Ep39: Minisode: Jesse Mack Butler

Join Amy & Dawn as they unpack the shocking and still-unfolding case of Jesse Mack Butler

Transcript

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 [Music] 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome to me, where we talk about movies and shows 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,800 that cover true crime, paranormal, and horror. 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,600 I am one of your hosts, Dawn. 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,400 I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,400 genre. 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,000 Especially those 80s classics. 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,720 A quick fun fact about me, I have a very extensive crystal collection. 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:37,720 Hello, I'm Amy. 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,280 I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,000 A few fun facts about me. 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,000 I'm an empath. 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,120 I collect old dolls and you know, I've never flown on an airplane. 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,440 Can you believe that? 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,920 Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are. 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,680 Talk Gruesome to me. 17 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:03,840 Hello, today we are looking at a case out of Stillwater, Oklahoma. 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:11,240 This case has stirred anger, legal questions, and community reckoning, and you will hear 19 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:12,480 why. 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:20,240 It centers on Jesse Mack Butler, who is a high school athlete, whose actions and legal 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:27,480 outcome have ignited debate about privilege, justice, and accountability. 22 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,520 Okay, so let's just start with the facts. 23 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,240 The case is still evolving. 24 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,720 We'll walk through what's publicly known and what remains unclear, how the system responded 25 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,960 and how some are going to say the system failed. 26 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:50,120 We'll also explore the wider context, institutional ties, community expectations, the voices 27 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,160 of victims, and the question of power. 28 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:59,960 I just want to give a disclaimer this episode could be considered graphic and it will contain 29 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:06,840 discussions of sexual violence and maybe disturbing to some listeners. 30 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,360 Just keep that in mind. 31 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:14,000 I'm going to play a small part of a Fox News interview and this is with the Oklahoma State 32 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,040 Representative, JJ Humphrey. 33 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:22,560 And you can hear that he is calling for an investigation into this case. 34 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:29,240 We need an investigation into what's actually going on and get evidence to prove that this 35 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:35,520 court is corrupt and that they are letting sex offenders go. 36 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:36,520 That's tough to listen to. 37 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:43,600 I mean, it's like he's fighting a losing battle and he wants to just get his voice hired, 38 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:44,600 you know? 39 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:49,800 Now the individual at the center of this story is Jesse Mack Butler. 40 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,440 Jesse is a teenager in Stillwater, Oklahoma. 41 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,880 At the age of 17, he was arrested on multiple felony charges. 42 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:04,800 That's including rape, sexual battery, domestic assault by strangulation and that's not 43 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:05,800 it. 44 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:06,800 There's actually more. 45 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:15,640 In early 2024, allegations arose from two separate relationships with 16 year old girls and this 46 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:18,400 is according to court documents. 47 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:25,280 One victim alleged repeated sexual assaults and physical violence, including being choked 48 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,720 to unconsciousness. 49 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:33,160 The initial police affidavit says that the first victim told officers when she tried to stop 50 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:40,120 his sexual advances, he put his arms around her neck and strangled her until she lost consciousness. 51 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:46,000 Her doctor said that she needed surgery to repair the damage that was done to her neck 52 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:52,640 and said that if he had choked her, get this just 30 seconds longer, she would have passed 53 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:53,640 away. 54 00:03:53,640 --> 00:04:02,000 The second victim described things similar to the first victim, including intimidation, 55 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,120 threat and physical force. 56 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:13,960 Court records indicate that there was incriminating video evidence found on Butler's phone showing 57 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,520 the choking. 58 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:22,120 By March 2025, Butler was facing 10 counts of rape-related charges, including first degree 59 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:30,880 attempted rape, rape by instrumentation, sexual battery, forcible oral sodomy, domestic 60 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,880 assault and battery by strangulation. 61 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:41,720 The story attracted attention not just because of the obvious severity of these alleged acts, 62 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:49,000 but also because his status as a high school athlete and the family and their institutional 63 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,000 ties that are involved. 64 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:57,160 Yeah, one of the important pieces of this is Jesse Butler's father is Mack Butler 65 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:03,680 senior. He's a longtime college football administrator, including years as director of football 66 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,360 operations at Oklahoma State University. 67 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:14,720 That means the family lived in Stillwater, Oklahoma, which is a community where athletic success 68 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,480 and institutional standing matters. 69 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:24,720 And the son of a prominent athletic operations staffer who obviously was also a high school 70 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,160 athlete. 71 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:32,800 His background set certain expectations, and it also opens questions about how this case 72 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:33,800 was handled. 73 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:40,520 Yeah, the legal classification of teen charged during the process, he was originally charged 74 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:47,320 as an adult, then reclassified as a youthful offender, which significantly changed possible 75 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:48,720 sentencing. 76 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:54,720 This happened because he struck a deal with the district, and that immediately changed 77 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,880 the classification. 78 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:03,320 Some critics argue that his family's standing in ties to the athletic world may have influenced 79 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:04,680 the case. 80 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:12,240 For example, in how the youth offender status was granted, or in plea negotiations, I want 81 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:18,720 to be clear though there is no public proof of undue influence yet, but the appearance 82 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,160 of privilege is strong and has stirred public debate. 83 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:28,920 Definitely, even one state representative declared the process corrupt, saying it reeks 84 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,480 of favoritism. 85 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:36,520 In October 2025, yes, I said 2025, this just happened. 86 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:44,120 News broke that Jesse Butler had pleaded no contest to multiple felony counts. 87 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:51,120 And under the plea deal, his status was as a youthful offender, as Amy said earlier. 88 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,760 What does this mean? 89 00:06:52,760 --> 00:07:02,440 This means he avoided immediate prison, and instead, he will be under rehabilitative supervision 90 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,200 through the juvenile system until his 19th birthday. 91 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:12,280 The potential prison sentence he faced originally was up to 78 years. 92 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,480 Yet under the youth offender program, that sentence is suspended. 93 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:23,040 So as long as he complies with conditions which are a community service and a rehabilitation 94 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:30,320 plan, this basically means a year of community service, and he does not have to register as 95 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,120 a sex offender. 96 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:38,920 The victims, families and local community members have obviously expressed outrage. 97 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,520 I want to read a little snippet from one of the victim impact statements. 98 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,960 So this is a direct quote. 99 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,280 "You didn't just strangle me with your hands. 100 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:57,160 You strangled my voice, my joy, my ability to feel safe in my own body." 101 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,080 My heart just breaks for her. 102 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:05,400 Also, others, many feel justice was not done, particularly given the severity of the 103 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:11,960 aledged acts, including that's choking to unconsciousness and threat to kill if the victim 104 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:13,360 spoke out. 105 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,080 The case is reunited discussion about whether youthful offenders should face adult charges 106 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:26,440 for serious crimes and how family and institutional power may affect outcomes. 107 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:33,160 Let's dig deeper into the question of how the personal and institutional ties may have 108 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,200 shaped this case. 109 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:43,360 Jessie's father, as Amy said earlier, Mack Butler Sr had an influential role at OSU athletics 110 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:49,200 and a respected resume in the coaching and administrative world. 111 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:57,760 The shift from adult charges to youthful offender status came at a key moment in the legal process. 112 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:05,160 And the plea deal avoided prison time in favor of rehabilitation and a suspended sentence. 113 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:11,400 Yeah, and those elements, they raised questions and some of those questions are, was the youthful 114 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,600 offender designation driven purely by law? 115 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:22,640 Because the acts occurred before the age of 18, or did an external influence play a role. 116 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:28,600 Also did the institution, the school, the athletic apartment, local community, strive to 117 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:36,200 protect its reputation and that would be why they would maybe push for a more favorable outcome. 118 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:42,280 You can look at did the victim's welfare and public safety take secondary priority to 119 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:48,880 preserve in the athlete's future and reputation of the ones who are connected to him. 120 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:54,420 The prosecutor's office has defended its decision, saying it followed state law regarding 121 00:09:54,420 --> 00:10:00,800 youthful offenders and that the law allows for rehabilitation rather than incarceration 122 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,400 for minors. 123 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,800 But the counter argument is about optics and fairness. 124 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:12,300 Other teenagers without family prestige might not get the same lineancy. 125 00:10:12,300 --> 00:10:18,180 The representative's call for a grand jury investigation shows that community trust, it's 126 00:10:18,180 --> 00:10:19,580 been broken. 127 00:10:19,580 --> 00:10:27,160 From a true crime storytelling perspective, the interplay of athletic prestige, institutional 128 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:33,700 connections, youth status and a serious crime makes this case a rich one. 129 00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:40,660 The stakes are high, the emotions raw, and the outcomes obviously are controversial. 130 00:10:40,660 --> 00:10:45,140 Yeah, now what does this case tell us about the justice system? 131 00:10:45,140 --> 00:10:46,700 Here's a few takeaways. 132 00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:53,100 The use of youthful offender status in cases of serious violent crime continues to be 133 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:54,100 contensuous. 134 00:10:54,100 --> 00:11:01,420 Institutional prestigious that would be athletic, schools, well connected families may create 135 00:11:01,420 --> 00:11:05,060 a perception of bias in the legal process. 136 00:11:05,060 --> 00:11:13,020 And also victims voices and trauma may be sidelined when systems prioritize rehabilitation 137 00:11:13,020 --> 00:11:14,820 by offenders. 138 00:11:14,820 --> 00:11:22,180 The supervision period for Butler lasts until his 19th birthday under the juvenile system. 139 00:11:22,180 --> 00:11:27,540 If he violates that, the full suspended sentence may be triggered. 140 00:11:27,540 --> 00:11:36,220 But yes, still, the public is asking, is rehabilitation enough when the harm was so great? 141 00:11:36,220 --> 00:11:43,740 And will the accountability, if something happens again, will the process be transparent? 142 00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:51,140 What will they do if, say, years from now he does offends again or someone else's hurt? 143 00:11:51,140 --> 00:11:58,820 For the victims and the community, healing isn't just about this individual case, but about 144 00:11:58,820 --> 00:12:02,260 the trust in these institutions. 145 00:12:02,260 --> 00:12:05,020 They want to see structural changes. 146 00:12:05,020 --> 00:12:07,220 How are complaints handled? 147 00:12:07,220 --> 00:12:11,180 How high school athletics programs respond? 148 00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:15,460 How victims are supported number one. 149 00:12:15,460 --> 00:12:20,380 On this podcast, Amy and I are always going to advocate for victims. 150 00:12:20,380 --> 00:12:26,500 I have to personally say, I think this is disgusting. 151 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:34,620 I hope there is an investigation into what is what I think clear corruption and the victims 152 00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:36,900 deserve no less. 153 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:44,740 What they and their families have been through and are still going through, this just happened. 154 00:12:44,740 --> 00:12:47,220 It's unfathomable. 155 00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:53,700 I want to say this is exactly why victims don't come forward. 156 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:59,540 There's actual video of him choking one of these victims. 157 00:12:59,540 --> 00:13:05,540 There is more than one victim and this kid got zero jail time. 158 00:13:05,540 --> 00:13:08,420 You took the words right out of my mouth. 159 00:13:08,420 --> 00:13:10,660 It's sickening. 160 00:13:10,660 --> 00:13:18,460 What is that telling of future victim, not necessarily his victim, but another victim of 161 00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:20,660 sexual violence? 162 00:13:20,660 --> 00:13:23,420 Who is going to support you? 163 00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:26,020 Who is going to believe you if you come forward? 164 00:13:26,020 --> 00:13:28,340 No, that's sick. 165 00:13:28,340 --> 00:13:30,980 I don't understand. 166 00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:36,700 As we're reading through this, I'm so mad right now. 167 00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:43,260 It's frustrating because like you said, there was video evidence to back up this girl's 168 00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:45,060 story. 169 00:13:45,060 --> 00:13:50,620 He's just getting community service and as long as he does okay when he's 19, he's just 170 00:13:50,620 --> 00:13:53,300 free to go do what he wants to do. 171 00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:56,460 Which is like a year or something. 172 00:13:56,460 --> 00:13:58,740 It's not that far. 173 00:13:58,740 --> 00:14:04,100 It's really no difference than being a normal teenager who has to abide by your parents' 174 00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:06,100 rules really. 175 00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:07,100 Exactly. 176 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:09,820 I just, like my blood pressure is high right now. 177 00:14:09,820 --> 00:14:11,540 I'm so pissed. 178 00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:13,700 I don't understand. 179 00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:21,700 I mean, I say I don't understand, but then I do because for example, rich people look 180 00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:23,300 what's going on with Diddy. 181 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:27,580 There was video of him as well and he's going to be out of jail in a couple years. 182 00:14:27,580 --> 00:14:33,340 Oh yeah, they sat there and watched a video of him kicking the shit out of her. 183 00:14:33,340 --> 00:14:34,340 And huh? 184 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:35,340 Yeah. 185 00:14:35,340 --> 00:14:37,980 That's what happens if you have money, guys. 186 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:38,980 That's what happens. 187 00:14:38,980 --> 00:14:42,180 Well, that's not the kind of money that I want. 188 00:14:42,180 --> 00:14:49,700 But I also believe that if someone ends up into money or something, it's going to really 189 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,500 determine on what kind of person they was before. 190 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:58,260 So I don't think I would be like that. 191 00:14:58,260 --> 00:15:03,140 I'd like to hope not because some of these individuals and in court cases like this, it's 192 00:15:03,140 --> 00:15:04,140 proven true. 193 00:15:04,140 --> 00:15:10,300 If you have enough money or enough prestige, you can get away with whatever. 194 00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:17,500 And I always think, you know, if I had all the money in the world, what would I do? 195 00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:25,420 I would definitely start an animal sanctuary and I would be giving my money away. 196 00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:26,980 Just do something to help. 197 00:15:26,980 --> 00:15:35,580 Yeah, I would not be using my money and or power to take advantage of others. 198 00:15:35,580 --> 00:15:37,980 I mean, this is next level. 199 00:15:37,980 --> 00:15:39,780 It's not even taking advantage of others. 200 00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:42,900 It's just being a complete psychopath criminal. 201 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:45,820 But yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't understand. 202 00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:49,220 I don't understand the ruling. 203 00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:56,060 I just don't understand how this is okay and what makes me comfortable and standing on 204 00:15:56,060 --> 00:16:03,340 what I believe and speaking about what I believe so firmly is because there is video. 205 00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:07,980 There you can look at it with your own eyes to back up what she said. 206 00:16:07,980 --> 00:16:14,020 And then you also have a doctor who has to, I'm not sure if he performed the surgery or 207 00:16:14,020 --> 00:16:21,380 referred her out to a surgeon, but they had to correct what had been hurt in her neck. 208 00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:24,140 And it wouldn't have been much longer. 209 00:16:24,140 --> 00:16:29,700 What 30 seconds did I say if he would have kept strangling her that she would not be here 210 00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:31,500 anymore? 211 00:16:31,500 --> 00:16:32,500 That's violent. 212 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:39,580 Yeah, and shout out to JJ Humphrey for using his voice as a state representative to try 213 00:16:39,580 --> 00:16:42,540 to get this investigation happening. 214 00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:46,660 Absolutely, we definitely need more just like him. 215 00:16:46,660 --> 00:16:51,300 Yeah, and if this case speaks to you, do the same. 216 00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:54,100 Post on your social, get the word out there. 217 00:16:54,100 --> 00:17:00,340 I would imagine the more people that they hear from the more likely it is that this investigation 218 00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:01,340 could happen. 219 00:17:01,340 --> 00:17:05,820 Oh, yeah, and I'm sure I don't, we would have to go dig in or it wouldn't be too hard 220 00:17:05,820 --> 00:17:11,020 if I'm, but there is a way to call somebody and demand something to be done. 221 00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:13,020 People started doing that. 222 00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:14,180 I mean, you never know. 223 00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:15,660 I don't know. 224 00:17:15,660 --> 00:17:22,900 I'll make a post at some point after this goes alive and I'll find that information and 225 00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:24,060 put it up for people. 226 00:17:24,060 --> 00:17:25,060 Perfect. 227 00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:26,060 Yeah, that's a great idea. 228 00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:28,500 Yeah, definitely do that. 229 00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:34,100 But thanks for joining us with this deep dive on the case of Jesse Mack Butler. 230 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:43,860 It's a story of power, privilege, trauma, and the blurred lines between youth and accountability. 231 00:17:43,860 --> 00:17:50,380 And if you are someone that you know is affected by sexual violence, please reach out for help 232 00:17:50,380 --> 00:17:51,380 and support. 233 00:17:51,380 --> 00:17:55,460 There are anonymous places that you can go to. 234 00:17:55,460 --> 00:18:01,340 And once this airs, I will give that information out for people as well because I want people 235 00:18:01,340 --> 00:18:02,340 to have that. 236 00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:09,860 If there's, I don't even know what the chances are, but if there are any of the victims that 237 00:18:09,860 --> 00:18:19,340 hear this, we are 100% behind you and we'll try to get more people to get this investigation 238 00:18:19,340 --> 00:18:20,340 to happen. 239 00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:21,740 Absolutely. 240 00:18:21,740 --> 00:18:29,580 And if you are a victim of this or have been, please take care of yourself. 241 00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:34,740 If you need someone to talk to, there's plenty of places like Dawn said that you can go and 242 00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:36,740 it's confidential. 243 00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:38,260 Get your body checked out. 244 00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:40,740 Make sure your health as well. 245 00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:44,860 And just look for other ways of support. 246 00:18:44,860 --> 00:18:47,100 It's okay to tell people. 247 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:48,340 Yes. 248 00:18:48,340 --> 00:18:51,100 We will meet back here in two weeks. 249 00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:55,540 We'll be doing the paranormal portion of our Ed Gein trio. 250 00:18:55,540 --> 00:18:59,540 Thank you so much for listening and for your support. 251 00:18:59,540 --> 00:19:01,900 We appreciate it so much. 252 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:04,420 Follow us on our socials. 253 00:19:04,420 --> 00:19:05,900 We appreciate you. 254 00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:08,340 And like Dawn said, follow our socials. 255 00:19:08,340 --> 00:19:10,220 Look out for our next episodes. 256 00:19:10,220 --> 00:19:13,380 We've got a lot of pretty cool stuff coming in. 257 00:19:13,380 --> 00:19:15,300 I'm excited about it. 258 00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:16,300 Thank you. 259 00:19:16,300 --> 00:19:17,300 Bye. 260 00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:18,300 Bye. 261 00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:25,940 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. 262 00:19:25,940 --> 00:19:29,300 Click on the lookout for our next episode and stay gruesome. 263 00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:33,300 [Music]