The Art of Film Funding
Discover the secrets to funding and creating successful indie films with The Art of Film Funding Podcast. Join Carole Dean, President of From the Heart Productions and author of The Art of Film Funding, and Heather Lenz, director of the award-winning documentary Kusama-Infinity, as they chat with top film industry pros. Get practical insider tips on crowdfunding, pitching, saving on budgets, marketing, hybrid distribution, and the latest in A.I. filmmaking. Whether you’re funding your first project or navigating new trends, this podcast has everything you need to succeed. Subscribe and let’s get your film funded!
The Art of Film Funding
How Using Largo.ai Program Can Increase Your Film Funding Opportunities
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SPEAKER_05Hi and welcome to the Art of Film Funding. I'm your co-host, Claire Papan, along with Carol Dean, author of the best-selling book, The Art of Film Funding. Carol is also the founder and president of From the Heart Productions and the host of this show. Largo is a Swiss company and is the creator of Largo.ai, providing data assisted intelligence to the audiovisual industry. Largo is able to analyze a film as early as the script phase and also provide insights at post-production and distribution stages by analyzing first video versions of the movie. Today, hundreds of producers from Europe and North America use Largo technologies during the production process. It was selected by Flush as one of 15 finalist startups among 1,500 startups all around the world. Our guest, Celine Udrio, is the chief operating officer of Largo. She has an MBA in project development and finance and is working on the management of operations and investment strategy. One thing that Celine particularly loves is the contact with Largo's customers and to see the evolution of their projects. And Carol, this is really an exciting interview to have today. This information for independent filmmakers. It's pretty exciting, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yes, Claire, it's great. It's all new stuff to us and it's advancing our industry. So thank you, Celine, for joining us.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you very much, Claire and Carol, and good morning, America. I'm very happy to be here today from Switzerland to discuss about the integration of AI in independent filmmaking.
SPEAKER_03Isn't this wonderful? Uh we love this. So uh we were watching the Cannes Vin Film Festival from our home in Venture, California, and we specifically had planned to see the pitching pitching sessions. So when we turned them on, we noticed that your company Largo AI had information behind the filmmakers who were pitching. Uh the readings were on the wall to the side of the filmmaker, and you could see the potential income of the project and other very important pieces of information. It was really impressive to listen to someone pitch their film when you had an AI Largo reading sitting there saying there was a 1500% return possibility. This enhanced the filmmaker's pitch considerably. So uh Claire and I want to learn what Largo AI does and how it benefits independent filmmakers. So tell us how it was born.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm very happy to hear that you enjoyed the pitching session that we had in Cannes this year. Yeah, actually, I really think this is a good opportunity for our clients to pitch their projects analyzed by AI. And we are doing this pitching session now with a shark tank format, meaning that the producers have four minutes to pitch, then our team presents the AI results to the audience, and then the audience vote for the project. And this format allows some of our producers to close fast deals with investors. And now we provide this exclusive pitching event during major film markets such as Cannes, European film markets, and next one being uh American film market in November. So now if I have to answer your question about the birth of Largo, so basically, Largo AI was born after identifying a problem in the film market. So, as you know, uh the development of a movie takes a long process that includes many steps such as scriptwriting, casting, fundraising, post-production, distribution, etc. And there are many important decisions that are taken during this whole process, but by using God feeling. While if we consider innovative platforms such as Netflix or Amazon, they are using data-assisted intelligence during the decision-making process. And their approach helps them to disrupt the industry. However, the technology and data of these platforms are not available for the rest of the industry. So producers, distributors, studios, and agencies. And this has been the market opportunity for Largo to provide such technologies as a third-party provider to other players. And for this goal, we develop Largo AI as a SAS platform where filmmakers and distributors can instantly analyze their movies with screenplays or video versions to get insights on the content, casting, potential audience, and financial outcome of the film at pre-production, post-production, and distribution stage.
SPEAKER_03Wow. So let me get really straight on this. So you say that while innovative platforms like Netflix and Amazon, they're using data-assisted intelligence during their decision-making process. So do you know what any of those are, how they're deciding what to take and what not to take?
SPEAKER_02Well, here is the big question. So, yes, in uh in other words, big players like like them have access to a huge amount of data to analyze their movies, but they don't share it with the rest of the industry. So it is very hard to tell exactly how their system works, which makes it very hard for independent producers to compete against these giants.
SPEAKER_03Okay, and so now they're choosing their films through this data-assisted intelligence, and we have no idea what these settings are. So independent filmmakers are just not sure exactly what they're accepting in today's world, right?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think what we can retain here is that uh these big players are using very innovative tools which help them to perform better and disrupt the market. This is why uh Largo AI was first created to give also this opportunity to independent producers to use innovative tools like AI in the development of their project to have more chances to be successful and to get funding.
SPEAKER_03So you're selling this in the independent market, right? I'm sorry. You're selling this to the independent filmmaker market. That would be uh the individuals, producers are contacting you, and production companies are contacting you to buy the product.
SPEAKER_02Yes, exactly. So for now I would say that 90% of our clients are independent producers, that we are now trying to bring more distributors into the use of AI. And uh also why not in the future to target more uh uh bigger studios, that will be an objective as well, of course.
SPEAKER_03Right, meet other major studios to get them involved. I'm sure you won't have a problem with that. Uh so let's take uh a film that maybe you've mapped and use that to understand the benefits. So let's uh I'd like you to give us an overview of what the Largo AI platform does. And you could start with the genre mapping of a script.
SPEAKER_02Yes, of course. So the NAI analysis of a project gives many insights that can be used differently depending on the producer's objective. So, according to our client's feedback, they particularly like the financial forecast, character analysis, and casting propositions, as well as playing with comparable film analysis in our creative lab. And they will also get insights about age suitability and demographics and genre mapping. So, to answer your question about genre mapping, um, this gives a good idea to the producers about the type of movie they are developing. So maybe if we take an example to visualize a bit better. So we analyzed the movie Magnolia on our platform, the American drama with Tom Cruise by Kin 1999. Maybe it reminds you some memories. And from the genre analysis, we can see this is a fast-paced movie with a lot of peaks and valleys with the genre evolution along the script. And then we compare this analysis to the movie Two Days, One Night with Marion Cotillard. And we could clearly see the by the flat genre evolution that is this slow-paced movie, which is typical from uh art house movies. And from this, the producers get a very good idea uh of the project, uh, they can have a very good overview. So let's imagine they want to develop a comedy movie, but there's no comedy that has been detected in the script. So maybe they should uh make some adjustments uh on the script. And this is one of the real advantages of the platform, I guess. If you add your project already at pre-production stage, then you can adapt it very early because once produced, of course, you can adapt the distribution strategy, but it can be too late to change other parameters.
SPEAKER_03Right. If you think you have a comedy, it'll tell you if it you have a comedy or what you do have. And particularly if you had an art house movie, you could recognize that. That's totally a different audience.
SPEAKER_02Yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so now is Largo AI available to filmmakers and what is the approximate cost?
SPEAKER_02Yes, of course, so Larry AI is available to filmmakers with no condition on the production budget, neither on production stage. Um so the projects can range from pre-production to post-production and also from low to high budget movies. So there's really no restriction on that. And regarding the price, um, so we know that using AI can be an important cost for some independent producers who are still hesitant about AI, some of them can be even afraid of AI. So even though it accelerates uh the funding process, it can be a huge expense. So for that reason, we created two years ago our 100 producers program, and the objective of this program is to give the possibility to 100 producers each year to try AI for the first time during a six-month program at a very low price. So, thanks to supporting institutions and Largo, the producers will pay only 15% of the cost of the program, which amounts to uh uh about$900 for the six months of usage. And then they will get training by our team to know how to best use the platform, and they will also have opportunities to apply to our pitching events as well.
SPEAKER_03And they and your pitching events. So just like you had in Cannes, you'll have pitching events around the world that they can apply to.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So we did that uh format uh in Cannes, as you as as you saw. Then we have a Berlinaz, a European film market. We have our own uh film festival in Switzerland called USHI Film Award, and uh very soon the American Film Market in Santa Monica in November.
SPEAKER_03Wonderful. Okay. Well, this is a wonderful discount for filmmakers, and they can truly get on there and work on it for six months. That should give them all the usage that they need. Uh so this is very considerate of you. And how do they get into the program? Who do they contact?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so yeah, I think this is a really great way to become familiar with AI and to decide if they want to continue to use it or not. Uh, just to give you a number, like last year, 75% of the producers in this program continue to use the tool after the program. So, well, I guess they could understand the value of it for the project. And to reach them, like we normally do email campaigns to promote uh the 100 producers program. But the best way, uh if in in the audience there's an interested producers, uh the best way is to go on the Largo AI website to either ask for a demo or we also have an online chat on our website for any questions, or you can just uh drop an email at info.largo.ai.
SPEAKER_03All right. That is your um website, largo.ai. Exactly.ai. All right. All right. Well, let's uh let's play around with the idea here. Let's pretend that uh we've got the program and a filmmaker puts in the budget for their film. Now, does Largo analyze the budget? What happens?
SPEAKER_02So at the beginning, when the producer enters the project, he has to manually enter some parameters. So the producer enters the production budget for his project in the platform, but he can really play with that to understand the impact of it. So we had some cases where uh with a reduced budget, the return on investment was actually better. So the advantage uh with our platform is that the producers can try really many different scenarios. Um let's imagine he has put a 250k production budget, and then he ran an analysis, and for a second try, he put a 400,000 uh budget to see really the financial uh forecast impact. And this is really one of the advantages, like to really try and understand that it's not because you have a big budget that the return on investment will be uh necessarily better.
SPEAKER_03Okay, well, you know, most producers have a bare bones budget and a kitchen sink budget where the kitchen sink has everything possible, and usually they're gonna go to a budget just above the bare bones. Um so I can understand this would give them an opportunity to play around with these various budgets to see what the return on investment would be for them, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I think that's that's really a good a good tool also to understand this.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so next you say that uh the logo AI gives you age, suitability, mapping of a script or a video uh that is beneficial to the filmmaker. So explain what that means.
SPEAKER_02Yes, so so when you produce a movie, of course, I think it is important to understand what type of person is most likely to enjoy it. Uh so the age suitability and demographic information will really help the producer to target the right audience to increase the chances of success.
SPEAKER_03So the program tells you what the ages are of your intended audience, right?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So it is uh also dynamic. So it tells along the script um if it's more for children, teenagers, or adults. And with that we can really see the peaks uh and values along the script. Like let's imagine uh it's for children, but in one uh place of the script there's an an audience targeted which is adults. And maybe it was not uh the objective, so um we can see here that we could eventually modify the script.
SPEAKER_03Well, does it give you uh in your demographics anything about the income of the people that would be watching or their education? Sometimes those are part of demographics.
SPEAKER_02So for now, the demographics um mainly tells about um the if it's a woman or a man. Um, but that's actually a good idea. Well why not uh developing that for the future to have uh more information about income and education? That's definitely something we can we can consider to work on.
SPEAKER_03Okay, great. Okay, well, this is really helpful for the producer to be able to target the marketing and identify their audience early. So that's a great benefit. Um so what are some of the audience demographics that you've seen on pictures?
SPEAKER_02Um so if I take one example, um, that was a bit funny because uh we worked once with a a company and they wanted to produce a new a movie for children, right? And when analyzing their scripts on the platform, we realized that there were many scenes that were actually not adapted for children. And us as an adult eye, we don't really understand this sometimes. We say, no, it's okay, it will shoot for children, but they uh the AI um detected some violent part, or if there are some um some sex scenes at some point, well it it's very easy to to see that on the platform and uh they had to adapt a bit their script not to get restriction.
SPEAKER_03Oh, very good. That's great. That's great. Um and well I I really want to know about the comparable films analysis because um it's uh this is a very time consuming problem for uh producers. They have to get online and search and find films that have a similar genre and a similar budget. And that uh uh takes a lot of time. Some of these numbers are hard to get. So um I'd like to know what are your sources for these uh for the films that you're using in the comparable analysis? Do they include low budget films like maybe down to 500,000 budgets?
SPEAKER_02Yes, definitely. Um so we have a well-trained model uh which has analyzed more than 65,000 movies, uh analyzed from very low budget to very high budget. So we don't make any classification on that. We really take everything that has been produced, both from public data and from our own streaming platform called Sophie TV. So from this we can get really a lot, a lot of information. And indeed, as as you mentioned, I think it's really saving a lot of time to the producers to compare the similar films, the similar genre, the similar budgets, etc.
SPEAKER_03Right. And your uh streaming platform is sofy.tv, right? Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Sofy.tv. And it's mainly uh short film uh on on demand.
SPEAKER_03Oh great, short films on demand. Oh, we really need that. Good. Short films on demand. Okay, so finding comparable films is w is sometimes one of the hardest things for the producer to do. So this is a major benefit. And what do the indie filmmakers who are using this, what do they say about it? Are they happy with the films you have listed?
SPEAKER_02Yes, so actually we are constantly um improving the uh the these data with the latest release movies. So we are a tech team which is very well uh working a lot. And um what producers like with that is, of course, as you mentioned, they can they can find um uh on online the similar movies. They could find everything, but it takes so much time that they have all the information grouped at one place one place, sorry, and by just clicking on a button. So I think it's really uh what they like. So it's not necessarily they don't necessarily learn something new here, but they gain uh really a lot of time.
SPEAKER_03Yes, they do. Now when I was watching You at Cannes, I saw uh that you had a script analysis because you had a visual. I've never seen anything like it. You had a visual of the script analysis with a bunch of lines swirling around. Uh does Largo AI make any suggestion about the script?
SPEAKER_02So that's a very good question, actually. That's uh many people wonder that uh one thing that uh we really don't want to is to destroy the the the creativity of of producers. So we will never we we don't want AI to write a script at the place of of a producer. But of course, when a producer runs an analysis from a script, so the script or the video is analyzed, they they get insights, and then we have our team, uh our account managers, who can give any uh suggestions about the script. So, hey, uh have you tried this, or hey, have you tried that and try to run a new analysis? Why don't you change this? Why don't you try this uh country of release? So it's still the human touch uh which gives suggestions about the script and not uh a uh a robot.
SPEAKER_03Great. Okay. So uh and it gives you financial forecasts and box office predictions. So uh do you have any confirmation from films you work with who reached your financial predictions?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's good that you mentioned that because we recently made a uh a case study about this to really understand the accuracy of our platform. And from all movies analyzed, according to the the financial prediction, we reached more than 80% accuracy in most of its tools, which is way superior than than any traditional method. So we were very happy with that.
SPEAKER_03Wow, that is great. So you say that Largo gives you financial forecast and box office predictions. So these are two different figures. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02So yeah, to give you a better idea, um we can have two options either box office predictions or a streaming forecast. And but in if we take uh box office predictions, there will be three different graphs. So first graph will be the first weekend of box office, domestic, and then uh we have worldwide prediction, and we have general um domestic box office prediction as well. So this the producer the producer can change. For instance, uh, if he wants to release the movie in Germany, he runs the first analysis and he gets financial forecast or box office prediction for Germany. Then the second analysis, he wants to release it in the US, and then he can compare, which was uh the best idea. And for streaming forecasts, this is calculated in uh number of households as well.
SPEAKER_03It's it's uh number of what households? Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_02Sorry for my accent, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay. All right, so um you say that the platform was more than 80% accurate and all the information stored within it, right? That's pretty good, I guess. I I'm not familiar with AI. Is that a good number?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I guess if we consider traditional methods, uh it's very hard to predict uh also at the beginning, it's as we mentioned, it's really gut-feeling. And to have a tool that is able to to give some numbers, this really increases also the the potential of the team to get funded. So the producers can take all these figures that on which he has worked to improve and go in front of an investor or a distributor and say, look, uh, I have these figures who are confirmed at more than 80% uh currency. So I think it really gives an advantage already uh or more credibility to the producers.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it gives more credibility to their pitch. You're absolutely right. Um so what can I say to my potential investors or donors? Uh what do you think is the best way to describe the results from Largo AI?
SPEAKER_02Well, it will be very straightforward here. So one thing to understand first is that it's not a tool for creating miracles. I mean, some of the some of the clients think that the AI will just do all the work, but it doesn't work with 100% accuracy, so it makes mix mistakes as well. But as I mentioned before, with its 80% accuracy, it becomes very trustworthy. And another thing to know here is that overall around 5% of independent projects go to production, but with a largo platform, the number increased to 10%. So the benefits to potential investors here is that they can have a fast PDF overview of the project and can really measure the risks they are taking.
SPEAKER_03Well, this is a big statement that indie filmmakers are increasing their chances of funding from five to ten percent. That's doubling your chance. That's fabulous.
SPEAKER_02Yes, exactly. So it's hard to tell a right number, but definitely it's increased the chance of funding. Also with this pitching event that that we provide. Uh, we have very nice cases where producers could close uh a deal with uh with a financier.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I think that a lot of them would be interested in the pitching event. Uh and you're saying that is all outlined on uh largo.ai website.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Largo.ai website.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Um so you say that another benefit is character analysis and actor, actress. Uh so give me an example of this, how you would uh benefit from your uh changing or running a different actress, let's say, in uh in a role and finding the one that brings you the most profit. Is that how it works?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think there's two things here. So um this is a part that our clients like a lot uh a lot. For each character, there will be a casting proposition with a match rate percentage. And this percentage is really based on the actor or actress past performance. And of course, it takes into consideration the budget of the project to propose a casting. Um yeah, as an example, if Tom Cruise is proposed for a character at 95% match rate, while Brad Pitt is proposed at 60%, it doesn't mean that Brad Pitt won't be a good pitch, but just that the producer is taking a higher risk by choosing him since he hasn't done similar things in the past. So it's really how they are able to take a risk and they can also see uh the the financial forecast how they are increasing or decreasing as well.
SPEAKER_03So a producer can just keep in putting names to find the right ones for the part. Uh that makes sense. Uh and then how about indie films in the United States who want to sell to Europe? Uh they have to pay close attention to the actors because they want sometimes they want actors who will bring in audiences outside of the United States. Can Largo AI tell us this?
SPEAKER_02Yes, of course, so there are many parameters that they can they can change. So according to their release country, then there are some proposed actors that are most likely to play in Spain, for instance. They can also put the the language of the characters they they want to have. Um if they are more looking for an Asian Asian type or European type. And I think this is also a great tool to give more equal chance to to actor and actress, since it's kind of uh blind in terms of racism, etc. So I think it's it's really great.
SPEAKER_03I would think so. That's wonderful. Uh okay, so my job today is to outline the cost and the benefits for independent filmmakers. So let's recap the benefits, all right?
SPEAKER_02Sure. So if I have to summarize quickly the benefits of Largo AI for independent producers, I would say that it accelerates filmmaking. It gives a better understanding of the audience, an understanding of the impact of production and PA budget. It also optimizes uh return on investment and it's easier to get funding. Um we also have, as mentioned, our exclusive pitching events during major field markets to accelerate the deals with investors and distributors.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so it gives you the age, the demographics of the audience. It allows you to look at the return on investment with several budgets, it helps you in casting to find the most profitable actors for your investment return. Uh, it increases your potential for funding as investors like to see the report. They want to see that somebody else agrees with what you're saying. Uh, and it gives you a lot of prior films to use for comparable for comparables, uh, meaning that you don't have to spend time searching the internet. So it can be a great time saver, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think your resume is very well. It's really a time saver uh and it really accelerates filmmaking, definitely.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so uh tell us again about the 100 producers program, because I think our filmmakers will love that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sure. So the first edition of this 100 producers program was in 2020 with actually 20 producers, so it was called the 20 Producers Program. And we saw there um that there was a lot of interest, so we decided to do a second edition in 2021 with 100 producers, and again a third edition this year with 100 producers. So this program is really dedicated to producers willing to try AI for the first time. So they will use the platform for six months by paying only 15% of the cost, which represents$900. And they will get training by our team on how to use the platform. Uh and by the way, uh we launch very soon the same kind of program, but for distributors this time.
SPEAKER_03Oh, this would be fun. So tell us what the uh program for distributors will tell them.
SPEAKER_02So, as for producers, the program uh provides a six-month proof of proof of concept duration for a hundred distributors to apply artificial intelligence with uh 85 compensation on the regular cost. And with this program, so distributors will learn how to apply AI during the distribution decisions related to the acquisitions of new fields and distribution strategy of acquired fields. They will also apply the tools on their ongoing projects to accelerate the decision-making process for the acquisition and also access to Largo AI Market, which is uh a new feature that we will be launching very soon. And there they will have an exclusive chance to see hundreds of productions with the detailed AI results looking for distribution.
SPEAKER_03Wow, that'll be great. That that could increase their money and the filmmakers' money too. That's wonderful news. Um, do you have any new features that will be released soon?
SPEAKER_02Yes, so as I I mentioned uh previously, we will have this uh Largo AI market launching before the end of the year. And so this is to resume, uh, this is an AI supported marketplace where distributors and financers can meet the projects that have been analyzed on Largo AI by the producers. And the objective of this is to really to facilitate the contact uh between them to fast to accelerate the deal.
SPEAKER_03So those people on your 100 uh film list, your uh independent films, they could fly to uh wherever your um market is. Will it be in Switzerland?
SPEAKER_02So this market will be online. So since our Yes, exactly. Sorry, it was maybe not clear as I as I say this. Um so since our clientele is mainly based in Europe and US, uh there will be many projects from clients around the world, and they can access that online. So there's no restriction of traveling, etc. So this is why it will really open uh these projects to uh to build a large community.
SPEAKER_03My gosh, it certainly will, particularly if an investor goes in there, finds a film invest and is happy, he'll be back there all the time. That could be great.
SPEAKER_02And by the way, this is actually an exclusive information because we haven't even uh said that to any of uh our clients or are in the news, so you are the first one to know.
SPEAKER_03Oh, how wonderful! We thank you very much, Celine. That's great. So um just let us know one more time how that uh our audience can reach you.
SPEAKER_02So if you want to reach Largo, you can find us either on www.largo.ai or we have uh LinkedIn as well, or by email at info at largo.ai. So it will it will be really a pleasure to give you a demo uh to show you our platform.
SPEAKER_03Well, thank you so much, Claire. What a great opportunity. We've learned so much today. We really thank you, Celine.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Well, thank you very much.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and we want to have you back in another six or eight months and let's find out what's happening. You should have exploded by then. Be online with all of these connectors going. That'll be wonderful for the independent film market.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, let's see. We uh it will be a pleasure to give you an update in six months.
SPEAKER_03Okay, that sounds great. Thank you very much, Celine.
SPEAKER_02Thank you very much, and have a great day. Bye.
SPEAKER_03Okay, you too. Bye.
SPEAKER_02Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_03All right, thank you. Be well clear.
SPEAKER_05Oh, you're welcome. Bye. Now, in its second edition, Carol Dean's popular book, The Art of Film Funding, has 12 new chapters to cover all areas of film financing and how to avoid expensive pitfalls. Learn how to start with an idea and end with a trailer, how to make an ask for money, create your story structure and your trailer, legal advice, fair use, successful crowdfunding, how to ask for music rights, and what insurance you can't shoot without. Available on Amazon under Carol Dean and at FromTheHeartProductions.com. I want to remind our listeners that David Rakelin is a brilliant and talented award-winning musician who scores films and can compose music for a trio or for a full orchestra. David is a very good friend to the independent filmmaker and comes highly recommended by From the Heart Productions. If you need music to help tell your story, please contact him at davidrakeln.com. That's davidraikl.com. And Carol and I want to thank you for tuning in to the Art of Film Funding. Please visit our website at FromTheHeart Productions.com. You can also find us on Facebook and Twitter. Good luck with your films, everyone!
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