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Your Laptop Isn’t A Third Place, Sorry

• Adrian Franks

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We dig into how third places — beyond home and work — shape creative lives, community ties, and everyday joy. From bookstores and gardens to restaurants, retreats, and our own living rooms, we map what makes a space feel safe, human, and alive.

• defining third places in 2026 and why they matter
• analog habits, dry-January resets, and meeting IRL
• bookstores, libraries, gardens, and record stores as daydream zones
• restaurants as cultural anchors and economic engines
• hotel lobbies, social clubs, and the cost of belonging
• building third spaces at home with simple programming
• the role of friction, presence, and shared energy in creativity
• spades tables, game nights, and designing for connection
• questions we ask listeners about missing third places

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You've been tuned in to Graphite Radio, where creativity meets culture. Part of the Kaffeine Audio Network and proudly distributed by Pepper Labs. Thanks for joining us on this journey of ideas, art, and innovation. Be sure to subscribe and stay connected for more stories that shape the world we create. Until next time, keep sketching your vision into reality.

SPEAKER_03:

What does it mean to live creatively? Not just in what you make, but how you move and how you dress and how you build your world?

SPEAKER_01:

What does it mean to feel at home in your space, in your skin, in your purpose?

SPEAKER_03:

Welcome to the Maroon Life. Our lives in full color. A podcast where we explore the art of creative living from the way we style our homes to the stories we wear on our backs.

SPEAKER_01:

We're your co-host, Adrian Franks, Nicole A. Taylor. Two lifelong creators, curators, and culture seekers on a mission to make space for freedom, joy, and design that speaks.

SPEAKER_03:

We tap into soulful conversations about joy, design, self-expression, home renovation, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_01:

How are you doing, Nicole?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, right, right. What's going on with you?

SPEAKER_03:

You know, getting into the swing of 2026.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, it's coming in hot, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Blazing. The world, the world is literally blazing around us.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Greece hot fire. So, um, you know, let's talk, right? We are here 2026. It's a nice day here in Brooklyn, New York City. Um, you know, Garvey's back in school. I'm back in the swing of things of doing cool projects. You're still working through a lot of your um independent projects. But I want to sit here and talk about, you know, 2026 as it stands, or as it relates to this idea of safe spaces and this idea of creating spiritual places that we can hang out, like, right? There's this places and spaces that we've been, or more so on an experience. Um, I think a lot of people are looking for that. I think the last couple of years, definitely post-2020, we won't call it that era. More and more people are trying to find places that they can really connect and not just online. I think more and more people are truly trying to get back to what they call IRL or in real life, you know, connections because some of the things on social are a little fabricated. They may not even be real, or more so they just leave it a little shallow and empty. What do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, two things. I mean, the first is that for the last few years for the month of January, I'm dry-ish, but I also get off social media. Ish. Um, I take social media off my phone, and the only way I can access it is is online. Um, and I also make an assertive effort. This is the time of year where I'm like, who do I want to catch up with in person that I didn't catch up with last year? I'm kind of behind the gun a little bit on that, but that's always my plan for at least the last five years. And then the second thing is every article I read nowadays is about analog this, analog that, right? And I I was thinking, I'm like, what is this analog conversation? And when I say analog conversation, they're saying that this is the year that people are gonna go back to listening because to cassettes or listening to DVDs or to have a vinyl or what?

SPEAKER_01:

A vinyl or vinyl.

SPEAKER_03:

I think people have been doing that for a while. Or I saw this thing about what to put in your analog bag, and it was like you should have a notebook. I'm like, wait, people don't have notebooks?

SPEAKER_01:

You'd be surprised. I mean, that people don't write.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, people don't have notebooks. I mean, I I I always have a a moleskin.

SPEAKER_01:

Same here.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, and I think that that conversation is also too like how do we connect with people in person? Like nowadays, I ask for an in-person meeting. If I have a meeting with a colleague or if I'm interviewing someone for a story, I immediately say or or offer the option of in-person first. And if they can't do in-person, I let them say, Let's do it on Zoom, Zoom, or what have you. It's just, you know, you connect better with a person when you're in person, and also too, you get out of the house. For me in New York, that means I'm walking somewhere. So I might be walking down a street or catching a train I don't normally catch. So I get inspired by people, places, or things.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, that is a very good insight because um, you know, post-2020, a lot of people have kind of gone into this whole cocoon kind of approach of like human existence versus in-person. And I think the idea of creating the safe spaces and in-person has kind of changed radically a lot, right? Like the idea of a third-place environment has it's nothing new, but it is becoming kind of like the new analog thing, like what to do in real life, right? Um, I know we talked about getting Garvey, like some, you know, analog kind of cool stuff, such as, you know, maybe an iPod or a cassette player. But the ideal of a third place, again, that's that's not new. Uh, I used to work at a coffee shop, I won't actually say the name, that was that was their thing, right? It was always called themselves the third place environment. As you guys know, that the third place is basically, you know, it's like a neutral ground. The first place is your home, the second place would be wherever you work, and nowadays work is relative because of co-working, right? Work is kind of like wherever you can open up a laptop and jump on a Zoom call, right? Um, so the the second and third place have kind of like fused a little bit because the co-working aspect of this is that you can work anywhere. The the the odd part of a third place, third place now is wherever you are at technically, right? So if you're at a park, if you're at a hotel, if you technically at work, they're trying to make work feel more like a third place. The problem that I think that we're trying to really you know work through is that Zoom calls have become very disruptive, or this ideal of a you know, a team meetup uh on like Zoom or Google Meet or whatever, you kind of go to work or you go to a co-working spot to actually be on calls.

SPEAKER_03:

You want to hear something funny?

SPEAKER_01:

I do.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't, and this this is a hot take. Hot take coming in.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, it's gonna be hot as Greece.

SPEAKER_03:

I no longer feel like coffee shops where everyone has their laptop open is a third space.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I don't. I mean, there's a coffee shop in our neighborhood, bedside, that I used to frequent a lot. Then I stopped going because everyone had a laptop and it just felt I don't know, it felt rushed like they didn't want you in there because and I wasn't necessarily crazily nowadays when I go to coffee shops 90% of the time I don't have my laptop.

SPEAKER_01:

I usually have your phone.

SPEAKER_03:

I I do have my phone and I usually have a notebook, but I don't have my laptop. And I go to a coffee shop um near my son's school Garvey, and every time I'm in there without my laptop, I see somebody I um know or somebody that looks familiar because I'm paying attention, my head is not buried. Right. So I'm my hot take is the coffee shop that allows and has a ton of computers and people have them open at from from the time they open to the end, that's not a third space.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean, computers now are relative because computing is not just laptops, it's it's phones, right? It's phones, is you know, it's tablets slash iPads. Now is actually, you know, uh wearable technology such as like iwear, right? But I do think this idea of what the third place should be, it should be a place where you can connect with people that you're cool with or just random people that you don't even know. And maybe that is what we need to start defining what a third place is, which kind of gets to uh you know the next subject, right? How do you define what the third place is? Like we already talked about like what it traditionally was, but we're now in 2026, right? A lot of things going on in the world, a lot of people trying to navigate certain spaces where there's, you know, new coffee shops or new co-working spots or new libraries or new, you know, hangout spots. Like, what is going to define these places going forward, right? Like, how do you create this neutral ground? Um, there are some spots currently that I've been frequent uh here in Bed Sti that kind of feels that way, right? A lot of bookstores, I think that's for me is a great place for.

SPEAKER_03:

I definitely think a bookstore is a third place because you typically, if you are browsing in a bookstore, you have to have your eyes open and you're browsing the chef, the shelves, excuse me, and you're seeing people to the right or your left. So I would say definitely bookstores are a third place. Um, another way I would describe a third place for us, I would say the Maroon House, our house in Athens, is a third place because um when we go there, we um have you you look around, they're trees, we have to look at each other.

SPEAKER_01:

We got a record player.

SPEAKER_03:

For we we have a record, we have all the analog things, and for a long time we had a room that was supposed to be the no-device room. It didn't work out. Well, you know, it's but that's kind of the only room that like there's a bunch of like electronics. It was supposed to be the meditation room and then it turned into the office.

SPEAKER_01:

Um I actually like the fact that it is the room where most of the electronics are located. Like, you know, we record podcasts, we work. It's the work room, right? You kind of have to have that room in your space for that. So the rest of your house can be for living. It can be for like, you know, a second, third place kind of uh mindset or an experience.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we need to up, we need to um we need to update it and make it that place and then make sure the other spaces um are no devices. Uh but I would say for us, I think for a lot of people, third spaces, third the third place, excuse me, are becoming um their vacation house. Or it may be their third place is the place that they always rent every summer when they go to Martha's venue. Um I also think that third place, third spaces or uh spaces where you're connecting with people are um it may be friends' houses, it may be like we kind of talked about this in previous podcasts. It may be every month I get together with my my friend circle that are all moms. Um and we get together and re-ro re-rotate it. I think this third space is um has evolved. And I think in 2026, where everybody is craving to be around people and to build communities in a more meaningful way. I think that the third space has to evolve more from just um a set physical space.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I agree. I mean, if you think about what's going on now, more and more uh creatives that I've noticed, they have purchased houses to create what they call retreat houses, and they're turning these so-called third-place environments that are like for close networks. So, you know, inviting friends or inviting like close associates, um, that's becoming like people third-place environments for a lot of reasons, right? Where it's gonna be, in the case of the Maroon House, this is like a lot of um people that come by, they're like creatives or they're like entrepreneurial, or they're just cool people who just enjoy culture. Some other um creatives I've noticed have created their third-place uh retreat house for certain types of communities. Some around queers, some around like uh people who cook, some around people who are all into like craft, or some around people who are just purely just you know, just doing Natama playing games. But these places are becoming more or less like community centers for their small individual. Versus like an open community or open third place environment that's kind of tests that can have access uh for lots of people or for all people. And you know, I think the whole uh idea of the um the Airbnb model that's kind of waning a little bit.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I would say it's definitely waning. I do I do think too, I think it's to kind of dove into our personal definition of of third space is a place where you can just be or daydream. Like, you know, I think that's also a part of having a third, being in like a third place environment. Like, there are some places in the neighborhood or New York City, believe it or not, where I feel like I can just daydream.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, can you name those places?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I would say like going to like um Brooklyn uh botanical gardens.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh I feel like, and I've gone there sometimes and had a blanket. You've been been there and just have a notebook and just sitting out there, it can feel like a third space. It can have some of the environment and uh some of the elements that feel like a third space. I know one time we did that and there were other kids there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And Garvey um started playing with the other kids, and we saw the other parents. I don't remember like talking, talking to the other parents, but I remember the kids were deeply involved in playing. So that felt like a third, uh, a third space moment. I would say um, we talked about the bookstores. I would say for sure that's me. I would say the public library. As you know, you know, I'm a huge advocate of the public library.

SPEAKER_01:

I like the public library, but I'm gonna be real with you. Sometimes the public library can feel like a courthouse.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, be I'm just saying, but the thing about the public library in in my neighborhood, the one that I frequent the most, every time I go in there, I see someone I know.

SPEAKER_01:

It feels Oh, yeah, it feels like it feels it feels a lot familiar.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, every time you go in there, you you catch up with someone you know. You there's a human connection there. Excuse me, either the librarians or other parents. So for me, it is a third space for me. Um, it is a community space. I would say too, um, what are places you think that are like uh I know we talk about this a lot, um third place or um third place places or spots that are kind of non-traditional that we are loving right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, here's the funny thing. For me, uh this is you know, long before you know I became a family man and a career creative. My third place environment used to be the record store. Now, if you think about everybody knows I'm a big proponent of music. Like music is a big part of what I do, right? So I would go and spend hours and upon hours just, you know, listening to music and walk out with like a hundred dollars worth of CDs. Now, um, if you're talking about music, um, that would be interesting because, you know, now music is more of experiential, it's more event-driven, it's more concerts, which are kind of expensive. Um, places like here in Brooklyn or even, you know, back in Atlanta, uh, we would go to a lot of the music festivals or the different types of like music pop-up events.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know if I would call those thirds.

SPEAKER_01:

But they were third place for me, right? Okay. So this is not necessarily talking for the general public, but I'm talking about for me, right? And I think that's that's fair. I think that's the bigger thing now, right? If we're asking individuals who even listen to this podcast, well, what would be that third place? Because third place don't have to be something that's, you know, for everybody. It could just be for you and a small group of people. But I think the bigger question to ask is why does it matter that people have a third place?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, but I mean, I think it matters because nowadays you we you talked about it a little bit in the beginning. Everybody's working from home. Like the home and and work has merged in a way like like never before.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh, even though some people are back to work X number of days, but like people work from home now, and you can be at home days upon days and never leave. You can be working and um washing clothes and ordering groceries and never leave the same spot. There's no separation. There's no separation. So that's number one why I think it's super important. And also, too, you know, here's the thing. When I look at people like my late aunt who passed away, when COVID came along and the church came around, the church closed for what two years?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's a good example. A church is a third place environment.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, the church closed, her third place went away just like that.

SPEAKER_01:

That's true.

SPEAKER_03:

But the even crazier thing about that is churches that I never would thought in my life went online. And so you have people, it's easy for an elderly person who even if that was their that was their twice-a week outing, they would be like, Oh, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna listen to church online now.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and so that's why I think that's but that takes away from um communing with people, communing, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Connecting with people.

SPEAKER_01:

It does.

SPEAKER_03:

Being in the fellowship hall. And even at church, I I think churches now, um, I mean, there are plenty of articles out there about how the black church is is no longer what it is, or any church is no longer what it is. But when you have revamped how people church, which means not in person, the third place of the definition of third place in church definitely changes. Um, but why does it matter? Is because we need human connection, right?

SPEAKER_01:

I agree to that.

SPEAKER_03:

You need you, you need listen, it ain't nothing like hearing somebody saying a beautiful hymn in person. I mean, if you're gonna listen to it online, you might as well just listen to the gospel song.

SPEAKER_01:

That's true. Because it's not about that in-person, it's just the feeling, right? It's it's it's it's more than just hearing it, but you can feel the energy in the room.

SPEAKER_03:

That part, feel the energy in the room. You can wait, the biggest thing is you can see everybody in the room and you can see how the energy is transforming them. So that has an effect on you.

SPEAKER_01:

It's shorthand language too, right? Yeah. Because you know, you see, if somebody's smirking and somebody singing a hymn wrong or right, right, you're gonna feel it, right? It's like an unlike an unspoken kind of joke, like, oh, well, you know, old girl shouldn't have been singing it like that, but we know that he can sing it or she can sing it or can't or whatever. It's a kind of a funny, unspoken kind of language, shorthand language that you can kind of only get in person.

SPEAKER_03:

And listen, the other thing is, you know, psychologically, is that you know, when you love something a lot, um you want to spend a lot of time with it, right? Right. You know, one of the things I saw, like all these shopping places, these retail spots. Um, I think I saw Coach. I mean, I like coach, but I don't know if I'm like dying to go to a coach coffee shop, but there's so many retail brands that are creating coffee shops inside of them, which means you're spending more time with them. You're spending more time. And I think stuff that you love or people that you love, when there's a space, a physical space for you to kick it with them and feel the energy with them, you're gonna stay longer.

SPEAKER_01:

I agree. And it's funny because I was talking to a young designer that I'm quasi-mentoring about how to navigate this new world. Um, she's recently graduated from a college down in Atlanta, uh, Kennesaw State. And she gave, you know, we had like a 30 minute session, maybe a 40 some minute session. And I think the one thing she asked me, uh, what should I give her in terms of like new advice or old advice that I take to heart even now? And I said, well. So I think you should be curious. I think you, as a designer, as a creative, you got to be curious. And the only way to be curious, you kind of got to get from behind your laptop. You got to leave the environment that you're comfortable with and you got to go out and explore. And I think third place environments allow for that. I mean, I just told you that my favorite spot used to be, you know, a music store. Now, of course, that's no longer around. But now I go and still search for.

SPEAKER_03:

Which is crazy. I mean, there are vinyl stores. There are vinyl stores.

SPEAKER_01:

But the moral of that story is that I was telling a young person who came into this creative profession during a time where everything was online. And I'm now telling her to go out and do more things in the real world. Because just experiencing curiosity behind a screen in your home, it's not going to complete that picture for you. You got to go out. You got to go travel. You got to go meet up with friends. You kind of need to go out and explore. See what people are doing right. See what people are doing wrong. Go to some festivals. But that third place environment for me is a feeling, is community, is people, is places that you've never been. It don't have to always be something that's familiar. It could be something that's completely new to you that you just open to learning and exploring and just giving it a chance.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think like shared, um, I think about Brooklyn Brainery. I think they're still around. But it's um it's a space here in Brooklyn where you can take creative classes. Um, and they're usually like, you know, what a dozen other people, a few dozen other people, and then you may take a class on like uh uh wood carving or like calligraphy. Um, and they've been around for a long, at least 10 plus years.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

And I I'm curious, you know, I haven't gotten an email from them around in a while. I hope they're still around. Um but they understood 10 plus, 15 plus years ago, that third places are important. So like for me, every now and then taking a class there, showing up there, um makes you feel it makes you feel good. You're around like-minded people who are interested in learning about the same thing. Um, so that curiosity that you just said.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, but taking putting the curiosity uh in a place and making it physical, I think is um, or how can let me let me let me redo that how I saying it. Seeing the curiosity in person.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Like you gotta see.

SPEAKER_03:

Not just scrolling it and liking it, right? Not hitting thumbs up, no, but seeing and feeling the curiosity in person is always a kid. Like, I'm super curious about ceramics. I like ceramics. I don't want to be a ceramic artist, but I'm like, should I? I've never done like a um pottery class, but maybe I should.

SPEAKER_01:

You never threw any clay and spun it.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I've never done that.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that dirty?

SPEAKER_03:

No, I've never done that.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean, and see, and see, and it's cool we're talking like that, because maybe that's one of those things. Um, you know, people like us can, hey, you got a curiosity around it, maybe go take a quick class on it, right?

SPEAKER_03:

The craziest thing is that um we have a whole our bar, um, our dry bar, what they call it, in at the maroon house. The entire wall is dedicated to ceramics. So we have so at first I was like, oh, it's all, you know, black ceramic artists, but I I have more than black ceramics, ceramics in there. But majority of their, they're probably about a dozen plus pieces. Um, I have a vase from the black artists guild, black artists design guild. They did like a collaboration with Pottery Barn. I have ceramic there. Um, um our dear friend.

SPEAKER_01:

Um Anita Major, shout out to you.

SPEAKER_03:

Anina Major. She, I mean, she blew up. I I think that that piece she gave us was like a trade, or she maybe gave it to us. She's like in the Black Smithsonian.

SPEAKER_01:

That's what artists do. We just we give work to our friends, and then we blow up, and then our friends.

SPEAKER_03:

We have her so so so many different ceramic artists. I got a gift from being on the board of the Anna Lewis Foundation. They gave me a ceramic, ceramic piece. Anyway, I'm saying all that to say, I'm like, oh, I'm interested in ceramics. Yeah, I probably should take a class. Uh, but I haven't. And and that's listen, that's how you meet new friends.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, let's listen. Let's take a quick break, and we're gonna come right back and get into some other things around like the human case, the culture case, maybe the economic case of what these third-place environments mean, and why do they even matter more even now? So, uh during this 2026 going forward. So, gonna take a quick break and be right back. Looking for creative inspiration? Graphite Pro Radio explores the intersection of design, culture, and innovation. One conversation at a time. Join us for deep dives into the creative process and game-changing ideas. Start listening today.

SPEAKER_03:

All right, we're back from a quick break, and you're listening to the Maroon Life Podcast. Uh, third spaces. Listen, I can't have this conversation about this and not talk about restaurants.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, this is like the cultural impact around this, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, just period. Restaurants as third spaces. Like, what does it mean economically to be a restaurant or neighborhood restaurant? And what does it mean culturally?

SPEAKER_01:

Um because you know, restaurants, historically speaking, have always been a third place for well, everybody, right? I mean, think about the restaurant you grew up going to, where it's Ryan's or I don't know, the old Pizza Hut, but any of these restaurants, you went with family friends, and you hung out for hours.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I think about one thing. I think about when I think about third spaces and cultural impact, I think about the Odeon.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, the Odeon, right?

SPEAKER_03:

That's what pops in my head about how you know you hear all these great stories about creatives in Lower Manhattan. They went to the Odeon from, you know, Basquiat to Warhol. And so I automatically see that Odeon, the very classic New York downtown cafe restaurant as a third space. But this it's also an economic um impact with having a restaurant that's been around 20 or 30 years. I mean, listen, in bed style, when I think about Peaches, that is the ultimate third space, right? Like it is a fixture in the neighborhood. Um it is a place that you know you can go inside of and you can sit at the bar. That's the best seat in Peaches, the original Peaches on Lewis Avenue. And you know that um nobody's gonna have a laptop at the bar there. But more importantly, um, hey, the economic impact. Craig and Ben have been hiring people for I don't know how long. Um, and if if there was an announcement tomorrow that they were going out of business, there would be a big economic gaping hole uh on Lewis Avenue, and people probably out of jobs. So third spaces um they also um massage um culture, right? And and money. They they are an opportunity to bring in economic empowerment to the people working there and the owners. So many restaurants are closing, which is like heartbreaking because when you see it sometimes, you're like, I can't believe it. And I think the visceral reaction isn't is not like oh my gosh, my favorite dishes is I'm not, I won't be able to have it anymore. It's like, oh my gosh, my place. Yeah, my third place. Your third place is going away, it is going away. So um, yeah, if we didn't mention it before, restaurants are definitely a third place, and they're all closing, not just in New York.

SPEAKER_01:

I've seen it in multiple cities, restaurants that we frequent in Atlanta, some in maybe Chicago, definitely.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my gosh, eats eats in Atlanta. I haven't gone there in years, but when I saw that, I was like, can you believe it?

SPEAKER_01:

But they are reopening. So that was the thing.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I saw that.

SPEAKER_01:

It may not be the same as it used to be on punts, but it they are reopenings. And I'm curious to see what the economic like fallout or impact that would be since they all open up in a new spot.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, yeah, like agave in Atlanta. I know we have a lot of people from Atlanta that listen to this podcast. Agave, which is right in Cabbage Town.

SPEAKER_01:

Just love agave.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I think they probably closed. This is January, they're closing probably now. But I wondered, I never got that question answered if they owned the building. Um, because they had been there like 20 plus years. But like uh, I was like, oh my gosh, I haven't gone there. But then I also was thinking, like, what's gonna go there? Are they gonna put more apartment buildings uh probably so on top of each other? Um, that people probably are not gonna know each other. Um, but that's a whole nother conversation. But yeah, I mean, listen, we haven't even scratched the surface of all the third places or spaces that people would probably um would say, yeah, if you're listening, drop us a note. Tell us what are we missing? What's your third, your favorite um third place environment?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, think about like these third places, um, like from a cultural historical standpoint, right? A lot of uh movements, to your point, like the Odeon, that was a movement of a lot of downtown artists convening there and and fellowshipping in that place, right? Uh a lot of times you look at with the SELC, like these guys were meeting at restaurants that they can only eat at because of, you know, obviously racism and um you know segregational laws back in the 60s. Um you think about like, you know, something that happened in the 80s, right? Even here in New York, a lot of people's favorite spots to convene at or like their favorite local pizza spot. But certain movements were, you know, uh more or less uh created in these third place environments, specifically around restaurants and places to eat. So what are your takes on that?

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, I think that it's becoming harder and harder for restaurants, I'm just being real, to be third place in um environments because they want you out of there.

SPEAKER_02:

They do.

SPEAKER_03:

They they listen. They want to, they want, they want, they want to flip the tables or excuse me, they wanna they need as many people to come in there and um to eat, and they need to be able to do it as many times as possible. So um I do think that there's some restaurants and cafes in Brooklyn. Like I think about Cafe Moto, which is in Prospect Heights, like you see restaurants like them um opening up at 7 o'clock, and from like 7 to 12, you can bring your laptop in there. People kind of take meetings there. I mean, I know I've taken so many meetings there. I have people meet me there. You can get your coffee, pastry, a little breakfast sandwich, and kind of linger, and it's no big deal. And then they obviously have um, you know, a dinner service, you know, with uh competitively priced entrees, but they're not gonna let people be sitting up in there at five o'clock, five to five to ten where they got reservations. But there are some cafes that understand and have the ability to be able to let people linger during the day. But I do wonder, um, even the few places I can think of off the top of my head, um, how long that will happen. Like, for instance, I've been going to the Ace Hotel for more than a decade.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03:

The one in the city and the one in downtown Brooklyn. If I need to like, you know, take a meeting, do some work, grab a coffee, grab a drink, even take a kid, you know, because the one in Brooklyn is easy to take a kid, plop the child on the sofa and um to work. But like, man, it's hard for me to think now in New York, all of the hotels that have co-working um in their in their lobby. And I bring up the hotels because most of the hotels, like the Ace, um, there are a few other in Williamsburg and in Midtown. They are they they're making their money, they're banking that as you're sitting there, you're gonna have a coffee, you're gonna have a pastry, you're gonna have a cocktail, maybe. A cocktail. Um, but I do wonder because sometimes you go in there, and I've told you this before. I'm like, yo, we gotta get here before nine because it's gonna be packed.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um if you go to these hotel lobby spaces after 10 o'clock, good luck with finding us, good luck with finding a place to sit down. You can get something to eat. Yeah, but uh you're not gonna be able to sit down.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, it's funny because um, you know, this ideal of hoteling, that's even coming to the corporate world because now I know, right? Yeah, because you know, now you don't really have an official place to sit. You have to book your desk.

SPEAKER_03:

Is that what you have to do?

SPEAKER_01:

I have to do that all the time. And that's not that's nothing new. That's been around. I would say the hoteling aspect of corporate has been around for a good solid maybe 20 years. It just became more commonplace uh over the last five years, and you have to book, right? And even that ideal of booking using apps such as you know, Resi or Open Table, this is not an ad, but people are now using booking apps to uh more or less go have a third place to either work or a third place to chill. Um, I mean, we work used to be a thing. You right? You used to have to use that to go for co-working, you book on that. Now there are these social clubs. Uh I've recently tried out one. I won't say the name, but maybe I will. I don't know. They give us some money, we'll talk about it. But it's a social club here I've been using uh to meet new people.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I've gone to at least two of the events so far. You gotta pay for it, but it is a way that I can book uh time to have a third-place experience, such as um pitching ideas for um like a design or app or just meeting people and doing like what they call like fast dating style interactions or networking, right? You get a chance to meet people. The goal here, but the goal here is to kind of get more people out of their own personal bubble and meeting people in real life. So a lot of these apps are creating experiences where people can book time to meet humans.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I didn't realize that you were booking the time to meet humans.

SPEAKER_01:

That's essentially what it is.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean it is.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, an RSVP is essentially booking.

SPEAKER_03:

You are booking, they know who you are. Uh you're in the system, you get the email. Listen, I think you're going to see more of um what you're calling booking um to be in third place environments. I do think that there's gonna be an onswell of people trying to find connection outside of home and work. And I would even take it further trying to find connection outside of some traditional third space environments, and the traditional would be the very traditional coffee shop, the very traditional church place. I think people want connection outside of those because we know that those two spaces that I just talked to, they're radically different from um from 2019.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah, they are very much so. I mean, I think the biggest problem that where there is a you know a coffee shop or uh a social club that's costs a lot of money per year or some type of app that allows you to book time with humans. I think the ultimate goal here, the human case for all this, is trying to solve loneliness. And is it this idea that true creativity, whether you're trying to, you know, figure out how to solve a problem or you know, come up with some great ideas or even just innovate, it doesn't happen in like isolation or asilo. It has to happen around other people. You need that friction to kind of work through work things through, right? To uh kind of get better understanding, to get insights. So, well, see, what I'm thinking about is is this bullshit or is it real? You know, I think a lot of times if you're like to yourself, you don't have that thing that you can kind of uh measure against, right? You don't have people telling you, hey, maybe you need to think about it like this. Or, hey, that's a great idea. Now, this is how you can plus it. But that usually happens mostly in real life.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I 100% agree with you. It's funny because um, as you know, I'm still writing, finishing my manuscript for the book that's titled tentatively the Maroon House Cookbook. And one of the things that I've been writing about over and over is that one of the reasons why we always have the happy hours, yeah. Um, or uh is because I have this kind of I call it a spiritual nudge. I will have a spiritual nudge to be like, yo, I need some people in my space. Um because it does give me the right people, right? I mean, and we talked about this in previous episodes about the right people. It gives me this creative boost, right? It gives me this energy, it gives me this fuel to propel forward. Um, and I would say it's the same thing about being in certain spaces and being in certain third spaces. Right. I'm not gonna lie. Sometimes one of the last two or three times I've been in my neighborhood coffee shop, um, I felt inspired. Um, I was meeting a friend and she was here from Japan, and Unbeknownst to me, the coffee shop owner and her have been friends for 20 years.

SPEAKER_01:

Obviously, you can get that if y'all didn't do it in real person.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, if we had just caught up uh on the phone or FaceTime, I wouldn't have picked that up. I just sent her, I was like, hey, I'm here at this coffee shop. And she was like, oh, okay. So when she got there, she was like, We've been friends for 20-something years. I'm like, oh wow. Um, so I feel good about going to the coffee shop. And I gotta add this whole thing. I know we've talked about coffee shops a lot. Somebody told me you, you should, you should learn how to make your own coffee and stop going to coffee shops. I was like, Well, I don't go to coffee shops every day and I drink coffee every day. Um, it used to be twice a day. Now I'm probably just at one cup a day. But pretty much at least five days a week, six days a week, I get my coffee from home, but I make it a point to have coffee out because hey, they say that 2026 coffee is going up, and one of the biggest things that all the podcasts are telling people, make your coffee at home. And I actually just kind of clutch my pearls when I hear that because I'm like, some of these coffee shops ain't gonna make it. If we're telling everyone to make their coffee at home and to stop going to coffee shops, that means our neighborhood third places, like coffee shops that understand third places, coffee shops like my neighborhood coffee shops, all of their um tables um are not for laptops. They have signs on there saying no laptops at this table. Uh so I say that like. Hey.

SPEAKER_01:

Support your local businesses. That's what you're saying. But also keep your ass home sometimes and make your own.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, I kind of went around the world to say this that third places are inspiring.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and people mansplaining coffee is kind of weird.

SPEAKER_03:

Creating your own third place at home periodically can also be inspiring as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. So I think to kind of wrap things up, let's think about this, right? Like, let's think about a couple questions here. Like, how do we really intentionally create these third place environments, right? If they're not going to be something that we own. Like what are programming ideas to help kind of create this? And what are the role of people in your community or your circle or whatever that is to kind of bring these things together? Like, I think to kind of kick it off, um, I think how you intentionally create spaces is, but think about the space that you would want to be a third-place environment. I know for us, we say, you know, our homes are kind of like our like third place environment because we invite close friends. For some other people, it may be a space that they go and meet, and that's their space, right? I think, you know, when it comes to programming ideas, um, you know, maybe there's some things you can do. Some people do game night, some people do portrait night. Some of my first things I used to do in my first apartment, I used to host portrait readings. Now, this is back during the whole Love Jones era.

SPEAKER_03:

That's so funny to hear that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I was I used to host portrait readings. I used to write poetry, but whatever. But, you know, is there a way to do programming? Some people, again, of course.

SPEAKER_03:

I like you calling it programming.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, right, you kind of want to have a certain sense of the same thing.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I will say though, yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Also, I think the um the role that I expect from the community of my friends is to just participate. I'm not expecting people to bring something, although that helps. I'm not expecting people to always participate, but you know, participation does make things more fun, right? But I I think that's the role of your communities when you want people to just be involved.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I would say like creating a third place or space environment at home does require you to really think about um your physical space. And it does, you do need to think about like, okay, what do I want to do here? And when I say physical space, when I think about our apartment here in New York, and when we want to do something, a third space, we take it to the terrace. You do, we have a terrace here, so it's easy to create this kind of third place, the terrace. It's hard in this room, in our living room, to do it, but in the terrace, you can create a third space environment. You have the sun. We always kind of it's funny.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03:

The sunset has been um the focal point, right? Um, so that's one way of like looking at your home and saying, what is the physical space where this third place moment can live? It may be in Athens at the maroon house. I have seen our front and backyard being the actual physical environment. Like we have turned the front yard into a badminton.

SPEAKER_01:

Badminton, it can be bocce ball. We've turned it into bocce balls. Sometimes it's a pool for the kids.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so you can take spaces and turn it into like this third space where people can daydream, you can relax. Hey, our friends conversation.

SPEAKER_01:

Our friends at Eschel, remember they invited us for game night.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And they had all kinds of games. You know, they had fools ball. We was doing the little funny games you see on the show.

SPEAKER_03:

They turned their downstairs. Shout out to the basement. Yeah. Uh, shout out to uh Dr. Kenny uh and uh Daphne Eschow, our dear friends that are in Athens. But their basement is like a fun place where they've created a third space where you can have easily a game night. So I do think it's important during 2020 2026 and beyond, if you're looking to say, you know, I want to stay at home or I want to connect with people without this time limit. Because you know, I just said about restaurants, like these folks don't want you into it.

SPEAKER_01:

They want you in and out, done.

SPEAKER_03:

They want you in and out. Um, how can you create this at home? Think about your space and what's the tiny space? If you got a hundred square feet of space, like how can I turn this into something? I mean, we've done trivia.

SPEAKER_01:

We've done.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we've done games, um, all those things. Um, you can do it on the fly, but a little thought always makes it better. A little thought about what you're gonna do and how it's gonna be executed.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, think about black people back in the days. Um, you know, a spade game would just pop up in somebody's house, and that literally turns into like an event. I am not a spades player, to be honest with you. It's it always intimidates me. Uh, but I love watching spades. I can be a great spade spectator of a spades game.

SPEAKER_03:

And listen, the funny thing about it is um when you talk about black people creating these third space environments in their home, the spades biz with card games is it because basically the table, the table becomes the center and the focal point.

SPEAKER_02:

It does.

SPEAKER_03:

Like that table gotta be set up right, it gotta be clear, you gotta be able to have enough space to lay out the books, and people kind of like are not like sitting at the table with the car players, you're kind of surrounding them, right? Right. So it's like um intentional and unintentional uh third place space that has all the things, great conversation. Um, if you go to a space party and you don't know somebody and you standing next to them, believe me, by the end of the night, y'all gonna get to know each other. Because, you know, it's rowdy, people are laughing, people are connecting.

SPEAKER_01:

That's true.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's very true.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think the, you know, go ahead and put a cap on this. Um, we would like to ask you guys as listeners, like, you know, what ideas do you think make you feel safe, or what's a cool place that you would like to create in terms of like a third place environment? What's missing in most of these places now? Um, you know, feel free to hit us up, text us if you know us, or you know, inboxes from the site. But definitely like to hear back from you guys about what a third place environment means to you and how would you create that going forward?

SPEAKER_03:

Live, be curious, and most importantly, love.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, love the spaces and places you visit. Peace, guys. Peace.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for tuning in to the Maroon Life, where creativity meets culture and joy. Part of the Caffe Media Network. Follow us on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.