EventNewsDXB

Vicki Burn: Balencing Creative Versus Commercial & Running Events Under Pressure

• W4 Podcast Studio • Season 3 • Episode 4

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There’s a moment in every event where everything hangs in the balance. Because for all the talk about creativity and production, what we really do in this industry is manage complexity. At scale. Under pressure. And with people.

This week's guest on EventNewsDXB is Vicki Burn, who's has spent over two decades delivering large-scale events and festivals and balancing everything that comes with it. 

Vicki is Event Director with MENA Live Events and the person leading the team that brought us Taste of Dubai and Taste of Abu Dhabi. Together, we talk about creative vision versus commercial realities, rising costs and sponsorship pressures and audiences that expect more than ever. 

We also discuss how the industry has evolved, particularly post-Expo, plus what leadership really looks like on the ground, and why burnout and wellbeing are finally becoming part of the conversation. Because lets face it, behind every successful event… there’s a team holding it together.

Production Credits:

Presented by: Ian Carless
Studio Engineer & Editor: Manny Penamora
Executive Producers: Ian Carless & Joe Morrison
Produced by: EventNewsDXB & Poddworx

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It takes time and effort to put the EventNewsDXB podcast together and we hope it's worth something to you. If it is, please consider sponsoring the podcast to enable us to keep them coming. Contact us for details.

The Moment Everything Hangs

SPEAKER_02

There's a moment in every event where everything hangs in the balance. Because for all the talk about creativity and production, what we really do in this industry is manage complexity at scale, under pressure, and with people. Today's guest has spent over two decades doing exactly that, delivering large-scale events and festivals and balancing everything that comes with it. In this episode of Event News DXP, I'm joined by Vicky Byrne, event director with MENA Live Events, and the person leading the team who brought us Taste of Dubai and Taste of Abu Dhabi. Together we talk about creative vision versus commercial realities, rising costs and sponsorship pressures, and audiences that expect more than ever. We also discuss how the industry has evolved, particularly post-Expo, plus what leadership really looks like on the ground, and why burnout and well-being are finally becoming part of the conversation. Because let's face it, behind every successful event, there's a team holding it together. All this and more coming up in the next 35 minutes. I really can't think of a better partner for the podcast, and if you haven't come across them already, Minus45DB are the team busy transforming noisy conference, exhibition, and event spaces into slick, sound-reduced environments. From full-size conference theatres to compact meeting pods, Minus45DB builds modular spaces that are quiet, customizable, and completely turnkey. And perfect for podcasts too. Check them out at minus45dB.com. Event News DXB is also brought to you in association with Warehouse 4, probably Dubai's best independent event venue. And Podworks, a premium branded podcast production agency with officers in Dubai and Kuala Lumpa. So without further ado, let's get into the podcast. Vicki, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Ian. Nice to be here. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for coming in. Now I'm gonna ask you something a little bit different before I get into my usual line of questioning. Job titles, always a good one. When you're at a dinner party or you're at a social function and someone asks you what you do, how do you answer?

SPEAKER_00

It's a tricky one, really, because we had this on a on a I think it was a Facebook group I was on. Like, how do people how do you describe what you do as a job? And you know, you go, Oh, I'm an event director. And people go, Oh, great. So, like, what does that involve? And you think, well, if I tell you everything I do as a job, it's gonna take a really, really long time. How long have you got? Yeah, this dinner party's not gonna be that long. So I go, right, here's a here's like the last rap video that we have of the last event I did. And they kind of go, Oh, so which part of that did you do? It's like, well, the whole event is what I cover. That's you know, that's my remote. I am the director of the whole event. And they're like, everything. Going, yes. Oh, that must be a difficult job. Yeah. Like, yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_02

The reason those tents are there is yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then they're like, Oh, what kind of qualification do you need for that? So, well, actually the qualifications I have mean nothing to do with my job at all. Like, you I you you can go through university and you can study events and everything else. But actually, I went to university, did a master's in politics, started working on events in my university halls, and went, I actually really enjoy this. This is what I like doing. This is fun. This is something that you know people have said is a career. So then I kind of went down the the hotel route and things, and that's a bit too corporate for me. Um, but yeah, you kind of try and figure out like, don't explain to people this is what you do because you enjoy it and you love your job. And then people look at you really strangely because you have a job that you really enjoy, that you kind of accidentally fell into. Well, let's pick up on that.

SPEAKER_02

Let's pick let's pick up on that because you have been in events for uh 20 plus 20 plus years. We'll just gloss over that yeah a little bit. So, how did how did how did you get to where we're sat right now?

SPEAKER_00

I ended up working for Classic FM radio in London.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and it was in their their commercial team, and part of the commercial elements was events and putting on concerts at the Royal Albert Hall and you know, doing these outdoor broadcasts with them things. And it really got me into how everything works. And I'm very much of a backstage person. I mean, you're never gonna get me on a stage doing something. Um, and it kind of just really was a point where I thought, I'm sitting in this commercial department where we do, you know, we do book publishing, we do magazine publishing, we do album production, and we do events, and like the event side was where I really felt comfortable and enjoyed it. And you kind of get to a point where you're standing in the wings at the concert and you're seeing everything going on on stage, and you're looking at the people in the audience and their reaction, and that's what fires you, that's what makes you go, this is why we do it. Now we know we're not saving lives, you know. We know no one hopefully isn't gonna die. God loving. Um but being able to do that and you see people and their reaction to the event, that's really what what I love. That's what really drives me. Like that's what I really enjoy about the whole industry.

Building Taste Of Dubai And Abu Dhabi

SPEAKER_02

Let's fast forward because obviously your role now, you're the lead event organizer, aren't you, for Taste of Dubai and also Taste of Abu Dhabi, is that right? So what's the sort of lead time that you look at for for the events? And um, and if I had to put you on the spot, what's probably one or two of the most sort of complex issues that you have to deal with when putting the the two festivals together?

SPEAKER_00

That you can talk about. I generally it's it's always a challenge trying to kind of look at what we're doing as a festival because we're a food festival. Some people come for the celebrity chefs, some people come for the restaurants, some people come for the cook-alongs with the local restaurants, and some people want you know, stuff for the kids. And it's it's trying to kind of balance all of that so you get an event that everybody wants to come to and that it works with our sponsors and our clients and everyone else. But yeah, it's a challenge. But for me, we like that we you know, we want to focus on the food. It's a food festival, we're a taste festival, it's a global brand, so we want to look at how we represent that properly. But for me, it's always about the restaurants and and what the value they bring. Because the idea is you get to taste the restaurants, you get to try things and then going, right, celebrity chefs. Who do we want to have? Who do we want to bring in? Who is going to be great for our audience? What's you know, what's on trend, what's not, who do people respond to?

SPEAKER_02

From an industry's perspective, then what do you think it is that's that's been behind the success of what is now a very long-running series of events?

SPEAKER_00

I think people just generally like it's it's not an expensive event to go to. And people enjoy the outdoors experience in Dubai. You get to have good food, some nice drinks of all sorts of varieties. And it's not something that you ego, you can't bring your kids to, or you can only do this. It's it's a really big, like open day in the park. And I think it's the thing is like it caters for everybody, and everyone feels like they can go and hang out. Like when I first started working on taste, however many years ago that was, um I had friends who would come and they would treat it as a brunch.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Those friends are now coming and bringing their kids saying how old I am. Um But you know, people have transitioned through the phase of coming as the party and coming as the family, but they're still coming and enjoy it. And now there's another generation coming in behind, and they're coming, they're enjoying it, they're having their party and everything else. And it's it's you see the different generations people coming through and enjoying it for all the different reasons. So it's not like it's not like a one size fits all kind of event. And I think that's what's quite nice about it.

Revenue Share And Sponsor Value

SPEAKER_02

How do you manage the sort of the commercial aspect? Because obviously a lot of the a lot of the restaurants that you have there are all they they pay a fee to be there. So how do you balance the commercial sort of aspect with the with the creativity? Because you know, if you've got sort of say a young up-and-coming chef that that is the flavor of the month, but but only runs a hole in the wall kind of kind of place, he clearly doesn't have the same spending power and budget as a as a big uh you know, name brand.

SPEAKER_00

So I mean we try and find a balance between it it's the idea is to have a sort of a fine dining restaurant style, but we try and find a balance between like big hotel brands and small independent restaurants to try and give everybody an opportunity to be there. And part of that way of doing that is you don't charge an upfront fee. So it's a it's a revenue share basis for these restaurants because that way we put in structures and equipment and power for them, and they bring in their staff, any more equipment, their food and everything else. We try and make it as balanced as possible to give everybody the fair opportunity to make money and to you know get the the maximum marketing opportunity out of it. I think from that point of view, it makes it much more accessible for a smaller, independent restaurant, as long as they've got the capacity with their staff in the restaurant and everything else to be able to actually operate because obviously we're running Taste of Dubai on a weekend, but their restaurants still open at the same time. So it's for them it's trying to have like balancing act, uh, and we support as much as we can and and hopefully get a decent balance between those bigger restaurants and the the smaller independents.

SPEAKER_02

So do some of the sort of larger entities subsidize some of the smaller ones? I mean, I I I'm thinking to uh perhaps of you know, perhaps one of the best examples of this would be Box Park in Shoreditch, which is in in London in the UK. And that was started sp with a specific aim, which was to provide really small-scale traders with a you know, with a 20-foot container from which they could trade from uh in the centre of London. And they were charged 500 quid a month, which for the centre of London is absolutely nothing. But then conversely, what the what they did was they then had the Oakleys and the Levi's and the other big brands come in and pay regular retail prices. And then obviously that helped them subsidized you know, the the guy who builds one bicycle a week and sells it. You know what I mean? Is that something you employ as well?

SPEAKER_00

We have sponsors for the event and we bring in different sponsors, which means that we can keep that cost that we're, you know, the the revenue share and the support that we're putting in for the restaurants. So we do have that as a model so that we're not relying on that solely as a commercial entity. So yeah, it definitely makes a difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And on the I'm gonna stick on the subject of sort of costs at the moment, because you know, we we both live in Dubai uh and we've both been here for quite some time now. Dubai has becoming become an expensive place to live. Yeah, and it's also become an expensive place to do business. How have you been able to sort of deal with the sort of rising costs of actually putting on events over the past because I think the prices have really gone up over really quite drastically over the last three or four years?

SPEAKER_00

They have, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So how how does that impact you as a as an event director when you're now trying to try to cost out what is it going to cost us to put all this together?

SPEAKER_00

It's a balancing act because you you want to put on a great event and you want to give the guests and the public the best experience possible. You want to hire the best people to as well. That includes your labor force and your cleaners and everyone else, and you want to make sure that actually you're hiring them from a reputable company who treat people fairly, pay them a good wage and everything else. So it's it's a really fine balancing act to try and make sure that you can actually do all of that while still turning a profit on the event. And I think it's become harder and harder over the years because obviously over the end of it gets more expensive. And it's a very fine, I mean, we have weekly finance meetings to make sure we're balancing everything. And it's it's one of those things where you want to make sure that you're not compromising on something by going, oh, actually, you know what? We'll save some money by hiring a cheaper labor company or something, because that's not actually for us, that doesn't sit well. We want to make sure that we're hiring people who are taking care of why the company they're treated with respect and looked after, and people work, you know, the proper hours that they should be working and everything else. So it's a it's a challenging one for balancing acts, really.

SPEAKER_02

And what's been your experience with regard to you know securing sponsorships for big events? Because I think we've seen again a decline over the last 10 years. I mean, it used to be, I mean, when I got off the plane 20 years ago here, you know, there was, you know, Coke or Pepsi plastered over everything, you know, from sporting events to music events. And that seems to have all fallen by the wayside now. And companies in particular seem to be a lot more uh fussy about where they put their dollars.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's it's challenging because you need to make sure that they're understanding the value they're getting out of the sponsorship. And it's often going above and beyond seeing what is and understanding what it is exactly that they're trying to get out of the sponsorship for the events. Because it's it's yeah, you're right, gone are the days that we'll just like stick your your logo on a board at the rugby sevens or you know, stick on a golf billboard or something. It's gone are those days where you have to actually, it's got to be something.

SPEAKER_02

What are they looking for now then?

SPEAKER_00

It's more experiential.

SPEAKER_02

Really?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. They want to go, we want to have a stand and we want to invite people and we want to engage people face to face, which is interesting because obviously a lot of stuff, a lot of things are on social, but they they want to make sure also they're engaging physically with people.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And I mean, we had our sponsor in Abu Dhabi, uh, headline sponsor was um Abu Dhabi Motors, and they had BMW as one of their brands. They said, we really want people to actually see the car, get in the car, touch the car, drive it. And rather than just like engage on like do something on social media, it was very much an experiential thing that they wanted people to be able to do. And that's I think quite telling from from how things have progressed that people want people to actively engage with their brands in person at the events.

SPEAKER_02

Where do you think taste lies then? I've just I've just thought about that now. Is that an event or is that experiential? Or is there or is it a very fine line?

SPEAKER_00

I think we're a bit of a fine line, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's so many different experiences you have in one festival. You know, you can cook your own food and you can try the food from the chefs, you can try different games from different food brands and engage with them. So yeah, it's it's quite a kind of like a hybrid of of different things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Now, obviously, big events like yours require a lot of staffing. Um, how have you dealt with that little conundrum over the years? Because again, it kind of kind of relates back to our, you know, to the comments about cost, doesn't it? I mean, we're we're fortunate now that there is a freelance market in Dubai in in many industries. Whereas I think, you know, certainly when I got off the boat, as I said 20 years ago, there wasn't, you know. So at least now there is that to be able to choose from. But is it harder or is it easier?

SPEAKER_00

It's kind of mixed because you there were so many agencies that are out there now. But then I I'm and I'm very terrible. I'm I'm quite agency loyal to, you know, ones I know, ones I've worked with before, and I know will give you a really good, good, well, not just a good rate, but a good level of person. And it's tricky because yeah, you get approached by a lot of I mean, we literally got doorstopped in our office by someone came in and went, I'm from an agency, I'd like to talk to you about my staff. And I sat them up, um That's better than an email, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02

Like, that's great.

Leadership Hiring And Team Growth

SPEAKER_00

That's so it's interesting. Yeah, it's really inventive or you just uh hey, find our address and find our office and then rock up. And it's it's I kind of like that. It's quite impressive, actually. Yeah, so will we have a side of chat? But it's it also depends on what you're looking for as you're staffing. And the agency thing has grown massively um since the you know the freance market and since you the ability to have your own company was opened up much more as well. And I think from that point of view, you can open like and look up anything on Google and you can find loads of different agencies here. But again, it's you have to go specifically, what am I actually looking for? And then I tend to go a lot of recommendations. And we have such a wide network of people here, and having been here for a few years, um you you know people and you you trust their opinion on things. And if someone says this person's recommended because they've done X, Y, and Z, then I'm gonna trust that person.

SPEAKER_02

On the on the similar topic when it comes to people, obviously you're in a role that uh requires you to manage uh a huge number of people. What's your approach to leadership? What what are you what qualities do you hope that you embody in yourself that you put out across your team?

SPEAKER_00

I'd say my first rule when I'm working is I'm never gonna ask my team to do something I wouldn't be prepared to do myself.

SPEAKER_02

Good start.

SPEAKER_00

Which often infuriates the labor force because I'm trying to carry boxes around site and they're going, Why are you carrying stuff? Like, because it needs to go from A to B. That's you know, I'm never gonna ask someone to do something they wouldn't do myself. Be kind. I think I've I've been through enough companies and had a couple of great bosses, had a couple of terrible bosses, and you see qualities in people and you go, I never want to be that person. I never want to make somebody feel that bad. And I try as much as possible to be empathetic and understanding and supportive and really help my team grow. I don't want them to work for me forever. Like that would be me holding them back. I want them to progress, I want them to want my job. Um, I don't want my boss's job, but you know, in case she's listening.

SPEAKER_02

Um She's happy where she is.

SPEAKER_00

Um, you want people to really aspire to to learn stuff and and do great things. So if I can do anything for my team, it's to help them on and and get them into their next role. So teach them as much as I can and I'm capable, and give them opportunities to to learn new things and and progress. And I really want to make sure that because you know, there is a younger group of us in the industry, group group with people younger than us in the industry who want to learn, they want to grow, they want to develop. They don't want people who are holding them back. And you see it as well in the marketplace now where it's a challenge, because obviously there's a challenge over rates and people at different levels and different experiences, and you kind of you then have to look at like, what are you hiring for? And do you want to give this new person an experience? Or do you want to take someone and tried and tested, been there, done that, and you can kind of point them in the right direction off they go and run with it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So it's it's it's weighing that up and and sometimes looking at when you're hiring people, going, I'd like this person on my team, but this person I think's got great potential. And I'm a sucker for interviewing and going with my gut. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Um, and going, you know, this person sounds okay on paper, I want to chat to them and see. And if I get the right feeling about somebody, I'm like, yeah, I really think we could work well together, and I think that I I could help you, then I kind of go with that.

SPEAKER_02

On a similar subject, we work in a what has well certainly traditionally been a very male dominant industry. Are you seeing more women come through into the events? I mean, clearly you're a woman in events, but you know, often, you know, certainly when you go out onto on onto an event floor, yeah, there's a there's it's very man-heavy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it is. Um, but there are a lot of us out there. Yeah. You would be surprised. I'm actually part of a WhatsApp group that's uh it grew out of COVID um when we're all obviously sitting at home not doing a lot. And um I think there's a hundred and something of us now on the WhatsApp group.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

We're all women who work in events in different, different get you know, different ways and things. You've got people who work in production, stage management, show callers, um, site managers, event directors, like there's a whole like designers and everybody on this WhatsApp group. And the caliber of women on that group who work in events is insane. And they are a phenomenal group of women who will support you to the ends of the earth, no matter what event you're on. I mean, I worked on the the Green Day concert of um last year. And every time um Johnny, the operations manager was like, we need to hire for this role, and I put it on the WhatsApp group. And then at one point he turned around and went, Vicky, there are a lot of women in this office. I was like, Yes, there are Johnny. He's like, but they all came from the group. I'm like, yes, they did. And he's going, Wait, that's a lot of you. It's like there could be more. There could be a lot more. It doesn't stop there. It's like we're gonna take over the world. But I mean, we all I mean, none of them, we're all quite terrible at putting ourselves forward and putting ourselves out there and going, hi, we're here, we can do this. But there are so many phenomenal women who work in the industry. And yeah, we're not everywhere yet. I mean, when we did the Taste of Abu Dhabi site build, for a week I was the only woman on site. I was extremely protective about the bathroom.

SPEAKER_01

You had the key.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I had the key, yeah. But it's one of those things where when I first moved here, yeah, there were it was very hard to find other women who did, especially site work, because it's not the glamorous fun side of events. But I know some phenomenal event production directors and managers who are women who go out there and they they're not shouting about what they're doing, they're not screaming about it, they're not posting all over LinkedIn and everything else, just quietly getting on with their job. I think it's possibly more a trait of of women like not shouting about what we do, but there are some incredible. True, yeah. We do just come in and we get it done.

Women In Events And Dubai’s Shift

SPEAKER_02

Now, you moving on, you've been here, you've been in the region for for quite a while now. What have you noticed in terms of the event industry and the change that it's gone through from when you first arrived? And in particular, where do you think we Dubai stands now on a world stage when it comes to events?

SPEAKER_00

I think there I said we've got a lot more professional. In terms of when I first moved here, it seemed like health and safety was a bit of a swear word.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, it was not existent.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Flip-flops.

SPEAKER_00

People would climb up scaffolding with no harnesses, helmets, and no shoes. So I think from that point of view, I mean, you see this, the growth of the industry, it had to happen. It had to get regulations, it had to be professionalized, it had to have these standards put in place. I mean, you look at the growth of uh Jam, for example, and their health and safety department and their division and what they do.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I mean, 20 years ago, you wouldn't have had a company, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_00

Well, exactly, yeah. And you see that existing and thriving now because people are bringing in those standards. They're you know, event companies are going, well, Actually, yes, that's been done that way for years, but that doesn't make it right. That doesn't make it the way we should still be working. And employing standards and talking to people, and actually, because we want to be recognized on the international stage, we want to do these global events and we want to be able to, as a, you know, as a nation, really grow and be, you know, brand Dubai is a huge brand. And it's it's something that you know everyone is very proud, and we're all very proud to work here and live here, and we're very fortunate as well. And I think from that point of view, we need to make sure that we are at the same level as everyone else. And I think through different events and different things we've grown is a you know, when Expo happened and suddenly like the number of policies and procedures that came into place. There were a lot of policies and procedures that came into place.

SPEAKER_02

I was just gonna bring that up because you'd mentioned cop, you'd mentioned COP and Expo earlier. And I was just gonna I was gonna actually ask, I mean, obviously, you know, they are absolutely enormous events, and then obviously the number of international um players that are coming into the marketplace as well, and with them all the procedure and the guidelines. How much has of that has influenced the local market?

SPEAKER_00

Hugely. Like, I mean, you couldn't you couldn't be in the local market and not work on Expo.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Like you just I don't know of anybody who works in Vents who didn't work on Expo to us. The number of people who then were in the market after Expo, with that knowledge, with all that understanding and the policies and procedures and the documentation and the ways of working that came out of that, I think that really helped everyone transition and kind of go, okay, I've taken all those learnings, what can I do with it? Where am I going to go next and what am I going to work on next? And it was a huge opportunity for everybody to really learn so much and and to develop. And actually, when I went to work on COP28, the number of people I met on the COP28 team, whether it was from our side on the government side or from the agency side, that were on Expo because everyone knew the venue, you knew the ways of working, you were all, everyone had that standard of working, who then came back onto that event. And I think it's it's something that really drove things in the region to to a different standard. And it's I think it benefits us all because you've got international companies and international brands that come into the region, they want to do events, they want to host conferences and expos and things in the region. And you've now got a talent pool, a professional talent pool who understand these international ways of working, these international brands that actually now don't have to bring in people from outside. You're not having to fly in loads and loads of freelancers from other country because people are here and they're ready and willing to take on those projects. And I think that's that's the big shift for me. When I first moved here, everyone was brought in. Yeah. Your site management, your stage management, your anybody was flown in from another country. Yeah. So now the resources are in the country and everyone's here, whether they're working for an agency or they have their own visa or however it works, the talent pool is now here in the country. I think that's a massive shift from how it used to be.

SPEAKER_02

Now moving on, you mentioned earlier, you know, we we're uh we're very good at working all hours that God says.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, we are.

SPEAKER_02

But, you know, increasingly well-being is becoming a key topic in our industry, isn't it? Thankfully. Thankfully. You know, and also, you know, sadly as well, the the subject of burnout. Uh we're seeing that highlighted more and more and more these days. Why has this become so important?

SPEAKER_00

I think people have recognised more recently, we've probably got like maybe five or six years, how dangerous it can be to let people get to that point and and to risk people's health. And I mean, I know, especially when we went through Expo, it was a six-month-long event. Yeah. That's such a long time for people to be under that level of pressure. And I know there's quite a few people who came out of it and felt you feel like a loss at the end of an event. And it is one of those things where you know you're going through an event and you're high and you're high and you're high, and everything's amazing, amazing, amazing, and then the event stops and there's nothing. And it's like an emotional roller coaster that you're going through in this industry. And I think it started becoming recognized that people need help, people need support, and that you can't make somebody work 18 hours a day, every single day of the week until they fall over and hope that there's somebody there to back them up because quite often there's not. And you need to take care of people's well-being. And it's it's a struggle. I know a lot of people, especially in the industry, have struggled with this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

A lot of friends and colleagues have have been through different areas of burnout and health issues and mental health issues. And it's something for me that I'm I'm very passionate about with my team and with the whole company. I mean, we're not a very big company worker on the event, but I will schedule everybody. And I did this whole taste of Abby Dhabi, and I said, right, I don't care what you want to be doing, whether you feel that you should be here at this time of night. This is the time period you're going to be working. And we will make it so that, you know, there is someone to pick up after you because I've been there, I've worked those hours, I've felt like I was falling off the edge of the cliff and there was no one to catch me. And you get to that point and you go, I can't do this to my own team.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I don't want someone else to be in this position and feel like this because it's awful.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Where do you draw the line then? Where if you see some, I mean, for example, if you see someone struggling, where do you draw the line? I mean, that may be where you draw the line when you actually see someone struggling.

SPEAKER_00

I say my my problem, and my husband will tell me this is my own fault for doing this, is if he has he's obviously right.

SPEAKER_02

You're laughing when he listens to you're talking about work-life balance.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, that's the thing, because I will always say, I need to do this so my team get time off. And he's like, Yes, but that means that you're doing that so the team get time off. And I know it's a problem. And I know that I will often go, right, you guys go home, get some rest, I'll stay and do this. And he's like, Yeah, but who's gonna take on after you? I'm like, Well, no, that's I'm the director that you know stops at me, so I will make sure everyone else is okay. And yes, he does have a slight issue with my work-life balance at this time of year.

SPEAKER_02

So, on a personal level then, how how do you manage the stress?

SPEAKER_00

I go to the gym with an incredible group of women. Again, it's another group of crazy women. Yeah, um and I lift very heavy weights and I talk to them, and we all work in very, very different fields.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Very, very different fields. So it's a little bit like training and it's a little bit like therapy. Seven o'clock in the morning, eight women in a gym lifting weights, talking about anything in the world, yeah, no judgment. And it's it's amazingly calming. Actually, no, one woman on the event group is in that gym. Um she was the one who got me into it, actually. And she's like, She's like, you might benefit from this. And she was completely right.

SPEAKER_02

It's a very personal thing, isn't it? Stress. I mean, I I I look, I don't organise events. I the closest I want to get to organising events is hosting them through our event venue, and that that'll do fine for me. Um, I mean, as as I mentioned before, my my background was television production. And I remember for the longest time, I used to, I'm gonna say this, I used to handle stress very well. And I was told something very early on, and I don't know uh whether this was a good thing or not, and perhaps doesn't apply to the event industry, but um I used to direct a lot of live sport. So you can have 20 plus cameras and you can be in there. And I remember being basically, you know, at the desk one day, and then in one of the breaks, the the client coming to me and saying, Oh my god, you know, aren't you stressed and all the rest of it? And I remember saying, Well, no, not really. I said, Not at all. I was just like, Well, why not? Why not? You know, how do you keep you know your head on? And I'm like, Well, if you really want to know, I just sit there. And if I do feel myself getting a little bit excited, I just go, you know what, what's the worst thing that can happen? Will anyone die? Which is true. And in my situation, no, the chances, I mean, and certainly if they were to, it wasn't something that was exactly that I'd caused. And I said, you know, the worst thing that can happen is that we go off air, you know. And then I'm thinking, oh, that's my client. They're not worried about that. Maybe that's not what they want to hear, but yeah, that was how I manage the stress. And somebody told me that earlier. They said, they just literally said, you know, just think about it. Is any Ian, is anybody gonna die? What's the worst thing that can happen? You drop off air, you you, you know, then you take two minutes or 30 seconds, you get your shit together and you work out how to get back on air as quickly as possible. Slightly different in events, especially when you're sort of public facing with thousands of people, you know, in a venue where absolutely anything can happen.

SPEAKER_00

We're not really gonna say, well, you know, the worst thing is someone dies, and everyone goes, oh my god, you know, like, well, actually, that is the worst thing that could happen, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. But it's a it's a very personal thing, isn't it? I mean, and everybody deals with it in in very different ways. Yeah. And look, I think we, you know, I think the event industry, unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, um, there is an inherent amount of stress uh across just about every single role.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Uh and I guess some of it is just down to how well you are as an individual to adapt to those levels, you know, to whatever stress that you're you're put under.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I think for for me now, it's about the team that I have under me, and like we said, the generations that are coming up and coming through and learning about the industry, is not trying not to put them under stress because it's going to happen either way, is helping them learn how to handle it now. We've all been through it. We've been through the time in the industry where it was like a badge of honor to be the last person on site and be the one going, Oh, I've had three hours sleep in four days.

SPEAKER_02

And that viewpoint's very much changed, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, completely. Yeah, thankfully. And you really have to push it. I mean, I know that it used to be me. I know I used to be that person going, oh, you know, I've slept on site for four days, I've not been home, I'm wearing the same clothes and all this kind of stuff. And it genuinely used to be a thing where it was a badge of honor to be the last man standing. And to try and change that mindset is hard because people have this this, it's like a guilt thing. If I'm not on site, I'm not doing my job. If I'm not on the phone 24-7 or on my emails responding at two o'clock in the morning, like I will send emails to my team at clock at two o'clock in the morning because that's when something pings in my brain. I don't expect them to be awake at two in the morning to actually answer it. But you know, I'm if I wake up and go, Oh God, I forgot this, I'll quickly send them an email about it. Then they call me in the morning and go, Why were you awake at 2 a.m.? So, well, because it just it went into my head and I had to tell you about it. Now, as my husband will say, he bought me a notepad next to my bed that I should just write these things down in rather than bothering anybody else.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But it's it's one of those things where we all work very differently. But it's about trying to kind of steer it away from that old way of thinking.

SPEAKER_02

It is. And I think one of the other things that I was um to that point, one of the other things that I learned as well. Um eventually, I think as you as you sort of rise up the ladder in, you know, the corporate ladder or whatever you want to call it, um, what I also learned was that hire well, you know, hire people who can, if you can, hire people who can do the jobs better than you. Yeah. It's certainly equ equally, but if if you can find them, if that and they're great, bring them on board because at the end of the day, they will make your life a lot easier. So much easier. Yeah. I mean, never mind the credits at the end. I mean, yes, look, it's your name at the end. So you often we get all the glory, right? If you're at the top of the city.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, I'm terrible for that one. If someone says, Oh, you did a great job, and like it was my key. Oh, it wasn't me. Wasn't me. It was all those people over there. It was all those people, please don't look at me over here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But that but that's that's also brings up, you know, that also brings up an interesting point, isn't it? Because there's not everybody that uh there's a lot of people that feel threatened about hiring people who are uh, you know, in their own perception, either equally as good at or uh what they do or better, you know. There's that fear of, oh, but they'll take my job.

SPEAKER_00

But it makes your life so much easier.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

If you hire a really strong team, and yes, fine, they you know they're better than you at some things, great. That means they're gonna take charge of that element of your job and do it for you. And then they will learn other things and they will thrive. And eventually, yes, they will want your job, which is great because then you can move on and they can have that job.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's definitely a thing where, again, I go with my gut with hiring people because I want to hire somebody that will want to learn, will want to develop, and I can engage with on that kind of level and talk to them about and what do you want to do?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Why Live Events Win Plus Ambitions

SPEAKER_00

What what's what's your job goal? Where do you want to be? Do you want my job? And if they say, Yeah, not really, I mean, well, what do you want to do? Why are you here if that's not what you want? Because you should want my job. I mean, besides the fact that you see how stressed and crazy I am, you should still want my job at the end of the day. And it's it's one of those things where I want, I want to still look back, you know, when I'm however old, like seven to odd and look back, and the event industry is thriving, and there are people that I worked with who are doing my job and you know, my level job, whatever, and actually come come through the ranks and everything else, and to see the industry still going. Because I don't feel like even with AI and technology and everything else, you can't beat a live event experience. And it's something it's it's something visceral, like you you just can't beat that. And it's it's why we all do it. Let's face it, we all do it because we love it, and it's a huge rush during events, and we all enjoy it. And that's what you give the guests and the clients and the get and the participants and people who bear the tickets. You give them that rush to the event.

SPEAKER_02

It is, and you know, and as much as I hate harking back to to the whole COVID theme again, but I do think it it's sort of given us two perspectives that have, or two positive things that have come out of it. I think to what we were talking about earlier in terms of well well-being. Um, I think you know, COVID gave a lot of people time to just to sit and think and just check out from their daily hustle and bustle, which normally you wouldn't have. And I think a lot of people came out of that and went, ah, you know what? I actually don't want that anymore. I want a little bit more me time or whatever. That was that was one point. Uh and then secondly, I think the other, the other point that came out of COVID was, you know, we were starved of interaction for a long period of time, for, you know, in many cases, 18 months and more. Yeah. Um, and I think that made people realize that actually this, this face-to-face, this this getting in a room or getting in a big event venue or going to a concert really matters. You can't do that, you can't replicate that online. No, hybrid events will not that will not press that button for you.

SPEAKER_00

No, I mean that's the thing is you look at from a corporate event perspective, yes, that's great. You can do these things online, but if you want people to genuinely engage with their colleagues or with their customers, you're still doing an in-person event. I mean, look at Gulf Food, it's massive. Yeah, it's it's now in two venues this year. Yeah. You wouldn't get that that level of engagement and impact if you were to move it online.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It just it's people want to physically meet other people. And until we find a way of replacing that, events, I think, will still be the amazing industry it is and why we all love it still.

SPEAKER_02

Is there anything you still are you still are there any boxes that you feel that you have not ticked yet? What are there anything on a personal level that you want to achieve from from events?

SPEAKER_00

It still kicks me that I didn't work on London 2012.

SPEAKER_02

No. Well, we can't turn back time.

SPEAKER_00

No, we can't. And I'd still love to work on Olympics one day. Right. I think in some way, shape, or other, I might just volunteer one near one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but I'd still love to love to be involved in one. I think that's one like biggie that I think one day I'd like to to do something to do with an Olympic Games.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know, it's just the scale of it. Like it's so immense and so incredible. And it brings together literally countries across the world. I think from that point of view, it's it's like it's it's one of those big things where you know, one day. Yeah, one day it'll it'll be hopefully in the future, and I'll get to do it. But like professionally wise, I I like where I am and like I I have a nice job, I have a lovely team. We are a small company, but from that point of view, you get to have great conversations with people who own the company. And you talk about what can we do, what can we change, right? And we have really good open conversations like about sustainability and about delivering on government mandates and working through transitioning different things and actually having proper conversations that you wouldn't have in a big corporate company. Right. And I think from that it's quite nice to be heard and have a voice and and really engage with the people who own the company who get the ultimate decision. And for me, that's a game changer.

SPEAKER_02

I think just on a very per you know, on a very basic level, I think most of us we we need to feel like we're progressing, don't we? I I think you know, there's only so long you can coast in a role or coast at doing something, and then you kind of go, Oh, okay, this isn't this isn't this isn't scratching that itch anymore.

SPEAKER_00

It doesn't challenge you. You you like the event, but doesn't give you as much joy as it used to, you yeah. Yeah it's a challenging one.

Music Choices And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_02

And finally, on a stress level. I listen to a lot of music. Yeah. And that tends to get rid of my stress levels quite a lot. Um yeah, no surprise that I'm now, you know, collecting vinyl all over again since it seems to be coming back into fashion. But um we all use music in different ways, don't we? As I say, I I use it to get rid of a lot of my stress. Yeah. What's on your playlist recently?

SPEAKER_00

It's a little bit weird neglectic, to be honest. Um, having worked at Classic Event in the UK, I have a lot of like relaxing classics um to try and calm me down. Okay. Um if I'm feeling angry or stressed, it's quite a lot of EDM. Okay. To block everything out. Or if I'm a little bit tired and I'm driving back from site, it's windows down and show tuned.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

There's a lot of a lot of uh show tunes and a little bit of barbestrising going on and singing very loudly in my car. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02

Well, Vicky, thanks a lot for coming in and joining me on the Pancake.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for having me. It's been fun.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks. Event News DXP was brought to you by Minus45DB, the team busy transforming noisy conference, exhibition, and event spaces into slick, sound-reduced environments. Event NewsDXP is also brought to you in association with Warehouse 4, probably Dubai's best independent event venue. And PodWorks, a premium branded podcast production agency, with officers in Dubai and Kuala Lumpa. Event NewsDXP was hosted by myself, Ian Carlos. The studio engineer was Manny Panamora. The executive producer was myself and Joe Morrison. And this podcast was produced by Podworks, one of the industry's leading branded podcast production agencies. And if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. It really does help us reach a wider audience. Until next time, stay safe.