The Business of Indie Film: Funding, Packaging & Investor Secrets with Irina Chernikina

Irina Chernikina is a filmmaker with over two decades of experience in producing, directing, writing, and editing. She has led multiple projects from development through post-production, focusing on narrative filmmaking.

Her recent work includes directing and producing the comedy series Being Bossy (2021) and an ongoing anthology series Bedtime Stories (2020-), where she also served as writer and editor. In 2024 Irina produced two feature films - a thriller Smile Maker and a horror Legado. She is currently developing a comedy feature Bum Next Door, which has a pre-sale offer from Glass House Distribution, along with Knockout, a female-driven action film, and Circulus Initium, a sci-fi action series.

In addition to narrative projects, Irina has worked on commercials, music videos, and educational content. Her experience across multiple aspects of production allows her to efficiently manage and execute projects while maintaining a clear creative vision. She currently manages the Film Funding Group with her partners Matt Chassin and Randy Fabert.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:15

I'm Carol Dean with From the Heart Productions, and we're going to learn today how to build a strong film funding package.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Our special guest today is Irina Chernikina. She's a filmmaker with over two decades of experience in producing, directing, writing, and editing. She's led multiple projects from development through post-production, focusing on narrative filmmaking. Her recent work includes directing and producing the comedy series Being Bossy and on an ongoing anthology series, Bedtime Stories, where she also served as a writer and editor. In 2024, Irina produced two feature films: a thriller, Smile Maker, and a horror legato. She's currently developing a comedy feature, Bum Next Door, which has a pre-sale offer from Glasshouse Distribution, along with Knockout, a female-driven action film, and Circulus Inetium, a science fiction action series. In addition to narrative projects, she's worked on commercials, music videos, and educational content. Her experience across multiple aspects of production allows her to efficiently manage and execute projects while maintaining a clear creative vision. She currently manages the film funding group with her partners Matt Chasen and Randy Faubert. And Carol, Irina has created an important filmmaking class as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yes, she has, Claire. Irina is dedicated to filmmaking and to supporting filmmakers. So thank you for joining us. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Thank you, Carol, for having me.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Well, let's get started with your story because you grew up in Moscow, where American films were banned, and yet you found a way to access them and learn from them. So how did those early experiences shape your passion for filmmaking?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yes, yes, I was born and raised uh during the Cold War in the Soviet Union, Soviet Moscow. But uh luckily my uh uncle was an avid uh film lover, and uh he was part of this underground exchange network uh where people were exchanging VHS tapes uh with uh American films uh that were at that time illegal uh in Soviet Union. And through him, I was exposed to a lot of uh science fiction, action films. So I was uh one of my favorite films was uh Original Alien, you know, strong female protagonist and such. And um, in addition, of course, you know, I was also uh raised on um uh classic uh Soviet cinema, um absolutely fantastic uh uh films, um uh French comedy, and uh Hong Kong action films as well. And um all of that combined right now is reflected uh in my work as a filmmaker as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Wow. Well, you originally pursued a career in medicine before moving to the USA and diving into film. That's really quite a shift. So tell us what the turning point was that made you follow your heart and go into filmmaking.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Um well, at that time in uh uh Russia, you know, and I think even nowadays, uh, things have improved. But uh there was a saying if your last name is not uh Michalkov, uh don't even try to go into film industry. It's a very close industry, impossible to break into unless you already have a connection or name recognition, basically. So I followed uh instead of following my heart, um, I followed my mind, you know. And uh medicine was one thing that was always uh required. So I went to medical school, uh, got a degree, uh, I'm a registered nurse. Um and then um soon after graduating, I got a job as a uh sales manager in a pharmaceutical company. Uh, was working pretty much from the time I was 18 years old. I graduated by 18. Um and then two years then I got an opportunity to come to the US. Uh so of course, you know, when I came here, um spoke no English language, um, started with the English second language uh from level zero. And uh first three years uh spent uh just uh doing that. And um eventually uh once I completed uh English second language courses, um I had to make a decision, you know, what to study next. I was in a student status, and uh that's when I make a decision to follow my heart. And uh I figured I'm in the capital of uh filmmaking, and if I don't follow my passion that I've been uh since I was a child, I will regret it for the rest of my life. So I switched to um uh majors. At first, I I think I was enrolled into programming, which again at that time was uh very needed um uh degree, easy to find a job, and I switched to film, never looked back.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Fabulous. Well, according to your bio, you've done it all. You've been directing, producing, writing, and editing. But the key is that you said that funding was the biggest mystery of all, even after 20 years in the industry. So tell us what was the biggest moment when you finally cracked the code on financing indie films.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Uh yes, uh 20 years in the industry, um, doing a lot of commercial work, um, and uh always uh self-funding my own personal projects. Uh when I went um to film school uh 20 years ago, nobody was teaching the business aspect of film business. We learned art, you know, the technique, uh, but we knew absolutely nothing about how actually the funding uh is provided for films. And um uh prior to the uh pandemic, uh I was involved with multiple car accidents. Uh so as the pandemic hit us and we were all in a lockdown and I was recovering uh from my injuries, I came across uh your course and uh from the heart, and you helped me to sign up for intentional filmmaking class, and that's when my eyes were open. For the first time in 20 years, I finally realized what the business side of the filmmaking um and uh uh from that point on um I kind of got better and better uh in uh uh packaging my projects, and that was the beginning, no going back. And um, of course, you know, with your help and Tom's help, uh I got my first uh pre-sale offer for a comedy feature, Bum next door.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yes, I remember that script and I love it. But the the key is that you were such a good student that in the intentional filmmaking class that Tom and I teach, we go through building your funding package. And it a lot starts with your uh with the project uh description, the return, the uh comparisons. There's so much to learn. And you're right, once you get that package figured out, you're on your way, and that's what we want to really learn more about today. So I know that you created uh in 2023 the film funding group to help filmmakers learn the business side of filmmaking. So, what was your motivation for starting the group, and what are your plans for the uh current information you're giving?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Well, once uh I had an aha moment and I realized, oh, that's how movies are being made, that's how you get uh funding for movies. And at that time I was also part of the uh NIWFT, uh New York Women in Film and Television. And um, what I've realized, I've been surrounded by other, you know, female-female makers primarily, and we all were like blind kittens bumping into each other, uh, trying to understand, you know, how to get the projects off the ground. So after taking a course, uh I realized, well, there was a lot more filmmakers like me. You know, it doesn't matter if you're a newbie or um experienced filmmaker, uh, the information is just simply not available there. So I decided to create a film funding group and um uh start sharing uh the knowledge that basically I acquired. Uh, with uh sharing useful videos, uh also encouraging uh filmmakers to share their crowdfunding campaigns. And um I would support those campaigns by um uh um putting uh everyone tag um on a by the way, it's on a Facebook uh group is uh based on a Facebook. Um and that's when I actually for the first time realized um uh that a lot of filmmakers don't quite want to support one another. That was surprising because I was hoping to build a platform for filmmakers to come together, join our forces, and uh a lot of filmmakers are very much uh self-centered, you know, they just uh want to work on their own projects. And um when I was everyone, uh they would get angry that I was disrupting their peace, I guess. Uh, even though technically Facebook only allows to do it once a day. Uh so that was an interesting uh revelation and angle in the filmmaking community, uh, per se. Um, but now it's been uh a couple years uh since uh the group. Um uh I started the group in 2023, and we grew to over 45,000 members. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

That's amazing. That is really amazing. So you learned how to overcome um the negativity and uh build a positive group to work forward with learning how to fund their film, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yes, yes. Um, I mean, one thing I do not respond uh to attacks and such. And when people would be uh complaining me bothering them, I would just remind them that um when they were ready to crowdfund their film, I would be there for them. You know, I would uh support uh their film as well, and you know, I would send that call to action and such. So little by little we got less and less uh angry members and more and more people who were actually supporting one another.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Good.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

And um it's yeah, it's a gradual process, yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Well, tell us what are some of the biggest mistakes that filmmakers make when they're looking for investors, and what do you wish more indie filmmakers understood about preparing for funding?

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Um, well, from my experience, and just to give you a little bit of background, uh so I started with packaging all of my uh projects and then um started collaborating with other filmmakers uh that I'm attached as a producer to packaging their projects as well, helping them getting noticed. And every time people would um producers, potential investors, we give a fantastic feedback on our packaging. Um, and now we have multiple projects um about to go into production. Um and simultaneously, as the uh group was growing, uh, we started getting a lot of scammers who were offering uh packaging services or financing services. Uh, not all of them were scammers, uh, some of them were uh real. Uh as a result, I was able to see what other people are doing, and I realized that uh what basically I have learned and implemented uh was um the real deal. You know, we're not uh obviously scumming anyone, and the packaging was really attractive, and the information included was a lot more professionally uh portrayed uh compared to some other uh packaging services that I came across of. And um in dealing with scummers in particular, that's what pushed me towards uh starting live sessions in a group so people could actually meet each other face to face and see you know who's the real deal, who's not. And as a gradual progression, uh I started inviting uh different uh producers, experienced uh people in the industry, sharing their knowledge, uh all with a focus on uh financing, working with investors, uh, and such. And little by little I got to the point offering my own services and packaging as well. And um that's kind of what gives you like a step-by-step progression to uh where I'm at right now.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Okay, so you're hosting a monthly educational workshop on film funding topics like crowdfunding, IP protection, working with fiscal sponsors, and investor relations. So let's go over a few key lessons from these workshops and share some of that info with us, please.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Uh yes, and I'm realizing I didn't answer your last question regarding what mistakes uh I see people make in uh packaging uh their projects. So I'm just gonna backtrack a little bit to that.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Um uh what actually packaging includes, uh right? Um a pitch deck and um uh a business plan that also includes uh a budget. And uh what I see a lot of times, uh a lot of people mix those two things together. Uh they create a pitch deck uh that uh technically is a business plan. Uh they include financial information, uh disclaimer, etc. etc. And that's a big no-no uh because of the I believe um the securities law in US, uh, that you cannot uh provide uh financial information to people unless you're asked to do so. So that's a one big mistake. Um regarding disclaimer, the whole purpose of the peach tech is to attract uh you know potential investors as well as producers, and producers in particular, in the US at least, uh legally um cannot um read any kind of uh unsolicited uh materials, screenplays and such. So the peach tech is really is the one um one thing that you can bypass the gatekeepers, basically, you know, to bypass uh people who read the screenplays, right? Because producers will not read your screenplay. Uh so the moment you put a disclaimer on the pitch deck, you're creating a blockage. The moment the producer uh opens your pitch decks, and the first thing they see is disclaimer, they're gonna close it. Uh so that's I think the one thing that I see over and over again that people uh mix uh those two um very important documents into one. Um, and uh of course, you know, I'm gonna talk a little bit more how I do things because I do things a little bit different uh after you know getting my own approach and such. Uh and I apologize if you could possibly uh repeat the last question one more time for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Sure. I want to know about uh some ideas that you have taught your people in your monthly educational workshop on film funding, things like crowdfunding, IP protection, fiscal sponsors, and investor relationships.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Uh yes, yes. Um I don't know if the very first uh workshop we have done with a producer um focusing on uh legal aspects of uh filmmaking, the importance of uh copywriting your work, um as well as um you know having some other contracts, even though I personally, in that regard, um always go to my attorney. I'm not an attorney myself, so I highly recommend filmmakers to find a wonderful, great uh entertainment attorney, and you will be a team for years to come. Uh, you know, don't try to take care of the legal aspects uh yourself, unless you are an attorney uh yourself, of course, uh just maybe in a different field. And I have friends uh who switched uh to film, uh, initially being attorneys uh thinking real estate or something. So there was also a possibility of that. Um then, of course, crowdfunding. Uh nowadays, uh, crowdfunding is um essential aspect to learn for all the filmmakers, because it's not just about getting the money, it's also about building your own community. Um, it's about you know getting comfortable uh with that reach. And it's a gradual process because crowdfunding campaigns take months to prepare. Um, of course, you know, working with fiscal sponsorships, and that's what I learned uh working with you and from the hard productions, Carol. Um, incredible uh advantage of working with the fiscal sponsors is that once you do get that money, including crowdfunding money, uh there is an opportunity uh for your uh supporters uh to get uh tax deductions. So people do not risk um you know in that investing, that's a wrong terminology. Investing is separate. Yeah, you cannot mix uh fiscal sponsorship and investment. But by supporting uh filmmakers, uh people just simply deduct uh that money from their uh taxes. And uh, when it comes to developing relationships with investors, at first people don't know you as a filmmaker. So by offering potential investors in the beginning uh to become your uh supporters and getting that money back builds trust because they're gonna see that they give you a small amount of money and you do the job, you maybe do a proof of concept or something like that. Um, and then the next step, uh they're gonna trust you with the larger amounts that you can actually make your documentary or feature film, uh, etc. etc. Uh, and of course, you know, the biggest uh challenge uh working with investors. Uh that's one area that um all filmmakers have always the same question comes up in our group as well. You know, is there any investors in the group? Uh and uh people don't realize that uh to develop relationship with investors, again, it's not overnight, uh, it takes time, uh, years sometimes. And uh each filmmaker has their own approach and a way to do things because it's also based on your project, you know, what the subject matter, you know, what kind of a people you're gonna uh connect with. Uh so it's all about building those personal relationships. And I think this is where uh most filmmakers also want to skip that step and they just simply ask um uh for the money, but they forget that uh there is a process involved there.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Exactly. The first thing when you start to talk to an investor or a donor, while you're talking, they're thinking, do I like this person? Do I trust this person? And um the psychologists say that people make up their mind in less than a minute, you have 30 seconds to win them over, to get them over this hump of liking you and trusting you. So this is the key thing, and and you have to be so comfortable with your film and confident that you can make the film because that comes through when you talk about it, right? Absolutely, absolutely, and the better your pitch and the uh the more information that you have about the film, and and it's your ability to pitch it with straight eye contact, uh, your posture is um of importance, how you hold yourself, how you sound is important. Uh it's what you say, how you look, how you sound. Those things are more important than what you say we have learned. All right.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Absolutely. I absolutely agree with you, Carol, because uh, from my experience, uh, once I packaged uh my projects and I had my first uh EFM experience when I was teaching to uh producers and such, it was a little shocking that. I got my pre-sale offer without the producer actually reading my script. It was all based on my presentation. And of course, you know, it doesn't mean that your screenplay cannot be uh worked on. I mean, you have to improve your script no matter what, um, because in the end, it's gonna be your responsibility to recoup that investment, right? So if it's not on the page, it's not gonna be on a screen. So of course, you know, the screenplay has to be um in a very, very good shape. Um, but what's fascinating is that you can get uh an offer and a deal just based on your presentation alone.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Well said, yes, that's the key, the trust uh factor. So um what I I think is really important that you're talking about uh the crowdfunding is true. It takes three months minimum, minimum, to to prepare for and start the crowdfunding. But the whole thing is about uh your finding your audience because uh in today's world with distribution the way it is and how hard it is to get into a theater, there are many markets that you can go after for your films, but the the secret is who's your audience? You need to know the demographics so that you know how to direct your film and uh edit it, and you can sell it that way, right? This is all important.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Um, absolutely. Yeah, nowadays you have to pretty much know who you're gonna distribute or sell, you know, who you are as you said, who your audience is during the development, uh, which is very challenging. Um, you know, you have to have a fairly clear idea of what you're gonna do with your project way, way ahead of time, way before you even uh approach investors, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Exactly. Okay, well, let's get into film packaging because this is the crucial step in getting funding. And many filmmakers just don't know where to start. So let's uh teach us or tell us how to break down what a strong film package should include.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Uh yes, so so I have a slightly different approach. Um, and again, because maybe I have an experience as a writer, director, producer, um, DP, and editor. So I understand the entire film production process. Um, so when I work uh with filmmakers, I start uh with the screenplay uh consultation. And uh my consultation is really focused uh more on uh formatting uh rather than art. Uh even though I'm great with structure, uh, that's uh in the high concepts. So if filmmakers do want to improve their screenplays, um I work with them in that regard as well. But my focus for packaging specifically is on formatting. And the reason for that is that um a lot of artists, filmmakers, they don't even realize that the screenplay is not just an art, it's also a technical document. A technical document uh that will be utilized by their team to shoot a film. So it has to be properly formatted in order to perform a proper uh breakdown of the script. And normally people do all those things in pre-production, but I do it uh in the packaging process for the following reasons. I believe that you cannot have a proper budget unless you have a proper uh schedule. And in order to create a proper schedule, you have to do a proper breakdown of the script. So it's a still like a domino effect, it's a step-by-step process. Uh so script breakdown first, uh, based on the breakdown, you have a schedule. Uh, from the schedule, you create a real budget, and that's essential. Uh, way too many times I have seen filmmakers um reaching out to like land producers, and obviously, land producers have already multiple budgets of different levels, and they just simply pull one of their I call them templates, they tell them, okay, I want to make this movie for like a million dollars, for example, and they already have a budget for a million dollars, and they just simply give them like a top shit for um maybe a lesser amount of money. Uh, because to do a proper budget, uh, lime producers usually charge anywhere between three to five thousand dollars and up, uh, depending on how big the budget is and how much work it involves. Um, so in my case, uh yes, I do it uh the right way. So your the project technically is production ready after I'm done packaging it. So let's say you go and uh meet with investors and um you get the money, uh, you can go into production with the documents that I provide. Uh of course, you know, AD will have to adjust the schedule and such, uh, which is always um an ongoing process uh regardless. Uh, but that's my approach. And of course, you know, the budget, then the top sheet of the budget included in a business plan. But of course, business plan is the most important aspect of the packaging because uh once you uh hook the potential investor with your pitch tech and your presentation, your verbal pitch, and then the pitch tech and then the uh screenplay, they will ask for numbers. Uh most investors are business people and they want to see how they're gonna recoup that investment. So the business plan uh involves uh includes um financial projections. Um, of course, you also have comparables, uh, you know, similar films, you know, how much similar films have made, and then uh we go into financial projections. And uh normally it would be an extensive process, you know, to find that information online, and of course, now with the industry changes, the box office failing. Um one big advantage is using uh larger AI to find such projections. Um one strong aspect uh is that they include uh the streamers' financial projections, which I tried finding online, it's just not there. No, I I don't know, maybe other companies offer similar services, but as far as I know, this is the only company where you can pull that information. And again, because the box office, uh traditional box office is falling, for investors, it's even more so important to see you know how much money realistically uh your specific project can make uh on the streaming services alone.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Right. This is really important because we know that the studios are using AI to make decisions. Uh, they're putting your screenplay into a uh program like Largo AI, and they're coming out with uh the results of the intensity of every scene. What works, what doesn't work, when uh when your energy falls off, it's all there, and you get graded. And uh so the secret is once you know that the studios are using this, you should use it, or that's my suggestion. Use something like Largo AI on your script, get feedback, fix it, and then go back and run it again. Because we work with people like that, as I know you are now. And it sometimes takes three times to get your very best results back, but just think of the improvement that you've made to your script through the electronic information that's not biased, it's not some guy who wishes that who is reading your script making personal observation. It's a computer that has stored some of the top screen plays in the world, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Uh yes, yes, that's another important aspect of large AI. Uh, yeah, my focus was on financials and such, but uh you know, I understand why some people uh feel maybe a little bit uncomfortable using AI and uh giving you know your script away in a sense, but the important thing is it's uh actually a locked system. Uh I mean I'm currently utilizing two systems that utilizing AI, um like larger one AI one, and the other one is Film U Stage, and they all have uh very high security standards. So your script is anywhere in the internet floating around uh for all these other random AIs uh you know to steal your work. No, they're actually very careful, and uh it's um also those this company's reputation is online. So it's gonna be very specific to this specific platform. And um with the larger in particular, from what I understand, now they're creating their own database. And what they're doing, they're connecting uh producers and filmmakers. So that's kind of a next step, and also actors, they have uh their own uh actor database. So I think this literally is the future, and we have to learn how to collaborate uh with AI because AI is here to stay, it's not going anywhere, and we just have to get used to the idea and uh take advantage of it because again, as far as the financial information in particular, um you just simply cannot find that information anywhere. You know, streamers are very careful about uh what they give every so often. They might give one piece of information for one particular movie or maybe one particular show, right? But um uh generally speaking, that information is completely uh locked, locked away.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Locked away. You're absolutely right. So now I want to uh respond to what you were saying about budgets. This is exactly what I'm teaching in the learn producing class, and we use Maureen Ryan's book, Producer to Producer. That is a great book for anyone making a film. So in there, it's all about she she starts with breakdown and budget, because you can't do a budget without a breakdown. You're absolutely right, those are the key things. Uh, I running the film grants that I do, Irina, I see people lose the grant when they have a fabulous concept or script, uh, but they can't figure out how to explain it, and their budget is so far out of line that it is ridiculous. You know, you might get a feature film with a$30,000 uh fee for post, and you think, where what planet are they on? You know, there is yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

I mean, I have seen some uh uh budgets that uh leave absolutely no money for uh things like marketing. A lot of independent filmmakers just forget about marketing altogether, or for example, uh your legal department, right? They completely underbudget that. Uh so yeah, there are so many different uh aspects um that uh you also need to understand and the difference between uh larger productions, uh studio productions versus uh indie productions. Um yeah, yeah, budgeting is definitely an art of its own.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

And you have to uh defend your budget. So you no longer can you say, Well, I'm the artist, you'll have to talk to someone else about the budget. No, if you're looking for money, you have to understand money. You have to, if I say to you, what why are you spending$20,000 on this cinematographer? And you have to say, because he's the best. You have to defend it, and you have to know all those prices. And I really think it's the old-fashioned way. You just pick up the phone and call. The your favorite people are people that are uh the camera uh rental place or the editing, you check with your editor, you get prices, and then you come up with a really believable budget. And forget this idea of having three budgets. Uh, you don't go to a uh an investor or a donor with three budgets because they spend a lot of time making money and they won't understand that, right? You need a budget that you know that you can make the film with.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Absolutely, yes. You have to have a real budget. Um, of course, you know, there's always uh, you know, might be a little bit of flexibility, uh, specifically with the bigger productions when you're gonna be attaching uh a-list actors. Uh so once you attach bigger names, of course, you know, at that point uh you might adjust the budget again during the pre-production stage. Uh so the you know, again, budget uh is a flexible thing. It might change a little bit, but uh at least the core budget will not change. Like, you know, what how much money you actually need to make your film. You know, above the line for the actors, yeah, that's one thing that can change. Unfortunately, um sometimes actors fall out of the project, right? You attach the project, you know, the the name actor to the project, and then maybe there is a scheduling conflict. So you're looking for uh replacement, and you might attract even a bigger name at that point. So there is a possibility that uh once you attach a really, really well-known actor in that stage, uh, usually uh finding an investor to just um fulfill that difference is not big of a challenge because uh any investor will understand that's uh that's a plus, right? That makes you stronger, you know, your project stronger. Uh, but again, it's not gonna change uh your core budget, you know, how much money you need for uh below the line, basically, you know, your crew, right? Your post-production, you know, your marketing budget, etc., etc. Those numbers uh gonna be pretty much uh locked in.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Right. Well, and and you talked about an attorney. For a film funding package, uh you really uh just need the attorney to uh make sure that your um disclaimer is correct. But basically, this a package should say we're just talking here. This is not an offer, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Uh yes, yes. And in my case, um, you know, I've seen so many different uh business plans. Uh I compare different companies, different people who offer their services. And personally, I settled on a business plan from uh Tom Malloy. Exactly. It's uh straight to the forward. Um, and again, it's an actual business plan that Tom uses himself to uh approach his investors. So obviously, you know it works for him, and he's a very experienced producer with uh many, many pictures uh under his belt. Um and um uh I just settled in on that. And just to give you also a comparison, you know, I've seen other business plans that were just full of uh random text and uh maybe like 50 pages long. Oh my god. And I and I see that, and my interpretation when um people do that, uh and then and some of them are platforms, you buy those packages, uh, and I think it's a trick. Uh they overwhelm filmmakers with so much information that filmmaker thinks there is no way I can do it myself, and they end up hiring them to do it for them. But uh, from the quality of the packaging that I've seen, you know, this is what they do. Uh, no investor has time to possibly read uh 50 pages of uh random uh information. Uh you have to have very precise information to the point. Uh, you also have to include uh visuals. Uh so this way uh information smoothly moving forward from page to page to page. Um, and again, uh, in my opinion, Tom's uh business plan is absolutely the best, and it's actually time tested.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

I do, I think so too. It's under um filmmaking stuff hq.com. Uh Tom Aloy's business. Well, it's uh what is it called? It's a business plan, or uh he has a certain name for it, but you'll find it on his website. But now that let's go over uh the uh uh the worst stuff that you see, the mistakes that people make on their business plan. I want to make sure we cover that so people know. Don't do this.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Well, one thing I just mentioned. Uh their business plans are simply too long. Uh too long with a lot of uh fancy wording, but no real meaning behind it. Um you're not there to impress investor, you know, how cool you know your business plan looks. You know, you have to be practical. Uh so you have to be uh short and to the point. Uh in you know, you still have to cover all the important aspects that business plan includes, but uh it has to be efficient. Um so of course, you know, things like you have to include um where are you filming uh for tax uh insensitives, right? You know, if you're filming in US, uh which state, because different states have different uh offers. Uh if you're uh filming uh overseas, uh again, you need to know what uh potential uh uh money investors are gonna get back just from the tax insensitives alone. For example, my comedy will be filmed in uh new state of New Jersey that just last year increased uh their program even more. So now you know you're getting up to 40% back. Um, it's incredibly important uh for investors. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

And if you're using the 181, you have to put that in. You really have to know your stuff to make these uh a professional package. And but when we're talking about a lawyer, I wanted to recommend Robert Siegel out of New York, S-E-I-G-E-L. He is uh our attorney from the Hearts attorney, and he's also Tom Aloyes and many, many filmmakers.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

He's my attorney as well. Yes, he's my attorney as well. And as I mentioned, uh I currently attached uh two four projects um, you know, in different stages of uh production and development. And um I'm working with uh Matt Chaseon, who's my AP, and he has multiple uh filmmakers that he's working with. And he literally right now has uh one of his films uh going on production, and uh Robert is also on the team as an attorney, and um had nothing positive to say. You know, he knows what he's doing, you know, he's uh great in explaining things, you know, there is no ego involved, you know, he's um very, very professional. And um, and of course, the other aspect for independent filmmakers in particular, you know, he makes it work with you, you know, he makes it work, he sees your budget, you know, he understands that people who are shooting a hundred thousand dollar production cannot afford to pay him as much as, you know, let's say a million-dollar production, right? So it's also important to uh find an attorney who understands those differences. And of course, you know, once you work with a studio production, and I know uh Robert has experienced working with Netflix and such, um, you know, he had uh very complicated negotiations with them. Um, you know, so it's it's a fantastic uh connection. So highly recommend uh Robert.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Thank you. Me too. All right. Well, let's tell me about your full packaging service that you put together for people. This is everything from script consultation to business plan. So uh let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Uh yes. Uh so as I mentioned, I start with the uh script consultation and breakdown, uh, followed by creating a schedule, uh, then the budget and uh uh pitch deck, of course, and the business plan. So it's all inclusive uh packaging services. And uh currently uh I'm pricing them at uh$5,550, uh, with the latest um addition of uh larger AI uh reporting as well. Um so at this point I would say nobody else in the market offers anything close to that. Um not in the value, not in uh what actually is being included in the packaging services.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Right. Well, yes, that is a heck of a lot of work. Uh and getting it, like I say, because uh I read perhaps a thousand or more applications for grants, and the budget is one of the most important parts of the grant. Okay, that's what we look at. What's your budget? What's your experience? And even If you're a first-time filmmaker, that's okay. Who have you surrounded yourself with? That's why you always want to put at least three people on your uh business plan that shows us who you're working with and how many uh films they've made, what their experience is, because all of this matters. See, the the secret seems to be that people have to come into the filmmakers have to realize that people give money to people, not to films. So who are you? Why are you making this film? That's got to be part of your uh material in your package.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Yes, definitely your team matters. Um, I do include uh team on the pitch tech as well as uh business plan. And of course, as you mentioned, right, if you have a name DP and you're paying them a lot of money, you need to put that in visuals so that whoever is uh reading uh the pitch tech or the business plan understands uh why this person is so valuable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Exactly. So looking ahead, Arena, what's your vision for the film funding group and your packaging business?

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Um my hope uh hasn't died. You know, I still hope that uh filmmakers uh will become more aware as they understand more and more uh how the film industry operates, um, as well as the all the latest changes, because the industry currently is struggling. You know, we're competing with the social media, uh influencers, right? Um, but instead of uh fighting all those elements, uh, I believe that we filmmakers have to learn how to adapt and integrate all of that in our approaches. And um uh one big aspect uh uh I see is the numbers. Um, like to just to give you an example, uh Hollywood uh spends over half of their budget on the marketing costs, and um the old-fashioned uh marketing strategies are no longer working, uh, because we can see the box offices failing, you know, and uh some people of course blame for the quality of movies, but um I I don't necessarily agree with that. You know, I constantly go to the movies, I always keep an eye on uh industry, see you know what's being made, um and uh quality of movies uh hasn't really drastically changed, I would say. It's uh the message, you know, that the people no longer either interested or aware uh what is playing, when it's playing, because the way the social media operates, and right now most of the marketing is done through the social media, uh, is that uh algorithms uh recommend people what they want to see. So, in a sense, uh what I'm seeing is that Hollywood spends money on nothing because uh their movies are being recommended to people who would see them anyway. So it's very ironic.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Um, and that's where I see uh the new age of uh marketing is so-called organic marketing. People trust people. You know, if your friend recommends something to you, you are more likely to see that. And I think this is where uh groups such as mine come in for filmmakers. If we can unite and just simply uh promote one another, we can just automatically increase those numbers. Like right now, we have over 45,000 members. Imagine if every single member would just simply uh like um crowdfunding posts, share those posts uh uh with their friends. Um, then the algorithm uh recognizes that and picks it up and starts uh uh pushing those posts in front of the random people that nobody knows, right? And so the strength is really in numbers. Uh so my goal is to continue with education, uh, so more and more people will be aware and uh eventually um create a community of self-aware uh filmmakers who understand what needs to be done and also building those relationships. Because if you're not gonna be uh helping other people, let's say to support their crowdfunding campaigns, uh then who's gonna come and support you, right? It's uh and I know right now the emphasis on the audience, which is extremely important, but I feel like you know we're completely disregarding the professional angle of it, right? That we are all uh into this uh together. And um, and of course, you know, in connection with the uh packaging services, uh from my experience until I got a hang of it and packaged my projects, I didn't get any traction. You know, once I've got done that gone through that process and uh understood what it involves, you feel more secure. You know, now you can approach people because you know what you're doing, you know what you're talking about. And um the way I approach um my services is that I don't just do the job of the packaging, I educate filmmakers, I share what I know. I want independent filmmakers to be truly independent. So my hope is that after you know we get a hang of it on one project, with the next project, a filmmaker will actually know, okay, maybe I can do it myself. And if not, I'm still here uh to assist. Um, and uh that's another reason. Uh when I designed uh my um uh Peach Tech, for example, I designed it in Canva. It's a free program. So once you have your Peach Tech, you're gonna get a template. You know, you will be able to go in and make those adjustments uh yourself. You don't have to be attached to me constantly and coming back and you know paying me more and more money uh for any level of adjustment. And I know a lot of other uh people they lock people in that way. Uh same applies uh to my um uh business plan, you know, it's in a word format. So once you have that, you will be able to make uh adjustments yourself. Uh, even my uh budget, I purposely use um Excel template instead of Movie Magic or Gorilla uh software uh for that same reason. Once you have that budget completed and you have some kind of a tweaks to do, you will be able to do it on your own. Um so yes, so that's pretty much my goal, you know, to bring people together, to build stronger community and give them the weapon to make, you know, the weapon meaning the packaging, um, give them the tools uh so that the project can go on the production. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Well done. That's exactly what we need. Lily, Lily Tomlin said, we're all alone together. Right? We're all alone together. But the thing with the independent filmmakers is corralling them like you're doing so they can share and grow. This is a brilliant concept. Thank you very much for that. So for the uh filmmakers listening uh who may be struggling to fund their dream project, what's one more piece of advice that you'd give them today?

SPEAKER_02 52:53

Well yeah, the challenges I think is just part of life and uh also any path that we choose, especially when you follow passion. So just of course, you know, never give up because usually people give up when they're just about to reach you know what they worked for for years to come. So yeah, and uh and another thing is I think uh in art in particular a lot of filmmakers always strive for something more and better, and you know, and they kind of harden themselves in that regard, you know, right? They're very self-conscious and uh they want that perfection. And uh I always tell uh filmmakers the moment you reach perfection, you will no longer be an artist, because the whole purpose of being an artist is currently to thrive for perfection. So it's just part of a job description, so to speak. Um, and I would say just enjoy the ride, getting there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Absolutely, really good advice. Put some passion on the page, Arena. If that's you what you're saying, show me some passion because when you lose passion, you're gonna lose all possibilities for funding, right? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

I mean, um, I love the name of your organization uh from the heart, because it truly is the key. Uh, we all connect uh through the heart, and that passion is what's gonna uh hook people to join you on that adventure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Thank you, thank you so much, Irina, and thank you very much, Claire, for hosting the show. And we wish you lots of good luck and hope you'll come back in a year and give us an update. I wouldn't be surprised if you were up to 80,000 members by then.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

It's quite a possibility. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Carol.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Yeah, you're so welcome, Irina. You have a good idea and a good heart. And the main thing is just keep uh keep helping filmmakers grow because the more you do for one, it's exponential. You're raising the consciousness.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Yes, yes, you know, we're all part of the larger, I don't know, I call it universe, you know, be it consciousness or something, you know, we're all interconnected. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

We are and we're connected to you, Claire. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Oh, yes, uh I I learned a lot as usual, and I would say that um you have a lot more to share. I know that, Irina. And so um I hope we have a chance to have you back on sometime in the future.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

Thank you, Claire, thank you, and thank you, you know, from the heart for having me.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

Oh, it's been a joy. Thanks a lot, and we'll see you next time. Be well, everyone.