From Script to Panels: Turning Your Screenplay into a Comic Book

Tony Panaccio is a 36-year media veteran, having started his career in the 1980s as a newspaper journalist for The Clearwater Sun, The Tampa Tribune and others. He later shifted his career into public relations with video game producer Capstone, where he also scripted many of their games, including William Shatner’s TekWar. During that period, he was also Shatner’s publicist for his various video game projects. Today, he is the CEO of Victory Comics, a startup in the contract publishing space.

Victory’s COO, Jan Utstein is an internationally award-winning Producer and Editor-in-Chief of Hurricane Entertainment. She has produced numerous comic books and graphic novels through Image Comics, IDW Publishing and CrossGen Entertainment, boasting over 2.3 million dollars in sales worldwide.

Utstein was Editor-in-Chief of all of Hurricane’s titles, including “Violent Messiahs”, which earned nominations for every major award in the comics industry including the Harvey Award, Wizard Fan Award, and the Eisner’s Russ Manning Award. While at Hurricane, she also partnered with entertainment luminaries such as 4 time Academy Award winner Star War’s Ben Burtt on their title “Chassis” and Kurt Russell, Debra Hill and John Carpenter on the title “Snake Plissken Chronicles”. 

She spent 8 years at Marvel Studios with Production Accounting credits on all productions including but not limited to - Film: Avengers Infinity War & Endgame, Black Panther 1&2, Black Widow, Thor: Ragnarök, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol II & III, Doctor Strange 1&2 - TV: Wanda Vision, Loki, Moon Knight, Hawkeye, Werewolf at Night and Animation: What If…?, and I am Groot. Her other studio credits include Warner Bros.’ Demolition Man, Columbia Picture’s Green Hornet, and DreamWorks Studios’ Cowboys & Aliens, as well as Steven Spielberg’s Lincoln. Utstein also worked in the DreamWorks Production Finance department. Educationally, Utstein earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Theater from Binghamton University. She was granted a full scholarship towards a Master of Fine Arts from UCLA School of Theater, Film, Television & Animation. 

Born into a family of Accountants finance is in her blood. Utstein's dedication to the entertainment industry is evident through a track record of successful projects and a commitment to continuous learning and growth.

As a Producer, she has developed both film and TV series with Madonna's Maverick Entertainment, The Jim Henson Company, and The Pitt Group. Her producing credits include the Internet TV series Payday, based on hit video game
"Payday 2"; 35 Days of Kevin Eastman a documentary on the co-creator of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles; the multi-award-winning Cinemascope feature film Valhalla; and as a partner in 88 Tranzmedia - Agent 88, which garnered worldwide press, including the front page of the LA Times.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'm Carol Dean, president of From the Heart. Join us and learn how filmmakers are using comic books to fund their films.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

We have two special guests today, Tony Pinocchio. He's a 36-year-old media veteran having started his career in the 1980s as a newspaper journalist for the Clearwater Sun, the Tampa Tribune, and others. In 1989, Tony won the Florida Press Club Award for his eyewitness coverage of the execution of serial killer Ted Bundy, which is also where he met future agency colleague John Wilson. He later shifted his career into public relations, video game producer Capstone, with that producer, where he also scripted many of their games, including William Shatner's Tech War. During that period, he was also Shatner's publicist for his various video game projects. Today, Tony is the CEO of Victory Comics, a startup in the contract publishing space. Victory's COO, Jan Ootstein, is internationally award-winning producer and editor-in-chief of Hurricane Entertainment. She's produced numerous comic books and graphic novels through Image Comics, IDW Publishing, and Gross Gen Entertainment, boasting over $2.3 million in sales worldwide. Jan was editor-in-chief of all of Hurricane's titles, including Violent Messiahs, which earned nominations for every major award in the comics. She spent eight years at Marvel Studios Groot. Her other studio credits include Warner Brothers Demolition Man, Columbia Pictures Green Hornet, and DreamWork Studios Cowboys and Aliens, as well as Steven Spielberg's Lincoln. And Carol Tony and Jan have a lot to teach us about turning your screenplay into a comic book.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

That's true, Claire. This is all new and exciting ways for writers to expand. So thank you both for joining us. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

We're happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

We're going to have a lot of fun and learn a lot. So let's get started and cover story adaptation and creative process. Now, from screenway, screenplay to panels. Jan, what do you think are the biggest differences between writing a screenplay and writing a comic book script? And how does that storytelling change when you go from film to comics?

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Well, the main difference first, just first and foremost, is um the actual script itself. When you write a script for uh for film, you're writing uh moments, you're writing the dialogue and so forth. When you're writing for comics, you're actually writing a page at a time and you're breaking it down into panel by panel. Um so just the formatting of the scripts themselves is uh is very different. Um they're unlike the film industry, where there's a specific format that people use. In the comic book industry, there are formats that are preferred by people, but there's no actual, actual, you need to use this. It uh differs a little bit from writer to writer. Um the biggest difference to know though, in the actual writing is that when you're writing for comics, you have to write key moments. When you're writing for a script, you are writing entire uh visuals. So, you know, somebody what I like using as an example is um Joe gets out of bed, he walks to the sink, he um looks down, he turns the water on. You know, all of these things will be happening in a screenplay, but in the comics, you'll have a panel with him waking up, and then the next panel he is standing at the sink. There's no him walking from one to the other. So it really is picking those key moments that tell the story without going into all of the specifics.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

And it has to be a very small amount of dialogue, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Well, it depends on the writer. Uh, Tony, Tony can back me up on this. Um, there are writers who are incredibly verbose, and then there are ones that just write um, you know, as as little dialogue as possible. You when um when the artist is drawing the page, they know what the dialogue is going to be. So if they're doing their job right, they will be they will leave room for the word balloons. So you actually could have a lot of dialogue. You just try not to. Um, the amount of dialogue will also depict um your timing. So if you want people to spend more time on a panel, you can write more dialogue. And then as they move to the next panel, there might be just one word, and that's because you want them to get through quickly. So it really is not just about what's being said, um, it's again about timing.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Okay. Well, because screenplays rely on descriptions for cinematographers, uh, but comics require the writer to think in panels and turn pages. So, how do you translate a film scene into an engaging comic book sequence?

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Yeah, so the thing that you don't see um when you're reading a comic is that when the script is created, there is a large, sometimes, sometimes small paragraph describing exactly what is in the panel. And instead of seeing that in movement, like you would in a screenplay, you are seeing that as depicted by the artist. Now, there are different ways of working, but my favorite way is for the writer to sit with the artist and do thumbnails of each and every panel. This way the writer is sure that whatever he's trying or she is trying to say is uh said visually, and the uh artist is not sort of working in the dark. They know that they're giving the writer what the writer not only wants but needs, because as you know pointed out, there's not a lot of information. You know, a lot can be said though, if the artist is good, a lot can be said by you know how their eyes are or the movement of a hand, uh, or not movement, I'm sorry, gesture of a hand. So a lot of again, a lot of things that would be done in movement in a screenplay, it's going to be done in a still frame. Think of it as storyboards, that's the best way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yes, storyboards, absolutely. Yes, I was watching the Kurosawa uh life story told by his daughter, a documentary about him, and his art is exemplary. He was such a good artist, and they was uh, and you could go from one of his storyboards right to the actual film actually the film, and there it was, it was alive in the film.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

So you know, um many years I worked uh with uh Stan Lee, and uh I was at the uh the launch of the Spider-Man ride at Universal with Stan, and uh the first ride uh had Stan in the front row and sitting next to him was Steven Spielberg. So after the ride, I cornered Spielberg and got about 20 minutes of him on tape, and all he talked about was the incredible debt that filmmakers owe to comic book creators because uh, in Spielberg's words, they taught us how to tell stories.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Wow, how brilliant! Of course they did. If you can tell a story with a few pictures and minimum words, you're a good storyteller.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Yeah. They said that Hitchcock would storyboard his films to a degree that when it actually came time to shoot it, he was kind of bored because all the excitement went on the storyboard pages.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Exactly, exactly. That's exactly right. Um so, all right, so it's dialogue and narrative flow. That's the thing, Jan. So comic book dialogue is limited compared to film. So, how do you adapt a screenplay dialogue to fit the comic book and keep it natural? This is up to the writer to just take a whole scene and put it into a few words.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Well, again, it's that collaborative effort. And it's why I really, whenever I'm um giving any kind of uh advice, you know, doing any kind of consultation, one of the things that I stress is don't just take the script and hand it to your artist. Have your artist and your writer as much as possible in the same room, sitting at a table, um, preferably a drafting table, so that it's it's nice and you know, angled up, where as the artist does those thumbnails, the writer can give their input into how why it either is or isn't working. And it's it's just so important. If you think of the writer and the artist as sort of the directors of the comic, because there really is no person that could be labeled the director, you know, and the editor as well. Um, as an editor, I usually allow my artist and my writer time alone to do that because it's such a creative collaboration that I really feel that it needs to be a natural flow between the two of them in order to get the best possible story that you can.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Um, should producers turn their scripts into a one-shot or a limited series or an ongoing comic? Which factors uh should they consider when they just uh making a decision on the best format?

SPEAKER_03 10:55

Yeah, so there's a lot of um there's a lot of possibilities, but I like taking a screenplay, taking the first act, turning that into issue one, taking the second act, and turning that issue issues two and three, and then act uh act three and whatever might come after, depending on the screenplay, um, is issue number four. And I find that the pacing on the comic is best when um it's adapted in that way. So I'm very much for four issue. Now, for issue meaning 22 to 24 pages of art and story per issue. However, you can do that as a graphic novel um so that it's done all in one. A lot depends on finances, a lot depends on whether or not you're taking that screenplay, turning it into a comic for the purpose of pitching versus turning it into a comic um for the purpose of um uh selling on the open market. So it really you have to ask yourself first and foremost, what do I want to do with this comic? Um, where is it going? Uh is it going to be used as a marketing tool, which is Tony's um department, or is it going to be something that we're gonna try and sell? Most screen writers, what they'll end up doing is taking their first chap, their first um act and doing that first comic so that they have something to whet the appetite of producers. Now, if you're a producer and you have the funds, I recommend doing and the time, I recommend doing a um small graphic novel and putting it all in one story.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

And keeping in mind, you know, let's go back to the 1970s. Uh George Lucas uh kind of pioneered the idea of using the comic book format to introduce new intellectual property to the marketplace. Uh, before Star Wars came out, uh, except for the people who saw the trailer, nobody knew what it was, uh, nor did they care. Uh so Lucas approached an editor at Marvel Comics named Roy Thomas and did a deal. Uh, and they put out uh two tabloid-sized editions of a Star Wars comic that was literally the script translated into comic book form. So the entire story of the movie of Star Wars was released in comic book form a month before the film hit the theaters. So this was distributed uh through uh uh your typical comic book uh venues at the time in the 1970s were convenience stores, you know, pharmacies where you had the spinner racks. So uh by the time the film came out, millions of people had experienced what Star Wars was and they went to see the film, even though they knew the story. There was no internet back then, so there was no sense of, oh, there's spoilers in here. They wanted to seed the marketplace and say, this is some interesting IP, take a look at this. And by making people aware of the IP and the film, there were lines around the block when Star Wars opened. And you combine that with the trailers and the other marketing, and it created a massive impact on the marketplace. Uh, so if you're a filmmaker and you have something, uh uh it doesn't matter the genre. It doesn't have to be science fiction or superheroes. Uh, it could be any genre. If you want to introduce that IP, you can introduce it through a graphic novel. There are many, many films that were uh originally originated as graphic novels that people don't realize. Films like The Road to Perdition, uh Vigo Mortensen's uh The History of Violence, uh Johnny Depp's From Hell. All of these were graphic novels before they were films, and they became films because the marketplace liked the IP and wanted to see it uh translated into film.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

That's fascinating. Thank you so much, Tony. Um well, what about um you were talking about pitching, using this comic book technique to pitch a film. I've never heard of that. Can you expand on it?

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Yeah, so you know, um, if you're a screenwriter, especially if you're a screenwriter who doesn't quite have representation yet, um, you can't just send your script to people. Right. You can't do that. Legally, they can't take it. However, if you've created a comic book and the comic book has been sold uh anywhere, comic book stores, sold online, it is considered a um copyrighted uh story. And because it's already out there, production companies will take it faster than I would ever take just a screenplay. Um, as a comic book publisher, it's a lot easier for me to call a producer, to call a company and say, I have a new comic book, I would love to send it to you, or I would love to pitch it to you. Now, whenever possible, I pitch in person. Sometimes you don't get that uh ability, but you can send it, whereas with a screenplay, they will not take it. And if they do take it, you're gonna have to sign all kinds of waivers and so forth. Yeah, with a copy written um anything, book, comic book, you don't have to worry. And more importantly, they don't have to worry about it, they don't have to worry about being sued. It is something that's already out there, so it does make life easier. And it doesn't mean you can make a comic in your basement, so to speak, and then say, oh, look, it's it it exists, therefore, you know, uh you don't have to worry. It does have to be sold in order for um, you know, again, whether it's online or in a store, um, there has to be some kind of commerce in order for it to be something safe for the producers uh to read and to look at.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Okay, Jen, you mentioned something about uh giving consultations. Do you guide people through this process?

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah, um recently I had a book that was based on a rock band and uh was turned into a um sort of um horror book, uh, you know, vampires, zombies, and so forth. So I advised them on everything from what kind of budget to expect to how to find um the art uh team. A comic book, much like a film, is not done by one or two people. You need an artist, you need an editor, which is a lot more important than most people think. Uh, you need a good editor, somebody who can guide the entire process. So you need artist, editor, writer, of course, starts with the writer. Um, you need an inker. Um, you can do digital inking, but you still need someone who can do that. Uh, you need a letterer if you're going to be doing your book in color, which I advise doing whenever possible, if uh budget allows. Um, so you need some to do coloring, and then you need people to do the pre-press and production work of actually putting the book together, doing your logos and your titles and um, you know, just all of the uh um credit pages, things like that. So you need to put a team together.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

And and I would like to add something to that. Um uh and Carol, I don't have to tell you this, but uh film investors uh uh are uh an incredibly persnickety uh and uh they're very uh about mitigation of risk and and they fear everything. Yeah. The one way, the one surefire way to get an investor fired up to put money into your project is to get them inspired. And you can have the best pitch deck and you can have a really solid script, uh, but those things are difficult for individuals to digest, uh especially if they're not filmmakers in the creative space. But an investor can pick up a comic book and look at the visuals and visualize the world that the story is in, see the characters, see the way uh that the characters would look on camera, see the situations, and gain inspiration for that project through the comic.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Absolutely. That makes so much sense because this is a visual world, and uh and this is a great visual medium. So, yes, from a comic book, you would get the essence really fast and the energy of the characters, but through a good artist, exactly as you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

When I was at uh cross-gen uh entertainment, uh we had a uh a comic book uh publisher uh uh at the in the third year uh when uh Disney bought the company, we had 17 titles out. And we had an overhead deal with a producer named Michael Euslin, who you know obviously as the executive producer of the Batman franchise with Warner's. And uh through our overhead deal, he would arrange meetings for us with filmmakers. And so we would take the comics before they were published and print up mock-ups, and we would go to meetings in LA uh with Luminaries, and over the course of a year, we made deals uh uh with Robert Zemekis, Wes Craven, uh Larry Kasinoff. Uh, we had screenwriters like Bob Gale uh writing scripts for us, uh Chuck Russell, Frank Derabont, all from the energy that they got from the comics. So it's not just about, hey, the investors will be inspired by this. We got incredible production talent on board because they loved what they saw on the page.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Yeah, and it goes back to what you had asked earlier, which is, you know, well, uh what type of book should a producer uh think of doing? It really depends on what they want to do with it. If you just want to whet the appetite of people, um, it's a little bit different. You don't have to deal with publishers and you don't have to deal with getting it, you know, out um in comic book stores and so forth if you're strictly using it as a tool to get people to um read your screenplay. People don't like reading screenplays as much as they enjoy reading comic books, it's just that simple. Yeah. So hand them a comic and they will read it that night. Hand them a script. You don't know.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Could be weeks, exactly, and they this is the fear that they won't read it, they'll have someone else read it who is the no man, we call it absolutely, absolutely, and there's a long, long history of comics uh in film, and as a consequence of that.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

A lot of today's filmmakers grew up on the medium. Uslin did a meeting with uh Sam Raimi uh during uh the the heydays when he was uh directing the Spider-Man films. Uh and uh the pitch was uh a shadow, uh a new uh movie reboot of the pulp character The Shadow. And Michael didn't have a script, but in the 1960s, Michael wrote for DC Comics and he wrote an eight-issue series based on the shadow. So he brought the comics with him to the meeting, and he was walking Sam through the store through the story, and he was trying to get Sam to open up the comics, open up the comics, and Sam wouldn't do it. And finally, Michael said, Will you just please open the comics? And Sam said, Do you think that I don't know what these comics were? Sam reaches into his bag, pulls out all eight of the issues, and they were signed by Michael because when Sam was a kid, he went to a comic book convention, met Michael, and Michael signed the comic books for him. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so you have a generation of film producers and directors who literally grew up in the medium, and not to go full meta on this in the 1930s and 40s, the premier studios and comics were Simon and Kirby, uh Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, who worked primarily with Marvel and Timely Comics, and the Eisner Iger studios. Uh Eisner Iger Studios uh produced comics uh like The Spirit and Plastic Man, and uh they were they did the other half of the comics that were being published. Well, uh Jerry Iger, uh who uh uh was uh one partner is the great-granduncle of Bob Iger, the current chairman of Disney. Uh and Will Eisner, uh for whom uh the Oscars in the comics industry are named, uh the Eisners, uh, is the great-granduncle of Michael Eisner, the former chairman of Disney. When Iger bought Marvel, he he made the statement that he felt it was almost like a birthright that Disney needed to be a part of that because of the generational connection he had to those comics.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Exactly. How interesting. Well, now let's talk about budgeting for both of you. Budgeting for comics. So, how does the cost of producing a comic compare to making an indie film? And what should producers know about budgeting?

SPEAKER_03 24:27

So when you put together a budget, and I've put together a lot of budgets for everything from films to you know to TV to comic books, um, you know, a lot is dependent on uh who you are going to and not going to pay. So as a writer, if this is your baby and you're spearheading it, maybe you don't pay yourself. So that line can go to zero. If you know you're partnering with an artist who's a buddy, you know, maybe that's also somebody who is going to co-own and so forth. I believe in paying everybody, at least paying them something, even if it's somebody that's you know owning a portion of it. Um, but if you do pay everybody, it's all work for hire and you still own your IP. And the end of the day, that's what it's all about. So unless you want to team with somebody and uh make them a partner, um you will have to you will have to pay everybody. Um, I generally tell people to figure, and and this is a little rough, but to figure a minimum or about uh $25,000 per 22 to 24 page book. And that is not including printing. That is just to get the book made. So if you're going to do a graphic novel and it's four issues long, it's going to be somewhere around 100 to 150,000, depending. But if you're looking at an indie film, you know, it's a fraction of what you would spend um, you know, on putting a film together. You can also uh do it in less uh pages. Every page is a page rate for your entire team. So it really starts with the script and how many pages you're going to do. But $25,000 for a 24-page book is what I usually tell people as an estimate. And again, that's not including printing. And printing varies depending on whether you're doing a color book versus a black and white book and the number of issues you're going to um print. So copies, I mean you're going to print. There's some American local, local, as in here in the United States printers that specialize in doing small runs. For the first time ever, I printed a book that um my partner William O'Neill created. Uh, it's called Vexed, a Dick from Outer Space. And we did it strictly for the purpose of having it as a leave behind and pitching it. And we just did it in black and white. We decided not to go color to save money on it and went to a printer that could print only 250 copies of it. I've never done that. I've never printed less than 15,000 at a time and uh you know upwards from there. But you can print low. You can also, if you really want to save money on printing, you could go PDF and uh email, but there's nothing like handing it to somebody, handing them a comic book, and letting them feel and touch those pages, it's just not the same as a PDF. So even if you're just going to print a small amount, I always recommend printing some.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

And here's a little trick if you're an indie, if you're an indie filmmaker and you're in the process of uh pitching for investment, uh getting your your capital funding. Uh, if if your uh film is 2 million, 3 million, 4 million, 5 million uh for your full capital raise, you can build the cost of the comic book into your marketing budget because it is a marketing tool. And if you build that into your film funding, now your comic book becomes revenue uh uh uh neutral. Uh you don't have to make money on the comic, you don't have to sell it in order to create it and produce it. And then if you do wind up doing a print run and getting into the marketplace, that's all gravy. But the main reason for the comic book is to be able to uh uh attract talent uh and uh get the IP out into the marketplace so people understand that it exists. So you can build the cost of the creation of the comic book and the first print run into your film budget so that you don't have to raise that money separately. And as a marketing line item, uh if it generates revenue, great. If you lose money on it, uh that's fine too, because the purpose of it is to get it in the marketplace and also to generate the press. The media landscape in comics today is uh vastly different than it was even 10 years ago, uh, because comic books used to be this niche thing that in the comic book nerds and they had the comic book websites. Well, now Daily Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Deadline.com, Forbes, New York Times, all of the major trades, all of the major mainstream media all have reporters whose beats are the comic book industry. So when a new comic book comes out from any publisher, you can read about it not just on the comic book websites, but you can read about it on Reuters. So the press bump you get for your film, because if you're launching a film and you want that opening weekend, you have to have a high level of awareness. Take advantage of that new phalanx, that new army of media who love covering comic books.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

That's marvelous. What a great idea, Tony.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

And I published a book called John Carpenter's Snake Pliskan Chronicles, and it was in partnership with John Carpenter, Deborah Hill, the late Deborah Hill, who was amazing, and Kurt Russell. And CrossGen. And at yes, at CrossGen, at CrossGen, and Hurricane Entertainment. Um, and when we published the book, um initially it was the idea of our agent at the time. He uh had an idea of taking the property uh Escape from New York, which really had had nothing since the film came out. Um, there was no no games, no comics, no IP, I mean um merchandise, there was nothing. And they came up with this master plan, but it all started with doing the comic book. And we got unbelievable press, including the front page, excuse me, the front page of the um, I think it was the Hollywood Reporter, uh, with our art.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

It was HR, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Yeah, it was, yeah. And um, you know, not every book that comes out, of course, is going to get that kind of coverage. However, just like putting together a film, if you have the right people connected, if you, you know, maybe have talent beforehand. And this is nothing I've necessarily done, but if you have a new property and you have an actor attached, you know, maybe when you make your comic, your artist draws that character as the actor. Yeah. So let's say you had Kurt Russell attached to a brand new uh film. He's already said, you know what, I love this, I'm gonna do it. So when your artist draws, your artist is not just drawing that character, it's drawing Kurt Russell as that character. It helps to get more press on it if you have, of course, a name uh attached, as anything else. Not that you have to, it's just, you know, it's that little thing that helps it get a little more traction.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Oh, I bet it does.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

There's a great chicken or the egg story uh revolving around uh the character of Nick Fury, uh the Samuel L. Jackson character in the Marvel films, uh, because uh there was a point in Marvel where they uh created a separate universe of characters where they reimagined all their original IP. And the artist for that uh series, Brian Hitch, had an idea and he called up his editor and he said, Look, I want to reimagine Nick Fury, not as an old white guy, but as basically a Samuel L. Jackson. I just I want to use his face on this character. Uh, can we is there a way we can arrange it? And agents were called and so forth. But Sam Jackson is an incredible comic book fan. He gets his comics from uh Ryan Leibowitz's uh Golden Apple comics in LA. They have a secret back door where all the movie stars come in. Keanu Reeves goes there, Robin Williams used to go there, and Sam heard about it. He says, Hell yeah, I'd love to do that. So they created the comic book version of Nick Fury years before the Marvel Cinematic Universe even existed. So when the time came to cast Nick Fury in the Iron Man and Avengers movies, it was a no-brainer. They just went with Sam Jackson because the character already looks like him.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Exactly. Oh my gosh, this is a whole new world. Because, like you're saying, 100 to 150,000 as part of your pre-production money to make this comic and raise the money, that's nothing.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah, exactly. If you're just doing a comic, it's a it's a hard push up the hill. But if it's in tandem with a film project, investors are like, oh, that's that's easy money, that's a great investment.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Yes, yes, this would sell faster. But one question I have that is the 25,000 for 24 pages. Is this black and white or color? That's color. That's color. Good. Okay, fine. And it does. That stands well. Uh, because that is really uh all you would have to have that instead of a deck could sell faster. I can see that happen.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

And and I will uh admit uh, but not admit that um in my years as an as a publisher, um, there have been a few properties that I've pitched with just pages saying this is a comic book that's coming. Um you know, yeah. Because once once you have a reputation as actually making comics, sometimes you don't have to make the whole book in order for a producer to take a look at it. Um, but you can't do that right out of the gate. But but I have done it uh a couple of times, not too many.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

Right. Okay, well, um Tony, because uh comics have such passionate fan communities, tell us how a filmmaker can tap into these communities to generate the buzz they need for their adaptation.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Well, once you have the adaptation and you get it into the marketplace, uh there is the convention circuit. Um unlike the film industry, where you basically have four or five main places that are marketplaces for film, you know, Cannes, uh South by Southwest, uh AFM, and so forth. Comic book conventions take place in every major market all throughout the year. In fact, Jan's preparing right now for WonderCon in Anaheim, California. Yep. Yeah. So when you go on that circuit, you do panel discussions, it gets the fans you know geared up. And then they can go right to your exhibit table and buy the comic after your panel.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Oh my gosh, of course. You said it's WonderCon.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

WonderCon, and it's in Anaheim, uh, not this weekend, but next weekend. And um, it everybody at this point has heard of the San Diego Comic-Con. It's it's the big one. Uh San Diego Comic-Con has approximately 160,000 attendees. It's a very large convention. WonderCon is run by the same company, but has about 50 to 60,000 attendees. Uh, so the beauty of of WonderCon is you can talk to people more easily because there's it's not as busy as uh San Diego. It also is uh not quite as expensive to go there, and you can get passes very easily. Whereas in for San Diego, I think they sell out in about 10 to 15 minutes. Um crazy. The really crazy thing is over 25 years ago, when I began in the industry in the comic book industry, um, I would tell people I'm going to San Diego for the weekend or for the week for convention, and they'd say, What is that? What and I'd say Comic-Con, and they're like, Oh, I've never heard of it. And then a couple of years later, I mentioned that I was going again, and people were like, Oh, I saw it on the news. And I, you know, and so, and then a couple of years later, it was, are you going to San Diego? I know it's this weekend, you know. So that's changed so much over the years. And now, of course, it's can you get me a pass? I can't get in.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

You know, yes, this is the biggest thing going now, right?

unknown 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

And you have uh shows like uh Jimmy Kimmel and Conan O'Brien have done their shows live from the Comic-Con show floor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

It's become a massive pop culture machine.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Yeah, yeah, that's the best advertisement they could ever have.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

But I do recommend for people who are just kind of you know dipping their toe in and want to learn something about the industry to start with the smaller conventions. Pretty much every uh city has at least a small convention in you know a local hotel. And you get to meet creators. Um, you can speak to people very easily at those shows. You can learn uh a lot at those shows, you can speak to writers. Uh when it comes to the bigger shows, again, people are just too busy. Um, so I not that I'm saying don't go to Comic-Con if you can get a pass. You definitely should. It's something everybody needs to experience at least once. Um, but it's to do business there, it's more difficult because of the number of people that are there.

unknown 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

When I was a cross-gen, we would spend uh we had a 40 by 40 booth out at Comic-Con uh in San Diego, and we would set up meetings uh during the week, and I'd have press planted the week before Comic-Con in uh the LA Times and and the Hollywood trades. And then I'd have to spend a week after Comic-Con to do all the follow-up meetings because you really can't do a deal at Comic-Con. There's just way too much going on and way too much to see. So if you're going to go to Comic-Con as a means by which to promote a film or promote a comic that you want to turn into a film, uh plan to spend an extra week out there to do your follow-up meetings uh on the ground so that you can actually leave uh uh California with a deal in your hands.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Oh, that's good advice. Thank you. Well, this is uh the question now is selling to publishers or self-publishing. So should filmmakers pitch their comics to publishers like Dark Hearts or IDW? Or do you recommend self-publishing?

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Uh, that's it's a very good question and um not an easy one to answer. Um the you can get your book published. There's a lot of competition right now um to get in with established publishers. Image Comics is an amazing place to publish because you own everything. They do not take a piece of your IP at all. And because of that, as the uh notoriety of the industry and people knowing about the industry has grown, so has the um uh the stack that uh Eric Stevenson uh has to read. So it it could be months and months and months before they even look at whatever you send in. Um and there is uh on their website that's Image Comics, there are guidelines of what exactly they're looking for to pitch a book. But if you want to do something in your own timeline where you're in control of when the book gets made and when it's ready to show to the public, I would recommend doing it on your own if you have the finances to do it. Um, and again, you need to ask yourself do I want to sell it online? Do I want to try to get it into comic book stores? Um, you know, where exactly do I want to sell it? More and more of the comic book creators, people who are writers and artists and so forth, they're just taking into their own hands and they're going to Kickstarter or to some of the other um, you know, companies that help raise funds, mainly Kickstarter, and they are doing campaigns and some of them have a fan base, some don't. Um, if you could connect yourself with right with artists who already have a following, you can more easily get the word out based on the um fan base of you know of those um artists. So that is something that I recommend. If you can afford to get artists with a fan base, go for that. It's gonna help for everything. Um, you know, Kickstart is not for everybody, but it is a way to both market your property and raise money to publish it. So it kind of serves as a little bit of both. However, it's not uh it's a gamble. It's a gamble. So it doesn't mean you're 100% going to raise the money to do it. And again, if you're dealing with established artists and so forth, you have a better chance. Um you can also do your book online. One of the one of the best ways I've seen people do it is um there are people who have a following online and they will let um like one page a week they'll upload for people to read. And by the time they get to somewhere around page three or four, people are like, I I need more. I don't want to wait for this whole book to you know come free. So around that time you make it available for purchase.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

And oh, I see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

And I I think that is one of the most brilliant um ways of doing kind of a hybrid um of publishing it on your own, but also just you know putting it out there for free to people. I don't recommend doing the whole book for free, you know, definitely dangle the end so that people have to buy it if they want the full story. But um, but it is it is a good way to do it. Um, I'm not gonna lie, it is difficult right now to get publishers to publish your book. It's not impossible, but it is difficult. Um, but if you have, again, some sort of a hook, like um, you know, actors or a director attached or something, there's more of a chance of you going to the top of the pile as opposed to, you know, the bottom of the pile. And we're talking about writers who've never written for the comic book industry before. So they're Just going cold, uh, you know, to publishers. But definitely, if you can do just 10 pages, if you do want to go the publishing route and get a publisher, do about 10 pages fully um drawn, inked, preferably colored, but it doesn't have to be, and professionally lettered. That's like my biggest advice. If you go in and it's not professionally lettered, nobody's gonna look at it. They're gonna just look at you as um as an amateur. And so there are letters out there that you can hire um that are available. Uh actually, uh, Dave Lampier, who's one of the top letters in the industry, is our partner in uh Victory Comics. And you can go around with 10 pages to publishers and say, This is this is what my book is going to look like. Here is a uh synopsis of what it's about. And if they're interested and they like it enough, um, you know, they'll take it on. You don't have to have a finished book at first if you're gonna go to publishers. But again, it's a long shot. There's a few and fewer publishers out there, and there's um more and more people trying to make comics. So if you do it in on your own, I think right now is a little bit better than uh going to a publisher.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Okay. Yeah, Tony, we're we we'd like to know how people can reach the two of you to learn more about how to turn a script into a uh a comic book. So tell us how we can find you.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Yeah, so um I guess my email is the easiest way. I'm also um I'm on Facebook, um, I'm on LinkedIn, um, but my email address is Jan U O N26 at gmail.com. So it's just Jan U O N26. Um, I'm also known in the industry as Hurricane Jan. So if you Google Hurricane Jan, uh you may find uh find me. Um and on Facebook it's under Jan Ucstein. And uh my last name is spelt U. T is in Tom, S is in Sam, T is in Tom again, E-I N is in Nancy.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Okay, marvelous. Now, in closing, let's talk about the future of cross-media storytelling. Uh, because with the rise of transmedia storytelling, what do you think the future looks like for filmmakers who want to expand their stories into comics, games, and other media?

SPEAKER_03 46:44

I really believe that you should put together a deck of some kind that has um information on what your vision is for all of those cross for all cross-media. Now, not every screenplay is appropriate to do a video game, and not every screenplay, you know, is appropriate for all uh all platforms. But you know, if you're doing science fiction or fantasy, you know, that's that's a no-brainer. Um if you just sort of uh maybe do a one-sheet um on for your for what the film, you know, a film's uh poster would look like. I've done that many times, where I will do a mock-up of what uh, you know, of what the film poster would be. Um but uh Tony has Tony, this is a great question for you. He's done a number of decks for um for independent filmmakers, and in those decks you can definitely put here's information on what the game would look like and get an artist to do some artwork. Artwork just speaks a thousand words. Um and makes it more real. Yeah, it makes it look like it's real already, even though it hasn't been done.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

But also have a vision for how all the pieces fit together, because if you have uh intellectual property that's good for a movie, it's probably good for a comic book, it's probably good for a video game, it's probably good for a variety of interpretations, and you can take that original story that you have for your screenplay and expand it by having different elements of the story told through the different elements of IP uh uh uh proliferation. Um, a great example is what uh Warner's has done with uh uh a property that they call injustice, which is basically uh uh a different vision of the Justice League of America, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, in which Superman becomes uh a totalitarian uh dictator of Earth and the heroes split into two camps, you know, one that you know values freedom, the other that values order. And they originated that as uh uh as a video game. And then after the video game came out, they did a comic book on it. After the comic book came out, they did an animated film based on it uh that went straight to DVD and to streaming. So uh, and it's a story that's uh that's completely different from any other interpretation. Uh, if you have a comic book story uh or a film story, you can use different elements. For instance, if you have a film, you don't have to translate your screenplay into a comic book. You could do a comic book that's a prequel to your film. So you set up the origins of all of your characters so that when people go to see the film, A, they get a new story, but B, they have a sense of who these people are, who these characters are before they walk into the theater.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Yes. And that's what people that's what brings us in on those four or five uh series, uh, four or five-year series. We love the characters, so that's why we're there. So, yes, meeting your character ahead of time makes a lot of sense. If you like that character, you're gonna love the film. And you would want to donate or invest or help. That's very important. Well, thank you both. We would really love to do this again in a year, and let's see where the industry goes and how much comics take over.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Oh, absolutely. And and before we go, let me add my uh my contact info as well.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Oh, yes, please.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Uh I'm simply tonypina at gmail.com. Uh Tony, common spelling Pinaccio P as in Peter, A, and as in Nancy, C as in Charlie, C as in Charlie IO. It's all one word, no dots or dashes at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

And that will be on the site with the link for the program. We'll have both of your emails there. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Thank you very much, Claire, for helping. Oh, yes, as always, this was very enlightening. I learned more than I ever thought I could, and I'm sure there's a lot more to gain in your wisdom when we have you back on in about a year.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Yeah, thank you so much, Tony. Very kind of I know you're brilliant at marketing. And Jan, you you know your stuff because you do accounting as well as the producing.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

Yep. And if I could add, if anybody is going to be at WonderCon next weekend, um, look for the booth uh under uh our booth. It's under William O'Neill Gentleman Nerd. And that's my partner. Um, because we're not actively publishing right now, we sell his artwork. But I will be there. It's a nice corner booth in uh at WonderCon. Again, it's William O'Neill Gentleman Nerd.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Okay, we'll look for that. Thank you so much. Bye for now.