Award winning filmmaker Lisa D'Apolito discusses her biographical documentaries - Hosted by Heather Lenz

Our special guest this week is Lisa D’Apolito, an Emmy nominated producer and director who is also a dual citizen of the United States and Italy. She started as an actress in film, theater and television, and her roles included a part in “Goodfellas.”  She went on to producing and directing in advertising. Lisa’s documentary, “Love, Gilda,” was nominated for 2 creative Emmys. Lisa was named one of Variety’s 10 Documentarians to Watch in 2018 and SHOOT Magazines New Directors’ Showcase 2019.  Her recent films include Albert Pyun: King of Cult Movies which premiered at Comic Con and Shari and Lamb Chop, which is being theatrically released in 2025. Curently, she is working on a documentary about singer/songwriter Laura Nyro. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Today we are joined by our guest host, filmmaker Heather Lenz, best known for directing and producing the Sundance documentary Kusama Infinity. Our special guest this week is Lisa Dappolito, an Emmy-nominated producer and director who is also a dual citizen of the United States and Italy. She started as an actress in film, theater, and television, and her roles included a part in Goodfellas. She went on to producing and directing in advertising. Lisa's documentary, Love Gilda, was nominated for two creative Emmys. Lisa was named one of Variety's 10 documentarians to watch in 2018 and Shoot Magazine's New Directors Showcase in 2019. Her recent films include Albert Pune, King of Cult Movies, which premiered at Comic Con, and Sherry and Lamb Chalk, which is being theatrically released in 2025. Currently, Lisa is working on a documentary about singer-songwriter Laura Nero.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Well, thank you so much, Claire, for the introduction, and thank you, Lisa, for taking time out of your schedule to join us today. For anyone not familiar with your new film, Sherry and Lamb Chop, could you please describe it in your own words?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Sherry and Lamb Chop is about Sherry Lewis, who was a children's television performer in the 60s. And then she was very famous again with her a new show in the 90s. And Lamb Chop is her sidekick puppet, who's a cute little lamb.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah, and she's a ventriloquist. The film, I have to say, it kind of reminded me of sort of a combination of Mr. Rogers because of the children's show part and then the being Elmo film, but the the woman behind the men, I guess, you know, in the beginning. So how did you first learn about Sherry Lewis and what motivated you to make a film about her?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Well, I I knew she I wasn't watching her in her early shows in the 60s, and I wasn't watching her shows in the 90s, but I had known about her from like she was on Hollywood Squares and she was always on television with Lamb Chop doing something, but I really remembered Lamb Chop and loved Lamb Chop for some reason. And so um a friend of mine met um Sherry's daughter at a fundraising event, and he um he's uh has a production company and he knew I was looking for like an unsung hero and a female unsung hero. And he asked me if I would be interested in um Sherry and Lamb Chop. And I said yes, without really thinking about it, but then I started because I love Lamb Chop, and then I started researching Sherry, and I found out how amazingly talented she was, and I was pretty shocked about like her career and the longevity of it.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Yeah, she certainly was quite a trailblazer. Can you talk a little bit about the process of sorting through just the what must have just been a ton of archival footage to find the perfect clips to tell her story?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Well, I love archival. That's my favorite part of filmmaking is going through the past and looking at what you have and actually collecting it from people. So that was really that was we had um David Copperfield, the magician, had had Sherry's archives in his um warehouse. So we were able to get access to the stuff that he had, which was mostly all her every show she's ever made. Um, a lot of stuff, nothing nothing like home movies or anything personal like that, but a treasure trove of her her work and some interviews that we'd never seen before. And then I kind of went on a mission through friends and family to find the personal home movies. But it was really when we got to the edit with my amazing editor, Andrea Lewis, who really helped construct the story through the archival. And uh, that's why editors are so amazing. And Andrea started seeing in Sherry's work how she really used her puppets to say things that she normally wouldn't say in her life. And so that started to be um the archive that we started looking for. We started looking for examples where we saw Sherry using the puppets to say things. Like there's a scene where she's it's through she's having a hard time with her husband at the time. And at that time, she goes on a television show with Hush Puppy and starts talking about divorce and relationships. So we knew that that was kind of that's nothing that her puppets would ever talk about. So that's something that we know she was talking to her husband and the audience about. So that was kind of our archival had kind of a mission to both um show those examples and also the examples of Sherry's uh uh philosophy through towards children and towards people of really believing in yourself and being the best that you can be. So that was sort of we had messages that we were looking for.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Yeah, I think you did a great job. And just curious, I mean, Lewis is a pretty popular name, but I noticed the editor's last name is Lewis, just like the subject of the film. Is there any connection there? No, no connection whatsoever. And I've heard many uh documentary filmmakers say that they get pushback from potential funders when they pitch documentaries about someone who's no longer with us. And so I'm wondering if that's something you experienced. And if so, how did you overcome it and fund the film?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Well, I think what we had an initial um investor who helped us do a little shooting, and we put together a sizzle, and the sizzle was pretty strong. So, and this was in 20 maybe 19, where there was there was more funding for documentaries at that point. So we were we pitched it and you know, several different people came on board. So that was pretty, it was easy for some reason to get funding for this film. What wasn't easy was to get distribution for this film. So that's where where the challenge was.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

I see. Well, it's rare to hear someone say it's easy to get funding. So it's nice that that part worked out, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah, no, no, not in general. That was just with this project. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Uh and so during the making of the film, was there anything you wished you could have asked Sherry that you weren't quite able to find in the archival?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Um just more about, I mean, I was always into the personal Sherry, which was very, very difficult to unveil because she was very guarded in her real life. So I I guess I would have asked her more about um her challenges with her, what it was like those years between her shows and how she kept going because she did keep going and invent inventing herself. And I guess I would have asked her, was there ever a time that she wanted to give up? And um, how long did it take to make this film? Um, well, COVID hit, so that kind of was a damper in in shooting. So it took about maybe three three years, I would say. Three to four years.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

And uh previously you directed Love Gilda, which was also about a female trailblazer. And for anyone who hasn't seen that film, could you tell us a little bit about what it's about?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Um, it's about the um Gilda Radner, who was in the original cast of Saturday Night Live. And um, she was a very inspiring, both comedian and as an inspiration to people living with cancer.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

And how did you get interested in Gilda as a topic?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Well, I was working in advertising and um somebody came to my boss because they were doing um, they needed to do some pro bono free videos for Gilda's Club, which was a place for people with cancer in New York City, which was founded by Gene Wilder after Gilda had passed away. So I volunteered and I started just uh filming these videos of the members of Gilda's Club, where uh they would talk about Gilda. I mean, they would talk about the cancer, but Gilda was a shining light and an inspiration. And the clubhouse was filled with photos of Gilda and her presence was really there. So originally the film was meant to be a film for about Gilda's Club, and then it just sort of became more and more Gilda. But it was an independent project, so that was a totally different, different path that that film took.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

And Love Gilda was the first documentary feature that you directed. What did you learn from making that film that's helped you with your more recent work?

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Well, when I came from advertising, there was always a budget. So I guess what I really learned is how to maximize the money that you have and make it go as as far as possible. So that was, I mean, there was a lot of learnings. There was learning about working with a composer on an original score. I had I had worked with music houses and composers before, but on very short, short material, like commercials and um uh branded content that was maybe at the most 30 minutes. So I learned about working with what it's like to um work with a composer and how important it is to have music that supports the emotion of the film. So that was a learning, but there's a lot of learning. Um archival, how to organize your archives, because that's a really big project in itself.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

And you mentioned that Love Gilda was an indie film. Ultimately, how was the film funded?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Well, it was originally like self-funded in the sense that I would work like freelance, and then I would use the money to shoot a little, then I would go back to freelance and I would shoot a little, and then I did an Indiegogo campaign where I raised um uh some money, and then um I had some donations from the uh from the Radner family to help with that. And then once the film was everything was shot, I I always did labs and I always did pitch events. So I had another another situation where I had a really good trailer, and I had at this point I had uh some famous comedians or all the famous comedians that are in the film in the trailer. So I got into the um deal maker program at Hot Docs, and I was able to um, you know, meet different distributors, and then I met with CNN and they came on board to um with the funding to have to do the editing of the film and do all the finishing. So that's kind of the process of that is that I got it to a point, and then when the I needed, I you know, I was able to um to show people what I had and and get it to the next level. But I always did any kind of pitch that I could get into.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah, I mean it's great that it worked out that way. How long um did it take to make the guilda film? Um, that was about six years. And as mentioned earlier, you recently finished a documentary about Albert Pune. And for anyone who isn't familiar with Albert, could you please tell us who he was?

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Albert was the Edwood, I mean, you can consider him the Ed Wood of Hawaii. He was a director, um, a B movie director who just had a real passion for filmmaking and he has a great cult following. He did these post-apocalyptic films, and he did a lot of film with famous people like Jean-Claude Van Damme. He started his career. He was just uh you're kind of the essence of a do-it-yourself filmmaker, you know, trying to make a film on whatever money he had.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

One of the things I really loved about this film was the story about how the producers removed him from the edit of one of his films, and he was forced to shoot new pickup shots that he didn't really agree with. And so while he was on location with the actors, he shot his own movie, a different movie that he had creative control of using the same actors at the same locations. I mean, I love that story so much. And I wonder, do you have any favorite parts of the story or anything about his life that really stood out to you?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Well, Albert would do anything to make a movie. And he was always, he, even though he made these movies that he has one of the worst rotten tomato ratings of all time, he really approached everything as if it was a Godard or Fellini film. Like he really put his heart and soul into the movies. But I think what struck me about Albert is when I started filming him, he was pretty sick. Um, he had dementia, though he had pretty good long-term memory, and he was mostly bedridden, but he would still get out and go on location and and shoot something. And that was kind of, I was really inspired by that, his passion for filmmaking.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Well, I must say, you know, hearing you talk about, you know, your first film, which is a common thing that there's no money and people are self-funding things and you're trying to make stretch every dollar, it seems very similar to what he was dealing with financially with his films as well. Did you feel an affinity with him in that regard?

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Oh, definitely. And but uh Albert always wanted to do things his way. So his first movie made like$45 million, and he could have gone the Hollywood path. Like he was supposed to, he did a Captain America, he was supposed to do um a Spider-Man movie, like he could have gone that path, but Albert was never going to sell out his creative. And so I guess I always loved the fact that Albert would always stick to what he believed in, whether it was good or bad, it was still his opinion. But the idea of just I mean, I I guess it's something that any filmmaker, independent filmmaker will understand is like once you get excited about a film, like you're gonna make you're gonna do everything you can to try to make that film happen. Like, whether you do make it or not, it's just it gets hold of you and you just want to wanna make that film or you want to you just keep going. So that was kind of what I felt about Albert. And and we had a lot of conversations about um the industry and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

And this film premiered at Comic-Con. Could you talk a little bit about how audiences there reacted to the film?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Um, actually, I wasn't there, so I don't know how they reacted. I've I've it's played in different places in the around the world, in um genre festivals. It's played in Sitches, it's played in Korea, it's played in Brazil. Um, most of the people who who have seen it are Albert fans. And I think that they were not expecting to have such an emotional film, and I think they were not expecting to, because Albert has a sort of intro, his fan base is a lot of filmmakers, indie filmmakers themselves who are into horror and um genre film, and I don't think they were expecting to have a film that would make them cry or be emotional. So that was one of the the that was one of the responses that that I really loved.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Yeah. And um, I'm curious, you know, he's one of he's an early um Asian American filmmaker. Is there anything about that uh background that uh attracted a different audience, or does he have a strong audience, Asian background audience?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Um he has a pretty general act uh audience. He has a very strong Hawaiian um background because he's Hawaiian, he's half Korean and half um Japanese. So he has a really big Hawaiian audience. I don't know his demographics, but most of his demographics seem to be men, male men, more male, uh male dominating uh audience, it seems like to me.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

I I could see that in a way, although I must say I was um impressed to hear how much he liked these strong female characters too, like physically strong, like bodybuilding women and so forth, who were in some of his films. Um so uh currently you're working on a film about Laura Nero, and I'm wondering what attracts you to biographical documentaries, since clearly you, you know, this is the kind of work you've been making.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Well, I guess I love uh, I mean, I used to be an actress, so I'm very um this is a way for me to really I don't know, explore the character development, if that makes sense. So I just really love amazingly talented people because there's so many talented people, there's but very few geniuses. And I think that Laura is up there with Gilda and Sherry and Albert as a genius. So something that I think all of them are one of a kind. Like I don't think there'll ever be another I don't know if there could be another Sherry Lewis because she was just uh her background and the making of who she was and the development. I don't know if there'll ever be another Sherry Lewis. And so I guess that's what I'm really drawn to is I love these really talented people and I'm always really impressed by their sheer genius.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

And uh for anyone who's not familiar with Laura, could you please just tell us a little bit about who she is and how far along are you in the making of this film?

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Um Laura Nero was really famous in the late 60s, early 70s. And she um was really more famous as a songwriter than as a singer. At one point, she had three number one hits on as a songwriter uh in Billboard um on the Billboard charts. And then um she was able to sell her, she was David Geffen's first client, and he was able to sell her library. So the rest of so she was able to walk away from the music business in a sense and just kind of live the rest of her life doing the music that she wanted to do her way. So um she's not a well-known person, but in the general in the music population, singer-songwriters have been just like go crazy over Laura. So this is another, not self-funded, but this is sort of another film that is uh, I would say it's in development. Like we have some seed money, and with that seed money, I've been able to film some really famous people who love her. Like I filmed Elton John and Brandy Carlisle and Barry Manilo and Clive Davis and who else? Alice Cooper and Patty Labelle, who was her friend. So I've kind of on a doing a kind of different path now is just trying to get um, and then we have a little more funding to do her friends and family. So I'm hoping to get, so this is kind of, I'm not sure really sure where we're at. We're kind of in a um uh trying to figure out. I mean, I have a pretty clear idea of what the story is, but how we get the funding, I'm not sure how that's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

That's often the challenge, isn't it? And um, what advice would you give to first-time filmmakers who want to make a biographical documentary?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Well, I mean, money is the most challenging part, right? But if you're able to one thing that I'm not able to do is film and edit. So if you have that skill set to be able to shoot things yourself and edit them yourself, that really is a you're at such a you're at such an advantage to other filmmakers who are are trying to raise money to have other people film things and edit for them. So that would if I could go back in time, I would really learn how to shoot and how to edit and be much more self sufficient than I am.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Well, that is certainly good advice. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about where audiences can currently see your films. And you did mention, uh, since we have a little time here, you did mention that the distribution on your recent film about Sherry Lewis has been challenging. And I wonder if you could just talk a little bit in, you know, about that process of getting that film out into the world, how that has happened and how it's, you know, going to be happening in the months ahead.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Well, it premiered two years ago at Doc NYC. So it's taken now. Um, we were very lucky, and we have Keno Lober as our distributor. And we did um, we're in the pro, we're doing our theatrical release right now, and it's doing really well. Uh, it it's the film has been holding over in cities, it's been expanding um to more and more theaters, which is great. So I think there was the challenge with distribution was well, no one really knows who Sherry is, it's not a serious film, it's not it's uh so there was a challenge getting distribution for a while. And so I think, but it the I kept the film going by basically Jewish film festivals, love the film, and we would play all the time, and the film would sell out. So I knew that there was an audience for this film. So there's people who really enjoyed the film. So I think um just by keeping the film out there, it kept it alive until the right distributor or the right time came in.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Well, that's I think great advice for people who find themselves in that situation where they, you know, screened at a you know, had premiered at a festival and didn't instantly get a distributor. And um, if I understand correctly, uh streaming is on the horizon after the theatrical. Could you talk about that as well?

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah, I'm not sure of the exact date, but the next um, the next after this theatrical run, um, Kino Lobo is going to have it um uh on, you know, I guess it's called paid, paid paid advertising, like it'll be on Amazon, it'll be available on Amazon to buy and rent and on iTunes and every other distribution where you can rent and buy it, and it'll be available on DVDs, and then um hopefully it'll be uh through another streamer after that.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Great. And what about do you know where Love Gilda is streaming these days?

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Yeah, Love Gilda um was on Hulu for a while, but now it's actually free. You can watch it for free on YouTube and I think Tubi. So it's available out there in the world to watch for free.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Or and how just curious, as a filmmaker, how does that work for you having it free on YouTube? Do you get any kind of revenue from that?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Um, well, Magnolia is the distributor, so it's a it's a complicated. I'm not really sure how that worked. Because the film has been out there for a while. So it was on, you know, it was on um Culu and it was on like I think Amazon, you could pay for it to rent it. And now I'm not sure how what happens when it goes to the level of free.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yeah, I see. And the film about Elbert, I know you just recently finished it, but is that what how is that one making its way into the world? Could you talk about that as well?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Um, that is the producer is out there trying to get distribution and trying to make things happen. So for now, it's going to it's been playing it, it's actually pretty interesting because it plays along with Albert's film. It's not a full feature, it's 55 minutes. So um it'll screen along with one of his films at one of these genre festivals. So that's kind of fun.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Yeah, and I guess until recently that's a kind of length that would have been very favorable for PBS, but sadly we know that PBS is going away. So that's um unfortunate. But um hopefully it will, you know, continue to be seen. You know, I just watched it and I really enjoyed it. Uh for anyone who's interested in following your career, can you please share your social media handles, your website, any other social media handles you want to share for your movies?

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Um, I'm actually not on that much social media. I mean, I'm kind of old school and kind of stick to Facebook to um promote my films. So my personal is um Three Faces Films, which is my company. And then um I have Love the Love Gilda Facebook and Instagram page, which has turned into really more of a fan page for Gilda, which is fun. And then there's a Sherry, Sherry and Lamb Chop um page also.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

And um, is there anything I didn't ask you today that you would like to share with our audiences?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Um just it's so as everybody your audience probably knows. I mean, it's so it's so amazing when people finish films. And I guess I'm very lucky to have finished these films and I have so many amazing filmmaker friends who have done great work that they're struggling to get out there in the world. And eventually, I think eventually things come out. You know, there's new mediums and there's new ways to do things. So I think if you stick in, stick with it, then um it's it could be very disillusioning. And I think expectations, like I've lowered my expectations uh, because I think everybody wants to do a film that's gonna go to Sundance and then, you know, make a get it this big deal. And I think I've lowered my expectations in a way that I just want to um have the work be seen and enjoyed.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Well, I'm I'm I guess it helps to lower your expectations, although at the same time you have bills to pay like everyone else. So it is challenging. And I do wonder if if you don't mind me asking, like, are there any particular challenges that you've overcome in film that that you're able to discuss that um, you know, you at the time maybe you didn't see how you were gonna do it, but you you managed to overcome anything that might uh again inspire other filmmakers who are struggling to get their work made and seen and financed and all that good stuff?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Um, I think it's always a struggle to how you're gonna tell the story with the material like in an archival film like this, like you have ideas, but if you don't have the archive to support it, it's hard to tell the story. So um I think that um it's always a challenge, and always to have a great editor is probably the key to an archival film like this. I would say um, you know, the big but you know, truthfully, the biggest the biggest challenge is always financing. But um, you know, and I think there's always a point when you're in the edit where nothing is working and you just kind of go through that process and come out the other end.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yeah, well, certainly with documentary, the ways to edit these films are just infinite. So it does take a certain amount of you know, trying different things to see what you think is the best solution. So um, well, thank you so much, Lisa, for joining us today. We really appreciate it and looking forward to seeing your next film and you know, hoping the Albert film gets out there as well. And um uh yeah, just thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us today.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Well, thank you so much for having me. And um and it's great to be able to talk about filmmaking.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Well, thank you, and thanks everyone for listening.