Ep42: True Crime: Aileen: Queen of the Serial Killers

Join Amy & Dawn as they take a deep dive into Netflix’s Aileen: Queen of the Serial Killers, unpacking the disturbing case of Aileen Wuornos and the questions it leaves behind

Transcript

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 [Music] 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome to Me, where we talk about movies and shows 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,800 that cover true crime, paranormal, and horror. 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,600 I am one of your hosts, Dawn. 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,400 I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,400 genre. 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,000 Especially those 80s classics. 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,720 A quick fun fact about me, I have a very extensive crystal collection. 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:37,720 Hello, I'm Amy. 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,280 I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,000 A few fun facts about me. 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,000 I'm an empath. 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,120 I collect old dolls and you know, I've never flown on an airplane. 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,440 Can you believe that? 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,920 Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are. 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:56,160 Talk Gruesome to Me. 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:02,320 Seven men were killed within a 12 months period. 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,840 All down dead in the woods. 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,280 As the cases began to progress, we'd see the headshot more. 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:22,400 The passion of the person who's committing these murders is increasing the rage. 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,400 The first murder that we knew about was Richard Mallory. 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,840 This is Mr. Mallory. 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,400 Found in December of '89. 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:32,400 Mr. Mallory. 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:33,400 Scar. 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:34,400 This car. 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:41,760 In every case, the victim's vehicle is found somewhere apart of the state. 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,720 Seeds were pulled forward. 29 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:51,320 Same description of the projectiles as the other victims. 30 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,720 All white and middle aged men. 31 00:01:53,720 --> 00:02:03,160 They're used rubbers and but blonde hair found at one of the crime scenes. 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:04,160 Hello. 33 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:12,600 Today, we are talking about one of the most infamous women in true crime history. 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,480 Eileen Warnos. 35 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:20,200 We watched Eileen Queen of the Serial Killers on Netflix. 36 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:27,680 I just want to say first, there were a couple of ways that we heard her name pronounced. 37 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,720 I think some people had said Eileen and some said Eileen. 38 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,360 I'm just going to use Eileen and stick with that. 39 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:42,880 I think that's right, but honestly, like I said, they used both in the documentary. 40 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:52,120 But she's often labeled America's first female serial killer, but that doesn't really explain 41 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:59,800 who she was, what she did, or how her story unfolded. 42 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:08,000 She's often reduced to headlines like female serial killer, like I said, or even a monster. 43 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:14,920 That's flow that story down and we are going to go over some of the reality that's far more 44 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:16,840 complex. 45 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:23,640 This case, it forces you to set with discomfort, not just about the murders himself, but about 46 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:30,640 trauma, mental illness, gender poverty, and how the justice system handles people who don't 47 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:34,520 fit neatly into their perfect little boxes. 48 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:41,960 Eileen Wuornos was executed in Florida in 2002, but decades later, people are still debating 49 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,320 on how to actually understand her. 50 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,040 And obviously we always say this, we're going to say it again. 51 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:54,080 We try to be as factual as we can and then a disclaimer. 52 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:59,800 This is a true crime episode, so there's probably going to be some graphic stuff that we 53 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,040 talk about. 54 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:06,720 Most definitely, so yeah, take that disclaimer and do it with it what you will. 55 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,420 When you look closely at her life from childhood execution, it becomes clear that this was 56 00:04:11,420 --> 00:04:14,040 in a story that began with these murders. 57 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:21,080 It began earlier years with neglect, abuse, and survival at any cost. 58 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,440 We'll also talk about how her story has been framed over the years, including insights 59 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:33,800 from this Netflix documentary that we watched, which uses recorded interviews to show Eileen's 60 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,080 own words near the end of her life. 61 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:43,840 And again, I want to warn you, this episode includes discussions of sexual assault, violence, 62 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:48,080 and execution, so listener discretion is advised. 63 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,800 All right, let's get into some basics. 64 00:04:51,800 --> 00:05:00,160 Eileen Carol Wuornos was born on February 29, 1956 in Rochester, Michigan. 65 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,520 Even her birth story is sort of marked by instability. 66 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,560 Her parents, they were teenagers. 67 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:15,080 Her father was actually later convicted of child sexual assault and he died by suicide 68 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,880 in prison. 69 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:24,080 Her mother abandoned Eileen and her brother when Eileen was still just an infant. 70 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,360 That's so sad. 71 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,280 They were raised by their grandparents in nearly every credible account. 72 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:35,360 That environment was abusive and Eileen later described being beaten, locked out of the 73 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,160 house and sadly sexually abused. 74 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:44,920 Some of her claims have been debated, but multiple family members and neighbors confirmed 75 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,600 the household was very violent and glitful. 76 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:53,400 And by the age of 11, just think about that. 77 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,920 You know, when we go through these, oh gosh, 11. 78 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,400 I mean, that's a baby, right? 79 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,520 It's just like, I mean, not a literal baby, but like it's a baby. 80 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:12,280 But by the age of 11, she was reportedly already engaging in sexual acts in exchange for 81 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:14,880 food or cigarettes. 82 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:23,040 And by 13, she was pregnant after being raped by a family friend and that pregnancy ended 83 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:24,520 in adoption. 84 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,800 And shortly after that, she was kicked out of the house. 85 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:33,040 Yeah, she was a child, homeless, traumatized, and alone. 86 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:39,240 And this is where her story starts to diverge from what society usually offers people in 87 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,560 crisis. 88 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:47,960 There was no safety net, no intervention, and she definitely did not have any long-term 89 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:48,960 support. 90 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:49,960 Nope. 91 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:55,880 And then throughout her teens and 20s, she drifted across the country. 92 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,440 She was hitchhiking. 93 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,000 She lived in cars. 94 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,520 She lived in forests and abandoned buildings. 95 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:08,840 And she survived primarily through sex work and panhandling. 96 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:12,760 And it's important to say this plainly. 97 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:18,720 Sex work for Ilam was not a choice rooted in opportunity, but it was survival. 98 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:26,800 She had no stable housing, no education, no support system, and untreated mental health 99 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,040 issues. 100 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:36,080 If you look at it that way, and her, it probably was hard for her to find a just a normal job. 101 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,680 So with that opportunity, she took it just to survive. 102 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:48,840 And that's fairly common with sex work, especially when we're talking about people who are 103 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,680 abused as they're growing up. 104 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:52,680 Right. 105 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:58,120 It's almost like if you are abused like that as a child, it's all you know. 106 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,120 Yeah. 107 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:00,680 We'll get into some of that later. 108 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,520 I want to talk a little more about that. 109 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:09,680 And she was arrested multiple times for things like theft and disorderly conduct. 110 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,920 She had some weapons charges, you know, her record. 111 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:22,840 Painted that same picture of instability as with the being homeless, but also someone constantly 112 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:30,680 reacting to crisis rather than being able to plan and look to the future. 113 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,320 There's also a pattern of violence against her. 114 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:38,880 She reported repeated sexual assaults, beatings, and threats from men she encountered on the 115 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:39,880 road. 116 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:45,800 Whether every claim can be verified or not, the pattern is consistent with what many 117 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,000 unhoused women experience. 118 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:55,800 And then in the late 1980s, Eileen met Tyria Moore at a gay bar that was in Daytona Beach 119 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,600 In Florida. 120 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,320 Tyria was younger, quieter. 121 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:07,600 She became sort of like the stable part of that relationship and the most stable relationship 122 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,360 that Eileen had had. 123 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,120 And for the first time, Eileen wasn't alone. 124 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,680 She formed an intense emotional attachment to Tyra. 125 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:22,040 She provided financial often through sex work and said Tyra as her anchor. 126 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:29,280 This relationship matters because it directly intersects with these crimes that were about 127 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,400 to get into Eileen wanted to support them both. 128 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:41,000 She was growing increasingly paranoid and angry toward men, especially these clients of 129 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,000 hers. 130 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,080 Now, here we go. 131 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,360 That's bringing up the murder, so we're getting ready to start with the first one. 132 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:56,400 In November 1989, and November 1990, so that's about a year, seven men were killed in Florida. 133 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:03,520 All of them were shot with a 22 caliber handgun and all had picked Eileen up while she was 134 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,280 hitchhiking. 135 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:11,120 And their bodies were found in remote areas often stripped of their personal belongings, 136 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:16,040 also in a lot of instances, and I don't know, maybe it was all of them. 137 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:22,000 Their cars were found in different places than their belongings, so that was sort of a 138 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,400 pattern as well. 139 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:29,720 Eileen claimed, "Every killing that she did was self-defense." 140 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,640 She said that these men had assaulted or attempted to assault her. 141 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,440 The first victim, his name was Richard Mallory. 142 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,760 Mallory, I think, actually, he... 143 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,920 This makes me so mad. 144 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:52,240 Talking about it, again, we'll talk about this at the end when we discuss the actual documentary. 145 00:10:52,240 --> 00:11:00,800 But Richard Mallory had a documented history of sexual violence from what we saw in the 146 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,040 documentary. 147 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,280 They didn't care. 148 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,640 No, not one meant. 149 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:08,640 Not at all. 150 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:14,640 But as the murders continued, the evidence became harder to reconcile with self-defense. 151 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,920 Some victims were shot multiple times, some were shot in ways that suggested execution 152 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,560 style killings. 153 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:25,000 Their vehicles and belongings were stolen. 154 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:32,280 And prosecutors argued that Eileen used murder as a means of robbery. 155 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:37,240 So they thought that she was targeting these men who picked her up because they were vulnerable 156 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:42,280 and she wanted their belongings, so she murdered them. 157 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:43,280 Exactly. 158 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:48,520 That's where the case becomes morally and emotionally complicated. 159 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:55,840 Because even if some encounters began as consensual transactions, the power imbalance in risk 160 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,000 were always there. 161 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Yeah. 162 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:07,200 And then in January 1991, Eileen was arrested at the Last Resort, a biker bar. 163 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,800 It was in Florida. 164 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:17,560 This quickly turned their attention to Tyria who had agreed to cooperate in exchange for 165 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:19,320 immunity. 166 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:26,240 I want to say that the whole thing with Tyria, I mean, they found that hair, which is what 167 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,880 you heard in that clip. 168 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,080 It wasn't just her. 169 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,080 They had other forensic evidence to go off of as well. 170 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,960 These men were all killed and they found the same shells. 171 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,400 So there were other things. 172 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:47,920 It wasn't just Tyria, but she was kind of, gosh, I was going to say nail in the coffin, 173 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,400 but that seems not the right phrase to use in this instance. 174 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,920 But she was the main thing. 175 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,800 And it was just all out of her being scared. 176 00:12:58,800 --> 00:12:59,800 Right. 177 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:00,800 Yeah. 178 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,240 She just, who, what do you want me to know? 179 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:04,240 Yeah. 180 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,160 And listen, I get her reasoning. 181 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,160 She didn't do anything. 182 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,480 I want to get arrested too, because she didn't do anything wrong. 183 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:11,480 No, exactly. 184 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,120 That's what I'm saying, but that's what led her up. 185 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:19,320 I mean, if I'm assuming she truly loved Aileen and that, that's sad. 186 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:25,760 But what Tyria did was she recorded phone calls with Aileen at the direction of investigators. 187 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:31,560 And in those calls, Aileen confessed, believing that she was protecting Tyria from going to 188 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:37,120 jail, said that she would drop everything and do it right there just to protect her. 189 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:46,200 And that tells you that this person that we're talking about who killed seven men was capable 190 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,680 of unconditional love. 191 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:52,440 I mean, she, right, she said she did it. 192 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:58,360 And in the end, maybe not these phone calls, because she didn't know she was being recorded. 193 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:06,400 But in her initial confession, it was all about sparing her girlfriend because she loved 194 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:07,400 her. 195 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,120 That's exactly it. 196 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:17,920 But that betrayal obviously devastated Alene and it was what ended up sealing her fate. 197 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:24,000 Most definitely in Aileen's trials, they were fast, they were highly publicized and deeply 198 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,320 influenced by how she looked and behaved. 199 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:34,760 She was angry volatile and openly hostile in court on many occasions. 200 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:40,280 And you saw that in the documentary and there was even a part watching it where I was like, 201 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,520 oh my gosh, you can't act like that. 202 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,920 You know, you're in front of a jury. 203 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:53,560 You're trying to prove that you're not this person and then you're acting like that. 204 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,600 I'm sure part of that just goes back to mental illness. 205 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,400 Part of it goes back to reacting to abuse. 206 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,320 It's just all of it culminating in court, unfortunately. 207 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,680 Yeah, and then also think about it. 208 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,760 As hotheaded as she did get and with her mental illness, if she's hearing people up there 209 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,640 spout out lies, she's going to get mad. 210 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:15,640 Right. 211 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,840 I mean, I just don't feel like she would be the type of person that sits back and not say anything. 212 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,880 Yeah, I don't know. 213 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:29,440 She definitely didn't fit the image of, like a sympathetic defendant, especially not 214 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:37,680 a female one, society definitely has expectations about how women should present themselves 215 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,480 even when they're in court being accused of violent crimes. 216 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,480 Most definitely and her defense claims were rejected. 217 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,120 She was convicted and sentenced to death. 218 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:55,680 During her time on death row, her mental health, unfortunately, appeared to deteriorate and 219 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,360 she would make increasingly paranoid statements. 220 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,000 She was claiming that the guards were torturing her. 221 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:08,120 She was saying the system was conspiring against her, which I don't know. 222 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:13,720 She probably really did feel like the system was conspiring against her. 223 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,080 So, you know, that one, that's hard for me. 224 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:25,360 I'm sure she felt so alone that she lost her girlfriend because she was trying to protect 225 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,560 her. 226 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:35,280 Like you just said, listen to people in court saying probably lies, but also not saying 227 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:44,160 the full truth because how do you, when it's just you and a guy in a car, there's no one 228 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,360 else that knows the truth. 229 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:52,000 So I'm sure she did have deteriorating mental health. 230 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,000 Absolutely. 231 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,160 Okay, the lies that I was speaking about, they could have not even been true lies. 232 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,360 They could have been lies that she didn't believe herself. 233 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,240 But anything like that, you know what I'm saying, could start her up. 234 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,600 I mean, that automatically should tell you that she's not mentally stable or was not mentally 235 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:09,760 stable. 236 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,840 This is where the Netflix documentary becomes particularly unsettling. 237 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,880 In Queen of the serial killer, we hear Eileen in her own words. 238 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:25,400 Now she's sometimes lucid and sometimes she's very clearly unwell and not doing good at 239 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,520 all. 240 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:31,760 She eventually waved her appeals and kept saying that she wanted to die. 241 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:38,800 There were quite a few times when they showed her just giving up and saying she was done. 242 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:39,800 Yeah. 243 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:47,480 On October 9th, 2002, Eileen Wuornos was executed by lethal injection in Florida. 244 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,320 She was only 46 years old. 245 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,680 Her final statement was brief. 246 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:57,800 She didn't apologize and she didn't retract anything. 247 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:04,240 At least from what we saw in the documentary, when she described that night with Richard 248 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,880 Mallory, who might have said, why should she apologize or retract that? 249 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:10,880 You know what? 250 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:11,880 Agreed. 251 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:12,880 Okay. 252 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,080 So now how do we talk about Eileen Wuornos? 253 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:25,400 Do we refer to her as a murderer, as a victim, as someone felt long before she felt others? 254 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,560 There's so many...it's just complex. 255 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,880 Her whole story is just awful and sad. 256 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:40,800 It is complex and it forces us to confront uncomfortable things. 257 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:48,480 Some of it, how society treats traumatized women about mental illness within the justice 258 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:56,120 system about how easily complexity gets lost in headlines. 259 00:18:56,120 --> 00:19:00,920 Listen, this story blew up and you could see that in the documentary. 260 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:01,920 Absolutely. 261 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:07,040 And we're not going to skip over the fact that seven men lost their life. 262 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:12,720 That definitely matters, but I also think that the life that Eileen lived before this 263 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,840 violence ever started happening to her matters as well. 264 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,600 Ignoring either side of that means that we learn nothing about situations like this. 265 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,600 100%. 266 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:24,600 100%. 267 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,840 So, let's go ahead and let's talk about the Netflix documentary. 268 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:30,840 Okay. 269 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:31,840 Ha. 270 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:42,720 I forget the prosecutor's name. 271 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:51,320 The interviewer says to him, "Hey, I found this information very quickly." 272 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,120 It was about Richard Mallory and guess what? 273 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,400 He's a sexual predator and guess what? 274 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:04,120 He did and he was in a mental hospital and they warned, "Don't let him out because bad 275 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:05,520 things are going to happen." 276 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:06,520 Oh, man. 277 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:12,720 And that guy literally sat there and said, "I don't care. 278 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,960 It doesn't matter. 279 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,960 We got what we wanted." 280 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:23,040 If you could have seen my jaw and how far I think it dislocated, it was so far off my 281 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,040 face. 282 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:30,920 It was like, first of all, the fact you just said that on camera is so wackadoodle-doo. 283 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:37,360 How is that not pertinent information to this case when she is telling you, "There's no 284 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,960 way," Eileen Wuornnos knew that information about that guy. 285 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,960 There's no way. 286 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:50,560 So for her to say that that's what happened and then come to find out this was that guy's 287 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,520 past. 288 00:20:53,520 --> 00:21:01,760 I was so mad for her that that guy reacted the way he did and was like, "Don't care." 289 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,440 It should open your eyes to a whole other way to look at the case. 290 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:12,240 He's obviously very capable of everything that she said he did to her. 291 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,240 Yeah, I just pisses me off. 292 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,720 I'm right with you. 293 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:22,120 And the thing is, they really only talked about that case of the seven. 294 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,520 I'm not sure about the other six guys. 295 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,800 I don't know if any of them had past criminal records. 296 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,440 I don't know. 297 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:35,360 But the fact that they found this guy's past and he just dismissed it. 298 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,240 He gave zero fucks. 299 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,640 He was just like, whatever she got, what she deserved. 300 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,520 Oh, I was so mad. 301 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,440 It's almost like he labeled her as trash before even started. 302 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,440 Yeah. 303 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:57,380 Even not someone getting arrested for murder, I'm sure that's how a lot of people see sex 304 00:21:57,380 --> 00:22:01,280 workers, which is unfortunate. 305 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:07,800 I'm sure from the get-go, that guy was just already-- 306 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:08,800 A dick. 307 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:09,800 Didn't care. 308 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:10,800 Yeah. 309 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,000 And was like, "Don't care about her or her life." 310 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,000 Right. 311 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Agreed. 312 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:23,760 And then it makes me think this whole thing at a couple of points, it made me think of the 313 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,360 Menendez episode that we covered. 314 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:33,840 And just thinking about the topic of past abuse and how it affects kids, especially when 315 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:40,840 it goes unaddressed and untreated and people get angrier as time goes on. 316 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:49,960 It's obviously not the same because there's the parents, but it is similar. 317 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,640 I mean, let's just be real. 318 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,160 Just take all of that out to account the things that happen. 319 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:08,320 How many times can you allow individuals to rape or touch or to do anything like that 320 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:16,720 to your personal body that you say no without eventually snapping? 321 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,040 There's only so much a person can take, only so much. 322 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,440 Yeah, and I don't care if you're a sex worker. 323 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:25,440 No. 324 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,440 You say no. 325 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,440 It's no. 326 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:28,440 You say no. 327 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,440 Anybody. 328 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,440 I don't care. 329 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,440 It doesn't matter. 330 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:37,600 What situation you have yourself in, nobody deserves to be touched in a way that is deemed 331 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,640 inappropriate and they do not want. 332 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:40,640 I don't care. 333 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:48,720 And I'm also going to go ahead and talk about the fact that she had been hitchhiking and was 334 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:55,040 a prostitute for how long, how many years of her life and didn't start killing until later? 335 00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,080 And then the first person that she killed has ties too, oh my goodness. 336 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,760 They were convicted of that before. 337 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,760 So I guess they can do that. 338 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,360 I just, I, yeah. 339 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,360 I told you I wasn't going to do this. 340 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:17,240 The people, well listen, they talk to people who knew her well, even Tyria, but they all said 341 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,680 that she was a super carrying and loving person. 342 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,680 Yeah. 343 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:28,920 The one thing that hit me really big was when she said at that point she had the gun and 344 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,640 it just all become about trying to make it home safe to Tyra. 345 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:34,640 Yeah. 346 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:35,640 I don't know. 347 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,240 I don't, because it was her first girlfriend that gave her the gun, correct? 348 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,560 Her first bless her heart, her first experience with lesbianism. 349 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,440 I'm like, remember when she said that. 350 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,440 God love her. 351 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,920 But that was, I was like, all, but the way she said it just sounded less, I don't know, it 352 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:53,920 just sounded so. 353 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,560 Oh, you just tell that she had found herself. 354 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,320 You know what I'm saying with that first girlfriend. 355 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:06,160 I don't know, I don't want to be a serial killer sympathizer. 356 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,160 No. 357 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,160 No. 358 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:15,000 I also feel like if Richard Mallory, did what he did, he deserved what he got. 359 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,160 So I'm just going to say it out loud. 360 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:22,560 And I'm also not sitting here saying that they should have just let her out and not convicted 361 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,360 her for what she did. 362 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:28,680 She murdered those men and that, like I said, that does matter. 363 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:36,680 But I just wish that maybe other people would look at the full story of her upbringing and 364 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,400 what led up to this. 365 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:44,280 And as you go ahead and, with all rights, call her guilty, just kind of take a little bit 366 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,400 of sympathy and understand while you do so. 367 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:48,400 That's all. 368 00:25:48,400 --> 00:26:01,480 I wonder how she would have felt if people had believed her and they had gotten that information 369 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,240 about Richard Mallory and they had done that trial again. 370 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:13,240 Or like I wonder, I wonder how that would have changed her behavior or her mind because 371 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,520 I wonder if then she wouldn't have wanted to die. 372 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:17,520 I don't know. 373 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,600 I think that maybe it might have done a little bit of difference and I think she wouldn't 374 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,880 have showed herself in such a crazy light maybe. 375 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,960 I mean, there's no doubt where she was headed. 376 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,440 She was headed to set in prison, but maybe it could have changed what side of the wall she 377 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,440 sat on. 378 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:41,920 I mean, maybe she had just, from a young age, her entire life had so much abuse. 379 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,200 Maybe it didn't even have anything to do with the murders. 380 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,200 Maybe she was just done. 381 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,800 I mean, like I said, a person can only take so much. 382 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:50,800 Exactly. 383 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:51,800 Yeah. 384 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,640 Obviously, we'll never know. 385 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:59,040 These are just questions that I have running through my brain. 386 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:08,280 I feel like, again, I don't want to be a sympathizer, but at the same time, don't rape women. 387 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,280 No. 388 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,920 And like, you are going to get tired of me and tell me to go on somewhere with my, um, looking 389 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,720 at both sides of these individuals, but you've got to. 390 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:25,280 They're still guilty, of course, but you've also got to look at what took them to that, that 391 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,520 part and that time in their life, what calls them to do with they did because that's important 392 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,520 too. 393 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,600 It doesn't, it doesn't change the outcome. 394 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,600 They're guilty. 395 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,720 They deserve what they get, but I don't know. 396 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:42,000 I just think that things from people's past just aren't ever looked at when it comes to, 397 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,480 well, why were they like that? 398 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,840 Well, how would you have felt growing up like that? 399 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:46,840 I don't know. 400 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:47,840 That's just my thinking. 401 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,600 I mean, I've heard her call to vigilante before. 402 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,640 I don't know if she was or not. 403 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:59,200 I mean, she says all seven of these guys did terrible things and listen. 404 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,360 There were a ton of other guys that she. 405 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:08,160 How many did she have transactions with in between those? 406 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:09,160 Exactly. 407 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,440 And there was that one guy in the documentary who said he named off all the things he had 408 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,880 a really expensive watch. 409 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:22,800 He had $3,500 cash on him, all this stuff, and she didn't do anything to him. 410 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:28,440 So, that leads me to think there was something to happen with those seven guys and I believe 411 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,440 her. 412 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,280 I believe her too. 413 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,640 I do, always have. 414 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,080 That's one reason why I was like, can we please do this one? 415 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,960 Because yeah, I mean, she murdered, she did. 416 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:45,680 She murdered seven men, but I believe her that she wouldn't have done it if they weren't 417 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,440 threatening her or trying to hurt, kill, rape, whatever. 418 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,800 I really don't think she would have. 419 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,440 But I guess we both agreed on the Richard Mallory deal. 420 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:56,440 We both agreed 100%. 421 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,280 Do you want to rate it? 422 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,280 Because we have to do ADHD rating. 423 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,280 Oh yeah. 424 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,360 And then we have to give a rating. 425 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,920 Let me just say it one more time. 426 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,360 It was called the Eileen Queen of the Serial Killers and it's on Netflix. 427 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:18,240 My regular rating is, I feel like it could have had more information. 428 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,560 So I'm going to go seven out of ten, especially I wish that they had given more information 429 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,800 on the other six men. 430 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:26,800 But it was good. 431 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:33,000 And I hadn't heard a lot of information on her story for years, so it was a really good 432 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,160 refresher. 433 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,960 My ADHD, true crime to me is really interesting. 434 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:44,720 So it holds my attention more than some other things. 435 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,720 So my ADHD rating would probably be an eight. 436 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,320 I didn't like, dink around on my phone. 437 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:52,800 I was paying attention. 438 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:53,800 Yeah. 439 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,360 I agree with you. 440 00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:01,640 The only real problem that I had was just, they talked so in depth about everything else, 441 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,840 but left the other six men out. 442 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,320 So I agree with you. 443 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:06,600 One hundred percent on that one. 444 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,280 And I probably would give it a seven, maybe seven and a half. 445 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,160 I'm always one of them that can't decide. 446 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,600 But yes, seven, seven and a half, I agree there could have been, like I said, you took all 447 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,080 that time to add in all this information. 448 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,320 You could have fit that in there too. 449 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,400 I would have watched a little bit longer or even a part two, most definitely. 450 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,000 So yeah, that would be my first part on that. 451 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,040 I have actually watched this twice. 452 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,480 First time I watched it all the way through for my ADHD meter. 453 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,600 I'm going to give it a good solid eight and a half. 454 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:41,920 The second time I did fall asleep, but I was struggling with a paranormal hungover. 455 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,360 So I was definitely hungover. 456 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,640 Had to hangover, man. 457 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,520 But yeah, it was definitely good. 458 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:55,080 I would highly recommend it, especially if you need a refresher or you maybe don't know 459 00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:00,160 a lot about this story because it's now over 30 years old. 460 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,840 We are almost out of our Zoom time. 461 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:03,840 Oh no. 462 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,960 So I know we only have a minute left. 463 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,840 I guess we will see you back or meet back here in two weeks. 464 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,520 And it's going to be a fun one. 465 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,920 Yeah, we're just going to, we're going to chat. 466 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,120 It's going to be fun. 467 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,160 Just do a mellow fun. 468 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,720 God will probably be all over the place, but you know how we do it. 469 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,440 It's going to be hard to fit in 45 minutes or 40, which is it? 470 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:29,440 I know. 471 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,440 Yeah, it's going to be 40. 472 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:31,440 I think it's 40. 473 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,440 Yeah, it's going to be hard. 474 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,760 Oh, and yeah, so Amy saying, I canceled my Zoom pro plan. 475 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,080 So now we're just on our regular plan, which is the free one. 476 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,880 And we only got a 40 minute video call. 477 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:44,880 So fun. 478 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:51,960 No, that's why some of our episodes have been shorter than they have been before. 479 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,400 We try to get a lot information in the short span of time. 480 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:56,400 Yeah. 481 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:57,400 Well, thanks for listening. 482 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,800 Yeah, and now you understand our madness a little bit more. 483 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:01,800 Yeah. 484 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:02,800 Correct. 485 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:03,800 All right. 486 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,960 Well, thanks everyone. 487 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,560 We will talk to you in two weeks. 488 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:09,560 See you then. 489 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:10,560 Bye. 490 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:19,400 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. 491 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,920 Keep on the lookout for our next episode and stay gruesome. 492 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,920 [Music]