Ep45: Minisode: What Happened After the Episode, Cases Revisited

Join Amy & Dawn as they revisit some of the cases they’ve previously covered and break down the latest updates on where those cases stand today

Transcript

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,680 [Music] 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome to Me, where we talk about movies and shows that cover true crime, paranormal and horror. 3 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:27,920 I am one of your hosts, Dawn. I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror genre, 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:35,360 especially those 80s classics. A quick fun fact about me? I have a very extensive crystal collection. 5 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:43,920 Hello, I'm Amy. I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. A few fun facts about me. 6 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:50,240 I'm an empath, I collect old dolls and you know, I've never flown on an airplane. Can you believe that? 7 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:57,680 Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are. Talk Gruesome to Me. 8 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:03,840 Welcome in this week. We've decided that we're going to go ahead and do a little update episode. 9 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:10,000 Several of the previous cases that we have covered have had a little bit of movement on them. 10 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,680 So what we're going to do is first off, I'm going to give you a disclaimer. 11 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:22,240 These episodes were graphic and we're going to be talking about some pretty horrific true crime information. 12 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:29,680 Just be prepared if you have little ears listening. Maybe you want to reconsider and listen at a different time 13 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,000 because some of these crimes are unspeakable. 14 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:41,760 The three episodes that we're going to be covering today will be the Return to Nature episode. 15 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:49,200 That one was one that we did that ended up being two parts and those both released in April 25, 16 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:56,800 2025. The Skeleton Brothers case in Michigan. That one released in June 2025. 17 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:04,640 And then super recent and a keptner, we just released that one a month ago in December 25. 18 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:12,960 For the Return to Nature episode, those were with Christina Page. We released two parts and that was in 19 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:21,520 April of 2025. That case, it definitely hit a nerve with both of us and it started shaping the way 20 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:27,840 we had been recording more true crime episodes. I'm going to be honest with you, that case really 21 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:36,800 spoke to us and it made us realize what we want to use this podcast to do. We want to use our voices 22 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:43,360 to try to help more victims and obviously we do recommend you going back and listening to those 23 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:51,680 episodes because they are some incredibly impactful stories. I mean, it like I said, they just 24 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:57,680 set with you. Last week we spoke with Christina and some of the other families that were affected by this. 25 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:05,120 Because we wanted to be sure that we had the facts straight and the updates that we were given 26 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:14,160 today were truthful. Christina's episode covered her case and her case was involving her son, David. 27 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:24,720 There were hundreds. Who knows how many victims that were improperly handled and stored. That's 28 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:33,440 putting it mildly. Very mildly. Yeah, it was bad. These bodies decomposed for four years. 29 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:42,720 It was a funeral home in Colorado and since that airing that we did on those two episodes in April, 30 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:50,640 we do have some updates that we want to fill you in on. The two owners of Return to Nature are 31 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:57,040 John and Carie Hallford. Now the updates that we're giving will be referring to those two people. 32 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:07,440 The first update is divorce in August 25 Carie filed to divorce John and she wants her made a name 33 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:14,080 restored. I mean, personally, I feel like she should have to be stuck with that name and let this 34 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:22,960 follow her forever. Yeah, I agree with you on that one. But the first thing to know is there are 35 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:31,840 separate state and federal charges for both of them. Some of the updates are a little confusing, 36 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:40,480 but we're going to try to specify in June 2025, John was sentenced to 20 years in federal prison. 37 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:47,280 Let me say that right after pleading guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Now that's related 38 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:54,000 to misuse of funds and fraudulent funeral services. This was separate from the state charge 39 00:04:54,000 --> 00:05:03,600 is relating to the body abuse and mishandling. Now for the state charges in August 2025, his plea 40 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:11,280 deal in the criminal case related to the abuse of corpses and other local charges was rejected 41 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:19,120 by the judge and after families objected and testified, they offered a 20-year sentence and said, 42 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:26,480 "That's just, no, it's too light and I agree with them." The judge's rejection was described as rare. 43 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:32,640 You don't really hear of that, but John then withdrew his guilty plea and reverted to a 44 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:40,960 non-guilty plea. A trial date was set for February 9th in that 2026 and that could last for a month or 45 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:50,800 longer as prosecutors prepare a dozen of charges and that's way beyond the abuse. In December 2025, 46 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:57,360 a revised state plea agreement was accepted by a Colorado judge and that was overturning the 47 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:03,840 earlier rejection and objections from families. Now under this agreement, John Hallford faced 48 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:10,720 a sentence of 30 years on state charges and that was to be served concurrently and that would also 49 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:16,800 go along with his federal sentence. The deal was accepted despite families calls for even 50 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:26,880 harsh your justice and they actually requested for 191 years, two years, eight months, one week, 51 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:35,280 and three days. That request is based on the body count from the funeral home. That's a huge 52 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:43,360 impactful number. Now John's state sentence is scheduled for February 6th and of course 2026 so that 53 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:52,960 again is coming right up. I feel like and the family clearly feel like his 30 to 50 years just isn't 54 00:06:52,960 --> 00:07:04,080 enough and that covers like one or two of the victims that they found in this horrific decomposing 55 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:11,440 state. Again, everyone should go back and listen to those. Do you know how old John is? I don't. He looks, 56 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:19,920 I mean, he looks 40s. I don't know. I mean, okay, if he's 40s, he still has plenty of time to get out 57 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:28,080 and start something else with that sentence. Exactly. Yeah. And both of these people are sketchy and 58 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:35,520 neither of them should be doing anything ever again except nothing but sitting in a jail cell forever. 59 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:46,400 Personal opinion. Oh, great. So let's cover Carie. Now in August 2025, she pled guilty in federal court 60 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:53,920 to conspiracy to commit wire fraud related to deceiving customers and defrauding the small business 61 00:07:53,920 --> 00:08:01,600 administration during this funeral home scheme. Federal prosecutors advised a recommended sentence for her 62 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:12,800 15 to 20 years with her federal sentencing scheduled originally for December 25. It's now March 26. 63 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:21,840 So that's coming up in a couple of months again, that's federal for state in November 2025. A Colorado 64 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:28,640 judge rejected Carie's plea deal in her state case on abuse of corpses and related charges. 65 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:35,200 Family members criticized a negotiated 15 to 20 years sentence as 66 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:41,600 too lenient, obviously, given the horror of the body stashed for years. 67 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:51,920 Fake ashes were given to families. There were some bodies buried in the wrong place. It like, 68 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:59,280 this goes on and on. Yeah, if I cremate my loved one, I definitely do not want to receive 69 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:05,360 screws back. What's wrong with these people? Yeah. And following that rejection, 70 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:14,320 Carie withdrew her guilty plea in state court as a state again and entered a not guilty plea. 71 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:24,080 Then in December 2025, a new plea agreement was accepted by the judge in which Carie faces 72 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:33,760 a state sentence of 25 to 35 years for the court's abuse charges. And like John's, this sentence 73 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:43,680 runs concurrently with the federal term. Her state sentencing is April 24, 2026. So she has federal 74 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:51,840 sentencing in March and then state sentencing in April. I feel like I'm sure you agree with this. 75 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:59,120 She's just as guilty. She knew those bodies were there. She was the one talking to the family 76 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:05,040 as an interfacing. She was the one actually getting the people to give them their money. 77 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:11,200 Damn straight. You know what? She was doing the networking. She was taking the money. She was 78 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,640 sending everything up. She knew what was going on. You can't tell me that she did not go in that area 79 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,360 where all of these people's loved ones were lying. You can't tell me that she didn't. No, they were 80 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:28,720 everywhere. Right. Both of them should be away for life. How can you even consider giving her 81 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:35,520 less when there's no way she didn't know? You know she did. Yeah, it's it's crazy. But we're 82 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:41,600 trying to say these families have been through so much and they're continuing to go through it. 83 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:48,800 They have the courts and the back and forth on this. It's from it's it's a lot. And from what we 84 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,680 took away from our meeting with some of these family members last week, they're not happy with 85 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:59,680 these plea deals and feel like the possible sentences are really light for crimes that were 86 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:05,920 committed against their family and friends. And again, I'm going to say it. I agree. Dawn agrees. We 87 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:13,360 agree. Absolutely. And before we wrap up this update of the three, I just want to talk about 88 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:21,120 something that Christina had mentioned. This isn’t, it's like a loose quote. This is these were her words, 89 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:29,760 but they're not exact. She had mentioned that this is the biggest victory, but also the most 90 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:37,920 unfortunate part of the story. And that's that each generation of these funeral home industry victims 91 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:44,480 has to push away their own feelings and their own healing so that the next generation of victims 92 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:51,520 doesn't have these same things happening. The victims needs have to be pushed aside. And that's so 93 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:58,800 that they can help these other future victims. And that's what they've done. They have a group called 94 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:06,160 Colorado Remembers and they meet every week to support each other. But they also in that meeting 95 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:12,720 talk about how they can make changes and support victims from new cases that do keep popping up. 96 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:21,440 We talked about a couple of them on this call last week. These cases continue to happen and they 97 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:30,080 continue to find new victims. And the return to nature victims have helped get mandate. It's created 98 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:37,040 that are being used for new cases and they are making a big difference, but you know, unfortunately 99 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:47,120 it's at a cost to themselves. I really give them props because with their cases, nobody knew how to 100 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:53,600 handle this. So now they're speaking up and and they're trying to get it handled correctly. 101 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:59,520 Instead of just laying down, they're standing up and I commend these ladies for what they're doing. 102 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:10,000 Because you're right. From the call, it felt like they don't want to, I guess like take credit if you 103 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:19,280 will for helping these other victims because at the end I said, you know, my biggest takeaway from this 104 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:25,120 is what you guys have done and you've made a difference and you've helped other people. 105 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:34,880 And then no one was like, yeah, thank you. You know, we definitely feel like this is what came out of 106 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:42,880 this. No, they were like, you know, we have to put our own things aside to help other people. So 107 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:52,560 it wasn't, I don't know. I just want them to know that what they've done is huge. The difference is 108 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:58,400 that they're making are enormous and I mean, we appreciate what they've done. 109 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:07,440 Absolutely. I mean, they could be solid, which is perfectly fine. I maybe I don't know how I would 110 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:14,400 react if I was in their situation, but these ladies have chosen not to and people are hearing you. 111 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:21,120 So you're bringing attention to individuals that might not ever think that this could happen. 112 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:29,280 That's a big thing. You're making people aware. And she says ladies because pretty much everyone that 113 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:36,240 spoke, they were female, but there are men on the call as well. Oh, there was. Wasn't there. Sorry. 114 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:43,280 They're, yes, sorry. I was, though you're good. I don't know why, but I guess because I don't remember 115 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,400 his name, but Christina's ex-husband. He didn't come out and speak as much. I think that's why I don't 116 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:53,120 remember him. And there was another one that popped. They didn't speak as much as the ladies. So yes, 117 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:59,200 I take that back. I'm so sorry for you ladies and gentlemen. You're doing an amazing thing. And thank you. 118 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:04,800 I just didn't want them to get left out because no, no, I know thank you for correct to me because 119 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:11,680 I really didn't know, but I didn't realize. So thank you. Yes. And I'm sorry. No, nothing to be 120 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:18,000 sorry about. They were, they were observers. And that's okay. Yeah, that's perfectly fine. That's, 121 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:24,160 yeah, you're there and you're doing the exact same thing this needs to be talked about because I never 122 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:32,960 thought that this could possibly happen. My mom's been cremated. And now like it's made me wish that 123 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:40,000 I still had the remains just to make sure, you know? There's a case in Toledo that I recently 124 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:47,280 read about too that I want to look into a little more. I feel like this happens. Unfortunately, 125 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:53,280 way, way more than we would ever think. I just don't understand why people, I mean, they take a 126 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:59,920 vantage of people every other way, but why at the end of their freaking life, it doesn't make sense 127 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:06,320 to me. It just doesn't. But also, I'm just going to say it because you know me, I just say it, 128 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:16,800 the mortuary and funeral industry already takes advantage of vulnerable people because of the 129 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:22,480 pricing. And it drives me crazy. And we've talked about funerals in the past and that I don't really 130 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:29,840 believe in them for multiple reasons that being one of them, you're already making money taking 131 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:36,640 advantage of vulnerable people by having them have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to 132 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:43,600 have a funeral. Do you really need to do this on top of it? It's just, anyway, I mean, you got a point. 133 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:54,240 I've never known too many poor funeral home or directors or exactly. Okay, so next we're on to 134 00:16:54,240 --> 00:17:01,520 the skeleton brothers. And that case was released on our podcast in June of 2025. I was super excited 135 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:07,840 to see it update back when I was up in Toledo with Dawn. I woke up in morning drinking my coffee. 136 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:13,600 Of course, it was the proper area. So I seen it going across the news and it just made me super 137 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:20,240 excited to text Dawn with the June 2025 episode that we did that kind of gives you the whole run 138 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:26,000 down. So we do highly recommend that you go back and listen to that one because it does like I say, 139 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:33,840 it covers the disappearance of the three young boys. And earlier in 2025, a judge formally declared 140 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:41,600 the Skelton brothers legally dead. That was, it's awful. Been missing for more than a decade and a half. 141 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:51,120 And that step, what it basically does is it just aids in legal and civil actions. So even though 142 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:58,960 the remains have never been found, you can press on further with things like murder charges, 143 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:08,880 which is such a long time coming for their mom. And where here we are. Yes. So in November 2025, 144 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:17,200 John Skelton, he's the father of Andrew, Alexander, and Tanner. Like she said, they've been missing 145 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:26,480 a very long time since November 2010. So long. So long. He was finally charged formally with murder 146 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:35,840 in the disappearance of those three boys. Prosecutors filed three counts of open murder and three counts 147 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:44,160 of tampering with evidence. This was in Michigan. His charges came just weeks before, oh my gosh, 148 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:49,440 remember, it was just weeks before he was scheduled to be released from prison for prior 149 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:58,240 charges on this case, which those charges were only unlawful imprisonment. He was about to get out. 150 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:05,040 And remember, this was what we was hoping would happen when we did in that last episode. So 151 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:11,840 I'm so glad that we're finally to this part. This is the first time murder charges have been 152 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:19,680 brought in this case, 15 years after the boys had vanished. That just seems it's insane. That's 153 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:26,240 such a long time, but here we are finally. Now Skelton has been serving a 15-year sentence for 154 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:34,400 unlawful imprisonment. That's related to where he failed to return his boys to their mother in 2010. 155 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:44,320 And a probable cause procedural hearing was held in late December 2025. His defense counsel requesting 156 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:55,200 extra time to review discovery. So a preliminary examination has been scheduled for May 2026. That way 157 00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:02,000 it does give them a little more time to prepare. Prosecutors face a challenging no body homicide 158 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:09,440 prosecution and that typically does require circumstantial and other supporting evidence to prove 159 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:15,360 the case beyond a reasonable doubt. I guess, yeah, pushing it to May that does give them more time. 160 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:22,000 And as we speak now, Skelton remains in the county jail with a very large bond. It's reported at 161 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:28,880 $60 million. That's of course going to continue while these proceedings are going on. 162 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:37,120 And following the murder charges, the Michigan State Police, this is like the whole reason 163 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:42,480 Amy and I wanted to even cover this case, the Michigan State Police reported that there was an 164 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:49,440 increase in tips from the public regarding the whereabouts of the boys. Investigators are actively 165 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:56,720 reviewing all of those leads to see if any provide insight into what happened to Andrew, Alexander, 166 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:04,800 and Tanner. Oh, I hope so. At price. So obviously, their bodies have never been found or recovered. So 167 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:11,680 like Amy said, you know, trying to try a case with no physical evidence being the bodies, 168 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:19,600 we'll see how that goes. That's is tough, but that's not impossible. They do have no and they do 169 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:27,520 have a lot that we covered, which everyone can go back. There's a lot of evidence and whatnot. So 170 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:34,960 I'm crossing my fingers for these three boys. Let me tell you. I definitely do not think it was a 171 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:43,200 bad idea to push out because it's not a problem that you don't have the body as long as you have 172 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:49,920 the evidence to back it up. So making sure that you have everything in order is I think a really 173 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:55,600 good call because you definitely don't want to drop the ball on this one. I have a little bit of a 174 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:02,240 it's a quick little quote. It's from the family. It was via ABC in Detroit. We always want to give 175 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,760 credit to things that we're playing. But so this is a quote. I don't know if the mom wrote it or 176 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:14,320 some other family member, but it's from the boys family on the mom's side. The family of the missing 177 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,520 boys released a statement regarding the latest update saying quote, "It has been 15 long years since 178 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:25,840 our three boys, Andrew, Alexander, and Tanner went missing. Throughout this time, our family has lived 179 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:31,760 with unimaginable pain, unanswered questions, and then comes to hope that one day we might have the 180 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:39,200 truth about what happens to them." Let us pray they get answers. That one, I'm extremely excited 181 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:46,240 where we are. So let's just keep positive prayers, thoughts, vibes, whatever it is that you believe in 182 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:53,280 going toward the skelton brothers and hopefully their dad's going to go away for a very long time. 183 00:22:53,280 --> 00:23:00,960 But the last case that we want to talk about today is very, very recent and that is Anna 184 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:07,680 Keppner's case. She's the 18 year old who was found murdered on the cruise ship and that was in late 185 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:15,520 2025. Now this is a very small update, but we thought it was worth mentioning. If you listen to that 186 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:23,280 episode, you'll recall her teenage step brother was listed in court documents as a suspect. Now all 187 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,720 that was reported at the time of that recording was that he had gone to live with other relatives. That 188 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:35,600 way the other kids in the safer house that they were safe at the house, they are actually younger than 189 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:43,280 him. And that is also while the FBI is working the case so that could disrupt a whole family as well. 190 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:50,000 I totally agree with that situation. Now here is the update. The step brother has been hospitalized 191 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:56,320 or was. The court  and family text messages indicate that he was admitted to medical 192 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:04,160 facility immediately after returning from the cruise ship and that during that time, he repeated that 193 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:10,320 he couldn't remember what happened. And after receiving medical care described in reports as 194 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:17,760 included psychiatric observation, he was released from the hospital and sent to live with relatives. 195 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:24,880 The hospitalization appears connected to his emotional and mental state after the incident 196 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:31,680 and not because of the disclosed physical injury. Specific medical details there, they 197 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:40,080 are not and haven't been and probably won't be publicly released. And he's still not been 198 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:45,440 formally charged with her murder. And sorry I'm having trouble talking today so just kind of bear 199 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:53,120 with me. Like Amy said, that wasn't a huge update, but you know it's important. Yeah, it's a change 200 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:59,520 at the time that we did that episode. We didn't know that he had been hospitalized. No, I had no clue. 201 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,960 Where's the relatives tying in? Is he these obviously there now because we thought that he was 202 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:14,240 there at the time and he was obviously hospitalized and having a hard time, which I mean I'm not going 203 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,120 to point fingers. We don't know what we don't know what all evidence is there yet, but 204 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:26,480 well and the part where it says he doesn't remember what happened. So is that could he have been 205 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:32,000 having an episode? There's some things that I want to say, but they're not very nice and I'll just 206 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,520 keep them to myself. So I just don't really know what to say right now except I just hope that 207 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:44,400 maybe he can remember. Yeah, I don't think that enough has come out yet for me to draw a conclusion. 208 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:52,000 Obviously, I leaned towards he did it just because I'm just being yeah circumstances. I think because 209 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:58,640 he's a minor and she I mean she's not technically a minor, but she was 18. I think they just aren't 210 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:06,240 releasing a lot. So I won't say for certain that I think he did it, but I definitely lean that way. 211 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:12,320 I think that all signs point to that he did it. And I don't want to say like talk 212 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:19,360 hard about him because he well he's not under is he under age at the time? Is he 18 now? I think he was 16. 213 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:24,560 No, this just happened. He was 16 I think. Okay, so he's never mind. He was going to be under super 214 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,760 vision till he was 19. So never mind. He's like 16 years old. I don't want to speak about the kid 215 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:37,440 in a ill way. I'm just saying that all signs are pointing toward him, but I'm not going to call him guilty 216 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:45,600 until he is proven in a court of law. I just hope that maybe he was able to gain some of his memory back, 217 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:51,520 get back on his medications, whatever he needed to level himself out. I just hope that for him 218 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:58,960 so that we can get on and get some answers. Right. And I don't mean me. I mean the family. Sorry. 219 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,720 I should have re-worded that better so that the rest of the family can have some answers. 220 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:09,760 And then just a general update. I know we've said this once or twice, but I just feel like this is 221 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:16,160 an episode that we would say it again. So Amy and I, like we talked about earlier after the 222 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:24,160 Christina Page interview, that just kind of made Amy and I really want to focus more, 223 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:32,480 especially the minisodes it's obviously on specifically missing persons, unsolved crimes, 224 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:40,960 and even more specific marginalized groups, which you've kind of seen that if you listen to all of our 225 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:47,840 episodes, that those minisodes have definitely been more focused on that kind of content. 226 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:54,160 Obviously we're going to throw a few in here and there that aren't true crime. Like the next 227 00:27:54,160 --> 00:28:01,520 mini soad we're doing isn't true crime. It's just requested. Yeah. Exactly. It got requested again. 228 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:08,720 And we never did the episode. So we're going to do that. But we, uh, now we have kind of found, 229 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:15,440 I think for both of us, what we really want to focus on for these minisods. We're going to 230 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:23,440 stay on that path. You'll see more of the true crime ones. And in between we'll sprinkle in some fun 231 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:30,160 ones or whatever else every once in a while. Sounds like a plan to me. Hopefully everyone 232 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,480 goes back, listens to those episodes that we talk about. If you haven't heard them already, 233 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:45,520 if you have, hopefully enjoyed some of these updates. And I don't know. I don't think any of the other 234 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:53,040 episodes that we did have any updates. I'm pretty sure no. As another day we didn't see any when 235 00:28:53,040 --> 00:29:00,400 you were looking. Yeah. There really weren't other ones. Although this ended up fitting perfectly into 236 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:07,440 our 40 minute zoom window. Anyways, so it all worked out. We'll be back later on for updates for sure. 237 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:15,920 Just that's all we have for right now. Yeah. Me back here in two weeks, we are finishing out 238 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:25,280 Eileen Wuornos, which oh, such a good topic. I'm glad you said let's do that because it's complex. 239 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:36,400 Yes. Man, I think I would really like to do a series on women. I would. They're, they're so, it's just 240 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:43,200 different. I don't know. She's like kind of the peak of female true crime though. So it was a good 241 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,640 starter. Oh, yeah. And if you, yeah, I mean it starts with abuse goes all the way down to murder. 242 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:55,760 And then again, yeah, it's, there’s definitely a lot to that case. So if that's something that your 243 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:03,440 interested in, check out that series or that trio, not series. Yeah. She's probably the most recognized 244 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:09,040 female serial killer. Yeah. Or murder or in general. We just got to figure out where to watch it. 245 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,640 I've seen it before, but I want to watch it again. Gosh, I've seen it several, several years ago. 246 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,000 But it's a good one. Amy's talking about Monster. We're going to talk about it. 247 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,360 Christina Ricci. We are just having trouble finding it streaming, which is always a 248 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:29,680 challenge doing this podcast on the movies. More than anything. It's always challenging because 249 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:36,320 streaming puts something up, then takes it down and puts something up. And so even trying to find 250 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:42,960 a search of where can I watch a movie isn't ever accurate because. Right. Then you go and it's not 251 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:50,560 there. So it's not easy. No, the internet's like go watch it on Netflix and then you go to Netflix and 252 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:56,560 it's not there. But I definitely want to see if we can find that because it's been. Oh, 253 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:02,880 what, and where did that come out? Maybe 2013. I was going to say like 15. So yeah, probably around 254 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,520 that time, it's been around that at times since I've watched it. It's been a good while. So yeah, 255 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:13,280 I'd love to watch it again. It's good. Like it's a really good movie. So I'm hoping we can figure 256 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:18,720 this out. I think we'll be able to maybe. I don't know. Even if I have to order a copy somewhere. 257 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:25,760 Yeah, that's next hopefully. I'm crossing my fingers that we can find it. Cross yours too. 258 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:33,520 Yeah, we want to cover that. So in two weeks, hopefully Monster. If not, it'll be something else 259 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:41,280 to wrap up Ilean Wuornos. But thanks for listening. Most definitely. Meet back here. Follow us on socials. 260 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,080 Yep. Keep up to date with us. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. 261 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:58,000 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. Keep on the lookout for our next episode and stay 262 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,560 gruesome. 263 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,560 [Music]