Ep30: Minisode: Bryan Kohberger

Join Amy and Dawn as they break down the case, the timeline, and the disturbing details behind the headlines of this case. In the quiet college town of Moscow, Idaho, four students were brutally murdered, and all eyes turned to Bryan Kohberger. 

Transcript

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 [Music] 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome to Me, where we talk about movies and shows 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,800 that cover true crime, paranormal, and horror. 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,600 I am one of your hosts, Dawn. 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,400 I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,400 genre. 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,000 Especially those 80s classics. 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,720 A quick fun fact about me, I have a very extensive crystal collection. 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:37,720 Hello, I'm Amy. 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,280 I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,000 A few fun facts about me. 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,000 I'm an empath. 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,120 I collect old dolls and you know, I've never flown on an airplane. 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,440 Can you believe that? 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,920 Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are. 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,400 Talk Gruesome to Me. 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:04,000 Hello, we are here and we are going to cover a little bit of a more recent story. 18 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:10,320 Amy reached out after she saw this episode on Dateline a couple days ago because it's 19 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:12,160 a new release. 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:18,680 It's about the Brian Kohberger story with the four college kids in Idaho that were killed 21 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,480 in 2022. 22 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,840 The timing is coming up here pretty soon. 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:30,080 I think jury selection, yes, starts in July and the trial is supposed to start in August 24 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,160 to mid August. 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,080 So it's not that far away. 26 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,320 I'm sure not everyone knows this story, so we just kind of wanted to talk about it and 27 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:42,160 get everybody caught up, especially with that new Dateline that just came out as usual. 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,400 We're giving disclaimers. 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,320 These are just our opinions. 30 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:51,520 We are going off of internet research and the Dateline episode. 31 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,640 So we're going to cover what we found. 32 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:01,280 Yeah, give our opinions on what we think at the end as we usually do. 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,480 We always like to highlight victims first. 34 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,240 We're always going to do that. 35 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:12,760 The actual date of the murder, it was November 13th, 2022, so a couple years ago. 36 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:18,520 There were six kids, I call them kids, the early 20s, living in the house. 37 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:24,080 Four of them, unfortunately, were murdered and two of them were not. 38 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:33,480 I'll give you their names, Maddie 21, Ethan 20, Zanna 20, and Kaylee 21. 39 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:40,020 Those were the four victims and then Dylan and Bethany, also both females, they were not 40 00:02:40,020 --> 00:02:41,020 murdered. 41 00:02:41,020 --> 00:02:43,040 They got very lucky. 42 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:48,240 And I'm sure whenever I watch these stories and this kind of thing happens, I mean, 43 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,240 I don't know. 44 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,840 They didn't talk about this and none of these people were interviewed or their parents, Bethany 45 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,840 or Dylan. 46 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:02,800 So I'm just guessing there's got to be a really horrible level of guilt when you're a survivor 47 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,000 and your friends were not, you know? 48 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,000 Oh my goodness. 49 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:11,000 Like, I was thinking about the way they didn't call right away. 50 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,000 They were confused and they were just getting the hell trying to get a hell to Maddie. 51 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:21,240 You gotta understand they had had a lot to drink before, so they weren't completely in their 52 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,240 right minds to begin with. 53 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,320 I just, I can't imagine. 54 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:31,080 Right, and not only that, why would you ever suspect that that's what happened, you know? 55 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,440 I just, I always think about survivors killed in situations. 56 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:36,440 Imagine what they feel. 57 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:41,600 Like, we could have just went up there, but they didn't know what was going on. 58 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:47,880 So yeah, I mean, I can't imagine what's going through their heads and bless their hearts. 59 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:53,160 Oh, the trauma and the PTSD and all of it must be horrendous. 60 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,080 Oh, it's traumatic. 61 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,080 Yeah. 62 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:02,920 So now that we've talked about them and, you know, they were all college kids in their early 63 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,360 20s and they all seemed full of life and beautiful. 64 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:12,200 They were all living their best lives together in this house. 65 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:18,480 I hate getting into the part where we talk about the bad guy, but obviously we have to talk 66 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,040 about him. 67 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:26,360 He grew up in Pennsylvania, was awkward with girls, had low self esteem. 68 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,640 When he got into his mid to late 20s, he had lost a lot of weight and they also said that 69 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,560 he overcame a heroin addiction. 70 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,920 He became vegan, you know, started taking more care of himself. 71 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:44,280 He was going into or had already started studying criminology. 72 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:51,720 He was a really good student, got good grades, and he had at that point finished his master's 73 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:57,160 and was going into a PhD program around that same time. 74 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,240 He had gone on Amazon and this will make more sense at the end. 75 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,200 We're going in order of the timeline. 76 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,080 So it seems a little out of place, but it's not because it happened at that time when he 77 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,680 was going into his PhD program. 78 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,920 He purchased a very specific knife on Amazon at that time. 79 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:16,400 So that'll come up later. 80 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,920 Remember that. 81 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:24,760 Around July, early July, July, I think it was 9th, there was a pool party that Brian had 82 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:31,040 been invited to because he had just moved into this new building and obviously, you know, 83 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,040 he wants to try and see if he can make some friends. 84 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:40,160 He goes to this pool party, he's awkward as one would suspect. 85 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,800 He met a couple people, a couple guys that kind of were like, "This guy's a little weird." 86 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,720 He met this girl Holly. 87 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,160 It seemed like she didn't say it exactly, but it seemed like she kind of felt sorry for 88 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:52,160 him, you know. 89 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,720 He's clearly doesn't have any friends. 90 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,680 You know, she was clearly an empathetic person. 91 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:02,720 They talk for a little while and she tells him about this hiking group that she belongs 92 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,920 to and they exchange phone numbers. 93 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Holly's lucky, by the way. 94 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:16,200 Around this time, he started googling things about Ted Bundy and other serial killers, which 95 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,440 I mean, he is in criminology. 96 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:26,960 So that kind of plays a factor in some of these Google searches of being able to say, "Oh, 97 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:32,960 this was because of school," or this was because he's a serial killer, potentially. 98 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,360 He's starting to Google weird things. 99 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:45,160 In August, mid-August, and then again, September 1st, he was, "Oh no, that house that those 100 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,120 six kids were living in, I'm going to keep referring to them as kids because to me they 101 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:50,120 are." 102 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,120 I know they're not, but... 103 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,120 They just got started. 104 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,000 Yeah, they were still little kids. 105 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,320 Those six kids were living in this house. 106 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,240 They got a couple of noise complaints called in. 107 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:08,800 Now the first one, it was just during the day, it seemed kind of off like, why is this happening? 108 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,280 The second one was even more off. 109 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:17,520 It was at night, however, none of the residents were even home at the time. 110 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,720 It's a little suspicious that they were getting these noise complaints. 111 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,800 One of the theories that Dateline had said was, potentially, since there was a lot of chaos 112 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:33,320 going on while the cops are there trying to figure out what's happening, possibly someone 113 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,960 could have snuck in really fast and looked around the house and then left. 114 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:39,160 I guess it's plausible. 115 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:45,840 I mean, it seems far-fetched, but who knows, especially someone with a criminology degree. 116 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:52,840 Without it's happening at the same time, he, at one point, got a ticket driving around that 117 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:53,840 area. 118 00:07:53,840 --> 00:08:01,080 He's definitely around, but he lives in Washington several miles away, not close. 119 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,680 It's not like he'd be driving through there just for funsies every day, you know what I mean? 120 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,320 On his way home, right. 121 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:08,920 Yeah, no. 122 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,960 That's not what was happening. 123 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,640 His cell phone starts pinging around their house regularly. 124 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:22,360 After that first ticket, they found a Google search that said, "When can a cop detain you?" 125 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:30,600 So he was definitely questioning now that he's starting to get seen in the area by the cops. 126 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:39,440 He's also oddly starting to Google things like, "Past out, drugged, forced, just like weird 127 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:45,440 things in relation to something that you would do to a female, mostly." 128 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,440 Around the same time, he became a teaching assistant. 129 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:55,880 It did not go well, which again, not surprising by someone like this. 130 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:03,480 He had issues with a lot of the women that were either his colleagues or that he was, you 131 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,120 know, teaching. 132 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:10,040 Not only was it women, but there was a particular professor that they had mentioned. 133 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,320 It was a female. 134 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,240 They got into an argument. 135 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:15,240 I don't know. 136 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:20,560 They mentioned that English wasn't her first language, so I don't know if... 137 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:22,840 I'm not exactly sure why that was important to the story. 138 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:29,320 I don't know if that was insinuating maybe she couldn't argue back because... 139 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,240 Maybe he picked on her because she couldn't put up a good argument or something. 140 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:35,240 I don't know. 141 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,280 It was just something they mentioned, so I thought I should mention it. 142 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,760 And then a month in to this PhD program. 143 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,960 Again, not going well. 144 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,560 None of the undergraduates liked him. 145 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:49,800 He was getting into more arguments with the professors. 146 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:56,920 The dean at the end of September asked to meet with him to discuss, quote, unquote, "norms 147 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,400 of professional behavior." 148 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:04,680 They didn't explain what that meant, but it's kind of self-explanatory, conduct yourself 149 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:09,840 in a way that isn't argumentative, combative, negative, all of that kind of thing. 150 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:10,840 I'm sure. 151 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,320 Again, I'm just guessing. 152 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,000 Because we're going as you would suspect from this person, but not going well. 153 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:23,360 With his mental state, there's no way that all of that wasn't helping. 154 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,960 Think about all the things that you just said. 155 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:27,400 Put it in a ball. 156 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,960 And add it together with his... 157 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,800 What he's going to school for. 158 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,280 What his degree is. 159 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:34,600 That's just... 160 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,080 Make up for disaster. 161 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:37,080 Yep. 162 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:38,880 That's totally scary. 163 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:45,040 While he was, still there, he digged into a relationship, friendship, it was it. 164 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,920 It was kind of hard to really understand what was going on between him and this Korean girl. 165 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:55,240 I'm going to kind of guess that they wasn't romantically involved because, you know, they didn't. 166 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,880 It kind of just said that they didn't have any sexual contact. 167 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,360 I guess is what I'm going to say. 168 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,160 Didn't seem like they were much more than friends. 169 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,360 On September 10th, someone broke into her house. 170 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,000 And they did a lot of strange things. 171 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,120 She had some food sitting out that she was planning to throw away. 172 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,600 That food was actually moved away in her house. 173 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,920 So she automatically noticed that when she came in. 174 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,520 And what I thought was really, really strange. 175 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,320 Someone had went into her bathroom and took some of her belongings that were out and 176 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,880 ranged them on her toilet. 177 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,400 That is extremely... 178 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,000 Yeah, that's really creepy. 179 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,760 And I would have been really stressed out when I seen that. 180 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,280 Now with all the strange things that were going on there, the food mis- are moved around 181 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,000 the house and the stuff arranged on the toilet. 182 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:51,040 Nothing else was missing except for a watch and a personal letter. 183 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:56,360 And when we get to that bride knew about both of those, which I thought was, you know, 184 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,360 of course, we're going to start putting things together by this point. 185 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,880 Now she goes and she stays with Bryan because she feels safe there. 186 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,760 So she goes and stays the night there. 187 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,920 This was the time that they did mention that there wasn't anything sexual. 188 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,800 This was just a place for her to feel safe. 189 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,320 Now she says that her spare key and her apartment was missing. 190 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,280 They did share an office. 191 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,520 She asked about it. 192 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,000 He said that he hadn't seen it. 193 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,800 He didn't know where it was. 194 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,040 Kind of funny later that afternoon, it shows back up right in the door where it was 195 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,600 supposed to be. 196 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:36,840 She has him install the security cameras in her house, which by this time she was feeling 197 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:42,920 safe enough to go to his apartment when she was concerned to stay at her own. 198 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:49,240 But during a little bit later, she does kind of start to wonder if possibly Brian did 199 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,600 have access to that video that was in her house. 200 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,960 Maybe could she see him when she was going about her afternoon night morning? 201 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,920 Whenever she was home, that is scary. 202 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:08,560 Now one of the photos in his phone, he did have a lot of photos of girls that was very, 203 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,200 very creepy. 204 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,120 That was some of the girls that were living in the house. 205 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,800 So he was obviously watching these girls. 206 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,200 And that you just don't know. 207 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,280 At one point, like they were saying, they were making TikToks and other videos in the same 208 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,360 house that they were going to lose their life in. 209 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,840 That is horrible. 210 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:37,240 Another thing could, now that I just this popped in my head, could the killer have learned 211 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,840 the layout of the house through their social media videos? 212 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,720 Yeah, it did say they posted a lot. 213 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:44,720 They did. 214 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,080 So I just know I thought about that. 215 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:52,160 And September 30th, he Googled psychopathic traits in college student. 216 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:58,960 Now, in the first two weeks of October, it's kind of strange and kind of hard to explain 217 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,440 the something totally. 218 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:06,040 What can he say that he was doing to explain why he was around their house several times 219 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,760 during that time frame? 220 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,440 It was found on his phone and you can't deny when your phone pings. 221 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,480 October 14th, he was pulled over again for running a red light. 222 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,440 October 19th, Google's Can Cycle Pass behaves socially. 223 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:28,880 There that strange, but again, like Dawn said, that possibly could have just tied to school. 224 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,080 Maybe a paper or anything like that. 225 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,880 He kept googling his own name. 226 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:40,320 I thought that was extremely weird because from what I could tell, it didn't seem like he, 227 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,760 of course he was a good student, but it didn't seem like he was doing anything in his after-hours 228 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,320 to be noted for. 229 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,680 So I thought that was kind of strange. 230 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:54,760 November 2nd, meeting to discuss improvement plan at school due to an altercation with a 231 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:55,760 female. 232 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,480 Yeah, he had to go to that meeting. 233 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:04,720 Then he makes another stop by the murder house, which total 23 times in four months. 234 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,720 And they're all after dark. 235 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:13,280 I remember how Dawn said, he's not even from there, so it's not like he was passing through 236 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:14,960 on his way home. 237 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,200 That, yeah, very strange. 238 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,880 Then he starts trying to clear his computer. 239 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,320 Why are you clearing your computer, Bryan? 240 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:28,600 Now November 12th, Kaylee posts pics of all them on Instagram that night. 241 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,800 Ethan and Zanna went to a party. 242 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:36,640 Kaylee and Maddie, they went to a local bar and then went to get food around 145. 243 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,680 This was caught on camera. 244 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,640 You are able to see them standing at the food truck getting their food. 245 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,200 They all arrive home around 2 a.m. 246 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,200 226 phone calls were made from both phones. 247 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,800 254 a.m. Brian's phone, it's turned off. 248 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:03,480 326 a.m. the white car is spotted near 3.30 a.m. the white car goes towards the house and 249 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,680 keeps going around and around. 250 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:06,680 I forget. 251 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,760 I don't actually think they said how many times, but it circled. 252 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,600 I think at least three or four times. 253 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,680 Or I'm going to say why? 254 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,360 Why would a car be doing that other than what happens next? 255 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,240 Around 4 a.m. 256 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:30,120 Everyone else, they believe they were all in their rooms sleeping or at least not out 257 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,120 being active. 258 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,600 They weren't in the common areas. 259 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,280 Whether or not they were all sleeping, I don't know, but they were at least all in their 260 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,480 rooms except for Zanna. 261 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,840 And they know this about Zanna being awake because she at 4 a.m. received a door dash 262 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:44,840 order 263 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:45,840 at 4 a.m. 264 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:53,240 There's a car, the same white car that they had seen 23 times. 265 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:58,800 It's going around and they see it several times it U turns. 266 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,520 Something that they talked about in the date line episode was that they thought maybe 267 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:11,640 this U turning and circling and all that was the killer questioning what they were about 268 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,280 to do. 269 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,040 Maybe the killer was convinced, okay, I'm going to do this, but was kind of running over 270 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,400 the plan in their head. 271 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:20,880 They don't know. 272 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,480 For whatever reason that person kept going around and then all of this sudden stopped 273 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:30,120 in U turned and went quickly towards the house at 4 a.m. 274 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:35,200 Who knows, we're never going to know what was going through that person's mind. 275 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:41,720 Maybe they were reconsidering, maybe they were just really adamant and knew what they were 276 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,360 going to do and just were finalizing it in their head just at the last minute. 277 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,360 I don't know. 278 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:48,360 Again, we'll never know. 279 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:49,960 They'll never tell. 280 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:50,960 Heck no. 281 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,160 It's unfortunate. 282 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:57,280 And sometimes in the end, every once in a while you'll get one that will give their 283 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,280 story. 284 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,080 They weigh after the fact. 285 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,600 So even if we do know, it's going to be a while. 286 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:03,600 I hope I'm wrong. 287 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:11,040 I hope that for the family's sake, maybe in the least we could get an honest answer in 288 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,040 the end. 289 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:18,880 Unfortunately, the kitchen door was unlocked so that is how the killer went into the house. 290 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:26,480 This is just what they think happened given the crime scene and interviewing the two girls 291 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,240 who were not killed. 292 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:34,400 So this is kind of expert opinion on exactly what happened in that house. 293 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,200 They think that the killer went to Maddie's bedroom first. 294 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,920 The theory that they think is that because that's where the killer went first, this whole 295 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:49,440 thing was probably about an obsession or something to do with Maddie. 296 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,840 It's unfortunate. 297 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:51,840 That's what they think. 298 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,080 Can you imagine Kayleigh? 299 00:18:54,080 --> 00:19:00,720 She had already moved out and sadly was there that weekend to show Maddie her car. 300 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:01,720 She was proud of it. 301 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,400 It was a new car and she wanted to show it off. 302 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,120 So she was just staying the weekend there. 303 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:10,120 They had been friends since grade school. 304 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,760 I'm sure that this weekend was a big deal. 305 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,720 They were going to get together. 306 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,040 Probably go take a spin in the new car and have a girl's weekend. 307 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,640 So that just breaks my heart especially for the parents. 308 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:23,640 Yeah. 309 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,940 So I'm sure this caught the killer off guard because when they went into Maddie's room, 310 00:19:28,940 --> 00:19:31,640 Kayleigh was in there sleeping in the bed as well. 311 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:37,680 There was definitely a struggle that happened in there and unfortunately both girls were 312 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,080 stabbed. 313 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:44,280 And then Zanna went to go look because she heard some commotion. 314 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,160 He chased her into her room where Ethan was sleeping. 315 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:55,640 The part that sucks is all of these kids had been drinking and so I think they believe 316 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,480 that Ethan was passed out. 317 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,840 Probably just didn't even hear what was going on with his girlfriend. 318 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,920 Unfortunately they were both stabbed and killed as well. 319 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,000 I forgot what important part about the knife. 320 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:18,760 When they started running and Zanna was running and he went to chase after her in Maddie's 321 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,960 bed they found the sheath of a knife. 322 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,520 That's going to come up again shortly. 323 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:26,520 Yeah. 324 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:33,080 That is a very key piece of evidence that we'll talk about here in a little bit again. 325 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:39,760 Unfortunately now we have four people who've been stabbed to death and I don't know why and 326 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,240 they didn't go into this in a lot of detail. 327 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:51,080 But it said that he carved into Ethan's lower legs and they said that they kind of felt like 328 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:59,280 that made it more so feel like some type of man, woman, power, you know what I mean? 329 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,280 Like obsession. 330 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,160 Why is there a guy in the house? 331 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,960 Kind of with the kind of girl that I could never have so I'm going to. 332 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:06,960 Right. 333 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,760 I'm going to harm you hurt you more. 334 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:09,760 Yeah. 335 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:10,760 Exactly. 336 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:17,360 Again, it's hard to know that's just expert opinion of why he would do something like that 337 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:18,960 and it makes sense. 338 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:24,120 So then Dylan who's in her room she hears these noises as well. 339 00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,200 She opens up her bedroom door. 340 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:32,480 She hears, she sees a male and hears something like and this isn't a quote. 341 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:33,480 It's okay. 342 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,800 I am going to help you. 343 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,280 She reports later that he was in black clothing. 344 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,920 He had a mask that covered his nose and his mouth. 345 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:50,040 He was 5/10 or taller, bushy eyebrows, not muscular but like a maybe a little bit more 346 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,800 of an athletic build. 347 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:58,000 The killer walked by her and she locked herself in her room at 4/20. 348 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:05,320 So this is about, I don't know, 15 minutes or so past the time when the car headed in the 349 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,280 direction of the house. 350 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:13,440 The car speeds off away from the house and it went so fast that they actually almost hit 351 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,680 someone. 352 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,920 Dylan who again is locked in her room starts calling her roommates. 353 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,800 Obviously no one's answering. 354 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,840 Bethany is up and she's also calling roommates who are not answering. 355 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,440 They end up texting each other. 356 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,960 Bethany's like come run as fast as you can, come to my room. 357 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:40,000 So Dylan runs to Bethany's room and in the process she notices that Zanna is laying on the floor 358 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,640 of the bedroom. 359 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,800 She just assumes oh she's passed out. 360 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,800 Yeah, because they were all drinking. 361 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:53,440 And again back to what we said in the beginning, who would ever think what happened happened. 362 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,720 That's completely valid. 363 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,440 Of course you think she's passed out from drinking. 364 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,760 I'm just confused though. 365 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,280 There was a lot of blood. 366 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,440 I was watching another show. 367 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:08,400 I can't remember which one it was this morning, but there was so much blood that it ran. 368 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,560 There's pictures of it in video of it running on the outside of the house down the brick. 369 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:17,800 I know, but this is right after it happened and you got to remember Dylan and Bethany are 370 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:18,800 drunk too. 371 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:19,800 True. 372 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:20,800 True. 373 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,080 They still have it sobered up because you're at what, 4:30 in the morning. 374 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,080 Yeah, you're correct. 375 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,240 And yeah, it's the middle of the night. 376 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:39,040 So at 4:48 AM, his cell phone is turned back on outside of the city, moving west by 5:40 AM. 377 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,360 It hits back in Washington, which is where he lives. 378 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:46,880 That morning he calls his family in Pennsylvania several times. 379 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,240 One of those calls lasted almost an hour. 380 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,880 Who knows what they were talking about, but they didn't really get into that. 381 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,080 Fast forward to 7:30 AM, Bethany calls her dad. 382 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,800 They're still texting all the roommates. 383 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,880 Obviously, no one's answering. 384 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,680 After 9 AM, this is weird. 385 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,520 This is where things start getting really odd. 386 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,320 Around 9 AM, he drives past that house. 387 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,880 His cell phone pings there and then he returns home. 388 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:21,640 And then when he gets home around 10:30 AM, he takes a selfie in his bathroom mirror with 389 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,560 a thumbs up smiling. 390 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,920 And I don't think it's weird that he went back. 391 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,400 He wanted to see what was going on. 392 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,400 You don't? 393 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:30,400 No. 394 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,240 It's an easy way to see what's going on. 395 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,120 Have they called the cops yet? 396 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:37,120 Have they been there? 397 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:38,440 Do they know anyone? 398 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,440 What I've done? 399 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,440 Yeah. 400 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,440 Let's see what's going on. 401 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,640 I don't, I make a lot of sense out of that. 402 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,040 That really does. 403 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,040 It's balsy. 404 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,240 Yeah, that's good. 405 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,960 You also see a lot of murderers who will take stuff from there. 406 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:57,800 They will return to the site, especially if they have buried someone out in a place. 407 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,760 They sometimes they return. 408 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:00,760 It is balsy. 409 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:01,760 It is. 410 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,440 And I just feel like there's too much risk right after it happened. 411 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,400 But you know, he got lucky and the one I called the cops. 412 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,040 So he's well way to men. 413 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,040 His balsy move. 414 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,520 Do you think possibly he had anxiety? 415 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:20,160 He was anxious and so he couldn't help but return because the drive in to and from and 416 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:26,760 then the you turn was he maybe dealing with like the cops had thought whether he was going 417 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,120 to actually do it or not. 418 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,600 Maybe this dude maybe Bryan has anxiety. 419 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,120 We need to ask a doctor to sociopaths get anxious. 420 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,120 I don't know. 421 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:35,120 I don't know either. 422 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:36,120 That is good. 423 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:37,720 You want me to Google it? 424 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:38,720 Sure. 425 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,920 I'll keep I'll keep going while you check on that. 426 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:49,120 And then an hour after he takes that selfie approximately his phone hits outside of his 427 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:50,520 area. 428 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,080 They're wondering if he was hiding evidence. 429 00:25:54,080 --> 00:26:00,880 Maybe his clothes because obviously what he did there was a lot of blood like Amy said. 430 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:08,680 So maybe that's what he was doing an hour after Dylan at 11.30 a.m. 431 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:16,800 Now we're talking seven hours after this incident Dylan asks her friend to come over and asks 432 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,640 her to have her boyfriend come. 433 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,160 So they get there. 434 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,400 All four of them go upstairs. 435 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:29,960 Of course they see Zana again and now she's like in shock what how she's still laying in 436 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,000 the same position. 437 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,000 You know they didn't say exactly what the boyfriend saw. 438 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:42,520 But at that point they said he looked white and told them to get out of the house and call 439 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,520 911. 440 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,560 So he obviously saw something they weren't specific and didn't say what. 441 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,520 But so at that point 11.56 a.m. 442 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:57,600 Bethany calls 911 and tells them that the roommate is passed out and won't wake up because they 443 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,960 still don't know what that boyfriend saw. 444 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,840 They just know he said call 911. 445 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,900 They still Bethany and Dylan don't know what happened even when they called 911 at almost 446 00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:10,300 12 o'clock now. 447 00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:12,060 These poor children. 448 00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:13,060 It's horrible. 449 00:27:13,060 --> 00:27:15,480 Like they're never going to be okay. 450 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,160 Well they're at the part of their life. 451 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,280 It's supposed to be the best times of your life. 452 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,920 You're learning about yourself. 453 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,280 You're with your friends. 454 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,680 You're having a good time. 455 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,400 So to have something like this happen right in the middle of it. 456 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:35,560 It's important to be the one that maybe he didn't experience but he saw what he saw when 457 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:36,880 he went in that room. 458 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,600 That's a lot. 459 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,800 And Google yes. 460 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:49,040 I didn't know this but there's different levels of psychopathy primary and secondary. 461 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,040 If you experience primary. 462 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,040 This person is primary. 463 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,040 Oh. 464 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,040 For sure right? 465 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,040 I don't know. 466 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,040 Primary. 467 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,040 Okay. 468 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:03,600 If it's primary they tend to show lower trait of anxiety aligning with the traditional 469 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,000 stereotype. 470 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,600 But if you're secondary you're prone to high anxiety. 471 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,400 So it just depends what level we're dealing with here. 472 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,400 Again we need to know that. 473 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:16,400 So it is possible. 474 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:17,400 Yeah. 475 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,400 That was worth the Google search for sure. 476 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,400 So okay. 477 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,320 They've done the 911 call and now we're to. 478 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:31,200 Now Brian he's back on Google himself and he's searching about the killing. 479 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,800 Bundy and there's also other searches about the knife just like the one that was used. 480 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,920 He is looking to get the sheath again. 481 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,080 He puts it in his car. 482 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,080 He takes it out. 483 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,080 He puts it in. 484 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,600 I think there was a little bit of wait. 485 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:49,600 Okay. 486 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,120 Now that I'm saying that he's decisive. 487 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,240 Does do you notice all the looking back and forth about the sheath? 488 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,440 How decisive he was about purchasing it at that point. 489 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,320 So I mean maybe that maybe it all just goes into not anxiety. 490 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:07,320 Maybe indecisive. 491 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,320 It's hard to make the choices or make his mind up. 492 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:17,360 But if you bought that type of knife and he now feels like he succeeded in this murder, 493 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,480 you need the sheath to go with it but still. 494 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,000 And we don't know he probably got rid of that knife because why would you keep evidence 495 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,800 like that? 496 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:35,240 If he's looking for the exact same knife, it would make you think that he felt very successful 497 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:41,960 in what he did and that that's going to be his preferred method probably. 498 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,800 They said that as well. 499 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:52,080 Be preparing for the next one because we was doing a lot of searches on Ted Bundy. 500 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:58,360 And I do, I know I'm getting off topic here, but I do agree with the officers as well about 501 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,400 Maddie possibly being the main target. 502 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:09,800 I'm not even sure if Zanna and her boyfriend or Kayleigh would have been murdered if circumstances 503 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,760 hadn't worked out the way they had. 504 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,880 He goes straight from downstairs all the way up to Maddie's room which was on the third 505 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,200 floor. 506 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,200 Straight there. 507 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,320 If he went to her room, she was the only one in the bed. 508 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,760 She was the only one sleeping there. 509 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,560 He stabbed her, did it, whatever he was planning to do with that knife. 510 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:34,960 He could have easily silently slipped back down through, back through that door and no one 511 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,440 would have ever known. 512 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:43,240 They would have just woke up and went into her room and she was laying there, sadly, violently 513 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,240 murdered. 514 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,880 I do, I kind of agree with that. 515 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,760 That makes a lot of sense to me. 516 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,400 Again, it's something we're never going to know. 517 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,360 No, but I don't know everything. 518 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,320 It's kind of starting as you kind of think through it more after watching it and sitting here 519 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,120 talking with you. 520 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:03,040 It does make a little more sense as when they, why they come to those conclusions if you 521 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,440 see what I'm saying. 522 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,440 Yeah. 523 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,440 It's, it's wild, especially like trying to get the exact same knife. 524 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,800 What were you going to do with that, Brian? 525 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:19,240 He saved reporting info and his phone and more than 60 times. 526 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,080 He was watching YouTube videos on serial killers. 527 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,960 Again, we know he focused really big on Ted Bundy. 528 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:34,240 Now Brian also went as far as to switch his plates from Pennsylvania to Washington. 529 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,680 He tries to delete his Amazon search history. 530 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,200 That was, yeah, that was a really, really crazy thing. 531 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,680 Why are you trying to delete that? 532 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,120 But then again, here you are trying to look at the same kind of knife that was used as a 533 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,440 murder weapon. 534 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,280 Now there's no hits on the knife DNA. 535 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:54,800 They used another service. 536 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,480 It's not supposed to be used generally. 537 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:04,200 It's, it's just not, they don't go into the DNA into like, and just, and such. 538 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,520 It's not a mystery DNA, I should say. 539 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,040 But this isn't actually law. 540 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,720 So the FBI was able to move forward and use my heritage. 541 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,720 It's kind of suggested that they don't use it. 542 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,320 But like I said, it's not totally the law. 543 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,680 So you can kind of walk around that when it kind of suits you. 544 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,680 DNA hits to Bryan. 545 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,520 I kind of, I'm glad they used it because it was easy to track down. 546 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,400 Okay, well, we're looking at this family. 547 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,120 And then they can go, they can kind of look more into who's in that family. 548 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,640 And you have Bryan. 549 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,760 Everything starts making a lot of sense. 550 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,960 Bryan goes home to Pennsylvania and his dad starts wondering if it possibly could be 551 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,240 him. 552 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,600 Family says he's acting weird, sorting garbage. 553 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:59,880 He's wearing gloves whenever he takes things outside, especially like trash or handling 554 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:06,640 anything that I guess you would say possibly the cops could have the chance to take from 555 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,560 the outside legally. 556 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,240 His sister tells dad that she thinks he could be involved as well. 557 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,320 They're really starting to question. 558 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,360 The police stop in an immunist dad in Indiana for bed driving. 559 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,720 He was following too closely. 560 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,320 It was on that same trip, a little bit down the road. 561 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,320 That happened again. 562 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,800 So two times he was stopped for following too closely. 563 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:37,040 All of the glove wearin and the try and to hide his fingerprints and DNA did not work. 564 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:43,920 The police grabbed his trash and in it they are able to match the DNA to his father. 565 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,480 And that was from the sheath that was left at the scene. 566 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,480 They caught it on the little piece where it unbuttoned where you could take the knife out. 567 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,240 And while ago I said there was no DNA found on the knife, I didn't mean to say that we're 568 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,720 still dealing with the sheath. 569 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,280 Remember we didn't have the knife just the sheath that was left laying in Maddie's bed. 570 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:08,480 End of December, the police get him at his parents house and he is charged with four counts 571 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,480 murder. 572 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,000 One count of burglary. 573 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,000 I can't say that word right. 574 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,000 Burglary. 575 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,000 Burglary. 576 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,240 You know what I'm getting ready to say. 577 00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:17,240 Thank you Dawn. 578 00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:19,040 You said it for me. 579 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,240 He could face the death penalty if he is convicted. 580 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:24,840 And let's hope that he is convicted. 581 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,360 I really, I don't know. 582 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,680 We're going to get into that. 583 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,000 Now his attorney is trying to get the sheath DNA dismissed. 584 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,880 He said because it was illegal, but the judge will allow it to be in the case. 585 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,680 How is it not legal? 586 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,640 Are they saying that they obtained it illegally? 587 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,480 Is that what they're trying to say? 588 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,360 No they're saying because it's the my heritage thing that it shouldn't be admissible. 589 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,000 Somehow I messed that part. 590 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:56,320 Well okay, it's not, that's where they could still walk around it because remember it's 591 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,760 not against the law. 592 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,200 It's just not recommended that you do so. 593 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,640 So they could still do it. 594 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:09,760 Now they are also claiming his defense that there is an alternate suspect. 595 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,440 Where is your alternate suspect? 596 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:12,440 I would love. 597 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,280 I mean, let's hear it. 598 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:20,040 If there is someone that did it and Bryan didn't do it, then of course by all means let's 599 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,040 look that way. 600 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,040 Don't you agree? 601 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:28,120 Well, yeah, but I think it's newer information maybe or it's confidential. 602 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,120 I don't know. 603 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,440 They didn't really elaborate. 604 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,800 So that's why I think it's newer information. 605 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:33,800 Maybe. 606 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,440 Yeah, maybe that's something they're going to get into during the trial. 607 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,240 I mean, but if there is someone that you can prove that is a better suspect than Bryan, 608 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:42,960 I'm all for here in it. 609 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,120 But right now it kind of seems like Bryan, my friend 610 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,440 shame on you. 611 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,400 Now we did watch this on Dateline like I said, but there is also Max. 612 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,200 You can watch the Idaho College murders. 613 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:57,480 That one is a pretty good one. 614 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,440 It's also we've discussed Max several times on here. 615 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,920 And whenever you watch Max, I feel like you pretty well. 616 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,360 You get a good show. 617 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,360 They put out good content. 618 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:08,360 I agree. 619 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,360 All right. 620 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,840 I already know what you think, but tell me. 621 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:11,840 Did you do it? 622 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,840 Yeah. 623 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:18,440 What happened in his earlier years though? 624 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:23,800 I feel like something, I'm not sympathizing with him, but I feel like something's wrong. 625 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,680 Well, and you know what else they didn't cover that I'm really curious and I need to look 626 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:29,680 up. 627 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:30,840 How did he grow up? 628 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,840 Was his upbringing totally normal? 629 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:33,920 Right. 630 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,800 How was his relationship with his mother? 631 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,040 There's a lot of things that I would also like to know. 632 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,520 And I'm not trying to sympathize with him at all. 633 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,600 I'm just trying to understand like who hurt you? 634 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:54,520 Because if you can go into a place and let's just pretend like, okay, let's take it back 635 00:36:54,520 --> 00:37:00,880 to when he was making his plan or he was deciding what he was going to do. 636 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:08,600 Who hurt you or what is wrong to make you want to go into someone's home in the middle 637 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,800 of the night while they're sleeping and attack them when they're at their most vulnerable? 638 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:22,000 I'll be curious too when the case comes out to learn more about that month in December 639 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:29,040 that just kind of what developed with his dad and his sister to make them suspicious. 640 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,280 I'm curious about that as well. 641 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:37,240 If they ever said anything to anyone else about him, did they ever talk to the police? 642 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:38,240 I don't know. 643 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:39,240 They didn't really talk about that. 644 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:40,240 I agree. 645 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:41,240 Yeah. 646 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:43,440 And I would like to know how his relationship was with his sister. 647 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:50,640 Like, was this a shot when she come to that conclusion or was it just kind of like, well, 648 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,840 you know, Bryan's weird anyways? 649 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,080 You know, I've always seen something strange in him and maybe he did do this. 650 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,200 I'm, I've, yeah, I'd like to know and maybe, maybe that could be something that we have 651 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,680 just missed. 652 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:11,760 I'm not sure, but I feel like Dateline did an amazing job of keeping on track while also 653 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:17,200 educating someone who has not known about the case or the trial. 654 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,520 I just, I think, yeah. 655 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:27,080 Sometimes I don't even know what to say like these kids and again, their kids. 656 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,600 Just the part about the middle of the night, I think it's maybe the most disturbing part 657 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,240 of the whole thing because these people are sleeping. 658 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,640 I mean, obviously one of them wasn't. 659 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:46,920 But coming in while someone's sleeping, I feel like really just is the most amount of 660 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:47,920 weird rage. 661 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:48,920 You know what I mean? 662 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:54,720 No one's currently, you're not in a situation where you had an altercation. 663 00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:57,320 This was premeditated. 664 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:04,320 This was in the middle of the night when no one's around you, no one pissed you off in the 665 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,320 moment. 666 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:11,360 You did this with a clear conscience while people were sleeping and I think that is probably 667 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,800 the most disturbing part for me. 668 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,040 It's balsey as hell. 669 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,120 You have no idea what you're walking into when you walk into a home in the dark in the 670 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,120 middle of the night. 671 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,520 I know, but if he went straight to Maddie's room, he knew where it was. 672 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:33,880 That theory that maybe he called those noise complaints when there wasn't even noise to 673 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:40,480 slip in and slip out really fast because if the person did be lying to her room, there's 674 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,840 no other way for them to have known that. 675 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:48,320 I mean, I guess maybe from social media, like you said, but you'd still have to know how 676 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:49,320 to get there. 677 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:50,320 And yeah. 678 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:51,320 Yeah. 679 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,320 And maybe they did. 680 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:58,080 I know, maybe one of them had a video where they walked up their stairs to their room. 681 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,880 I mean, maybe it's possible. 682 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,640 I'm not saying that couldn't have happened because it could. 683 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:09,760 Well, he could have also maybe remember if you go back to the mother saying that she had 684 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,560 been there when somebody would show up to the party that wasn't welcomed. 685 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,760 Who's to say he didn't show up there? 686 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,000 Right. 687 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,840 Maybe he knew how to get through because he'd been there long enough to maybe make it 688 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,560 through the house and they found him kicked him out and it pissed him off. 689 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:27,560 I know. 690 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,600 I feel like he would have stood out though as being older, yeah. 691 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:31,960 A little older. 692 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:32,960 And but maybe not. 693 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:33,960 I don't know. 694 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:34,960 Well, let's go back. 695 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,640 He did make it to that one party. 696 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:44,760 And remember the guys they thought that he was kind of awkward, but I remember in the show 697 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,600 that one dude was like, okay, well, maybe he's not so bad. 698 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,640 He's over there getting chicks, you know. 699 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:50,640 So. 700 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:51,640 Yeah. 701 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:57,400 He's got a lot of age and awkward and not the proper age, but still was able to fit in 702 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,760 long enough at that party to get a girl's phone number. 703 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,560 I think for me 100% I think he did it. 704 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,200 Not 99, 100. 705 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:13,120 It's not even just about the weird searches online because that's almost impossible to 706 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,560 prove because of the type of schooling he was in, right? 707 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:25,160 It's more about the driving around, why is your phone pinging 23 times by their house? 708 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:35,440 I think of all the evidence that probably stands out to me the most of proof that he was 709 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,240 stalking them or something. 710 00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:38,240 I agree. 711 00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,160 You're around there too much, man. 712 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,280 Way too much. 713 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:48,600 So I think he saw probably Maddie online on Instagram, TikTok, wherever, became obsessed 714 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:56,600 with her, kept driving around and seeing her more and more around whether it was on social 715 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,520 media or whether it was the 23 times that he drove by their house in a short few months. 716 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:03,520 That was that. 717 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:10,880 I think his internal psychosis rage took over and for whatever reason, that was what 718 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,800 put him over the edge. 719 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,080 Obviously, she didn't even know him. 720 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:16,960 It's nothing that anyone did. 721 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,640 It's his bad brain. 722 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:25,480 He became obsessed and that was that and the rest of them, unfortunately, were just in 723 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,640 the same house and why he walked by Dylan. 724 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,520 I don't know. 725 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:33,520 Maybe he was exhausted. 726 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,920 I mean, honestly, maybe it was literally just that. 727 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,680 Maybe he was like, I can't do another fight. 728 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,200 I don't know either. 729 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,640 He'd done what he was there to do. 730 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:45,640 Yeah. 731 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:53,560 There are just too many drive bys in the area, the whole driving back by the house at 9 o'clock 732 00:42:53,560 --> 00:43:00,040 that morning, seeing no police activity and going home and taking a picture of yourself 733 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,840 in a mirror with a thumbs up. 734 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,480 It's just, it's not coincidental to me. 735 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:10,080 And I like tell the officer noticed like before his pictures were creepy. 736 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:16,000 He looked depressed and dark and down just like you would expect him to look awkward and 737 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,600 you know, he just didn't have any, he didn't have any bit of self confidence. 738 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:28,240 But after these murders, after he goes back and he sees, okay, well, maybe this is going 739 00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:30,320 to, this is going to be all right. 740 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,320 He goes home with all the confidence in the world and takes that selfie. 741 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:40,040 Right, he's got on a light colored button down shirt. 742 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,400 Yes, he looks like did his hair. 743 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,520 He looked like he was taking a photo and sending it to his mother before he was getting ready 744 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,520 to go to a job interview that he was excited about. 745 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,320 For those reasons, that's why I 100% think he did it. 746 00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:00,160 And I don't see how he doesn't get found guilty. 747 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,640 I don't see how. 748 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:02,640 But shit happens. 749 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:08,760 You never know sometimes, sometimes, sometimes jurors get it wrong. 750 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:15,080 Sometimes jurors get it wrong and sometimes balls get dropped during investigations or in 751 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,080 the trial. 752 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,600 We'll see August 11th is when it starts. 753 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:26,360 And I mean, I just really hope that they can put some closure to this case. 754 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:34,360 That's not going to put closure to the families, but with this part closed, they can find a 755 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,720 way to finally start grieving. 756 00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:39,400 Yeah, and I'm glad they knocked that house down. 757 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:40,400 Yes. 758 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,800 It doesn't have any business staying up. 759 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:52,400 Can you imagine how bloody it was to have the blood running down the side of the house 760 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:53,400 on the outside? 761 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:58,840 I thought that at the time, I was like, God, whatever happened in there was bad. 762 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,160 If you can see that on the outside. 763 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,080 It's horrible. 764 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,400 Zanna was killed on the second floor. 765 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,400 We're going to talk about this. 766 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,640 Zanna was killed on the second floor. 767 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,240 And Maddie and Kaylee are Zanna and what was his name? 768 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:15,240 Ethan. 769 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:16,240 Ethan. 770 00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:17,240 Sorry. 771 00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:19,440 Zana and Ethan were killed on the second floor. 772 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,040 Maddie and Kaylee were killed up on the third floor. 773 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,040 I forgot to do a graphic warning. 774 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,040 It's okay. 775 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,040 Sorry. 776 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,120 Yeah, this time I'm getting a little bit graphic. 777 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:36,120 But for them to be that far up and for blood to be found dripping down the base of the 778 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,360 house, yeah. 779 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:43,640 That's probably when I heard about the story and I haven't, like I said in the beginning, 780 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,400 I haven't really paid a lot of attention to this story for whatever reason. 781 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:48,400 I don't know. 782 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:54,120 But that was the one thing I remember from at the time when this happened was what the 783 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:55,520 outside of the house looked like. 784 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,440 A lot with the blood. 785 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:02,320 And thinking I seen the diagram of the house, where was that at? 786 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,840 It was on the side of the house, wasn't it the blood? 787 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,600 Oh, I don't remember. 788 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,000 I was trying to figure out who that would possibly be. 789 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,520 What room it would be by that? 790 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,880 It breaks my heart for those children. 791 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,960 Those kids should have never had to experience that. 792 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,360 I heard people so evil. 793 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:19,840 I don't know. 794 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:26,680 And they had interviews with Maddie's old boss and Maddie's best friend's mom. 795 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,120 They were both on the Dateline episode, especially with a friend's mom. 796 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:31,120 You can just tell. 797 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:32,120 She was loved. 798 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,120 It's still two years later, so traumatic. 799 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:41,480 And probably always will be again, I know we talked about this twice, but the trauma that 800 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,960 Dylan and Bethany are going to have forever is horrible. 801 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:51,280 Yeah, I mean, there's no, I never want to say closure. 802 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,080 You can close the case on this trial. 803 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,320 He's guilty or what have you. 804 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:03,280 But it's time for the family to be able to start healing themselves instead of worrying 805 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,280 about justice. 806 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:09,280 And I always think about that, even when there's a mass shooting, which happens like every 807 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:15,560 day lately, I feel like the PTSD and the trauma that the people around and family and 808 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,160 friends and other victims that didn't pass away. 809 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,920 Like, it's not just about victims. 810 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:31,880 It's about their extended network of people or people who were at the location when whatever 811 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,040 happened. 812 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:39,200 And I just know for myself, even when I was held at gunpoint in an armed robbery a couple 813 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,280 of years ago, there weren't even any gunshots. 814 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:47,040 And I'm still like, I still struggle with that all the time. 815 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:55,360 I definitely always feel for the people who were in the area when stuff goes down. 816 00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:00,900 Yeah, because it's traumatic and you don't know what any of those individuals have already 817 00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:03,480 seen in their life before that. 818 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:09,640 So yeah, I feel like when we end these episodes, I'm always like, okay, me back here in a 819 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:15,000 week after we just talked about this horribly depressing story. 820 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,000 Yeah. 821 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,200 But I mean, that's what we're here to do. 822 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,680 Maybe some of you have not heard about this case. 823 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:27,120 Like Dawn, I've been kind of following it here and there and was like, hey, let's do this 824 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:28,120 one. 825 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,120 She hadn't heard of it. 826 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:30,120 I was like, well, great. 827 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,120 Watch Dateline because it's going to catch you up. 828 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:40,760 I feel like these cases need to be talked about because you can't just live in this little 829 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:47,640 small-minded world and think that everybody around you has the same intent and thinking 830 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,520 that you do because they don't. 831 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,920 There's a lot of negative and evil in this world. 832 00:48:52,920 --> 00:49:01,280 And I, let's just say after all the true crime that I do watch and listen to, I definitely, 833 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:06,360 when I'm out of the house or in the house, when I'm alone, I look at things totally different 834 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:07,360 now. 835 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:14,520 I watch my surroundings and I just now realize as I've got older, what people are capable 836 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,240 of and they're not sweet and innocent. 837 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:19,200 Like, I feel like they should be. 838 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:24,440 There's some people in this world that would be more than happy to hurt me. 839 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:29,000 We don't want people to be paranoid, but we want you to be cautious and safe. 840 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:30,000 And informed? 841 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,000 Yes. 842 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,800 Because you can't live in a world and think, well, nothing like that will ever happen to me. 843 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:41,080 Because you know what every one of these children, kids, teenagers, whatever you would like 844 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:47,000 to refer to them as, they were just starting their life and they didn't think this would 845 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,320 happen to them either. 846 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:49,320 It sucks. 847 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:50,320 Okay. 848 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,720 Well, meet back here in a week. 849 00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:56,520 Not said as quite as lively as normal. 850 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:57,520 No. 851 00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:58,520 Thanks, everyone. 852 00:49:58,520 --> 00:49:59,920 We'll see you soon. 853 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:00,920 Bye, guys. 854 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,080 Bye. 855 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,560 There has been an update since Amy and I recorded this episode. 856 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:13,800 So we wanted to include that on July 2, 2025, Bryan Koberger accepted a plea agreement and 857 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:18,720 his sentencing will be July 23, 2025. 858 00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:24,720 Victim impact statements will be able to be read then, which is probably traumatic and 859 00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:28,200 therapeutic at the same time. 860 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:35,320 He pled guilty and that removed the possibility of the death penalty. 861 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:40,760 And so he is facing a life without parole for each of the four victims plus 10 years for 862 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,600 burglary. 863 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:49,000 And he cannot appeal and he will never be eligible for parole. 864 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:54,560 So his family made a statement asking for privacy and saying that they are not releasing 865 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,080 any comments or taking any questions. 866 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,720 And the families of the victims. 867 00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:07,040 So from what I've read online, they were sent an email a few days before this happened, 868 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,480 telling them that this was a possibility. 869 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:15,520 And Kayleigh's family has made some public statements saying that they told prosecutors 870 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,240 that they were a hard-know on any kind of deal. 871 00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:25,040 And the other families seem to have some mixed reactions from what I've read. 872 00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:30,720 But the consensus does seem to be that they feel like they were not treated well by the 873 00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:38,160 prosecutor's office, which to me sounds like trauma on top of horrible trauma. 874 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,520 We're definitely thinking about all of these families. 875 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:47,120 This is a horrible situation and definitely an unexpected outcome because he was pretty 876 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,080 adamant that he did not do this. 877 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,520 And this took a very surprising turn. 878 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,200 So we'll see what happens July 23rd. 879 00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:01,520 I am guessing since he pled guilty that he will get four counts of life without parole 880 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,160 plus the 10 for burglary. 881 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,160 But we'll see. 882 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,480 You just never know. 883 00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:15,240 So thank you for listening and we'll see you in a week. 884 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:17,720 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. 885 00:52:17,720 --> 00:52:23,920 Keep on the lookout for our next episode and stay gruesome. 886 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:33,920 [Music]