How to Raise Money for Your Doc with Jilann Spitzmiller

Jilann Spitzmiller is a veteran filmmaker with over 20 awards for her documentary and multi-media work. For more than three decades, she has honed a mastery in long-range, character-driven, cinema verité storytelling, supported multiple times by funders such as Sundance Institute, ITVS and George Soros’ Open Society Institute. 

 She has been a Sundance Documentary fellow and was selected for the Stowe Narrative Lab in 2024. Jilann’s most notable films include MEOW WOLF: ORIGIN STORY, which premiered at SXSW and played in over 600 theaters and is now on AppleTV, Amazon and other platforms. She produced the cult favorite, SHAKESPEARE BEHIND BARS which premiered at Sundance and won 11 awards and went onto US theatrical and worldwide television distribution. She directed the award-winning features STILL DREAMING and HOMELAND which both aired nationally on PBS. Spitzmiller directed and wrote episodic documentary for Discovery’s MEDICAL DIARY and NBC’s LIFE MOMENTS,

Jilann also has many cinematography credits, shooting on nonfiction episodic for NETFLIX, CNN, PBS, DISCOVERY, NBC, and Bravo. Jilann is currently teaching film funding in her Doc Funding Hub

https://courses.desktop-documentaries.com/memberships/doc-funding-hub

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Join us for how to raise money for your documentary with Jill Ann Spitzmiller.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Jill Ann Spitzmiller is a veteran filmmaker with over 20 awards for her documentary and multimedia work. For more than three decades, she has honed a mastery in long-range character-driven cinema verité storytelling, supported multiple times by funders such as Sundance Institute, ITBS, and George Soros Open Society Institute. She's been a Sundance Documentary Fellow and was selected for the Stowe Narrative Lab in 2024. Jill Ann's most notable films include Meow Wolf Origin Story, which premiered at South by Southwest and played in over 600 theaters, and is now on Apple TV, Amazon, and other platforms. She produced the cult favorite Shakespeare Behind Bars, which premiered at Sundance and won 11 awards, and went on to U.S. theatrical and worldwide television distribution. She directed the award-winning features Still Dreaming and Homeland, which both aired nationally on PBS. Gillanne directed and wrote an episodic documentary for Discovery's Medical Diary and NBC's Life Moments. She also has many cinematography credits shooting on nonfiction episodic for Netflix, CNN, PBS, Discovery, NBC, and Bravo. And she's currently teaching film funding in her Doc funding hub. And Carol, I believe Jillanne has been sponsored by From the Heart for many years.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

That's right, Claire. And she is a dedicated, heartfelt filmmaker. Thank you, Jill Ann, for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Thank you, Carol, for inviting me to speak with you today. And I've always felt you've been one of my guardian angels in this journey. And I'm just always excited to connect with you.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

How kind of you. I'm so proud of what you've achieved. It's an amazing life you've had, Jill Ann. And you're just getting started. That's right. We've got still a ways to go. Right. So let's get started with the Doc Film Funding Hub. And what inspired you to create this new resource for filmmakers?

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Well, the Doc Funding Hub is basically a you know a membership program that has a very low entry fee for filmmakers. And the reason that I wanted to create it is that I feel like, you know, fundraising always takes more things than we think it will. It always takes longer than we think it will. Even if you have the best mindset, even if you have experience, it's good to have community. It's good to have new knowledge. Um, it's good to have support and encouragement. Uh, I like to be a cheerleader as well as a teacher, you know. So I just wanted to create something ongoing. And I I work in conjunction with desktop documentaries, which is a really wonderful website that has online courses and resources for documentary filmmakers. And um I've been doing content for them for the last nine years or so. And we've always had courses on there that are sort of at will, self-paced, but never anything that was like a month-to-month community building kind of thing. And I think that that's something that was really needed. So that's why we wanted to jump in and do that.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Well, it's more fun, I think, when you learn from other filmmakers and sharing what works, what doesn't work, etc., is so important, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Right. And things are always changing. I mean, I I found like I did a webinar yesterday for desktop on budgeting, because there's all these new things to consider when you budget now. In the documentary world, we're really looking at accessibility, not only for deliverables and how people watch things, but for crew, you know, and being more inclusive with for crew with disabilities. Like, how do we accommodate that? And that's gonna take some resources probably. And AI, how does AI affect our budgets? And how does um, you know, keeping our mental health um in the forefront affect our budget? And so, like, there's always things that are changing. This the documentary and the film world are evolving constantly and rapidly due to technology changes and cultural changes, and you know, so I think it's important to kind of keep the the tap on for fresh knowledge. You know, there's always the tried and true things, yes, but there are new things, new tools all the time. So good to stay up to date.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yes, that's it. This this industry runs on changes, and we're in warp speed now with changes, so good. Well, tell us how the doc funding hub differs from other online fundraising platforms or courses for documentarians.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah, well, I you know, I was looking out there um at like, is there any sort of ongoing program? And I I used to run like some coaching circles online um a long time ago, and but I don't I didn't really see anything out there right now. So there's crowdfunding crowdfunding platforms where you know you do all the work and you raise the money on that platform. There's online courses, but I didn't see anything that was like a you know mentorship kind of community-building program. So I think that's how we're a little different. And each month we are tackling a new topic, um, like this past month webinar we just did. So we do one webinar a month on a particular topic, and then we have a bi-weekly um funding alert email that goes out so that'll tell you about deadlines coming up, which I think is great because you know there's new ones, there's old ones dropping off. That's always helpful to be have someone else do that work for you and remind you of what's coming up, and then um we have like an online course that's self-paced as well. But um, we just did something on niche foundations. Um, and anyway, I forgot what your question was.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

How do you differ from other platforms? And I've never heard anybody have a reminder to tell you the grants are closing. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Yeah, I think that's super helpful. And so, yeah, anyway, we tackle a different um topic every month with our webinars, and you can ask questions. You know, there's a live QA. So I think it's just very um, there's a lot of elements to it that are super supportive, and we wanted to keep the price point really low and accessible as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Oh, you've done that. That ten dollars a month is wonderful. And you've had uh so much uh good luck with uh raising money through grants, so you know how to focus on it because every grant is different, and you really have to hone into what the criteria is for that grant and read up on it so that you have a better chance of winning, right? So, I mean, you personally are the right person to be teaching this, Jill Ann.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Well, I think you know, grant writing is like can be a lot of work, right? But it really actually helps you always um wrap your head around what is your film actually? What are you actually trying to do by making this film and why are you making it? And these, you know, like a lot of the bigger film funds will use the the core app, thank goodness in the last few years, the they've developed a sort of standardized application process, but at the same time, everybody kind of adds their own little thing in there, like, oh well, here's the core app, but we also want you to answer this question and that question for us in particular, you know. So even if you do the core app and you can put it out to let's say six, you know, grantors or whatever, you're still gonna have to individualize. And um I think that it's a it's a really helpful process, even though it's pretty labor-intensive when you're when you're first engaging. Like I said, it really helps you focus on like, why am I telling this story in particular? Why now, you know, and and how am I telling it? And how is it different from the other films on the same subject that are already out there? Um, these are things that granters ask you in these applications, and it's it's it really helps you um individualize and set your film apart, you know, and and make sure you're not just re-treading over ground that we've already covered.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yes, and uh you've worked with us with From the Heart many years as a judge, and uh it's so wonderful when you have filmmakers judging other filmmakers, and they really can look right into the heart of the project. And this is what you have to be ready to do when you write your grant, you've got to know exactly what it is, what is the point, and what is the story you want to tell. Because I remember uh one time, I don't remember it's with your group that was the three women that were judging, but one of the um judges on a grant said to me, it's a great idea, but she hasn't honed in on the story, she hasn't identified her story yet. Well, I had asked for something to tell the filmmaker not, so I thought, well, I'm just gonna tell her this and be truthful. And the and the filmmaker said, You're right. We saw through the the veil there, yeah. Yeah. That helped her though to realize that she had to get to to the end result. What's the point here? But um the thing is that if you don't get it on that page, you can't win that grant, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:38

That's true. And you know, just I really appreciate that you as a funder would give that feedback from the judges to the finalists. I don't, you know, I don't, I think maybe it was just the finalists who got that feedback. But I actually I know that you would give your own feedback to the semifinalists before even we got the the finalists, but that's so rare. And I think as filmmakers, we kind of send things out into the void all the time. And so to get some really targeted feedback, um, even to have made it that far, she had to have some really strong elements. And then, you know, to get that little final push, like, hey, we we see a little hole there that you need to really um work on. I just think it's so valuable, and I I think that's great that you go that extra mile and give people feedback. I think ITVS used to do that. I don't know how much they still do that, um, but maybe to the final stage. And I I always just really appreciate when when funders take that time. So thank you from all of us filmmakers out there. Oh, you're so welcome.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

I appreciate that. Your program includes webinars, newsletters, and a course. Uh so can you share some of the most popular topics or modules that your members are loving?

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Well, I think, you know, we we kind of started off with a cut and dry thing about your fundraising infrastructure. And I think that even though that's really sort of, you know, not the most exciting information, it's probably the most important that you have your fundraising mechanism in place. So that means like your your company, like your LLC, right? And your fiscal sponsor, I always use From the Heart Productions because I love them and I love you, Carol. Um, and um, you know, your bank account and your EIN and all that. So we kind of went through all those little bitty but very important things that you need to like start receiving money. Um and then I I always like to talk about mindset too, um, because uh you could have everything in place, but if your like mindset is in poverty thinking it'll be really hard to raise money, so we we talk about that a lot, and um you know, and every month we take a different topic. I last month we took um, or maybe it was, yeah, maybe it was already, I guess it was June. We took niche foundations, and so what I mean by that is like the smaller foundations that um might fund a whole bunch of different things, um, or just one thing where you know someone has set up a smaller foundation, they might not give out huge grants, they might give 5,000, 10,000, 25,000, even up to 50, but they really have a particular focus. So as opposed to like the Sundance Fund, where they're just looking for, you know, interesting films and and well-made films and ideas and and filmmakers, these family foundations are more like subject matter driven. So they might fund theater, or they might fund social justice, or they might fund nutrition, or you know, like they pick like certain things. And um I honestly am getting a lot of my funding from these smaller foundations these days, they're a faster turnaround than the big film funds, and um they they're just sort of a little more accessible. You have to do more research and you have to make sure you find the right people to approach. Um, and often they haven't even funded a film before. And sometimes you have to maybe explain to them, you know, what are the benefits of funding a film versus a nonprofit that might do the same work. Um so, you know, there might be a little bit of back and forth around that, but um, I think that's one of our that's been a really popular topic. And also um raising fast cash is always a popular topic. And and I kind of talk about some fun and crazy um ideas in in that um module, yes. Which, you know, like my favorite thing is the mega yard sale, you know, like you get all your friends to donate all the stuff they don't want to you, and you have a giant yard sale, and um, you know, sometimes we raise$10,000 doing that, and it's like a lot of physical work, but your friends can help you. You you don't have to people who don't have cash to give you can donate something they don't want anymore, and it's like a win-win for everybody. It can be like a real community-driven thing. You could do a multiple film yard sale, like you could have three filmmakers, you know, join in and everybody's uh making money for their film. So those are those are that's one of the fun things we talked about, and um, you know, I'm always looking for ways to build community, to do things together with other like-minded folks, and to make it a little less isolating because the this can be a pretty lonely journey if you're you know trying to get a film made and on your own. So I I have through teaching the uh for many years, almost 30 years, I think most people want community and they want resources. So this is our sort of answer to that.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yes, well, this filmmaking is collaborative, everyone putting their ideas and energies and talents together. Why not do it before the film so you have it for the fundraising too? Exactly. Yeah, well, tell me um what filmmakers get for just ten dollars a month because I find this fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Well, I should say that just to clarify, the introductory rate is ten dollars a month, and then it goes up uh just slightly. Um, and there's a break if you sign up for multiple months or whatever, but you can cancel at any time too. So um, but basically you get a monthly webinar with me or Hank. Um we're doing this together, and Hank is my filmmaking partner and and husband of many years. Um, we've made many projects together and done a lot of fundraising together. So um you get a monthly webinar where we take one topic and we go super in-depth, and there's QA at the end and during the webinar, and then those are recorded and they're put into the Doc Funding Hub, you know, membership site. So if you join, you know, a few months in, you've got access to all those previous webinars. Um, there's also the bi-weekly fundraising deadline newsletter. Um, and then there's the funding essentials course, which is a self-paced online workshop. There's lots of exercises and prompts, and it helps you get prepared to fundraise and kind of again, there's mindset things in there. Um there's talk about trailers, there's talk about crowdfunding, there's talk about pitching. Um, it's basically like a um a foundation. And then with the webinars, we go in more deeply into the topics. Um and yeah, that's it's as simple as that. So um next, next our next webinar will be on crowdfunding, and I think we'll revisit that a few times because there's a lot to talk about with crowdfunding.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

It's enormous what you have. Yeah, it's incredible. Well, I I hope you're putting a lot of emphasis on trailers. Put your money in trailers because that's what that's what really gets my attention. The trailer. Can you make a film? What what are your first four frames? How do you start? What energy is in there? Does it uh excite me? Do you move? Uh does a movie work with the music? You know, all of those things are so important. Uh, it's your signature uh that to we look at as judges. So I think it's really important. That's where I am after all these years. Put your money in a trailer, good one.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

It's so good to hear that. And like I I just appreciate you always um letting us know from that funder's perspective, like what is hitting for you? And and trailers are like a snapshot of not only your film and your story and your participants, but you as a filmmaker, like where are you in your journey? Where are you in your capabilities? Um, where are you in your leadership? You know, and um I think getting help from a professional is really so important, right? If you're if you're kind of new to it or whatever. And I I've I personally sometimes I jump in on your webinars, and um, the one with Karen Everett about trailers was really good. I love how she boils it down, you know. She's kind of got a formula that you can use, and um then you take it from there, right? You put on the bells and whistles, but I think she's really so um to the point and so so good at that.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yes, she really is. Uh, she's it's a technical thing. I mean, it's so simple when you look at it through an editor's eyes, but getting to that point, uh, because you're the carrier, as the filmmaker, you're the carrier of a tremendous amount of information. So getting that into two minutes is a talent all of its own, believe me.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Right. It can take weeks and weeks to get that right two minutes, right? It's it's just trial and error.

unknown 23:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Not only does that work, that helps people, and it shows Them how good of a filmmaker you are, and most importantly, what is the story you want to tell? Yeah. Well, let me ask you, what mistakes do you see filmmakers make in fundraising efforts? And how can Doc funding hub help avoid these mistakes?

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Oh my gosh, there's there's so many little pots of quicksand that you can find yourself in. But I would say, like, number one is mindset, um not understanding where your blocks are in terms of money, right? So there's money everywhere, there are resources everywhere. It's sort of infinite. And um, but if we kind of limit ourselves and our own thinking about where to find it or how much we're we're um capable of handling, or you know, whatnot, um, I think it's hard to get off the starting block. Um, so I always just encourage people like to really look at like if you're if your inner voice is like blurting, you know, as you're writing the grant and ask and writing the part about why you should be the one to tell this story, right? If your inner voice is saying, Oh, but somebody already did it better, and you know, you really don't deserve to, you know, it's like if things like that are happening and even just like tuning in, right? A lot of times we don't even realize there's that inner voice kind of thwarting us. Um so I like to do exercises around mindset, kind of we almost do those every webinar just at the beginning, like, okay, let's let's clear the decks, and then we can let the information flow in and we can have less um resistance, right, to to letting those resources come in. And and then I think the other mistake people make is not understanding what the film is going to cost and what resources it's going to take. So if you don't actually know, you know, of course, documentary is unpredictable, things change, your budget might change, but if you don't start out understanding what it might take, um, it's hard to confidently ask for what you need, right? So if you haven't done this before and you think, oh, I'm gonna spend$25,000 making this film, when in when in reality it's probably a$350,000 film, right? So just like understanding at the beginning. And I've I've mentored so many people who are like, Well, I've and I'll we'll come, I'll come in at the in the middle of the process and I'll be like, okay, well, what do you need to finish it? And they'll be like, I don't really know. And I'll be like, okay, well, what did you spend already? I I don't really know, you know, but I'm like, okay, we gotta figure this out because um it's it's a it's a hidden block, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

So yes. Um I think a lot of films would never have been made if they own up front.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yes, it really totally, totally. And I still have people I'm mentoring, you know, on a story level or whatever, who they still don't know. And that's okay, that's just the way they choose to do it. But I do see pain that stems from, you know, that fear, pain and fear from okay, what's next? You know, instead of kind of meeting those things head on and and um with support, right? We don't have to do it alone.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

But you're so right, Jillanne, in in the fact that we put ourselves in this position of um, you know, am I good enough? Can I really make this? It's the imposter syndrome that pops up, and then uh without confidence, you can't, you're not good at pitching, and people will pick that up from your energy.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Right, right. And so when grantors are or investors, if you're approaching grantors or investors or individual donors, and if you're not confident in yourself to your capabilities, or you're not totally confident in your film idea, or you haven't done all the thinking around it, and there are some particular weak spots, you know, then people are gonna be a little hesitant to make the leap to support you, right? And because they'll be like, hmm, not sure this person even knows what they're doing, um, or not sure they're really, you know, so it's like that doing the house cleaning in ourselves is like, and I have to keep doing it. I've been doing filmmaking for 37 years. I have to keep doing keep doing this house cleaning. It's not effortless, it's not just like one and done, it's like a constant process, you know. Um, for me anyway. I think some people are born or nurtured in a way that they they might not need to do that, but I would say probably 80% of us out there need to keep tending to this little garden of receptivity and you know mindset.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Mindset is key. I I believe in all three for sure that there are angels here who will help you, and I think you have to call on the angel of confidence to be your co-producer. And oh yeah, yeah, I love that. Be there every day for you because uh there are good days and bad days, and you have to have an angel on your shoulder for the whole five or six years it takes to make your film. Yeah. So um tell us where we can go to get more information on the funding hub.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Well, it's right on the homepage of desktopdocumentaries.com. So that is desktop-documentaries.com, and you'll see right on the homepage there's a little banner for the doc funding hub.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Okay. Well, let's talk about your incredible cinematography because you shot for Netflix, CNN, PBS, and many more. So, how do producers find and hire you for your projects?

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Well, I think um it's a variety of ways. And you know, cinematography is just one way that I support myself while I'm making my own films, and I recommend this for filmmakers out there to find a skill that you really love or that you're really good at that you can, you know, charge a day rate for. And it it helps you put the whole package of of being an independent filmmaker together. Um, so I, you know, just it's word of mouth. There, I live in a small market in New Mexico. There aren't that many documentary cinematographers. There aren't, I'm one of very few female cinematographers, um, probably in the Southwest with this level of um experience. So I mostly it's word of mouth producers, you know, asking producers, but also I belong to this thing called um production hub, which is basically like a nationwide crew um networking site. And there are other ones out there. So, you know, for example, someone from um Boston posted a job recently to shoot a book trailer for an author who lives here, and I got the notice and I responded and sent them my reel and you know, got the little booking. So it was just a little half day thing. But other things like um, I just had a film come out at South by Southwest, a couple films actually that I worked on. One that I was the main DP called Creed USA, and that film I ended up working on for almost two years. Um, we would go to this little town called Creed, Colorado, once a month. The director was from New Jersey, but she heard about me from her friend who had come out here to film for one day during COVID for in 2021, and I'd worked for him for one day. Um, but you know, he recommended me and and she hired me for one shoot. And then we just really clicked. Uh her name is Kahani uh Cooperman, she's a wonderful director and person, and um, you know, so then I ended up working on that film through to the end, which was really amazing. And um, and then the tallest dwarf was at South by Southwest as well this past um March, and that was another um word of mouth thing, you know, the producers talk to each other, directors talk to each other. Oh, I'm shooting in Santa Vaya. Oh, okay, who do you know? You know, that kind of thing. So um I try to keep my reel up to date, but um, you know, somebody asks for it and just yeah, word of mouth. And it's it's you know, it's intermittent, it's not a constant thing, but it's a great way that I stay also really um up to date. I love working with other directors because I learn new things, you know, and and that's really wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yes. Um, the book Contagion talks about uh marketing. And when you close the back cover, Jillanne, you say to yourself, word of mouth is still the best marketing tool in the world.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Oh, funny. Okay, good. Yeah, and I think the film industry especially works on word of mouth, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Oh yes, very important. So tell me what uh of all the camera work you've done, what type of projects do you enjoy the most? And what are you looking for in a collaboration?

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Well, you know, I have to say, like working on so many different subjects and all that, and just kind of all kinds of random things. What I appreciate the most is collaborating with someone who's kind and and empathetic and you know, welcoming. And uh it's really about the people for me. You know, I think as we get older, we realize like, okay, it's it's about people and community and heart. And um, so to me, it's not even where I'm going or what I'm shooting, it's more about who I'm working with. Um like Kahani, who shot or who directed Creed USA. She's she's just I I can't I came to her after a particularly bad experience with another director who was just really insensitive. And you know, you just kind of grin and bear it, and you do your best work as you can. And but it was such a really breath of fresh air to to meet Kahani, who was really kind and like, how are you? and wanted to get to know me and just like wanted, you know, she looked out for her crew and she was um, you know, just a good person with good ethics, you know. I think that's really important. Good ethics, good um decision making around what are you asking your participants in the to do for your film? You know, are you being um are you being uh thoughtful or are you sort of being, you know, more um I can't think of the word, um you know, are you taking advantage of them by telling their story, or are you taking care and are you helping them leverage their voice? You know, there's so many different ways to approach a story and people and telling that story. So the best thing is to be working with really ethical, sensitive people, I think.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Absolutely. Um I've been working with a uh documentary film teacher who for 20 years um on a weekly, monthly basis. And one of the things she says, uh she's won an Academy Ward too, but one of the things she says is that when you start asking, when you're looking for your own crew and you're asking questions, uh, all you want to know is the most important question is how does this person get along with the crew? Right? Yeah. That's what she wants. And she says she will take people who are friendly and you enjoy working with over someone with more talent. Totally. This is it. I mean, you are stuck together work, and you it's it should be a fun time, an enjoyment because you're really using all of your creative energies together to collaborate. Uh, and the better the crew, the better the film, truly.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

You see, it is true. And with documentaries, you know, a lot of times you're going into really sensitive subject matter, sometimes even trauma, you know, and it's really important that you do that super carefully and thoughtfully.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Yes. Uh, but I have to say that I'm really excited that the American Society of Cinematographers now has a woman president. Did you hear that? Oh, yes, yes, I did. I saw that. That's so fantastic. It is because it wasn't too long ago that um they wouldn't even let a woman join. Brian uh uh was one of the first women to get a job in the union. You know, she went into the union, Jen uh, Gillianne, and she had a job. It was the catch 22. You couldn't get in the union uh without a job. And so you had to walk in there with the job to get the union to go work. So she goes in as a man running the union, as always. It was man, was son to uh father to son. It was the only way you got in there for a long time. But she goes in and says, Here, I have a job offer and here's my experience, and I want to join the union. And he said, Over my dead body. Oh God. So she waits. She killed him. Good filmmaker. So she waits, she gives the new guy about three months. She goes in. I have a job offer, and I want to be part of the union. Well, at least he said, uh, we'll think about it, and put her uh application in a drawer and closed it in front of her so she knew, well, he's just being nicer.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Fate stepped in and uh the Cancer Society called and said, Do you have a woman cinematographer? And he said, Of course we do. Got her first job uh with the Cancer Society because they were women's breast association, or they were working on a film about that. Well, that got her in, but it took another 10 years to get into the associate to the uh society because then their excuse was we only have one bathroom, and that's for men only. Wow. So you've been you're so lucky now. All of us are. We've made a major breakthrough. Brianne Murphy really helped all of us. Yeah. That's true. So tell us now, you had two films that you shot and they premiered at South by Southwest. That's really an achievement. Creed and the tallest dwarf. So what was it like to see those on the big screen?

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Oh, just so fun to be able to go to a big festival like that with it's such a celebratory atmosphere. And with Creed USA, you know, I'd worked on that for so long and was so close to the um director and the producer Inbo Shim and and the other, you know, crew, and also very got very like attached to the the cast, the participants in that film. And um, so that was really exciting. Also, I hadn't seen any cut of the film. So, you know, here you are, you're shooting your guts out for almost two years, and you haven't seen um it put together. So I was really curious and really excited, and um, that was wonderful to see what choices uh they made in the edit room. And then with the tallest dwarf, I I only shot one segment of that film, um, which was the Santa Fe stuff that they shot. And but I shot a really cool part of that film, which was we worked with some miniatures, and so we used macro lenses and and um there was sort of like a retelling of something through the use of miniatures, and so I was really curious about seeing what that looked like on the big screen, and that was really fun. Um, super awesome crew and and director as well, Julie Wyman. Um, and she it's a really kind of personal film. She she is in the film, and um, and it's it's a really beautiful, uh, sort of lyrical, poetic film as well. So, you know, those are just the high highlights. You you you really work hard, you get really dirty, you get exhausted, you know, and sometimes every once in a while you get to dress up and um pop the champagne. So you have to take advantage, and um, you know, that that was that's those are great moments.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

So exactly. Well, you receive support personally from Sundance, ITBS, and the Open Society Institute. So tell us how emerging filmmakers can get on the radar for these major funders.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Yeah, so I think be the best filmmaker you can be. Like there it these bigger players are are looking for new voices, but they also want the new voices to maybe have a producer alongside them who can help, you know, shepherd them in um and along because usually they're funding larger projects, right? That that really take on that the scope is usually pretty big in terms of how long it's filming or how much it's gonna cost or the the subject matter that it's broaching. So I think just you know, these are hard nuts to crack. It and um I think usually they're funding Sundance and IoTVS, usually they're funding you. Sometimes they have development funding, but usually you're getting money from these bigger entities when you're further along in the process. So when you have more to show, when you have a killer sample reel, so you've gone beyond the trailer stage and you have like a 10 to 20 minute sample that really rocks. You know, you might be halfway into shooting. Um, ITVS likes to be last money in. So you have to, even though they will give you a really sizable chunk of money, you've got to already have some, you know, skin in the game. So I think it's also sometimes a matter of applying several times. Um, Sundance will only let you apply if you're pretty further along than you were last time you applied. Um, but you know, for ITVS, I think we applied five times for our third project with them, which was Shakespeare Behind Bars. Um, so you know, we we're persistent and we, you know, the the open call is every six months. So you've been working on that film since the last time you applied. You've been working hard and you've got a lot to show for that. And they look at that too. They look at like, okay, last time they were here and now they're here. Okay, wow, they've really jumped. Okay, they're getting somewhere. You know, so it's persistence, it's really doing your homework in terms of what are they looking for right now. They'll tell you in their guidelines, they'll tell you with who they funded in the last round, where are their hearts and minds right now. Um, so it's it's really watching what they've been funding, doing the best you can, you know, spending a lot of time on those applications and doing them ahead of time so that you can let it sit for a few days, come back to it, look at it again, the application, make it better. You know, don't save it to the last day. But when it's the deadline. Even though Sundance does have a deadline coming up on midnight on the 14th of July. Um, but uh unfortunately ITVS has pushed their summer open call to winter um because of the you know the Trump uncertainties and everything. So anyway, hoping that gets resolved and that they will have a winter open call. But I think those are some things to keep in mind, and it's just like really putting work into that sample reel is hugely important.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yes, and a vision. So they need to have a vision of themselves winning one of these awards, an ITVS$250,000 grant or Sundance or Ellen Foundation, someone they have to create a vision in their mind, like a little film where they're being awarded and recognized for their work. So they have that too uh as the future. They've got to see their future to achieve it.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Absolutely. If you're not believing in yourself, why would someone else?

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Right. Well, finally, tell us one more time where our listeners can go to join the doc funding hub.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Yes, so you can go to desktop-documentaries.com. And um, just right there on the homepage is a banner for the doc funding hub. And um, there's an easy sign-up, and you know, again, you can cancel anytime. But I hope to see you there.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yes, what fun! Sounds like a lot of fun. Thank you so much, Jill Ann, for this interview. And Claire, thank you for hosting the show.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

As always, a great pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

So good luck with this, Jill Ann, and perhaps you'll come back next year and tell us how successful it is. That would be wonderful. Thanks, Carol. Thanks, Claire.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Okay, bye.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Be well, everyone. Thank you.