Ep27: Minisode: Dorothy Stratten

Join Amy and Dawn as they chat about the dark and haunting story of Dorothy Stratten, the Playboy Bunny whose promising future ended in shocking tragedy.

Transcript

Welcome in! This week, we're coming to you with another minisode, and we are covering Dorothy Stratton. Most of you, I'm sure, know who this beautiful woman is, and how her tragic story went.

This is one that‚ I was very, very excited to cover, actually.

Yeah, I regularly go see her grave, so I definitely wanted to cover this one.

Yeah, she, no telling what she could have done. If her life wasn't cut as short as it was. I just‚ really loved the fact of she was just pure innocence, stuck right in the middle of Hollywood, just That's all she was.

And we're gonna get going.

At such a young age, she was only 20. Sucks.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that is‚ That's nothing.

Yeah, she might have done a few more things than the average person, but‚ She was able to live.

No, and she was on such a good path in starting to do acting roles, so it just sucks.

Right. Yeah, I even went as far as to watch They All Laughed.

Um. I can't say that I really got into the movie and loved it, but she did a really good job. I thought she was cute as a button, and I liked it.

I guess for what the elder movie was? I don't know. What, have you watched that movie?

No, I haven't seen it.

I went ahead and watched that, found it on YouTube. Yeah, I found it on YouTube, and‚ I just wanted to, I guess, see her‚Ķ do a role, be an actress, and see what she really wanted to do, and how she‚Ķ

Her mannerisms, how she spoke, just‚ watch her. So that kind of just was‚Ķ Another way to look at her, I guess, instead of pulling up Google and looking at some of her photos, and looking at the other side of her.

Yeah, yeah, I don't know why I didn't even think to watch something that she was in.

I want to watch that Star 80, too. I think I found it for $3.99, where I can rent it, so I want to watch that, too. That's gonna be another one that I get here pretty soon and sit down with. As soon as I have time to sit down and watch something. You know how that is. We've both been super busy here lately

Yeah, report back after you watch it.

Oh, it definitely will. But I guess we're ready to go ahead and get into the story of Dorothy Stratton. This is, like I said, a minisode, and We are just super excited to bring you her story. Even though it's tragic,

 Agree.

10:45:57 Born Dorothy Ruth Hoogstraten on February 28, 1960 in Vancouver, Canada, she was the daughter of Dutch immigrant parents Simon and Nellie Hoogstraten. Dorothy had a brother, John, and a sister, Louise.

10:46:12 She was known by classmates as sweet and kind. The girl-next-door type who fit in well, but she didn't really fit in with the sports crowd. Instead, she hung out with the cooler, more artistic type.

To help support herself, she took a part-time job at a Dairy Queen, the same place that would lead to her fateful meeting with Paul Snyder.

Now, at 17, while working at the Dairy Queen in 1977, she'd caught the eye of Paul Snyder, a 26-year-old nightclub promoter and pimp. He was characterized by his flashy style and shady background. He persuaded her to pose nude, and even resorted to I'm paying my life.

Okay. Because I don't. Okay.

I know where to go. I know where to go. I do. He persuaded her to pose, dude.

Okay, perfect.

He persuaded her to pose nude, and even resorted to forging her mother's signature on release forms to submit Playboys photos to the 25th anniversary Great Playmate Hunt, and that was in 1978.

Though initially shot Dorothy's beauty and poise eventually won her Miss August of 1979.

Okay, now back to Paul Snyder. He was her self-appointed manager, stylist, and now he's her fiance. He was right beside her, though Dorothy had one attention for her natural beauty, and gentle demeanor, Paul had orchestrated all of that.

He was behind the camera submitting her photos, booking her flights. He made sure she had an outfit that turns heads. Dorothy was the face, and he was the machine behind it. At first, that arrangement, it did, it seemed to work, but as we're gonna see.

That's not the way it ended. They got a modest apartment near a West Hollywood, and she began working at the Century City Playboy Club. Now, she was wearing the bunny costume at night, and while spending the day on photo shoots and auditions, so it was kind of the night and day was totally

different. She impressed everyone, photographers, producers, even Hugh Hefner himself, her humility set her apart from other centerfold hopefuls.

She was poised, but quiet, respectful, but undeniably. Let me speak. Luminous.

In June of 1979, barely a year after her arrival in LA, Dorothy and Paul got married in a small Las Vegas ceremony.

But beneath the glamorous rise was a relationship built on control.

Snyder was not well-liked in Dorothy's circle, and at the Playboy Mansion, he was considered obnoxious and an opportunist.

Nicknamed The Hustler, Hefner's protective band of the girls, Snyder was banned from the mansion after several complaints from staff and playmates. They didn't want any of his type around that place. According to accounts from former Playboy staff and other models, Snyder kind of gave off a bad feeling. He was very possessive of Dorothy, always within arm's reach, and always speaking to her. His influence over her began to raise red flags. He would choose her clothes, he oversaw her schedule, he tried to negotiate on her behalf, but without any of her consent.

While Dorothy star was rising, Paul's grip was tightening. He saw her not as a partner, but more so as a product, his product. A means to something he could never achieve himself, and that would be the fame, money, and admiration of others.

Behind closed doors, their relationship was filled with tension. Dorothy had started to pull away emotionally, and she confided in friends and also with Playboy stuff that she felt overwhelmed that Paul was way too much for her. He wanted to open a gym with her money, he pressured her to pose for more explicit shoots, he obsessed over how much time she spent at the mansion or on a set when she was working. As Dorothy gained dependence, Paul grew more desperate.

Yeah.

By the end of 1979, she was working longer hours, booking roles in TV and films, and spending more time at the Playboy Mansion on‚off and on location.

Paul was unable to work legally in the U.S. Due to his Canadian citizenship, and he grew increasingly resentful of how dependent he had become upon her. In private, he tried to reunite their bond. He bought her gifts.

Probably with her money.

Guaranteed. Guaranteed, it was with her money. He pleaded for her time, but in public, his frustration showed, and he argued with her in front of other people. He badgered her about who she was with, where she was going, and even what she was wearing, and wasn't he The one and the beginning, trying to make her show more. So, why are you changing now?

Yes.

I know, it doesn't‚ it's weird, like‚ that part of this story doesn't make sense to me. This is what you pushed her to do, and how are you now‚ turning it around. It's‚ I don't know.

I don't know. Yeah.

Because, I guess, because he was losing control. The only thing I can think of, I don't know. Then came the Playmate of the Year announcement. That was in April of 1980, and that was a title carrying $200,000 in cash and prize, and it was also signaling Hefner's hopes for her acting breakthrough. Dorothy had achieved what Snyder had only dreamed of. She had celebrity, wealth,

connections. She was now worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in modeling contracts, appearances, prizes, and endorsements.

But with each new accolade, Dorothy moved closer to the people and places Paul couldn't reach. He wasn't invited to key events, he wasn't consulted on her decisions, he wasn't needed anymore, he wasn't professional, it was just emotional and deeply

personal. Dorothy had begun filming They All Laughed, the movie I was telling you that I had watched earlier, and that was with director Peter Bogdanovich.

And that was in the spring of 1980. The two developed quite the intimate connection, one that was grounded in kindness and not control like she had experienced with Snyder.

And for the first time, that was wonderful to her, something that she had never experienced.

And she can see herself, I think‚ I'm not gonna‚ of course, I don't know, but I think that she was starting to be able to see herself with someone like him instead of a person that she had been with, like Snyder.

Well, and I'm glad that she got to experience that once in her life, you know?

I know. He seemed‚very obsessive, but he was good to her, and at least she did have that little bit of somebody treating her right and doing things for her, and not trying to control her, just trying to lift her up.

I don't know if maybe the‚ where I'm getting the‚ the little obsessive thing come after her passing or what, and just things that I've watched, but you are right, like, she had that time to experience someone actually caring for her.

Me too.

So that‚ I'm glad that she did get that. Yeah, that, like I said, though, that shift, and her getting that extra loving attention, that shattered Paul. He hired a private investigator to follow her. He rummaged through her belongings, he called producers pretending to be her manager. He even showed up unannounced at the They All Laughed set in New York.

That was making everybody, including Bogdanovich, deeply uncomfortable, and I know that I stutter with his name a little bit. I'm doing the best I can. I'm sorry, I do not mean to mess up your name, but when Dorothy returned to LA, she immediately moved out, but not into her own place. She moved into‚Bogdanovich’s Bel Air home, and with that, Snyder's delusions of control, they were broken. It was over for that.

He was now isolated, broke, banned from the world, and he was very, very mad. He was infuriated. He became selling off Dorothy's prizes, her new car, her awards, her furs.

He told friends that she owed him everything, but in reality.

She just wasn't fast enough.

Yeah.

So, fast-forwarding to August 13th, 1980, Snyder, he got a 12-gauge shotgun, and the next day.

Thursday, August 14th. Dorothy had gone to meet him at that West Hollywood apartment.

And they were going to finalize their divorce, and she had a payment of $1,100 to give him.

However, later that evening, their roommates, who‚ weren't really sure where they were, but they thought maybe they reconciled. So, around 11 PM, they discovered Dorothy

and Snyder's bodies in the bedroom. They were both nude, and they were both shot dead by the shotgun.

And investigators also confirmed that Dorothy had been raped and executed, and then Snyder turned the gun on himself.

So, again, August 14th, 1980, her life was tragically cut short.

And the thing is‚so, there's a lot, and we can talk about this‚after we get through the actual story, but‚ there's this thing about celebrity and obsession and all of that money, fame, and everything, so‚ it hit that industry of Hollywood really hard, and it sparked, you know, grief, outrage, scrutiny.

Playmate of the Year wasn't just a title, and it embodied glamour and vulnerability, too.

Dorothy's violent murder by her estranged husband, Paul Snider. Showed the dark underbelly of‚ this type of fame, and any kind of celebrity, really.

It exposed an intersection of domestic violence, exploitation, and sometimes predatory nature of celebrity culture.

So, there was‚ this was featured on the Playboy Murders, and in that show.

Mm-hmm.

They had interviewed Mickey Garcia, and she used to work at Playboy.

And she said, you know, this death was traumatic, and it was a big wake-up call.

And a culmination of toxic cycles that had gone unaddressed. She also testified that months before the murder,

she did warn Hugh Hefner that Snyder had a criminal past, including pimping and drug charges.

And that he posed a threat. Unfortunately, her pleas didn't‚start up any type of action against him.

The story of Dorothy's fate found its voice almost immediately, and that was in different forms. Released in 1981 was Death of a Centerfold. This made-for-TV movie starring Jamie Lee Curtis as Dorothy and Bruce Weitz as Snyder, aired on NBC. Now, critics praised Curtis's empathetic portrayal. It was intimate, tragic, and shocking, and revealed the story's raw emotion, but some people felt like it sensationalized the tragedy.

Um, yeah, I can kind of see how it might have bothered some. I don't know, I kind of feel like‚ a lot of movies about true crime stories, you could say the same thing, where some people think, hey, this is great awareness for the story, and‚ for future people that may be going through the same thing, but other people say it’s exactly, exploiting the story and sensationalize. So, I get both views.

Yeah, I understand. I do see‚ I see from both sides, you know how we try to be open-minded and empathetic anyway, so I do see, like you said, both sides.

Yeah.

Released in 1983, Star 80, that's the movie that I was telling you that I was wanting to rent for $3.99. I think I'm gonna go ahead, that's not that much money, and I want to watch it. Now, this movie blended realism with horror. Mariel

Hemingway portrayed Dorothy, and Eric Roberts, he portrayed Snyder in a performance that earned critical acclaim. Now, even though the film was uncomfortably intense,

it was still deemed to be a good movie.  Film critic Roger Ebert considered it an important movie, a stark look into the destructive dynamic between innocent Dorothy and her the control of her husband. Ebert even considered Star 80 Syndrome to describe Hollywood's reluctance to honor performances of deeply disturbing characters.

Which held true for Eric Roberts, despite his powerful portrayal. I kind of, I agree.

I do, I like the idea of‚ being an important movie, because a lot of people just think that you become famous and you live this wonderful fantasy life, and it's not the way it always goes. I mean, Dorothy Stratton's story, and that just completely tells you that that's not the way it always happens.

Now, the film, it did not just recount Dorothy's final day. It interrogated the systems around her, her innocence, Snyder's psychosis,

and Hollywood's silent complicity. One critic noted the film examines a connection between fame and obscurity, a movie about being an outsider, going crazy with the pain of rejection.

Yeah, and Amy spoke earlier about Dorothy going to film They All Laughed And at that time, Peter Bogdanovich was the director. And they had become involved together in a relationship.

Mm-hmm.

During that filming, and in 1984, after her death he channeled his grief and his rage into a memoir, and it's titled The Killing of a Unicorn.

I would love to read this, but‚ I have a hard time reading because‚ of the ADHD, so I probably wouldn't read that. I'm more of, like.

A movie visual type person, but I'm sure it's really good.

I don't know.

I wonder if they have an audiobook? That's an option. I mean, I would do that. I just don't have time to sit down and relaxingly read, you know?

Yeah, honestly, my‚ ADHD is so bad, I can't even do that, I'll get distracted. So, if it's not a visual, like a movie or show or something, it It's just not gonna work for me. But for everybody else‚ there are a lot of readers out there.

I do too.

The killing of the Unicorn. I love that title, too. Yeah, and in that, Bogdanovich blamed Hollywood, he blamed Playboy culture, not just Snyder for Dorothy's demise, and‚ that's valid. He painted a portrait of institutional failure from Hefner's predatory Empire, which we've talked about in previous episodes.

And he talked about his own guilt, also, for not protecting Dorothy.

And, as usual, we have people on both sides. Some praised the book for its brutal honesty, others criticized it as self-serving or sensational, kind of like what we just talked about with the movies.

And Bogdanovich later, married Dorothy's sister, Louise.

I don't know how I feel about that. I mean, I wasn't in that situation. I don't know.

All right.

I'm not gonna judge, but I will say that at the cemetery that I go to.

Peter Bogdanovich and Dorothy Stratton are buried right next to each other.

So they are there together. And her sister Louise and Peter You know, they had, obviously, a complex bond, and I'm sure they went through public scrutiny from also being together.

However, in his book, those words carried a punch. He said Dorothy was prey to a web or a trap of objectification and male entitlement, and who was responsible.

11:16:46 So, you know, I'm sure it's an amazing read, and I would guess if you go through something like this and you're going to write a book.

11:16:57 It's all truthful and brutally honest, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Yeah.

I don't think that's sensationalized.

I've went, or I went a little bit further and, um, watched some Pretty interesting things on YouTube about Dorothy, and it said that you Hefner actually had a heart attack after Badonovich was accusing him of being part of the reason why Dorothy Stratton had been murdered. And it also was talking about how they had possibly had this relationship when her sister was 14, But, uh, that was going back and forth between the two of them in a feud, so‚

I mean, it would just‚ it started like an all-out war between them.

Almost like a pissing contest, you know?

Oh, I don't know anything about that. Yeah. I don't know anything about that, but‚ I'm sure he felt guilty, you know? Even that woman said, Mickey said.

I went and told him I was concerned, and he didn't do anything, and I'm sure he felt guilty.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just seemed like even though neither of them men murdered her, they just, like, stood there with that pissing match, just accusing each other. Well, you're the reason this happened, and I mean it's really pointless. We know, yeah.

Yeah.

It's just sad. I do hate it.

It's extra pointless if you aren't gonna take that experience and change anything about the way that you're doing stuff at Playboy, so‚there's one part of it being his guilt and what happened, and I know one of the things that I saw said that he felt guilty.

That he banned Paul Snyder from the mansion because he felt like that made things worse.

So, there are probably different levels of grief and guilt that Hugh Hefner was going through, and obviously this is just what I think, but if you're not gonna take this experience

and change the way you're doing things? What's the point of saying anything about anyone else, or pointing fingers,

you know?

I personally think that he made the right call. By banning Snyder from the Playboy Mansion, because that was another way that he felt like he had control.

Well, also, he could have met another girl, and this could have‚Ä you know, he could have taken advantage of someone else.

So easy. It could have been the next Dorothy, yeah. Like, his little‚ pet or project. You're exactly right. So, I think that it was a very good thing that he banned him from there. I can't disagree with that one.

Yeah.

But Miss Dorothy Stratton, bless her heart, she was a cultural fallout. It just completely fell out the bottom after she passed. There's songs, media, all kinds of different things. The fallout went far beyond books, movies. She had two songs, Bryan Adams, The Best Was Yet to Come, that mourned Dorothy's lost potential, Canadian rock band Prisms Covergirl, that reflected on the price of beauty.

Documentaries, A&E Secrets of Playboy, that was in 2022, treated Dorothy's murder as pivotal, making it the final straw and exposing Playboy's culture of exploitation. Exploitation, exploitation, correct that word for me, Dawn.

Exploitation. We appreciate Holly Madison.

And thank you. Yes, oh, bless her. Yeah, and I've found‚ I don't remember what I was doing, but I was just walking by when it's going on. I haven't sat and watched it yet, but she‚ has another true crime show.

 I'm gonna have to go back and find it. It was after something had ended, and you know how to automatically go to another show. I was busy and had to back out of it, but I'm gonna have to go back and find out what that show is, because it was not Playboy Murders.

Yeah, let me know.

Yeah, that one would be another one to get back on, but back off Holly, we're talking about Dorothy, sorry about that. You have television true crime Investigation Discoveries, the Playboy Murders revisited Dorothy's story, that was in 2024. Well, I said, let's not talk about Holly, let's talk about Holly. She's on the Playboy Murders. Now, like I said, she is in it, it highlighted, Dorothy's fear on that one, and the pressure that she faced at the age of 18 within a system built on control, Holly kind of walks you through. I love how she does it from the inside of what it would be like to

maybe hear the story from someone who has been in that life and experienced it. She will tell you Dorothy's story and other Playboy bunnies that did not have such a nice outcome.

So, if you do like that kind of thing, definitely check out Playboy Murders.

Yeah, I love that show.

We both recommend. Yeah, I mean I've probably watched‚ 7, 8, 9 episodes now?

Oh, I've watched them all. Yeah.

\I’ve liked every one of them, yeah. Did we watch the one‚ of Dorothy Stratton?

When we first started doing this. Or do I need to go back and watch that one?

I mean, I watched it when it first came out last year.

So, I don't think that I had‚ I was wondering on that when we was going through the research, so I need to go back and watch that one. I guess it would be C's in, what, 3?

Maybe two? I don't remember.

Maybe two. Okay, well, I'm gonna go back, and I want to watch that episode, because I did totally miss that.

\Yeah. For some reason, I feel like it was probably Season 1.

But I don't remember. Maybe not.

Really, for 2020? Okay, well, I mean, maybe that's‚ yeah. I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna look for that one for sure, because I somehow‚ I did miss it.

Yeah, good show. Everyone watch it.

Most definitely.

Now, from this situation after Dorothy's passing, there was public reckoning, the story deepened conversations around the abuse embedded in institutions predated and foreshadowed the Me Too era, forcing audiences to reckon with victims who slipped through the cracks amid wealth,

fame, and unchecked male power. the people that were silenced that we didn't maybe realize were.

Yeah.

Just because you have money doesn't mean everything's good.

No, and we can go more in-depth where‚ almost done with the actual story of Dorothy, but‚ I do have a couple things to say about that.

Yeah.

But I will say, 47 years after her death, her story‚ you know, is still a challenge to today's modern day‚ and I can't believe it's been that long, it's crazy. 47 years, but‚ you know, it just shows how easily talent and their potential can be overshadowed by desperation, possession, men.

Misogyny, the worst one of all. And‚ again, I'm not saying her death didn't impact Hugh Hefner, because clearly, it did, and it would have, and you just said he may have had a heart attack from it.

Yeap.

But, you know, he did later express regret.

And‚ I think that that's one of the biggest lessons out of this story in how to handle these types of situations in the future.

And obviously. Bogdanovich, who was her boyfriend at the time of her passing, you know, he has, I'm sure, or had, sorry, he's passed on, but‚ I'm sure he had  an immense amount of guilt, maybe even more so than Hefner. I don't know.

I don't think he ever got over it.

And then her sister, Louise who‚ I said then married Bogdanovich, went through scrutiny in the media, which probably felt shitty after losing her sister.

, we don't know, we weren't there. Their grief clearly bonded them, and‚ that's just what happened. I mean, I don't know how Dorothy would have felt about that. It's not my business, it's not my place, I don’t  I don't judge. But the good thing is, her voice wasn't silenced, as you just went through.

There were songs, there were documentaries, there are TV shows, and all kinds of different things that highlighted her life, and the tragedy of her death. So‚ those things always are good to spark conversation and debate, and how do we change

things of‚ nature of how we're doing, this culture. So, you know, she became sort of like a symbol for that, which‚ isn't obviously what she wanted with her life, but that was what happened, and you know, if anything we try to always say that Amy and I want to highlight victims, and this is another one of those cases where how do we change this, you know? So‚ I don't know‚  he wasn’t‚ well, I guess he was kind of a stalker. He showed up on her movie set in New York, right? So…

Yeah.

My friend Lenora Clare, she has had this really, really scary stalker for a long time, and he's also stalked, like Ivanka Trump and the Kardashians, and other celebrities as well.

They met at an art show many years ago. And when I say he's scary.

ou don't even know. So‚ she has been doing her best with keeping safe, you know, to try and help other people and change the laws, and she's been working with Adam Schiff, who is here in California.

Nice.

And she's worked with the FBI, local law enforcement, and she just actually started a podcast as well, so‚ yeah, and she's always willing, I've had a couple people that I know that end up with stalkers, and it doesn't even have to be a relationship stalker.

People can have  all different ones, not even a dating stalker, so‚ a couple of times I've sent her people that I know.

My friend is having an issue, and she is always is, like.

connect us, and I'll help them. She's amazing. I mean, if anyone wants to just look up her story, it's Lenora Clare, but if you're having an issue.

She has an email that you can use, and she will try to help you if she can.

Unfortunately, a lot of it is state law. In these types of circumstances, with stalking or even murder, or any, like‚ a lot of things are state law,so unfortunately there's no one set of rules or laws to this kind of stuff.

But, you know, you you can help in this fight.

Right.

Everyone needs to push for things like a central database. I want to know‚ let me go look up police records. Not all states have public police records, and you can't see does this person have restraining orders, or any of that kind of stuff?

I feel like that’s  a bare minimum of what we can do to kind of fix these types of situations.

Right, I mean, why couldn't we have a general public you wouldn't want to put somebody's business all the way out there, but if you could maybe highlight, hey, maybe this person's had a few domestic violence issues, or maybe alcohol intoxication, just any little thing that you may not want you know, you may not want to be with somebody that was getting rowdy in public all the time, or has been  in domestic abuse situations. So I think that would be helpful.

I don't know how you would go about that, but it would be nice.

Yeah. Well, that's some of the stuff that she's trying to do on her side of it.

Right.

It's just one person can't do it all, you know? Everybody needs to speak up. And also, if you have a domestic violence charge on your records, you should not own a firearm.

Done. I don't care what anyone thinks about what I just said.

In Kentucky, you cannot. Yeah. Right.

You should not own a firearm. Well, that's good, but not everywhere is like that, and‚ I speak from experience the guy who killed my niece.

had, you know msome stuff on his record, nothing major, but he did have some  sketchy things, and shouldn't have had a firearm, and he did, and he held my sister and my niece and my nephew at gunpoint before he murdered my niece, so I feel very strongly about this. And if you don't feel the same.

I don't know. That's how I feel, and‚ you shouldn’t‚  if you can't control your emotions, and you’re  a domestic violence person, you shouldn't have a firearm.

That's it. Yeah. It’s, I know that's a big debate.

Yeah, I mean‚it's definitely not the firearm's fault. You can't lay it down and it's gonna go shoot somebody.

It’s whatever state of mind that the person that has that firearm, or what their intention is. So, I'm definitely not against guns over here. I just feel like maybe we should be a little more careful with who's hands we put them in.

Exactly. I'm not either. We own a firearm for protection. I go to a shooting range. I shoot a gun. We own a gun.

Right.

I'm not against people owning firearms for protection.

Right. And I mean, I'm not here trying to say that this is how it should be done, or that would be perfect if you did this. I don't know how to do it. I just feel like it's something that needs to be done.

Yeah. And I know this totally, sort of, got off-topic, but it just organically came up.

Well, I mean, yeah, not really, because that's a big, like, who can get a hold of weapons is a big thing sometimes for domestic violence. Sometimes these individuals did get a hold of a weapon and shouldn't have been able to, and it was relatively easy for them to do so.

Well, and that's how‚ Snider killed Dorothy Stratton.

So, yeah, I mean.

Okay, and also, now that I'm thinking about it, he shouldn't have been able to even get one legally, because he didn't have a citizenship, correct? If you cannot work legally, was you able to legally obtain a firearm?

Or was that a thing back then? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not sure how that worked. It must have been because it was in the early 80s. There probably weren't as many laws or any, I'm not sure.

You're probably right. I remember riding in the back of the truck with my dad's gun over the seat right above our head, you know? So, yeah, you're right.

Oh my god, that's so dangerous. Oh‚ No!

Remember the built-in gun holders on the truck? You're from Ohio, you had to have seen it.

No, I don't know anything about that. There's a built-in holder? Who knew?

Really? Yeah, my dad was a hunter, and in the back window, there'd be this thing, and there'd be guns hanging up in there.

That's country, isn't it?

Oh my god, that's hilarious. That doesn't sound safe, but I guess if it’s a gun holder meant for that? I don't know.

We even had those decorative holders in our house where you open it up and slide out the bullets are in it, yeah.

That was a big thing in my house growing up. Dad hunted rabbits, squirrels, deer, all that stuff, so yeah.

Yeah, and again. That's fine. Your shit needs to be locked up, and secure.

I don't debate gun ownership.

No, just don't. Well, you don't need to. Flag them around like we did in the 80s.

Ride around with them hanging on the window in the back of the truck.

Exactly. Oh my god, that's so funny.

I have to find a picture and send it to you of what it would look like. I know I can find one somewhere on Google.

Oh, no. I'll stop now. Yes.

Please do. We can post it for everybody to see.

Yeah. I mean, riding around the 80s.

Oh, no. Yeah, so you know, I feel like also  going to that same cemetery, and just down the road from Dorothy Stratton.

And this can be a different episode, is Dominique Dunn, who was killed by her boyfriend, and there are plenty of celebrities who end up with stalkers, and who have been killed.

Yes.

So, you know, it’s great being famous‚ I mean, sure, it has its benefits, and I'm sure those people love being acknowledged and all that.

But, it also comes with some possible downfalls, including maybe even your life.

Yeah, I mean, you could have someone who‚ maybe follows your work and feels like they know you personally, when reality, they do not, and maybe that could make them feel entitled to take their actions to a step that is not appropriate. That can happen very easily, and I don't think people really understand how easily that can happen.

No, and that even‚ as small as, like, a TikTok creator or a Facebook person, like.

When you guys are live at a cemetery. Or Tim, or anyone that I'm modding for.

Mm-hmm.

I refuse, even if Tim says where he is, which he has stopped doing it, and I'm glad.

Even if someone says where they are. I will not give even the city that someone's in, maybe the state.

Right.

But I have started staying in the Midwest. Just for this very reason, Tim had someone show up at a cemetery and yell at him, I'm not going to be responsible, yeah.

I missed that one. I've had people show up, but nobody ever yell at me.

That's ugly.

Yeah, so he stopped saying where he is because of that, and I never did. I have always felt very strongly about this, so even like I said, if the person that I'm modding for says where they are, I never, ever, ever repeat that in text.

I've seen, you know, Trinity's had people show up at locations In the middle of the night, so it's not safe. People are crazy, and I feel like they're getting. Yes.

Brett and Lizzie. Remember when Brett and Lizzie had it happen? Yeah.

Yes! I feel like people are getting crazier. So, more entitled.

Unfortunately, I think this stuff is gonna be happening more than less.

I keep locations to myself.

I hope not.

Yeah. The only time we ever say exactly where we're at is for a location, and you're safe in there, and you know that there's no way of anybody‚ you know what I'm saying? When we was at the Demon House, then the Monroe Demon House, we said where we was, but we were in there, we were safe, locked, surrounded by cameras.

So that's a little bit different, but if you're out like Tim was in a cemetery, there's no protection, so yeah, that's really scary.

Yeah, well, Brett and Lizzie were at a locked location.

Big location. Yeah, it is a huge one. The cops had to come for that too, didn't they? Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah. Yep. I've seen that happen to a couple of other people who were live, where they had to call the cops because people wouldn't leave, You know? It's just a wild world we're living in, and we want everyone to be safe, and that includes

laws that need to be changed.

Yeah. The more you know. I mean, we gotta be very, very aware of our surroundings and what's going on, because there's people that do not have good intentions for us whatsoever, and they're lurking around us everywhere.

Yeah, it sucks. A couple years ago, I got held at gunpoint in an armed robbery. I don't know if I've ever said that on the podcast before, but one of the things that came from that, besides horrible PTSD, which I still have, is that everywhere I go, including in my car, if I'm sitting at a light or something I am always aware of where I am and how I can get out.

Yeah.

So‚ everyone, if nothing else, if that's the thing you get out of this, and I know we've talked about that before.

Just be aware of your surroundings, and always know. Where you can leave if you need to.

Yes. And I don't know about you, but when I get in my car, like, especially if I'm waiting on Shannon, and I didn't want to go in, and I'm sitting in the car, if he runs in somewhere, I lock the door.

Oh, always. My doors are always locked. And if I sit at a red light.

Yes.

I always have my car back far enough where I can leave. I don't pull up to the car in front of me where I can't move and get out if I need to.

It's sad that women have to think like that. Or anybody, really, but for the most part.

to be a woman in this day and time, it's scary at times.

Well, yeah, you hear all of these stories, and‚ I never know if they're true or not, where‚ they'll say, oh, someone will put money under your tires, so that you bend over to pick it up, and then you're distracted, and they shove you in your car, or whatever. Or they mark your tires, because they see that it's a woman getting out of her car, and when you go into the store, they mark your tires to follow you, or‚ they do things to, like, slash your tires, whatever.

You know, all these stories you hear, oh, this is happening around the country now, and I never know if it's true, but again, just be aware, if someone shoves a bottle under your tire when you're parked at the grocery store kick it away and get in your car as fast as you can. Like, I don't know if that's true or not, but always treat it like it is. It's better to be safe than the alternative.

And I'll never take anything off of my windshield wiper, either.

Heck no. Just drive with that shit on your car, that's what I do.

Great.

And I'm very environmentally conscious, and I hate littering.

You just never know.

But I drive away with that on my car, and if it blows off, it blows off. Like, that's mine. Yeah, totally, yeah. That's my one thing that I’m like, If I litter, I litter. I'm not gonna get killed over a piece of paper that's on my windshield.

I mean, how do you not know if you stopped and took the time to read that, that somebody wouldn't jump in and grab you?

Yep. Yeah, exactly.

So, no. I don't know what their intentions are. Stay safe. Watch yourself, watch your surroundings.

I know, and I feel like we strayed a little from the things that she went through, but this stuff is important, so, you know.

Right.

It's all‚it's all in the same realm, it's not exactly what she went through, but just, yeah, be safe, everybody.

I mean, honestly, at this point, do they expect anything different from us?

True. Good point.

I mean, we're gonna stray some, so it's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. All right, well‚ everyone watch Dorothy's story, there are movies, there are shows, there are documentaries.

And there's Peter Bogdanovich's book. So, everyone find out her story more than what we just told you, because this sure was a recap, but it was very brief, and she's beautiful, go look up her pictures and all that, and enjoy learning about her life.

Yeah, there's so much just on the Bogdanovich. If you just put his name in there with her name, you can find so much stuff in there, like everything that he did afterwards to memorialize her. There's a lot of extra content and information that you can find.

Yeah. All right, well, we'll meet back here in a week.

And this sort of tied in to our Playboy series, which is over, but it's a couple of episodes later. We just kind of wanted to make sure that we covered Dorothy's story.

Right.

Yeah, all right. Well, thanks, everyone, and we'll be starting up a whole new series.

All right. I know! Okay, bye!

Exciting. Bye.