Ep2: True Crime: The Devil on Trial

Join Amy and Dawn as they dive into "The Devil on Trial," where the case of Arne Cheyenne Johnson gets put under the magnifying glass. Was he possessed by a demon? Whose side are you on: Team Devil or Team Doubt? Let us know—we promise we won’t judge.

Transcript

Episode 2: The Devil On Trial

Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome To Me, where we talk about movies and shows that cover true crime, paranormal and horror. I am one of your hosts Dawn, I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I’m pretty well versed in the horror genre, especially those 80’s classics. A quick fun facts about me…I have a very extensive crystal collection. 

 Hello I'm Amy, I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. A few fun facts about me: I'm an empath, I collect old dolls and you know I've never flown on an airplane! Can you believe that? Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime so, here we are, Talk Gruesome To Me

 Hello and welcome to our very first episode! We are so excited to be here with you and what we're going to do is every two weeks we will put out an episode that's either True Crime paranormal or horror, so this week we will be starting with True Crime, then in two weeks you'll get Paranormal, and 2 weeks following that you'll get horror. And in between we’ll put out, as Amy calls it, a minisode that will be basically anything, so for now we're going to start out with True Crime! 

 This week's documentary we watched The Devil On Trial and let me tell you, it was actually a fantastic flick.It really was surprising, it was actually very informative. They had actual relatives, family members and I thought that it was actually a really good one to give you an inside look of what went on in the house and also I enjoyed the pictures that were added in as well. Only thing I wish they didn't zoom all the way they did at times. I wish they'd just kept them still right? Did you notice that? Yeah. Also the part that I forgot is, what we do is every time you'll get one of these three true crime, paranormal, or horror, we're going to watch either a documentary, a movie, or an episode and then we're going to discuss it. Absolutely yes. Forgot that part, so now you all know what we're doing (giggle). And The Devil On Trial was on Netflix and, I mean, they do really good content so you know, I pretty much almost always enjoy what I view on Netflix. I don't know, the one thing and we should probably say this before every episode, it's so hard to know the content that's true. I seriously read probably 10 articles and some of them were off by years. So we do our best. Obviously we do a lot of research, but we will do our best to repeat what we think is accurate, but sometimes that's going to be kind of hard based on what we're finding and maybe because this story involved the Warrens, maybe that's why there were so many articles or different shows, or you know…and then every time something is lost in translation. Right. I don’t know. It's just a lot out there yeah and so we did our best.  Also if you are listening to this and something that we say is wrong and you know, reach out and let us know because we would be glad to come back and correct that. Oh my gosh yeah, yeah, good call! Absolutely…we want to give accurate information, it’s just sometimes hard based on the internet. Absolutely. So I don't know, a lot of people may not even know the story, even though it seems like a bigger story and not all of the stories that we do are going to be big, like oh the Warrens covered it. We're going to do ones that are small that we want to bring to light and you know, ones that maybe don't have but one article online. We want to do small ones too. Sometimes I think that those are the most interesting. Just simply because a lot of people have not heard of those, I really feel that way and then also a lot of people I don't think realize that when you are watching The Conjuring movies, they think they're just made up movies and don't realize that there is stories behind those. So I kind of like the idea of us watching those and giving them the back stories and then maybe the opportunity to go watch them in the spots that we give them like we did like Netflix. Yeah. Exactly yeah. I mean we're, what we want to do is make sure that we're obviously putting out correct information but also get followers involved and get you watching these as well, especially those smaller stories. Absolutely, and I feel like we're, for the most part, we're using sites and stuff that most people do have access to, right, so if you want to you can go watch it from where we did. Just remember this particular story, there's a lot out there, so a lot, like it'll be easy to research, but maybe hard to pinpoint what's accurate. Absolutely. So the premise of what happened, there was a boy, his name was David Glatzel. He, and again, I saw some reports that say he was 11 and some that said he was 12. Same. So I'm not exactly sure which is accurate, but during 1980, he went to a house that his sister was going to rent and they were there to clean out the house. And he had an experience and he described it in The Devil On Trial and basically was, something knocked him over and sort of took over his body, basically. And it wasn't something immediate where he went home and was like “baaaa”. It took some time. And it just, shit started going downhill from there. Well he seen that apparition up there in that master bedroom and then he had went home and seen the apparition for the second time and it had kind of progressed. I would say, or that's maybe what I would call it, it progressed to have hooves and hair or such, kind of, I guess maybe make one think that it was resembling the devil. Right. You know, that's what I would get if I was a little 11 12-year-old, like we said that ages to be debated, sitting there in my bed and looking at this little crazy dude with hooves and, you know, and then I've got the where messages come and I can't imagine. And Black eyes…he said it had black eyes like coal. Yes, yes. And the good thing about The Devil On Trial, like Amy said, these are accurate. Like all the family members are on there. Not the sister because unfortunately she passed away, but his brothers. This is, that show is going to be the most accurate place where you can get the information. Right. And they also have the skeptical side, which is appreciated because we are, we both, you know we do like to debunk and we are up for skeptical sides. I mean you've got to be. Absolutely. And I will also say we came out strong with some devil stuff for our first few episodes because I feel like every time, and listen, paranormal investigating became really popular with Ghost Adventures and some of the Ghost Hunters, some of those shows, but with that comes, sort of the scare factor. And so all you ever hear, even if you're live at a cemetery, “oh you're going to get possessed” or “there's going to be demons” or  “there's going to be a devil”. Right. And Amy and I both believe that those are rare. Right. Oh we're just going to put that out there right now. We're not here to like, gas anyone up, or we don't, we're not like “oh there's a demon” but because other people are, we wanted to come out strong our first couple of episodes here and just nip that. And this one, this case does have enough to make you take a second look. Right. I just really, when you said this, I was like “okay yeah I can get down with that and I'll watch it a second time”. I'm ready to go let's go. Right. I had watched it before as well but, you know, it's not a terrible story and listen I'm still, I'm, I call myself an open skeptic and I know like with your investigations you've gotten way more, so I've had a couple of things on mine but I still haven't had that major thing. So I'm always on this podcast, more than Amy, I'm always going to be kind of like the mmmmmm I don't know. Right. I'm not so sure. Right. But with this story, Chris Holt who is the director, he said he interviewed you know David. He interviewed his brother Alan and their stories never wavered. He said he believes them. They never changed their stories, so you know, there's got to be some validity to that. I can’t, I can't deny that. I don't know, I mean you want to know the one, like some of the stuff I was kind of like ehhh, but when you have the sheriff on the show  justThe Devil On Trial set there and say that Lorraine Warren come to him before she left town and said this is going on, you know it's already happened, and I see someone losing their life by a knife. Yeah. Right there you're just like okay, because even though he said that he did not really, I guess, fall into that kind of stuff, I really do believe after he heard that and then what happened he was a 100% believer.Right. Then so I don't know. That was the one thing that I was like man I agree. I can’t, I mean, again, there’s validity to that. Yeah. You can’t debate that. How do you you know, it's just like, how do you debate that? Yeah, right. Back to the story, so David he's 11 or 12, he has these apperitions and then he starts having possession like symptoms where, and the cool thing about The Devil On Trial, they have photos and audio. Absolutely, yes. Which I love!  Oh man, I'm such a fan of real audio, video stills, whatever I can get in my viewing. I'm all about that and,and eventually I want to work our way to doing that. Yes, absolutely. Okay we're all in. And then the little elevator music (Amy humming and dancing). .. stay tuned…all right I'm done. He starts, and you can hear this audio, he's using a lot of profanity, calling his mom lots of names, that kind of thing. After that there was his sister Debbie…she's the one who was renting that house where he went and he initially had that first experience. And from what I read, again this is, I saw a couple of different ages, but the one I saw the most said she was 26 at the time. Her fiance who was named Arnie Cheyenne Johnson was 19 at the time…she's, she's kind of a cougar. And you know the cute thing, I was kind of trying to pull back even further into their story, they were kind of friends and then he was kind of like “hey Debbie” kind of seeing you over there and he asked her out and she said yes. And then it was just over from there. Isn't that the cutest story? Cute. I didn't see that article. Yes I love that, yeah, I just love that. And then what you see on the documentary, I'm just like her love was so real for that man, and her belief in, her trust in him was absolutely. Yes. You want Debbie Glatzel on your side. When it comes to that kind of love, like everybody needs a Debbie Glatzel. Yes, she's ride or die for sure. God rest her soul. She was dating Arnie, so we have Debbie and Arnie, and they're doing all of these episodes with David and I think, was it, was it Debbie? One of them saw the Warrens on a TV show. Judy the mother and she had actually attended a conference where they were speaking live at before that, and she decided to reach out to them afterwards. Because I'm assuming that she had just seen them and had that much belief in them. Right. And I mean, who else are you going to reach out to when all that's going on, you know, in 1980. They were pretty much it back then. Yeah. And a lot of people looked at you like you were absolutely nuts when you started talking about that stuff. So I mean let's call the Warrens. And another thing, it really struck me, is like back then think of this, they,  she could actually just go to her kitchen and grab the phone with the cord and look in the phone book, and she was like ring ring ring (Dawn laughing) and Lorraine was like “well hello”  “is this Lorraine” and she was like “yes dear” (both laughing). I mean that's so funny. But it was so easy just to reach out then. Yeah and I don't know if their first move had been going to a priest. Again in 1980, I don't know maybe they had. They did have the home blessed.  Maybe they would have been like “you’re nuts”, but not so specific as to what was going on with David to say what he was saying and what he was doing. And I don't know, in the '80s was, I mean we had the Exorcist already, but. And Poltergiest. I don't know how accepting. Yeah. Maybe the Catholic Church would have been like “sure we will bless your house but this is ridiculous”. I don't know. So who do you go to in 1980? The Warrens. Especially, you, I don't think you would want to go to the Catholic church without definite proof and something to back you . For sure. Or someone like the Warrens. Because I mean that's serious talking you know. Yeah. So I totally see how having somebody like the Warrens would be a lot easier to get through to the Catholics, because you don't want the Catholic priest calling the mental health facility (laughing). Yeah it's, these people might just have some mental issues, I don't know. It's just become more accepted or I might even use the word popular. I don't know, it's just become. I agree. It's more recognized. Absolutely yes, I agree. So then the Warrens come in and that’s where a lot of this footage comes from. It's from the Warrens recording what was going on in the house. And so and I don't want to give away too much. I mean obviously there are going to be spoilers. If you've never seen the show, so if you want to watch the show and then come back and listen, that might be a good idea if you're worried about that. So I don't know how much we want to say. I’m ready to spoil it all. Then maybe they’ll definitely want to watch it. Ready to spoil it baby (both laughing). Do it. Oh tell them everything that happened with David. Spill it. Because honestly, you know how we have our interest in True Crime, I can listen to a 20/20 episode at work and then watch it on TV and it's totally different. I don't mind whatsoever. That’s true. I say spill the tea. I want to know, I want to know, you want to know, and let's give everybody what we know. So there were points where he was getting physically violent as well while screaming, I don't know, how like, I mean, what we saw on Netflix was, you know, he was calling her, his mom mostly, a bitch and different things like calling her a pig or a dickhead. Right. Some of it i was like “I didn’t even know they talked like that in the 80’s” (laughing). I don't know I thought profanity evolved since then but. Maybe not. Because they have recordings of this 11 - 12 year old boy is saying this stuff in 1980. Right. So I mean maybe who knew, maybe we're still speaking the same language? Still the same foul mouthed talk they was speaking in the 80’s. If you have children don't let them listen to what I'm going to say. I feel like the one word that he said that I was like “oh okay 1980 ‘cocksucker’”. I was like okay, that one surprised me. I don't know why. I don't know what I'm thinking like. I was just surprised that that 11 or 12 year old boy is using that word in 1980. Yeah I mean it's definitely okay and in the recordings could he have really made his voice sound like that? Do you think? What’s your opinion? I want to know what you think, let's pick your mind. “I don't know” (in a growl). Did I do it? “I don't know cocksucker” (in a growl). (both laughing) No because I can still hear your tone in there. Oh I really can't. He definitely sounded different. He didn’t sound like a 12 or 11 year old. No. So I don't know but I don't “Amy” (in a growl).  I still hear you ( Dawn laughing). Sorry I'm going to be doing that for a week. Now if you talk to me back in the 80s,  I thought I had the best prank call voice (Dawn laughing). “Amy” (in a growl). Okay well so I mean I was thinking that when I was watching the show because I rewatched it last night…I was thinking that. Like how it sounds so drastically different than his voice, I'm sure, as an 11 or 12 year old. Right. How do you fake that? I don't know. Yeah and I couldn't, the contorting, we didn't get to see the actual videos of that, which I'm sure that if what they did have on those videos, that they say if that's on there that's probably not something that you would want to show the general public. Amy, you know, so unless you're me and you have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and you can turn your body inside out like this (Dawn bending her hands backwards).  Did he really look like he did? Fair question. I don’t know. Like I mean can you tell maybe? I don’t know. No. Like when somebody like moves? Maybe. I mean, a little. It just depends. Like you know I can bend my fingers back like. And of course I didn't watch his hands. I didn't either. I just saw. Gotcha. Okay okay fair enough. But you're right, you're right. I'm just a debunker. And I mean could he have more strength than an average 11 to 12 year old?  Sure he wasn't a small child. Right. So I mean yeah you could go in it and you could look at it and you can debunk it you know and in those terms, absolutely, yes.  definitely and that's what we're here for (giggle). Yeah so I mean yeah, I could, I could sit down and I could talk with somebody on those on those points. I could, and that also ties into something that we will I'm sure touch on later, and that is some of Carl's skepticism. Right. So you know, we'll touch on that a little bit later to the podcast but that does, like what we're speaking about, you know, he wasn't a small child you'll see. Right. Don't don't leave us, we'll get there. Alan was present during a lot of this. Yes. When it was you know, the Warrens would come and they were doing these recordings. And his brother Alan is on the show and supports everything David says. Absolutely. And he believes that he was possessed. And we'll talk about in a few minutes what happened in the end, but his brother Alan is supportive and believes him. Again he was there, hard to debate someone that was there. And yes when he spoke about certain instances like the little bit of fear that he let off, you could tell that was genuine I think. Him and David both I think look like they were genuinely still affected by this. Yeah yeah…and I  also like that, I think it was David, he said “I've never talked about this before”. I feel skeptical when someone goes on 15 shows. Right. Then I feel like maybe it's about the money, I don't know. But this is the only show that they said that they have really participated in, and in fact, he said he doesn't even publicly discuss this at all.  And the saddest part is where it has torn them all apart. Right. Something happened, you know, you seem off like at least two of them, upset and nearly in tears because the family is torn apart now. Yeah. So regardless of what, you know, if you want to believe the story or you don't, something happened in that home to tear a family apart and I don't think it was just the Warrens coming to give them a visit. Yeah, something, I mean, regardless of whether it was true or I don't know, I mean, it was still, let's go, if it was true, it was probably incredibly traumatic for every single one of them. Absolutely. So that would make sense. Like I could totally see that tearing a family apart, just because of the trauma. You know. People deal with trauma differently. Some people want to talk about it, some people don't. It's just, if it happened and it's real, I totally can see how that would destroy a family. Absolutely and when you hear the parts talking about the dad this, the dad that, Dad didn't believe, dad dad dad, dad didn't stay around for much of this. He would stay at work. He would be in the other room. He would be outside tinkering around with his truck working on it. And back in the '80s, a man was raised a man is a man, and if you’re upset, if you're scared, what you don't do is sit down and cry, or you don't run. You're going to lash out at those around you. So I can't speak on his actions either because I understand, you know, the difference. I just do, so I can't speak on how he acted as well, so I don't know what was going through his head. I mean on the flip side of that, if it was faked, maybe some of them were supportive and some of them weren't and that's what tore them apart you know what I mean? Either way, I could see either scenario and how it affected the family in the way that it did, which is unfortunate. Absolutely. I don't know, is ther really anything else to go into about the actual possession and you know what happened outside of him, like the contorting the changing the voice the yelling profanities getting physical? I really do think bringing up the fact that he felt watched all the time and knew that something was coming, and it seemed like after the moments that the happening, the experience, whatever you want to call it, that he had upstairs in that master bedroom with the waterbed, whatever happened in there opened up something within him and he was able to sense things. And then you hear at the end, even from his own mouth, that he had something of possibly a psychic premonition of some sort of psychic event or premonition. So something it seems did happen up there and opened him up it feels like to me. Because like Amy said, one of the things that he talked about in the documentary was that he could see this figure looking inside sometimes. And he just knew it’s coming, it's coming. Imagine Judy, I don't know how I feel about Judy, bless her, bless her. I don't know. I don't, I'm not saying that, I'm not hating on her whatsoever, but imagine you are asleep in the middle of the night and your 11 - 12 year old…remember that still up for debate what age he was, is in his bedroom screaming at the top of his lungs demons are coming after him. No big deal (Dawn laughing). He's had a long day, just go lay down and rest David. Hey, see you in the morning. I mean I feel like that would be pretty freaky. And it wasn't just a one-time thing. This was nightly, what maybe 2 to 3 days after he had come home, for two or three nights after he'd come home from that house. I don't know, I just feel like, just wild. I almost did that last night because I never remember my dreams, ever, but last night was one of like once a year I remember. I was on vacation with my whole family including my dad who's no longer here. Awww.  But we were on vacation and all these spiders kept coming down from the ceiling and I was screaming like that (laughing). Yay! Yeah. I spend a lot of nights with my momma and I think that's really weird. That's so weird to me. I don't think it's weird. It's like almost every night. I mean mine probably is too, I just don't remember.  I just remember mine. Yeah. I guess so. Screaming in the middle of the night is probably really unpleasant by your child I would imagine. Absolutely. I don't know. Absolutely I agree. And what all of this emotion that's being stirred up by these events, the crying, the screaming, and you have a father that you don't show that kind of stuff, and we all know that you had the brothers Carl and what was the other brother’s name? Alan.  Alan, yes. You had Carl and Alan, who like to go outside. They learn from their father how to work on vehicles, how to do thi, do that. We all know that David he kind of stayed inside and didn't like to really get dirty and would rather bake and cook with his mother. So he's probably a little more emotional because the other two are spending a lot of time but their father. Now you have him crying, screaming, having mother upset, she's, you know, fretting. But you can just see the whole picture and what he's going to totally shut down and he's going to become hateful because I've seen it happen with a lot of the older generation of men that do not like emotion. Right. So that made, I'm not going to judge him because that could be what maybe happened, I don't know. It just makes sense to me and also as you're saying that it made me think that what we hear a lot of, and this is from mediums mostly but, and I guess like psychics too, but if there is negativity swirling around, so like the dad is mad at the situation and doesn't believe it, and there's fighting within the home, and all that, it amps up whatever is going on. It feeds it. Yes. I mean if we're, if we're going with that theory of this was real and this was a possession, I am sure the internal fighting just was like candy to whatever that was. Oh yeah it was a 7 course meal, what are you talking about. Right. I mean it had all the fixings, drag the burger through the garden, whatever you need to do make some dessert. We're going. It's ready, like it, everything, the whole. And another thing I would love to know…I was just sitting here thinking about it. What happened in that house that Debbie and Arne, you know what I'm saying, were getting ready to move into whatever. What happened there? It’s just wild. This story makes your mind go in so many different places. Why was that even there in the first place if it was there? With David something happened. Did David have some abilities to begin with? Maybe but also obviously if you talk to anyone who is into this kind of thing they'll say that kids are more susceptible. Absolutely. So maybe it's just his age? I don't know. Absolutely. He was the youngest. He was a little baby.  But it would be interesting to try to get the address and try to do some research. Was there a murder there? Was there, a lot of these places you know, they're on like Battlegrounds or whatever. So it would be interesting to research the location and see. Absolutely. Maybe we can do a minisode on that? Ohhhh minisode, minisode. Let's go. That's a good idea. Everything paranormal or whatever starts with history so I am here for a minisode of the history of that house. Yeah. Amy, I failed American history. That’s OK. It’s not my strong suit. You’re not going to be looking at things that you’re not interested in. So you're good. It has it has a whole new purpose for me.  Absolutely. The research aspect of it.  So it's okay, it's okay that I failed history, it's fine. We're not going to hold it against you. Yes thank you. So then he's, they're having all these issues, he's under whatever. And they're recording all this and it's volatile and they're fighting within the house. As Amy mentioned, the dad did not believe and neither did the oldest brother Carl. We can talk more about Carl but they didn't go a ton into the dad outside of saying he didn't believe it. He thought the Warrens were absurd and he at one point came in and I don't remember, did he say he hit him? Yes, he was down on the floor and doing his kicking and screaming, and you know his Mom was holding him, trying to hold him down and calm him down, and he started screaming at her. I can't remember what he said but it was very very vulgar. I guess his dad was in the other room and was like “what did he just say’, he had heard enough. He was done. He takes off in there, he grabs him up and he smacks him across the face. And Carl said and then the devil sit down and shut up and I was like (giggle). And again coming from the view of being a skeptic, why then, if it were possession, why did he shut up? Why didn't that make, leave it, like why didn't he throw his dad across the room or, I don't know, I wasn't there. I don't know. Yeah these are questions that probably everyone has. That stuck with me though. It just kind seems like if, I don't remember the father's name, do you? Actually I don't. It’s one of the names that I didn't write down. He didn’t spend a whole lot of time, you know in the story because he distanced himself so much is what as far as having two jobs while all this was going on just to stay away. But I kind of feel like Carl was dad's boy, like kind of ripped from the same cloth. Maybe Alan and David were more like the mother even though Alan did prefer to stay outside with his dad more. Maybe they kind of got, you know maybe split up in personalities that just, that kind of struck me as well too. Well it could have been just a simple fact of Carl's the oldest and has more in common with his dad, who knows. And maybe just more like his dad, exposed to his dad. Right. I agree. So who knows, maybe Carl and his dad would sit and talk about how ridiculous is, like we don't know that they didn't talk about that and the show, so you know, it is interesting that those are the two that were the closest but also were debating that this was real or not. Carl, I guess we can, we can go into that too. So we talked about the dad and he didn't believe. He…this happened, where the dad yelled and got physical and you know, was like “no more” and it stopped in the moment. And Carl was on the show, they interviewed him. And I don't know that there's a lot to say other than he didn't believe it. He thought that the only reason that this was going on was for the money and he also believed that the Warrens screwed over the parents and didn't pay them I guess out of book money. They wrote a book about this case and so he thought it was all about the money and that the Warrens screwed over the family. What did he say? The family ended up getting $4,000 and something dollars and the Warrens got like 80,000? And then they had told David before that that he was going to be a very rich little boy. I believe that was, that am I remembering that correctly? Yes, well that's, I think from the show again. In online research it was all over the place.  I think I'm probably going to go ahead and stick with Netflix because you actually had the real family members on there.  Fully on board with that. So you know Carl and dad didn't believe it and Carl specifically thought that the Warrens just did it for the money. Yeah because he said that the Warrens would come over after dark, they grabbed their cameras and David would start flashing and wailing and flapping around and yelling cuss words and the show would begin. So you know, you have like a, like we said, the skeptical look and then you've got the ones who say they experienced it. It was real. And I do like that you brought up in the beginning the sheriff or the police officer or whoever it was because those, police officers, sheriffs, whoever…they aren’t typically to into the Paranormal and possessions or whatever. So I do tend to lean into listening more to like, if a, if one of those people like a cop says this happened, only because of that fact. That’s not typical cop thinking. Right. And the fact that you, the priest never mentioned it again, after they weren't needed for their service to testify, and so they just never spoke about it again. I mean to me it feels like if their name was being drug through the mud by all this false story would they speak up? I would think so. You’d think. Why would they want to be associated with something that wasn't real? I don’t know. That was another one of my thankings too. Correct. Thankings, thinkings, thankings (laughing at Amy’s country accent). I love it. Moving into then the incident. So on, I wrote this date down, it's here somewhere. It was in, let me find the date. It was in 1981. So this had gone on for months. February 16th 1981. Correct. That was the incident. So that day, and again I don't know how many times we're going to say this, there's debate on the internet about what happened this day, so we're just going to do our best here. Oh we just totally skipped over the exorcism. Oh, that's important. Very important (laughing). Go for it. Okay sorry! Like I said, you know we both have ADHD so sometimes you might have to bear with us, but back on track. I was like “wait”. Very important part. The Warrens come in, they did their recording, they did all of their, I guess, research, whatever they needed to do. They took their pictures…they had all their proof that they needed to present to the Catholic priest. They did get them on board with doing the exorcism and they said that up in the church, I do believe it was Arne Cheyenne Johnson, Debbie Glatzel, Judy Glatzel and Alan Glatzel attended the exorcism along with the priest. And that was it wasn't it? And the Warrens, yeah, and so they went through their whole little ordeal. They said that David was yelling out obscenities, his body was twisted and turning and contorted in ways that they did not think that it was possible for him to actually bend in. He at one point was being choked, trying to pull away from his throat, his lips , turned blue. The boy could not breathe. They were scared to death, his mother I'm sure, it was in complete panic. Eventually they were just scared that he was going to pass away, lose his life from this, which they had been warned when they walked in that was a possibility this could get very very violent and ultimately he could lose his life. Well Arne had been there through his side the whole time, had been helping holding down and he had had enough. He grabbed up David and he said to the, he just completely challenged the demons. He said mess with me, leave this boy alone. I'm not quoting his exact words but that was basically what he said. At that point it is documented that David fell back flew back and he seemed to be exorcised. Arne Cheyenne Johnson did the same and all the sudden Lorraine Warren was like ah negative, you do not challenge a demon. You do not. And I'm assuming between then and I'm going to guess the next day, because what did they scoot out 2 to 3 days after the exorcism? They went back to their home in Connecticut? Yeah but he wasn’t having problems from what I remember for a few months. No, he was completely fine he thought I’m sure “don’t worry about this”. But in that time before they left to go back to Connecticut to their home, she had went to the Sheriff's Office like I mentioned in the beginning, and then she was like you know what is just happened and that was also documented very very very very very very very thoroughly and many times, that there was paranormal happenings going on at this house, this location. There had been a lot of stuff going on and a lot of calls. A lot of, I'm assuming that they, the police spoke with the Warrens. The Warrens and also the priest on property, so they had that in documentation too. So they are knowing what's going on and Lorraine cannot stand it. She cannot go home without letting the Sheriff's Office know what she is seeing. She walks in and she lets them know I see a knife and I see someone losing their life between the Johnson and the Glatzel family. The cop, I don't believe he really, I don't believe he took it with a grain of salt. I think he held on to it in the back of his head. I think he was you know kind of waiting and seeing hopefully that didn't happen, and they wanted them to be aware to keep an extra eye on it and like you said, it was several months later bam tragedy. Yep. Changed their lives forever, just when they thought it was over. Exactly they thought okay we're in the clear and then February 16th 1981 happens and this is what I'm going to go with because this is what I found the most online. So Arne who's 19, Debbie his fiance is 26, Debbie is David’s sister, Debbie's cousin Mary Who is young she was 9, and then a man named Alan Bono who was Debbie's employer and her landlord. She worked at a dog kennel. She was a groomer. So they all were out doing whatever and Alan was drinking during the day and got overly intoxicated. Now from what I read he got a little aggressive with Mary the 9-year-old and grabbed her and then that's when Arne stepped in and stabbed Alan four times, and he unfortunately passed away. Yes. Then we fast forward to Arne and they catch him. There's there's a whole scene in there that's pretty cool that I don't want to spoil but. I thought we were spoiling all the tea. I know, but. OK, alright (laughing). Let’s save something because I thought that was a great scene. Oh yeah, it was. So they catch Arne and he says he doesn't know what happened, he has zero recall. “I didn't kill him. That guy's my friend. What are you talking about? I just left him”, yeah. Then eventually he gets a lawyer and his lawyer says that he was possessed. So the thinking is when he yelled at the church during the exorcism and said you know, leave David alone and take me, the thinking is that whatever it was jumped into into Arne and then that night whatever that was amped up and was responsible for the killing of Alan. I don't know if there's anything else about that night outside of the trial started in November. Obviously it aired in a lot of news publications because you're trying to claim you killed someone because you are possessed. Right. So it was a popular case at the time and I like how the lawyer had actually researched that as being a reason for the passing of someone, because the individual is possessed by devil. So they did know that it was capable of getting away or I guess in the very least lower sentence by using that plea so I did find that interesting. And I mean because you can't, you can't argue that Arnie did it right, no. Because they had witnesses and one of them is your love, cuz we've done talked about that love. Get you a Debbie Glatzel. Yeah (laughing). It wasn't any question of did he do this. It was, was it him or was it something inside of him? Aand so he went to trial in November and he, instead of first degree murder, he was charged with first degree manslaughter which was a 10 to 20 year sentence. So he went to prison and after 4 years and 11 months he was released based off of good behavior. And I will add just as a side note, it's not important to the story, but the year prior when he was in jail in 1985 Debbie and Arne they were married. That is important. Is it? Yes that’s very important. OK. Because we highlighted their love. Well okay I mean that is so touching. Like she's stuck like she put her life on hold because she believed in this man so much. Like if all this was a lie and he really did kill this man why, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah and then another point I did want to bring up is they did question whether possibly Debbie and Alan were having an affair. That was brought up into speculation and Debbie did admit that they did date in the past but all that was water under the bridge. Now they were just friends and he was her employer and the apartment did come with the position, the job that she did have because I'm assuming since it was a kennel she was a groomer. She probably did go down, take the animals out there in the kennel and care for them, give them food, water. So that is probably why they did need a live-in. So that makes perfect sense for the apartment to come with the position and it's just, you got alcohol, you have the demonic possession that we have discussed and it’s a no brainer, it's not going to end good. It's going to change life. And to your point, the wedding was important because it proves how much she believed in this story. Yeah, you know because when he told her, you know, go ahead and go, she could have went ahead and just found somebody else and moved on. No, 4 years isn't a lot of time, but it is. It is. Well it's almost five. Yeah you're right, a month shy of 5. It’s a lot of time. It would have been easy when he went to jail just to be like okay we're done. He had full support of Judy, he had full support of David. I mean they said Judy was completely devastated when the guilty plea came. So I mean he just had some, I mean let's not forget the fact that Alan Bono lost his life. Correct. It happened, it should not have happened and yes Arne is responsible. Right, yeah. And may you rest in peace Alan. You know, I don't know what happened that night. It should have never happened but I don't want to go any further without saying that. This shouldn't have happened, whether I do believe that there was some sort of demonic possession or other world happenings you know, going on. It shouldn't have happened and you have you have, you can't forget that, you know. And I like the point that I don't believe Arne ever did. Yeah. He never forgot that, I don't feel. No and you, I mean he was on the show as well and you can tell he definitely feels bad. Absolutely. He's he's not casual about It by any means. No. And I know that this does not, don't, okay we're we're going to do True Crime…this does not mean anything at all, but he didn't look like somebody just, because I'm a bad person. Yeah you know what I'm saying? And I mean I know you can't judge a book by its cover I know that. Whether that's good or bad but I don't know, he just didn't strike me as that energy. Yeah, they also, just add to them getting married in 1985, They stayed married until 2021 when Debbie passed away. Right. You know I don't think he's remarried, right? Just to add that. I mean, he didn’t say and I didn’t see that online. I didn't notice, I did look for ring and I did not see a ring. And that does not mean anything, some people don't wear a ring, but I did notice there's no ring. So yeah and he's, I think I estimated I think he's around 58 now. Yeah because they was not 100% sure, what was they saying? They thought he was born in ‘62? I don’t know I missed that part. Yeah. They was not sure of his birthday.Them being married all that time I feel like really just shows how much she supported him and believes him and believed David. Right and it's not like they just met and she is still head over heels and they had this whirlwind love affair. They were friends before they started dating. So I mean they known each other for several years by this time, you know? Yeah that was another thing that struck me. I don't know, I mean I'm on the fence. I don't, I don't know, I don't know.Do we want to rate it? The documentary? Yeah! Absolutely! What do you think out of a 10? We're going to start when we do our ratings, we're going to rate everything that we watch or discuss here, you know whatever case, I think we're going to go through, what did we decide? 1 through 10? or do we want to go 0 through 10? Yeah! Let’s go 0 through 10. For this documentary The Devil On Trial on Netflix, I'm going to give it a good solid 8. (gasp) That’s what I was I was going to say! I wish they had not done all this stuff with the pictures, I didn't like all that. I wanted to see the pictures, and what else could, I'd like to see maybe a little more footage because I feel like they could have had, they had the permission to get some of that, more that stuff maybe. So yeah other than that I loved it I just wanted to see more. You can always want to see more though. I gave it an 8.I did 8, which I think is a good score, because of the fact that they interviewed the real people. Absolutely. That was my thing, yeah. Which made me almost want to say 9, just because that's not disputable, so I mean I probably does deserve a 9. But I just feel like there's a little bit more than I'd like to have known. Yeah 8.5 Yeah, okay 8.5. Final answer! That’s ridiculous. Yeah, I don't know I enjoyed it though. I enjoyed it a lot. Yes. When you said that I was like let's go! Yeah so everyone watch The Devil On Triall on Netflix, if you have it. You better let us know what you think. Yes. All of our socials are Talk Gruesome To Me across the board. You can get ahold of us if you have any stories, questions, Anything to send in. Concerns. Yes. Concerns most definitely, especially if you have anything that we have got wrong because like we said there's so much information out there, so Oh absolutely yes please correct is if we arw wrong. We are not like that. We are just human, we make mistakes. So I promise if I ever lie to you it's not because I meant to, it’s because I didn't know no better. I'm not allowed to lie because I have trust, honesty and f you on my stomach, tattooed. Oh really? love it! So if you're not being honest and trustworthy f you only it says “fuck” it doesn’t say “f”. (laughing) Love it! We said in our intro there's going to be bad words. I barely said any though so I actually did really good not swearing. And you know what? We did not fumble. No! This whole thing. I'm kind of disappointed I didn't burp, maybe next time. And next time in 2 weeks we will be covering paranormal. And for this segment of all three the True Crime, paranormal and horror, iit kind of all ties together. It's not always going to be like that but this time it is. The next one in two weeks will be paranormal and then in between in one week minisode! Yay! Dun dun dun Thank you everyone and yeah, enjoy the the documentary if you have Netflix if not check out online because here’s a lot of info. Go watch it, yeah. I mean, come on, 8.5 out of 10. Recommend it. Go for it! And listen, not everyone has Netflix, there’s plenty of articles out there you can find. So hopefully our recap helped you if you don’t have Netflix. But thank you and we’ll see you in a week! Bye guys! Bye!

 Outro: Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. Keep on the lookout for our next episode and stay Gruesome!