The New Frontier of Film Distribution with Rish Aggarwal of Kinema

Kinema is a technology-driven global screening and streaming platform designed to democratize film distribution and empower independent filmmakers. Before launching Kinema, Rish was a Principal at Human Ventures, where he supported and invested in early-stage startups across a range of industries. Prior to that, he worked in fintech, leading strategic projects at Transactis ahead of its 2019 acquisition by Mastercard. At Kinema, he champions community-led screenings, virtual events, direct audience relationships, and, most recently, partnered with Show&Tell Films to expand resources and education for filmmakers within the Kinema ecosystem.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Today's conversation is especially meaningful because it sits at the intersection of distribution, community, and creative sustainability. Three areas that matter deeply to filmmakers navigating today's rapidly changing landscape. Carol and I are honored to welcome Rich Agarwal, the co-founder and COO of Kinema, a groundbreaking platform that is redefining how films reach audiences through community-led screenings, filmmaker ownership, and direct relationships with viewers. Rich's work has helped thousands of filmmakers move beyond traditional gatekeepers and into a model that values connection, transparency, and long-term impact. Kinema is a technology-driven global screening and streaming platform designed to democratize film distribution and empower independent filmmakers. Before launching Kinema, Rich was a principal at Human Ventures, where he supported and invested in early stage startups across a wide range of industries. Prior to that, he worked in FinTech, leading strategic projects at Transactis ahead of its 2019 acquisition by MasterCard. At Kinema, he champions community-led screenings, virtual events, direct audience relationships, and most recently partnered with Show and Tell Films to expand resources and education for filmmakers within the Kinema ecosystem. And Carol, I know that you and from the heart refer Kinema to your sponsored filmmakers.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Yes, we do, Claire, because it is a brilliant way to distribute your film. Wonderful people, caring, nurturing, supporting. And thank you, Rich, for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Thank you so much, Claire and Carol, for having me. I'm so excited to be here today and excited for our conversation.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Yes, we're going to have a good time. I want you to tell us about your journey, how your early experience in global development and tech led you to build Kinema.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Absolutely. Yeah. So I started out with a brief stint in global development, mostly focused on things like water, sanitation, hygiene, working with groups like Doctors Without Borders and Charity Water. And I love that time so much. It holds a very special place in my heart. But I always felt that, you know, I wanted to see how we could achieve more scale, which is what led me to the sort of, you know, the tech world, mostly out of it with a perspective of business for good. So I spent some time in FinTech, mostly working on taking um at a firm called Transactus, taking our technology and trying to expand it to small businesses and really helping to democratize access to those tools in healthcare and across small business. After we exited that company to MasterCard, I worked in a firm called Human Ventures as principal. And my role was two things. It was investing in super early stage startups, but also helping build startups from the ground up with experienced founders. That's where I met Christy Marchese, my now business partner and the CEO of Kinema, who had, you know, a lot of experience in filmmaking and more so impact production and impact distribution. And, you know, we came to this idea of how do we really help figure out ways to help independent stories thrive in light of all the things that were happening at the time. So that was about five years ago. And now we um we're really happy to be building kinema and working with filmmakers across the country and the world.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

You certainly are, and they love it. I've never heard anything bad. All I get are great compliments.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

That's great to hear.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yes. Tell us how your background in tech informed the way you lead kinema today.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Absolutely, yeah. Um, I mean, kinema, it's it's it's it's uh we really try to build um the best technology um possible for filmmakers to um have the best shot at adding more revenue streams, um reaching their audience, engaging and maintaining that audience, um, and still owning their rights and data. Um so, you know, um we really try to build a full theater in a box solution combined with an operating system and full insights. Um, you know, all the big players in the space today, Netflix, all the streamers, um, and then all of the creator economy um companies, um, you know, from the social media ones to the ones that are helping to democratize access to content and other verticals, Substack Patreon, have so much technology behind them, which is what makes it so powerful. Um, not just, you know, the ability to watch a video, but um the ability to own your audience, use data and all the sophisticated marketing tools that are available to many other industries. And the goal is to really bring that to Kinema, uh, bring that into Kinema for filmmakers to more effectively utilize um to sort of supercharge their distribution, um, their marketing, um, and really help them have all the world-class tools that are available.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

So you say you you've designed it with a lot of information, analytics for filmmakers, right? Which they don't get with any other streamer. They don't know who's watching their material, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, I think in the traditional streaming distribution ecosystem, um, you sort of, you know, you lose your rights. And a big part of that is you lose access to your data. So you don't know who's watching, um, where they're watching from, who they are. Um, and that becomes an issue. Um, one, because um, you don't get to um create that snowball effect for yourself, right? Like we see so many people have great success um in um the creator economy space and the music space because they get to maintain their audience, right? So um as a filmmaker, we think you should be able to do the same and have an audience that comes to see your film because they want to see what you're making. Um, your voice is authentic. Um, so by by accessing your own data, you're able to um engage that audience in one project, carry them to the next one. Um, do things like have an early Pivot tour of your film and use that data to influence how you might want to do some in-person or theatrical distribution. Um so it allows you to be smart about your distribution, certainly, but it also allows you to really create um this engaged audience that you know can be um sustaining for your entire filmmaking career.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yes, Kid Hope uh and Stefan Follows were talking about that just this last week, about how important it is uh to um stream your information before you just lock picture. And uh and so are you doing any of those where you're streaming um a um a rough cut or a almost completed film to get feedback?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Oh, it's a great idea. Yeah, we actually do have some filmmakers on the platform who do that. Um, and I think Kinem is a great tool for that. It's not uh been as you know um a big part of our business to date, but we're actively you know encouraging folks to do that because the information you get back is great. It also creates a really good fundraising opportunity. Oftentimes you get to the end of a film, and ideally, or hopefully, you have you know plenty of your budget left for marketing and distribution. But in some cases, there's a shortfall. Those early press word-of-mouth feedback screenings that you can do using our virtual player, our technology can help you drive ticket sales or donations to create um a nice fundraising moment to get feedback, certainly, but also to help um fill those shortfalls.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Yes, the feedback is what you need because you never really know what until it's on the big screen and you've got people watching. And then you have an opportunity to figure out who your real audience is.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Absolutely. Yeah. We've seen a lot of folks who will join us at Kinema and have a large screening virtually that's attended, you know, really well by folks across the country and the world. And, you know, after the screening, we'll be able to send them the data of um, hey, here's anonymized data of where folks were watching, right? And you'll people are often surprised that, like, oh wow, I have these really large pockets of demand in places I didn't necessarily expect. Um, and that data is super helpful for them to be able to say, okay, now as I approach my theatrical tour, um, this is good information on where I can maybe focus some marketing efforts or focus some uh dollars or um, you know, effort.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

And attached to other audiences of that are similar, uh, that's what it's important to find your real audience, as Keith says, um, right at show and tell, finding your audience is the key.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah. Um, if you ask me what I think the biggest challenge and therefore the biggest opportunity in independent filmmaking is, I think it's audience identification. Um, especially when we talk about independent film, um the challenge of, you know, that the reason um all of the larger streamers are are so powerful and so um valuable to the market is because um they own their audience, right? So that's why they don't give you any data. It's Netflix's product is the fact that they have an audience. Um and so the ability for independent films to say, hey, okay, no, no, we're now gonna be the ones who own the audience um in a more democratized way is super powerful. And certainly it's doesn't come without work. Um, but I think that's the the goal of what we're trying to build at Kinema is a way for you to own and maintain your own audience um and identify them early, acquire them and retain them.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Right. Yeah, so uh you said that Canema was born to um from a desire to give filmmakers meaningful life outside of traditional systems, and this is very true. The systems are not working really in independent filmmakers to their benefit. So, what was the catalyst for starting this platform?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Oh, great question. Um, yeah, so I mentioned I met my NABIS partner, Christy, the CEO of Kinevah. Um, she had a previous company called Picture Motion, where she spent a lot of time um doing grassroots screening tours for documentaries and other really meaningful films. And through that work, she really discovered that like um they were like really building these grassroots theatrical distribution tours on the back of Excel map sheets and using DVDs in the mail, and saw that it might be a really good way to give that tech that power to have these in-person event footprints to all independent filmmakers. Um, so that's really where this company started. We we started Kinema, it was actually had a different name back then, um, with an idea of creating a way for um filmmakers to have um in-person events in mixed-use spaces, whether it's libraries, churches, um, farms. We've seen drive-ins for a long time. Um so that was the early version of Kinema we built in about 2020. Started, you know, launching the company and reaching out to fundraisers, uh, to investors. Um, and then uh COVID happened and we're like, wow, well, we're trying to build an in-person business during March of 2020. Um so that was an interesting time. But the benefit there is that we, you know, had all these folks who were onboarding with us and ready to start their tours for an in-person campaign, and we needed to quickly transition them to something that would work during that time. And that's how we built our virtual cinema, which is a synchronous way to watch films together across time zones with a text chat and um live broadcasting options after. Um, and that really was sustaining during COVID, but we also found that that was a really amazing way for filmmakers to do things like premieres, press greetings, feedback screenings, all that kind of stuff. And so it became a big part of our platform even as um the COVID and the lockdown and those aspects uh faded away. Um, so over time our platform just kept evolving to meet um new filmmaker needs and new market needs. Um and we sort of, you know, try to just be a place for independent filmmakers and their and their stories. And we listened to them and keep building more and more features. Uh, we built on-demand screenings so that people could do more um sort of like pivot campaigns and film drops, uh, you know, full TVOT support, lots of additional um layers of data and how you access that. Um and so yeah, that's how it came to be.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

And then, of course, you became a perfect place for show and tell. So uh tell me the vision behind this partnership.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, I mean, show and tell is a fantastic partner. Um and um, they are a masterclass in distribution and fundraising. They offer education, coaching, community. And so it's it's a really great combination because we've been spending all our time, as we mentioned, trying to build the best in class technology for distribution. And Keith and the team at Show and Tell is just so amazing at um the um the coaching and the learning of what does distribution look like um in this in this new world. Um, and so what's really exciting is that you know that partnership is great. And now, you know, filmmakers at Kinema get access to show and tell, which is so beneficial. And folks at Show and Tell um get access to um Kinema's um distribution services. Um but what's really great is I think there's this much larger community of businesses and organizations that are committed to helping independent stories thrive. We also have a partnership with Seed and Spark, which offers um uh crowdfunding for filmmakers, um, and I think has um you know really amazing success rates. Um there's a lot of you know people in this industry that are really working hard to um help fill um all these gaps and help um create new systems um education and programs that um make distribution and fundraising and all parts of independent filmmaking a little bit easier and a little bit more sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Will and Cedon Spark use your system for crowdfunding?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, so we have a partnership with Cedon Spark as well. Um Emily Best is a fantastic voice and um contributor in the space as well. Um so Cedon Spark filmmakers who have a fully funded um, and I think in Cedon Spark, we're greenlit film on Cedon Spark get access to Kinema automatically. Um and it's a really good through line because we often find that the folks that are working on crowdfunding early on are really entrepreneurial and have a lot of the early um support that it takes to do alternative distribution.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Wow, that's wonderful. So uh the Sedden Spark people are raising money to make the film. So they uh they use your uh database for uh funding. And so if you have show and tell Ced and Spark, so you must have a giant uh tech department.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Our team is mostly tech. Um to clarify, we don't seed and spark doesn't use our um database to um fundraise. We we um um we keep that private. It's more that it's a we're we're a good pipeline for that, for them to be able to do distribution after the fact. And oftentimes when you have um crowdfunders and early investors, they're like your sort of super connectors to um help you jumpstart alternative distribution. Um but yes, to your question, um our our team is mostly tech and product focused, um, as well as a lot of folks who are um very um either from or in tune with the independent film space.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Right. Um well let's talk about innovative tools that you have. That which ones are you the most excited about right now, especially for filmmakers seeking sustainable revenue streams?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Um, it's a great question. Um, I mean, I what I what's exciting to me is that you know, we build a lot of tools um that are in and around um different ways to distribute your film under your non-theatrical license, under TVOD, um, you know, we also offer series support. What's really exciting that I see is the way filmmakers um, the creativity we see, our filmmakers use those tools with. Um so we're constantly amazed that, you know, we have filmmakers that really take advantage of our on-demand screenings to do things like film drops and uh create really good demand out of having um, you know, early, limited release runs of a film. Um so that's what's really exciting. Um, I think that, you know, with the data piece for us at Kinema is our is sort of a really exciting part where we're trying to put more time and um energy on our product team to build more and more ways for you to manage and access your data and make it easier for you to um, like I mentioned, um, you know, do sort of this really professional digital marketing um with your film and have a feedback loop that um helps you do that. So I think that's a part of the company that we're um focused on um improving even more over time.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Oh, wonderful. So, what types of films and creators tend to succeed on Canada? And what advice would you give filmmakers beginning to explore this model?

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, great question. Um I mean, I think the um the job of a filmmaker is becoming increasingly hard. Um, you have to make the film, you know, become a marketing expert and um a business person all in one. So it, you know, it takes a lot. And I think, you know, all the work that Show and Tell and C and Spark and all your podcast and from the Heart Productions is doing is really important. And what that's creating is this really entrepreneurial filmmaker that, you know, I think when they understand early that, you know, distribution is not something that you get, it's something that you do, um, that's a big benefit because that often means that they're coming into distribution um with a um with a treasure trove of data, of audience, and often at least a little bit of budget um to do the work there. Um and you know, we often say that finishing the film is uh unfortunately only half the battle these days. Um so that being said, what I um, you know, I think we think the filmmakers that do best on Kinema are often the entrepreneurial ones that either are ready to do it, um, some of the hard work in and around marketing and audience building and engagement themselves or with a partner or with, you know, a team around them, hopefully. Um and the advice is typically that I give to folks, um, especially if you're, you know, in the early days of starting a film, is it's never too early to start um building your audience and collecting that information. Um, from the time you fundraise um to your production, you know, um, it's really about building community um and having, you know, the people that care about your film, care about the topic, um, as your sort of supporters and super connectors, because, you know, one person who's a super fan um is really worth, you know, 10 people down the line or 100 people down the line who uh may watch and uh be part of your audience and your revenue model. And the other piece of advice is to um fundraise early. Um you know, I think it's um um you know, building a budget for a film is you know, filmmakers want to make films, but you also have to consider the fact that, you know, uh sometimes up to 50% of your budget should be dedicated to um distribution and marketing. Um and it can be a challenge to finish a film and then um start fundraising again thereafter.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Yes, this is a most important way to think. We uh we always said about motion picture films that came out of the studios, whatever the budget was, they had to spend that again in marketing. They would double the budget.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Totally, yeah. Um, yeah. I know, yeah. It's hard. It's hard. And we're asking filmmakers to do a lot these days. I I am very aware that if you're um a filmmaker and you're listening to this, it sounds like you're being asked to make the film and then um build an entire business around it. And well, I think that's true. Um, and I think that, you know, as a filmmaker, you have to make sure all the competencies around distribution, marketing um are solved for. I think the one thing I'd also say to filmmakers is that you definitely don't have to do it yourself. Um, you know, if you don't want to um do marketing and it's not your strong suit, um, you just have to make sure that, you know, you work with someone, whether it's an impact producer, um, a a friend, um, someone you hire um that does it for you um or with you. Um so having a team around you is um I think a great way to navigate um all the increasing challenges. That we talk about here when we talk about distribution.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yes, that's true. Well, let's talk about how Kenyma supports both in-person and virtual screening. So they've got two formats there. And they complement each other, right? So how do they use both of them to get the most out of their distribution?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Oh, great question. Yeah. So I mean the way we build Kinema is to have a bunch of options that suit you no matter what point at which you are in in your distribution journey. So we have a lot of folks that use Kinema for everything. And what we really say is to think about your distribution waterfall and think about how you can create demand and really achieve that snowball effect of early releases that support create demand and keep creating more and more demand, just like, you know, theatrical windows create created demand for DVD sales. So in-person and virtual screenings work really well for that, where you can use a virtual screening to have a really um sort of eventized and um exclusive premiere, for example, right? And that premiere will help you generate press, um, some funds, maybe, um, and also some information about, like I said, where your audience is. And you can use that to then complement um and support your in-person um tour. Um, so we really see them as sort of being distinct parts of your distribution journey and um good ways to sort of think about how you can take that distribution waterfall um and take, you know, the time of your distribution and really make sure that each section of it helps the next section become more and more uh powerful.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yes, this is very important. So, what do you think is one common distribution myth that you wish filmmakers would stop believing?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Oh, that's a good one. Um, I think that um, you know, I think I mentioned this earlier, but I think the concept that distribution is something you get um and not something that you sort of actively do um would be the main myth. I think is is is I definitely see it changing in a lot of folks and in a lot of filmmakers that we work with. Um, but um I think the distribution landscape has changed so significantly over the past you know decade that um while it might be nice to think that, oh, I'm gonna make this film, it's gonna go off into someone else's hands and I'll be on the beach while the money rolls through my bank account. That's often just not the case for um filmmakers um in the modern environment. And active distribution is really the way forward for um a large percentage of the films that are being made today. Um, and that requires a lot of work, but I think that also is a big opportunity for filmmaking and filmmakers. Um, active distribution means that you get a lot more control for doing that work. Um, you get the access to your audience, you get a lot more insights. Um, and ideally that becomes like this asset you have in addition to your film. So whereas right now a lot of the platforms own the audience, um, by being active about distribution, um, independent filmmaking as a community and independent filmmakers can be the one that have the control over um that audience.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Exactly. Well, um are there genres or themes that resonate especially well on kinema?

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Oh, great question. Um, we've seen with so many films across genres and themes do well on kinema. Um, we do see documentaries do really well um on the platform, specifically because they often have existing built-in audiences. Um and so when we talk about finding your audience, it's often about trying to find um these hidden pockets of demand for your film, right? Um and for independent filmmaking, in contrast to you know, a four-quadrant film that comes out of a major studio, um, that presents a challenge. You know, how do you find folks that are interested in this somewhat um alternative or maybe niche segment? Um, so for documentaries, because they are often part of the issue area or movement that they are speaking about, um, they're often connected with um groups of um advocacy groups, community groups, all these folks that care about the topic and are there therefore um sort of pre-built audiences for them to connect with. Um so we see documentaries often do really well by being able to connect with those folks, um, which is why I would, you know, as you asked before, um I would say like, you know, being able to engage folks as you build a film and make sure that you stay part of those communities and you're still top of mind for those um communities is is so important.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Well, as a um from the heart productions is a nonprofit, as you know, we have a lot of filmmakers under our sponsorship. So Mark Murray, I've known him for years, and Mark just finished Baristas versus Billionaires. Oh yeah. Right. And so he said, uh, you know, he was looking for how to distribute it. And I said, well, you have to go read everything about Canada and make a decision, but that's where I think you belong. And he joined you, and he's really happy.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

That's amazing. We'd love to hear that, Carol.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Yeah. His documentary is on uh the people at Starbucks who tried to unionize and of course immediately got fired.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

And uh, but it's so great to have um a place for documentaries, uh short or long, it doesn't matter. But this is uh the most important thing right now because, see, then he can use his union groups and drive them.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Totally. Um, the film is is fantastic, and I I love the name Breeson's Virus Billionaires, um, has such a good ring to it. Um, I immediately caught my eye when I first saw it.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yes, and he's doing very well. He's going to have his California debut out here at the Ethos Film Festival. So I was very excited about his work with you.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

So um let's start with how filmmakers can reach you and start uh learning what you do early in their career.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Um, I mean, first just reach out. We we love to chat. Um, we always are happy to hop on the phone and chat about, you know, certainly what we do, but more about your project and you know, where Kanema might fit in and how it fits in. Um, so you can email us at films at Kinema.com or just if you are on our website, there's a button on most pages that says chat with us. Um and yeah, I mean, I think it's never too early to start thinking about distribution. And, you know, even if, you know, let's say your focus is not on active or alternative distribution, whatever you want to call it, um, it's it's certainly important to have that conversation early, um, just so you're prepared for, you know, um all the outcomes that um uh you may encounter as you finish your your film and your project.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Well, that takes us to the brilliant distribution playbook that you created. I understand you co-authored that. I thank you profusely for this playbook. I teach it to my filmmakers. It's it's one of the most important things I have to read. So explain to our audience what it is, please.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Oh, that's great. Um, we're so happy that you um are using it. So the distribution playbook is a wonderful open source resource that was co-authored by Christy Marchese, my business partner, and um Emily Best at Ced and Spark. And it really came out of a need to, you know, um share um all of the information they both have and had about distribution um in the modern landscape. So it's not necessarily about Kinema or Ced and Spark. Those certainly are a part of it, but it's about um much more than that and what distribution looks like in the modern landscape, how to find um the information you might need from fundraising to um different parts of the filmmaking process to building a team. Um so it's really um a vast resource on um a lot of topics and a way to find more resources. There's case studies in there that from folks who have found success um in alternative distribution. Um so we certainly recommend checking it out. It's the distributionplaybook.com. It's updated pretty frequently and has a lot of resources um that, like I said, are uh are about, but more than just, you know, Kinema and Orseed and Spark. Um so yeah, we certainly recommend you check it out.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Yes. And can you share a couple of the insights? Because it is really a great book.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yeah, absolutely. Um so some of them talk about things like, you know, um the um the important things to do um during fundraising that'll affect your distribution. So for example, um making sure that, like we said before, um Carol, that, you know, up to 50% of your budget is allocated for um distribution as you come to it. Um there's a lot of there's a lot of information in there about how to um understand um all the sections of the distribution waterfall and all the pieces of pie and your types of rights. So making sure that um before you get to distribution, you understand what your options are for your theatrical rights and your non-theatrical rights and your streaming rights, um, and how to make sure you maximize all those, um, what deal making looks like from um traditional distributors. So you know how to identify good deals and bad deals and when to take one or when to walk away. Um, so there's a lot of information there that I think really helps uh folks understand what that landscape looks like because you know it's very dynamic, certainly, but there's also so many options available to you as a filmmaker on where to take your project and your asset um and how to monetize it. Um so understanding all those details, I think, is um is super important, even down to like, you know, what is a minimum guarantee? Um, and how does that um um pay out? And you know, what does that um waterfall look like if you um um um what's left to you after you pay out the waterfall?

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Right. Yeah right and understanding the waterfall.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Certainly, exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

But see, you are the playbook is the most honest thing I have ever read. Do not expect to get distribution, you say, boldly. You need to realize that you probably won't. You're going to have to do it yourself. So here's what you need to do. And then, you know, it's face reality. Uh and and for filmmakers, this is exactly what they need to hear early on.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Absolutely, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

And I know that filmmakers often uh worry about losing rights or revenue in distribution, but they don't when they work with you, right? So explain how you empower creators to retain control and build long-term audience relationships.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Oh, yeah, great question. Um, I mean, this is happening in so many other industries, Carol. Like we're seeing people in, you know, use Substack in writing to publish their own stories, people using Patreon to own their own audience in music. Um, so we're happy it's happening in the film and people are able to take back control of their content. So kinema is non-exclusive, you know, um, that's not like a thing you need to ask for with us. It's just our standard terms and conditions. Um, and we really tried to build Kinema to be um um additive to your distribution plans. So your film is always yours, your data is yours, and it's always your asset. Um, and kinema is just your partner in distribution. Um, so we often also want to remind people that you know you don't need to use Kinema for everything. And it's not an sort of uh either or. It can often be an and and it's an additive platform. You may say, you know what, I have this great distribution deal for um theatrical in um the US and Canada. On Kinema, you can just unselect US and Canada, geoblock those, and still run with us in the rest of the world. Um, and more than that, you know, like I mentioned before, you get access to your audience data. And the ideal outcome for Kinema long term is that um filmmakers are able to begin to own their audience. And um, by doing all this hard work of um alternative distribution, um, you will identify, engage, and then retain your audience. So now you've done with your first film. When it comes to your second film, you now have this treasure troce of information of folks that you've watched your first film who are interested in what you have to say and interested in your voice and are ready to come watch your next film. And so all that work you did in your first film helps you the next time. And instead of um the platforms owning that um asset, now your film is not just your asset, but your audience is also a big part of um your business and your filmmaking career.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Right. Well, um, because you are so forward thinking, um to have cannabis sitting there when we all were became locked down and and virtual screening was in its infancy, it was perfect for you. So looking ahead, what trends in independent film distribution excite you the most?

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Oh, great question. Um I mean, I think this this idea of people being able to take control of their content is just is is really exciting. And like I said, we're seeing it happening in so many other industries across the uh crater economy. Um, and so I think what I would love to see happen, let's say over the next five years, um, is to see alternative and active distribution become kind of the norm instead of the fallback. I think oftentimes we see filmmakers say, okay, I didn't get distribution. Now I'm gonna go to kinema or to active or self-distribution. So many names for it. Um, so I think it'd be really interesting, and we're starting to see this now, um, but to see over the next few years um the shift continue to happen where people are building films for active and self-distribution. Um, and that becomes a big part of the standard distribution landscape. Um and I think that's a big um thing for us, certainly at Kinema. Um, but I think it's a big um, it should be a good great goal for the industry at large.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Absolutely. Finding your audience, and I think that filmmakers seem to promote themselves more. I think they have they need to do introductions before the film.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Here I am, I'm a filmmaker, I made this film for you. Let me know what you think about it. I want you, I thank you for watching my film and being part of my community, because that's that's what's gonna have to happen. And then the next film they make, they already have an existing community. Uh, I've seen filmmakers who make films in one subject and then switch, choose a different topic, and lose their audience. So most people realize to get an audience behind them and keep making films of similar content to maintain that. So I hope you know that helps, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:07

You've seen absolutely. I always tell filmmakers don't underestimate the authenticity and the power of your own voice. I mean, I think people want to consume content from the people who create it. That's becoming more and more of the norm. Um, and like when you're doing marketing, you the fact that a filmmaker is behind their own film and out there saying, hey, watch this thing I created. Yes, we see as being incredibly powerful.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Absolutely. I think that's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Uh the last question: what legacy do you hope to leave for filmmakers beyond Canema as a platform in terms of how films are shared, supported, and experienced?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Great question. We also at Kinema, we really think seeing films socially is so important. So I think the biggest legacy is, you know, um helping to be a part of the change in um filmmakers, you know, owning their own content, all things we talked about a lot. But the second thing is also making filmmaking or the consumption of films and viewing films um less of a side-load experience you do on your own and also a very social thing. We we we put a lot of time into our the event side of Kinema, in-person events, virtual events, and we see people really engage with the topic of the film um and want to talk about it. Um, even if it's they're they're not showing up in person, but they're showing up virtually. Um, they really love to be able to um experience things together. Um, I mean, you know, the silver screen has been such an important part of our culture for so many years. And as theater closes closed down across the country and the world, people need a space to um view things together, talk about them, and come to an event. Um, and so we think social cinema um is still has a very important place um in our culture, um, in the revenue model for films. Um, we think that certainly the place that happens might change. It may move from a theater to the screen, it may move from a theater to a mixed-use space. Um, but we think it's certainly a very important part of um the way forward and the part that will still persist.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Thank you so much. Um, what I love about you and Kenema is that you're it's not just your vision, but it's your generosity. You build systems that work for filmmakers and you share what you're learning along the way. This is so important. So thank you very much, Rish. This has been a very thoughtful and inspiring conversation. And what I want to take away, thank you. So you're just full of guidance and information. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Thank you, Carol. It's so amazing to be here. And likewise, I mean, from the Heart Productions and the podcast is such an amazing organization, and um, it's your dedication to filmmaking and independent filmmakers is evident, and this is a fantastic resource in itself for everyone interested in the industry and um in filmmaking.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Thank you. That's so kind of you. So, what I want filmmakers to take away from today is distribution doesn't have to be something that happens to you. It can be something you actively shape with intention, community, and clarity about your values. So, uh from the heart, we really believe in supporting filmmakers, not just with funding, but with education, strategy, and trusted partners. So, conversations like this are part of that mission, helping you to see the bigger picture and make empowered choices for your work and your future. So, all of us, thank you from the art of film funding. And we want you to keep trusting your voice, keep building your community, and keep moving forward one step at a time. So we will see you in another week. Thank you very much. Bye for now.