When the Industry Goes Reel!

In this episode, we delve into cinema on difficult topics and social issues. Be aware that samples of these works and some aspects of our discussion may be triggering for some listeners. Many movies and TV series mirror real‑life circumstances and experiences. When handled deftly, the works often resonate with us or at minimum inform our perspectives about aspects of life or life encounters that are unfamiliar to us. We hope you find our talk on these issues affirming, comforting, and informative. Below, we have compiled a list of hotlines obtained from endcan.org and psychiatry.org should you be in need of support.

National Sexual Assault Hotline (RAINN) - 1-800-656-HOPE (1-800-656-4673)

Teen Dating Violence & Abuse (Love is Respect hotline) - 1-866-331-9474

National Suicide Hotline - 1-800-SUICIDE (1-800-784-2433)

National Alliance on Mental Illness - 1-800-950-NAMI (1-800-950-6264)

Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) - 1-800-662-HELP (1-800-662-4357)

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline – Call 800-273-8255 or Chat with Lifeline.

Crisis Textline – Text TALK to 741741.

Veterans Crisis Line - Call 800-273-8255 or text 838255.

Is there a topic you would like us to cover? Text us your idea.

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Transcript

Brandon: 0:00

Trigger warnings are absolutely necessary, because if you go into these movies without knowing that something may occur throughout this production that could trigger you based on whatever your history may be, you could be sitting into this production and you lose the impact and the appreciation for that production, because now something has occurred that has completely distracted you and taking you away from it because you didn't have the proper personal preparation to take this this thing in. Hello and welcome to the Cup of Tea Critiques Podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Chaisson, and like always, I'll be joined today by the great team that brings you cupofteacritiques.com. We are excited to get started on our podcast where we will share our perspectives on several areas in movies and television. At Cup of Tea Critiques, we review movie and television series and tag them with a tea brew that evokes a feel for the production. In this way, you can decide for yourself if they're your "cup of tea." Here on the Cup of Tea Critiques Podcast, we will dive even deeper into the productions and topics we broach on our website, engaging in conversation and sharing our unique perspectives. Ready for a deep look with the deep brew. This week's topic, when the industry goes real. For clarification with this episode, we mean real, R, E, A, L, and we want our audience to know today we will be covering productions that cover sensitive subject matters. Be advised, some of these productions may provide triggering moments.

Chris: 1:42

So usually on the podcast, we like to kind of talk about the inciting incident, the genesis of our discussion. So I think Brandon, you actually came up with today's topic, and this is really important to you, so why don't you share with our audience what made you want to discuss this topic today?

Brandon: 1:59

Yeah, thanks, Chris. And you're right, there was an inciting event. And just so the audience understands when we're talking about like heavy subject matters, we are meaning productions that cover like, racism, sexism, mental health, sexual violence and substance addiction, just as examples for you. For me, in this instance, I happen to come across the movie The Accused, which was made in the late 80s, starring Jodie Foster, and this movie basically covers a gang rape that occurred in a bar. And I hadn't seen it before. I actually came across it a few weeks ago. I already knew Jody Foster is an amazing actress. In fact, she actually won an Oscar for Best Actress in the leading role for this film. I have also been the first phone call when an unfortunate event has occurred. And so topics like these are very important to me. They're very important and dear to my heart. And so it's very important to me that Hollywood covers productions that have these types of subject matters. I'm glad that they share them, and I I know we've kind of talked about these types of productions in the past, so I wanted an opportunity for us to share with the audience just about how those conversations have come about. So among the things that we've we've talked about, one of the productions, and Mom and Dad, I'm going to go ahead and kick it to you because we talked about Girl with the Dragon Tattoo a lot with this, with this topic, because it actually was a moment that was both heavy but that had some levity with it as well later on. So why don't I kick it to you guys with this.

Terry: 3:26

Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, interestingly enough, covers a number of things that you might consider, um, heavy subjects. Um, mental abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, but again, like you said, it is one of our favorite movies. Partly, for me, is how she's overcome a lot of these things to get to where she is in her life. That's one thing. And the other is, I'm hesitant to say, but some of the revenge factors. I kind of rooted for her, because I felt that, in some ways, those things were a little bit liberating for her. I know it might be frowned upon to think that you know something like that happens, but I do think that there's a there's a point where even the audience kind of sighs and goes, yeah, good for you know, whomever.

Reba: 4:29

Yeah, I agree with Terry. Dragon Tattoo, first of all, just like Brandon said, it is one of my favorite movies. It is an incredible story about a young girl, early 20 something, who has a very difficult, a very, very difficult life. And to Terry's point, a lot happens to her in her short life. And ultimately, she has to basically scratch and claw throughout her life to overcome a lot of these things. And. And it is a heavy, a very heavy movie. But the reason, I think it's important for movies like this to be made is these are realistic circumstances for some people. We haven't experienced them necessarily, but some people have indeed experienced them, I think, for example, and not to speak too long on this, there is a not to give away too much either, but there is one particular storyline in there where she has to report to a guardian, essentially a social worker, who is basically responsible for overseeing her, her living needs -so provides her with some amount of money every month so that she can pay her rent and buy her food and such. And this person takes advantage of her and essentially says, you know, I don't give you anything unless you do what I want you to do. And you can imagine what some of those things were.

Excerpt from Girl with the Dragon Tattoo: 5:56

Excerpt from Girl with the Dragon Tattoo

Reba: 6:18

And she basically creates a way of dealing with this that we like. And but we know that this kind of thing happens to people, and I think she gives us examples of ways we can indeed deal with some of these things. So yeah, I think it's important, although this was from my understanding a fictional story, I think there's something to be learned from stories like this. So, yeah, sorry to be so long winded on that, but I just think that's that's a really good example of a heavy, heavy story.

Brandon: 6:54

Yeah, I mean, and that was a big reason to discuss this today, is that it's more like we have an appreciation for Hollywood, and for these productions that are put out there for us, because they do cover subject matters that are otherwise sometimes difficult to discuss, or they we feel that they're kind of underrepresented, and there's an opportunity for them to have their moment. For example, my daughter and I watched the show, Found, which very early on they talk about that they go looking for missing persons that are, you know, underrepresented out there, or typically, are the ones that are left behind. You know, minorities, LGBTQ members, such like that. And it has a bigger story that goes along with it as well. But found is one of those shows that not only do my daughter and I get a chance to connect on, but it's nice that it's a show that's out there specifically bringing to light those type of situations. Another thing is like Fresh Prince of Bel Air, you know, when the original sitcom was out, they actually had one episode. It was in season five. It was called Bullets Over Bel Air, where there was an incident where will ended up taking a bullet for his cousin. And it covers the topic of gun violence and fear from gun violence, not it's I'm really happy when, anytime we get an opportunity to have these types of subjects brought up in media, because, personally, it allows me also an opportunity to share with my family these topics that may not be as easy to bring up. And it gives us an opportunity to discuss, you know, those situations specific to the production. And maybe it kind of opens the door so that, instead of making it feel like a personal attack or a personal situation, that we can actually just discuss it, where kids are allowed to grow from it and actually glean proper ways of being safe when those situations occur.

Reba: 8:43

Yeah, I agree. You brought up. You brought up the show, Found, which focuses on finding, you know, underrepresented people that have gone missing, and we typically don't hear a lot about that in the media, and that's why I think that show is very, very important. It's basically bringing, bringing those situations to light. One that really struck me was Wind River. Taylor Sheridan's Wind River. I can't remember the year it was done, but Wind River is about a Native American woman, early 20s, that was went missing and ultimately found dead.

Excerpt from Wind River: 9:36

Excerpt from Wind River

Reba: 9:44

It is not based on a true story, but, and although these stories are fictional, it's just like many, many films, many movies, and frankly, some TV series, you know, they have very strong themes, and Wind River, Found, Dragon Tattoo, they're just, you know, just a few examples of some of those that you know, you know, teach us lessons or tell us something about sides of reality that we don't, that we don't necessarily think about. Because we, you know, we, for example, don't necessarily live in rural areas, or those kinds of things have not happened to us, but nonetheless, those things are realities for some people. So that is why it is important for the industry to continue to do these topics like these.

Chris: 10:34

I think also there's just these issues are so layered, and I think the I guess, the more we the more productions like this we have, the more that they can discover a nuance or or reveal a nuance, or teach us some nuanced perspective of of the bigger issue, rather than just saying, you know, this is bad, you know. Because on on the surface, it's like, well, hey, we all know that's not a good behavior, but it some of these, some of these productions can hit at exactly what the reactions people have to them are, why you why you may want to rethink that. An example, there was a movie called Trust that came out, I think, in 2010 that starred Clive Owen, and his daughter meets a stranger online, and she's, pre teen or teenage. She meets a stranger online, she meets up with him, and he turns out he's much older, and he sexually assaults her and and so he's living with this, the the guilt of that in the aftermath. Because she, you know, she's, at first, in denial about it, and you know, eventually comes to terms with with what what happened. And he is driven by the idea of what he's going to do to this guy when he finds and so while his daughter is suffering, he's vengeful minded.

Excerpt from Trust: 12:05

Excerpt from Trust

Chris: 12:09

And I think it's when you watch it, it's a good lesson, because a lot of a lot of men's reaction is, is, you know, to think of vengeance, or to think of violence, or to think of how they're going to get this guy back, and that's not necessarily comforting to someone who is just a victim, you know, of violence. And so, so it to me that that movie just hit at a nuanced, a nuanced element of an issue like that. And so I think, you know, if you took nothing else away from the movie, it was good for that. But that's what I think, that's what I think. That's why I think these stories are important, is that they might not even, even if it's not the bigger picture that it tells you something new, it could just give you a nuanced perspective.

Brandon: 13:11

Yeah, Chris, you're talking about issues being layered and everything. Another movie that came to mind was Crash. And specifically I'll bring up just like the Terrence Howard storyline where, you know, obviously this movie's been out for a little while now, and so hopefully I'm not spoiling it for anybody. But there's a point near the end of the movie where he finally explodes.

Excerpt from Crash: 13:29

Excerpt from Crash

Brandon: 13:52

What I like about Crash is that you realize that there is a build up to that moment. It wasn't just an immediate reaction to, Oh, this one bad thing happened to me. It was a lot of factors affecting his his state of mind, that by the time he finally explodes and loses it at the end of the movie, it makes a lot more sense how he got there, as opposed to just what we seem to always find out, like we will hear a story like that in real life, and only know about the end part of it, not knowing what led to it. And that's what I liked about Crash was it was a movie that revealed exactly how those those moments, you know, actually occur. That something had to be a preceding action or a lot of proceeding, you know, moments that ended up leading to that person blowing up. And so that was one of those movies. Another one, for me, though, was Requiem for a Dream, which covers a lot of addiction, but it also covered one of the story lines in there talked about the elderly being taken advantage of as well. And this woman was completely aloof as to the fact that she had been taken advantage of by the end of the movie. She's addicted to these diet pills that somebody convinced her was something she needed to have because she was convinced she was about to be on TV and everything, etc. Again, another older movie. So hopefully I'm not spoiling this for anybody, but the point being is that it's interesting these types of movies do reveal things that we don't necessarily think about. Like we hear like, Oh, be careful and look out for your you know, your older family, they're susceptible to these things. And sometimes you don't want to necessarily believe that, because you're like, hey, you know, my grandperson or whatever, you know, has lived a life, they know better, or whatever. But these, these types of movies can reveal exactly how easily they can be shifted into a spot. Even though we know better than to take advantage of somebody, and we may never think to take advantage of somebody like that, there are people out there that will. And so this was kind of eye opening for us to keep an eye out. Hey, help remind your your older family, to look out for these types of situations, and don't just keep them to yourself, because somebody may actually be going after you. Dad, is there a production for you that outside of Girl with a Dragon Tattoo that, like, really, you wanted to share about too with these types of situations?

Terry: 16:01

Yeah. Leaving Las Vegas is one that that really, you know, hits. It's, it's a story that you watch, you know, from beginning to end, and you're hoping that something happens to change the direction of the main character. And he, you know, I don't know. I'm not spoiling anything. As you say, Brandon, it's a very old movie. He goes to Las Vegas to drink himself to death, and he's hell bent on doing it, and nothing's going to stop him. He meets someone that they gain, you know, a connection, and it's a connection that you think might change the course of what's going on in but you know, ultimately.

Excerpt from Leaving Las Vegas: 16:53

Excerpt from Leaving Las Vegas

Terry: 17:20

Movie ends the way it ends, and it's very sad. And you wonder, is there anything that could have been done to change this person's course? You know, not the least, of which that he actually found someone that he connected with, and maybe that would give him reason to change his course.

Reba: 17:41

Yeah, I agree with you 100% on on Leaving Las Vegas. It's a very, very I agree with you. It's a very heavy movie starring Nicolas Cage, and it's a very, very sad film. And the movie that I think is quite similar to that is Back to Black, which is, which was about the life of Amy Winehouse, the incredible the incredible singer. And the movie was actually directed by Sam Taylor-Johnson, and Marisa Ebela actually starred in that and she did a tremendous job in this role. She did the singing even; it was an incredible movie, I thought. And, but that movie really made me think about what it made me realize is that the experiences that we have in our lives land differently on each of us. If the same kind of thing happens to each of us, not all of us aren't going to necessarily handle that the same. Some of us are more resilient. Some of us may be stronger than others. Others, you know, maybe not as strong and will need some help. You know, we run the gamut.

Terry: 18:55

Yeah, I think that movie really humanized Amy Winehouse for me, I mean, I remember just seeing things in the media where they showed her around, stumbling drunk. I didn't know anything about her, but this movie brought home the fact that, one, she's a human being, and two, she was suffering, because for her, it was a simple thing. She wanted love and a family, that was pretty much it, and that was a bit thwarted, you know, in her life, and it she couldn't deal with it just pushed her over the edge. In terms of the subjects that we're talking about in pre production we were talking about this. And what I was, I said, was, sometimes it's easier to, you know, to approach a subject indirectly. Film kind of gives us that, we can talk about the film and we're talking about the subject, and we're doing it indirectly, whereas many times it's difficult to approach a given subject directly.

Brandon: 20:00

Yeah, Dad, I'm glad you brought that up, because we're kind of touching a bit on, like, some of the benefits of these types of productions. And I can give a another episode or another example rather. Boy Meets World is an older show, but it's, you know, still available through streaming. And there's an episode, season six titled Everybody Loves Stuart, and it deals with Topanga getting a pass like there's a teacher of hers in college that goes to her dorm room and makes a pass at her and how uncomfortable that made her

Excerpt from Boy Meets World: 20:29

Excerpt from Boy Meets World, season 6, feel. Everybody Loves Stuart

Brandon: 20:51

We could talk about how maybe there could have been some things adjusted with the episode that really would have helped bring it home. But the generalized subject matter is beneficial to me as a parent, because it's one of those topics that I don't necessarily right today know how I would bring this up with my kid on my own. And at the same time, more importantly, we can sit and watch this episode, and it gives an avenue for us to talk about this subject matter, where she doesn't feel like I'm trying to tell her that she is opening herself up to these types of, you know, inviting these types of behaviors. And give her the sense that it's her fault, and I'm not. I would never want to make her feel that way. Shows that have these types of situations allow for us to have those conversations much more comfortably, so they don't, you know, feel attacked, and can actually take from it exactly how to protect themselves in a situation like that, and to look out for situations like that, so that they don't end up in more precarious situations. Another benefit, I'll say, for productions, for when we get any television or movies about these types of subject matters, is what I appreciate is they often try and give information to their audience to help for situations like these. For example, SEAL Team had an episode where there was a veteran that just was not recovering well. He was struggling with the medication and feeling like he wasn't being heard, and just felt like there was just no end in sight to his situation. Just when it seemed like he was going to have an avenue towards getting, well, it was denied him, and that pushed him over the edge, and it ended up dealing with, you know, he ultimately decided to end his life. And that episode was very important to helping us understand what veterans are experiencing when they come home. Kind of helping us understand like, Yo, we need to keep an eye out on our veterans more. Keep an eye out on these kind of situations that might be affecting them. Maybe at home, we can start working with you know, our different people in government to try and make these situations easier on them. But they also provided a hotline to help out with people contacting you know, different veterans groups to help you know your veteran to get through these types of situations. So that's what I'm saying. There's, there's a lot of different benefits to productions like these.

Chris: 23:07

Yeah, and I would say not only being educational, but also just providing a little balance. Because I think in the default is generally to to gloss over these are for these kinds of issues, or have them be in the background, or just complement the story a little a little bit. And I think, you know, and kind of fantasy and escapist plots, which, you know, there's plenty of that, and we enjoy those, violence, alcoholism, gambling, all that kind of stuff can be, whether it's glorified or not, it's it's it's stylized, and it just seems other worldly, and it's and the consequences don't really come through, or the the the long lasting effects after it don't really come through. And so if you're going to have those kinds of productions, it gives a little balance to have something that's a little more grounded. And so I think the other benefit, besides being educational, is just giving us some kind of balance for this. And you know, as far as you know, alcoholism, like you brought up, Boy Meets World. There's an episode called, If You Can't Be With the One You Love, where you know, Corey has broken up with Topanga, and, you know, is feeling, still in their high school years, and he's feeling heartache, and he turns to alcohol, and he gets Sean on alcohol. And Sean has an alcoholic father, so it kind of runs in his family. So they're drinking, and, you know, they're, you know, they're having a little fun with it. And, you know, later in the episode, Sean shoves Angela against the wall, and he, you know, he realizes the negative effects of alcoholism. It kind of hits him like a ton of bricks, you know, you know, in the middle of this episode, where he's in denial and ...

Excerpt from Boy Meets World: 25:02

Excerpt from Boy Meets World, If You Can't Be with the One You Love

Chris: 25:30

I think it's, it's really affecting for, you know, for a comedy you know, to to have a moment like that, where they're, you know, they're producing however many laughs per minute, and then you have a moment like that where time just kind of stands still. And and so I think it's particularly affecting just because of the the genre of the show, essentially, yeah, not to jump ahead.

Reba: 25:55

Yeah, yeah. I agree. I agree. One thing Brandon brought up military and one of the one of the shows we reviewed a while ago, maybe about a year ago, it's called Lonesome Soldier, which is about a young man who who enlists, thinking he's only going to be in the reserves and winds up serving overseas, and before you know it he's in combat, and his time gets extended and extended, and before you know it, he comes home a different person and has a very difficult time with this. And I don't want to give too much of the show away, but you can imagine what he's what he's dealing with with. alcohol, you know, attended, suicide, all these kinds of things. And one of the big things that that movie made me realize is it's not just educational, as Chris pointed out, in the sense of, you know, kind of seeing up close, you know, what they're dealing with, which I thought this movie did quite effectively, what what soldiers who have been in combat are dealing with, as well as what their families are dealing with, but also the extent to which we as a public contribute to it unwittingly. One of the things they pointed out in this film is we treat soldiers as heroes, and we say thank you for your service when they are not feeling as heroes necessarily, because, you know, some of the casualties over there that they've contributed to were innocent people or children, in some cases, and that was very that's a very difficult thing for them to deal with. And yet, they come back home and we're saying, Thank you for your service. Well, they don't feel like heroes. They don't feel they should be thanked for their service. And so we are making the issues that they're dealing with even worse. And I thought that was very, a very interesting revelation. And so it makes you wonder. It just makes you think about, what should we be, you know, what should we be doing or not doing to not exacerbate the issues that they're that they're dealing with? So I think these movies that deal with these very heavy subjects, they have these kind of mini teachings throughout that I think are worth, certainly worth paying attention to, just some mini learnings in there that we should definitely pay attention to. So just wanted to bring that up. It's Lonesome Soldier again. Nino Aldi is the director of that film.

Chris: 28:23

I also want to add, I think, I think we should just say, like not all of these productions are going to hit it on the head. Either some of them might not be fully educational, or they might, they might have something in there that somebody disagrees with, somebody disagrees with, somebody knowledgeable might disagree with, or say, like, Well, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have approached this topic this way, or this might have left this out. So they're not all going to be perfect. They're not all going to hit the nail on the head, I think. But I think it might be a positive just for them to facilitate some kind of discussion. You know, I think for because, because I think that you can learn from the people who react to it, and from the people who, you know, who criticize it, or who say it might have been missing this element or or that element. And then maybe, you know, if other filmmakers catch wind of that and they choose to tackle it going forward, they know, Well, I remember this movie came out, or this television show came out, and it kind of it missed the boat on this. And so, so I feel like it's important to say, like they're not necessarily all going to be perfect either, but you know, if it gets us talking, then in the long run, it might do more, more good than harm.

Reba: 29:42

I think that's an excellent point. These productions, to your point, are not all going to be, you know, balanced. There will be something we can glean for them from them that can inform our perspective and facilitate discussion, and that, really, when you think about that, that should be the goal of, frankly, any production, especially on a heavy subject. I don't think it, I bet if you ask any filmmaker, you know, some of these questions about the goal of their production, I would bet you that their response would be that it is not meant to answer all questions, or to answer questions in only one way that they recognize that this is, you know, our response to or this is the way I see things. This is just my perspective on a subject. It's a point of view. It truly is.

Brandon: 30:34

You know, we've talked a lot about the different benefits to productions like these, but, uh, and I think we would be remiss if we didn't ask the question as to if there are any drawbacks to any productions that cover these kind of sensitive subjects. Mom, Chris, though, if you can go first, you have any feelings on that?

Chris: 30:52

Here's, well, my only drawback, which I actually think is maybe it's partially a drawback. I feel like these kind of topics can really highlight the importance of, you know, diversity in these spaces. I think you get, you know, when we talk about the nuanced elements of things that you know, people with direct experience can probably provide those better than anyone. And so, you know, when we talk about diversity, you know, let's just take directors, for example, if, if you have diversity, not just in ethnicity or in gender, but, you know, socio economic status, or, you know, where people, did the people grow up in a rural area? Did they grow up in a suburban area? Did they grow up in an urban area? Did they grow up in a two parent household? Were they a child of divorce? There's all these different, disability. There's all these different elements that could that, you know, shape our world view. I just saw a movie called Warfare was co written by one of the soldiers who was there for that event. So, I mean, you don't think the movie benefited from having that perspective? So there's, you know, so there's all kinds of when we speak about diversity, I think people tend to think of one or two different things but there's all these different things that can add to it. And so I think, I think these things highlight how diversity can make these, can push more depth into these sort of productions. The drawback, the only drawback I could see from that is that it mainly that it could end up falling on certain people from under, underrepresented groups. Because I think, I think it is a little, you know, it's unfair or a burden, or however you want to say it. You get, you get, I'll use race as an example. Like there are a lot of Black filmmakers who just want to make, you know, young Gen Z age will say they just want to make a fun movie. You know about, you know, their friends, you know, just being young, rapscallions, getting in trouble or throwing parties, or, you know. They just want, they just want to make something fun. Or maybe they want to make a movie where Black people are in outer space, outer space, you know. Like they want to make fun stuff, and they tend to have this responsibility or this expectation thrust on them that they address these issues, you know, in their work. And so the only drawback I could see is that some underrepresented groups, you know, and creative people from those groups get, get tasked or burdened with this, this, this expectation of educating everybody or dealing with struggle in their movies that that maybe they don't want to.

Reba: 33:43

I think, you know, there are some exceptions to that obviously. I think about Killers of the Flower Moon, that was actually done by Martin Scorsese, and my understanding is he was insistent upon doing that project. So there are, there are certainly some exceptions. Taylor Sheridan does quite a few projects on people who live in rural areas and people who live on Native American reservations, and so, you know, there are some exceptions to that. And I don't know how to respond to that. I don't know. I don't know if there's any way around it. I hear you, Chris. I understand exactly what you mean. Outside of that, though, I'm not sure that I see, that I see any drawbacks to this work. And I say that because so many people watch film and different, you know, on different media. They watch, they watch it via streaming. They watch it, you know, at the theaters and so on and so forth. So so many people watch film, and there's so many lessons to be learned from film, whether it's told through fictional stories, or whether it's told through stories that are based on real life. And I think we have to, you know, take advantage of that opportunity, that we have all these eyes on these pieces of work to teach people through the themes that they can potentially glean from these works. And so because of that, I'm just, I'm hard pressed to see any drawbacks from doing these heavy subjects. I do think though they should be, you know, there should be trigger warnings put put on some of these things. Like I said, not everybody can handle some of these works. But outside of that, I just, I'm hard pressed to see any, any real drawbacks.

Brandon: 35:38

Trigger warnings are absolutely necessary. Because if you go into these movies without knowing that something may occur throughout this production that could trigger you, based on whatever your history may be, you could be sitting into this production and you lose the the impact and the the appreciation for that production, because now something has occurred that has completely distracted you and taking you away from it because you didn't have the proper personal preparation to take this, this thing in. So that's a drawback, is if these, if these productions, no matter what genre, don't put those types of trigger warnings in, then that's that's a problem, and that's where they lose the opportunity to impact their audience the way they probably intend to.

Terry: 36:22

Yeah, I think sometimes they intentionally do that, though, because they want a certain reaction. But to you guys, point that

Reba: 36:30

It can be damaging. It

Terry: 36:32

Yeah.

Reba: 36:32

It can be damaging.

Terry: 36:33

The to me, the obvious drawbacks, though, are the fear of the copycats, people that will take that and, you know, perpetuate whatever it is that that's going on in those films. And that, to me, is a real danger. But I think, as we're discussing this, though, that the benefits, I think, hopefully, outweigh the drawbacks in that respect. But to me, the only thing that I see up front is the fact that others may follow suit in whatever particular heavy topic we're talking about, whether it be alcoholism, you know, sexual assault, etc, etc,

Brandon: 37:17

Dad, you bring up an interesting point there. Because immediately, when you brought up copycat, the first thing I thought about was the original release of The Program. The main character in that movie was, you know, he was dealing with his own mental health situation. And one of the scenes that was originally in the production was the way he dealt with the stresses of his situation was to put himself in in dangerous ones, yes. And he laid down, actually, in the middle of the expressway, right on the right, on the white dashed line. And so his teammates followed him out there. And rather than people, as they should have, taking this as a moment of like, this is nuts and dangerous, and not the way to handle the situation, you had a selection of people that actually went and copied the situation, and ultimately, we had a lot of tragic moments as a result. So they ended up pulling that scene from the the theatrical release as a result. But that is a drawback. When people don't take the lesson, they just go, oh, I want to do that too. That's that, right? That really stinks. I'm hoping we eventually progress beyond that and start understanding the difference between, like, this is a scene in the movie, and like, Oh, that looks like fun. That doesn't make sense to me. Personally, I don't know if I felt that there's a drawback as much as it's a concern. And my concern is that while I obviously agree with these types of productions. I wouldn't have brought up this topic today if I didn't. My concern is that for the people that make them, that we, I really hope they don't keep making them in a stereotypical fashion, like drug issues seemingly only existing in like a black community, or gun issues in a black community, or it's always have to be gangs, whatever, like that. So it's not so much trying to tell Hollywood what to do. But my concern is just that I hope that when they do cover these types of subject matters, they make sure they show up for every type of community, so that you can understand the seriousness of the that subject, as opposed to people being able to put that subject into a box and therefore make it easier for it to be dismissed.

Terry: 39:20

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. That's a very good point.

Brandon: 39:25

Mom, you actually brought up new media a bit, and during pre production, we were talking about this, and Chris, I'm going to kick it to you for this matter, because we were talking about ways that new media covers this type of subject matter, and you and I were in agreement that it is a little bit generational, but also the ways that, like new media, has made this a little better, beneficial for this generation of people. Go ahead, Chris, let me kick it to you.

Chris: 39:50

I mean, when we talk about a lot of these issues, we tend to talk about them in relation to youth. And it's not to say that you, you know, young people are the only one who deal with these, you know, that's certainly not the case. But, but young people are impressionable and still figuring themselves out and and so I think at one point in time, you know, 20, maybe even just 15 years ago, you know, a lot of this was, you know, these were television shows that were on, you know, certain networks that had a lot of eyeballs on them, and now, I think, you know, with with streamers, with, you know, a lot of Gen Z years being on YouTube and Tiktok, maybe it's tough to really get, you know, that kind of groundbreaking episode that gets people talking as much. And so, I mean, I guess the way, if you want to go about it is to really look at who the influencers on those on those platforms are, and, you know, occasionally cast them, you know, in a traditional, you know, in a movie or a show that where you're kind of bringing over that audience, you know, and then maybe you benefit that way. But that, the the only concern I have with this is how, you know, how viewership and, you know, consumption habits have changed.

Brandon: 41:18

Yeah, I feel like that, the consumption habits have changed. But the way we are able to get these issues, these kinds of topics, out to people that are consuming them differently, has, is great for today, for example, like YouTube shorts or reels, you know, Facebook reels, things like that, can take a production, say, like Crash, and instead of taking the entirety of the movie, they can take one story line in it, take a couple of scenes out of there, and truncate it down to maybe about a five to 10 minute consumption tool for for those that don't have this time or attention span. It helps a person consuming that to see exactly what's going on from beginning to end. So at least in these ways, I think you know, through to say Tiktok and YouTube, with it being truncated down, it helps them to to get out to more people that way. Because they might look at, they might go to their favorite streaming service and see that this production is going to be 208 minutes, you know, over three hours. They don't want to sit there for three hours for it, but if they see a reel that's eight to 10 minutes now they'll at least get the benefit of seeing this situation and going, oh, you know what this is, this is serious, this is good. They may not see the whole movie, but at least these types of topics have gotten out to those people. And maybe that's another way that it can get, get an opportunity to help someone.

Terry: 42:37

That's an interesting thing in that, you know, as you were saying that, it made me think that having that may actually prompt them to go see the movie. They might be even more interested in saying exactly, I've seen this, maybe I want to see the rest of it.

Brandon: 42:56

Yeah, you're right, Dad. I mean, it's, it's essentially like a longer trailer that you can consume and it'll, you know, for whatever reason, sometimes we're more willing to watch that five or six minute clip of the movie and realize, like, oh, wait, this is worth watching. And you know, while it may have been one storyline, now they get all the storyline. So I think that's absolutely huge. There I will. I'm going to move on. There's one last question I actually have for the whole panel. And basically, we've kind of mentioned our feelings on this a bit, but I think it's important for the entire audience to think about this as well. Should dealing with these subjects fall within the purview of a particular genre, you know, for example, like in comedy, cover these topics, or should these types of matters only be covered with documentaries? I'll start really, real quick with answering that question from my perspective. And I think when I initially saw, like when we initially were talking about this question, I was leaning towards there were certain genres that shouldn't cover it. But as we've discussed, it turns out, like I was concerned about comedies, for example, like, I'm concerned that people will dismiss that episode because it's normally a funny one, and it's not actually a funny episode. But overall, no, I absolutely feel like every genre should go ahead and cover this, because the more audience members that have an opportunity to see these types of things, I can only see more benefits to those people consuming that production, and then that information get passed along, here, there, anywhere. So, yes, I think every genre can cover these subject matters, and I absolutely feel that they should. I'm glad that they do.

Terry: 44:32

Yeah, I think that's a delicate thing. I guess originally I was thinking that there's some things that comics and comedy probably should stay away from specific subject matters, but I guess it depends on how they handle it. I can see a stand up comic making light of some things to bring attention to them so that people kind of, they land on it, they sit on it. But others, I think it'd be hard for them to to work into, you know, the some of the more serious things, sexual assault, I don't know how you would do that, but in terms of, like, a comedy, sitcom or show, as Chris mentioned earlier, I guess there are some points where you can have poignant moments and deal with the subject matter that kind of sort of divorces itself from the comedy side of it and it deals with the real issue. So, yeah, I'll leave it at that.

Brandon: 45:35

There's an episode of Fresh Prince of Bel Air in the first season, actually, it's the sixth episode. It was mistaken identity. Will and Carlton are driving a Benz down to one of their dad's colleagues, and they got pulled over for basically being two brothers that shouldn't be driving a car that nice. And the whole episode is done from a comedic standpoint. It's only at the very end do they really like, make you sit with the reality that this was not a proper arrest, that this was only done because they're like, You guys shouldn't be able to afford a car that nice. We already know that the characters are rich in this in this show, so obviously we know that it's okay. But it was one of those times where I'm like, this is a really heavy topic, and I questioned if they covered that topic well. Maybe they did, since it was in the first season and they had to establish more of being a sitcom than being a heavy topic sitcom. But that was a concerning moment for me, because I was like, I don't know if I liked it. It was so many laughs about something that I personally can identify with that kind of situation. So that just kind of stunk.

Chris: 46:45

Well, I, but the end of that episode, though, I to your point, it's, is, I feel like what it's, what it illustrated was that Carlton had this faith in the system. There were things he didn't see or didn't appreciate, and now it was happening to him, you know. And he argues with Will at the end, you know. And Will doesn't really want to hear it, you know. And then, you know, he goes to to Phil, and Phil's kind of like, Yeah, I remember the first time I was stopped and I thought that. And so he ...

Excerpt from Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Season 1: 47:19

Excerpt from Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Season 1

Chris: 47:42

The episode ends kind of zooming out on Carlton as he's rethinking this. And it, usually they kind of have, like a little music to play out the end, but it just kind of, the credits roll up. And I thought that was an interesting way to uh, to broach the topic of, instead of just having them all be on the same page about it, for him to be a young person, having this reality hit him in that moment, I thought was, I mean, I don't know. I thought it was. I thought that was a pretty effective way to go about it.

Brandon: 48:19

Yeah, I know. I'm trying to say this. I'm not trying to say it wasn't a good way of going about it. But that was a concern of mine when I, when we were preparing for this podcast, and I rewatched that episode, and we were trying to decide on if certain genres should cover these types of subject matters, that was one episode that stood out to me where I was like, I really like. Like, I said, I've unfortunately been in this type of situation before, and so for me, thinking like, this is all funny, haha, I took a moment to to calm down from it, because I'm like, it wasn't funny to deal with. So how do I feel about a show making light of a situation that did not feel good for me, you know. But in terms of how to impact the audience, to your point, Chris, maybe this was exactly the right way to execute this.

Terry: 49:07

Yeah, I think that, interestingly enough, that a lot of times that is how comedy deals with that is that, rather than going through their normal whatever, however, they end the show whatever that their effect is to make it land, to do exactly what Chris said, they just leave it hanging there.

Chris: 49:30

Well, yeah, I think, I think the older sitcoms also had the benefit of the generally had studio audiences or laugh tracks, so they had these things that were meant to facilitate this jovial atmosphere throughout their their shift. Yeah, and, you know, obviously sitcoms have moved away from that. I mean, there's still some of those, but there's, there's one-camera sitcoms, there's kind of like on location stuff, like it's, it's, they've blurred the lines. Sometimes, stuff that's not really a sitcom is in the comedy cat now.

Reba: 50:01

I frankly, I think any genre should be able to to broach heavy subjects. I think, for example, about the movie The Good House, and it was directed by Maya Forbes and Wallace Wlodarsky. And I think that was done around 2010 or something like that. It was really good, really good movie, that is, IMDb has it categorized as a dark comedy. Sigourney Weaver plays a woman who is an alcoholic. She's addicted to wine, and I, and it was, but it was very, it was very light film, which is probably why I got the comedy, the comedy label, but it was also serious in that she was indeed an alcoholic, and there was a potential for things to go very badly in that film, not just for her, but, you know, someone, for example, something that could have happened while she was driving and such. So this was a very serious issue, so much that even her family even did an intervention here.

Excerpt from The Good House: 51:02

Excerpt from The Good House

Reba: 51:21

But I thought they did a very, very good job with that film. American Skin, how mental illness can, in my view, be triggered. There's racism and mental illness in that film, and how his issues were triggered by the police profiling, and so it was triggered by racism. And of course, he went down, he backslid as a result of that. Chris reviewed a film called Thelma, which was a comedy, a few years ago. And the film, if I recall correctly, the film was about an older woman who was taken advantage of, I think her money was stolen or something, and Richard Roundtree came in, and I think she's in a nursing home. And Richard Roundtree came in, and the two of them, you know, basically worked together to get her money back from the thieves. And I thought, you know, yeah, you know, the older woman gets justice. I thought it was just really great to be able to do that in a comedy. And you can imagine everyone cheering, cheering for her victory at the theater. So I thought that was, I thought that was really good.

Excerpt from Thelma: 52:30

Excerpt from Thelma

Chris: 52:59

June Squibb was the star of Thelma. Just and, yeah, Thelma was very good. I think, I think, you know, to the question, though I I think documentaries have a unique, because of the format, they can provide, you know, research, information, statistics, interviews from experts, they can kind of do things that that you know would not work or seem forced in in more fictional stuff, um. So, I mean, I do feel like documentaries in particular have that obligation, but that is kind of what they are for. Um, as far as other genres, I think, I think they all play a role because, and I think that's necessary, because people gravitate toward different genres. So the way for for them to reach every, you know, for these social issues to be discussed is for them to be disgusted in any given genre, because not everybody watches comedies, or not everybody watches, you know, romantic dramas, or not everybody watches, you know, any, any particular genre. So I think it, it would be a mistake to say it falls on one genre more than than another. You know, I do think with comedies, and I think as far as as far as particularly heavy moments or heavy subjects, I really think it, I really think it helps when we have these kind of long running series where people feel this emotional attachment to characters, you know. And I think when you when you're able to bring up these issues for a character that we've been with for however many seasons, and feel, you know genuine, you know almost love for this even though they're fiction. You feel love for this person in a way, to see them going through it kind of makes it more real, because you could imagine somebody in your life going through that, whether you know, whether that is a reality for you or not. So I do think comedies have have a leg up and being able to discuss it, or, you know, to bring issues like that to the forefront. But I really think any any creative who wants to bring that up in their film, regardless of what genre it is, should, should give it a go. And I think we should also make space for filmmakers who just want to make something entertaining too. But because, you know, the most authentic, the way for it to come across authentic is to have someone who wants to have that in their in their work. But really, any, any genre, I think can broach these topics. It doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be good, by the way. Might might be bad, but, but it's but they should all, anybody should take the swing if they want to.

Brandon: 55:53

Thank you so much for listening. We look forward to you joining us again next week for another great discussion. Make sure you rate and follow the Cup of Tea Critiques Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. As this episode covered heavy topics, we have provided hotlines in the Episode Notes below for anyone that needs them. Is there a particular heavy subject you wish to be covered in media? Leave a comment and share it with us. You can stay in the loop on all things COTC by subscribing on our website, at cupofteacritiques.com. You can also find us on Facebook. Check out our Instagram, at cupofteacritiques, and on Letterboxd at COTCritiques. For Reba Terry, and Chris, I'm Brandon. We'll see you next week for another deep look with a deep brew.