The Art of Film Funding
Discover the secrets to funding and creating successful indie films with The Art of Film Funding Podcast. Join Carole Dean, President of From the Heart Productions and author of The Art of Film Funding, and Heather Lenz, director of the award-winning documentary Kusama-Infinity, as they chat with top film industry pros. Get practical insider tips on crowdfunding, pitching, saving on budgets, marketing, hybrid distribution, and the latest in A.I. filmmaking. Whether you’re funding your first project or navigating new trends, this podcast has everything you need to succeed. Subscribe and let’s get your film funded!
The Art of Film Funding
How to Build an Audience and Raising Money for Your Film
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SPEAKER_03Hi and welcome to the Art of Film Funding. I'm your co-host, Claire Papin. Along with Carol Dean, author of the best-selling book, The Art of Film Funding. Carol is also the founder and president of From the Heart Productions and the host of this show. Gerald Jagoda guides film projects and their social media presence from inception through crowdfunding to premiere. Her company, Social Media Darlings, has successfully built internet footprints for a diverse range of clients from films and production to authors, TV shows, and restaurants. Her recent projects include the award-winning Raise Hell, The Life and Times of Molly Ivons, The Netflix Original, Documentary Feminist, What Were They Thinking? The Manhattan Transfer Story in production, and also in production, Julia Vinograd between Spirit and Stone. Gerald also teaches crowdfunding and social media at the Academy of Art University in San Francisco. And Carol, Rais Hell won your Roy Dean Film Grant, right?
SPEAKER_04Yes, it did, Claire. And it seems that Gerald and I have been working with many of the same clients over these years. And we sincerely thank you, Gerald, for joining us today.
SPEAKER_01Oh, gosh, Carol, thank you for having me. It's always an honor to be with you, and I appreciate all of your input all over the years. It's been fabulous.
SPEAKER_04Oh, great. We really like to hear that. Claire and I work hard to bring information to filmmakers. So today we want to know how to find and attach audiences to films. So we were hoping that you would share two of your films. This is such a specialized area that I I thought maybe let's start with the Molly Ivins film and tell us how you helped them.
SPEAKER_01Well, Molly Ivans was a very, very special film, and I was very lucky to have gotten in at the very beginning before there was anything at all. There was nothing. There was no social media, there was no website, there wasn't anything. So I was able to build it from scratch, and uh that's the best way to do it because you go in and first you build the community, and after you build the community, then you're able to launch a crowd front fund from that community, and that's exactly what we were able to do. And uh luckily um for us, Molly had a following, and we were able to tap into that community, and and they responded to the crowd fund, and we raised over $100,000 through Kit. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, which was a fabulous fabulous, it was a fabulous feat. It really was. And it went on afterwards. They still kept donating and took us right through we to Sundance and we won the Audience Award at South by Southwest and went on to be picked up by Magnolia Films. Oh Magnolia was it was a fabulous experience. It it it couldn't it doesn't get better than that. That is what you dream of with a documentary. Because you know how hard it is for documentaries to get funded, let alone you know, make it to uh distribution. Uh uh make it to Sundance and Distribution.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. Oh, that's wonderful. Well, let's let's back up and and tell us, just give us some tips on uh how do you build the community, because you mentioned that they are they had a following. People in Texas loved Molly Ivans. It was one of those things that we don't care if she mentions us, just get our name right, because just to get your name in her uh column wasn't worth a publicity.
SPEAKER_01Right. Right? So we re we reached out to a lot of the uh people that that she loved and got them to follow us and them to come on board and and uh use their content to attract their people to starters. So it's all about the target audience. We knew who her people were, we knew the people that loved her, and that's where we went we concentrated on. We we targeted them with Facebook ads, we targeted them uh, you know, where they live, and and they came. They came following us, and it was amazing, and they shared with each other if that's the key. If you can get somebody to share it, they share it with them and so on and so on and so on. That's how it works. Um, you know, the Facebook page is well over thirty thousand followers right now. It's it's still growing. And uh it's yes, it doesn't stop, it it continues on to this day.
SPEAKER_04That is incredible, that's huge. Um, so that's where um where it started. You uh went back to her basic uh friends and people who supported her. But now how you get people to share it is the key thing, isn't it? Because that's when it expands exponentially.
SPEAKER_01Right. And that's done through all of the posting, the online posting and and things like that. And uh and and I, you know, I we post it on Facebook, we post it on Twitter, we post it on Instagram, we post it all across all of all of the uh platforms. And different platforms had different groups and that's why you that's why I always tell people to go, Oh, I don't do Twitter. I go, Well, you should do Twitter, because it's a different uh group of people on Twitter that you're missing out on if you don't attack Twitter as well as Facebook and Instagram. And each platform gives you some other group, and that's why it's really important to concentrate on each of them.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Well, do you offer anything to get people to share?
SPEAKER_01You know what? Every time we post something for Molly, and this is not the same with everybody, but everybody shared everything. Because, you know, we would share articles of Molly's from a long time ago. You know, the thing about Molly is she's still so relevant. Anything that she wrote back in 2008 is still relevant today because it's still happening in politics today. So people in politics love to go back and ha rehash anything, you know that. So so anything we posted about politics today, or we threw back and pulled, you know, we could go back and pull an article, that's what we did. And people went nuts over it. Nuts over it, and so of course they shared it, and that's how it blew up. Exactly how it blew up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you gave them something to share it. Now there's uh a great book called Contagious by Jonah Berger, and he says that what happens is that is called social currency. When somebody says something that's fun and they share it, it's uh their currency that people are saying, Oh, look how smart you are. You knew that and you shared that. And uh so that's what's going on. That's the essence of it all, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's the that's the golden ticket if you can get to that point. That's what you we strive for in my business. That's what I'm looking for. Right. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Well, so they did they only have one uh campaign, that a hundred thousand campaigns?
SPEAKER_01We we we did. We only did that one. We talked about going back for finishing funds, but they were lucky enough actually through because the social media was going through strong and and the uh festival was kicked in, we were able to pick up other uh investors along the way. That doesn't always happen. But there are times when we do go back, you know, after a successful campaign like that, it is not unusual to go back for a second crowd fund and ask for finishing funds. And it and the and your people, if they're you know, dedicated to you, will come back and give you more money. You know, your batteries, your original battlers. Yes, they absolutely are absolutely right. Yeah, people need to know that. Yes. Yes, and they will support you not only through another crowd fund, these people are still there. They supported us through the festivals. They tweeted and posted um, you know, about the festivals, about distribution, about when the DVD got released. These are your your fans and your community for life. They don't go away if you keep nurturing them. If you keep nurturing them? Yes, you have to keep engaging them, you have to keep talking to them, you have to keep posting for them. You have to keep giving them you know content. You have to keep them still in the loop and make them still feel like they're part of the community and still keep the community going.
SPEAKER_04Content. Keep giving them content. That's the key. And it's content about your film, the subject of your film or people in your film, right?
SPEAKER_01It it's subject about anything to do with politics that leads us back to Molly Ivan. Like, for example, when everything was going on in Texas, the same thing happened in Texas back in early in in you know, in 2010. The same thing happened with the legislature there. It happens in cyclic it's cyclical, it happens over and over again. They walked out of in Texas years ago, like just like they just did. So we're able to have that discussion again and show an article from then. It's cyclical, it just happens over and over again.
SPEAKER_04Wow, that's terrific. That's really good. Well, now did you look for online organizations that uh around her? How did you find them?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, you you always go looking for organizations that complement the client and complement the project. We were beyond lucky because we picked up the ACLU because Molly's part of part of Molly's estate went to the ACLU. And uh that's a huge organization. I mean, they even threw us our opening night party at Sundance. And uh also the Texas Observer, which where she worked for Miss, she was the editor, um, gave us uh, for example, for a reward, they gave us a year newsletter for anybody, you know, who purchased that reward. Um, you know, so we would we look for people who had a d an attachment to Molly, and many of them came forward and many of them attached themselves to us. You look for somebody who has a stake in what you're doing.
SPEAKER_04That's how you find someone who has a stake in what you're doing, and it can benefit them too, right? Exactly. That's what a po a partnership is. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01They get something and we get something.
SPEAKER_04Right. That that I mean, how do you uh convince them? I I'm sure you have to co-call to get 'em uh in the first place, but a lot of this is sort of uh uh you know, you're playing on the cum line like uh craps in Vegas. You think you have this film going to Sundance, but you you have to pitch it like you know you do to get them on board, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, they were on board before Sundance, they were on board for the crowdfund, which is where you want them on board for because you want their names in it for the crowdfund and we were lucky enough to do that. And you you know, you reach out with, you know, the right letter, the right letter inviting them to partner with you. Uh, you know, it th there's tons of different ways to approach it. Um it's not really a cold call. You have to find somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody to get you in the door. That's the best way to do it. Um code calling is difficult in this situation. Um you you there's always somebody who knows somebody, Carol, you know that. Well, uh, we go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah. They say, you know, you're only six person removed from anyone you want to reach. I think in the film industry it's three people removed.
SPEAKER_01And we have to realize we're small and tight, don't you think? Oh my god, yes. Oh my god, yes. It's it's scary how close we are. In the documentary world especially, I find that.
SPEAKER_04In the documentary world, absolutely right. Yes, yeah, definitely. So uh sometimes people say, Well, how do I f get to uh get to so and so? Uh ask everybody you know before you hang up the phone, have a little note on your phone says, Do you know blah blah? Or d and like if you're trying to get into HBO, whoever's running the show now, uh how how do I get to her? Somebody knows. Everybody you talk to is it doesn't hurt to ask.
SPEAKER_01I mean That's it.
SPEAKER_04That's what works. Well um so you like uh Kickstarter? Is that your favorite?
SPEAKER_01I you know, I have liked Kickstarter. I I tend to find their their uh platform less quirky than some of the others, and I'm a creature of habit and I know it so well that that tends to work for me. There's some other, as you know Carol, there's some other up and coming situations that may, you know, challenge Kickstarter just a bit, you know. Like this film that we're that you and I are currently connected to. Uh, you know, this show and tell platform I'm very excited about. Um that people should take a look at showandel uh.film. It's just a new a new way to look at fundraising and uh I'm very excited about it.
SPEAKER_04Yes, me too, because it was built by a successful filmmaker, uh Keith Front. You know, he took a very narrow, cut two very narrow market films and made an exceptional amount of money on these documentaries with with small niche audiences. So he built something that he would like to have, which is was sort of like Vimeo, but the only thing similar to that is the um quality of the platform, but then he built it so that he could educate you uh how to market your film, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes, classes are amazing, and it it also is a platform that that hosts virtual events that that just got born out of um the pandemic and because there was nowhere to to show your film and it turns into being something as an incredible, incredible vehicle to have your film even before it's finished reach tons and tons of people. And it it's just it it's I think it's the future, Carol. I really I really think there's a lot there. I think it's only the beginning of what he's doing with it, to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_04I do too. I see that as the way of the future. When you stop and think about getting people to across town, just take just take one city, LA. You know, it's a forty minute drive for most people to get to a screening room. And uh and the weather, and if it rains, forget it, they're not going out and uh in the house for two years.
SPEAKER_01Well, none of us is in the house for two years.
SPEAKER_04Now we don't even we're afraid to go. So this is the perfect thing at the perfect time. He really uh came up with a wonderful idea, but he uh developed it w as a filmmaker making something for filmmakers. It couldn't be better in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. So all right, so let's um now when you take over a program, then do you do all of the online posting for people? Do you take that over?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yes, I do. I take it over and um or I start it and I take it over and I carry it on through um through the festivals and everything. The what I'm really not finished until what happens is when the distributor comes on, I usually get a reprieve because they usually take it over, which is fine with me. And I you know, I turn all my information over to them and they take it over through distribution and then I get it back when they're done. And and and it's really quite a relief at that point to not have to deal with it because they you know, they put it into their publicity machine and it goes, you know, bonkers. Um but yes, I at the very beginning it's it's it's me. You know, I was the voice of Molly Ivans for a while there.
SPEAKER_04Well see, that's what got you a distributor from my point of view, because I'm sitting here at the hub of the wheel and I see all these things happening and and some docs, even though they're brilliant docs, just don't get uh the distributor uh or they don't get the quality that they should have gotten.
SPEAKER_01And what yes, Carol, but don't forget, let's give cat let's give Janice Engel credit too. She made an incredible, incredible film. She directed an you know, just brilliant film.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I saw that early on. But what is so interesting, the majority of filmmakers do not realize that distributors want you more if you know how to social network. If you know how to market your film, then they're thrilled to have you. They just like you said, they just want to take over. They don't want to have to start from scratch. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And they like to see look, it's important to build the social media, you know that. If you're even applying for grants, they look at your social media. They look at your so the distributors look to see your social media, what you're following. Of course, if you have a giant following, a distributor is like, oh, oh my god, they already have people following them. It's it's a win-win for them if you already have built it. So I say go build it immediately. Don't wait, don't wait till you're in festivals, don't wait, you know, till don't even wait till the film is finished. Start it immediately.
SPEAKER_04Oh, how smart of you. You're absolutely right. Well, um, I know uh you were saying that after the uh crowdfunding that checks be uh still came in. In other words, uh the all of the social networking, the social networking led to a successful crowdfunding campaign, as well as other larger donations that went through the nonprofit, right? Right. Yes, true, exactly true.
SPEAKER_01And um, you know, that's for several reasons. You know, uh you know, we were out at all the festivals networking. Um also, you know, Kickstarter also lets you leave leave it up indefinitely and you put a link everywhere to the donation. So people can constantly donate and we were still asking for donations across social media. And you know, it wasn't like the a hundred thousand dollars, the things still trickled in. And uh you know you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. That's important. That really is. Um, well, how much time do you ask the filmmaker to commit to achieve these goals? And what is the role of the filmmaker in building this?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know the are you talking about how long the actual crowdfund is or how long the campaign is?
SPEAKER_04No, the whole building your database, building your audience, how much time do you ask the filmmaker to commit? Because they have to have a hand in it, right? They have to help people.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. They have to help me. I I I need content from them mostly. Um at the very beginning, I don't have the voice of the project. I have to learn the voice of the project, the mission of the project, and all of that, and that all takes time. So I look like I like I as much time as you want to give me before you start, I'm happy. I could do I can build it with two months out from the starting of a you know a fundraising situation. But the more time you give me, the better off I can be, and the more community I can build ahead of time and the better off your whole fundraising and put down the road is gonna be. Does that answer the question?
SPEAKER_04And I yes, this is very important. It it uh it requires them working with you. They I can understand this. Yes, they have to come up with ideas uh of things that have happened and and give them to you for you to bring to the audience to create that uh attention camaraderie and uh connection to the film.
SPEAKER_01Well um yes I I get all the research uh you know material and I get pictures and I everything that they have that they've been working on I usually get access to and I can pull content from there and they also suggest content.
SPEAKER_04And they suggest content right that's important. So it's amazing that you and from the heart are working on so many of the fame same films because um right and I know right now you're working on the feature film with Manhattan Transfer and Miles is a lovely man. I'm so proud of the work he's doing. He's great and and you're working on the feature film Planet Gleece uh so tell us about working with Carol Joyce and Basil Moore on this sci-fi film.
SPEAKER_01All right this is a this is an undertaking this project and I you know i it it it makes it sort of makes my head want to explode but we're working so hard on this as a matter of fact we have a show and tell event this Thursday please go to planicglease.com and register for the event it's free um it's just like an introduction to what the film is it's very early on um God bless Boswell and Carol we're starting just like I like very early to build everything and we're having an event just to show you what it's gonna be to show you who's involved um they have a lot of amazing people on board the producer of uh all the Superman movies and the producer of all the lethal weapon movies is involved um Basel is a force of nature you cannot cannot be around him without getting excited and uh God Carol Joyce somebody somebody raised her right and uh she is an amazing pr an amazing producer. And so uh Planet Greece is a is a sci fi film but the but it's not your your usual Hollywood film, okay? It really it speaks to uh a different uh it speaks to uh uh nonviolent uh conflict resolution and global unity and peace and I know I sound very Pollyanna but if there's anything that we need right now it's global peace and unity. And how to how to solve situations without violence. And that's what this film in a very entertaining intergalactical way is going to do. So it's like space meets nonviolent resolution meets global unity. It's like and it's fun on top of it and it's it's just gonna be a trip a a journey so to speak we're all very excited about it. Very very excited about it.
SPEAKER_04Well um so you go to Planet Glease and that is spelled G-L I E S E planetglease dot com.
SPEAKER_01And now they're really right on the home page. Right on the homepage is a link. A planet Glee right yes there is a planet there is a planet glee and um it was it was discovered in the 70s and the the the the the story goes that it possibly might have an atmosphere somewhat similar to Earth. There hasn't been enough of a um you know study yet to find out but it it may actually have an atmosphere similar to Earth. That's what and that's what we're playing off of. You know the fictional side of this the fictional side of this.
SPEAKER_04But yeah And it's a woman it's a hero yes yes there's a woman hero of course I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yes yes this is a wonderful story it's a really wonderful story.
SPEAKER_04I'm so glad you love it because yeah it's a feel good and it's an empowering film.
SPEAKER_01Uh let me ask you did uh you suggest that he connect with the Einstein Foundation for peaceful have that connection but but I but we are absolutely searching for other partners if anybody listening knows any other uh partners uh who are you know peace organizations who you think might be interested in partnering with us please please contact us and let us know. We're in the early early stages like I said or if you're interested in uh sponsoring or helping please please contact us at claniclease.com. It's it's gonna be a fun ride and there are many fun people attached to this project that are going to blow everybody's mind.
SPEAKER_04Oh wonderful yeah yeah yes okay so um so Thursday is the event and you're on show and tell and so you want to give us a little idea of how that works in other words uh it's an introduction to the film we're gonna learn what it is.
SPEAKER_01Yes yes there's there's no there's no footage or or trailer or anything else so so Basil creatively has put together um a uh a presentation that's gonna explain what the film is um and and show you a little bit about the storyline and then we're going to have a discussion and we're gonna discuss the film and discuss uh you know the mission of the film and discuss all of the points you know that we want to bring up to let everybody know what we want to want to to achieve by this film. Um so what happens is you'll you click the link, you register and you come to the film um you come to a presentation and after the presentation there's another link to click to join a Zoom presentation. We would love for you to donate also because we are still in the fundraising mode for the film but the the event is free and you do not have to donate but of course we would love you to donate too. So sure that's absolutely absolutely your uh prerogative but uh please come and check it out and find out what we're doing because it's really fun and and at least you know follow us on all your social media you know to keep up with what we're doing because there's going to be some exciting things coming down the pike.
SPEAKER_04Oh how wonderful yes that sounds exciting. And we all should get involved in with anything that has a good energy like this with peace and forgiveness and understanding and yet you know that you you may be up for some awards for grants rather because of that energy. There are good grants out there for that right absolutely um so when if filmmakers that are interested in you and your services tell us how they can reach you you can reach me at um social media darlingproductions dot com and you can also find me on Facebook at social media darlingsproductions dot com and uh I'm all uh you can find me.
SPEAKER_01I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram if you want me you can get me. You can find me on the Molly Idans page you can find me on the Planet Glee page. It's not hard to find you can find me from Carol. Carol knows where I am on that's right.
SPEAKER_04Definitely great and tell us in what stage can they be when they maybe they're just starting to shoot or early on.
SPEAKER_01Any any stage I love you if you haven't even started this shoot and I love you if you come to me with a film that's in the can. It doesn't matter I I work with any I'm an equal opportunity worker. I work with anybody who has a film. We can work from any point and I have started from any point. It doesn't matter you know but you everybody has to have social media. You can't do a film without social media in this day and age. It doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_04Right my opinion Oh this is great. All right well w what do you see coming down the pike? What is your future and what are you looking at as uh new ways and exciting ways for filmmakers to uh raise money and keep moving in docs are low budget features.
SPEAKER_01Well you know I'm very excited. I I I gotta tell you that that this show and telling is the first thing that I see that has veered from the you know what the the crowdfunding niche that we had been in. And I I see other things probably sprouting from that but from that right now you know I I think what it will be, Carol is it's going to be something more virtual. You know, I think it's going to be virtual um uh events that we weren't able to do before. I mean it's much more powerful if you can hold an event virtually where everybody can come and actually see instead of like visualizing on a on a Kickstarter page a picture of the event and uh of a a cliff or a pitch. It's better to do it in a live event. Where they can ask you questions about what you're doing after. I mean it's it's a it seems like doesn't it seem like a no brainer when you actually think about it. Yeah, it does.
SPEAKER_04And and I bet you you could uh get you could invite your potential partners to come to an event like this so they could see it a and decide if they wanted to get involved.
SPEAKER_01Yes and also you could partner with people ahead of time who could bring people to the event. That's what show and tell preaches and that's what we're trying to do also. You know, get partners to to hold the event with you. Um especially to the films that are already in the can. You get partners who are interested in the film and then you present the film on show and tell with the partners and it's a way to to uh you know drum up distribution. I mean it's an incredible platform. Show and tell films dot com check it out show and tell film show and tell bot film. Sorry.
SPEAKER_04Sorry Keith show and tell bot film Yes that's right and and then you spell the word and you spell that out.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_04Okay give us your website commercial for Keith it's turned into a commercial for Keith Yes I know I can't help it. Um I took that class with Peter Broderick and Keith. They gave two classes I took both of them I wasn't the only one that took both classes there were a lot of us because there is so much to learn about the new forms of raising money. Uh all of it is good but all of it requires more and more attaching uh partners and people early on. Right. Building your own market and even though it's a lot of work but when you get to the end of the road you you can make more money because you have the audience right you can do better. That's absolutely correct that's absolutely correct yes that's that's the deal Carol and that's where we're going where you attach uh partners.
SPEAKER_03Keith calls them uh super fans right yes he does I love that term super fans yes and they're out there for every subject that you there's um always a super fan a company a corporation a group that you can attach to your film well thank you so much for sharing all of this Gerald I've really learned a lot my pleasure Carol anytime you know I'm a big fan of yours oh thank you well we'll be watching Thursday night to see what happens with Glee and learn more about that and what it is is we're all learning a whole new way of marketing making films right exactly and hopefully a whole new way of interacting and changing the world and changing the world one documentary at a time wonderful yes exactly exactly oh thank you so much thank you and Claire thank you sweet thank you guys oh yes yes always a pleasure Gerald I am so excited about everything that's going on with you and uh looking forward to hearing more yes anytime okay thank you so much we appreciate all you do for filmmakers oh you're welcome and happy holidays to everybody it's coming up it's almost time okay thank you holidays thank you everyone thank you now in its second edition Carol Dean's popular book The Art of Film Funding has 12 new chapters to cover all areas of film financing and how to avoid expensive pitfalls learn how to start with an idea and end with a trailer how to make an ask for money create your story structure and your trailer legal advice fair use successful crowdfunding how to ask for music rights and what insurance you can't shoot without available on Amazon under Carol Dean and at FromTheheartproductions.com I want to remind our listeners that David Rakelin is a brilliant and talented award-winning musician who scores films and can compose music for a trio or for a full orchestra David is a very good friend to the independent filmmaker and comes highly recommended by From the Heart production. If you need music to help tell your story please contact him at davidwakeland.comidra.com and Carol and I want to thank you for tuning in to the Art of Film Funding please visit our website at From theheartproductions.com you can also find us on Facebook and Twitter.
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