Jo Webber & Sally Kay: The Experiential Shift & Why Strategy Is Overtaking Creativity

When two industry veterans with 25 years in the game sit down and start swapping war stories about “making it gold at 2am”, you know you’re onto a winner! 

In this episode of EventNewsDXB, host Ian Carless, is joined by Jo Webber and Sally Kay from This is Spiro and this is a conversation that cuts right to the heart of delivering events in Dubai and the MENA region. From impossible timelines and last-minute client curveballs to the growing role of data and what they call “experiential intelligence”, this is a deep dive into how the industry is evolving  and where it still needs to catch up.

We get into the shift from creativity-first to strategy-led thinking, why measurement is finally becoming non-negotiable, and how some brands are still getting experiential wrong by repeating the same tired old formats.

But at its core, this episode is about what actually drives impact. Not just what looks good, but what builds trust, changes behaviour, and delivers real return beyond the event itself.

Production Credits:

Presented by: Ian Carless
Studio Engineer & Editor: Manny Penamora
Executive Producers: Ian Carless & Joe Morrison
Produced by: EventNewsDXB & Poddworx

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Transcript

Sponsors And Scene Setting

How They Fell Into Events

SPEAKER_00 0:01

When two industry veterans with 25 years in the game sit down and start swapping war stories about making it gold at 2 a.m., you know you're onto a winner. In this episode of Event News DXP, I'm joined by Joe Weber and Sally Kay from This Is Spyro. And this is a conversation that cuts right to the heart of delivering events in Dubai. From impossible timelines and last-minute client curveballs to the growing role of data and what they call experiential intelligence. This is a deep dive into how the industry is evolving and where it still needs to catch up. We get into the shift from creativity first to strategy-led thinking, why measurement is finally becoming non-negotiable, and how some brands are still getting experiential wrong by repeating the same tired old formats. But at its core, this episode is about what actually drives impact. Not just what looks good, but what builds trust, changes behavior, and delivers real return beyond the event itself. All this coming up in the next 35 minutes. From full-size conference theatres to compact meeting pods, Minus45DB builds modular spaces that are quiet, customizable, and completely turnkey. And perfect for podcasts too. Check them out at minus45db.com. Event NewsDXB is also brought to you in association with This Is Spyro, a strategically led and creatively driven experiential agency built for a market where every detail matters. Their brand activation and events team deliver a seamless approach to concept, design, and execution, creating moments that bond your brand to customers. Check them out at spyromiddle east.com. And without further ado, let's get into the podcast. Joe, Sally, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm going to start where I always start, you know, for the last two seasons. Season three is not going to be any different. So, Joe, tell me, how on earth did you get into events? Briefly.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

Showing my age here started about 25 years ago in um PR events. Okay. So fashion springboarded quickly into aerospace and defense. So other end of the industry spectrum. And I think PR events is a natural progression into experiential. Sally was the other so same.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Yeah, exactly. Uh same. 25 years I've been in this industry and uh still loving it. And uh I actually, as a um a young girl, wanted to be an air hostess because both my parents are from overseas and I flew a lot uh as a child. Yeah. And when it was time to decide really what you want to do, I couldn't think of anything worse than going up and down the airplane going chicken or beef, chicken or beef, chicken or beef. So then I was like, okay, well, what's the next what's the next best thing? It was tourism. Yeah. So I kind of got into tourism, which somehow, somehow led into event management. Fantastic.

Experiential Intelligence And Measurement

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Well, let's fast forward to today. And you're both here, you both sat here with your Spiro hat on. So obviously I did a little bit of research before we came into the podcast for days, read up on Spyro. So what is it that differentiates Spiro from say other experial agencies in the market?

SPEAKER_04 3:57

It would largely be our experiential intelligence tools. Right. Um, so it's all about blending the the creativity, so the design with the with the strategy, uh, with the data, the insights, the measurement.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah, I think our um our whole ethos is creatively led and strategically driven. And I've seen a real kind of lack of measurement in the industry and especially from the clients. So this is a real focus for us, and we do have these tools that are able to support that and um effectively measure and strategically lead on these um on these projects and on these events.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Measurements are always a tricky one, isn't it, when you come to experiential because it's so touchy-touchy, feely-feely, and I'll I'll come on to that a little bit later in the podcast. But I know that you've both been in the region now for 12, 13 years or or thereabouts. And obviously you're you're both not from this region. I think you're from the UK, and obviously, very obviously from your accent. If you if people didn't pick that up already, you're from Australia. So, how's been your uh adaptations, shall we say, professionally uh working in this region versus you know back home?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

For me, moving here to the Middle East from Australia uh was a big culture shock. But being surrounded by brilliant people, I think has really been a key attributor to my success and to understanding these nuances and so forth. But definitely it was a it was a huge uh culture shock for me when I first got here. This is for sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Joe, is there anything that stood out for you? I mean, coming from the UK, I mean, obviously it's a very different market.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

For sure, and not just coming from the UK, but servicing the types of industries like the defence and aerospace, or you know, I did a stint agency side with a lot of automotive brands. So I think the cultures within industries is also really relevant, working with the Europeans who might be more respectful of timelines and a project plan and having a plan.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

That's a good place to start usually having a plan. Having a plan. Yeah. Um, and budgets, you know, um, change orders and coming from a culture where that's the norm, and then you come here and the client's like, change order, what? No thanks. And you're like, oh, well, how are you gonna pay for all of these additional things that you've asked for? And so you very quickly learn about the cultural nuances, you know, the cultural approach to money here is very different to it is in in the UK and Europe. And my first job out here, you know, it's a running joke. Like we were asked at at two in the morning to change the whole colour scheme, the whole thematic of the whole event. Um, and I'm like, oh no, no, it's two in the morning, it's opening at 8 a.m. And um, you know, the the agency leads like and I'm like, no, no, they they've asked for everything to be changed and it's 2 a.m. And they're like, shut up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it. So I'm like, huh? So now it's a running joke internally. It's like make gold, you know, just change it overnight. Um, so you know, internally, that's even come into this agency now. Um, with my current team, they'll still laugh at me and they're like, Joe, we make gold. You know, that's what we do. So make it gold.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

And the funny thing is, isn't it, that that if there's people, you know, sat listening to this and and watching, they'll be all, I mean, many, many, many, probably 95%, will be nodding furiously with their own story. I think one of the things that comes up for me uh a lot when chatting to guests on the podcast is the timing thing, isn't it? I mean, I also run an event uh uh venue, warehouse four. And I remember we had a a young lady come in who'd been perhaps six months in the marketplace and still could not get her head around. And she'd come from the UK, and she just could not get her head around or was struggling to. The fact that she, you know, what normally she would give be given a six-month timeline in the UK, she'd get three weeks.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

And Phil, it's funny, I've asked a lot of the guests this question, you know, where does this come from and how do we change it? And I I don't think there's an answer. It just it just seems to be a facet of the marketplace and it's something you deal with, or you don't.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

But it's agility, isn't it? And I think when you're in such a new country where everything moves fast and is built fast, you know, you spend a summer away and you come back and the whole road system's changed here. So I think when things like that can happen overnight, it's not surprising that your events are also expected to be delivered overnight.

Dubai Timelines And Client Curveballs

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah. How difficult then is it as an agency then to push back on times like that? Because obviously, you know, there are some things that we know that are just no matter how how much money you throw at things, you know, it uh you need time for a lot of these things. And sometimes, you know, there just isn't enough time. Like to your point, you know, how do you change the whole colour scheme for something overnight? There's a lot, there's so much fabrication there, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. How difficult then is it, uh, you know, in your roles to push back? And how much of that can you kind of head off at the past by uh I don't want to sound condescending, but by educating ahead of time. That's exactly setting expectations.

SPEAKER_04 9:23

Sorry, yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say, actually. It's not about pushing back because by the time the brief is in and the project needs to be delivered next week, there's no time to push back, right? It's a risk. You either choose to take the risk or you don't. But to your point, it's an education. Um, so you can't really change the project in hand, but then all you can do is work tirelessly to try and educate your partners on how you could do things differently next time. Um and we've done full strategy, deep dive consultancy pieces of work with our clients to come up with an ideal put-to process for them, and because they don't have one internally, and then that then impacts their agency partners. Um, and if they want to um impact their own quality, that's a decision they need to make.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's being also transparent as well, and uh having that kind of expertise or advice um uh to your uh clients by giving them the confidence that you know what you're talking about. And it's not about coming with the problem, it's about coming with the problem and also the solution and options. I think options are very important because if you're only coming with one option, there's nothing for them to choose from. And so it's almost like you're they feel like perhaps maybe they're getting backed into a corner or yeah, there's nothing to choose from. So I'm a big uh big advocate of options. I know it's more work, but uh definitely um coming with that confidence, I think is really important and creating that bond and that trust um with your client um so that they do um listen to you ultimately.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Now you've raised some some really interesting points there, and I mean one or two of them in particular, like build building relationships. That I'll come on to explore that again a little bit later in the podcast as well. Our industry, like many, goes in cycles, and we're very much into a cycle at the moment where experiential seems to be in. What are you most excited about, given that such a focus now is on the experiential business? And also what what sort of what trends can you see emerging?

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Well, we were laughing about this. I'm like, oh god, the dome's back, you know, in all of in all of our creativity, it's like the dome is back, and people want to be in there and they want to be fully immersed. So, you know, we're talking more from a tactical, you know, we're creatively led, strategically driven. So from a creative design perspective, we've got these fully immersive rooms back in. From a strategic perspective, within that room, you can then be fully immersed in the story. So that's where the strategy comes in. And you know, we're back in there with the full 360 experience, all the realities, you know, people don't just want the augmented reality or the virtual reality, it's it's mixed reality. Um, so definitely we're still trending on that, and it's back.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

And I and I think also as well, um, people do crave the storytelling and the emotion and the immersive human, I think, connection uh as well. But I think there is a certain fatigue when it comes to digital. So I think it'll be really interesting to see perhaps if there is a shift away from uh uh digital into more hybrid, or yeah, is it still very much that hands-on uh kind of experience and experiential experience that some audiences want?

Setting Expectations With Options

SPEAKER_00 13:10

To be honest, I I'm gonna refer to COVID just this one time because it's obviously it's been a topic that's been exhausted. But I do feel in this case, I wonder how much, uh and I guess this is my question to you is how much of an influence was everybody's experience throughout COVID in perhaps the the growth and the popularity now of experiential and in-person events? Because we had obviously such a long period of not being able to do that. And we there seems to have been sort of like a reaction to move against that now. What's your take on that?

SPEAKER_04 13:42

We were definitely uh forced into a pivot of virtual events, yeah. And well, you don't know what you got till it's gone. So I think the fact that no one could then have that human connection and that face-to-face experience, they were like, oh no, we didn't like not having it, so bring it back. You know, how many people would get forced to attend an event? It's like, oh, more small talk or um go to these exhibitions and they're listening to lectures and and seminars on topics and take it for granted. And then suddenly when it was taken away, it was like, oh no, that was even worse doing it online. Can we go back to face-to-face?

SPEAKER_02 14:24

But I think also as well, brands are investing more in experiential more than ever. But what we are seeing is the same static displays and the same formula, and I think that's not a creative problem, that's a strategy problem. Uh, and this is where I think strategy is leading um now uh and is so important moving forward so that these experiences are uh, I guess, m moving forward and becoming measurable.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

So when it comes to you know deciding whether an event has been a success or not, how do you manage that process with your clients? I mean, it's often talked about as ROI, but I mean there's lots of other terms as well. But yeah, so you talk to me a bit about that.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

ROI is just one element of what we're measuring. So we're measuring the total return on the TRO, we call it. Um and within that, we are measuring the return on the experience, the return on the operation, and the return on the community. The community is is fostered uh to remain way beyond the event itself.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

One of the things we we look at when we're doing experiential events uh is behavioral change. And that sort of leads me on to my sort of an another question for for you both. I mean, can experiential events realistically influence behavior, or is the role more about starting conversations? Who wants to go with that?

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Well, I'll start because experiences build trust, trust builds belief, and belief drives behavioural change.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

I think it is about what people feel and what they did, and so it's a measurable thing to have to have those. And when you're ticking uh all of those boxes, then that's um where it starts uh uh happening.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

I want to move on to uh sustainability because that's a big topic I know for you guys and also just in the industry in general. Where does Spira stand on sustainability?

Immersive Trends And Post-Covid Demand

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Sustainability should be part of your strategy, it's not an option. Obviously, everybody has budget considerations, um ethic considerations. You know, we don't just want to jump on the buzzwords, the the greenwashing, the carbon neutrality goals that are unrealistic. Um it's about being strategic and taking those small measurable steps to meet your goals.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Absolutely. Look, from my own experience, I think I don't I don't think any of us could sit here and and sort of put our hands on our hearts and say it's absolutely top of the of the agenda for for all our clients. For one or two, it it very much might be, you know, if you're working for Patagonia or somebody like that, and then clearly, you know, they've built a whole company based around that. Uh but for many, you know, I think I wouldn't be remiss by saying for many, it has been in the past a pretty much a box-ticking exercise. But how much has the the attitude changed around sustainability?

SPEAKER_04 17:32

I would say it varies from brand to brand. Definitely I have some brands that are much more motivated around our shared values when it comes to a corporate responsibility. Um there are some brands where it's not priority at all. Um some procurement process now actually involves a whole element on sustainability. Um and I have seen that trending probably in this region more than the western regions, which surprised me. So I think actually we're in a really good position to shape things when there's nothing there in existence. Um, you know, we worked with the Saudi Ministry of Energy multiple times, and in some of their flagship events, we're actually helping them to shape the sustainability uh policy for the country. It's huge.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Which is no mean feat, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I think look, the bar was pretty low, to be perfectly frank. So, and I'll say that so you don't have to. So I think anything that we can do to raise that bar is gonna be an improvement. Is it as far as perhaps some of you know some other continents and countries are possibly not, but is it a step in the right direction? Absolutely. I think whatever we can do to raise awareness and and towards sustainability is is gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

And lead by example. I was just going to actually say that actually. You know, if these are our best practices, so if I can sit there um with with my partners and say, look, you know, we have these carbon neutrality goals, we are doing this for corporate responsibility. How does that suit your brand? Do you want to be part of it? Yeah, we've we've almost then created a playbook that they can just jump on, yeah, rather than them having to hire a consultant to write them a corporate responsibility or sustainability or ESG, whatever the buzzword is, because it's the same face. We're just changing the terminology over time. Um, and we're we're giving them a framework.

TRO And Behaviour Change

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Yeah. I think it comes back to what you said earlier, doesn't it, about giving people choices and not it just being such an open-ended uh sort of question. You know, you can do A, B, or C. And also to the point that, you know, not everything has to be on such a huge, gigantic scale. I mean, you know, you know, small tangible actions make a difference. You know, we're not talking about saving a whole species, but what it can be, I mean, just I can relate this to my own experience, for example, in running the event venue. For many years now, we've insisted on no single-use plastics. So no water bottles, no plastic utensils and things like that. And initially we'd get a lot of pushback, you know, from catering companies that come in who go, what do you mean? And then they'd have to rush out and find a solution. And now, yeah, having built it in, people go, okay, yeah, we know already. And they come already. I mean, I don't know what they do in other venues and for other clients, but certainly in ours. Yeah, they come with, you know, wood or or in most cases, you know, proper porcelain or, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

And I think it goes back to your point about leading by by example. This is also starting in your own house as well. Not your own house, but meaning your own company. Uh, we have just a great initiative program, and it's about creating this culture within the the company, because I really do think it starts um in your own in your own house, if you if you want to call it that. Uh, it's so important to mold and educate and teach the people uh that are that are next to you that you're working with, because then that becomes um organic uh uh through your work.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

With the clients that do, you know, uh put an emphasis on sustainability. What about uh sort of post-event reporting then? In in uh what do you do for them? Are more clients asking for that now?

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Yes, a million percent. It's a real trend. And as a response, we've then had to invest in the right tools that can deep dive into that those metrics um and the analytics and do it with precision. Um, for sure, like some clients want to know exactly how many running meters of wood were saved by them having a reuse or recycle program. A we'll deep dive into electrics, furnishings, um, but th there's so much that can be redone.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

So looking ahead, I mean we we mentioned earlier that we seem to be in a a phase at the moment or a cycle of of experiential being the sort of the in thing. If we were to look ahead to the future, uh what does experiential look like?

SPEAKER_04 22:23

The future is knowledge, uh, is data. Um we have really heavily invested in our research, development, measurement, insights, data tools for this very reason. Um we have a tool called EMIA. Um, it's a reporting tool that really helps us future proof and creates a shift from we think this worked or this was liked or this was well received by the audience without having the real data behind it. You can then say we know this worked.

Sustainability Without Greenwashing

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Would you say this has got to be, I mean, this is a prerequisite, isn't it? Go moving forward. I mean, if it's I mean it's been done already, but you know, as we have more and more tools at our disposable with which to collect data, as if there aren't enough already. But as you say, it really is gonna be, it's gonna provide in many cases the blueprint for what you actually do.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Yeah. We want to know what is driving conversion, what's driving trust, what's driving growth? Um, and we need to be able to consult our partners on that.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

And so when you put your pictures together and you and your events, that's that's the starting point. At what point then does the creativity come in and that you start actually, okay, let's build a story around this that can elicit that can put all this into action? Where does that come in? And and and who on your team, is it you guys on your team that does that, or or you bring in people, or you have people that can come in as and when needed?

SPEAKER_04 23:55

We have a huge creative team. Um and we have seen a shift in trend. So there has been a requirement more focused on the content curators and the strategists and the copywriting and the story and the journey. People have so much information at their fingertips, you know. Uncle Google is everybody's best friend. So people have so much data available to them all the time, it's then making that data impactful.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Well, it's actually now Chat GPT. Oh, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

LLMs, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

And AI and so forth.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

Auntie Chat and Uncle Google, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Just quickly on that though, um, I think what I'm seeing um especially is a big shift towards AI being used as a a tool to, I guess, create these experiences and so forth for for you, which I think has maybe gone a little bit too far uh left, if that's how you want to kind of describe it. And uh what I'm seeing is that um in particular, just in one instance, we received an inspirational image of a Christmas tree. Yeah, and we were told to basically build it. We were asked, or the the RFP was to basically to build this, and it was to be kinetic uh as well. And when we actually looked into it and spoke with the suppliers and and so forth, it was physically not possible. Impossible. It was impossible to do. And so what we did was is we spent so much time actually trying to um produce and develop a Christmas tree that would kinetically move that looked obviously similar to to this picture, and we presented it and the client said that that doesn't look like the picture, and we said, No, no, understand, uh, but was this produced by AI? And they said yes. And yeah, what can we uh what can we do?

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I I look, I yeah, I I mean I I have my own take on that, which is I think, you know, uh probably very similar to many people, but I mean I think I AI can be very useful when it comes to ideation. But you know, we're still in a in a process with a lot of these LLMs where they they they spew out some pretty questionable things. So I think to use them as a as a starting point for ideation is is a great passion.

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Can be very inspirational. I think, but there obviously has to be still that human element that comes involved, that bec comes into play. And also to your point, you know, there are some things as well, I guess if you haven't given it the right the right prompts, you need to be asking, you know, whether or not that's you know, literally from a productional uh point of view, is this feasible? Yeah. One of the things I wanted to ask you about that when it when it comes to sort of the idea nation, um, is how important is it to have the client involved in that stage? I guess there's two two parts to this question. How important is it to have the client involved and how many clients want to be involved, or do they sit back and let you present and then jump in? It's it's a tough one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 27:19

It's back to your point around old long-term relationships versus new.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Right.

Data Tools Plus AI Reality Checks

SPEAKER_04 27:29

Um, I think when you're onboarding and partnering for the first time, you need to build that trust and you need to get to know the preferences, the playbook, you know, you you're building that out. So they might be more involved if it's the first time you've worked together. Um, whereas once you've established that trust, they're like, we know you know our brand, we know you get it, hands-off approach. Um, so it I think it depends on whether it's a new logo.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Does it depend on the individual as well? Because I mean, you know, if you if I were a client of you, I mean that's the sort of I get a kick out of that. I'd kind of want to be involved in that. You know, I'm sure there's probably a lot of people going, God no, keep him out of the room.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

Yeah, just let us do our bit and then some some clients are really excited by the process, um, to the point they want to come and sit in and look over the designer's shoulder and watch it get 3D modelled in real time, which we do welcome. And I I also think time is key here because I know software has evolved and we don't have to render all night anymore to get the the output, but it does help if the sets of design iterations are done in one go and it's done prior to rendering. Because at the end of the day, our partners need to go back to their management and show them a glossy brochure on what this thing is going to look like. And only if they've been part of that process can talk to it why that got changed, why that got removed, why that's been put in, is it feasibly and physically possible to build? And how much time have we got? Do we have time to keep doing loads of design iterations and then render in again for hours and hours? Or are we really short on time and we need to go to production tomorrow? Therefore, you need to come and see this before it gets modelled and rendered out, and you need to come and approve this before you then take that to your management. Um, so I I think there's so many different variables that go into the creative process.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

And I think I'm a big fan of a what we call a tissue session. So this is where we get to a certain point uh in the creation uh phase where you do invite the client to sort of have a progress check-in, just to make sure that we're not going too far. Yeah, uh off on track and and so forth. So I I do sometimes feel given the client, given the time frames, given the complexity maybe of the uh of the of the project or the brief, um a tissue session can be quite valuable.

SPEAKER_04 30:09

Definitely design subjective.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

What why why a tissue session? Do people leave in tears?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

I'm not I'm not sure. I didn't I didn't make that. Oh my god, you think we're so far off. I didn't make that. Oh my god, you've got it so right. No, I'm not too happy tears.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

I admit I didn't make that one up. Um, so it's a good it's a good question. Might uh might ask Uncle Google after after this one. But um uh yeah, no, definitely a big uh big fan of a tissue, uh a tissue session. It's it can be very, very valuable.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Listen, there's so many things I I could chat to you to you both about, but I am conscious of time. We do try and keep the podcast to around about sort of 35, 40 minutes tops. One of the things I would I will ask you though before we wrap up though, if there was one if there was one aspect of your industry and and maybe your let's say let's widen it a little bit, one aspect of your industry or job that you could change, what would it be? Whether that's whether that's timelines, whether that's budgets, whether that's I want a three-day working week.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

Yes, I mean let's not go into work life balance. Um we don't we know we don't do this job because we want work-life balance. We know it doesn't work like that. You know, the show is opening whether you're ready or not. And if you want a nine till five type of job, you you're not going into events. Go work in the show. Yeah, yeah. Let's not let's not go there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Um what about on an industry level then? What would make okay, what would make your life easier on an industry level on a sort of day-to-day basis?

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Uh longer timelines? Oh, 100 uh 100%. Uh this is with without a doubt. I mean, it's uh I I would definitely say that in a in a in a nutshell would be time um would would be timelines and and time frames.

SPEAKER_04 32:05

I think it absolutely shocks the other global entities of Spiro that we are always designing, pitching in the month for the month. Yeah. Um, it it causes all types of forecasting questions and anomalies, and um, you know, they think you don't know how to forecast, or it's like yeah, sandbagging, these opportunities. And I'm like, yeah, no, the client really did just decide to do this. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Um it's interesting, is it? We we I was chatting to a colleague who are a few years ago now, but he works for a for a much larger global entity. And he was being asked about forecasts for for Ramadan, and he said, Oh, I'll let you know after Ramadan.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

I'll let you know after Ramadan.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

And we all laugh.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

I mean, because we know exactly what that means being in this market. But you know, if you're not uh familiar with this market, yeah, you couldn't you can understand how that's a lot of shock and horror. I think I have another one for myself. One of my pet ones were just clearer briefs. I I mean, you know, when you get a clear brief across your desk, you're just like, oh my God, where did this person come from? Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

The the amount of one-line sentences uh that I've received is I I can uh yeah, cannot count them on one hand and and and uh phone phone brief where you're desperately scribbling um down. But like I said, I think this goes back to the strategic approach and the discovery session. If you can really start answering the right questions and almost squeezing it um uh uh out of the client, you're off to the right, um you're off to the right start. It's very, very, uh, very important to uh yeah to to uh take the the right approach from the from the beginning and dissect um a brief um as best you uh as as best you can.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

I'm smiling because my favorite briefs are the ones I've normally written on behalf of my clients.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Perhaps I should have done more of that. I I remember getting getting a brief once with in my production days that said we want to we want a 30-second television commercial. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Uh any briefing? No, we just want a 30-second television commercial. Uh followed by I think the next email was how much? Yeah. Right. So I just wrote back two million.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

Yeah. One million dollars.

Fixing Briefs Then Music To Close

SPEAKER_02 34:33

I actually just received a uh phone brief. I just took a um a brief over the phone and then uh was asking just questions on on the fly. And I received afterwards an email saying, thank you for your time. Here is the actual brief. I swear it was everything that I that I've basically word for word. I mean, it gives you a certain sense of um, I guess, uh pride that you know they've taken your word um, you know, for uh verbatim, if you will. But I think that also goes back to when the our global officers do get impressed by how quickly we turn things around. You also do feel very kind of uh because you're a bit chuff, you're a bit chuffed over it.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

It feels normal to us. So it takes the global office to make us go, oh yeah, that's not normal, is it? You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

So you do, you kind of feel like, oh yeah, wow, I am really uh I am really good at my job, or I am really, you know, special or something like that. So it gives you it gives you a little bit of an ego.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Uh we had we had our global president in town, so we have a bell in the office, and uh just to remind us to stop for a little minute and celebrate our success because otherwise I just feel like we're on the hamster wheel and and we never stop. Um so Sally's ringing the bell. So the president's like, wow, what did we win? It's just like Bentley, woo! And then he's like, Awesome, when is the event? She's like, Saturday. And he's like, what? I was like, yeah, don't mind us. Back in the meeting room, please, you know. Horrified. Horrified expression. Absolute horror.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Well, before we wrap up, I'm gonna ask you both uh an easy question. It's something that we I ask all the guests on the podcast just to finish things off. I'm a huge music fan, you know. Um, I'm now collating my second vinyl collection, having got rid of it all 20 years ago. Find myself back in the same place, buying all those records I used to buy before. Um, I mean, we all use music for different kinds of things. I don't know about you guys, but I I kind of sit back and chill out when I'm, you know, had a stressful day. What's on your playlist though at the moment, Joe?

SPEAKER_04 36:54

I'm the worst person to ask. Um my music has a personality crisis.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

So um does that depend on who's hijacked your Spotify account?

SPEAKER_04 37:04

Or who's hijacked my brain normally? Okay. I, you know, I love a bit of um vocal house, let's call it. I'm not a hardcore house. Okay. Then I can go into, you know, my entry into my Raven days, my garage. I liked the old school garage.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

What are you playing in the car at the moment?

SPEAKER_04 37:27

Probably a bit more sing-song-y. I like a bit of Lionel Ritchie or Alicia Keys, something like that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Sally? Um, I would say I'm very eclectic. Yes. Um I listen to nearly everything. And it depends on my, it depends on my mood, you know. So if I'm at the gym, I want something a little bit more high-energy, uh a little bit more um relaxing, obviously a bit more calmer. But I also will say to you, if you're in with me in the car, you say three-hour road trip, I say three-hour personal concert.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

So really fantastic. Well, Joe, Sally, thank you very much for joining me on the podcast today.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for having us. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Event News DXP was brought to you by Minus 45DB, the team busy transforming noisy conference, exhibition, and event spaces into slick, sound-reduced environments. The podcast was also brought to you in association with This Is Spyro, a strategically led and creatively driven experiential agency built for a market where every detail matters. Event News DXP was hosted by myself, Ian Carlos. The studio engineer was Manny Penamora, the executive producer was myself and Joe Morrison. And this podcast was produced by Podworks, one of the industry's leading branded podcasting content studios. And if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. It really does help us reach a wider audience. Until next time, stay safe.