The Art of Film Funding
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The Art of Film Funding
Mark Mori on The Baristas vs The Billionaires: Funding and Fighting for Change
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Mark is currently directing The Baristas vs The Billionaire and Executive Producing, Exiled From Hollywood, Orson Welles’ Lost Masterpiece. His first film, Building Bombs, was an Academy Award nominee, Best Documentary Feature some of his other notable projects include: Kent State, The Day the War Came Home, Emmy Award, News and Current Affairs; Blood Ties the Life and Work of Sally Mann, Academy Award nominee, Best Documentary Short Film; The Fire This Time, Sundance Film Festival Grand Jury Prize nominee and Writers Guild of America TV Currents Affairs Award nomination.
Discover how Academy Award nominated filmmaker Mark Maury raised funds and brought powerful labor stories to the screen in his new documentary, The Baristas versus the Billionaires.
SPEAKER_01Mark Maury is an Academy Award nominated documentary filmmaker, an Emmy Award-winning television producer writer, past chair of the nonfiction and documentary committee, Producers Guild of America, East, and president of Single Spark Pictures, Incorporated. His new film, The Baristas versus the Billionaires, will be released in the fall of 2025. Marx films have garnered international film festival awards as well as theatrical, TV, and digital distribution worldwide. He's produced, written, and directed documentary and reality series and specials for HBO, Showtime, BBC, PBS, Frontline, Fox TV, MTV, Discovery, AE, Bravo, MSNBC, National Geographic Channel, Investigation Discovery, Animal Planet, ZDF, and others. Mark is currently directing The Baristas versus The Billionaire and Executive Producing, Exiled from Hollywood, Orson Wells' Lost Masterpiece. His first film, Building Bombs, was an Academy Award nominee, Best Documentary Feature. Some of his other notable projects include Kent State, The Day the War Came Home, Emmy Award, News and Current Affairs, Blood Ties, The Life and Work of Sally Mann, Academy Award nominee, Best Documentary Short Film, The Fire This Time, Sundance Film Festival Grand Jury Prize nominee, and Writers Guild of America TV Currents Affairs Award nomination. And Carol, you've known and supported Mark Maury for many years.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I have, Claire. He's truly one of our most dedicated documentarians. So thank you, Mark, for joining us.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you, Claire. And hi, Carol. I'm so thrilled to join you. Yes, we've known each other for, I don't know, it's going on 30 years, I think. And I'm just uh thrilled to be talking to you today.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. We have so much to learn from you. So first let's go to the Spark. So what drew you to the story of the baristas and versus the billionaires? Why did you feel that this was the right moment for a labor documentary?
SPEAKER_00Well, this about four years ago, I started noticing an upswing in the labor movement. The Amazon workers on Staten Island in New York were uh trying to organize a union. I actually went out and visited them and talked with them. And then I saw where the uh Starbucks baristas were starting to organize a union. And given my past experience, I worked for five years in a steel mill myself. And in fact, I was also worked in a grocery warehouse where I ran a machine that roasted the coffee beans for the whole cough, the whole grocery chain. So I'm even connected with the baristas slightly in that way. But so I realized that we were on the on the very beginning edge of a new labor movement and a new sort of populist upsurge in this country. So I I knew the film, this idea for this film would have legs if I could get it made.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Getting it made, that's a that's a long-term situation. You know that from your experience, right? Well, let's talk about the financing strategy because funding labor-focused docs can be tricky. And so, how did you structure the financial foundation for this project? Was it grants or donors or equity or partnerships?
SPEAKER_00Well, there's no equity, it's a nonprofit project, and you were generous enough, Carol, to be a sponsor, a nonprofit sponsor from the Heart Productions, and I'm thrilled to have you do that. So we did get some grants, and also we our whole staff of producers and writers worked for free. We all, or we deferred our fees, put it that way. We haven't gotten paid yet. We hope to someday, but we all came to, I brought together a group of talented people who uh saw the need for this kind of a film because of the political and economic crisis that's going on in the world and in this country. So uh among our group that came together is two Academy Award wins, 10 Academy Award nominations, one Grammy Award, two Grammy nominations, and that's just the tip of the iceberg of the people that came together because they saw the importance of making this film.
SPEAKER_02How exciting! What a great crew! Wow. Uh, so now let's talk about the impact goal. So um what do you envision as traditional distribution? Do you think this film uh will fuel activism or policy confront uh converse conversations or union organizing? How do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_00Well, that's really the purpose of the film is is to be an inspiration in in the very specific way for these baristas. They've been organizing uh with Starbucks for a union for four years now, and Starbucks has refused to have a national contract, and there's now uh 650 or more than 650 Starbucks stores that are unionized with more than 12,000 union members after starting from a single store in Buffalo, New York. And that's really the story of the film is it tells that story. And so uh they're they're now trying to still get their contract, and they they may be even going on strike later this year if they don't get the contract from Starbucks. So the the real purpose of the film is to fuel activism, to educate young people about uh how you organize a union, to give them inspiration. I mean, this this is young people in their 20s who are taking on the billionaire class. And I think that can be an inspiration for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02Oh, of course it is. It's the way they have to do it because otherwise we're gonna lose all our unions. It's it has to come from the ground up, the young people. So that's marvelous. There are 12,000 unionized already.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's correct.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that is a really good beginning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're in there in 40 cities, so the part of the idea is is to work with the union to do screenings to uh encourage the uh the baristas in in in organizing against Starbucks, and we'll be uh doing screenings in local cities in conjunction with the Starbucks Workers United Union and other unions.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that would be great. Let them bring their friends and everyone in there to help. Well, and I know from my discussions with you that in the beginning so many people were fired, are uh under a lot of stress from wanting to be in the union. So have they has uh the business side of it released some of that pressure on the employees or not?
SPEAKER_00Well, no, I think what'll be shocked a lot of people. Starbucks has this reputation for being this progressive company, a good place to work with good benefits. That's what attracted a lot of young people. But I think people will be shocked when they see how brutal Starbucks treats its employees. Uh they are they're unable to get the health care, the number of hours. No, no, nobody at Starbucks, no barista, is considered full-time. And the local managers can completely control their hours as to whether they can qualify for benefits. They have to get a certain number of hours to qualify for benefits. And if if a manager doesn't like what you're doing, you know, maybe you've said something about the union, they will uh cut your hours. The average pay, the median pay of a Starbucks barista is something a little over $14,000 a year, while the CEO of Starbucks makes, I think he made $96 million last year. This is the biggest pay disparity of any corporation in America.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, I've never heard of such a thing. Oh, that's incredible. $14,000 and they work so hard. I mean, they are pushed constantly to get the coffee made and keeps and they're on their feet all day.
SPEAKER_00That's a tough Starbucks has fired something like more than 150, I don't remember the exact number, 150 union organizers across the country. It's it's done many illegal things. It's hired a union busting law firm. Uh, you'll see all of these things I'm talking about, you will see in the film. Uh and um Starbucks was even hauled before Bernie Sanders Senate Committee and grilled about all of these illegal union busting tactics. And of course, Howard Schultz, the the then CEO of Starbucks, uh denied that they were doing anything illegal, but they had been found to do a lot of illegal activities by labor board law judges. And because they're appealing, Howard Schultz likes to say, Oh, well, we haven't done anything illegal. That's like you're convicted of murder and you're on appeal, but you say you haven't done anything illegal. I mean, that's that's the kind of mentality that Starbucks management is uh is operating with.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, well, is he no longer the president?
SPEAKER_00Did they push him? He he he was the CEO three different times. He actually came back for the third time to bust the union, to try to stop the union movement. And really, one of the key scenes we have in the film is when Howard Schultz brought a hundred managers, Starbucks managers to Buffalo, which is more people than were voting in the union election there, and flooded all the local stores with all these managers, including like the chief operating officer, the president of Starbucks North America. They abandoned running Starbucks in order to go into these stores and to try to pressure and talk these baristas out of voting for the union. And in the meeting, which we have, we show this meeting in the film, uh, one 19-year-old barista, Gianna Reeve, stands up to Howard Schultz and her stand turns the whole union drive around and leads to the success of the union.
SPEAKER_02Oh, marvelous. Yes, I've seen that. That is inspiring. Well, uh, your narrative choices are important. So, how did you balance the intimate human stories of the baristas with the larger political and corporate forces in the film?
SPEAKER_00Well, that's the really uh one of the key things to a film like this. And um, of course, we have these great personal stories of six baristas in Buffalo, New York, where the whole thing started at a single store and then just mushroomed around the country. We also have the story of the uh baristas in Memphis, seven of whom were all fired in one day by Starbucks, the Memphis seven. The labor board reinstated them in their jobs and ordered Starbucks to give them their back pay, which Starbucks has refused to do. That case went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. So, I mean, it it, you know, people may have seen in some of their local news some of these labor actions, but the the big story and the significance of this has really not been told. So that's what we're we're trying to do in this film. And so you have these personal stories as part of this bigger picture of the billionaires uh uh expanding the wealth gap, uh, taking everything for themselves and grinding down millions of workers in this country. So the the we have a labor expert in our film, Rachel Donaldson, a labor historian, who helps put what these baristas are going through in the bigger context of the American labor movement and where that stands.
SPEAKER_02Well, well, just uh thinking about the cost of the attorneys to for the lawsuit just to pay them the back wages. The back wages can't be that much money, relatively speaking. And attorney's fees of what, six, seven hundred an hour would uh it's got to be 20, 50 times the amount more spent on attorney's fees.
SPEAKER_00My information is that Starbucks has a whole building of lawyers that they pay $1,200 an hour. Or something like a year ago, I had read that Starbucks had spent $250 million trying to crush the union. So they've spent far more trying to crush the union than if they had just given people raises and treated them decently.
SPEAKER_02Oh my God. That's thank you so much for sharing that with me. That's terrific information. It's it is senseless. I guess that what are they looking 20 years down the road to see what the the extra fee would be? It can't be on their budget sheet, it can't be more than two, one or two percent uh of their overhead.
SPEAKER_00These are yes, it's about control, it's about uh exploitation, it's about, you know, this this is an echo of stories from labor history past. I mean, I assume many of us have read about, you know, workers in textile mills in the in the 1920s, workers in auto factories in the 1930s that were treated very badly and had to fight hard for unions. Well, we're sort of having a version of this today.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, I can see that. I mean, uh none of this has reached the newspapers. I don't even see it online, definitely it's not on television. And and even uh the creating the union is a downplay. That's not uh front page news, and it should be.
SPEAKER_00Well, we've got, I mean, the the media in this country has basically become corporate propaganda, and to the extent that they report labor stories, they mischaracterize them or they diminish their significance, or mostly they ignore them. So you're right about that. But it's this sort of the same billionaire corporate power structure that's running the media as running corporations like Starbucks.
SPEAKER_02Right. Wow. Well, uh let's look at the production challenges you've dealt with, because documentaries about active labor disputes carry risks like legal, ethical, and personal. And so, what precautions did you take to protect the team and the subjects?
SPEAKER_00Well, we with all of our subjects, we made clear with them what we were doing, what we how we wanted to use the film and get it out there. And of course, they want to, they're fighting this tough battle and they want their story told because they, as we just described, it's not being told in the media. And so they were, they've they've already some of them had been fired by the time I uh interviewed them, and others were fired after they interviewed after I interviewed, not because I interviewed them, just because they continued to be active in the union in Starbucks. So uh they they are, as far as I know, they are not worried about the you know what what bad things might come to them because of being in the film. They want the film to uplift their movement. And of course, then we're taking on a big corporation. So I've got uh uh lawyers have uh thoroughly vetted the whole film. They've gone over the thing with me word for word, picture by picture. And uh I have an errors and omission insurance policy that protects me should we be sued. So uh, of course, that you know, uh Howard that might not stop Howard Schultz, but uh that's uh that's that's the kind of precautions we take.
SPEAKER_02Right. No, I don't think anything is gonna stop him at the moment, except for the board. So um the part that I saw where uh Howard talked about uh his his mother, I think, or his grandmother in Auschwitz and how every person it was one blanket to every eight people. Is that right? Something like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was one blanket for six people, yes.
SPEAKER_02Right. And so they had to share their blankets, and he's telling people at Starbucks what they have to share uh the load and work for nothing. I couldn't get the collection.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is how tone-deaf and out of touch Howard Schultz is, and it's it's it's kind of amazing that Howard Schultz would invoke uh Jewish Holocaust uh prisoners in concentration camps sharing their blanket. That that's maybe the single most outrageous moment in the film. You see these words come from his lips in the film. You see the baristas' reaction to this. I mean, they were completely outraged. One scene that's not in the film that we may release later is one of the baristas who was at that meeting, his uh his uh grandmother was a victim of the Holocaust, and he used to hear her wake up in the middle of the night screaming. And so this is the kind of thing how Howard comparing the baristas to Holocaust survivors is I mean, they were just completely shocked, as anyone would be.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So he's not in touch with reality as far as what's going on.
SPEAKER_00Well, I it seems like a lot of the billionaire class is not in touch with reality.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, um let's talk about team building because you've worked with networks like HBO, PBS, National Geographic. So, how did assembling the right crew differ for this indie labor-centered film? You just didn't have a budget to go after the people like before, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, obviously, we're working with a smaller budget because we're completely independent. We wanted to be in control of how this film is told, not have it watered down by some corporate interest. Um, and so, you know, when you're doing something for one of the networks you mentioned, you know, you've you've got your financing going in, you've got a budget, you're hiring the best people you can for the money and so forth. This was a this, the baristas versus the billionaires, completely different in the sense that we came together as volunteers. Uh, we agreed to defer our fees until after the film was finished, and hopefully we'll get something that from the distribution of the film. And we had more and more people join us along the way of making the film as they saw the importance of what we were doing. So, this is a is an you could call this a kind of an activist volunteer effort. And I tell you, people are so hungry for change in this country and for doing something about what's going on that people were happy to donate their services to the film.
SPEAKER_02Oh, marvelous. Because that energy ends up in the film, it is there, this caring, nurturing, supporting. Um we're bringing you information you've never seen before, and it's urgent that you pay attention because we must save the unions. And this Starbucks is, I think, the key. It's like a linchpin. And if that domino goes down, I don't know that we'll ever be able to really bring the unions back. Because with all the kids that are out there, young people working at Starbucks, this is a very important moment.
SPEAKER_00Well, I agree with you 100%, Carol. And uh the I have called this the most important labor battle of the 21st century. And one of the interesting statistics that you find out in this film is that today, 70% of Americans are favorable towards unions. That's the highest rate since 1965. And I think many people are just looking around for uh a way to uh develop some. Collective strength to defend themselves against all these attacks by the billionaire class.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. They've got too much control. So, all right, let's talk about festival and release plans because the film is set for release in fall of 2025. So, can you share your strategy for festival premieres, theatrical or digital platforms?
SPEAKER_00Well, certainly, Carol, yes, and thank you for asking that. Um, the film has its world premiere on Friday, October 10th, as the opening night spotlight of the Buffalo International Film Festival. And we're going to Buffalo very specifically because that's where this whole thing started. Much of the story of the film happens in Buffalo. It was at a single Starbucks store in Buffalo, New York, the Elmwood Avenue store, where this whole thing started. And it started, and it it's, you know, uh, there's an old Chinese proverb, a single spark can start a prairie fire. And that's what this story is. It's a the single spark of that one uh that one uh store, that one Starbucks store, people were ready to take some action and to organize a union at Starbucks. And uh like I say, this can serve as an inspiration for a lot of people. So then we're going to um going to be on October 19th at 4:30 p.m. at the Sunday, October 19th at the Cinema Village. We'll be screening at the Workers Unite Film Festival in New York City. So if you're in New York or Buffalo or in those areas, please come out. I mean, even if you're not, please uh support the film on social media and encourage people. And then we'll be we'll be uh entering other film festivals through the winter and the spring. And uh we are making some plans for some theatrical and community screenings. We certainly want community groups and unions to reach out with to us, and we're reaching out to them to develop plans to complete completely bypass the theatrical system if we need to to get this out to people as much as possible. And of course, it will be um available digitally and very likely yet on PBS uh at some point later next year.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Oh, that sounds wonderful. Yes. If you can keep control of this and do it yourself, it'll be so much more effective because you can put it in the right areas where you've got the right audience and you have people supporting it in each city, you could do quite well that way because this is the people that need this, they need the empowerment in your film.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yes. Well, thank you. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, tell us how people can reach you and learn more um about your films.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, we have a website, baristas versus billionaires.com, and we're active on all the social media: Instagram, Facebook, X, Twitter, uh, TikTok, Substack. Uh, we're we're cranking up our uh social media now. And you can, if you go to our social media, you can see little short testimonies of the baristas who appear in the film. We've taken clips of their interviews and and put them on the internet to give people an idea of of what's really going on with Starbucks and the union.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's very powerful. Good thinking. So let's go do a career reflection, because your film Building Bombs was wonderful. Then you did The Fire This Time, that was a terrific film, and Kent Estate. So your work often tackles social justice and history. So, how does this new film continue that legacy?
SPEAKER_00Well, I've always been about trying to make positive change. I mean, I was in my earlier career, I mentioned I worked in a steel mill. I was an activist in that realm uh before I became a filmmaker. And I just looked at filmmaking as a different way of social activism to inform and uh inspire people and to try to organize them to make change. And so really every one of my films has dealt with that in some way or another, as you mentioned.
SPEAKER_02Wonderful. Yes. Well, I want to talk to you about the Arson Wells Project, because you're executive producing, exiled from Hollywood, Arson Wells' last masterpiece, or his lost, sorry, lost masterpiece. So, what excites you about that project, and how do you juggle two very different films at once?
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you for asking about that. And yeah, see, I'm executive producer on that film, so I'm not, it's not like the same level of uh time and commitment as uh as uh directing and producing my own film. So I'm mainly trying to help them raise money and advise them. And um that's Joshua Grossberg's film, but it's it's it's an untold story about Orson Wales. And Orson Wales himself was kind of a um, you could call, he was kind of a politically conscious, politically active guy when you look into his career. And I think he was a little too much for the Hollywood establishment. Uh and so he had made his, as a lot of people know, his first film. Well, the the film this is about is called The Magnificent Ambersons, which was his second film. Um and he was kind of this boy wonder in Hollywood. Um and but but after he made his first film, which is is some consider it the uh the greatest film ever made, um, and I'm blanking on the title right now, which is crazy. Uh, but anyway, I'll think of it in a second. But um he he was uh he was asked by Nelson Rockefeller, who was one of the uh owners of the Arkeo Studio where he had his deal to go to Brazil and make a film, a documentary for the dictator of Brazil. So Brazil would be on the U.S. side in World War II. That was the purpose of it. Well, he had he was just in the finishing stages of uh of his uh first film. Um, you know, that's the one about uh Hearst. Uh he uh went after he left to go to Brazil, then they took away the magnificent Ambersons, took control from him, chopped it up. He thought it was going to be even greater than his first film. They they they chopped it up, shot a different ending, and kind of ruined it. So that's the reference to the lost masterpiece. And his version of it that was sent to him in Brazil before it was finished, uh, the only known print was left in Brazil in the 1940s. So that's that's the lost masterpiece. So it's kind of this holy grail from uh film to find the original version of the magnificent Ambersons. But it's it's really about how how uh how the Hollywood, partly about how the Hollywood establishment exiled and uh uh treated very badly, uh, probably one of the most brilliant filmmakers ever.
SPEAKER_02Well, yes, they sent him down there and then cut him off, cut off all the money and left him, is what I've read.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah, that's true, yes.
SPEAKER_02And but the thing of it is that the version that they put out for uh for the magnificent Amberson. So it's one of my favorite films. It's a magnificent film, it's got everything going, but then the end it just collapses. So whatever Hollywood did to it was hard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they they yeah, they shot another ending that was uh, you know, how Hollywood is, they wanted a feel-good ending. And really that that both both of those films, Magnificent Amberson than his previous, they were sort of had this political purpose, which is he was, and that was part of the problem with Wells, is they he was sort of, in that sense, biting the billionaire hand of that day in both of these films. So um, you know, the the first film he made, uh uh William Randolph Hearst offered NGM $800,000 to buy that film so they could bury it. Uh and luckily that didn't happen.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And and part of what we want to do is bring young people to uh to uh an appreciation of Orson Wells as a filmmaker. And uh of course, we we shot this most of this film in Brazil. We got some money from Turner Classic Movies to shoot it, so now it's being edited.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you are in edit on the film.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Great. Do you know when it'll be finished?
SPEAKER_00Well, I know we need to raise some money to finish it. So if anybody listening to this has any ideas about that, we're open.
SPEAKER_02So yes, this is very important. No, it's uh where is it? Have we uh you're still looking for it that you do believe somewhere that's not been destroyed, but it's in some vault.
SPEAKER_00Well, I yes, I have to say we developed some uh new leads, and of course, we before the film comes out, we can't say exactly what the status is, but um um yeah, so so it's uh it's uh we we we we got in touch with people who either knew Orson Wells from back then or had been involved in some of his filmmaking activities and were film collectors in Brazil. So we we've uh dug deep on this and hopefully people will find out when the film comes out.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I can't wait. That sounds great. So um let's talk about funding wisdom for indie filmmakers listening. What are the top lessons that you've learned about raising money for documentaries over your career that you can share with them?
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, um well, I would say it takes uh you have to have a real passion and commitment and sort of uh uh you know, raising the money is is is for an independent film that's not financed by Netflix or somebody, you know, that that can be very difficult. And so um you need to be able to identify sources of funds, uh maybe wealthy people who uh who uh like the topic of your film. But most of all, you just have to get in there and make it. And I would say one of the things to do maybe is to make a little five or ten minute reel that shows what your film is and could be, and use that to raise the money for the film for film. In other words, raise a small amount, smaller amount of money, 20, 10,000, $20,000 if you can. Or if you can just go out and shoot something, edit it yourself, edit a little 10-minute piece and then use that to raise more money or to raise the money you need.
SPEAKER_02Proof of concept film.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, yes.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, because uh my daughter kept using that term, and she actually convinced the Ethos Film Festival to put a section for proof of concepts, and it they were flooded with and they had some great uh films that are in the making, uh, and that whole idea is just emerging. It's a great idea, Mark. Um, that's really the best way because you can pitch all day, but when people see that you have the talent to make a short film, that's harder than making a long film, really. So they then they get the uh proof that you have the ability to finish and make a film. I think that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_00Yes, Carolyn. I want to say I was a little embarrassed that I didn't remember the name of Orson Wells' film, Citizen Kane.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I can't for yes, I was trying to bring it up. Isn't that funny?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's like I said, many consider it the greatest film ever made. And Orson Wells thought the magnificent Ambersons before it was destroyed by the Hollywood executives was even better than that. And it and even as badly as they tore it up, it still won some Academy Awards.
SPEAKER_02Yes. But what did he really envision? That's what we have to find. And thank you very much for working on that, because it means a lot to all of us who love his work.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02You know, I'll tell you one of my favorite stories about Orson because he was this uh boy genius, right? So he had the T the radio show going, and across town he was in a play. So he couldn't he had a time commitment there to get from one side of New York to the other during traffic. So he hired an ambulance to drive him across town every night. You can do that, you know, and so he could zap through the traffic and and make it to the stage on time for the play after finishing his radio show.
SPEAKER_00He was and it was it was on the radio where he did the War of the Worlds. Most people have heard the story where it was like he was doing this radio play, fake invasion of Martians on Earth. But so many people thought it was real that they actually thought we were being invaded by Martians. And it was the success of that that got him the three-picture deal in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_02Amazing, isn't it? And then uh when he came back from uh Brazil, as my understanding goes, he went to Rita Hayworth and begged her to help him to be part of a film. And then he wrote uh or found uh Lady of Shanghai, which was an incredible film, just the scenes in the uh with the mirrors in the uh magic house that he used in existing uh uh locations and made the most of them. He was very smart that way.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I think, you know, uh you could go to film school just watching uh Orson Well's films, and you know, he was a great innovator, and that there was a lot of innovative things he did in Citizen Kane. And um that that mirror scene you describe in the lady, by the way, he was married to Rita Hayworth, he got married to her. Uh but that that mirror scene is is a really uh an iconic scene, and he's been so influential on on many filmmakers across the years.
SPEAKER_02That touch of evil is my favorite.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great film, yes. And and he's it he's in it, he's in it as an actor.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And the first what, seven minutes, Mark, are incredible because it's all one take.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's one continuous shot. And when you watch it, that there you there again, you know, it's another film school right there.
SPEAKER_02It is, it is. Uh, I love it. So he teaches us a lot. If you go back and watch his films, so uh let's talk about the evolving landscape here. How's the market for socially conscious documentaries changed since the early days when you made building bombs?
SPEAKER_00Well, things have changed a lot, and I have to say, not really for the better. I mean, when I made Building Bombs, that was released in 1989, uh, that was like the heyday of independent filmmaking. And now today you've got a few streamers who are had financed most of the documentaries, and they seem to want more like wallpaper. They they seem to be avoiding political documentaries, controversial issues. And um I think they're they're either conservative in their own right or they're afraid of fending the powers that be. And so this is why you for independent filmmakers, we have to find um uh an independent means of distribution, to not you have to kind of go outside of the system to do grassroots, you know, organization like us working with unions and community groups and distributing our film. I mean, that's the kind of approach you have to take. And hopefully, if there's enough of an upsurge and you demonstrate that there's a real audience for the film, which is what we're doing, then you can get on some bigger venues, bigger mainstream uh streamers and television and so forth.
SPEAKER_02Right. And but the main thing is by doing it yourself like this, you get the film to the people who make the difference. This film needs to be seen by the young people and by all the activists and union workers to realize that the that the future's in their hands. This is the time to work on it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and I the these young people in Barista's versus the billionaires, I found really inspiring, and which is is is what inspired all of us who worked on this, you know, the whole our whole team of people uh really inspired us to uh work on this for three years and get it out there, and now we're working hard to promote it. So I hope people will go out and see the film, or they will get in touch with us or or promote the film on social media, spread the word, because that's the way it's when by doing this thing ourselves and spreading the word among ourselves is the best way to change the situation that we're facing, which is uh um, you know, there's a lot going on that needs to be changed.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. So, how can what is the website they could go to to get the uh view uh where the film is screening and when?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a it's it's barista's versus VS, baristas vs billionaires.com, and we have our screening times and other information about the film there. So please go there. And also if you sign up, you get a free film poster, electronic film poster.
SPEAKER_02Oh, goody. All right, I'll do that. Electronic film poster. That's what we need to do. We've got to support each other and particularly independent films. So thank you, Mark, uh, for sharing your wisdom and your experience with Jay, because the ver this journey that you've taken with the film is an inspiring reminder of the power of documentary storytelling to spark change. And that's the name of your company, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Single spark pictures, yes. It refers to that Chinese proverb that I mentioned earlier.
SPEAKER_02That's what it takes, a spark. And thank you all for listening. Uh, if you'd like more resources on funding or finishing your films, look at FromTheHeartProductions.com. And I look forward to bringing you more conversations to help you fund and share stories that matter. Thank you from our heart, Mark Moray, for your brilliant advice.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, Carol. It's it's wonderful to have you be part of this independent film community and for you to support so many filmmakers.
SPEAKER_02Oh, how kind. All right. Um onward and upward, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Thank you very much. Goodbye.
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