69: Mustard Seed: Small Seeds, Grand Design

Most of us hear “mustard seed” and jump straight to a motivational line about tiny faith. We did too, until we realized we were blending ideas and missing what Jesus actually points to in Matthew 13: the kingdom of heaven, understood in its Jewish context as God’s reign. That single shift changes the whole parable from a personal pep talk into a story about how God’s rule arrives quietly, starts small on purpose, and grows into something that outscales every expectation.

We talk through why parables can feel simple on the surface yet still function like wisdom literature, revealing depth over time. Then we trace the mustard seed image outward: Jesus beginning His ministry in humility, the shock of a Messiah who doesn’t match the crowd’s idea of power, and the surprising detail that “a man sowed” the seed into the ground. That line opens the door to a richer reading that can echo death, burial, and resurrection, with new life pushing up like a plant breaking through soil.

From there we connect the “tree” and the birds nesting in its branches to Old Testament kingdom imagery, especially Daniel, and to the Bible’s repeating themes of seeds, roots, branches, fruit, and harvest. We also bring it home: if God plants good seed in us, what does it look like to tend that garden, grow toward maturity, and avoid becoming a fruitless tree?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Welcome to the Boundless Bible. My name is David Shapiro. Hey, I'm Javi Marquez. And I'm Jason Holloway. Hey guys, how's it going? Today, I am actually going to do something I very rarely do, which is tell you of a huge mistake that I've made with scripture. And we're going to go over today the parable of the mustard seed. And before we get into the mistake I made about it, I just want to lay down a lot of times people look at the parables. And because of today's modern language, they look at it and they go, I don't understand what he's just trying to say. But parables were actually originally made to make a complex thought easier, more simplistic for somebody to understand. So back then, 2,000 years ago, when Jesus was using parables, it was actually to make things more understandable and easier for the crowd he was then preaching to. So it's very funny that one of the things I got wrong ended up being one of the things that should have been easier to comprehend just because I was misreading and misunderstanding and actually blending several ideas of the mustard seed together. And so today I think we're going to talk about this and we're going to talk about what it actually means and just how deep that concept goes. So I hope you guys are.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

As you were starting, I was like, should we talk about this first before we do this and record this of your mistake? I think I think I know the mistake you're talking about because as I was reading it and studying in it, I think people use this for a different way, the mustard seed, and which I think is it's incredible. But as we read it, you it it's really straightforward of what it means and what's it speaking to.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

I can't wait to see where this one goes because I haven't agreed with either of you yet. I I think that parables were meant to be confusing, or at least not straightforward. I mean, look, Jesus, Jesus even says in Matthew 13, 10, I just looked it up real quick. He says, you know, the disciples came to him and said, Why do you speak to the people in parables? And he said, Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. So I think it's it's supposed to be a bit of a secret code. It's supposed to be a bit of an in-crowd understanding, not to be confusing, but it's it's supposed to require you to think and and to be able to discern and to have wisdom or at least or develop wisdom to be able to understand them. So I don't know if I agree with it simple, but uh, I appreciate that. It makes me sound better about getting it wrong.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

So that makes me feel better.

Faith Vs God’s Reign

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Look, well, well, let's let's see where we're going because I think this one, this one's got some legs on it.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

So this one, and I'm bringing from Matthew 13, 31 to 32. Yeah. Jesus is at Galilee and he's on a boat and he pulls away from the crowd and he's talking to the crowd. And this is where this parable comes from. And the mistake I'll just tell you right off the bat is I thought that when you talk about the mustard seed, it always relates to me as the faith is the side of a mustard seed, which is hey, when you have faith, it's small and that's all you need and it'll grow and all the things you talk about in church. And that's is not actually what this parable is about. Not at all. Um, because what he talks about is that this has to do with the kingdom of heaven. Yeah. And it's completely different than what I thought it was. And then even looking further into this, the the word that he actually uses is Malchak Shamayim, which is a Jewish word that we know is heaven or paradise, but this is actually used to mean God. So a lot of the Israel uh Israelites would not take the name of God. They don't say the name of God, they actually haven't said it in thousands of years. So what they do is they use different words, adonoi, Hashem, right to describe God. This is one of them where this is God's reign. So this is the kingdom of God's reign, not the kingdom of heaven, as in you pass away and go to it. So the Shemayam, this is now God. So he's they're talking about God's kingdom, and it just changed the entire that changed the whole parable for me. God's reign parable completely different. It's God's reign.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

So you're saying God's reign, not God's kingdom, because when I hear God's kingdom, I'm thinking of heaven and a place like a palace, right? Or a place for it. So and it does say the kingdom of heaven in English or in the NIV that I read. Yep. So that's interesting that you're saying that. So okay, okay. That that throws me off a little bit, but I like that.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

It threw me off a whole lot a bit.

Parables As Hidden Wisdom

SPEAKER_04 4:55

Again, I'm not talking about faith, but actually it makes sense to me because of some of this the studying that I was doing, it related back to what Daniel was talking about and talking about the reign, pretty much the kingdom, but talking about reigning and it reigning it forever as he was telling the the as he was prophesying and foretelling to King Nebuchadnezzar. And I think that makes sense now that it's the reign of the kingdom rather than heaven.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah. I mean, this is good. Listen, right now we're we're talking about if you look at at Jesus, yeah, he is not yet fully into his ministry. He started his ministry, he did a couple of miracles, he's got a small crowd, not a massive crowd yet. This is small beginnings. So he's not only talking about God, he's talking about himself. He is the mustard seed. Right. This is me, the the little one. Now, people expected, they were probably very confused by it. Jason, you mentioned parables would be confusing. They were probably confused because they expected this conquering huge, massive figure. And what he is actually saying is Jesus is calling himself a small little mustard seed. This is how I'm starting off, which uh again just changes the dynamic of this parable tremendously in my eyes. I think the reign of it, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:15

The the the reign of it is small. And I think that's incredible to think about too, because I have some statistics as I was looking into it. Google says, you know, according to Google, in 2026, you know, Christianity is approximately 2.4 to 2.5 billion. The the one of the largest religion is which is roughly about 30-33 percent the world's population. Where in the first century, where Jesus was starting off his his ministry, the the considered like a Jewish sect, it was you know, it was really small. It was 12, right? Potentially. So to see the growth in that. And then in the 16th century, it was about 10%. So how much it grew from then to the 16th century and now to the 21st century, I guess you could say, to like 30 or 33 percent.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Yeah. I I would add to this while we're talking, I mean, I think there's more to it than that too, still. I mean, I think this is the what a parable is, right? The parable doesn't have to be a singular meaning. And I I agree with you. I think it means Jesus is the mustard seed that turns into the whole tree, right? I think that Christianity is the the mustard seed that starts small and becomes the whole tree. I think that, but I think also within side of ourselves is a small faith. And our small faith becomes a large faith, and it does take us, it takes us over, you know, it becomes, it becomes who we become. And so it only takes a little faith inside of a very unfaithful body to start an entire renewal or a regrowth of ourselves until we become the whole tree. You know, we we are filled with with this original mustard seed as well. So I think there's I think there's levels, right?

Jesus As The Mustard Seed

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Yeah, there definitely is. And and it always shocks me that people are amazed that they go, okay, I expected this conquering hero and he came this way, and this is shocking to me. But if you actually look at the Bible, if you look at the Old Testament, David started off as a shepherd, Israel started off as one family, Moses started off in a basket going down the knot. Like every one of the heroes in the Old Testament started off as a mustard seed. So to be shocked by this is always for me shocking. I'm going, what did you expect? This is this is literally how every single hero forms in the Bible. And so this is Jesus now who's going, hey, I am a small mustard seed. And and just a quick aside, because I am the apologist who loves to argue points. This is something where Jason wins one for the symbolic over literal. Believe it or not, the mustard seed is not the smallest seed. There are smaller seeds, and a lot of people argue this and go, hey, this is not the smallest seed. Um, but to be fair, yes, this is symbolic. This is just a small seed that turns into something massive. Um, so just just another read through the readings through the research I was doing a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

It's at the time of what it was, it was the smallest seed. And now we have well, it was known to be. Yeah, it was known to be that. It was known to be the smallest, right? I think now as we look at it, yes, there's other seeds that grow bigger. But yes, like you're saying, David, this is using, let's just use one analogy of mustard seed and how big it grows, that still reigns true. It's a small little seed that grows into be, I think about up to 10 feet or so.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Well, the mustard seed, and this is this is the sorry, Jason. No, to be look to be fair, if let's say there was a smaller seed, right? It's the poppy seed. I'm just gonna make it up, right? Let's say there was a poppy seed, but nobody in the rain in the region knew what a poppy seed was. And then they were if Jesus had said a poppy seed, they'd have been like, wait, wait, Jesus, can you go back? What's that poppy thing you you're talking about? Like he he, you know, right in order to talk effectively to people, you have to talk in the language that they know. So it's not a it's not a point against Jesus that he didn't know what the smallest mustard seed was. He chose it as a rhetorical device for the people that he was speaking to, yeah, because that's what they understand to be a much smaller mustard.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

Which is why I feel like the parables, I dis maybe disagree with you, Jason, be going back, is parables are made to be simpler to be for that audience. Where things are think the the disciples, they what was known to them, right? It was known like the how can I say this the spirit like they they knew what what what was happening, they could see that Jesus is the Messiah, they could see, they could feel it, they could understand that. But it says that within within, I think, Matthew 13. But the parables are being used, so people that don't know, not seeing, not hearing, it says in Matthew 13, they'd be able to understand what it is at hand.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

And I think by the way, I'm not saying I'm not saying it should be unintelligible. Yeah, I'm not saying that the parables were meant to be unintelligible and that nobody could crack them because they were some like algorithmic, you know, like masterpiece of of difficulty. I'm just saying I don't think they were necessarily meant. I mean, Jesus says himself, it wasn't it, they were meant to be received by the people who could understand them, but that if somebody didn't understand them, that they were just they were they just wouldn't. And so, but they're right, they're not so simple that it's that it's a cur that it's a clear answer, is all I'm getting at.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Like there's a depth, there's a definitely a depth to them. I mean, listen, which is why they're not gonna be able to do that even in this parable, even in this parable it actually says that man sowed it into the ground. So now, okay, yeah, we if we go, this is the mustard seed of Jesus, and he's saying, I'm starting off very small, I'm gonna grow, I am going to spread like wild fire fire, fire, like you said, Javi, but man will sow it into the ground. Again, what does this mean? Because God is the one who made everything. So, how are we making God from the seed? It's very interesting when you start to look at it. There is a depth to it. And then when you look further into it, what he's talking about, at least in in my research and my interpretation, is he's talking about his death and burial. And this is man putting the seed into the ground for it to grow.

How Small Beginnings Become Massive

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Right? Like death. You have to kill Jesus for his for him to resurrect. And resurrection would be like growing, right? Like you put a seed in the ground and it comes out of the ground. That's it. And then spreads like wildfire.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

I mean, this is so the parable, even when it's understanding, it's depth is in because I've read that. I'm going, what do you mean, man puts him into the ground? There's no way that man could put God into the ground, except we did. Exactly. So there it really is a depth to it sometimes that when you start to look at it, you go, okay, I'm understanding this on a different level. Now, there are things that the Jewish people listening would have understood. So there's this wonderful part where it now becomes the the tree and it is housing nesting birds. Right. And there is a a throwback to you mentioned earlier Javi Daniel, Daniel 4, the birds of heaven lived in the branches. Um, so you have the this great kingdom with many branches that birds will be nesting on, again, open now to Gentiles, open to different cultures, different kingdoms. So they would have understood that the the thought of a bird nesting in the tree comes from something in the old testament. But there's a depth to it that I just think is astonishing once you start looking at it and realizing that man, Jesus laid down some He laid down some stories that have so many different levels that you can't possibly understand it all in one pass because I've had it several times.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

That whole that whole chapter I think is so profound actually because Matthew 13 itself has several parables in there. And I wanted to break it down a little bit just because the the depth of that one parable of mustard seed combined nestle like nestled right right between the other parables is all telling a story. And I feel like the story there is what he's trying to say is as you read it, Matthew 13, it's it's talking about you know the seed that's the word and the the the gathering of the people, right? The harvesting, right? And the growth of that leading into the end of age and the separation of good seeds and bad seeds, good harvest, bad harvest, good fish, bad fish, towards the end of Matthew 13, talking about the he casts out a wide net. And it just starts off with that. And I think that's incredible. If you really break down Matthew 13 and talking about the parables of all they're all together, talking about the the God's, I thought kingdom, but you're saying rain, God's rain, and how it starts off with one by one, those that believe, those that don't believe, those that hear and and didn't grow, right? Talking about the the separate the sower, the the parable of the sower. So it's incredible. I think if you look back at it, you could sit there for for weeks and really try to break it down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

Yeah, and I and I like what you're saying about the fact that it goes together with other ones because that also gives you some context clues as to what you know what some of this stuff is is meant to be talking about. But David, you mentioned the the tree growing and the birds go into that tree. We haven't even discussed, and this is not my expertise, but the Jewish faith, a tree itself, you know, wasn't the it was the tree of life. It was that there was a lot to do with with trees and the branches, and that was just like a very, very early Jewish symbology or or symbolism for um I don't know if you if you're prepared to talk about that at all, but I mean I think that's that's the other thing is like you're you're planting a seed, and the this tiny, tiny, tiny seed grows into a tree, which is a very Jewish, you know, symbol. So yeah, and then that tree grows big enough to where you know it becomes even more uh accessible or even more functional for other things like birds. And so the tree itself has its own meaning.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

I I mean it's it's interesting because you're 100% right. I look at things like in Genesis, you have Abraham, who they talk about a very specific tree, and that specific tree, again, has a root system that you can't see that's larger than anything else in the world. And that root system is something that that's the reason they used that type of tree is because of the roots in it. The same, the same Abraham story, they're talking about the seed to all nations. He's gonna have the seed to all nations, and you go further and further. The the interesting thing is every time the Bible talks about a seed, people instantly start to talk about the tree. They want to see the tree. The problem is you have the expectation. We expect the cedar tree, but God plants a seed. So our expectation always is hey, I have accepted my Lord and Savior as Jesus Christ, and now I'm expecting everything to change. And the expectation is that, but God is saying, I'm gonna give you a seed, I am going to plant it in you and let it grow. And it will eventually spread and become, you know, the the the cedar tree or the the mustard tree, which is funny, is known for spreading rapidly and actually being invasive. It's explosive growth. So eventually we'll get there, but right now you're getting just a little bit. So the the tree is what every Jewish person looks at in that symbolism of life and thriving and all the things and the roots going deep inside and how deep they go and all that, but it all starts from a single seed. Yeah. And and that's the part where I'm looking at and going, you know, the kingdom of God or the reign of God, he's not he's not looking for an expectation of you have to have everything right. He's looking for the expectation of did you get one thing right? Yeah. Did you have a a seed of hope, of faith, of love? And let's then expand that. And you've talked about this, Jason, of the transformation part of it. You need to transform from the seed to the tree. Yeah. But there are there are parables and stories of God also cursing a tree and turning it to dust and fruit.

Layers Of Meaning In One Parable

SPEAKER_03 18:24

You know, the fig tree, the the fig tree. That the one of my favorite stories, you know, when Jesus walks past the fig tree and he's like, You're not bearing any fruit? Well, gone with you. And he like snaps his fingers at it. They come back the next day and it's gone. And yeah, I mean, the the the tree, it's not surprising that that era would be a very agricultural era, right? And they would have a lot of agricultural references. One of the things, the first time I read Matthew in my in my big gigantic ecumenical Bible, when I was done reading it, was I realized that there's a theme, particularly in Matthew, of lots of these, you know, seeds and growth and you know, the transformation and the sowing seeds and harvesting seeds and good fruits and bad fruits. And so I thought that was an interesting note, but I like I said f earlier on, is like I think it's really important that how many things that this can be alluding to. On one hand, this can be Jesus growing into a you know a religion. It can also be, like you said, in Daniel, the tree represented a nation. So it could be the Jewish people who are growing and then becoming a haven for other people, meaning those birds. It could be the thriving of an individual, even. I mean, I'm telling you, I was a person who I was a tree that was bearing bad fruits for many, many years. Um, but I had this the faith of a mustard seed, and all of a sudden the faith seed, the good seed, you know, overtook the bad seed, and it just like it does in a garden, right? It it ended up taking over that garden. It was an invasive species. Thank God it was an invasive species, and it killed out the other things that were in me, the other bad fruits that were coming for me, only to bear, I won't say good fruits, but better fruits at least. And and I think that there's just again, there's so many ways to look at this. And this is, man, parables, parables are we should do an episode just on all parables for what it's worth. But um I mean, parables at large, like I the well, look, the craziest thing is you can sit down and you can think you get it, and you can be really confident that it it it was right. You nailed it. I know what this is about. And then a year later, somebody else says one single thing and you're like, didn't get it at all. Yeah. Totally off, totally wrong. Need to look at that again. And and that's what I love about the parables. And I think that's why in Matthew 13 he says it's it's it's not the what did he say? Um it's because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven have been given to you, but not to them. Even the things that are given to you are going to be given to you differently over time. Yeah. I mean, there's, you know, I when I read this this year, I'll probably read it differently next year, and I'll probably read it five years differently or five years down the line again. And that that's the beauty of the parables, and and especially this one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

And I will add another layer to it, which is I always try to reverse things. And when you talk about man who has planted the seed, put Jesus into the ground, what he is saying is that mustard seed is gonna turn into that invasive plant. I am going to grow rapidly. I am going to do, he is saying all the things he's gonna do, and he does it. So Jesus follows through on what he says. What about when he plants the seed in us and what we do with that? And a lot of times we don't live up to our end of that parable as well, and going, we're starting from this small seed. We all want to grow, we all want to be this big seed, but we're stopping, we're inhibiting our own growth. And now what's happening is that fruit that we're not producing, that fig tree, all of a sudden we're going, man, is that me? Am I the fig tree who's not producing any good works, any good fruit? And and do I deserve to be boom, you're you're done. Because man planted God into the ground and he grew. What happens when God plants it into us? And what are we doing with it?

SPEAKER_04 22:05

Yeah, I was gonna I wanted to say that's a couple things I want to say, but so I the way I took it as the sower and the one planting it as man, because later on in Matthew 13, 37, when he talks about to explain about the weeds and stuff like that, it's It says the one who sowed the good seed is the son of man. So to me, I've taken that as Jesus is planting the seed in us, or planting the seed and letting that, letting his kingdom grow, letting the rain grow, right? He's he's setting out a new rain, and that was gonna as it starts small as a must of seed, it continues to grow. And I think all these parables, although this, although for a long time I believe what you guys are saying, which is and you could use it as way as a as an analogy, a seed small growing to bigger faith, right? A faith this small growing to bigger faith. Now that I'm reading this further and further, to me, it's it's definitely not that it's talking about the rain of God starting this small, and this is important. And as we read further into this growing to a tree as big and large, and going back to what you said before, David, as far as trees, you know, and being branches, it's it's it's a rain that's usually associated with like political powers, right? Especially in Daniel talking about King Nebuchadnezzar, but Ezekiel also talks about a tree and being this this you know this thing, this that overseen and creating a rest, creating uh abundance for other people, right? And what it is is saying in Ezekiel, which is kind of interesting, Ezekiel and Daniel is talks about that kingdom is gonna be destroyed, and then the kingdom that God is gonna place would be everlasting. And I think the kingdom is gonna be everlasting is what Jesus' kingdom, Jesus' reign leading forward, which I think is beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Even what you said, you know, God will plant good seeds in us, it goes further with what I say. Like, God will plant the good seed in us and we still mess it up. We plant bad seeds, making it God, and he still flourishes and turn I mean it just anytime I turn it around and go, What has God given me? He's given me a good seed, and what am I doing with it? Because he's not giving me the bad seed. He doesn't say he gives me a seed, he's actually giving us the good seed. And if we're not growing from it, if we're not showing our fruits from it, you know, if we're not attaching ourselves to, you know, the the root, the branch that he just all the things when you start talking about all the different, it's amazing he wasn't uh, you know, a farmer and he was a a you know carpenter or a stonemason because he had a lot of references also to plant life. Yeah. Um, but it it is I I feel sometimes like, all right, I'm not doing enough. You planted the good seed in me, and what am I doing with that?

Burial And Resurrection In The Seed

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Yeah. I mean, there there's a there's a part in a book I'm reading right now. I'm slightly obsessed with it. It's called The Pursuit of Holiness by Jerry Bridges. And right in the beginning, he starts out by talking about how the relationship between God and man is a partnership. And to sum it up, he's like a a farmer has to believe in God because he a farmer doesn't create the weather or the soil or the, you know, can't, you know, the amount of rain or the amount of sun or anything. That's God's job. God's job is to take care of the nutrients, the water supply, the the UV that it gets and all these things. But it is man's role in all of that to put the seeds in the right places and to plant them far enough apart and to water that, you know, and to and to tend them on a regular basis, you know, to go in there and knock off the bugs, and especially in those times, you know, we're not talking pesticides, but you know, to tend those plants and make sure that they grow strong if they need fertilizer, to add more fertilizer to them. But there's a there's this really intentional balance between God does all the major stuff and something will grow. Something will grow regardless. But how it how it ends up flourishing in one way or not flourishing in another has is very dependent on the role of the farmer and how much that farmer puts into it or doesn't put into it. And I think that's kind of where where I'm at in this conversation right now, David. I think that you know, we have all been planted a seed. And 2,000 years ago, you know, Jesus was a seed that was planted and he's growing. Um, and he's gonna grow in in those who have the seed planted in them, you know, aka the people who have heard the good news and so forth. But then it's it's up to us, right? Like I even again, I'm using me again, but at one point I knew all this stuff, but I didn't tend my garden very well, and I went a totally different direction and I bore bad fruits. And the and the and you know, but when I yeah, go ahead. No, no, no. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

I was gonna say, I think and the call is bigger than than just that. I think because as we're reading this parable as it continues on, let's not forget, it talks about the end of age and how it would be separated, how those seeds will be the harvest will be separated. Um the harvest will be sorted, right? Yeah, it'd be sorted out. And I think that's you know, that's big because what's happening is when you're sorted out to the being a bad seed, or not a bad seed, but a bad harvest, or or not good fish, you could say, you're gonna be sent to the gnashing of teeth. And it says here in Matthew, what is it, towards the end of Matthew 13, 49, you know, we'll be separated and the wicked would the big separate from the wicked and the righteousness. So the righteous. So I think it's a big call for us to realize that although we have been planted the seed, you're right. We have to, you know, attend to it. I think we have to do our part in it, and God will make it grow because we don't have the power of the water and the rain and stuff like that and the seasons. And hopefully we'll we'll be in the good, we'll be the good harvest rather than the bad.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I'll I'll kind of bring it around just to a positive note. Just for for, you know, I have a lot of conversations with people. I have a lot of conversations with people who feel like they are not where they're supposed to be in life, in a relationship, wherever it is. They are seeing, they are the the Jewish people who expect their expectation is that they're going to have this mighty visible power. And they overlook the tiny mustard seed that's in them. And I think that when they recognize that you don't need to have all that visible power, when you have that little mustard seed, that can grow. And I think a lot of people are in that spot as well sometimes where they feel like the expectation is not matching. But when I think about this and I'm looking at Jesus, and I'm one of the people in the crowd going, this doesn't match my expectation. And then you realize what Jesus is and what he does and how he spread and just how mighty it ended up being. Uh, I think that it's also hope for all of us that, like you said, Jason, if you're working with God, if you're doing the things you're supposed to be doing, if you are uh allowing killing your land inside and allowing that to grow, what is within you is way more powerful and way more visible than you think. Yeah. That was beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

I I couldn't couldn't say that better. David, why don't you close us out today?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Absolutely. I listen, we always appreciate you guys listening. If you can like, subscribe, all the different things, comment. We love to hear from you guys. But more than that, we hope this is encouraging to you. We'd love to hear about some of the things you'd love us to talk about on this show. We enjoy doing this. We enjoy you guys listening. So we hope you have a blessed day and we look forward to coming to you again next week. Talk to you then. Bye. Thanks. Bye.