From Idea to Impact: Sarah Moshman on Funding, Filming, and Releasing Your Documentary

Sarah Moshman is an Emmy Award-winning documentary filmmaker and TEDx speaker whose work has been featured on Netflix, PBS, Upworthy, Marie Claire, CNN, and Good Morning America. 

Sarah has directed and produced 3 feature-length documentaries: The Empowerment Project: Ordinary Women Doing Extraordinary Things (2014), Losing Sight of Shore (2017) and NEVERTHELESS (2020)

Sarah is an inspiring public speaker, author, and a teacher in documentary film, passionate about empowering the next generation of storytellers. In 2024 Sarah launched her own program to support women filmmakers over 30 called Look What SHE's Doing! which she intends to continue as part of her legacy for years. Her book Empowered Filmmaking is highly regarded as an excellent textbook.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Welcome to our podcast. I'm Carol Dean, president of From the Heart Productions. Our guest today is Sarah Moshman, an Emmy award-winning documentary filmmaker. Please join us and learn how to take your documentary idea from development through distribution and get some great funding tips.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Our very special guest today is Sarah Moshman. She's an Emmy Award-winning documentary filmmaker and TEDx speaker whose work has been featured on Netflix, PBS, Upworthy, Marie Clare, CNN, and Good Morning America. Sarah has directed and produced three feature-length documentaries. Sarah is an inspiring public speaker, an author, and a teacher in documentary film passionate about empowering the next generation of storytellers. In 2024, Sarah launched her own program to support women filmmakers over 30 called Look What She's Doing, which she intends to continue as part of her legacy for years. Her book, Empowered Filmmaking, is highly regarded as an excellent textbook. And Carol, Sarah, has a lot to share on film funding, production, and distribution.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

She does, and her book is a gift to filmmakers. So thank you, Sarah, for joining us. Thanks for having me. You know, from the first page of your book, I felt welcome. It was like I was conversing with an old friend. So today we want to share information on film funding, goal setting, and learning how to be profitable making documentaries. So having you to guide us with all your years of experience is what we sincerely appreciate. So let's get started with developing a documentary idea. Okay? So Empowered Filmmaking, your book, is all about creating a documentary on your own terms. So what are the first steps a filmmaker should take once they have an idea for a documentary?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, um there's so many routes to take, but I think one of the most important things to do is really to articulate to yourself, you know, what is the story that you're trying to tell, and not try to fit into these buckets of what you think a network or distributor or production company would want, but truly what is the story that you want to tell? And by the way, that's gonna evolve. I think a lot of filmmakers think they have to have all the answers at the beginning and have their story mapped out, but especially when it comes to documentary, that's the magic, right? Is that the idea is gonna evolve, the character is gonna go through a transformation, the event will unfold perhaps in an unexpected way. So that's what's really wonderful about documentary filmmaking is that you're on a journey. That's life. You know, life does not go by a script for anybody. So really embracing the journey of what it will become. And and but at those first few moments, you know, what is the log line of your project at this moment? What is the synopsis? And it's okay if it'll change, but really thinking about, you know, what are the images associated with this? Create a mood board or, you know, the inklings of a first deck to really start to articulate what your project is about. Um, the next step might be, and in some cases, the a good route to take is to secure the access to the subject, to the event, to the story in some way, because that's what really can set you apart when you're pitching an idea is having some kind of agreement in place for exclusivity of access to that individual or to that story. Um, not always possible, of course, but that really helps you, I find, when you're pitching a story to say, I'm the only person that can tell this story, which really helps someone potentially consider funding the idea. So, yeah, that's where I would begin is really start to map it out, be creative, think about what you want this film to be, start to watch the movie in your mind. Um, that's really where the creative process begins. And then if we're thinking more practically, it's like how to secure some access to the story.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Exactly. Uh, because we give four grants with from the heart. So I know from reading tons of applications, and I always uh realized that documentary filmmakers have no idea what they might cover with their interviews, right, Sarah?

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Right, exactly. Then and it would be weird if they did. I mean, it's it's funny. My my father's a filmmaker as well, Harvey Moshman, and he always said to me growing up, if you make the film you set out to make, you did it wrong. And I love that. It's very freeing, right? It's like, oh, okay, cool. I mean, my inner overachiever like thinks I'm supposed to have all the answers and know everything. But I think the most magical, moving interviews I've ever had are the ones where they go in a completely different direction that I didn't expect. Um, and that's because I'm I'm listening so intently and I'm I'm I'm searching for story beyond what I came there to capture. So um, yeah, it's it's good to hear on the grant side of things that that's embraced because I think filmmakers applying for grants also certainly feel like, oh, shouldn't I know everything? Shouldn't I be able to articulate how the whole thing's gonna go, where it's gonna be distributed, what the full budget is. But it's always great to hear from people giving out grants like yourself that um that's part of it. We get it, we understand that this is an evolution.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yes, it is. And what's so interesting is that we know you probably won't make the film you think you're going to make. Right. You to pretend that you know what you're going to make, so that when these surprises come along, it usually takes you in a better path.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yes, yeah. And that happened, that honestly happens to me on every single film. And it it should it shouldn't be surprising anymore. And yet somehow it still is. You're like, oh, that's the story I'm really here to tell. Or oh, this isn't a feature. It's actually a much more powerful short, you know, or the opposite. Um, it's it's that's kind of the beautiful part that unfolds every time. And it and I think that's why I keep coming back because you just don't know what's gonna happen, and you don't know how you as a person are gonna change and and be changed and evolve by the journey as well, and who you're gonna meet in the process. So yeah, I think that's why I despite how difficult this is, and sometimes I feel like I just have a very expensive hobby, Carol. I just think, oh, what am I doing? Um, it's it keeps me coming back because it just is so such a human experience if you let it.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

You know, Casabetti said, I'm not an actor, I'm acting because I have an expensive hobby, filmmaking.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Right. So, okay, now what happens is once you figure out what you want to do and you start working on your budget, and then you take on this shock that it may take you several years to make this documentary, then filmmakers struggle with the imposter syndrome or fear that they're not ready to start with the film. So, how do you encourage filmmakers to push through those doubts and take action?

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, gosh, that's a tough one. Because I think it's for every person they're on a different journey. But all I can say is on the on the other side, having made a few films, it's it has just been the most worthy journeys of my life, even when it's been films that haven't worked out. I mean, truly, I've had for as many projects as I've had come out, Carol, I've had just as many fall apart. I mean, it's like such a heartbreaking business, you know. Um, but even even the projects that fell apart, I've learned so much and had some incredible experiences along the way. So I would, for those feeling imposter syndrome or doubt, that is normal. You're not supposed to have all the answers, you're not supposed to know. I love this analogy of, you know, the entrepreneur's journey, which I find to be very much in parallel or intertwined with the filmmaker's journey is you jump off the cliff and you build the parachute on the way down. And that is very much what this is. I have never had a full budget from the start of a project. And I hope someday that that that won't be true. I'm even right these, you know, this very day I'm pitching projects and hoping that someday someone will say, Okay, you've done some good work, Sarah. I see you know what you're doing. I trust you. Here's a million dollars. You know, like it just doesn't work that way for so many of us. You have to, you know, take a risk, stick your neck out, you know, go film a little bit, then raise some money, then go film some more, and then raise some more money. You know, it's it's a multi-pronged strategy and it's a it's the long game. And you have to really, really, really believe in your bones that this story, whatever that story is, is worth telling and that the journey is worth going on. So I would just say it's normal to feel imposter syndrome. I I would say I don't really feel imposter syndrome all the time. I just feel like lost. There's definitely so many days where I feel like, am I doing this right? Like, am I taking all the right habit? Am I doing this the smart way? But then at the end of the day, I just try to remember like I'm my mission and my values of how I move through the world, that what's passionate for me is to represent women's stories on screen, trailblazing women throughout history, women breaking norms, breaking barriers, um, paving the way for others to follow. Like, as long as the project I'm working on kind of falls under that umbrella, then I know that it's worth all this time and hard work. Um and I know that there's an audience for my films and that they want this kind of content. Um, and so I fight really hard to tell those stories, even when it doesn't make sense, even when everything's telling me maybe this was a terrible idea and I should turn around. Um but I just get so much out of making these films, and I think so many other filmmakers do as well. So it's a worthwhile journey, but certainly individual for each person to decide how much time and energy and effort to put in, um, especially when you're not being paid at the beginning for sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Right. Yes, you're when you're not being paid, you have to put a lot of time in. But I commend you because you have a mission statement, and this is really important in talking to people when they when you want money and you're dealing with high network net worth individuals who've made a lot of money, they have a mission, a vision, and a goal. So they're goal setters. They have uh love to hear you say, my mission as a filmmaker, and make a statement around that, which you did. This is empowering to potential funders because that means that you've already analyzed this film. It fits your mission and you have specific goals. So your chances of completing are much higher than the average person. So you go way up, and in fact, you help them cross the uh likability and trust issue that must come before any donations. Do I like this woman? Do I trust her? Will she make a good film? All that's going on. So when you have a mission statement, uh you relax the potential donor because they feel like you know what you're doing. So great.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, and I think what's what we forget as filmmakers is how important and useful and impactful our skill set is to be able to tell stories in this visual, visceral way. I mean, we can we can seriously change hearts and minds with making a powerful film. And so remember that when you're talking with a donor, with a high net worth individual, with someone who's interested in making, you know, having their name on a film, but doesn't have any idea how to actually make a film at all, let alone a good one. You know, remember that your skill set is valuable. And so when you're pitching an idea to a donor, you are pitching yourself as well, maybe even more so than the film, is saying, this is me, I'm Sarah Moshman, this is what I care about, these are the stories that I tell. And the more films that you've made, the more you have in your portfolio to share as proof that you're gonna not only execute a great project, but you have this through line of a mission. And here's the impact that I've made with my films. And so undoubtedly I've learned everything from those experiences, and I'm gonna bring it to this film, and here's how I want to tell this story. And I have to say, Carol, this happened to me just last week, and it was so wonderfully validating that someone who had donated to one of my documentaries actually met this person through Kickstarter, which is great to hear that there's real and you know, wonderful people out there. So he had he and his family foundation had donated to my Kickstarter for my film Nevertheless, and then ended up donating a significant amount of money at the end of the post-production process for finishing funds. So this person funded one of my documentaries like seven years ago, right? But we've kept in touch. And just last week, I sort of presented to him all of the projects I'm working on. You know, I've got like two feature docs and shorts and all the things. And sure enough, it was just so validating for him to say, look, I'm gonna donate some money to you. I trust you that you'll allocate it however you need to. I'm just really excited about the stories that you're telling. And I, you know, I can't wait to see what you do. And it was just like, wow, finally, you know, and it's not it's not gonna fund a whole project, but it's certainly meaningful enough funding to get me to the next stage with one of my projects. And that was just so wonderful. And it just made me feel so good that I've been doing the right things and making good work and people notice, you know. So hopefully that's around the corner for many of us. This idea that high net worth individuals are a donor doesn't really buy into you as the film itself. They're buying into you, like they're picking you, they're saying you're the person that I know can make good work, and I want you to, I want to empower you to keep going. So don't forget that our skill set is really, really valuable in the world and we we can create empathy, we can change hearts and minds. Um, and that's where social impact and filmmaking really intersect in such a beautiful way.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Yes, you can. And this is wonderful. People give money to people, not to films. That's what I teach. And you've just proven it. He gave you the money for you to decide how to use it, knowing that you're the uh talent. And that's what's so important for all filmmakers and particularly documentarians, because you're really out there all alone making a film on probably a little-known situation that you think needs to be told. So uh well done. Now, let me ask you uh you said sometimes some films work, some didn't. So, what do you think makes an idea strong enough to carry an entire feature-length film?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah, that's a good question. Um of course it just depends. Um, for a for if it's a character-based idea, I think that person needs to go through or those people need to go through some setup come some kind of significant transformation, right? I mean, it could be short, let's say something wild is happening within one week, but typically it's gonna unfold over time. Um, my best example, of course, is my film Losing Sight of Shore, where four women got in a pink 29-foot ocean rowing boat and they rowed across the entire Pacific Ocean. Now, who they were, yeah, who they were as women when they started the journey is completely different than who they are as women when they end the journey nine months later. So the film is about that nine-month journey. It's really very much, even though it's a documentary, it's very much the hero's journey. You know, who is the leader? How do they interact with each other? How do they uplift each other? How do they overcome physical, emotional, you know, challenges? And they're literally rowing across the Pacific Ocean. So there's the rowing side, but then there's also the friendship side. And it's really a story about the power of the human spirit. And so, although I had absolutely no idea how that film would turn out, you know, the journey was supposed to be six months and it turned out to be nine months, I knew that that was that was the film, is that how they would get through it, what's gonna happen, what's the the inherent drama and then the internal drama? And I wanted to be, you know, I wanted to give them cameras so they can tell their own story out at sea, and then I met them on land along the way. So that's an example of I'm not sure what's gonna happen, but I we need to see it, we need to understand. And then my job in the edit was to craft that story. You know, it could have gone a thousand different ways. It really could have, I always think about how the same filmmaker would have made, or I'm sorry, the same hard drives given to like 10 different filmmakers would have yielded 10 very different films. Oh, that's right. Yes, right. So it's um, yeah, that's an example of of you know characters unfolding. I think to be honest, the projects of mine that have fallen apart, it's been more, more the people, you know, behind the scenes where things have gone awry, where someone had never made a documentary before, or you know, the story just didn't pan out to be what we thought it would. There's there's so many reasons for things to fall apart because these projects take so long and most people are not getting paid nearly enough to sustain, and so you have to have other projects and other jobs, and so sometimes things just fall apart. But I would say as long as you have a compelling character that's going to go through some kind of transformation, then that's interesting to watch. Um, but I would also free yourself of the format. I think today, especially, we shouldn't be so tied to short versus feature. Like, really just make the best possible project. Don't draw it out to be 90 minutes if it's really only meant to be 60 minutes. You know, there's so many platforms for your film now. And doesn't it drive you crazy, Carol, when you can tell that like Netflix is milking something for like three extra episodes? It's like just make something that's good, that has a beginning, middle, and end. And it shouldn't, you know, people just want to make more money by having more episodes. But when you're talking about an independent film, I would just say, you know, tell the best possible story and and end it when it needs to be ended. Don't try to draw it out to be 90 minutes or two hours because nobody has the attention span for it.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Very true. That's very true. Even even Disney is canceling some features, they're going to shorter formats. And that for documentaries, I think 60 minutes sells much faster than 90. And also a 40-minute short is perfect for some issues because then you have 20 or 30 minutes for discussion afterwards, and you can put that into an hour and a half event and make money that way.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Exactly. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

With uh yeah, with virtual screenings and everything seems to be moving in that direction. So um, let's get into fundraising because in your book you talk about different ways to fundraise. So, what do you think are some of the most effective fundraising strategies?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah, I would say um, yes, funding is so daunting. I just anecdotally, like when I went to film school, I graduated in 2008, we never, nobody ever even mentioned the word fundraising. So this is something that needs to be taught more widely in film schools than I hope it is now. But just to say, like, even though I went to film school and not everyone needs to or does go, of course, but none of this that I share in the book that I've learned came from school. This all just came from necessity and realizing, oh, half my job as a director is raising money so that I can be a director, so I can create my own opportunities. So it's a part of the pie. I mean, people that think, oh, I'm not good at fundraising, I don't want to do that. Yeah, me neither, but it's a necessary part of the journey if you want to make your own work, if you want to create these projects. Um, it's just a part of the deal, is being an entrepreneur if you're gonna be an independent filmmaker. So just sort of embrace that and um hopefully it'll make the feeling of being on set that much more gratifying. Because to me, by the time we're rolling, I've worked so hard to just even sit in that chair and press record and ask those questions. I'm really proud by then. So just anecdotally, like please just honor the journey that fundraising is a part of the deal. And I don't think most filmmakers embrace that. Um, so there's so many different ways to fundraise for your film. Um, again, I never really have a full budget from the start. Usually I make a shiny budget, if you will. Like, what does the project cost? If I was fully funded on day one, what would it cost? And then I kind of operate with like, all right, what do what do I actually have? What do I have what do I have access to? Um, more of a nuts and bolts day-to-day budget. Um so that can, those can be very different, you know, from your shiny budget to what you actually make the film for. Um, I would say first step would be crowdfunding. Um, it's definitely a lot tougher to crowdfund these days because there's so much saturation on the internet, of course. Um, but that shouldn't dissuade you because crowdfunding is such a wonderful way to get some money through the door about an idea. You know, a lot of these other fundraising modes we can discuss are based on like having a video sample, having a sizzle reel, having something to show for what you've made. Whereas crowdfunding might be a great first stop because it's based on your idea. And you might have some images or some pages of your script if it's a narrative project, or you know, maybe that first interview with somebody in who's going to be in your documentary, or maybe you just have the access, you know. Um, all of those things help you shape a crowdfunding campaign, which can be a great way to just get that initial seed money through the door so that you can have that first shoot or have that first couple months of production. Um, and that's been really an effective tool for me. I've done two crowdfunding campaigns on Kickstarter five years apart. The first one I raised like$28,000, and the second one I raised over$50,000. And both of those campaigns were not just useful for the money, which was wonderful and really meaningful to my process, but beyond that, it was people and resources and support. And as I mentioned, this private donor that I met through Kickstarter has, you know, seven, eight years later, has now given me additional money for future projects. So it's it's a really powerful way to put yourself out there and say, hey, world, I'm a filmmaker. This is what I want to do. Who wants to rally around this idea? Whether it's your family and friends or it's people in your network or people in your network's network, you know, it's just a great way to get some money through the door. Yes, it's difficult. Yes, it's like a full-time job on top of your probably already full-time jobs. Um, there's so much more to say about how to run an effective crowdfunding campaign that I, you know, seriously go through in the book. I'll say that the main thesis to me of crowdfunding, which I'll just share briefly here. And then if you want to learn more, feel free to check it out in the book, or there's plenty of resources on all the crowdfunding platforms like Seed and Spark, Kickstarter, Indiegogo. But to me, the heartbeat of crowdfunding is how do you present the same information every day in a different, compelling way? And what I mean by that is, you know, how do you not just post, hey, here's my Kickstarter, here's my Kickstarter, here's my Kickstarter. Like, how do you tell a story around your campaign so that people are compelled, inspired to share, to support, to take out their wallet and create a login and put in their credit card information, which as we know can be quite a heavy lift these days. Um, so to me, that's that's really what crowdfunding is about is like rallying support around an idea, a social issue, you know, your film, you, all the people involved in your film, and it's presenting that information as a story in and of itself. So use your storytelling skills to tell the story of your campaign. And there's so many ways to do that, and I'll I'll kind of leave it at that for now. But that's a big part of what I learned crowdfunding is really about. And the people that just post their link and think people are gonna flock to it and donate, just like have completely missed the point. You know, there's so much more to do.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Um you're right, you have to engage people. So, well, yes, this is what I say. Write at least five emails before you ever start crowdfunding, then say the same thing in five different ways, just what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Exactly. And then um another great route to go would be grants. So um, grants require a lot of writing, but the good news is, and what is that writing? Well, the writing you're gonna do is like what's your log line, what's your synopsis, you know, what's your budget, who is your projected audience, you know, what's your distribution plan? Like basically these grant organizations, just like from the heart, want to know can we trust you with this money? Are you gonna execute your idea the way you say you are? Um, what is the film that you're making, even if it'll evolve? Um, grants require, you know, a lot of writing up front, but to be honest, all of that writing is really useful for you to articulate your vision, even if it's ultimately just for you, to say, well, what is it? What am I trying to say? Who is my audience? All of those questions are really important to answer. And what's helpful about um several grants have gotten together to create the core application, which is available at documentary.org if you want to check it out. Basically, like, you know, how when you were applying for college and you wanted to apply to like 20 colleges at once, you would fill out the common application so that you didn't have to fill out 20 different applications. The core application is similar for grants. So on documentary.org, um, you can look up what that application is and you could even start filling it out today, even if your grant deadline isn't for six months. You could start to fill it out and understand what they are gonna ask and start to map out those answers. So grants can be anywhere from$500 to$500,000. Um, very few are in that$100,000 range. I'd say most grants are somewhere in the$50,000 or less range, you know, 20 to 50 are the bigger grants. Um and they're really great to apply for, but I would not rely on any of them. I would say apply for several, like keep your eye on those deadlines because they're throughout the year. Every grant is a little bit different. Um, but you know, there's no guarantee of getting one of those grants. So it's up to you to put your best foot forward and fill out the applications and and try to articulate your vision the best you can. But at the end of the day, it is competitive and there's hundreds of other applicants that also want that money because it is essentially a donation, a free money. You know, you don't have to pay it back. Um, but I would just not don't waste your time applying for grants that don't really serve your project. Meaning, go to the website of the grant organization and really read what they are looking for, what kind of issues do they support? Um, most of these grants are very clear with their mission, with their mandate. Um, maybe they only support women filmmakers, maybe they're interested in criminal justice stories this year, maybe they care deeply about the environment. Okay, well, if your project does not fall into one of those buckets, then maybe don't waste your time or theirs. So I would be just very intentional with what grants to apply for and do your homework. Like if you can find out what projects were awarded the grant last year, maybe you could contact one of those filmmakers and ask to see their application, which is not cheating, you know, your application is gonna be completely different. Um, I've done that many times with a grant I received. Um, I received actually one grant twice, you know, for two different projects, which was amazing. Um, but also as a testament to, okay, I did well with the first project, so that grant organization trusted me to deliver on the second project. And so they awarded me the grant again. Um, but grants are really hard to get. I mean, for Losing Sight of Shore, the same film about rowing, I know I applied to at least nine grants before I got one, the 10th grant. So I was rejected by nine before I got one when we were in post-production. So it's it's the long game, it's tough. Uh, but again, I don't think that work is wasted. I think you having to articulate your vision and what your project is about as it evolves is a really good exercise. Um, but I would just, you know, don't put all your eggs in the grant basket. You you might maybe hopefully get one grant during your journey, but maybe not. Um, so I would apply, but not rely on that funding. And then hopefully one day on like a random Tuesday, you get an email of like, hey, you got a grant, like which is what happened to me. And I was like, oh my God, yay! So sometimes it works out. Um so that's grants. Um, another route to take would be private donors, like we talked about. I highly recommend most, if not all, documentary filmmakers uh get what's called a fiscal sponsor. So a fiscal sponsor is when you team up with a 501c3 nonprofit, and basically there's a pass-through fee, usually five to eight percent, and then you get the rest. So, what do I mean by that? So if I if I meet a private donor, let's say at on Kickstarter or at South by Southwest or whatever, and they say, Oh, I really love that you're making a documentary about climate change. That's what I care deeply about, but I'm not a filmmaker. How do I support your project? You could say, well, I actually have a fiscal sponsor in place, meaning you can get the tax, you can make a tax-deductible donation to my project. So then the donor writes the check to the 501 after you've you know aligned with them, there might be an application of some kind. Um, then they take their fee, which is five to eight percent, try to get it to five percent, um, and then you get the rest. So if they wrote a$50,000 check to the 501c3, you net out at$48,500. And the the 51c3 got that, if it's 5%, got$2,500. So everyone wins, right? So the donor got the tax deduction, the 51c3 got this pass-through fee, and you get the rest to use um on your project in whatever way you need. And it's a donation, so that the money is not to be recouped. And in exchange for that donation, you um will allocate some kind of credit to that donor, and that's up to you. It could be an executive producer credit or you know, an impact producer credit. There are some guidelines about that this these days, but ultimately it's up to you to decide. And then your fiscal sponsor gets their logo or some kind of credit as well in your film. So that's a really smart thing to have set up. In fact, some grants actually will require making the, you know, when if you get a grant, they might say, Great, who's your fiscal sponsor? Or like, where do we write the check because it they want to go from a 501c3 to a 501c3. Um, so it's a really smart thing to have set up for pretty much any project because you can then be ready and available to take um tax deductible donations for your project. And that way you could even do a fundraising event, which I've done as well, where you could have like a night dedicated to your project, and all the donations that come in are all tax deductible. So that's a really great thing to have in place um for any film.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Yes, thank you for that, because that's what we do, and education is a key factor. Always look for a sponsor that has a lot of education available to you. So um now, Sarah, tell us how people can reach you.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Sure. So um uh my website's kind of the best place to find all the work that I do. I'm Sarah Moshman.com, S-A-R-A-H, M-O-S-H-M-A-N.com. Um, and there's a a teaching tab. I have some of my workshops. I have a fundraising workshop and a distribution workshop on my website. You can also find my book through my website. I do a lot of consulting with filmmakers where I talk to them for an hour and we brainstorm fundraising strategies or distribution or anything, really like getting a project set up so you can work with me as a consultant. Um I do camera audio and lighting workshops in Burbank, usually two to three times a year. I just had one a few weeks ago. It was so much fun. Um, I care deeply about empowering people to use the camera so that they can tell the stories that matter to them. Uh so often I'm sent out as like a one-woman band, like just in just next week, I'm heading to Texas with camera, audio and lighting. And it's just me, and I'm making like a five-minute piece for an educational company. Um, so I just really think it's important that filmmakers can also get up and and use the camera and tell the stories that matter to them. So I I love teaching that workshop as well. So lots of ways to get involved with me and and see my films and and reach out. And then there's always Instagram. Um, my handle is just at Sarah Moshman or on LinkedIn as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Great. Thank you so much. Well, let's get into production and storytelling. Now, once a filmmaker secures funding and they begin production, what are the biggest challenges that they need to prepare for when shooting a documentary?

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Ooh, um gosh, so it completely depends on the project, of course, but I would say being able to effectively capture the footage that you need, whether when you're in the field, you know, if your shoot is a day or 10 days or a month, you know, how do you effectively capture the story that you want and need to capture so that you can continue pushing the narrative forward? And there can be so many obstacles when it comes to that, whether it's weather or interpersonal challenges or the story isn't what you thought it was. Um, there's there's so many things that can go wrong, and there's so many things that can go right. Um, so for me, when I'm planning a shoot, you know, logistically, I'm thinking about, you know, the travel side of it, what gear am I going to use, what camera, what lenses, who's gonna be my crew, can I afford to hire a cinematographer? Because although I can shoot and I love to shoot, um I adore working with you know very talented cinematographers who can bring their creative voice and vision and make the film that much more beautiful and effective. Um, so I'm hiring crew, I'm getting insurance, uh, you know, sometimes I have to act as my own accountant and payroll, you know, doing independent contractor agreements and collecting W9s. I mean, it's it's really very entrepreneurial when you're running your own set or running your own shoot. Um, I tend to be a producer is just intertwined with me as a director. So even when I'm directing, I'm very much always wearing my producer hat, you know, thinking about how things can be smooth, how to manage people, how to lead, um, and how to be a great storyteller in the moment. But I think if you if you plan as much as you can and kind of try to put out fires before they start, then when you get to set and the camera is rolling, you can truly be present and really get the most beautiful footage and that's compelling and emotional and hopefully better than you even expected. So yeah, it's a it's a delicate dance of of phases between fundraising to pre-production to production, and then you might be thinking about fundraising again and then editing. So there's I kind of just appreciate how filmmaking is the use of both sides of my brain, and and there's so many skills kind of wrapped into directing and producing.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Absolutely. Well, talking about managing people, since documentary filmmaking means working with real people who may not be comfortable on camera, how do you build trust with your subjects?

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Yeah, I would say the more time I can spend with them ahead of the shoot, the better, even if that's a phone call or a Zoom call. Now that I have a few films under my belt, I can send like the trailers to my films or my my films just so that they get to know here's what my my spirit and my energy and my passion, so they feel trusted. Like here's how I've told stories before. Um, I just want to be able to share my heart with them so that they'll share their heart with me. You know, I think that vulnerability goes both ways, right? So in an interview, I might share something that I went through in the hopes that they'll then feel disarmed and empowered and open to share what they went through. And that was never more apparent than when I made my film, Nevertheless, which is all about sexual harassment in the workplace. And there were some pretty, you know, awful stories shared, and and it was so moving that so many people felt welcomed and you know open to share with me on camera, which is not easy to do because you want them to kind of forget that the camera's there and not feel like they're performing or that they have to edit themselves or that they're being judged in any way. Um, so I feel like it's my job as a filmmaker to really share what my intention is. Here's here's what I'm here to do, here's why I want to make this film, here's why I'm putting all this time and energy and effort into this. My overall vision for this project is, you know, to change XYZ or to make people feel this way, or um to hopefully move the needle for women in terms of safety in the workplace, things like that, so that they know that that's really our North Star. Like, what is the intention? And if you don't share that, then people might feel a little bit more guarded. Um, why should they share, you know, this very painful story about their past, or even if it's not painful, why should someone share their story with you unless they feel safe to do so? So I think it's just up to you to build that rapport. Um, and and that can take time, even with the rowers that I mentioned who rowed across the Pacific. We had we met for the first time in person four days before they left on the journey. So we knew each other a little bit. But over the course of the nine months, we got so much closer, even though I wasn't on the boat with them, but I would meet them on land along the way. And so every time they saw this familiar face, you know, on land waiting for them, cheering them on. We would stay together for like a week when they were on land in between phases of the row. Um, I really became this staple on their team. And although I did not row across any ocean, they often would say that I was like the fifth member of the team. And so then they started speaking to the camera on the boat as if it was me. And it was just, it was so wonderful to feel like I was part of it, even though I wasn't physically with them on the ocean. I was there, and and that made the footage that much more intimate and personal because they felt like they were talking to a friend instead of just some camera. So it's a delicate art for sure, but definitely share yourself so that other people are are excited and interested and open to share with you.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Okay, well, let's get into distribution because that landscape is changing dramatically. So what are some of the best ways for filmmakers to get their documentaries seen in today's market?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Oh my goodness, Carol. Question of the hour. Um, I would say, my goodness, the landscape is just changing so fast. It's really hard to get anything made these days in terms of funded, but also distributed. I I would not be just delusional. There is no one's coming to save you. Like, you're not gonna go to Sundance and get this huge Netflix deal. Like, if that does happen, it's very much the exception to the rule these days. Um, lots of filmmaker friends I know that are getting a deal on Netflix, you know, the licensing fees are getting lower and lower unless the film is like super rare or the access is unprecedented, or it's, you know, a true crime story that everyone's been excited about. You know, it's really, really hard to make money uh from one distributor. Like those big deals just aren't really happening anymore. And we're seeing that at Sundance each year, less and less sales are being made like at the festival, um, which is often like, you know, a sign of what the industry is going through. I wouldn't, I would just sort of redefine what success means. Like every film and every filmmaker needs to decide what is the best case scenario for this film? Who is the audience? Like, don't try to reach everyone everywhere. Um, it's always just sort of funny. I'm sure you see this a lot, Carol, with people applying for grants. It's like, what's your distribution strategy? And it's like, we want to get into Sundance and then get on Netflix, or like we wanna, we think this film is meant to be seen by everyone everywhere. And it's like, well, that's silly. Like, we have a very fragmented market now, and I think we can use that to our advantage. Like, who's your audience? Great, go straight to them, like really focus on the niche of it all. Like, there's so many channels, there's so much noise, there's so much saturation. So, really focus on audience building, and the people that want to watch your film will champion it. They'll become ambassadors for it if you clue them in, if you give them special access, or you really celebrate them, gather them, you know, start to really think about who is my audience for this film and where do they watch content? Where do they hang out? You know, what social media accounts do they follow? Like really thinking like a marketer so that you can access and rally those people when your film is done. And then they'll watch your film no matter what platform it's on, right? Like if I really want to watch a film, I don't care where it is, I'll I'll figure it out. I'll watch it, I'll I'll start an account, you know? Um so I think it's by the way, these films take years to make, right? If you're making a feature documentary, especially, the landscape is going to change considerably between now and when your film is done, or from when you started it and today. Everything looks very different. So I would just not get too hung up on any one channel as success. Like if you've got your heart set on Netflix and it doesn't happen, that doesn't mean you're not successful or that you can't find another platform, or maybe Netflix is a part of your strategy, but not the whole strategy. And that's coming from me. And I was on Netflix for three years worldwide with my film Losing Set of Shore, which was a total dream come true. We made good money, I got to pay my investors back. Like it was wonderful. But that was also in 2017. It's now 2025, so things are very different. And I don't know if I could have made the same deal today that I made in 2017 because of how much Netflix creates their own content and can, you know, they don't need to pay so much for documentaries that they didn't make themselves, you know. So it's it's just an ever-changing landscape. There's no easy answer other than don't be disappointed when it doesn't pan out the way you hoped, and just be really focused and um empowered by all the options available to you. Maybe you do an educational distribution window for several months or years if that's profitable and impactful for you. Like don't, there's no shame in that. I did three years of educational distribution for my film, The Empowerment Project, and we screened over a thousand times all over the world. And then after that, we were on Hulu for a year. And to be honest, the Hulu just didn't even really feel like anything. I mean, it was like a little bit of money, but the educational distribution window was so amazing. You know, I got to travel around to schools and talk with young women and really feel like I the film was making a real difference in the world. And that was so much more warm and fuzzy and profitable too than a year on Hulu where it was like, oh, there it is, it's on Hulu, okay. And so it just completely depends on the film and your goals and the distribution strategy, but make sure. You're savvy to what's going on in our industry. Like, what are the platforms available to you? What is TVOD and AVOD, which is transactional video on demand and um ad-based video on demand? Like, make sure what is a fast channel? Like, there's so much research to be done to understand where your film can go and what kind of money you can make or not. Um, so based on based on your situation, do you have investors that you need to pay back? Do you have donors? So you're kind of you know free to explore. Is it really about social impact more than anything, where you want to like get legislation passed with your film? Like, what are your goals as a filmmaker at this moment in your career and at this moment in the distribution landscape, and really do your homework and understand? And I mean, I could do a whole nother hour on what to look out for in a distribution contract, but don't just sign away all your rights. Like, really, you've worked so hard to get to this moment, maybe years and hundreds of thousands of dollars maybe to get to this moment. Don't just sign away your film to the first distributor that comes along. Like, that's really a dangerous thing that happens to filmmakers too, is they just kind of sign away all their rights and then they hope to be collecting checks, and that's just not how it works. So you are very much an active participant in your distribution strategy, and the sooner you embrace that, the better.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Exactly. So now in closing, your book focuses on creating a documentary on your own terms. So tell us what that means to you so independent filmmakers can build a career while staying true to their vision.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, I mean, I guess for me, on on your own terms is sort of it can mean a lot of things. Like, first of all, on the cover of that book is myself and my daughter, who's now seven years old. But at the time on that book, she's nine months old. So it's just also about that. You know, it's really hard to be a working parent, a um a mom in film. So part of it was me sort of acknowledging that side of it. But to me, on your own terms, it's like you get to decide what your what kind of environment you want to create, you know, how you want to run your set, how you want to, you know, bring your project into the world. It can be very empowering. It can be scary for sure, like, oh, I don't have the budget I need from the start, and who am I gonna hire and how am I gonna piece this together? But if you really harness that into feeling empowered, that you get to create your own work environment, you get to create your own project and raise your own money and decide how that money is spent and you know, choose what lens to use and what question to ask and what music to put under that clip. Like I just love the whole process of making a film, even at its worst, I still wouldn't trade it for any other career. Do I wish it was a little smoother at times and I had more money to make my projects? Of course. But I think for me, on my own terms, means this is a story I want to tell, and I'm gonna figure out how to tell it. Um, whether I have to, you know, take side gigs and to keep the lights on, you know, I'm I'm working many jobs and projects at once to keep all the trains moving forward. Um, but for you, it's it's how do you want to conduct yourself in the world? How what kind of stories do you want to tell and how do you want to tell them? And that to me is on your own terms, you know, raising money and figuring out how best to spend it. It very much is like a startup. Think of yourself as an entrepreneur because in this case, you really are. You know, what's really the difference between raising money for a startup and hiring, you know, staff and creating an app or a product? I mean, it's very much the same, although this is art, you know, this is something that can change the world and change hearts and minds. So I would just use that phrase on your own terms, however it best serves you. But to me, it means so many things, whether it's how I live my life as a woman, as a mother, um, as a filmmaker, how I conduct myself as a leader, um, how I spend the money that I raise on the films I want to make and the stories I want to tell. Um, it can just be a very, very empowering process.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Wow. Thank you so much, Sarah. Now tell us again how we can find you.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Sure. If anyone wants to get a hold of me on Instagram, my handle is at Sarah Moshman, S-A-R-A-H, M-O-S-H-M-A-N, and my website is Sarah Moshman.com. Lots of stuff to find on the website, including contact me to set up a consulting session, buy my book, watch one of my workshops, watch the trailers for my movies, whatever you need. It's a one-stop shop. Um, also on LinkedIn. But yeah, get in touch. I'm happy to set up consulting sessions with filmmakers and really talk through strategy no matter what phase of your project that you're in.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Wow, that's exactly what we need here, Sarah. Thank you so much. And Claire, I appreciate you. Thank you for hosting the show.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Yes, always, always an honor.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Thank you for a wonderful interview. Sarah, we just have learned so much and best of luck with your new film.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Be well, everyone.