From Script to Screen to Strategy: Spade Robinson on the New Era of Filmmaking

Spade Robinson is an award- winning screenwriter and director, with experience that spans feature film, documentary, television, commercial and theater.  Spade is the owner of full service production company, Spade Ink Media, producing and developing a slate of film, television and podcast projects.  Spade is also the owner of Atlanta Film Project, a screenplay and documentary consulting firm, helping storytellers and companies to tell the most compelling version of their stories.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:14

What does it take to thrive as a screenwriter and producer in today's evolving film industry? Award-winning filmmaker Spade Robinson joins us to reveal how storytelling, strategy, and business savvy come together to shape the future of independent film.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Welcome to the Art of Film Funding, where we empower independent filmmakers to fund, produce, and distribute their work with heart, strategy, and creativity. Carol Dean, president of From the Heart Productions, is thrilled to welcome an extraordinary storyteller who lives at the intersection of vision and viability. Spade Robinson is an award-winning screenwriter, director, and producer whose experience spans feature films, television, theater, and documentaries. She's the founder of Spade Inc. Media and Atlanta Film Project, where she helps filmmakers and companies tell the most compelling version of their stories while staying grounded in the realities of business. In this episode, we'll dive into the future of filmmaking, the evolving landscape of screenwriting, and what it takes to thrive creatively and financially in a rapidly changing industry. If you're a filmmaker, ready to step into your power as both an artist and a business person, this episode is for you. Stay with us. You're about to hear insights that can shape your next big move. And Carol, I know you're excited to share Spade's wealth of information. I'll turn this interview over to you.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Thank you, Claire. Well, Spade, you're a director, screenwriter, producer, and founder of multiple companies. So the question is, how do you balance creativity with business in today's film world?

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Historically, not well. Mainly because not the business is not just the function of doing business, but so much brainstorming, so much understanding the marketplace as it changes, understanding the different platforms, promotion, marketing. A lot of that has uh taken up a lot more of my energy than I originally anticipated when I started these companies. And it's part of the reason why I lean into spade ink media to be able to combine doing the business and being sustainable with creativity and diving into more projects that are creative and are from my point of view as an artist. Um, and then Atlanta Film Project, of course, gives me the opportunity to lean into teaching, which I'm very passionate about because of the need for transparent transparency in the industry. Um, when it comes to balancing time, I honestly still find and look for ways to organize my time well. So I'm I'm probably gosh, probably three weeks into a brand new system that I'm trying on for size to make sure that I can weave these things in. So what I'm trying right now, in case this is useful to anybody else, is literally just a spreadsheet in uh in Google Drive that I'm able to give myself a week of task and break them down into whether they these are personal or Spain Ink Media or Atlanta Film Project and track how they're going, like a lot of those platforms like Asana and stuff like that, but this gives me a little bit more flexibility. Um, and that does seem to be working, but again, as a business owner, I am have the freedom to manage my own schedule, but also it is completely my responsibility to make sure that one thing doesn't overtake the next. And when it comes to running a business, there are so many things that feel outside of your control. If a client books time on my calendar, I'm going to spend that time with them and I'm going to prepare by reading their script. Everybody I work with, I am obsessed with you as a writer. I'm obsessed with your script. It's the my favorite script that I've ever read by the time I finish it, and you're my favorite writer by the time that we get on a call, and it's my goal to over-deliver, um, to give you literally everything that's in my brain. Um, and so that of course is going to carve out time where I may be writing something or I may be filling out an application. I can't tell you how many times that I've missed deadlines just because they've passed by and I planned on applying, but I just didn't have the capacity in my schedule to finish the script or do that rewrite or fill out the application that takes a day and a half. So, to be honest, I'm still figuring that out for myself. Um survival, I mean, I'm sure most artists will identify with this. Survival is such a big part of what takes over my schedule. And it's not something I can put on the back burner because I can't not survive and still be an artist, right? So I I don't have it all together. Um, in terms of the systems that I feel like do work, it is being able to take things that do not need my brain off my plate. Um, and out of all the things that I've tried over the years, including this document that I just told you about, and I've tried a lot of systems, the only thing that I swear by, and I will always make space for it, if if it is at all feasible, is uh hiring an assistant. And I am not someone with uh great amount of wealth or anything like that, but I will do what it takes. I will eat ramen noodles, as they say, to make sure I can pay her. Because the ability to take things that do not need my specific brain off my plate allows me not only the ability to do things, but the clarity of mind to make a strategy to figure out how I'm even managing my schedule. Otherwise, I'm just responding to things all the time, and I don't even have the space to come up and design a system that's gonna work specifically for my life because I am constantly responding to different types of stimuli, whether it's abilities to be paid, or I get a client, or I'm teaching a class, or I get an opportunity or something like that, or something comes up and I spend all of my time getting a script ready to apply to a fellowship. Um, that can come at you really fast. And I think if there are artists out there that are looking to balance owning a business and running a business and being an artist, or working a job and being an artist, or being a person who is raising a family and being artists, if you're looking at balancing any of those, um, I would say that this is something to consider. And it could be your version of that, right? So it doesn't have to be the version I have. Um it could be a version where there's someone on Fiverr who you pay a few hours to go through your emails and reply to things. It can be someone who sets up your social media, and social media is something that you now don't have to work, worry about. Um I think that's been the biggest asset that I've found, but I won't pretend that I, you know, have it all together.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

But that's brilliant. I think that's most important to realize that you do need help. This is what I tell filmmakers. You have to support yourself. So do you ever get to hire filmmakers who are in college or still in the educational session so that they have a credit on a film when they get out or credit on a screenplay or something?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

You know, I've attempted to bring in um, because film is an apprentice-like business. In my perspective, it's sort of always been that way. And the way that people learn, even if you go through some kind of formal education, the way that you learn more of the intricacies of it, the protocols of it, the culture of it, um, is by being there, you know, in person, onset, or in a writer's room or whatever. And so because of that apprentice-like culture around film and television, I've always wanted to work with college students and help them get their feet wet, whether it's onset or um just working on the business side. Um, and we'll probably get to that a little bit later in terms of how important that is. Um, you know, I've reached out to different colleges and universities to get different types of interns, both paid opportunities and for college credit. And I I I haven't gotten a response over the years of college students either desiring that kind of opportunity or sort of seeing the value and being behind the scenes. And to be honest, I don't know how much I valued it um when I was in college. I wanted to, my first job at a film school um was an internship at a production company. And I thought I was gonna go the executive route, and I thought that was going to be helpful. Um little did I know, there are so many other experiences that probably would have given me the understanding that I have now a lot more quickly.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Right. Okay, but having assistance is really important. Now, you run Atlanta Film Project, which helps writers tell compelling stories. So, what are the biggest mistakes you see new screenwriters uh make when they're trying to sell their story? What changes do they need to make to succeed in this era of filmmaking? Oh, Carol.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Okay. So, in terms of getting your script made, I think the biggest mistake is writers not having priorities in terms of them understanding very clearly what they want to do with their screenplay. So a script is its own art form, it could that could be the final boss, right? Your script, but there are all of these other things it could do for your career. So a script could get you staffed on a show, even a feature script could get you staffed on a show. A script could get your name in the press by winning Blue Cat or Nickel or one of those um screenwriting contests. Um, a script could move your career forward by you getting into a lab or a fellowship and you getting an agent and then you going out to pitch either that script or other projects. Um, a script can be something that you want to produce, and so you are packaging it yourself and taking it out and pitching it. A script can also be something that you are not interested in producing yourself, but you want to sell, and it's very important that you get the price that you feel like you deserve. There are so many different ways that people are looking for a script to enhance their careers, and the biggest thing that I see from a non-creative perspective, in terms of how to get what you want out of your screenplay, is not knowing what you want it to do. You just wrote a script and you are you have maybe a sexy deck to go along with it, and you are pitching it and not knowing what the goal is. Because once you know what the goal is, retroactively that makes so many creative decisions for you. So let's say that I have a feature script and it is the most important for me to produce this and be able to direct it myself, then the creative decisions that I make on the page reflect what I believe this can do in the market. Because if I'm looking to produce it myself, then I'm looking to package it in a certain way. If I'm looking to package it in a certain way and I want certain stars attached, then I am writing roles that are going to be attractive to that caliber of um talent. I'm writing in a genre that is going to sell in the marketplace or is doing well in the marketplace. I'm writing at a budget level that I know I can attract um financing for as maybe a first-time director, a first-time screenwriter. And all that sounds kind of um not the juicy part that we're interested in when it comes to I just I I need to tell you need to tell me, you know, how to write the best script ever or how to win an Oscar. I can tell you how to win Oscar, but it has very little to do with what's on the page right now. Um, it has more to do with what it is that you're trying to do, and then reverse engineering that back to um the business decisions you're making, and then reversing engineering that back into the creative decisions that you're making. So, from a business perspective and creative perspective, you need to understand very keenly what you want this to do for your career at this point, what you have access to actually, what your network can bear in terms of your relationships. And then when it comes to once you've done all that, because that is primary, once you've done all of that, when it comes to um the biggest mistake that I see writers make on the page has to do with a general development ecosystem. So I can't say that world building is more important than character development. Um, I can't say that building relationships in your screenplay is more important than dialogue because all of these things are inextricably linked to each other. Um, and that going through the sort of vegetables of screenwriting, the quote unquote boring part that is story development, not the fun part where you're brainstorming back and forth and blue skying what could happen, but I mean structurally putting together a screenplay based on the jobs of each act, what each act should be accomplishing, and making sure that the stakes are being are high in each act, and making sure that each beat um is an emotional bridge to the next beat. These things make emotional logic, um, and making sure that the rules of your world are tight, making sure that these people's relationships are complex enough and realistic enough together. Um, those kinds of things you don't have to obsess one by one. You just sort of have to go through a development process that answers all of those questions so that when it comes to a draft that you're ready to send out into the world, it's ready.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Exactly. Well said. Now, the most important thing I I want to bring up because I help people raise money, is the budget. And too often, first-time filmmakers write a$20 million budget, and that is difficult to be because the history of Hollywood has always been make a film for$20,000 and we'll give you$200,000 if it's good. Then you make a film at$200,000, you make money, you stay on budget. We're up to 2 million now, we'll trust you with. But to start off with the 20 is really difficult. And I I think the guidance should be to emerging screenwriters. Uh reduce the budget, make it like some of the great filmmakers have done, make it with friends, and who's got a house available, who's got what? Like what was it? The guy in Texas said he had a guitar and a school bus, and what he he made a film. And Casavetis did that. He used all of his friends' talents, uh, nightclubs, everything he could, and wrote scripts, and he got his films made for very little money, and then he became the leader in the independent film world. So that's what I would recommend. Do you have problems telling people or sharing that information with your your filmmakers?

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Not at all. Um the the concept soapbox that you will find me on is asking, nay, begging filmmakers and screenwriters to understand the business of filmmaking and screenwriting. Without there's no other industry where actually maybe the art like my dad is a fine artist. I I find that early in their careers, fine artists know nothing about the buying and selling of art. But again, reverse engineering what you want out of a project is really important. If you are looking to actually physically produce something, then you need to be asking yourself what you have access to. Right. And then that makes the creative decisions for you, which equates to your budget level. Um, if you are looking to just sell a screenplay and you need your your voice to be the main thing that comes out of a script, then that's different. But again, you would you would navigate that by knowing exactly what you want this project to accomplish for you, and then making sure that your creative decisions in terms of what you're writing, what budget level you're writing at, the kinds of characters that you're writing, the landscape in which you're writing, like physical landscape, the environment, all of that, um, supports where it is that you want it to go and realistically what you have access to. If you have access to that kind of capital, then you write for that kind of capital. If you have the kinds of relationships that can get access to that capital, that's different. If you don't have access to any of that, the question is, then what do you have access to? And how do you let that tell you what the story is that you should be telling? When you start off with the story, even though that's the romantic notion that we're kind of fed, like I have this story in my heart, and I've been wanting to make this. That's why it takes 20 years to make because it's a story you're carrying around with you, but you don't have any access to actually get that made. In reality, I think screenwriters and directors should be thinking about themselves like a studio, and you should be thinking of your slate of projects and figuring out if you want to physically produce something, which one should you be physically producing? And that usually is the lowest hanging fruit.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Exactly. Exactly right. Okay. Now, what does it really mean to develop a market ready screenplay in today's competitive landscape? I think that's really important because on our grant, often I say you've got a great idea, but it isn't developed enough. And they say, they all say, What does it mean to develop it? So please give us an outline.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Um, so I have two main thoughts about that. One is taking your script through the development process. Um is well, depending on what stage you're at, it is taking a look at your character and the journey they're on. That's sort of the heart of it. This person who wants something badly and they're up against this thing, ideally it's an internal thing. Um, that's most of every story ever. So then when you're developing your screenplay, you're asking yourself, um, who is this person really? What do they want that is tangible that I can see happen on camera? Um and what do they have to overcome to accomplish that? And then a character doesn't have to overcome. You as a writer can decide whether they do or they don't. I'm agnostic about that part. Um, but I do think that that your story should be asking that question. And when you ask your, you dig into who this person it's so simple, but it's kind of the harder emotional work. You have to do as a writer because a lot of times digging that deep into your character brings up a lot of stuff for you as a writer, which is why a lot of my sessions end up being therapy, which is completely fine with me. Um, but writers aren't always anticipating that that deep dive into them, the sort of the thematic questions that the writer is asking about the human experience by way of this script um is what is going to win them awards and further develop the story they're telling. That's from a creative perspective. When it comes to developing your package overall, it's knowing what needs to be in your package. The heart of that is the script. That's the star of the show. Um, having the correct budget number for that script, being able to look at something and be like, okay, this is a blank million-dollar picture based off of what's on the page, right? Like understanding how to read a script and understand what the budget level is for that. Um then figuring out how to round out your package with the kind of talent that will get your project sold. It doesn't have to be chuck full of stars. It could be the cinematography, um, cinematographer that you bring with one television star that sells your project, right? It could be the director that you're is breaking out of television and has done like one major feature that you bring on, um, along with someone who's big in the theater world to produce, and that is what gets the project. So understanding how to piece together your package, which is just your script and the talent and the budget level, learning how to create that cocktail that makes sense for what's on the page and what you're trying to accomplish creatively. Um developing that takes time, and I wouldn't go into the market without some of those attachments, um, and expecting whoever's on the other side to do all of the heavy lifting. So further fine-tuning that and developing that and bringing as much as you can on board before you take it out to market, I think, is what makes your package more developed.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Yes, it's a budget, it's the pitch, and it's your deck for a feature or your proposal for a documentary. But there's always more that you can add to it. I mean, so you do have to find a space to say, that's it. I have a great package. When usually I've had uh producers tell me that they developed the package to a place where it sold itself. So this is a key to learn. Uh now, can you talk about how business of screenwriting has changed uh over the last five years and where you see it going?

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Oh, there's so many answers to that. Um I'll say we've seen the most start difference probably in television from there being seasons of TV and there being um staffing season for television writers, which is a time of year when you are being submitted for different shows, and a writer's room, you know, being a certain number of writers and lasting for a certain amount of time, and that being what makes writers sustainable, like a career over time where you can pay your bills and buy your dog medicine and have a life, right? That has changed because of um a lot of our networks, studios, production companies, these places becoming more tech-driven than creative, um, more metrics driven than story driven, right? Um and so trying to get it's it's like it's happening in every industry uh, you know, across the board, but the sort of integrity of I want to make money and do a and make a beautiful thing has really been wrung out in a way where it doing it faster, cheaper, smaller, um, or huge um has sort of cut out that middle place where people can just sort of chug along and have a career for the rest of their lives. Um, in a way that we're seeing the middle class shrink. You know, like it's not just film and television, but it is they it is the same sort of formula about trying to make as much as possible for doing as little as possible that have really squeezed writers' careers and the same thing's sort of happening in features where just less features are being made, particularly at certain budget levels, that made writers who were writing independent films or could work on sweetening a script and have a career doing that um less bankable. However, however, um there is something also more democratic happening with writers in terms of having the capacity to produce things yourself at a cheaper level, and that's been going on for some time, but what hasn't always been the case is your ability to distribute yourself as well. So even where we sort of had what people may call the golden age of independent film, that there still had, and there were a lot more buyers by indie film. Um I I was at the Arkansas Cinema Society's uh festival called Filmland this year, and my um one of the DuPlace brothers, Mark DuPlace, did a talk about being a part of that sort of um golden age and being able to like make an indie feature and premiere at Sundance and sell it and do it again and again, that kind of thing. Um but everyday writers have access to their audience and the ability to build audiences online with things like their wit or their sense of humor or whatever. Um, and there's a show that's gotten some controversy called Southern Fried Rice. Um, but I think the concept of what key TV is doing and releasing, you know, well-produced films uh on YouTube and audiences flocking to that because of the promotion that can happen online is very powerful thing. We watched Issa do that with uh the misadventures of Aqua Black Girl, and I remember when that happened. I remember feeling like something different is happening because web series have been around forever and ever and ever. And then there is something that happened so special with this one, particularly because of how funny it was, like authentically funny. Everybody thinks they're funny, most people are not. Um, but because it was just that funny, it was just that not even operating at super high production value, it was just um an authentic voice that was truly hilarious that pushed that. And I think we're gonna end up seeing more of that. I think what is standing in a lot of our way is the glory of the traditional route. Um, and the more we sort of wait on that, I think you are giving away valuable years where you could be um figuring out what your distribution strategy is going to be in terms of your own work. So, on one hand, we are watching something happen um that is not ideal. On the other hand, we're watching something happen that is very powerful, and in the middle, we're watching an uptake of things being sold. So after the writer's strike, there was a lull and a sense of desperation happening around the industry, and we are watching an uptake of scripts being sold the traditional way, and so I think um that is a positive thing, but it doesn't negate the other thing that I said about what's being squeezed, and it doesn't negate the latter thing I said about the opportunities for screenwriters to gain their own audiences and use that to their advantage.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Well, what do you think is more important now for emerging filmmakers? Should they be writing for art or writing for marketplace?

SPEAKER_00 32:45

I do not think that these things can be divorced from each other in a healthy way. I think they're inextricably linked. Um we used to say at Sundance all the time, uh well-made films reach broader audiences. Dealing with filmmakers and screenwriters all the time and reading um hundreds of thousands of scripts. Um there is this idea that the world is against you um as a screenwriter, and people are not choosing you, um for whatever reason, because it's so hard and so difficult. And the reality is all 80% of everything I read is god-awful terrible. There is a misconception, usually, of how good the work actually is, and what that means is people believe that my work is so deep or it's too artistic that it's not commercial enough and therefore not getting the opportunities it needs. That is not, in my viewpoint, the case. In my viewpoint, the best work really does rise to the top. At least I can't say the best work that's coming out of the major studios is rising to the top, but a lot of times we're looking at a pretty high percentage of minus maybe a few of the the major genres. Um, we're looking at the best ones, at least that are you're gonna see circle around award season, um, which are a combination of very artful projects that did pretty good business. Enough business to be able to have money and the budget to do these campaigns so that we know what the film is and that the filmmakers were able to travel to do enough networking to be nominated because being nominated is not just the picture itself, right? You have to have the budget to run a strong campaign. You don't get that budget level by making art for art's sake that nobody gave commerce to. Okay, so what does all that mean? It means that you should formally, formally first understand in depth the industry that you want to be a part of and how it functions, how people get paid, how people get hired, where the money is coming from. Like you should understand the money flow for the entire ecosystem, and you should take that understanding and figure out how your voice fits into that system or the system that orbit around it, right? So you don't have to go the traditional route. You can still be an independent filmmaker and do good business by um self-distribution or other forms of distribution, or like, or like there's a lot of different ways to go about it. But I think you have to prioritize understanding what it is that you're actually doing. Um, you wouldn't be like a visual artist and say, I'm gonna make visual art, but I'm not going to ever have enough money in my pocket to buy paint or materials. You know, you would look at, okay, if I want to at least be able to operate in this art form, I need to either by selling art or by otherwise have money for materials and then be able to have a website that costs 30 bucks a month to be able to promote, right? If if that understanding is really clear, then you should be approaching the film industry the same way. And then you can ask yourself, yourself, not gurus or people outside of you. You've gained the understanding, right? You've done the research. Now you can ask yourself, how am I prioritizing my slate of projects? Because if you're talking about one project, yeah, it would be really difficult to ask which route I should go down because this is the only screenplay I've wrote in the last six years, and I'm anxious to get it out there. Well, I think you're approaching it in a way that's not helpful for you. When you have four strong screenplays that you've taken through a strong development process and you understand the industry on an intimate level, you can make the correct business decisions for where you place something, how you pitch something, how you're partnering for something. Um, and that way you're not making a compromise, whether it's this or that. You are making a business decision saying, okay, this is arthouse film. I know if I want this to be seen on a congressional level to make social change, I would go about it this way. I know I want I wrote this to be super commercial. I'm not going to try to package it myself. I'm just going to try to sell it because I don't have those relationships, right? You can you can make those kinds of decisions on a uh an array, a diverse array of types of work because of your understanding.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Well said, yes. A friend of mine, uh Tom Malloy, producer, was pitching a man and he pitched him three films. They were all no. So the guy's about to hang up, and he says, Do you have anything else? And Tom says, Yeah, I have a dancing film. Oh, he said, My wife's a dancer. Oh my god, says Tom, I am too. And that led to him funding the film. And Tom got um a distribution in the theaters from AMC. Uh, it was a hit. So you're uh see, that's because he had this slate of films well developed, like you said. He's pitching someone, and uh the guy says nope, but if but he had money, he still hasn't hung up. So uh when he said what else have you got, Tom had something else. So that's the way to do it. Have your films develop, just like you said. But there's a lot of new stuff coming in, and distribution is a mess right now. I mean learning how to distribute in this market is important. But um what I want to know is what trends are you seeing in distribution that our independent storytellers need to pay attention to? The uh uh vertical gang, this vertical world is coming on very strong. Uh, so what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

I would say in terms of distribution, uh filmmakers should be looking at verticals. Filmmakers should be looking at how to how to best position themselves in verticals. So there are certain genres that have been doing very well. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to pivot 180 degrees and do something in the opposite direction, but I do think if you want to make a more elevated version of what you've been seeing, then I think that's a really, really powerful place to be. I would be looking at um distribution all over the world. I think, in particular for a lot of American filmmakers, we have a sense that the American film market is the market, but the global film market is a huge marketplace, and American filmmakers should be participating even on an independent scale. Um I'm a part of an anthology project where uh several women directors are coming together to make a television show, and we're all directing an episode. And one of the directors is Chinese, and she was talking about spending the summer in China, and she said nobody has a television in their house. Nobody. In China? In China, she said everyone, she's that verticals are extremely popular there, and everyone is watching content on their phone. When you go to people's house, there's no TV. That's amazing. And it really sobered us to how we should be thinking about even producing it the show and making sure that if we wanted to slice out visually vertical versions of the show, are we directing in a way where the composition works for that so that we are open to all of the distribution opportunities that are possible outside of the more traditional television distribution networks? I think that's one thing they should be looking at. I think another thing they should be looking at is telling shorter form stories on social media and gaining audiences that have an increasingly short attention span. I would double down on that and making sure that I am creating material that gets to the point more quickly, but also that is operating intellectually at a higher level because audiences right now have a very nuanced understanding of the world we live in. And if you are operating on socials, people responding to your show in a negative way can become so contagious and take on like wildfire. I've seen it happen more than once, where somebody does a cultural take or or a historical take, and there are inaccuracies, or um, you know, a hot take on a topic, and that thing can be stitched a hundred million times and that conversation not help what you your project is trying to do. So I would just be aware of those things in terms of distribution. And I would also be looking at um the kinds of distributors that you want to be working with and reverse engineering your work. I mean, when you're looking at traditional distribution outlets or production companies or distribution companies you want to work with, I've had, I can't tell you how many students are will pitch me a film because it's part of the classes to pitch, and they will all say, This belongs at A24, this belongs at A24, this belongs at A24. Right? I read it and it doesn't. And so the more you understand the mandate of the places you want your projects to live, the more it influences your creative decision. So you get what you want out of it?

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Exactly. I always wonder what it was like when the uh the producers of Everything Everywhere All At Once pitched that film. I mean, that was such a con uh convoluted film with so much happening at the same time. How on earth did they pitch it to get full funding and full support from uh it was a whole new genre, it just broke everything.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

It really was, and I would say this to people who are looking to do something that is genre-bending or unique. It is really important that you package your film well because if it's something that you're you don't have strong comps for, which is part of your package, comps that are appropriate, that are not just budget-wise, but thematically and timely. I don't want to see a comp that's from 1994. It does not, money is not the same from 1994. Don't bring me something from 1998. Um When you're pitching and you don't have really strong comps because you're doing something new, you're pushing the boundary of film. You'll hear me go on and on and on about a film called Nickel Boys. I love that film. I love that filmmaker. I'm obsessed with that project. Um, I do believe that Romel Ross pushed the boundary of feature filmmaking with that project, and I love to see it, but it is more difficult to pitch. Um, then your package has to be right, right? So the reliability of your director needs to be on point. The reliability of your producing team needs to be experienced. The reliability of a star that you know can deliver that and also is also good at picking out projects that bring attention or awards or whatever, that needs to be on point. The more you have that shored up, the less reliant you have to be on people leaning on whether the script can deliver because you've surrounded it with so many artists that are gonna make sure that it delivers, that it's a it's an easier yes than no.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

So tell us what you think funders, production companies, and investors look for in a project from a story perspective uh perspective. What makes them say yes when they look at a film?

SPEAKER_00 46:45

From a story perspective?

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

I think they are looking for main characters that are going to be thrilling to follow, thrilling to watch. These don't have to be the most likable characters, but they do have to be compelling, well-written characters that are very well developed. I think they are looking for a journey, a ride, which boils down to the plot of your movie that is going to be a compelling ride. I think they're looking for endings that are inevitable and surprising simultaneously that are resonant. I think that they are looking for evidence that it's going to attract a high-caliber talent, evidence that it's going to be thrilling to watch. Um, and there's this satisfaction that you feel emotionally that is intangible that I think gets you closer to it. Yes. So that intangible quality are things like the voice of the writer that feels unique. And me, me attaching myself to this writer, I feel that I'm going to go far with this script. No, I haven't read anything like this. This is going to be really interesting. Um, so for example, if I were to say something like Nickel Boys and that script, I've never read anything like that. And that is something, but it's so resonant and compelling, and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? Um, that's something that would pique a funder's interest um or a producer's interest because they know they can take that all the way down the line to the award show, which is where it got to, best adapted screenplay. Um I think that they're looking for you know the evidence of something either being commercially viable or um critically viable. And on the critical side, we're talking about nuanced complex characters with complex relationships um that are going to draw people in emotionally, um, that say something significant about the human experience in the world that we live in, that adds up to themes that are universal and stakes that are high and plot that is specific, eerily specific. Um, and that's usually what you end up seeing on the page to sort of get to that intangible um feeling, that resonant feeling that you feel that bring makes something compelling, but you can't really tell why. Um when something is emotionally potent, it's difficult for people to deny, even if they don't fund it, they will send it to somebody they know. It's difficult to deny the power of it, and it's not something that's mysterious, it's something that you can build as a skill over and over again. And that has storytelling is about order, right? What what order do these events happen in? And how do I place them in an order that's compelling?

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Compelling, right? It's it's characters, you're so right, because that's why I follow uh certain things like slow horses. I love those characters, they are so diverse in that film, uh, but you love each one of them, they're all special. So absolutely right. Well, heaven knows you certainly understand this business. Congratulations on what you've achieved. And so I just want to make sure that people know how to find you and reach you. And in closing, what advice can you give to emerging writers to stay on target and finish their films and create the complex characters you're talking about and stay within uh the boundaries of what they can do if they want to first find out what they want to do. Thank you very much for clarifying that. But what can you tell us uh to encourage screenwriters to keep going?

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Uh I I I like in screenwriters' career elevation to looking for a job. I think it sort of follows that same track when you're first looking for a job, you're filling out applications, application, application, application, you're not getting where nobody's calling you back. And so you start to tweak your resume and get it better and better and better and better. And then finally you start getting calls, right? And so you go on interviews, but you're still not getting the job. So you interview and interview and interview, and your interviews get better, your answers get better, your confidence gets better, and then you start getting offers, but you're not getting the offers you want. So then you learn how to negotiate, right? So that trajectory is very similar to screenwriters starting out who are sort of spraying the field with their screenplay. The contest and fellowships and labs are such a strong barometer, not just to elevate your career in a sort of short period of time, but for how your work is um operating on the page. So applying and applying and applying and applying and applying and not getting anywhere is good. That means that you're you're hopefully spending time elevating your work. Because if you're not doing that and you just think that the industry is shutting you out, for whatever reason, they're not. It's the work is not there yet. So I would say continue to go down that road if for nothing else, to get a sense. If you're not in a relationship where you have an agent who's giving you notes already, then that is the barometer. That's your agent. That's how you kind of know, right? And you'll get to the point where you are being getting to the semifinalists, right? And you're like, okay, I'm cooking with grease now. I know I'm elevating my work, and you you keep fine-tuning that. Usually you get to that point because of emotional vulnerability. I can't say that enough. The more emotionally vulnerable you are as a writer on the page, usually the more elevated your work becomes. So um, then you start to get to the place of finalist, and then you start interviewing for that final round, and maybe you get it, or maybe you don't, or maybe, you know, and then hopefully you are placing it. So I would use that as an emerging writer to follow the trajectory of opportunities to move your career forward. That would be the first thing I would do on the creative side. On the business side, I would figure out what kind of writer I want to be. That is very important because it will help you understand how to network the best. If you want to be a staff writer, you will network a very specific way, which is very different than if you want to be a feature writer with a first look deal and a production company, right? That's very different than if you want to be the kind of writer who makes a lot of money punching up scripts but doesn't have any real demands on your time, right? That's a different way to network. So understanding the business and then figuring out where you want to fit in based on the kind of life you want to have will help you understand what kind of relationships you need, because there's no way to do this without relationships. And once you understand the kind of relationships that you need, then that is the way you're going to network so that it matches your preparation, which is the other side we just talked about.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Wow, thank you so much, Spade. What a powerhouse of insight and creativity you are. In today's uh conversation, if this lit a fire with you, I suggest you visit spadeinc.com, sp-a-d-e-in-k.com, or atlantafilmproject.com to learn more about spade's consulting work, uh, her um productions, and how she can help you elevate your story. At From The Heart Productions, we believe in supporting filmmakers who make a difference. So if you're interested in our classes, our grants, or our sponsorship, head to FromTheHoreProductions.com. And remember, funding is not just about money, it's about alignment, belief, and telling a story that the world needs to hear. I'm Carol Dean. Thank you for joining us on the Art of Film Funding. Keep creating, keep believing, and always put your heart in your work.