Salmon People: Beth Basa Pielert on Trust, Tradition, and the Power of Place

Beth Basa Pielert is a Producer, Director, and writer of television and documentary films. She co-produced and co-directed Scha'nexw Elhtal'nexw Salmon People: Preserving a Way of Life with Darrell Hillaire, Executive Director of the Lummi media company Children of the Setting Sun Productions and Vision Maker Media. The film is now airing on PBS through WORLD Local U.S.A. 

Pielert formed Good Film Works in 2001 while writing and directing Out of the Poison Tree, a documentary that explores truth and reconciliation for survivors of the Cambodian Genocide. Under Good Film Works, Pielert produced documentary shorts for Apple Inc., IDEO|bedsider.org, and Bay Area nonprofits that help provide transitional housing and services for the unhoused.

Her documentary credits include: The Corporation, winner of over 24 International awards including the Sundance Audience Award in 2004, Claiming the Title: Gay Olympics on Trial, winner of 6 awards including best documentary at Palm Springs International Short Fest 2009.

Salmon People: Preserving a Way of Life can be seen Streaming on YouTube World Channel

https://www.YOUTUBE.com/watch?v=soJ-De4osic

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Our very special bet guest, Beth Basa Pielert, is a producer, director, writer, and editor. She recently produced and co-directed Salmon People Preserving a Way of Life with Darryl Hiller, executive director of the Lamy Media Company Children of the Setting Sun Productions. The film is now airing on PBS through World Local USA. Beth founded Good Film Works in 2001 while writing and directing Out of the Poison Tree, a documentary that explores truth and reconciliation for survivors of the Cambodian genocide. Under Good Film Works, Beth has produced documentaries for Apple Inc., IDO, and Reach for Home. Her documentary credits include The Corporation, winner of over 24 international awards, including the Sundance Audience Award, and claiming the title Gay Olympics on Trial, winner of six awards, including Best Documentary at Palm Springs International Shortfest. And Carol, Beth is sponsored by From the Heart, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yes, Claire. Beth and I have worked together for many years, and we're so happy to have you join us, Beth.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Thank you. Sorry, Prague here. Thank you so much, Carol and Claire, for having me on your show today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Great. We're going to have a lot of fun and learn a lot because you spent nearly five years immersed in the Lumi Nation story. So what did it require of you personally and professionally to stay in the right relationship while directing the film?

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Well, I wanted to say I was um very fortunate to be asked to uh help work on this film that was already in progress in many respects. Daryl and I became friends back in 2017 when I first went up to Lummi Nation uh working in development on a TV series that actually From the Heart is a sponsor of Leaves Awaken. And during COVID, Daryl would host these amazing Zooms called From the Heart. There's a lot of synchronicity here. And these were Zoom gatherings that were cross-cultural and invited people to come together and gather, despite the fact that we had to be, you know, uh siloed because of COVID. And we would learn from one another and share stories and share uh ways of coping during this time. And it was during COVID and these From the Heart Zooms that Daryl asked me to come help him make the feature film, Salmon People Preserving a Way of Life. And I feel like this film has been such a collaboration, not just with Daryl, but with the Salmon people who, the families that we tell the story of as they're fishing and meeting this moment, and working closely with them, and even I had the option of living with them really uh helped me continue to learn and uh learn something we call protocol, which is how to be respectful and and act accordingly within the laws of of the tribe and lemmi nation.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Wow, that's a very important area. You're absolutely right. So how did trust uh shape the storytelling process? You're talking about trusting and learning and sharing.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Uh well that is a really good question. I think relationship and trust come over time. And we did have a couple of challenges on this film. I want to say the first, uh it's probably not quite correct to call it a challenge, but we lost Chehenuk Larry Kinley, who is really the inspiration for this film. You know, he was a wonderful leader and fisherman, and he actually passed before I came on board to the film. It was really important to follow protocol around uh not sharing his image or saying his name. And part of my coming on had to carefully navigate all of that with the families with regards to research. And then when it was appropriate to talk about him and start to gather his story and what he did for Indian Country, especially with regards to sovereignty, by that time we had already spent a couple fishing seasons together and we had really become family.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Oh, how wonderful. And I don't uh know about this. They don't mention the name of someone who died for a certain amount of time. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Yes, and I I can't really get too into that. It's not my place, but there's definitely protocol around when someone's passed, and um it's something that I I don't I I've only learned a small amount about, and it's just I follow the lead of Lemmy there. And that's what I did with regards to the film and and how to be, and it just things take time. That's the other thing. There's like this time is really different, I think. My whole background has been about how to be an efficient producer, you know, get things done in a straight line as fast as possible, right? Yeah. Uh that all got turned on its head when I started working with Lemmy Nation. And and I learned quite a lot, and I'm still learning. And it's this idea of uh timing, you know, there's so much, uh, I guess you could use the word divine. There were many magical divine things that happened on this project that were completely out of my control and reminded me that I have really no one control, no control. I have intention, good intentions and respect and these values I'm trying to follow. But other than that, it's kind of like what John Lennon said, you know, life is what happens to you while you're making other plans. That is very much the case with documentary filmmaking, right? It's like you can have this idea of the film and your thesis and where you want it to go, but then life happens and all of it is out of your control and it just unfolds the way the story naturally will unfold.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

That's a great way to look at it. Uh well, let's get into the challenges or other if uh filming outdoors in such a dynamic living landscape over the course of so many seasons. How did you handle that? Light changes, weather changes, all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Well, I want to say where Lemmy Nation fishes, the fishing grounds, um, it's really beautiful. It's it's the islands. So you're in the San Juan, what we would sort of commonly refer to as the San Juan and Gulf Islands. And it's just a it's the Salish Sea. You're surrounded by um forested, kind of like in some cases, mountainous islands. And it's just a very peaceful place to be, unless there's a storm. But we were generally pretty lucky and we had wonderful. I mean, these fishers have been fishing forever. So they know the water and they know how to sort of take care of their crew. So I feel like, yes, there were opportunities. We were in storms, and um, but mainly we had pretty good weather, and and mainly it was just so unbelievably beautiful to be on the water with the salmon people fishing. If anything, the two things that were disturbing and reflective of this moment that we're at, you know, when we're sake fishing, is the heat. We had a pretty extreme heat wave during uh sakke fishing of 2022. We also had a lot of fire smoke, and this combination is not good for people and it's not good for animals, and salmon do not like warm water, so that was absolutely affecting the run and the presence or lack thereof of the sake.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

That was amazing. All right. Well, as a filmmaker and a guest in the community, how did you navigate telling a story that centers indigenous sovereignty and spiritual relationship with salmon and not uh be imposing as an outsider? You had to really be part of the group.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Well, I I I want to thank uh Daryl and Tomas Ellie Kinley and the Solomon, Steve Solomon and his whole family, because I feel like there was such a beautiful friendship there. And that I feel like enabled us to make really good work together. Um, and I learned a lot. I mean, there's just a lot of learning, and and part of my, I would say, biggest humbling learning was around not being so pushy or being so focused on a deadline. And that would come up quite a lot. And I would very gently in a loving way be reminded around the nature of things. And then I would say pretty quickly, I learned that we all follow uh the salmon. It's really the salmon are the ones that are um that we're all gathered around. This life way is centered on salmon, and then the film, of course, is centered on the life way and salmon. So we're sort of taking the cue on the natural course of salmon. And early on, both Daryl and I had conversations about this film, and Daryl knows many people. I mean, Daryl's really an incredible leader, and um, he's a connector, and he works cross-culturally in many areas. So Daryl would uh have lots of ideas and suggestions about bringing in people who were not indigenous. And for whatever reason, I felt really strongly that we didn't want that third-person perspective in this film, that this film should be for really this verite on the water with the salmon people as they're meeting this moment. And I love that we stuck with that decision because it feels like we're in it. And that's what we all kind of wanted. We wanted that feeling of being in it and on the water with the salmon and the people, and not have this like disconnected uh third-person narrative, which is pretty conventional and common in documentary. We didn't want to do that with this film. So we were intentional with that from the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Well, that was a good choice because your film is so engaging that it's like a time warp happens. You just turn on the film and then you're gone for an hour in the illumination and the water and the sounds and the visions. Uh, it's just a magnificent film. Thank you for making this.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Thank you. Sorry, I did want to do just one quick call-out. So, the director of photography on the film, John Carroll, had been working with Daryl for a few years before I came on. And he really cut his teeth as a filmmaker in many ways and a and a director of photography on this film. This was his first film out of college. And he he spent a month uh filming The Salmon up at the Adams River, all that amazing, most of the underwater footage is from John. Some of it is from another incredible filmmaker in Canada named Tavish Campbell. But John just he spent a month doing the underwater photography up at the Adams River. So it's just, I wanted to just give a shout out to him. And then with regards to the audio, uh, both Scott Hirsch, who I've worked with on Out of the Poison Tree, he's the sound designer. He and I, I chose him to come on this project because he's a he's an immersive audio expert. And so he and I really endeavored to bring a 360 quality to the audio so that you felt like you know you could hear the sounds that the salmon people were hearing as they fished.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Exactly. And uh uh this Carol photographer did a marvelous job. I would never have known because having been in the film world for so many years, cinematography is one of my favorite areas, and he did an exemplary job. But uh okay, so tell us about uh the late Larry Kingsley's, how that vision uh shaped the direction of the film, and what legacy did he leave in the footage and in your heart?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

This is a wonderful question. Thank you, Carol. The late Chehenok Larry Kinley, uh it's wild. I never met him, but when I was working on the film, he would come to me in dreams. And part of it was because I had, you know, footage of him. We had a really phenomenal uh archival researcher on the project who's Duamish Nation. I worked at um Daryl's company for a while with me, Camille Troutman. And Camille found incredible old footage of Chehenuch when he was the chairman of the tribe. So we have these, you know, clips of him when he was this young leader, and then of course his family, you know, his uh widow, who became a very dear friend of mine, Tomas, Ellie Kinley, and then his two sons, Skoke Walton, Kyle Kinley, and also Chehaneth Lucas Kinley, who's now the skipper, um, they certainly embody Larry. And Larry, I feel like his words, which you hear at the beginning of the film, are sort of his his guidance, which are, you know, you really need to understand who you are and where you come from. And Orin Lyons also echoes this in the film. But another guiding light from Larry is this uh idea of sovereignty and and the and sort of the practice of um self-governance and what that means. And and Larry actually went on to help a couple of California tribes um realize their sovereignty. Uh and this is um, I don't want to go down, I just realized I was going, I was going off your question. So coming back to the question, Larry was in the fabric of the film from the beginning because of the stories that I had from his family, but also the archival material that we had, and also because of Daryl. Daryl was really good friends with the late Shahenok Larry Kinley, and he would share that guidance with me often. And for there were a couple words that we'd remind each other of, but Daryl said that Larry's last words to him were keep going. You have to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

That's great. But he was coming to you in dreams, Beth. Share that.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Well, that was wild because uh for me, one of the challenges was being so far from Lummy Nation. So yeah, I'm about a thousand miles away. And sometimes that was difficult combined with um the nature of culturally you not being in the room is a is problematic. And then also me holding the responsibility of this and how to do it right and respectfully, I would have a lot of insecurities come up. So, especially when I was editing the film, and when you're editing, you're really in this cave and you need to be. And that's when I would have my doubts come up, and that's when Larry would visit, which was really helpful, actually. But actually, one quick story about Larry and his guidance. So we were having a hard time figuring out um how to open this film, and you know, you're not seeing it as much in the film now, but you do hear it at the beginning of the film. Ellie's talking about this being a love story. It's a love story of salmon, it's a love story of our people, and it's a love story of Chehenok Larry Kinley. Well, that came to me through Larry. And when I would go up to Lummy to work toward the last year or so, I would stay with Ellie. And Ellie is there on the nation, and I would do a little run. And it was when I was running trying to figure out how are we opening this film? How are we opening this film? Well, it's a love story. It just came to me, and I know that was Chehanath Larry Kinley.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Isn't that wonderful? And space and time mean nothing to people on the other side. Wherever you are, they can be. It's that easy. Right. Okay, so spiritual and ecological themes. Let's get into the film opens a space for viewers to ask, who are we without salmon? And how has this question evolved for you during the course of the project? That would be really hard to consider a life in a world without them.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

I think it's it's almost impossible to consider it. I think the question is sort of like uh a galvanizing battle cry, if you will, to do everything we can to protect salmon, to not let that happen, to realize that if we keep going the way we're going, we are looking at the extinction of salmon. And you know, salmon is part of a continuum of which we are a part. So we we want to do everything we can to look at why salmon isn't doing well and what we can do as a species to do better by salmon, therefore doing better by ourselves, you know, everything is connected. So I think one of the things that comes up in the film is the legacy of Chehenoch's optimism, and you can see that expressed through his son, uh, Chehainoch Lucas Kinley talks about you gotta be hopeful. My dad taught me that. So I think um this question is a good one, and I personally have sort of digested it as it's our responsibility to do what we can to make sure that we have salmon for future generations.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Important, yes. Important uh well, the Earth Month invites a reflection on environmental justice. So, how does the film reflect indigenous core values uh like stewardship and reverence for the natural world?

SPEAKER_02 21:45

LEMI are um something I noticed in my time with Lummy is how responsive they feel generally when there's a problem. It's pretty remarkable. So I've witnessed this again and again, not just with salmon or the environment, but also with missing and murdered indigenous people, or uh, you know, there's a problem with um uncontrolled substances on the nation. You know, these different things that are happening, these different you could call them problems or challenges. So, with regards to the environment, LEMI has a long track record of protecting its sacred spaces, that's very important, uh, where their ancestors are and taking care of that, but also taking care of the waterways and the watersheds and all of the areas where salmon need to have habitat. So there's many, you know, sort of like negotiations around farming and water use and also habitat and the need for shade. Um, but you'll see in the film also that from the beginning, really, for a long, long time, since the early 1800s, there's been this idea of um the need to have um hatcheries. So I think. Just to make sure that there are fish. And because so much overfishing happened in the early 1800s, where it just almost wiped out all the runs very quickly, that there's had to be a certain amount of making sure that there's fish out there to fish. And Lemmy have been, along with many tribes, have been on the forefront of this hatchery based on wild fish. Okay. So it's you're taking wild fish and you're growing more from the wild fish and you're making sure that enough fish are getting into the watershed system so that they can regenerate and there can be a run. But there's also this need to protect all that habitat. And as there's more development and more farming, or even looking at ways that there's pesticides that get into the watersheds, you have to kind of back up and look at all of it, you know, and and and really take some responsibility on consumer choice or like what we can do with regards to how we handle our own transportation, all these things, right? But if you can understand it, you can kind of pick then, well, where can I make a choice that's going to be helpful? Where can I make a choice that would be harmful? And I think it's just comes down to education and following the lead of people who've been centered around salmon since time immemorial. I mean, we're talking thousands of years. So for thousands of years, many tribes referred to themselves as salmon people and they've been taking care of the natural world and their core values of respect and um sharing and gratitude. And only about 400 years. I mean, if we look at like contact when the ships came over, that we call that contact. It's only been about a few hundred years. I mean, look at how fast we've nearly wiped things out, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:12

That's amazing. We've done a really great job.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

We've done a we've done a lot of damage in a short amount of time. So I think it's um learning uh where we're at, and looking at you know the guidance of Chehenic Larry Kinley. You have to understand where you come from and you have to understand where you're at to kind of make your decisions about the future. It's it's Larry and Orin. They're they're echoing that to remind us. And I think right now, especially in this time of the erasure of history, I feel particularly proud and passionate about making sure people see the film because you're learning a little bit about our history to understand how we got here so that we can, you know, um make a difference and ask ourselves, who are we without salmon? And and how can we um recorrect this course we're on? Because we can make some different choices.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

We can, and we should, yes. So how you've pretty much wrapped this up, but personally, what do you feel that the film does to teach us about our interconnectedness to the water, the land, and to the winged and the fend, all of us, how we are so interconnected.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Well, you have these beautiful words of uh Chief Wayne Christians, who's talking about um, you know, how salmon feed all of us, you know, they feed the water and they feed the four-legged, they feed the winged. And then when they're spawning and they give their their bodies over, they're also just feeding the the water itself. They're feeding, you know, the plants and things. So I feel like that, and also the story that Steve Solomon talks about about Grandpa Felix and Grandma Dora, um sharing those values of listening, deep listening, you know, to the water and the wind and these things. Um, I think there, I just recently went to Bioneers, you know, which is a conference we have here that's really pretty wonderful. It's this convening of indigenous artists, musicians, scientists. It's a pretty phenomenal conference here in the Bay Area that happens every March. And there was a a guest, Cesar Rodriguez, who shared some of his work where he's been recording in the cloud forest. And Cesar said to us, you know, when we hear nature, when we hear the sounds of nature, it connects us to our responsibility to it. And I just loved that because I I love I love nature. I like also with film that you can see it, but you can also hear it. And that deep listening and tuning in, it made a lot of sense to me that that connects us to our responsibility to it.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Yes, it does. And this is so important to listen when you're in nature, to listen. Uh so let's go to the teachings of the salmon. Um protecting salmon is a full-time job. So, what can it teach us about endurance, adaptability, and the power of returning to our source? I love this because we all have to return to the source, and they seem to do it with no compulsions.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yeah, Tomas Ellie Kinley, um Jahan of Larry Kinley's widow, uh talks about salmon, protecting salmon being her full-time job. And I think in the film you really get a real sense for her her passion as a fisher and being on the water and the importance of protecting this life wave for you know her great-great-grandchildren, you know. So with salmon, something that blew my mind because I learned so much working in this film, still learning so much. Uh, I it's sort of mind-blowing to understand that they're born into freshwater and then they learn to actually travel into salt water, and they, you know, go way out into the deep ocean to sort of pasture out there and fatten and eat and navigate, and that could be years. And then they come back to the original, you know, rivers where they were born. I mean, if you imagine the fragility of all of this and all that they encounter, you definitely would want to get out of their way so they could do their job. Yeah, but they're they're very um, they're very committed. There's a adaptability inherent in salmon, adaptable going from fresh to salt and back to fresh. That's that's like adaptability, and then there's this enduring committed journey. I mean, I salmon can travel up to 6,000 miles in their lifetime. It's just it's wild. And there's this smell and genetic encoding, even something that I find really hopeful. Um, when they pulled the dams down on the Elwa and also on the Klamath River, it only took like five to ten days for almost all five species to return. These dams have been in their way for for decades. And then when you pull them down, they come back. It doesn't take long. That's pretty remarkable.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yes. So they're communicating with each other.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

They s they're following a sense of smell, I guess. I mean, they're just you know, you can't you can't keep a good salmon down, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Well said, right. Okay. So they are Olympic level navigators, right? Genetically encoded to journey thousands of miles, only return and give their lives. Um, and so what we have to really understand, and please help us, what do their life cycles teach us about selflessness and service?

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, I mean, they're sort of the epitome of um pivoting and adaptation. Uh, you know, salmon are not seeking comfort. You know, it's quite the opposite. They are um designed to give of themselves to make a great journey, adapting to various climates and situations. Many of them are dangerous, only to come back and literally give their life to regenerate and then give their life and body and flesh to feed. It's pretty wild. Um I think they can give us um a lot of food for thought around how to think beyond ourselves, how to um maybe think less about how comfortable we can be and how we can actually serve the greater good. And um yeah, this idea of like impermanence, I think can be really liberating. Because if you think of your life as like, okay, I'm here for the time I'm here, what's the what are what can I do? How can I like positively contribute to things while I'm here and use my time? It's something I ask myself. And I think I think uh learning more about salmon has certainly encouraged me to do so.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

The British biologist Sheldrake is teaching us about morphic resonance, and so that nature has a memory, nature itself, and the salmon and nature are connected, and this right, and they know instinctively what to do and how to do it. It's amazing, and that's showing us how we are so connected to every living thing that it's important what the film you've made is really one of the greatest films I've ever seen for connectivity. You really get into the world, into the fish world, and understand uh they know their job, and they're and they're they've dedicated their lives to feed us, and uh it's an amazing film. So let's get into the legacy. So, what do you want young indigenous viewers to take away from this film? And what about non-native audiences? What responsibility do we have after watching your film?

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Thank you. This is a really good question because one of the things I noticed um the film is streaming right now, so we have these wonderful partners in GBH Boston and Vision Maker Media, and it's streaming, it's both being broadcast on PBS and then streaming on um the world's local USA YouTube channel. So you can find it if you look for salmon people, preserving a way of life. And I was looking at some of the comments when the film first came out, and um, you know, sometimes when we look at our true history, it can rub people the wrong way. Especially I've noticed um with non-Indigenous people. They can, some people can feel a little pushed back on their um heels. And and I don't want to do that. I our goal is not to point fingers or say um it's your fault, or because that's not going to necessarily get us anywhere. I do think it's valuable for us to understand a little bit of our true history so that we can um appreciate uh and learn from our mistakes and how we might do better for the collective good. So I do feel very passionate about facing our true history. And I think when we learn things about our American history, you know, some of our American history is quite difficult to confront, but we absolutely have to do it. We need to understand how our country was founded so that we can heal from that and move forward. I feel like until we do that, we really kind of can't move forward. So for me, the film just in a small way helps us look at uh some of our history so that we can understand where we're at, so that again, we can move forward together. And it is about coming together. I think that many of the people in the film, of which I feel like I'm more of a facilitator rather than the person who made the film. This film was made by many people, mainly the salmon people, who were kind enough and trusting enough to let us be on their boats while they were fishing, trying to make a living for themselves and their family during wildfires and warming oceans when the fish really weren't coming in. It's a pretty stressful time, but they trusted us, right? And I think there's a trust there because um there's a common agreement that we want to help educate and also do better for future generations. So the film is is super, it's inherently indigenous. I mean, John and I are not indigenous, but we've been entrusted and guided um to help come together to make this work together. And I think something I love about Daryl Hilaire and what he gifted many of us during COVID and what guided the film too is we all need to come together.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

We're learning that more than yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

I mean, when you I, you know, I'm thinking of the elephants. So we you know, we didn't record this, but that just the story of recently there was an earthquake down in Southern California, I think it was yesterday, and the elephants at the San Diego Zoo, they when there was an earthquake, the elders all gathered around the youngster and protected it. I mean, it's just like the most beautiful thing. You can look this up. And I think um the film's important for indigenous viewers to understand some of the history and understand sovereignty and understand this life way and why it's so important that it gets passed on. You know, the this information is shared on the water, and there's an importance of being on the water. And hopefully, the film is an invitation to return to the water and be on the water. But I also feel like I don't really necessarily want to separate Indigenous viewers from non-Indigenous viewers, even though I guess we have to mention it. I really feel like the film is for everybody, and it's an opportunity to literally be on the water, which is pretty incredible with the salmon people and understand this moment we're at. You know, we're at an extraordinary moment with the climate and with the fish, and that's telling us a lot about ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Exactly. Thank you for that. Now, how has working with children of the setting sun productions shifted your own storytelling lens? And how do you see this kind of work transforming the documentary landscape moving forward?

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Yeah, that's so funny. That's a that's a big question, Carol. That's a big one. Um, I feel super lucky. I just want to say I feel fortunate and very grateful uh that I had the opportunity to make this work um with Children of the Setting Sun Productions and with the Salmon people. And for me, the the biggest gift was becoming family with the Kinleys and the Solomons. That's like to me, I I didn't expect that to happen, and it happened, and it's beautiful. Um I feel like with regards to my storytelling lens, it's definitely uh, I feel like it's blown the doors off the idea of working in a silo, and it's something that I'm really trying to work with. Now, you I know this is audio, but behind me is this work I did recently developing a new documentary series that is about meeting the moment we're at right now and trying to invite more perspectives to the table. And I think I'm really interested in that and working outside of a silo and navigating different um perspectives so that we can listen to one another and move toward working together instead of being divided. So I think in a lot of ways I've learned more about slowing down, listening more and and working cross-culturally. I also, you know, it wasn't always easy working on this project. I I encountered um some challenges, you know, and I think, you know, part of that is looking at my own role in interpersonal dynamics and working relationships and and being reflective about my role and things that don't work as well as they could, and being humbled by that, but also understanding also what what kind of collaborations I want in the future and working toward that.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

That's a lot to achieve. That's wonderful. Well, tell us about Leaves Awaken. That's one of my favorite of your projects. Is that coming soon? What's the story on that?

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah, so you know, Leaves Awaken has that's what first brought me to Lemination. So Leaves Awaken was a project that came to me after Standing Rock. And it's born from my own experiences. Um, as someone who is growing up feeling very different as a Jewish, you know, eventually I came to realize I was a gay person, but living in a community that was mostly um white Anglo-Saxon and very straight, uh just feeling like a different person and sort of finding my solace in the forest. You know, I used to kind of run away to the trees a lot when I was growing up. And after standing rock, for whatever reason, I think because I'd just been exposed to something that changed my life, and that was this concept of people coming together in a nonviolent way to stand up for um their life way and the water and people and their indigenous life and the land. So I'd just been exposed to all of that, and I came home and I was pretty depressed because the pipeline was being completed, and um, it was kind of a pretty dark time. So I started writing this script and it just kind of came out of me about 11 pages of this young person who is disconnected from her roots, and um she's trying to find her mom. And I got about 11 pages in, and I thought, well, this is crazy because I'm making this person half indigenous and I'm not indigenous, so I really don't feel right continuing in this way unless I get permission. So I met Lemmy Nation at Standing Rock, and I was really impressed because they drove up this huge seafood feast from the from Seattle area to feed the water protectors. And more than the food, they really taught um that's when I first learned the core values of gratitude and sharing and respect. So it was really it was nourishing us spiritually too, this like coming together in prayer and sharing um and gratitude. So I I just loved that. So the character is half Lemmy Nation, I'm 11 pages in. So I decide I'm gonna cold call someone from Lummi Nation. And I find them on the website and I find this person, Lena So, and um I cold call her and I'm kind of nervous as the phone's ringing, hoping it goes to voicemail, but she answers. And I let her, I introduce myself, let her know I'm writing the script and I don't want to get too far if it doesn't resonate and can I share it? And if it feels okay, maybe we could meet. So that's that's how I started working with Lumination. It was really through the 11 pages of Leaves Awaken and calling Lena. So Lena read the 10 pages within two hours. She liked them. She said, This looks good, come up, let's have a meeting. And from There, that's when I had a six-hour meeting with her, and um, she introduced me to Darryl, and one thing led to another. And before you knew it, I was working with a First Nations writer-director, Marie Clements, who's Dana woman, incredible writer-director. She's based up on uh Galeano Island. And we wrote a pilot, and the pilot got shortlisted for Sundance, and we were kind of cooking, and then we didn't get into Sundance, and then COVID happened. And so what happened with Leaves Awaken is COVID kind of shut everything down. And Daryl and I deepened our relationship during COVID through his from the heart um gatherings and me going up there and working with him and his team on canoe journey stuff. And before you know it, you know, he's asking me to help him make salmon people. So now that Salmon People is completed and it's being broadcast and it's being shared, and we have this incredible study guide that came out of um the Setting Sun Institute, and we're helping educators teach the work. Now that that's on its way, uh, I'm returning to Leaves Awaken. But I will say that it's in this landscape with everything that's going on with our own government and money and all those things. I I'm I'm feeling that Leaves Awaken might need to still wait a bit longer because it is a pretty ambitious television show that is set, you know, a thousand miles north of me. And so I feel called to do some work that's local right now. And so I'm I'm working on some things at a local level in the Bay Area while I think how to forward leaves awaken.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Okay, it is a great story, but timing is the most important part. So you're right. If you feel you have to wait, you do. I can tell you from working with so many filmmakers over all these years that sometimes the universe says, not now, not now, and then it'll say, This is the moment, and you know it. You know it. I've seen that happen. Uh one time there was a film about um stunt women, and she couldn't get funded, and she couldn't get behind the the uh cameras, wouldn't let her come in and shoot the stunt women working on TV shows. So she went to New Zealand, and there was a great uh film with stunt woman down there. They said, come on over, we don't care. So she went over there, she shot that, and then it just stopped. And then um I think it was Quentin Tarantino's wife got involved, and that was it. That was the time everything just took off. Uh, and this has happened, I've seen this happen over and over. Uh, the universe knows, and so if you stay tuned in, like meditating every day, connecting with the universe, you'll know. But in the meantime, that's a wonderful project to continue to develop in your mind, Beth.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Thank you. I I've always appreciated your guidance and encouragement and belief. So thank you so much, Carol.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Okay, well, uh tell us now exactly uh how people can see the film.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Sure. So Salmon People Preserving a Way of Life is being broadcast through the World Channel on PBS stations. So you can actually tune in to your local PBS station, you know, through your cable or through your Apple TV or Roku, however you access television. Um, you can check to see if you have world. And if you have world, you can find our our uh program there. And it's going to be broadcasting at different times for the next few years. Another way to get the film right away is through the World Local USA YouTube channel. So you can just go onto YouTube, look up World Local USA, and once you're there, type in salmon people preserving a way of life, and you'll find our film.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Okay. Uh definitely appreciate that. All right, Beth. Well, best of luck to you, Claire and I. Really appreciate the work you're doing to teach us how connected we are to each other, to nature, and what responsibilities we have.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Well, thank you so very much. I appreciate the work you're doing. And um, thank you for collecting the story. And uh I hope you all have a wonderful day. And I'll have to share you the video of the elephants. Yes, I'll share that now.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Yes, thank you. That would be wonderful. And I also want to share my gratitude with you for pouring your heart into the work you're doing and the um the ability that you have, the gifts that you have, that you bring to what you're doing, and how I've just just from this short interview, feel like there's a lot more to you than meets the eye and the heart. So we're looking forward to more of what you have in store. Thank you very much for everything.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Thank you. Thank you. You're very kind. Thanks. We'll see you again in the future, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

All right, sounds good. You too. Have a great day. Yes, be well, everyone. You too. Bye bye.