for the marketing and distribution of that film and make a p a plan for reimbursing your investors or go get money that you don't need to reimburse. You know get money from foundations or raise money that you don't have to return. So I think really approach your film like it's a startup business and how you're gonna make money without needing as many outside players.

SPEAKER_04 43:55

That's exactly right. You're going to have to do most of it yourself and you might as realize that going in or um I recommend that filmmakers find um p friends or people in film school who would love to graduate with a credit in a documentary or in a feature and go on as the social networker um and do some d um work for them. Work three hours a week and promote it on social networks and get a credit in the film because three hours a week works out to what w w is normally a one month job. And so it's worth it for both parties. There's always somebody that will help you.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

I think that's actually if it's like three hours I think it's always hard to I like many industries, like the filmmaking phase is is biased for those who don't ha who have maybe have family funding or um trust funds or something to help support them or something to fall back on. So donating and volunteering and doing free internships it sometimes favors those who have the ability um and the fortune to do so. And so I think that's finding that right balance too can you dedicate a small amount of time to get that credit knowing that you also probably still have to work or make money. So tough to do the the free labor aspect of it. But I think it's true I always look at IMDB credit. Like I look at if you're on portrait, I look at your projects on portrait. So yes the more credit you can get I think it will absolutely help raise a profile. And look for community. You need community support. Mafia is an amazing support network for for women and non-binary people in film. Uh Portrait is a great app. It's like LinkedIn for filmmakers Hustle Up is helping people find jobs um I think mostly below the line might be above the line too. They're great communities uh to be a part of I recommend doing that as well.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

Oh great thank you very much for mentioning them. Yes I've sent a lot of people to um Brown dogs. They are brilliant. Um yeah they really are and they're if you want to hire someone that's a great place to go and the other is them fatals. They have a wonderful group of filmmakers too for features. Oh you're right yes a hundred percent well thank you this has been so enlightening so forward thinking and creative and we really appreciate you and the work you're doing oh thank you so much so fun to talk with you and thank you for hosting the show and making this information so accessible for everyone thank you thank you okay you're so welcome and Claire and I'll check back with you in a year and see what's what's new and where you're going. All right so cool.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Thanks Claire thanks Carol.

SPEAKER_04 46:33

Thanks many blessings.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

All right be well everyone now in its second edition Carol Dean's popular book The Art of Film Funding has 12 new chapters to cover all areas of film financing and how to avoid expensive pitfalls. Learn how to start with an idea and end with a trailer. How to make an ask for money create your story structure and your trailer legal advice fair use successful crowdfunding how to ask for music rights and what insurance you can't shoot without. Available on Amazon under Carol Dean and at FromTheheartproductions.com I want to remind our listeners that David Raiklan is a brilliant and talented award-winning musician who scores films and can compose music for a trio or for a full orchestra David is a very good friend to the independent filmmaker and comes highly recommended by From the Heart Production. If you need music to help tell your story please contact him at davidrakeln.com that's davidraikl.com and Carol and I want to thank you for tuning in to the Art of Film Funding. Please visit our website at From the Heartproductions.com You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

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