Running with Problems
A podcast about the lives of runners and the problems we face.
Running with Problems
From Borderline Diabetic To Podium OCR: John Castle’s Late-Career Rise
A single photo can flip your life. That’s where John Castle’s story begins—49 years old, 45 pounds heavier, borderline diabetic, and staring at a version of himself he didn’t want to keep. Fast forward to today and John is a force in obstacle course racing, stacking Spartan Ultras, conquering World’s Toughest Mudder, and chasing Barkley dreams with an approach built on simplicity, routine, and a ruthless mindset.
We dig into the craft behind his late-career rise. John lays out his daily hill—900 feet from his front door to the county high point—and how he threads running with functional strength: burpees at half-mile marks, rock carries, rope climbs, pull-ups in the woods, and box jumps on a cable spool. He explains why he quit the gym, modeled training after top OCR athletes, and switched to high-rep bodyweight work that solved decades-old knee pain and sharpened his grip, durability, and efficiency.
Race day strategy gets real. John talks pacing a 50K with 60 to 70 obstacles, keeping his heart rate honest, and using transitions to refuel without ego. He shares what didn’t work (carb loading) and what did (beet juice, steady hydration, clean habits). We unpack the art of not quitting: finishing a lap with a fractured finger, course-finding at the Barkley Fall Classic by reading footprints in mud, and staying composed when fatigue blurs judgment. His take on aging is refreshing—best fitness at 58, faster times through consistency, and zero interest in shrinking goals.
If you need a shove to recommit or a template to rebuild, this conversation delivers practical, repeatable ideas: build a route you can start daily, align training with your event, keep the work simple, and let consistency do the heavy lifting. Listen, then tell us the one habit you’ll change this week. Subscribe, share with a training partner, and leave a review to help others find the show.
Thanks for listening to Running With Problems. Follow us on Instagram @runningwithproblems. DM us there with questions in text or audio messages! Or email us at podcast@runningwithproblems.run.
Hosted by Jon Eisen (@mildly_athletic) and Miranda Williamson (@peaksandjustice). Edited by Jon Eisen. Theme music by Matt Beer.
Hello and welcome to Running with Problems. My name is John Eisen.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm Miranda Williamson.
SPEAKER_02:Running with Problems is a podcast about runners, their lives, the problems they inevitably face. Miranda, that was a very emotional and boisterous intro you just gave.
SPEAKER_00:We just recorded a podcast that I really enjoyed. I enjoyed the episode. I enjoyed the guests. It was energetic. Spoiler alert. But that's not what we're releasing today. No, no, no, no. But I'm bringing that energy along with me.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. Today on the podcast, we have John Castle, runner from Pennsylvania. But before we get to that, Miranda, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_00:I'm doing well. I'm coming back from this flu that um if all the people who've listened to the Mark Mars and episode that we dropped a couple weeks ago have commented on how horrible I sounded.
SPEAKER_01:You did say we waited until your voice was doing well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that was me on the uphill.
SPEAKER_01:That was a good voice. That was a good voice.
SPEAKER_00:But I'm coming back. Um I ran Gold Hill this weekend.
SPEAKER_02:Ah, the Gold Hill run, as uh David Roach calls it, the the run of champions.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, epic 22-mile run, 11 miles uphill to the general store and 11 miles downhill. Beautiful loop. But uh enough about me. You finished your skyline project this weekend.
SPEAKER_02:I finished my what I I guess uh I kept calling it the Skyline Project all year, but uh to encapsulate what it is, it is a monthly grid in a calendar year of the Boulder Trail Boulder Skyline Traverse. Ah, there. It's a mouthful, got it all out. So I ran the Skyline every month of the year. And it hilariously, or coincidentally, I'm not sure, at the end of my Skyline, I passed a group of ladies who were doing the Skyline and I handed them my Skyline stickers, like uh creeper who carries stickers uh that I do.
SPEAKER_00:He carries stickers that um has a skyline traversed, and I have one on my fridge that I I received from him before we were even dating.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because I was doing a skyline and you were doing it in the opposite direction.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and we ran into each other and he gave me a sticker.
SPEAKER_02:One of the classic love stories of the world. Uh I printed the stickers five years ago in 2020 to motivate my friends to get out and run. It was 2020. You gotta motivate somehow, and I created this thing called the Boulder Skyline Traverse Challenge to run the Skyline in the fall uh of 2020, and I would give people stickers if they ran it and donated ten dollars to a local trail charity. Uh, and so I still had a bunch of stickers, so now I just carry them with me. Anyway, so I ran into these ladies and I gave them stickers, and one of them told me that they were trying to complete the skyline every month of the year, and they had started in July, and I was like, oh whoa! I just finished that. Like, I well, I hadn't finished it at the time. I was still one mountain shy of finishing, but it was really cool to meet somebody else trying to do the same project. So, Katie, if you're out there, go get it done. You she's got six more months.
SPEAKER_00:Did you tell her to listen to the pod?
SPEAKER_02:I have not. I did not, no. But you know, maybe she'll just intuit it through the you know, through the world, right? Maybe I was transmitting podcast energy for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Great.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, I'm really proud of myself getting the project done.
SPEAKER_00:I'm proud of you too.
SPEAKER_02:I'm glad I did get it done. I think monthly projects or any grid project just really challenges you to be able to get out consistently. And I that's always been a challenge for me. Like I I like going out when I feel good and I like staying in when I feel bad, but trying to get out every month of the year when I had all these uh races to run this year in the months that I didn't like, like the whole reason for the project came about when I looked at I looked at all my skylines and I realized I had never run one in July. And I was like, oh, I should run one in July, and then I'll have run one in every month. And I was like, well, why not just run one every month? Previously to this, two years in my past, I forget which years, I have I have hit 11 skylines. But I've never made it to 12 until this year. It's always been a goal of mine for some weird reason, and I'm just happy I got it done. Um, yeah, so now I never have to run it every month of a year ever again. Uh that's good. I I may have like overstayed my welcome a little bit. I posted a reel on Instagram. Uh check it out if you want to see a reel of skyline photos. And uh I realized that like I have so few photos from the summer because I was dying the whole time on every summer skyline. June, uh July, August, September. There there are like no photos from those because I was just I I don't do well in the heat, and I wasn't taking a lot of photos when I'm dying. So anyway, super glad I got that done. Uh and yeah, I guess who's on the podcast this week? John Castle. I met John Castle. He was asking me about some uh some Barclay information and we got start, we got chatting, and he was an introduction from a friend of ours. Yeah, he runs obstacle course races. Uh he lives in uh he live actually lives in a place that my uh Uncle Jeff, uh the Jeff we always talk about on this podcast because he listens to the podcast. Hi, Jeff. Uh Jeff used to live in near Altuno. I'm forgetting the name of the town we talk about in the episode. Oh God.
SPEAKER_00:I'm don't look to me. I'm not sure. All right.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you you all will just have to wait into the episode to hear about the town.
SPEAKER_00:This this intro is unhinged so far.
SPEAKER_02:They're all unhinged. That's what our it's what our listeners like. I want you all to write in and tell Miranda that you enjoy the unhinged intros.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, so John Castle's a bit of a different episode for us. Um he's not really integrated into the running community like a lot of our guests are. He's so he's a little bit outside of the running community. I think he really enjoyed talking about his um unique experiences with running with us, though.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean coming into running late in life and performing at a high level for his age in obstacle course racing and going and go into the hardest things possible. That's kind of John Castle's style. So it was it was interesting to get that perspective on running. Like he clearly gets a lot of motivation out of the consistency of training and the competitiveness of racing.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. He's not uh he likes to do like for training runs the same thing every day. So it's a little different than like going on these big adventures like some of the guests we normally talk to. But it's about that consistency and that routine that really drives him forward.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I hope you guys enjoy it. And uh send us some feedback to podcast at runningwithproblems.run or at running with problems on Instagram. And we'll see you next time without further ado. Enjoy John Castle, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_04:I'm glad to join you. It's an honor.
SPEAKER_00:Is this your first first podcast you've ever been on, John?
SPEAKER_04:Uh no, I've done a I've done a couple of them, but they were at a local gym when I was going and basically did a rate rate in in uh it wasn't by phone from a from a distance, it was uh the the to the the two donors. I was sitting there right there in the same room with them.
SPEAKER_02:We love that's our preferred way to do podcasts. We we like having everyone around the table.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but you are where are you located right now?
SPEAKER_04:Um I'm in Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania. That's where my office is.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-oh.
SPEAKER_02:Did our sound cut out?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Again. Can you hear us? Oh, it's it's just the sorry. Hold on one sec. It should come back. Is it back?
SPEAKER_04:I hear you.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry about that.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:This this USB cable is a little finicky. Okay. Let's uh let's jump back in. So where are you from? Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania. You know, my uncle Jeff, who I visited many times uh when he lived there, uh, he's a big fan of the podcast, so he's definitely gonna hear this. He actually lived in Holidaysburg, and I've been there a few times for Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. What's his name?
SPEAKER_02:Uh Jeff Eisen.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:He was that he was the athletic director. Uh was it is it St. Mary's? Is that the school around there? St.
SPEAKER_04:This is St. Mary's, it's a Catholic school.
SPEAKER_02:The Catholic University, yep. So he was the athletic director.
unknown:St.
SPEAKER_02:Francis.
SPEAKER_04:St. Francis would be the university.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:That's up the mountain a little bit from here, maybe 20, 30 miles from here. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what he was doing up there. So I've been to Altona area.
SPEAKER_04:Actually, I'm originally from Altoona. I grew up in Altoona, lived there until I was lived there till I was 25, and uh I've been in Holidaysburg ever since.
SPEAKER_02:Holidaysburg's very cute.
SPEAKER_04:It's a small town, yeah. And I'm I'm actually my office, I'm in my office, it's right on right in town in the old uh Allegheny Street, which is right in the middle of the town. Right, right uh historic. A lot of historic uh buildings here along Allegheny Street, but that's where I'm at.
SPEAKER_02:And did you've been there for a while? Were you living in Holidaysburg when you got into running or obstacle course racing?
SPEAKER_04:Uh yeah, I was because I the house I'm in right now, this next year in 20 in 2026, it'll be 31 years that I've been there. I built it when I was 28 years old.
SPEAKER_02:You built the house you're living in?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah, built. It's the second house. I built the house before that too. I mean, that's what I've done my whole life. So yeah, I've been there for 30 31 years. So it'll be 31 years next uh uh uh next April, May. So yeah, I've been in Holidaysburg that long, so from out tuna to there a bit.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. And what is what is hot for the listeners who don't know the um geography of central or southwestern Pennsylvania, what is what is Holidaysburg like? Is it in the mountains? Is it rolling hills? Uh is it all right?
SPEAKER_04:It's in the mountains. We're not real high elevation. I mean, my house is at 1,750 feet of elevation. Um I live at the at the very end of a street in a development where there's just uh oddly enough, paddy corner from the house, there's a an access road that takes you clear to the very top of the mountain where the there's radio towers up there. And that's my that's my hill. I run it every single day. It's about 900 feet of elevation difference, 2650 at the top, 1750 where I live. So the highest point of of Blair County, which is where Haldingsburg is, is uh 2650 where I run to the top every every morning.
SPEAKER_02:It's awesome to live right next to the trail, right?
SPEAKER_04:Come out the front door and 100 feet. I'm starting I'm right up the right up the road, so I don't have to go anywhere. And it's uh and I've got my own kind of few obstacles set up. I've got uh pull-up bars, I've got ropes hanging from trees, I got boulders in different areas where I'll pick them up, I'll carry them for a half mile, drop them, keep running, stop to do 50 burpees here or there. But it's it's great training for for the sport that I do.
SPEAKER_02:So, yeah, so we we should talk about that. You're into obstacle course racing. Yes. So this is typically like a short course that you do many loops of that have obstacles along the way. Is that correct? Is that a good description?
SPEAKER_04:Well, that's just one of them is uh the world's toughest mutter. That's tough mutters world championship, which is a short, I say a short course. It's a five-mile course, 20 obstacles, and it's a it's a 24-hour race. Basically you got 24 hours to complete the course as many times as you can. I do that once a year. I started doing that four years ago. Uh, but primarily my sport is Spartan racing, which they have several different uh course, different lengths there. They have a sprint, which is a 5K, they have a super is a 10K, uh, Beast, which is a 21K, and an Ultra, which is my favorite, which is a 50K. Um, they they range from from 20 obstacles in a sprint to 70 obstacles, 65 to 70 in a in a an ultra is what it is. So several different lengths.
SPEAKER_00:So you're our second ever obstacle course racer on the pod. And um one of the other guests, she was saying that her favorite part of obstacle course racing was the running. Do you have a favorite part?
SPEAKER_04:I love the running. That's why, yeah. I I just uh there's a lot of a lot of a lot of athletes in my age that kind of get to this point, their late 50s, and they they transfer to like I guess the hybrid sports like DECA and high rocks and that stuff, which is more it's far less running and more kind of uh carrying things. Yeah, carrying things, different, different things, yeah, yeah. Uh and far less running, more like CrossFit kind of stuff. And that's just not my thing. I I have no desire to ever do that. I'll be doing obstacle course racing uh till I take my last breath. I mean, I have no desire to switch the hybrid. They say it's easier on the body than all the running. I say if you do enough running, uh the running will take care of itself. I if I don't go running, I feel like my body's gonna gonna gonna start to fade away. So I I have to run every single day. I just feel like um the the running portion of it, keep staying active. Obviously, our bodies were made to move. And I've and I've I've transferred to gym activity one day and running the next day, basically every other day, four and a half years ago, to basically all running and body weight exercise. I haven't touched a barbell in four and a half years. I have no desire to ever ever step foot in a gym.
SPEAKER_00:I know. Uh uh we share that in common. And now another thing you think we share in common is you got into running later in life, right?
SPEAKER_04:I actually did running in high school. When I was in high school, I did running, a little running, uh, ran the Harrisburg Marathon in in um 1983. I would have been 16 years old then when I did it. Uh, shortly after I started developing knee problems, went to several doctors. Um they couldn't figure out what was what was wrong with it. They tried a few things, orthotics, this, that, whatever. But it that was just primarily road running. That's all it was. Um, no kind of obstacle, obviously obstacle course racing wasn't even even going on then. But anyhow, once I got out of high school, started in the field of construction, what I did, I've tried to get back into running a few times, and it just uh my knees would bother me. Um, never could really get into it until uh until started with uh at 49 years old.
SPEAKER_02:Um what inspired you to do that?
SPEAKER_04:I I was at a it's it's it's a it's a crazy story. I was at a a get together with a large group, and there was a photo, this was in 2016, so it'll be 10 years this come this May. There was a group photo taken, and I was on the end and it was posted on Facebook, on social media, you know, and it just when I saw the picture, it just it hit me in a in a in an odd way. It was it was like I was 185 pounds, I was 45 pounds heavier than I as I I was this was what 30 years plus of working in construction, terrible diet, soda, candy bars, pizza, fast food, whatever, you know, always on the run. It was nothing for me to go home at 10 o'clock at night, eat three bowls of Captain Crunch and a Mountain Dew and fall asleep and do it all over the next day. I had a horrendous diet. I was borderline diabetic, and the picture just was a wake-up call to me say, John, look, you need to do something. You're full, you're gonna be 49 years old in three months, or you're gonna you're headed down the road of poor health, and it'll be no return at some point. So I started going to gym. It was tough for the first three, four, five months, whatever it was, but you know, to try to get into a rhythm. You know, everybody's gangbusters the first two weeks. It's like January 1st, everybody has a New Year's resolution. They, you know, two with the first two weeks of every year is the busiest any gym is, and then it just dies. A lot of people don't do it. But the but the real deal breaker was this picture, go back to this picture that was posted. You know, I I thought, you know, well, maybe it's just the light, maybe it was the angle, maybe it was, you know, and I kind of brushes it off until Monday morning I show up at a job site. An employee of mine that's been with me for 20 years walks straight up to me without who's friends with me on Facebook, would have seen a picture without saying any other words, walks right up to me, puts his hand on my stomach, and says, You're looking a little shubby these days, boss. You know, and it was just like, you know what? It it wasn't just very good communication.
SPEAKER_00:Somebody shaming there.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, somebody shaming. But anyhow, it was it was a wake-up call for me. So that got me started into my fitness journey in 2016. You know, I couldn't, I it took me nine months to do one pull-up on my own. It it it it was a struggle to run more than a hundred yards without stopping huffling, you know, but it but I pushed through, I changed my diet completely. I haven't had a soda. I used I would drink eight, ten cans of soda a day without an ounce of water back in the summertime, working in the summer, you know, well, you know, whatever it's easy, sweet tea, all that kind of stuff. So it really, this picture which I've I've shared this picture many times in the Facebook post to say this this was a true wake-up call for me. You know, I could see I I look at pictures of me 30 years ago and now, and it's like I felt terrible. I'm always tired, whatever. So uh the picture was was was the change. I went to a gym, started training. A year later, after gym, I was uh there was a local ski resort in Seven Springs, south of Pittsburgh, that had an obstacle court, generic version, their own thing. I tried it. There was about 25 of us that did it from the group from the gym. The weather was horrendous. It was terrible, it was 40s, raining, miserable. Like it was the worst weather conditions you could do that. It was the first time in it, seven and a half miles, up and down the ski slopes, in the mud, whatever. It was miserable. You know, the the 25 people there, including myself, 24, said they'd never do it again. I said, I said to myself, that was pretty cool. I'm gonna do it again. You know, I was the only one. So so basically that that was the first obstacle course race I did a year after joining a gym and changed, completely changing my diet and trained for it, got into you know running. I still did basically rogue running and back and forth from gym to that.
SPEAKER_02:Now, when you started your fitness journey, like you're very motivated by this uh this image of your body. Has that motivation shifted over time? Or are you motivated just as much now by that photo as you were eight years ago? Or it has it shifted to be some other kind of motivation?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's just once, and then I'm I'm I'm always up for a challenge. I love to be challenged. Like, yeah, so you know, once I meet that a challenge that I had, you know, and now it's like, okay, what's the next challenge? You know, I so the motivation is just, you know, the next challenge. What, what, what's the next thing? So raise the bar and I and I do something, something else. You know, I keep keep keep going. And once I achieve something, I'm not that I'm not happy with saying, okay, I'm done, I'm good, I'm I'm satisfied with that. Now I'm like, okay, we're where's the what's the next thing I'm looking for? You know, so I I continue to raise the bar in everything I do. Um, I mean, it's obviously my whole OCR career. Yes, we can we can continue, we continue to talk about that, but it but that race at that local ski resort started with there. Um later that year, a good friend of mine, Jim, had done a Spartan race in Palmerton, Pennsylvania, which I wasn't there. There was another one in Ohio, and she says, if you like that that race in Seven Springs, you'll love Spartan. It's a it's an organized, uh, much more organized. You know, it's it's it's just uh it's it's just it's it's you you'll love it if you if if that's the kind of one you do. So I tried a Spartan sprint, and that was my first one in October of 2017, about 15 months after I started my fitness journey. And that was uh that was uh that was all hooked on, you know, the 2,000 competitors or so in that race, and I finished 20th overall in my first ever Spartan race. Uh so it was uh it was a big motivator for me, you know. Like I said, I've worked my whole life in construction. When I say worked, I worked actively on a job. I climbed roofs, I climbed trusses. So I'm no stranger to hanging from certain things, but the mixing is to get the running back in. But what was the real, the real change point from running to me was adding in strength training. It wasn't just about running. Once I started doing squats, different things to kind of strengthen muscles around the knees, it seemed like the knee pain that I was experiencing 30 years ago that got the doctors couldn't figure out what was going on was was was relieved by doing other exercises. I mean, I started with obviously weight training at a gym with body weight, which is now transferred into all bodyweight exercises, but I do squats every other day by the hundreds, you know. And even when I was going to a gym, I always felt that doing more reps with less weight was more beneficial to me and not just trying to build up to a one rep max and stuff to hurt yourself. I'm not, and I'm 145 pounds, 5'4, so I'm not a bodybuilding type, the powerlifting type. So I always felt the less weight, and then I eventually transferred into all body weight exercises and no weight training at all and doing more reps and that right there, just uh just different types of squats, strengthening the knees, uh basically did away with the knee pain that I was having.
SPEAKER_00:Do you have a coach or is this something you've just played with and learned on your own?
SPEAKER_04:I started with a personal trainer because obviously I had that 49 was the first time I ever stepped foot into a gym ever in my life. So that was the first time after the picture. So I never, I never did any kind of, I just a little bit of running in high school, like I said, and then it just kind of faded away for 30 years uh until uh till this picture said you need to do something else and not just running. And it was more it was all about the diet. But anyhow, when I started, I knew nothing about any of it. So I had a personal trainer for a few years. But you know, once you once you get into it, you know what worked for you, what doesn't. I don't, I just decided I didn't need somebody to tell me what to do. Um, so I kind of did my own stuff at the gym. And um uh four and a half years ago, I got to the point where I felt like I wasn't gonna go any further into sport with uh with the gym training, with the running. So I started, you know, I'm looking into the top athletes in the sport. I mean, how how do these how do these athletes train for these race days? What do they do? Primarily, I say it all the time, is uh Ryan Atkins. He's a um, you ever heard the name, Ryan Atkins from Canada? He's he's the top guy in OCR, the most recognized guy. I started looking into what he does, and he never steps foot in a gym. So I said, you know what, I'm gonna, I quit the gym, cold turkey, four and a half years ago. I do nothing but bodyweight stuff, running, climbing. He does climbing, and uh since then it's been uh it's it's just I I I I I feel like there's no end.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think the body weight work would be very applicable to OCR. I mean, first of all, you're you're training to do a ton of reps, right? On right stage, you do a lot of reps. Yeah, if you're doing this ultra, you're doing 70 of these obstacles. Each one of these obstacles could you know, it could be four or five reps of the same thing, or or like a long carry of a heavy long carry, right? So I could see why that's like super applicable. Um in addition, I love this well. Do you think it's like just more applicable to the sport, or do you think it's like overall healthier for you? I guess is the question. What's that? Just body weight, bodyweight work.
SPEAKER_04:I I think it's more beneficial to you. Bodyweight work for sure. More reps, bodyweight work, less chance of getting injured, first of all. You know, and a lot and a lot of the obstacles in this sport are are hanging obstacles, and I don't want to, I don't want to carry extra weight across there being big and bulky. You know, when I look at these top guys, they're not they're not monster like big guys, big bulky guys. You know, they just look like average runners, but they have a lot of grip strength, that kind of stuff. So I transferred it to not only body weight stuff, but I do it, I I race like it's race day where I'll run a half mile, I'll stop and I'll do 30 burpees. I'll run another half mile, pick up a 50-pound rock and carry for a quarter mile, drop it and keep running. So I don't do I don't do long 10, 15, 20 mile runs at all at all. I don't run more than a mile or two without stopping and doing some sort of body weight exercise.
SPEAKER_02:Do you do you have like rocks like on your mountain that you know? Like that's a heavy rock when you carry that one?
SPEAKER_04:I pick it up and I'll carry it and drop it and continue on. And I if I come back down, I'll pick it up and carry it back down. But I got yeah, where I'm at, the mountains where I'm at is there's a lot of surface rocks everywhere. So not only is it is it is it mountainous, but it's just a lot of loose rocks here, there. So I I I use that to my benefit also. We have sandbag carries, bucket carries in the sport of of uh OCR. So uh that plays in the beneficial if uh as far as what I do as well. So it's it's just everything. I mean, it it really goes back to I spent six months in the first first six months of 21, which was my last year in the 55, 50, 54 bracket, um, researching how these top athletes trained for it. And again, it was Brian Atkins. And as I made a in the middle of 2021, I made a complete switch, canceled the gym membership, haven't stepped foot in the gym in four and a half years, and I've I feel like I've made tremendous progress in the sport.
SPEAKER_02:Well and where has that led you? Like, where are you at now? Like what are you racing every year? What drives you to uh keep going?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'm I'm in South Carolina this weekend for the ultra effect weekend. I'll have a 50K uh ultra on Saturday, which is an obstacle, it's it's um 31 mile race on Saturday, and then Sunday I'll have a super, which is the 10K also. It's when Spartan handle has back-to-back weekends, uh back-to-back days, yeah. When Spartan does this, uh because of the tremendous cost to set up a course, you know, it's not like you're setting up a uh a 10 or 15 mile course with a couple ribbons and cones along the streets, you know. When you come in to set up an obstacle course, you know, race, you get you got there's a lot of work involved with all the obstacle setting up. You get, you know, and you're especially you're in the some of these mountain courses where you have limited access. So they gotta they got a crew that come in weeks before to set all this up and they've got to tear it all down. So to try to make it more more uh practical cost-wise, that Spartan will offer two or three different or four different lengths of races to attract as many people to off, you know, to try to cover the cost for. They don't just have like an ultra on a Saturday and then at the you know, halfway through the day, everybody's done and they they walk away and that's it. So they they have the shorter versions to bring other people to obviously uh they need the the the revenue to to offset the the high cost of setting that kind of stuff up.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, that's a common tactic in like in just the standard uh ultras as well. Like you'll have oh, they'll do like a 25k and a 50k and a 50 miler and a hundred K, like all in the same area, leveraging the same aid stations. Yeah. So that's uh so they do something pretty similar for Spartan.
SPEAKER_04:They do sim pretty similar. I mean, it starts with the the Beast course, which is a 13.1 mile. That's the longest course they'll lay out, you know, and then they have the shorter versions, which is a 10k and the 5k. The beast is a 21k, 13.1 mile. But the the two shorter versions utilize a portion of the same course, it's not its own course. And then with the ultra, which is a 50K, they utilize the beast course, and basically you have to do it twice, plus they add another five-mile loop in there, uh, just for as far as the ultra to get it. So they don't they don't lay out a whole 31 mile course along the way. And that's for all the obstacles, because you're doing all the obstacles twice, you're doing the obstacles in the in 21k uh Spartan race two times, plus a couple and a little extra loop in there to get you to the 50k to 31 miles.
SPEAKER_02:Nice. So when you're running these these ultra OCR Spartan races, is are you going hard the whole time? Like 50k plus uh plus obstacles has gotta take, you know, a few at least a few hours.
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean they uh where do you where do you try to keep your heart rate? Where do you try to keep your effort level?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, my heart rate, uh the maximum heart rate was with me at this point is about 155. When I say maximum, I mean that's that's when I get it to 155, I'm really pushing hard. So I don't have a 170, 180 heart rate. Uh, I think it's from the continu from the training of of a lot of the cardio do us. It's uh my maximum heart rate is not is not extremely high, I want to say.
SPEAKER_02:It does go down over time, right? And you aren't a somewhat older athlete.
SPEAKER_04:So you increase your cardio, your VO2 obviously goes up. I have a VO2 that's in the low 50s, which is tremendously high, good for a 58-year-old.
SPEAKER_02:That's a very good VO2 max.
SPEAKER_04:I have a 51, 52 VO2 max. And and just my normal running is about a 130 heart rate. My like like when my training is, it usually is about there. It may uh on some of the real steep climbs, you know, if I'm really I'm really pushing hard. You know, uh but with a with the with an ultra, I'm not pushing it 100% the entire time. I gotta pace myself a little bit for the first, you know, the first lap in in there. And it and there's a transition. I I go back to uh two courses. The ultra in a Spartan is is two laps. Uh after the first lap, you don't cross the finish line, you come into what's called a transition area where basically you can rehydrate, refuel, whatever you want to do, and then you then you come back out again. So you actually have a uh your own basically age station, I guess, that you put stuff in it prior to the race. You skip the finish line coming around on the first 13-mile race, and you still actually go around the finish line into a transition area and back on the course again uh to continue on uh for the full thing. So you have your kind of your own aid station area. So uh probably more than likely the first lap is it's not pushed hard, but at that point you'll know if you what you have in that day, you know, every any given day. Some days you feel you have it, some days you don't. It's just the way this for it is, you're not gonna be 120% every day the whole time. But but but I've done it enough now that I've I have a good idea what works for me, what pre-race uh nutrition uh what what hasn't worked?
SPEAKER_02:I think that's an interesting question. Like, what did what have you experienced that like didn't go well and how'd you fix it? With nutrition or or strategy?
SPEAKER_04:Uh I've I've found it that um I'm trying to think uh you know, the whole car bloating thing for some reason has never worked out for me. The whole thing where people people running long races say, well, I'm gonna eat spaghetti every night for the next week, that doesn't do anything for me. I think that's just a whole I think that's a mindset thing. So that that doesn't work for me. Um I I've tried different different supplements, some that work, some that some that don't. Uh beet juice, I've that's really worked for me.
SPEAKER_02:Uh if you hear that's one course or just daily?
SPEAKER_04:Daily. I take it, I take it daily, yes. Before I go running every day on a daily basis, I I take uh beet juice, which is which helps with dilating your blood vessels, which uh get better at distribution of oxygen for cardio uh over over time. So that works. Um I guess the biggest thing is car bloating has never worked for me. Maybe it works for other people, but it's never been a it's never been a thing for me where I try car bloating. I feel like I could go. There's there's just some days I feel like I I could run. Some mornings I go out and I feel like I could run for two days straight without stopping. There's other mornings I just I feel I feel like uh I have to push to do three or four miles. But you know, at the end of the day, that's what makes you or breaks you. You can't just go on your best day. Your best, best, biggest gains are gained on the days you feel the least uh likely to run. You know, you have to push yourself through it. I found consistency is the biggest thing running every single day. I I change the lengths every day. I don't obviously I don't run, I run shorter runs, I run longer, but at the end of the day, I I get running shoes on. I run at least four or five miles every single day. And it's it's technical, it's a technical road. It's a thousand feet of elevation gain in the first two miles. It's all uphill, right from the house clear to the top. Uh uh, and and doing it every single day. And there's a lot of there's a lot of mornings I get up and I say, you know, is it gonna hurt if you skip a day? Yeah, it's gonna hurt. Put the running shoes on and get the hell out the door.
SPEAKER_00:Now, John, you seem to be getting better as you age. What is your relationship to aging?
SPEAKER_04:Um I always say age is just a number. Don't let age ever stop you. You know, 58 years old, and I I feel I'm the best shape of my life at this point. Even when I was in high school, I'm much better shape. Uh it could down to diet as well and staying consistent with your with your exercise. So I don't let I don't let my age ever stop me. I it never bothers me. And I mean, I I I don't see me stopping at this point. I I've set many PRs this year, which you know, I've been in the sport for for eight years, and I'm I'm I'm running some of the fastest races I've ever run this year so far. So obviously I'm doing something right.
SPEAKER_03:I'm staying consistent.
SPEAKER_04:And I'm staying consistent. That's that is I tell everybody I'm staying consistent, having the right mindset. That's that's the key. Consistency is the key, and that's Ryan Atkins pushed that when I read about him. He stays consistent. He's always he's and he's always outdoors doing something. I will I watched him on a in a in a training episode where he's either rock climbing, he's climbing ice. He lives in Canada, but one training run at a ski resort in Canada, he carries the skis to the top, no ski lift, and it skis back down. That's his training is he climbs to the top and two feet of snow with skis comes back down. And we occasionally we'll get snow, and I'll go running where it's it's a foot and a half, two feet deep up the same road I do every day. And it's it's high knees. It's a different type of, you know, different type of running, but it's but it's it's it's hard exercise. Yeah. Snow running. So I'm not it, I'm not a fair weather runner as what as well either. Uh yesterday morning in Pennsylvania, temperature was in the in the upper in the mid-20s with 30 to 40 mile an hour winds at the top of the mountain. The windshield was probably 10 to 15 below zero with the windshield. You know, and it's and it's just put it, put, put your layers on, do what you have to do. But uh I I never I never let the weather stop me. I don't care if it's torrential rain, if it's thunder, lightning, whatever it is. There's there's nothing that stopped me. I run every day. I do 100 burpees every single day at the top of the mountain as part of the workout.
SPEAKER_02:That is that that's impressive. I think the consistency is so important.
SPEAKER_04:Um consistency is the game changer. That that's where it is.
SPEAKER_02:Podcasting and in running.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. Staying consistent with your with your workout. You know, and I have a lot of I do 30 to 40 Spartan races. Last year I did uh I had 16 trifects. I did 50 Spartan races alone last year. Uh and and last year, a little bit less this year.
SPEAKER_02:Do you think that's too much? No. Or no or just rain. It's right.
SPEAKER_00:Are you motivated by having the competition in front of you?
SPEAKER_04:I am motivated. I'm very competitive. I'm I'm motivated. I mean, I'm I'm not one of those guys that show up and I hope there's no competition so I can be the guy at first place in a podium. I want guys to be chasing me. I want guys bringing down my neck and pushing me. That's what brings out the PRs in you. I didn't, I I I've never shied away from competition. I'd rather go to if I had a choice of two races and one race is gonna have few competitors, another one's gonna have the top competitors, I'd be going to the top breaks because that's what's gonna, that's what's gonna bring out the best in you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So you mentioned mindset uh when you were saying like how we when you're talking about how your uh your message is. Your relationship to aging is. Yes. What what is your mindset?
SPEAKER_04:My mindset is is unbreakable. I have an unbreakable mindset, which is a Spartan uh slogan all the time. So I just I've I've rarely been injured, knock on wood. I've never had a DNF in anything I've ever done. Uh no matter what it is, uh the the 24-hour world's toughest mutter, the Spartan World Championship was 24-hour race. I've never had a DNF. Even in Spartan Ultra, I would, I would crawl to the finish line before I would uh call it a DNF on my hands and knees. I just I just have a I have a uh a strong mindset, you know. And I have people come to me and say, you know, I'm thinking about doing, I've done a Spartan race, I've done a shorter ones, I'm thinking about doing an ultra. How do you train for that? And I said, train your mind. You walk up to that start line, don't doubt yourself. You doubt yourself, you're gonna be in trouble before you even cross that start line. I don't do anything more, my longest run, seriously, is is less than 10 to 12 miles once a week, maybe. That's it. And I and I'll go and run 30, 35 miles in a race on Saturday. But I don't do anything more than I say, I say maybe it's the age, but I save the miles for race day, is what I say. I bring the mindset, save the miles for race race day, and bring the mindset.
SPEAKER_02:We literally just spoke to uh uh one of the most elite athletes in ultrarunning yesterday, and she follows a very similar plan of like a lot of smaller runs.
SPEAKER_04:Smaller runs on the week.
SPEAKER_02:Before, and then on race day, you know, throwing down.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I used to, you know, five, six years ago, I would I would run leading up to it, I would run a 20, 25 mile run, you know, uh on a weekend, maybe for two or three weekends leading up to an ultra. Now, for the last four, four and a half years, I haven't run more than 10 or 12 miles at any given time. And it's broken up. It's not a continuous, it's broken up. So I treat it like bracing. It's broken up with some body weight calisthetics, you know, along the way. Burpee's. Here, pull up, nose to bar, uh, rope climbs. I have a rope. Actually, I have a rope hanging from a tree to top of the mountain that I do like a typical rope climb. I'll do rope climbs. I have a wood's full that I'll do box jumps. Uh, that like a big wood's full like the power company has cable on it when you see them on the back of the power companies. I have that in the woods at different areas that I use uh for box jumps. Basically, increase my vertical leads.
SPEAKER_00:You know, do you have any training partners that you do this with buddies?
SPEAKER_04:People come to me and say, I'd like to go running with you. I said, Don't take it offensively, but I won't do it with anybody else but myself. I'll show you what I'll gladly take you and show you where I go, but I'm not running with you.
SPEAKER_02:I just tell people we'll do it, we'll do it sometime, and then it never happens.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's a standard. I I'm focused on what I'm doing. I don't want to be feel like I have to have a conversation the whole time when you're with them too. I just I I I prefer to do it by myself. I I know some days, you know, I feel stronger. I want to run faster. I don't want to be running at your pace or whatever. I want to be able to do at my own pace what I feel like what I do. And I and I sometimes a lot of times my workout, I'll I'll walk out the door and say, I'm gonna do this, this, and this, and and I've I've changed it part way through the workout and just say, you know, I feel like doing this, you know, and I don't want to have somebody beside me and and have to say do this or do that. I mean, it's not don't take it offensively. I'll talk to you all you want, I'll show you where I go. I'll I'll I'll walk you up the top of the hill and show you everything I do, but I'm not gonna go running with you.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, yeah. So uh you haven't DNF'd anything yet, no? No. So I'm I'm very experienced with DNFs. I I DNF'd many times and had to overcome the DNF sort of bug, if you will, the uh the quits as one might so I'm wondering what like you you said you never DNF'd and and you do you're unbreakable, right? What was the closest you ever came to breaking?
SPEAKER_04:What was the closest I ever came? My first year doing uh doing racing, I did a what's called a terrain race. I don't even know if they're even business. It's a it's an obstacle course race. It was in Jacksonville, Florida. It was actually my second, it was 2018, and it was a 10 mile, it was two five mile laps. On the first lap, uh it was an obstacle where we had to swing from rope to rope. Well, I I swung the wrong way. I twisted a finger and got a spiral fracture in in the finger. Had it extra, had to put surgery and put three screws in it. But I I basically the adrenaline kicked and I I did a second lap. The same obstacle began with a broken finger. It never never stopped me. You know, two days later it was swelled up, it was it was swelled up to about two times the size until I finally went to a doctor to have a check. But but it was it was it was uh it was hurting pretty good. I I knew I did something that wasn't good, but I I just I wasn't gonna let it stop me, you know. And that was that was only two years into the sport, my second year into the sport. So uh beyond that, um I could say the Barkley Fall Classic this year because it was the tough in the 10 years that they had. I've the 10 year history, I've only done it the last two years, but this 2025 year, there was only 20 finishers of the 406 that started. So it was a it was less than a five percent that finished the full course.
SPEAKER_02:Only 20?
SPEAKER_04:Only 20 finished it.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_04:I was I was I was on uh on the uh I'm sure if you're familiar with how it works. Basically, there's a 26 mile course that's laid out.
SPEAKER_02:It's not 26 miles, they just call it a marathon.
SPEAKER_04:They call it a marathon, actually. They call so um just for just for reference point. Well, the the 50k is not 31 either, but you can't. No, it's more like 40. Yes, it was more like 40. But anyhow, it would it was tough. We had to do the the rat shaw climb twice, but basically come to the decision point, the decision point there, which was right at the bottom of Ratshaw, whether you're gonna you're gonna go to and call it a marathon finish, which like you said, it was more than that, or you're gonna keep going. And I I was a little pushed for time, I thought it was gonna be because I had to do do rat shawl, few other climbs of that whole thing. But I coming back down through the woods in Rat Shaw, I got off the course and I was I got off the course and put an extra two miles on it. And and I was pushing for time, and I was a little worried I was gonna I was gonna find my way back to where I was at. I mean, that's that's a that that's uh that's an eerie feeling when you're when you find yourself off the course and have to find your way back on and knowing that time the time is running at this point. Uh those are those are three miles.
SPEAKER_02:You didn't have to pay for them to five miles.
SPEAKER_04:I didn't have to pay for them, but I put an extra two miles on, still made it to the finish line with a full Barclay finish, Barclay Fall Classic at that 12 hours and 56 minutes. So I had 23 and a half minutes to spare with an extra two and a half miles, and there was two two plus miles there.
SPEAKER_02:So I was like, Who gives you 1320 to finish? 1320 to finish is exactly right. Just like um Big Barclay, you have 1320 to get a fun run.
SPEAKER_00:Now, rumor has it, you're really looking for your first DNF. You're you're trying to head towards Barclay.
SPEAKER_04:Big Barkley. I'm not look, yeah, I'm not looking for a DNF. Um I'm I I'm I'm looking for a Barclay, but I'm not looking for a DNF.
SPEAKER_02:Um so what uh what attracts you to the to the big the big Barclay?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it was two two years almost two years ago. A friend of mine, a customer of mine, told me three or four years ago, he mentioned the Barclay says, says, you need to try this. And I've never heard of it at that point. And he he told me I never look, you know, looked into it until uh 2024 when Jasmine Paris became the first woman to finish it in 99 seconds under the time, you know, and I looked and I said, okay, maybe I'm gonna maybe I'm gonna look into this. And I know looked into it. And one of the first things I really read into it, the thing that stuck out was uh was a Barclay Fall Classic or two on your resume certainly helped your chances of getting in. So obviously, so I turned my attention to rate two, how do I sign up for the Barclay Fall Classic? I signed up in March, right after, you know, right after that, and I got selected in uh in August for my first, that was last year, uh in 2020-44. And of course, uh I finished it there in about 11 hours, but it wasn't as tough as it was this year. And I and I said, I I I told uh Steve Durbin, who was a race director, and Laz, I said, I'll certainly be back next year, you know, as soon as the registration had opened up, uh, and that's two two or three weeks after it, in 2024 in October. I was probably the first one to sign up for it, but I was probably one of the last ones that got picked, though. I didn't get picked till August. I was getting a little concerned this August, but but nonetheless I got selected.
SPEAKER_02:You know a weird system where they like do like mini lotteries, right? The mini lotteries. As people drop out, they do like another mini lottery over.
SPEAKER_04:And basically I got select elected as people dropped out. I wasn't, even though I was one of the first ones to register, I was one of the last ones to get picked for it. But but the fact that I I I ran it the year before and I completed it basically gave me a better chance. Probably I I probably at some point I should I'm sure I would have if I, you know, I didn't in August, I probably would have um would have gotten selected one way or another. But it was uh it was a little nerve-wracking coming down to that point, like you know, we're here we are in August. And I and am I gonna get picked or not? You know, I didn't know if it was gonna get picked or not. You know, and and this is from from an from a and say from an endurance standpoint for the the the Spartan Killington Ultra is the weekend before. It's the toughest Spartan Ultra in the world. It's the weekend before, which is my favorite race. I've done it four times, never DNF'd it. It has a it has a 30 to 35 percent completion, 65% DNF rate, 31 plus miles, 16,000 feet of elevation gain with 70 obstacles. Um I've never DNF'd that, but I do it the weekend before, do two years in a weekend before, and five days later I drive to Tennessee and do the Barkley Fall Classic, including this year, which was the toughest one yet, and still finish it with an extra two miles on us. So um was there any any point? I was I was a little skeptical I was gonna make it on time, not not the fact that I just couldn't do it. It was it was starting to get a point where am I gonna make it on time at this year's fall classic? But you know, I just I dug deep. I I was the first mile when I got off course was all downhill. And once I just did I I realized coming once you once you get up the the the the rat shaw, you come back down, you you come back down.
SPEAKER_02:You loop down the road, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Down to the A station.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, right at the intersection.
SPEAKER_04:Right at the intersection to A station, and then you turn, you get down what's called the Jeep Road that kind of parallels rat shaw, goes down to Jeep Road.
SPEAKER_02:And then heads towards like testicle spectacle and that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you got to go the whole way down to the road into the prison and then up the right up to Oh, you went all the way down to the prison on the road? No, you well, you went down to a point where it was there was a uh U-turn there, and and it was a little confusing because you because you know you're given a cloth map and look into the cloth map. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The maps are the maps are a joke. Like, because they give you this like stretchy bandana with the map printed on it. Right. You need a little bit more accuracy to print around the room.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't as so I followed the Jeep Road about halfway down. You come off the Jeep Road and you followed the same trail that we came up uh basically. Uh to start the race, come up it. Now the second lap, we had to actually go up big rat. But the first lap, when it started, we went up around Big Rat through the woods and then come out on Rat Shaw and then but coming down basically where I got off course was coming down from the from the aid station there, uh, probably uh uh the better part of a mile basically where Rat Shaw uh stopped and turned into what's called Big Rat, the very bottom section of it there, where we should have kept going down through the woods. And I stayed on the Jeep Trail. I went probably the better part of a mile. At that point, I was running the Jeep Road. I kept going down the Jeep Road, clear down to the state road down there. It just didn't it didn't something was wrong, it didn't feel right. Once I crossed across the state road, it came to a section that had uh mud on it, and I was in 12th position, and there was no footprints, and basically it was like this isn't right. So I made a decision to turn around and run the foot.
SPEAKER_02:It's a good marker looking for footprints.
SPEAKER_04:Sorry, there was no footprints. The mud, the mud was the whole way across the the road, uh five, eight foot wide, you know, the way across the road, and not a single footprint, just side by side, four-wheeler. And that was that was the turning point. I mean, I I wasn't feeling good for probably a quarter mile, half mile before that, but that was really the turning point. I said, I'm John, turn around. This isn't right. And I went back up to the U-turn and and and basically followed the edge of the of uh bit Rat Shaw the rest of the way down and found the trail that we come up.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, the the um people always get lost at BFC because one, the map is nigh unreadable, and two, you know, you're you're including off-trail segments in this, you know, some off-trail, it's mostly on trail, but some off-trail. And then three, the markings are like they put out signs that just have like an arrow. Yeah. No confidence ribbons at all. Just just like, hey, there's a sign with an arrow. And um it's just very easy to miss those arrows. Or like, or they just didn't put one at this intersection because they figured, hey, let's have people get fucked here. Um exactly. Like uh like we actually the year I ran, we we actually went across that highway that you were talking about. You go out out there and you go down testicle spectacle, and you come back and you go down meth lab hill. And if if meth lab hill doesn't make you want to run that place, I'm not sure what will. But uh yeah, and like the whole front group, there's a turn on testicle spectacle to like that you have to just make in the middle of and testicle spectacle is a it's one of these classic ratjaw like parts of Frozen Head where it's just a power line area. Yeah. So there's trees on the right, trees on the left, and there's just bushes where you are. Yes. Rocky and roly all the way down. Anyway, at some point you just have to hang a left. And the whole front group, there was no signage, the whole front group missed it and ran like two miles down this shitty area when I read it.
SPEAKER_04:I guess they messed the turn to the left down to the turnaround.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, but there's a turnaround down there, yep. Well, I mean, not a I don't they haven't used testicle in a while on Big Barclay. These days they do a lot more, well, I don't know, in other areas of the course.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh but uh yeah, do you so Big Barkley is much harder than much harder BFC. I mean, first of all, you have to basically consider that you're doing the same effort you did for BFC. You know, when Laz creates the BFC course, which changes every year, he tries generally to match the amount of burst that he has on the big Barclay in a single loop. Now he does it over many more miles, so it's like more like 40 miles as opposed to on Barclay, you know, they call it 20, but it's really 25.
SPEAKER_04:25, yeah. What I read is more like 25. Where did the Barclays marathon name come from? It's it's basically a 26 more so somewhere above.
SPEAKER_02:So it can be as short as that or longer, but the vertical element is roughly equivalent. And so you have to basically put in that same effort with that same amount of vertical. And if you are able to somehow put together, you know, one of the best marathons you've ever run and accomplish that and under the time limit, your reward for doing such a great job is you get to go out on another one, and then you have to do the same thing, and then your reward is to go out on another one. How do you think your mindset would hold up going out on a second loop overnight on a third loop into your second day, you know, pushing that time boundary that you've you've hit at the world toughest mutter of 24 hours? Like, how do you think your mindset holds up? Getting in, taking that difficulty and that intensity over time.
SPEAKER_04:How do you think it holds up?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't know. How do you think it holds up?
SPEAKER_04:I I I I I give it everything I have. I mean, basically, I just uh I I'm not one to quit. So I just don't uh I don't see me but I I'd have to break my leg for me to stop. I've just I I would crawl to the finish line, you know. Even if to finish the lap, I would, I would crawl, I would crawl to the finish line. So it's just I uh I mean it all comes the mindset, you know, and I I feel I have the mindset to achieve achieve anything. I've I've been to some pretty tough races, pretty tough ultras. I I've done the Morisine Ultra World Championship the last two years, and Morisine France, which is is is a lot of vertical climbing, very technical course in the in this in the French Alps of uh of Morisine, France, which have been there last two Julys for Well what's that what's that race?
SPEAKER_02:I haven't heard of that.
SPEAKER_04:The the Spartan Ultra World Championship, 52 race. It's they've had it, they had it in uh Morzine the last two years. And it was oddly enough, I was in the UK with the world's toughest mutter on the last weekend of June, uh the Saturday into Sunday, uh 24 hours, 75 miles, which we've kind of saved a little bit. And five days later, I went to Morzine and did the Spartans Ultra World Championship, uh, just five days later because it was on a Friday.
SPEAKER_02:Did you have any sleep deprivation issues from like staying up all night?
SPEAKER_04:No.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_04:No.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_02:So when are you gonna do uh when are you gonna do a hundred mile ultra? You gotta use this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I I think a hundred mile ultra would be to me would be easy compared to compared to world's toughest mudder. You know, they're doing 80 or 90 miles because it's it's got 20 obstacles. And when I when I sent my letter to Laz like why I should be selected, I I I put in there the the obstacles, half the obstacles you're in water, some of them you're fully submerged in water. So you're never dry. You're doing, you're running, you're 24 hours of racing and you're always wet. And you know, and overnight temperatures can be in the in the in the 30s, like it was in Alabama four years ago.
SPEAKER_00:That's good Barclay training. Yeah, that's great Barclay training. Sounds like wretched to me. It's awfully great.
SPEAKER_04:It's awfully great. I learned the challenge. I I I I and this year uh I've won it, I've won the age group uh four years in a row. I've done it four times, I've won it every year. I have the record for any 50-year-old by 10 miles. I have 85 miles I did in Florida last year. Nobody's ever gotten past 75 miles. Um, so I've won it, I've won the age group to 55. I've only done it four times and I've won it all four times. So this year it's going back to the UK again where it was last year. Um and I won't be holding back anything for more zine because it'll be uh, as we call it, uh one for the thumb.
SPEAKER_00:Excellent. Well, John, you just seem to be aging up, which is really impressive. I have something to look forward to. Um, I've enjoyed aging thus far, and um I'm gonna keep enjoying it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, don't ever let your age stop you from from from going after after your goals, is what I say. I I've never let it stop me. I look at people I went to high school with and they say, you know, I wish I would have started when I was much younger. I said, I didn't start till I was 49. I was borderline diabetic, I was 45 pounds heavier. I had a horrendous diet. Like I I can't believe I was even still alive with when I look back at what I used to eat on a daily basis and how I functioned. Uh, candy bars all day, sodas, sweet tea, all that stuff. So uh it's never too my my my my thing to say is it's never too late to change to start something new and don't ever let your age hold you back.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you're transitioning into what I wanted to ask you, which is we like to end our podcast and thank our guests by asking them to share a piece of advice to our listeners, a piece of unsolicited advice. And I think you just did, but is there anything you'd like to add to that?
SPEAKER_04:Um the side, just never let your don't ever don't ever let your age hold your back and um never never doubt yourself because uh with the right mindset, you can achieve anything, anything that you things that you never thought were even possible. So it really comes down to mindset.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. That's a great place to leave it. Thank you, John, for uh giving us your time and sharing with the listeners your story. Uh, we wish you luck at uh your future endeavors at the world championships coming up in the and hopefully you get into Barkley one of these years. Uh one of these years, hopefully. I'm also trying. Um thank you to the listeners for making it this far. We'll see you next time.